This was on one of the down days we still have about four weeks ago. Weird, the weeks since have been great. What is going on? This is not normal! Help!
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BH,

I do not cook. I do not clean. I do not bring money into this house. I mess up on paperwork/assignments you give to me. I do not have a high sex drive nor do I do not satisfy your sexual appetite. I do not have vast subjects to talk about. I am not an expert of anything. I’m not really sure why I was born, why I still exist.

As you can see, I have a lot of faults, a lot of weaknesses. This leads me to be very insecure. Then to add pain to the wounds that I create. I go and mess up the one thing I had going for me in this marriage. Commitment to you. I have broken my vow to you. You do not trust me, you have said “You fear me” and have even said in the past, “You wish I was dead.” Many days I feel you would be better off if I was. Can you for one second see how I must feel? See how painful this all is to me. The one need my loving, caring, patient husband has I cannot even fulfill. I cannot call myself your wife. I do not know what I am to you. I do not even know who I AM. IT is unfair to you to call me your wife. All I deserve is your children’s mom. That is all I truly am to you.

As I am typing, I am just balling…because the truth hurts. I am writing truth. You deserve so much more. I can NEVER give you what you NEED. I messed that up 3 years ago. Although you have tried, you have not been able to forgive me. It is so painful to talk about the past and be reminded of how bad of a person, let alone wife, I was. I am constantly being reminded, and it’s not just from the words you speak. It’s also from things you don’t say, from things I may read or hear. I will forever be reminded, at least it seems today. It’s almost like living hell here on earth.

There’s no escaping the pain, the hurt. Because I have been convicted so hard, because of the remorse that is in my heart, because of the will I feel deep inside to never hurt you again, it is so easy for me to see that I can be a good wife AND so hard for me to understand why you are still so hard on me, why you don’t see it. You can’t feel what is going on in my heart. Words that I say are never enough it seems. You want and need to feel what I feel and I am frustrated because I cant get you to feel what I feel. I say it but you want more, you need more. I have nothing left. It breaks my heart to let go of a man that I have so much love and respect for. It breaks my heart to see such an attractive, Godly, intelligent man, a great provider, a great father, a great friend get away. I had it all…and was just too dumb, just to blind to see it.

I was always waiting for the ax to fall and look what happened. I attracted that ax personally, the ax’s name was Steve. I allowed that ax to fall and boy it hit hard. That ax destroyed so much. Never saw that ax coming. The devil kept some sort of veil over my eyes (mind). I didn’t even see it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can’t understand why I didn’t see it. It was so big, so red, so noticeable. What was wrong with me?

I hate myself for being so blind, so wreckless, so out of control. I try to mask this hatred, I try to bury the pain. I deal with it like I have dealt with all my other problems, all my other pain in the past. The way I have been taught. To just burry my head in the sand. I get so angry when you remind me how much I hate myself for all that I have done to you. I am sorry that I have let you down. I am sorry for not being smarter, more reflective. I am sorry for not giving you what you need most.
Sorry that I can no longer call myself your wife. You deserve a true wife that can stay committed and never break that vow. Someone brighter, someone who knows herself, someone mature, someone caring and compassionate, someone honest. Someone you respect because she respects herself. None of the above, I have been to you. I can acknowledge this enough to allow you the freedom to explore and find your true soulmate. I want this for you no matter how much pain it will be in the future for me. I cannot just exist here in this home with no true meaning. I need to mature and learn to be independent. I need to find who I am. I know I can be a terrific wife my regret is that I cannot be your terrific wife. I could have but I blew it. This is my final letter to you, I love you with all my heart. I will be there for you as a friend, no matter what.

Sounds to me like someone had contact. :crosseyedcrazy:

Or a NEW OM. Either way this letter is foggy.

Start snooping!

HF,

Before I saw the replies from other posters, I got the same idea. Sounds like A time again. You MUST learn if this is true. Yes, SNOOP! Email, cell phone records, where she's spending her time, all of it.

If you cannot find anything, I am concerned that your W is seriously depressed. Seriously depressed. As in get her into IC ASAP. The closing words of her letter tell me she is either planning on leaving you, or planning on leaving altogether.

If it's not another A (or a relapse into the old one), she needs serious help.

If it IS an A, you need to get the facts and EXPOSE.
IF you are willing to go through this all over again.

Have you been meeting HER EN's since she ended her A a couple of years ago? Eliminated LB's? If not, regardless of what's going on, you'd better get right on that! (And if you don't know what I'm talking about, read the articles linked to the home page of this site, PRONTO.)

Right Here Waiting

And if it is an A see a lawyer and go straight to Plan D.

To All,

She has been accountable to all of her time. I checked cell phones and there was not a thing. She calls and lets me know her every step and the stories do match up.

Yes, we have been spending time together and yes, I have been trying to meet her EN's. She says that these needs have changed but I try to meet the old ones and the new.

I am not sure what is going on. She seems to feed off of me. She gets depressed if I do not seem completely happy. I told her I try my best but some days the reality of what happened is strong and it does affect my mood.

Not sure what to do.

HF

The bold part above is what raised my eyebrow.

After the weird, rambling "I, I, me, me" letter that stated she was done with the marriage, things have been great? It was very nearly a "I love you but I'm not in love with you" letter, which is always bad news.

I agree with the others. Start snooping, look for proof, and file for divorce if you find it.

Snoop.

NOW!

"I know I can be a terrific wife my regret is that I cannot be your terrific wife."

This statement is a big red flag to me. She knows she can be a terrific wife if she just changes partners.

I don't see the flags the rest see. I don't think there is a new OM.

She is telling you what she needs from you. Forgiveness.
She needs to be admired, and feels like she will never get that from you. She needs a clean slate. And I think the risk is that if she can't truly feel forgiven, that she will seek a fresh start...(ie, divorce and new life with new partner that doesn't see her as damaged...)

Have you gone to a Marriage Builders weekend?

She says those needs have changed. What have they changed TO? You will make yourself crazy trying to meet the old ones and some vague NEW ones you haven't even identified!

Ask her what she needs from you now.

As for her "feeding" off your moods, my FWH and I did that a LOT right after d-day. We were both so full of fear that we could never put things right. If I was down, he triggered. If he was down, I triggered. Fused like Siamese twins. It's OK, when you're not feeling your best, simply to say, "I'm having a hard time right now. It doesn't mean I've changed my mind about wanting to repair us. It's just feelings and I'm doing my best to handle them." Encourage her to do the same.

Openness & Honesty.

Hang in there. It's still really early for you both.

Right Here Waiting

Agree with Lexxxxy

I saw in it exactly what Lexxy saw.
Couldn't have said it better (nor as well, in fact) myself.

It's three years after the A but only a few months since the last D-day, right? That would explain why she needs to be healed now but you're not. Unfortunately her lack of openness and honesty has made healing slower and more painful than it needs to be.

I think right now she needs comfort and hope, and I think a MB weekend is a fantastic idea - maybe as a New Year's gift, signifying fresh starts?

And just to add....

You are 3 years past D-day. This should not be a frequent topic with you being unhappy with the responses you are receiving. It sounds to me like this has never been properly dealt with.

3 years past D-day, and your wife still has to show remorse? When is enough? She is still trying to JUSTIFY, because it seems like nothing has satisfied you. When do you again become equal in this relationship?

You need to create a NEW marriage. Fresh start, fresh commitment.

Personally, I wouldn't stay in a marriage where I felt like I had to pay penance for the rest of my life....

Your wife is SERIOUSLY depressed.

Hello,

Thanks for the feedback. We have not gone to MB weekend. We have gone to lots of couseling back in 2005-2006. However, there was not complete openess and honesty so I believe it was just a waste of money.

I have asked her what she needs. Yes, she does say forgiveness. I try but she has made it very difficult with the lies and such from 05-beginning of 08. How do you forgive someone that is not completely open and honest? I know she feels embarassed and guilty and has a tough time talking about it but I felt like that is what I needed. It was not comfortable for her but again I felt like she should have put MY needs before her uncomfortable feelings. That showed me she still has a level of selfishness within her that will probably never go away.

She gets very down if I feel down. She states she can not find a way within her to comfort me when dealing with this issue because she knows she is the CAUSE. She thinks she would be different if the CAUSE was something else besides her A.

I really do not feel like she has a new OM. I am very aware and she is not very good at deception. Also, she has been very open. She is not computer savy so there is not secret electronic communication. Her cell phone is on my plan so I see all calls and texts. I know where she is about 99% of the time AND she is spending the majority of her time with our children or at a children's activity. All of which can be confirmed through outside means. I am not naive so I know anything is possible but even considering the possibility, I don't see it currently. There has not been any change of personality. She never goes out at night. She is always where she says she is during the day(even when I show up unexpectedly).

As far as the letter, it was after a marriage retreat and she was feeling down because she sensed what I was feeling after the retreat. I was just down because all of the effects of adultery were laid out at the retreat and it talked about how selfish and destructive a person has to be to step outside of their marriage. The pastor talked about some of the so-called reasons for A's and we did not have those in our marriage. The affair was really just out of the blue. I was down and again, instead of her showing support or comfort, she seems to slip into a state of depression and despair.

HF

agree with Lexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy

Can you accept that she is no longer selfish and destructive?

Have you learned from MB what some of the causes might have been?

Personally I just look at your signature and think I can see some reasons right there. 3 young children, maybe a need to feel admired and attractive as a WOMAN not just a mom?

t/j for a moment....

Lex, you are on a roll with this one....very good insight....

I agree with Lexxy 1000%.....are there red flags??? YOu bet your bottom there is....red flags that she IS depressed and see's that she needs a change. And your forgiveness. EQUALITY....that is what she is desiring...and if you truly cannot find it in your heart to forgive her and give her peace, the most loving thing you can do is LET HER GO.....

not2fun

I also see a need for admiration in her letter. She starts off with such a long list of all the things she thinks she is not - not smart, not able to cook, not interesting, not this, not that.

Is Admiration one of her known ENs? If not... I think it should be. She betrays a very low self esteem in this letter. She may have had that before the A, and the guilt from the A may have compounded that, big time.

I agree with Lexxxy, though, that I don't necessarily see an OM in the picture. Just someone feeling very, very low...

HOW do you know how SHE was feeling this way??? Did you ask her????

not2fun

Why have the weeks SINCE been great??? What has made them great????

And YOu need to ask YOUR WIFE what is going on???


not2fun

I think this speaks volumes. Have you truly forgiven her?

OK,

The weeks were great afterwards because she stated they have been. I did ask why and she states, "You have been so upbeat. You are in a good mood". She stated that that makes her happy. She states she can not stand seeing me in a down or unhappy mood.

She stated that admiration was her emotional need but she does not rank it high now. She ranks family committment, domestic support, and recreational support. We have done the EN's a few times since the A and the needs keep changing. I explained to her that her need should stay the same at least in the short term. She made a statement like, I needed affection but I feel you do that now so that is not as high. I told her that I believe she is looking at it wrong. It is not the "gap" between what she needs and is receiving. It is simply the need(whether I/spouse is meeting that need or not). That is how I always complete my survey. In other words it is a Need, not a "I NEED MORE".

Yes, I believe what some have stated. I do believe this all comes down to forgiveness. She just said today that I needed to read a certain chapter in "Facing the Giants" regarding forgiveness. I am in the process of forgiving, but it has been difficult especially with all the lies, half-truths, speaking truth then taking it back and such. Earlier this year, she was suppose to be telling the entire truth of the affair from beginning to end because I told her that is what I needed because I had been told so much that I did not know what was true and madeup anymore. She went through a long story one night and a few days later when I had more questions, she stated that she just made some of it up because I wanted a story. She states she can't even remember most of it anymore. I think she has told so many lies, she may believe some of the lies and she probably can't sort through what she has already said and what she has not. Anyway, the details don't really matter because it is all bad BUT I just wanted her to be able to speak the entire truth just once.

She states that she has always had low self-esteem. She stated that is why she moved so fast when she met this new man. She did not feel high about herself and felt that if she did not do what he wanted which was a sexual encounter that he may not continue to be attracted to her and give her attention. She stated that she enjoyed the attention and did not want it to stop. She stated she wanted attention because she felt boxed in from the life of being a mom with 3 young children and a business owner. Also, she stated that it had been 12 years since she had been in close contact with a man that showed obvious interest in her and the flirting and stuff felt good at the time.

Anyway, I have encouraged her to go to IM to maybe explore some of the esteem issues and also the reasons for the A but again she feels like she is different now. She says she knows her weeknesses and will never ever put herself in a position close to what happened on the trips that she met the other 2 men. She stated that she is very aware and has a wall up because she does not trust men and she does not trust herself fully.

HF

Lexxxy,


I have not accepted that fully. I don't believe she is currently destructive. I do believe she still has some selfishness. I mean, she has lied and acted very uncomfortable when discussing the A for the last 3 years. However, I do get caught up with the idea that a person can be extremely destructive and now/today be a good person. How can a person change so severely? I know they can. That is just hard to accept logically.


Not really. Nothing like a lack of needs. She states that I was meeting her needs prior to the A. We have not been able to identify anything except that we need to protect ourselves always. She can not put herself in tempting positions whenever she is around the opposite sex. Also, she can not drink and be around the opposite sex. She just stated it was the first time she was around a man as an adult in a flirting situation and one thing quickly led to another. She thought it was innocent but it quickly turned serious and she could not stop it.


Yes, she did state that it felt good to be admired and to feel attractive to someone other than her husband. She stated that it felt different because the man was new and she just felt like the things that I did and said were because I was her husband and that was my job. She said it meant more because it came from a new person. We actually talked about that in counseling. If I told her that her hair looked nice or that she was sexy, I just received a lukewarm response. That is all stuff she has heard from me before and it was nothing new. I obviously was attracted to her and that was the reason I married her. When a new guy noticed, it made her feel good because she felt like the guy could have approached and said those comments to any woman in the party, but he choose her. I guess she thought I had no choice because of my commitment to her.

HF

OK,

Back in MC to try to completely recover. Hopefully, everything is on the table this time and we are talking about complete truth and trying to learn how to communicate and protect our marriage now and into the future.

HF

gee,

whats happened in the last 2 months?

Agree with Lexxxy & Pep

your wife is very depressed and there are red flags for that through the letter.

You appear not to have forgiven her really at all ... you talk about it but your actions don't seem to back that up in your wife's opinion & importantly you don't refute it..

I feel she is saying she can't live like this any more ... being the POS cheating wife in your eyes. She is thinking of leaving... maybe just emotionally ... but doesn't want to go. She is pleading.. begging ... for you to change and love her fully despite what she has done. In other words .. FORGIVENESS

It is not a simple matter of saying MC or IC for your wife because you are part of the issue and perhaps are the key here.

what you are building now is not a new marriage out of the ashes of the old... you only have bitterness... depression.. suppressed anger ... in other words ....... not much different then after her 'I get it day".... its just the time between then and now

You can have so much more ... and yes it hurts to build the new M ... the scar tissue aches and gives pain ... but so will the end of a M.

Is this fair to you the BS .. no... but its reality. You step up and FIGHT for the new M .. or you step back and let the old M fade away a little each and every day until there is only emptiness.

forgiveness is the key ... once you can work actively on forgiving sincerely her self esteem issues can be worked on and help obtained ... but now its like ... why bother I'm just a POS.... you keep telling me that every day so it must be true.... and even if you don't mean it that way its what she perceives.

Recovery is not easy .. it freakin hurts for a long time. But the love and devotion that can come from it is quite amazing.
So are you up for it????

In my opinion, just super depressed and overly repentant. DO NOT LET HER GO...She is struggling w/ the biggest mistake of her life. She feels she is not worthy of your love because of her Adultery. While she is correct, if you love her though, show her its ok and you'll love her forever. I would bet 20 Kruggerands she is not in an A, she is completely DEFOGGING which is ALWAYS followed my massive depression...DUDE

I agree w/ Lexxy, PB and Dude that she needs forgiveness, support and some admiration. I'd take it a step further, she's off balance, is there a chance she's suicidal (honestly?). Does it run in her family? Just consider it for your kids and do take the steps necessary to heal. Glad you're writing about it and seem to want to her her and you.

Best wishes,
No Way

Hopeful,

Your signature strikes me. Why do you have all that in there after 3 years? Do you carry that in your head every day? Does your wife get that reminder every day?

You gotta let go if you want to recover. Your wife's letter screams remorse.

Listen to Lexxy here, she's spot on!

I agree with Lexxy, I did not get the feeling of another OM. It almost sounds like she is clinically depressed. She can't forgive herself. Maybe you are trying too hard that she still feels the guilt?
I think a marital weekend is a good idea also.

Hope_Full,

Your WW sounds depressed. Is she taking any meds for this? I see more self destruction on the horizon. Keep an eye on her and ask for help if you believe she is getting suicidal.

After reading her threads, I don't have much advice to give because the W is still wayward in her thinking and doesn't own her stuff. I read excuse after excuse. The lying and excuses have gone on for too long. I hope you make some head way in MC.

Hope Full,

As a BW reading through your wife's letter I came to the same conclusion as Lexxy and PB. More than that, I recognized glimpses of my own FWH in that letter. We will be four years post d-day in a couple of months. Do I think he is completely over OW, without a doubt. Is there any C, only through attorney's and I am fully aware. Is FWH remorseful, absolutely, the pain is pouring out of his eyes every time something stressful occurs. We recently had an incident with our DS 11 finding some internet sites that were not appropriate. Being the well trained BS, I found the sites the DS had been too. My first question was to ask FWH if he had been there (not that he ever had) his answer was no, then I had to ask DS 20 (who wouldn't go there because GF would kill him and he could do it on his laptop, not on my computer), therefore DS 11 was positioned to confess. The point being. FWH was sent back into the guilt, that even though this is something we would have dealt with anyway, he doesn't want me going through any more disappointments related to sex and the males in my home. His own guilt and remorse overwhelm him.

Am I failing him? Maybe, because I have yet to reach a point, despite him doing everything right to rebuild our M (and I am trusting him, but with that Dr. Harley notation in the back of my mind) and still loving him, to feel "In love again" like I was on d-day. To be willing to say yes if he wanted me to renew our vows, he hasn't asked (alluded to it early in recovery) because I still don't know if I could do that. These are my faults and shortcomings. I am still too fearful, still too hurt. I do not want him suffering, I do not want to continue to suffer. But I see the on going guilt and pain for him that I read in your FWW's letter to you. We have to find a way to heal ourselves so that we can help them heal. I believe we can only truly heal together. But it is an extremely painful road. (We also fed off of each others bad days, they are farther apart and much fewer now. But talking about what has us down instead of letting the other one think up their own reasons for our down days is important).

Sorry this was so long, not meant to T/J but that we must find a way for ourselves and our BS's to be able to forgive them and fall in love again. They can not and we cannot go on indefinitely hurting and not healing and forgiving.

Fled