Before you ask, YES I know this is an infidelity forum. However, you all are so knowledgeable that I knew you could offer some good advice.

My brother is 18 years old and has been dating a 15 year old girl for almost a year.

Today, for some reason--I don't have all the details--her grandmother has decided to ask him to marry her GD, the girlfriend. She will be 16 soon, I believe.

Is there any advice you can give me about helping my brother with removing his head from his posterior?

Our father apparently knew and NEGLECTED to tell us, but that is no surprise since he's girl crazy too.


This comes after we moved 50 miles away from the town we were in. Out of nowhere!


What can I do?

My uncle is outside as I type trying to persuade him to stay here.

If you don't post, please pray for him to COME TO HIS SENSES!

EDIT: He's back inside and getting a verbal thrashing from our uncle. What can I do to help?

Also, mods, feel free to move this topic into the right forum if you need to.

Oh, man. Trying to talk sense to a teenage boy IS like trying to talk sense to a wayward.

Not sure you'll have any impact at all. Maybe it would make more sense to try talking to gf's grandmother?

You DO have my prayers.

Good news. The sheriff has left (my uncle called the sheriff) and my brother has stayed here.

My uncle is trying to tell him how he would have gone to jail since we are in VA and the age of consent is...18, I think?

Thank you for your support.

EDIT: The GF's grandma tried to ENCOURAGE this. Talking to her would do no good.

My uncle has told us to not allow my brother to call her under any circumstances, advising us to hide the phones.

My brother has just a few minutes ago asked our grandma (who, while being a sweet and gentle person is easily manipulated by her kids and grandkids)...to call her.

I hid the phones...it's terrible! He's going through what I can only classify as detox...he's crying and being generally irrational.

Is there anyone (besides gf) that your brother trusts, respects? Even a classmate? Could that person intervene?

Not likely a therapist could make a dent at this point, but maybe a trip to the family doctor? Could the kid be depressed and need short-term meds/counselling?

This is a tough one. Pulling for you, karmarose.

You might try the "scared straight" thing, showing him how he will be prosecuted as a sex offender for contining this relationship(?) Need to check on state laws.

Does sound like a WS in the heat of the "fog." Having worked with college students for almost 20 years I understand when you say he's not in his right mind. Probably immature, hormones raging, sensing he's in "love" and a host of other things.

Do what you can to keep them apart, even if that means calling the police.

At this point, things are calm and he is back home. The sheriff was called and my uncle (who is an electrician and will henceforth be referred to as "DU") has forbidden him from calling her--as I've stated before, just going back over the facts.

I think this whole idea of his being prosecuted hasn't scared him a bit, but rather gives him the idea that it is "one more trial of love!"

What is it going to take for him to GET IT? This is the same concern you BS's have with your WS's, I know.

There's no one we can get to talk to him. See, we just moved 50 miles so there's NO ONE who can talk to him.

No therapists, no family doctor--again, since we just moved, we're in the process of acquiring NEW doctors and the like.


As for depression and all, I'm not entirely sure. He has a temper just like our father--and my only fear is that he will abandon us the way our father did--leave his whole family, and step into the girlfriend's family.

Tonight after we had an argument he even threatened to put me through a wall--things like this are commonplace with him, so I ignored it.

He does have anger issues, so maybe that's something to do with it...it's just one big mess that I simply...it's almost too much to bear, really.

Maybe this is part of the problem. He's at that age when peers are of utmost importance and if he has nobody else then this girl has come to mean everything to him. I know this doesn't sort the problem right now but could he get involved in things where he can meet a wider bunch of friends? Could one of his old friends come to stay for a night or two?

No, that's not an option. None of his friends have ever come over to the house, and ALL his friends were in this old school of his, so yes, his only option IS this girl.

He should be in college next fall--he graduated earlier, but I'm not sure how the situation will go until then. I worry a LOT what will happen when this girl turns 16...

Has he been sheltered from consequences in the past?

Do other's, like you and your uncle, take the responsibility for the right choices?

Sometimes weak boundaries lead to this kind of thing and the only wake up will be consequenses that he suffers himself. Call the police and get them involved in interviewing him for SF with a minor. It might wake him up before it is too late. If he doesn't feel the heat of his recklessness, it will be a pattern that he will continue repeating throughout his life. He will keep on finding bigger things to conquer to get your/anyone's attention and end up in jail or worse.

In all honesty, both of us have been pretty sheltered. The only one who would actually stand up to anyone about their decisions was my grandfather, and as you all know he has passed away.

Now I'm the only person in the family who will.

My grandmother tends to be...well, she complains, but makes things easier for him--allowing him to talk to the GF after he was forbidden by DU to call her for example. She is very easily manipulated by those she loves.

The cops have been out here yesterday, like I've said--but I don't...I don't want to be the one to call them, because I'm already the bad guy for standing up to him about what he does --going off for the whole weekend, that sort of thing. If the cops are out here too much, we may get kicked out of the trailer we just moved into.


A little while before this, he came to me telling me how scared the GF was of SF in general...I didn't think anything of it. What do you suppose that meant?

An update. It is two months later and my brother is still seeing this girl.

He has had one overnight stay with her, too. (He gets very mad, almost to the point where you think he'd break something, if he does not get to see her. He takes calls in his room or outside, often in the rain or snow if conditions apply--tease him too much about it [or anything really] and he says he'll put you through a wall)

I don't know what to do. All it takes is her grandmother getting mad at him and he could go to prison for ten years.

(Did I mention her grandma lives with her husband and ex-husband?)

She lives with her husband and ex-husband?

He stayed overnight with her at this house?

Why would grandma get mad at him, then?

Charlotte

I'm not saying that she would right now. But if she DID get mad, she would probably have him prosecuted.

I am so worried that that's what she'll do--they've paid enormous expenses for him, even bought his $400+ high school ring.

They've supported him financially?

Maybe she's hoping the granddaughter gets knocked up so she'll be someone else's problem.

Charlotte

She has had brain surgery, and all that sort of thing. I don't know the extent of her problems, though...

Your brother is a rapist. Report your brother to the police, the school she and he are in, and to her parents. Then let them take care of it. That is all you can do.

She goes to the high school 50 miles away. He graduated early. Her parents...um, well, I don't hear much about her mother. She's in the picture, just not...

I don't think I can do this to him. How would I do this without them knowing who did it?

Doing so would probably get me thrown out of the house or something.

I don't think I can do this to him. How would I do this without them knowing who did it?

There are many ways. First send an anonomous note to the school and copy the police department and send a copy there too. Then, copy her parents. An anonomous note is fine if you copy it to everyone. Then all the people who get the copies will have to take action.

Better yet:

Write one anonomous letter. Make it seem like it is from one of the girl's girlfriends or even a church or some other person she knows. Put a return address on it that is NOT your own.

Then, send copies to, and list all the people you are copying:

1. Her school
2. His school or work
3. Your parents
4. Her parents
5. Your grandparents
6. Any other adults she is in contact with
7. The police department
8. The school counseling office
9. Your brother himself

The idea is to copy all these people and sent many copies to all of these people without letting anyone know you did it.

Then, never tell that you did it. Everyone will know and can take action but you will never be implicated in this if you do it carefully.

You said she is 16?

How old does someone need to be in your state to date someone older with parental consent?

Obviously they must like your brother or they would have turned him in already?

You need to be careful about what you do. You don't want a "Romeo & Juliet" scenario here.

Charlotte

OR: You could just let your 18 year old brother continue to rape the 15 year old. Heck, what harm would it do, your brother is corrupt already. Let him get her pregnant, then something will have to happen.

You could just leave the situation alone. This has happened to many many young people. One rapes the other, underage one and then the underage one gets pregnant. Thier lives are ruined as is the life of the baby. But you cannot stop it can you?

Your brother is already ruining his life or has ruined his life, What can you do or say to turn his life around? Not much.

I really feel sorry for the potential baby born of this 15 years old girl. Is your brother at least using birth control? Give him a box of 100 condoms. Leave it in his room and run out of there before he sees you.

Stella:

Your point about the age difference is very important, and I think something that really hasn't been addressed on this thread.

Questions: Have they engaged in intercourse, YET? Is it presumed here? Karma has stated that the brother has spent the night over there. Does that mean that they have had intercourse?

Are thier general interactions supervised? One house or the other, adults present, (enabling adults not included in this)

Did the girls grandmother ask your brother to marry her, because she is a backwoods grandma, or because she was just wanting to make it legal?

And Karma: This is something that you should do because it needs to be done. There is NO NEED to hide. Because it WILL come back to you. Might as well stand up and up front about it.
Statutory Rape charges should not be thrown around lightly. And this 15 year girl is certainly not capable of making some of these choices. Your Brother, at 18, IS.

And next Tuesday, this 15 year old may determine that having your brother as a boyfriend is pointless. And finds a NEW one.

LG

I partly agree with Stella and others that there's little you can say to your brother to stop this-teenagers in "love" are as stubborn as waywards and they generally care even less about consequences. If the family the girl is living with approves, that's one HUGE obstacle against your cause.

However, like you said, if your bro has a falling out with the grandmother, she can use the statutory rape laws of the state to seriously screw him over.

And here's where I disagree with Stella's advice-since the consequence you're trying to avoid is little bro's possible arrest and conviction, how is turning him in, even anonymously, going to help? All you're going to do is ruin his life-and get him labeled a sex offender-over consensual sex - the 15 year old is a willing part of this, remember...

So what can you do? Well, treat him like a wayward husband-do NOT let him bring this girl over to your house, do NOT let him talk to her on your house phone, and if you're paying for his cell phone, don't let him use that either! Basically, do not make it easy for him to conduct this relationship at your house, using your resources. And be a broken record in reminding him of the possible legal consequences of messing with this girl.

EDIT: Another thing, talk to the girl! Get her contact info and then have a heart-to-heart with her about those same legal consequences! Remind her those consequences are the proverbial Sword of Damocles hanging over your bro's head if they keep seeing each other. There is a chance that she may decide to break it off herself with that knowledge.

Depending on your state laws, he could be looking at rape charges, prison time, and life on the sex offender registry. Not something to fool around with. Perhaps you could look up your state's laws, print a copy, and give it to him and to her. Maybe she'll have more sense than he does.

I'm not sure if they HAVE had intercourse. I haven't gone to the girl's house when he's there overnight.

I control none of his cell phone (he talks and texts to her ALL the time, sees her rarely. Maybe once a month, if that). I cannot control her coming to the house (this does not happen anyway, she doesn't come to visit him, he has to go to her).

I cannot control his going to her house (I protest when we visit the city 50 miles away where she lives but my grandmother will let him visit her house anyway and will in fact scold me if I protest).

I can do ALMOST nothing to keep this secret if I do send a letter/s (I have no driver's license, but if I walked to the mailbox...[we live in a trailer park])

There was talk that she [the girl's grandma] wanted my brother to marry the girl. "Backwoods" is probably an appropriate term here.

I'll start, but this won't be easy...

Karma, gotcha!

Sent the email.

The only new thing that occurred was that I was talking with my grandmother about how my brother could get scr3w3d over by HER grandma if her grandma got mad at him.

He wakes up (she'd been trying to get him up for half an hour), comes in, and tells me to mind my own business.

Had I said anything he'd probably have "mocked" hitting me. He does this whenever we press too hard about anything.

There's a lot going on here....not much of is sounds healthy.

I should probably go a little more in-depth with another situation.

My grandmother is a diabetic and will occasionally have "spells."

She doesn't eat after she takes her shot, things like that--she can "lose" her head temporarily. (The two times it happened she was driving. Nearly wrecked, but the first I stopped her from doing so)

The first time it happened since we moved, I was with her and my brother was off with this girl. (He spent almost a whole week at her house around the beginning of the year)

The second time I was at work. (I work at Wal-Mart. I don't see why people say it's a bad place to work, I get treated nicely) And she ended up in the hospital

I feel that I can't date (and I never have in all my 19 years) because SOMEONE has to look out for her. SOMEONE has to stay around and make sure she eats or makes sure she takes her insulin.

Karma, how old is she? Has her doctor had a talk with her about personal responsibility? Does she have the mental faculties to care for herself? Or, does she choose to keep others in her life as caretakers thereby absolving herself of personal responsibility?

In other words, does she have impaired mental function or is she manipulating you?

She's not impaired (she is 63). AS long as she eats and takes her insulin she is fine, just like you or me.

It's when she doesn't eat, or doesn't take her insulin that she's like that.

In fact she takes care of us. She's been a SAHM most of her adult life.

She had three boys. I am the first "daughter" she had.

She worries about everything and will call me to help with bill-paying (she's not too good with a computer yet installs mahjonng all the time) online.

Geesh. It's like pulling hen's teeth to get him to do anything, too.

He was asked many times to walk the dogs and when I told my grandmother he still hadn't done it he whacked a filing cabinet.

Then started yelling at me about how I'm going to "get mine."

You know Karma, it sounds like drugs may be involved too.

His brother hasn't raped anyone. The age of consent in Virginia is 15.
http://www.moraloutrage.net/staticpages/index.php?page=Virginia

I'm not saying that the relationship is healthy. But it is not criminal.

Then, if she is mentally well, do you intend to be her caretaker for the next 20 years? That's what you seem to be allowing. How could she be led to become more self-sufficient, at least health-wise?

What would happen if you were to move for one reason or another....job/love/other necessity? If your brother were to hurt you, would you stay there? Would you be his target as well as her guardian? How would that work? Allowing her to control your life? Allowing him to bully and badger and threaten you?

Did you read that? Did you read, how your wrote in your posts, that he is controlling you through threats of violence? Did you read how your grandmother has you trapped there in your brother's cycle of threatened violence?

My brother has a trach(sp?). He probably is on several different meds for his allergies and things like that. Drugs? Hmm...you have a point...

My grandmother--well, someone has to take care of her. If I left home...

Today, for instance. He is calm again. It's like he was never mean.

I never looked at it as being trapped...weird how it takes an outsider to do that.

EDIT: Weird, I was told the age of consent was 18 here. I guess that makes that part moot.

My mistake. Looking closer...

§ 18.2-371. Causing or encouraging acts rendering children delinquent, abused, etc.; penalty; abandoned infant. Any person 18 years of age or older, including the parent of any child, who (i) willfully contributes to, encourages, or causes any act, omission, or condition which renders a child delinquent, in need of services, in need of supervision, or abused or neglected as defined in § 16.1-228, or (ii) engages in consensual sexual intercourse with a child 15 or older not his spouse, child, or grandchild, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor


I'm very sorry for confusing the situation.

So, supposing they have had intercourse and the grandmother knew of it, she and my brother could both be charged?

Ayiyi. What a web.

Don't apologize. It's easy to misread.