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Originally Posted by Hope_Full
Weird, the weeks since have been great. What is going on? This is not normal! Help!
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Why have the weeks SINCE been great??? What has made them great????

And YOu need to ask YOUR WIFE what is going on???


not2fun

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Although you have tried, you have not been able to forgive me. It is so painful to talk about the past and be reminded of how bad of a person, let alone wife, I was. I am constantly being reminded, and it’s not just from the words you speak. It’s also from things you don’t say, from things I may read or hear. I will forever be reminded, at least it seems today.

I think this speaks volumes. Have you truly forgiven her?


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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OK,

The weeks were great afterwards because she stated they have been. I did ask why and she states, "You have been so upbeat. You are in a good mood". She stated that that makes her happy. She states she can not stand seeing me in a down or unhappy mood.

She stated that admiration was her emotional need but she does not rank it high now. She ranks family committment, domestic support, and recreational support. We have done the EN's a few times since the A and the needs keep changing. I explained to her that her need should stay the same at least in the short term. She made a statement like, I needed affection but I feel you do that now so that is not as high. I told her that I believe she is looking at it wrong. It is not the "gap" between what she needs and is receiving. It is simply the need(whether I/spouse is meeting that need or not). That is how I always complete my survey. In other words it is a Need, not a "I NEED MORE".

Yes, I believe what some have stated. I do believe this all comes down to forgiveness. She just said today that I needed to read a certain chapter in "Facing the Giants" regarding forgiveness. I am in the process of forgiving, but it has been difficult especially with all the lies, half-truths, speaking truth then taking it back and such. Earlier this year, she was suppose to be telling the entire truth of the affair from beginning to end because I told her that is what I needed because I had been told so much that I did not know what was true and madeup anymore. She went through a long story one night and a few days later when I had more questions, she stated that she just made some of it up because I wanted a story. She states she can't even remember most of it anymore. I think she has told so many lies, she may believe some of the lies and she probably can't sort through what she has already said and what she has not. Anyway, the details don't really matter because it is all bad BUT I just wanted her to be able to speak the entire truth just once.

She states that she has always had low self-esteem. She stated that is why she moved so fast when she met this new man. She did not feel high about herself and felt that if she did not do what he wanted which was a sexual encounter that he may not continue to be attracted to her and give her attention. She stated that she enjoyed the attention and did not want it to stop. She stated she wanted attention because she felt boxed in from the life of being a mom with 3 young children and a business owner. Also, she stated that it had been 12 years since she had been in close contact with a man that showed obvious interest in her and the flirting and stuff felt good at the time.

Anyway, I have encouraged her to go to IM to maybe explore some of the esteem issues and also the reasons for the A but again she feels like she is different now. She says she knows her weeknesses and will never ever put herself in a position close to what happened on the trips that she met the other 2 men. She stated that she is very aware and has a wall up because she does not trust men and she does not trust herself fully.

HF


Hope_full

Me - BS - 35
Her - FWW - 35
3 children
12 year marriage
Affairs were during 2005
OM#1 Met/Kissed-2/05, EA 2/05-5/05
OM#2 First Night Stand 5/05,Kissing 7/05, EA 05/05-12/05
Emotional DD w both OM's - 7/05
Physical DD - 7/06(Intial) - 5/07 (Details)
NC OM#1 5/2005
NC OM#2 12/2005
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Lexxxy,

Quote
Can you accept that she is no longer selfish and destructive?

I have not accepted that fully. I don't believe she is currently destructive. I do believe she still has some selfishness. I mean, she has lied and acted very uncomfortable when discussing the A for the last 3 years. However, I do get caught up with the idea that a person can be extremely destructive and now/today be a good person. How can a person change so severely? I know they can. That is just hard to accept logically.

Quote
Have you learned from MB what some of the causes might have been?

Not really. Nothing like a lack of needs. She states that I was meeting her needs prior to the A. We have not been able to identify anything except that we need to protect ourselves always. She can not put herself in tempting positions whenever she is around the opposite sex. Also, she can not drink and be around the opposite sex. She just stated it was the first time she was around a man as an adult in a flirting situation and one thing quickly led to another. She thought it was innocent but it quickly turned serious and she could not stop it.


Yes, she did state that it felt good to be admired and to feel attractive to someone other than her husband. She stated that it felt different because the man was new and she just felt like the things that I did and said were because I was her husband and that was my job. She said it meant more because it came from a new person. We actually talked about that in counseling. If I told her that her hair looked nice or that she was sexy, I just received a lukewarm response. That is all stuff she has heard from me before and it was nothing new. I obviously was attracted to her and that was the reason I married her. When a new guy noticed, it made her feel good because she felt like the guy could have approached and said those comments to any woman in the party, but he choose her. I guess she thought I had no choice because of my commitment to her.

HF



Hope_full

Me - BS - 35
Her - FWW - 35
3 children
12 year marriage
Affairs were during 2005
OM#1 Met/Kissed-2/05, EA 2/05-5/05
OM#2 First Night Stand 5/05,Kissing 7/05, EA 05/05-12/05
Emotional DD w both OM's - 7/05
Physical DD - 7/06(Intial) - 5/07 (Details)
NC OM#1 5/2005
NC OM#2 12/2005
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OK,

Back in MC to try to completely recover. Hopefully, everything is on the table this time and we are talking about complete truth and trying to learn how to communicate and protect our marriage now and into the future.

HF


Hope_full

Me - BS - 35
Her - FWW - 35
3 children
12 year marriage
Affairs were during 2005
OM#1 Met/Kissed-2/05, EA 2/05-5/05
OM#2 First Night Stand 5/05,Kissing 7/05, EA 05/05-12/05
Emotional DD w both OM's - 7/05
Physical DD - 7/06(Intial) - 5/07 (Details)
NC OM#1 5/2005
NC OM#2 12/2005
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Originally Posted by Hope_Full
OK,

Back in MC to try to completely recover. Hopefully, everything is on the table this time and we are talking about complete truth and trying to learn how to communicate and protect our marriage now and into the future.

HF

gee,

whats happened in the last 2 months?

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Agree with Lexxxy & Pep

your wife is very depressed and there are red flags for that through the letter.

You appear not to have forgiven her really at all ... you talk about it but your actions don't seem to back that up in your wife's opinion & importantly you don't refute it..

I feel she is saying she can't live like this any more ... being the POS cheating wife in your eyes. She is thinking of leaving... maybe just emotionally ... but doesn't want to go. She is pleading.. begging ... for you to change and love her fully despite what she has done. In other words .. FORGIVENESS

It is not a simple matter of saying MC or IC for your wife because you are part of the issue and perhaps are the key here.

what you are building now is not a new marriage out of the ashes of the old... you only have bitterness... depression.. suppressed anger ... in other words ....... not much different then after her 'I get it day".... its just the time between then and now

You can have so much more ... and yes it hurts to build the new M ... the scar tissue aches and gives pain ... but so will the end of a M.

Is this fair to you the BS .. no... but its reality. You step up and FIGHT for the new M .. or you step back and let the old M fade away a little each and every day until there is only emptiness.

forgiveness is the key ... once you can work actively on forgiving sincerely her self esteem issues can be worked on and help obtained ... but now its like ... why bother I'm just a POS.... you keep telling me that every day so it must be true.... and even if you don't mean it that way its what she perceives.

Recovery is not easy .. it freakin hurts for a long time. But the love and devotion that can come from it is quite amazing.
So are you up for it????




Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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In my opinion, just super depressed and overly repentant. DO NOT LET HER GO...She is struggling w/ the biggest mistake of her life. She feels she is not worthy of your love because of her Adultery. While she is correct, if you love her though, show her its ok and you'll love her forever. I would bet 20 Kruggerands she is not in an A, she is completely DEFOGGING which is ALWAYS followed my massive depression...DUDE

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I agree w/ Lexxy, PB and Dude that she needs forgiveness, support and some admiration. I'd take it a step further, she's off balance, is there a chance she's suicidal (honestly?). Does it run in her family? Just consider it for your kids and do take the steps necessary to heal. Glad you're writing about it and seem to want to her her and you.

Best wishes,
No Way


BS (me) 44
FWW 41
M 18 yrs
FWW in LTA, Dday Jan 2005
K - S15 & D12
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Hopeful,

Your signature strikes me. Why do you have all that in there after 3 years? Do you carry that in your head every day? Does your wife get that reminder every day?

You gotta let go if you want to recover. Your wife's letter screams remorse.

Listen to Lexxy here, she's spot on!

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I agree with Lexxy, I did not get the feeling of another OM. It almost sounds like she is clinically depressed. She can't forgive herself. Maybe you are trying too hard that she still feels the guilt?
I think a marital weekend is a good idea also.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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Hope_Full,

Your WW sounds depressed. Is she taking any meds for this? I see more self destruction on the horizon. Keep an eye on her and ask for help if you believe she is getting suicidal.

After reading her threads, I don't have much advice to give because the W is still wayward in her thinking and doesn't own her stuff. I read excuse after excuse. The lying and excuses have gone on for too long. I hope you make some head way in MC.



BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Hope Full,

As a BW reading through your wife's letter I came to the same conclusion as Lexxy and PB. More than that, I recognized glimpses of my own FWH in that letter. We will be four years post d-day in a couple of months. Do I think he is completely over OW, without a doubt. Is there any C, only through attorney's and I am fully aware. Is FWH remorseful, absolutely, the pain is pouring out of his eyes every time something stressful occurs. We recently had an incident with our DS 11 finding some internet sites that were not appropriate. Being the well trained BS, I found the sites the DS had been too. My first question was to ask FWH if he had been there (not that he ever had) his answer was no, then I had to ask DS 20 (who wouldn't go there because GF would kill him and he could do it on his laptop, not on my computer), therefore DS 11 was positioned to confess. The point being. FWH was sent back into the guilt, that even though this is something we would have dealt with anyway, he doesn't want me going through any more disappointments related to sex and the males in my home. His own guilt and remorse overwhelm him.

Am I failing him? Maybe, because I have yet to reach a point, despite him doing everything right to rebuild our M (and I am trusting him, but with that Dr. Harley notation in the back of my mind) and still loving him, to feel "In love again" like I was on d-day. To be willing to say yes if he wanted me to renew our vows, he hasn't asked (alluded to it early in recovery) because I still don't know if I could do that. These are my faults and shortcomings. I am still too fearful, still too hurt. I do not want him suffering, I do not want to continue to suffer. But I see the on going guilt and pain for him that I read in your FWW's letter to you. We have to find a way to heal ourselves so that we can help them heal. I believe we can only truly heal together. But it is an extremely painful road. (We also fed off of each others bad days, they are farther apart and much fewer now. But talking about what has us down instead of letting the other one think up their own reasons for our down days is important).

Sorry this was so long, not meant to T/J but that we must find a way for ourselves and our BS's to be able to forgive them and fall in love again. They can not and we cannot go on indefinitely hurting and not healing and forgiving.

Fled


Me BS
D Day 4-2-2005
OC born 12-2004
DS 21, DS 12
Married 1993

May the love hidden deep inside your heart find the love waiting in your dreams. May the laughter that you find in your tomorrow wipe away the pain you find in your yesterdays.

Recovering....it's a long road, even with a dedicated FWH
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