My WH gave me the speech on Jan 25 of this year after I found a Facebook message involving another woman. He moved out two days later and he has now filed for D.

He is asking for 50/50 custody of our DD (7) and does not want to pay child support.

He is possibly trying to get his share of the house, which was my home before we got married and is still in my name only.

He is possibly trying to get half of my retirement.

He is possibly trying to get half of some inheritance money I received from a family member.

I say possibly on the last three because he did not give a definite answer on the Discovery, he said he was waiting to hear my response first before he decided how to respond. I didn't know we could even do this on Discovery.

He only submitted one month out of the 16 months of requested copies of his credit card statements.

He has already postponed our final court date (which was set for later in June) and another date has yet to be set.

I am the most concerned over the 50/50 custody. To think that he gets to decide to bail on our family so he can play bachelor and then try to force my little girl to be apart from her mom, sister and home for half of her childhood just leaves me heartbroken.

Does anyone know what the chances are of a judge giving him the 50/50? He lives in a different town 45 minutes from where my DD goes to school and I have no idea how he plans to get her there and back each day, especially since he often works until 6:30 or 7:00.

IANAL. He'll most likely have to live in your school district to get 50/50. He can't touch inheritance money--until it is 'converted' into marital property (by putting it in a joint account, or trading the cash for an asset, like a car), it is 100% yours. He would only be entitled to half of the equity that has accrued on the home since the time of the marriage--good timing for that to be in your favor, perhaps. And again, he would only be able to touch half of the retirement accrued during the time of the marriage--everything from before marriage is yours. Again, probably a great time for that, too.

He's trying to be big and scary. You be calm and smart.

CWMI, thank you. Everything you said makes sense, and I hope you're right about the school district thing.


I needed to hear this. I've felt like he's had the upper hand from day 1, as he had time to plan (for a full year according to him, but who really knows) so it's been a struggle....but I'm getting there.

This is coming from two attorneys that I'm acquainted with. They have both said that unless both parents are in amicable terms and both in agreement for 50/50 custody, a judge is not very likely at all to award 50/50 custody.

Thank you.

This has been my #1 concern and has literally been keeping me up at night. I would never try to keep DD from her dad and am all for the regular visitation, but I would NEVER agree to 50/50.

It seems to me that in addition to what the two attorneys mentioned, the distance and his work schedule alone present enough of a challenge to the idea of 50/50. Just my opinion, of course, but I think you're safe on this one. I'd be extremely surprised if he were able to get that much time.

Something to think about:

1st if he is asking for 50/50 that means he is wanting to be a big part of your dd's life. An involved father is good. Emotionality aside, it makes sence if both parents do "half time" . Where it could get ugly for you is if you fight him on this,; One: he will feel that you think you have more rights to her then he does, this will inrage him and he could cause alot of trouble for you. Two, it looks really good in court when a father wants to be that active as a parent, courts are not just sideing with mothers anymore. Three, if you want a peaceful coparenting experiane you must respect that you both have the equal right to halve time with your dd and influance over her.

Listen I know how you feel, I had very sumilar feelings during our first and second seperation. It took everything I had to be reasonable, dispite how I personaly felt about it. I loved that he wanted the kids, but I didn't want to be without them. It's hard, but it's all hard, and we have to deal with the situation we are in and we survive.

Denying him his parental rights unless he's a drug user, abusive, etc... Is not the road you want to travel. The courts are there to finalize it all, and to make sure everyone plays nice. But it's way better if you guys can work it out respectfully on your own.

You need to think about what example your going to send your daughter, if he actually stuck to the half time deal she would in fact be better off having both parents in her life like that and would feel equaly loved. It's hard in times like these to remember we don't own our children, and we have to really be careful in situations like this to not have our own feelings overide logic, he wants 50/50 you have to consider the fight ahead if he doesn't get that, if you wanted that what wouldn't you do? Let's say the shoe was on the other foot... It's hard to come to terms with, at first.

I have to say my kids are great, the only time they complain is if the plans change and dad needs me to have them more now and again. Changing houses is hard sometimes, but they are very go with the flow exsepting people. Sometimes the things we think will harm our children or that we worry about, bring out beautiful qualities.


Food for thought... Keep the child issue seperate, from the marital issues, and possible demands...

Good luck

I'm sorry for your problems. I'm in a similar situation and have learned that most of the previous responses are correct. Judges want to make consistency a priority for kids in a divorce. They want the kids lives, as much as possible to stay the same: same neighborhood, school, friends, church, etc. The fact that your husband moved to a different neighborhood will make 50/50 a near impossibility. My husband did the same and is fighting for full custody now because he knows 50/50 is not a possibility because of this fact. (He doesn't want the kids, just doesn't want to pay CS.) No judge wants to see a kid spending a large part of their childhood in transit and will typically look at the parent who moved to a different neighborhood as being less interested in custody.

I see NewLife's point, but think in your case, 50/50 would be way too much of a burden on the kids if your husband stays where he is. Shared custody is a more likely arrangement, and different than 50/50 if there are no extenuating circumstances. (Plus you'd still get some CS).

ASSUMING your WH is a good father, my advice is don't make a shared arrangement where you get all the grunt work (weekdays) and he gets all the fun time. It also breeds inequity regarding getting your career back off the ground while he is free and clear of parental burdens to pursue his. Let him take on half the weekend time, and a small percentage of week days if you are willing and the kids are good with it regarding car time, getting up earlier for commutes, missing friends, etc.

If this type of shared arrangement isn't possible, or if he hasn't been a good father, precedent is key. Tell him you will let the judge decide and keep the kids with you, visiting him on some or most weekends in the meantime. By the time the courts come to decide, they will see your previous arrangement as a consistency that the kids are now used to and take that into consideration. Good luck.

This could be true....OR it could be that he wants half time so he won't have to pay any or at least less child support. If he hasn't been an involved Dad, it is not likely that he will start being one. If he has been one, then it's possible he really does want the parenting time.

Well the answer is you never know... If it's a ploy to pay less or no support then it's a ploy. The child still gets both parents and he still gets half responsibility.

I understand the asumption that a fatherwho wasn't so involved before might not change his ways, but actually my kids dad really step up to the plate in a really big way and is way more of a hands on parent then ever before.

Don't be to comfortable with the idea that because he's not in the same school district etc that that means much. He could drive her, it might be harder for him but oh well, she has to keep the same school. My kids dad lives 45 min away and we do 50/50 no child support, with 5 kids... It's doable, and respectful in my opinion,if the fathers up for it.

One last tid bit. My sister raised her d by herself for 10 years, one day the father who moved out of state and who's in the army decided he wanted to sue for full custody ( did I mention he owed so much in back support also) . Anyway he told the judge my sister prevented him from seeing his d and didn't let him have any kind of relationship with her wich wasnt true. The court deemed him the most likely one to be respectful to the other parents rights. What she did was tell him he can't pop in and out of her life etc. He has full custody, my sister gets her everyother Christmas every other spring break and a few weeks in summer. This was 4 years ago... Total bull but happens, mothers are only favored with young babys... She had to move to another state where she is being raised by her new step mom, since he's active duty. Crazy but true

Things have changed, be very careful and as reasonable as possible, your in a position now because 50/50 is reasonable, he didn't ask for 60/40 so be very careful before acting... Perhaps talking to him and feel him out about how he sees that working. Just listening you shouldn't respond if your emotional.

My 2 cents

Good advice NewLife. As hard as it is to say goodbye to your kids, you cannot and should not deny the father "reasonable" visitation or it could burn you. My situation had many extenuating circumstances: A child with special needs to whom I was the sole caregiver, a mostly absentee and ocassionally abusive father who worked long hours and originally couldn't be more involved with the kids lives, his move to another city and immediately in with the OW despite the kids expecting daddy to come home in a few weeks, and, a consent order for the existing custody arrangement signed by WH. However, he HAS been a much better father since he left. And, while the every other weekend without my kids initially was incredibly painful and lonely, I now look forward to that time off. And can even conceive of more time with their father (a little) if he can come up with an arrangement other than the OW raising the kids while he works.

Point is, each circumstance is different, and the strangeness of the situation will become more bearable in time.

The problem I'm facing right now is that my WH was abusing Ambien and smoking pot right up until the time he left the home. He was taking 7 times (yes 7!!!) the prescribed amt. of Ambien and then he drove with our girls in the car to school the next morning. I didn't realize he had done this (although the Ambien abuse had been an ongoing issue before) until after he left one morning with them and I found the bottle, filled the day before with 7 pills missing. When he got back home I told him that if he ever abused Ambien again and drove with our children that I would call the police and report him. That happened less than one week before he moved out.

The other issue is that I have long wondered if he was Bipolar, and possibly even Borderline Personality D/O. I work in this field so I'm not just pulling this out of thin air. Some times he can be great, other times he's extremely moody and angry and he wants to be left alone. His anger and sarcasm can cut to the core, and no one is spared. My older DD (14) has commented on how peaceful it is now around the house without him there, because we were all literally walking on eggshells trying not to set him off.

He originally DID want the 60/40 with 50/50 in the summer, which I have agreed to as long as my DD has the same childcare that she's had since birth (her grandma). To me, that arrangement was very reasonable. And now he has decided he wants something different. I do wonder if it has something to do with child support, as he is definitely not living the good life since he left. He's in a ratty old college apartment and he's doing his laundry in the bathtub!

I'm sorry, I don't see how it is that HE gets to decide to have an affair, HE gets to decide to walk out, HE gets to decide to file for D,and now he thinks that HE gets to try to keep a little 1st grade girl from her mom and sister for 1/2 of her childhood....because of HIS selfish choices???? I just can't see it.

Distance can be overcome if you are creative. My exWW and I currently have 50/50 shared custody and she lives 90 miles away from me. It's not the ideal situation and we had a custody action because of it.

Right now, the kids go to school about 30 miles south of me where we lived while married. She moved 60 miles south of the maritial town when we sold the house. Thus, neither one of us live in the school district. The solution was to enroll DD5 into the charter school that DS7 is at when she starts kindergarten in the fall. That way, the school district issue is moot.

I've been doing the 30 mile commute to school since Dec 08. This summer, I am moving about 15 miles closer which will help tremendously with logistics on my end. While we have a lot of issues with our coparenting, logistics because of distance is not one of them.

Mom currently has the kids on Monday and Tuesday nights, me Wed and Thur, and then we swap weekends. It's not a bad schedule because you can schedule stuff on your own nights with the kids and not have to worry about whether the ex will do it on her week.

NewLife2 & PSUBIKER, I'm wondering if the 50/50 arrangements were something that you both agreed on with your STBX's, or was this court ordered?

Thanks for the input.

This is a question that haunted me. Eventually I had to let that question go, it was just making me bitter. Still does. You just have to let yourself believe that SOMETHING has to be worked out. Not having a relationship with DD is not an option just because he did all that. Doesn't necessarily have to be on hist terms alone. Best of luck!

Well, we DID have something worked out. Every other weekend and one day during the week. It was working out great. That was what HE wanted and that was what the judge ordered. But HE changed his mind. Again.

I would NEVER expect my DD to not have any kind of relationship with her dad because she loves him and she needs her dad in her life. But really, at what point do I have any kind of say in what happens in my child's life??? Up till now, it's been him calling all the shots about everything.

You have say. This is a marathon, not a sprint. He's not calling all the shots, your say is as important as his. Maybe not to him, but to the judge. Read my post again, I said SOMETHING will be worked out. Not HIS WAY. Don't panic. Mine did a complete 180 too. And I didn't take my own advice. I panicked, I lost hair and weight. Months later (precedent), while nothing permanent is settled and he is still going for FULL custody, I still have full custody, am more likely to keep it, but am also more open to the kids seeing their dad a little more, despite the schmuck that he is. Divorce is not fair, but in the end it's usually reasonable. There's a difference between the two, I am learning.

Thanks fellspointmom....I really appreciate your words of wisdom.

You're right, I need to not panic (which I have been)...nothing good ever comes of that. At this point I'm just praying for a reasonable outcome and I'm keeping my DD's best interest as my priority...even if it's not necessarily what I'd choose.

Thanks, again and I hope your situation works out for the best, too.

We had originally consented to 50/50 shared custody. I was living 30 miles north of the maritial town, exWW lived where the kids go to school. At the time, exWW knew she had to move. We had all assumed that she would move somewhere within 30 minutes of me because that would put her smack dab in the middle of the Philadelphia Metropolitin area and thus a larger job market. But, she moved 60 miles south to rural, southern MD.

A week or so after we signed the consent agreement, she went ballistic when she found out that she wouldn't be getting 2300 / month in CS since we had shared custody. Even though my monthly expenditures are greater than 2300 / mo, she is only getting a third of that and she didn't like it.

A few months later, she moved to southern MD and I filed a custody action since neither one of us live in the school district and she moved without any consultation with me. At the hearing, she provided some documents that she was living with a friend on monday and Tuesday in the town where the kids go to school and the judge bought the story and didn't change custody.

So, right now, we have 50 / 50 shared, we live 90 miles apart, and neither one of us live anywhere near where the kids go to school.

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Well, we DID have something worked out. Every other weekend and one day during the week. It was working out great. That was what HE wanted and that was what the judge ordered. But HE changed his mind. Again.
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Ahem. This is the Art of WW negotiation. He is asking for pie in the sky, hoping for a vanilla cone. Like a growling DOG, he may use this as a tool to scare you into giving up items, support and child support $$$. Fuggettaboutit!

You have a precident set up that means YOU are the primary caregiver. What is your counselor saying?

Don't freak. You have not given 50/50 (Do you know that the courts are now figuring out that 50/50 is a terrible idea.) It is not stable, not economically fair for the children. Sounds nice on paper, tho.

"Hello, WW Weedhead?! Um... how are you? Meet my Atty. Bulldog Bill!"

What concerns me is that our final court date WAS set for June 24, however about a month ago WH asked to have that date changed and it is now set for August. I'm afraid he has done this to show the judge that a new precident was set...50/50 over the summer and he will try to show the judge how great it's worked out.

We are doing 50/50 over the summer, however it's not REALLY 50/50. During his week my DD stays with him during the nights and he brings her to my house in the morning, and I take her to her childcare provider (my mom) and then I get to see her in the evenings before he gets her at 5:30. I am home all day with her on Thursdays, since that is my day off.

I meet with my lawyer tomorrow to see what his chances are at really getting the 50/50 (plus his chances at getting my house, retirement, etc.).


When you ask what my counselor is saying, do you mean my lawyer or my IC?

Interesting about the courts now starting to think 50/50 stinks...is that in all states?

PSUBIKER...thanks for letting me know more about your 50/50 arrangement. It sounds like a cluster, but I hope it's working out ok for you and your kids!

It sounds like your WW might not have agreed to the 50/50 if she had known it would cut the CS, is that right?

Do you think you could have got the 50/50 if your wife had not consented to it?

From a money standpoint, I would have been better off financially as Every Other Weekend Dad. The reason being that my responsibility to the children would have been fixed cost equal to about 35% of my GROSS income. When I did the figuring, I am spending close to 40% of my gross directly attributable to the kids. Her issue is one of control - she doesn't like that I pay daycare, I buy all the clothes, I pay all the medical expenses, etc.

While she would have more money, her expenses would be much higher too because right now I pick up just about all the kid expenses such as clothes, school fees, etc.

Any documentation on this? Delaware just went to a rebuttable presumption of 50/50 last year. After doing 50/50 for 18 months, the issues you bring up are not what is causing problems in my situation. The issues I am seeing would be the same if we had 50/50 or I was every other weekend dad. I.E., a parent who feels she is the only one who has a right to the kids.

It is based on a few things, I believe.

The 50/50 leads to a lot of gridlock in descision making. Instead of helping, one parent can constantly disrupt the child rearing process- for years.

Secondly, in 50/50 the economic differences stand out greater. The parent with the better income has a better set up, without support for the other spouse, the child has two very different lifestyles. This is not condusive to a stable environment, for the children, sometimes there has ben issues where the children desire to be with the parent who provides the most material things.

There are a few articles about this newer thinking online, that is where I first found out about it. What used to be seen as a "King Soloman" type of problem solving is not everything it is set up to be.

Every situation is different, but in my state uses the Melson formula (which is based on the income shares model) for Child Support, both the exWW and I have a very close standard of living. I make a good wage, she was a SAHM just getting back on her feet. The way our support order is structured, it costs about $2300 dollars per month according to the state to support the kids. This is broken out by $750 to daycare, $1500 to support the kids. Due to the 50/50, the $1500 gets split between her and I, thus, my costs are $750, and her costs are $750. Since she is only making 30K, I pay her $750 in child support. We are ordered to split daycare, so I pay about $360/mo, and she pays $360mo.

Thus, her �true� expenditures for the kids should be $360/mo since she is already getting $750/mo in support. My expenditures are $750 for support to her, $360 for daycare, and $750 that I retain for the kids. But, here�s the issue. Since she is low income, I pay for all the clothes, all the school activities, all out of pocket medical expenses. So, while her 750 pretty much goes to food and shelter, mine goes to food, shelter, and all the other expenses for the kids. In total, she pays out of her own pocket $360 / mo, and I pay $1860 / mo. if you go by the support calculation. My exWW�s beef is she would like to have that entire $1860 that I pay instead of just $750. The part that she doesn�t understand is I need to retain money to support the kids when they are with me.

In my case, the CS formulas have done a pretty good job of balancing the incomes between the two households even though there is a huge disparity. We were ordered to do coparenting counseling and when exWW tried to pull the I�m rich and she�s poor card, the counselor shut her down immediately.
I am very skeptical of your assertions that there is a huge imbalance. That might be the case if there is no support order in place and the parents agree to split everything. But, if it�s an income shares state, the higher wage earner would still be paying a much larger percent of the total child care costs as in my case. And, in states that do just a straight percentage of gross, the imbalance would be on the parent who is paying support as there is usually no mechanism to adjust support based on visitation time in states that go with a straight percentage for support calculations.

Yes, in our shared custody arrangement she is getting a lot less support than she other wise would. But, what is missed are my costs to support the kids.

Well, when I thought I was getting a divorce, my H filed. I got tons of solicitaitons from other DA's - I guess my name is on some kind of record at the courthouse.

This 50/50 issue was brought up in the info/documentation I recieved (unsolicited) from the divorce atty's. Each sent me PAGES of "advice and info and tips" to go through, from that I started reading online.

Most, tho was well thought out and pretty helpful. Most said the same thing, and more that one advised against 50/50- for various reasons. Maybe in MI it is different.

I was not saying that the "poor parent" is the W. In a lot of cases it is DAD who gets a "bachelor pad" until the D's are settled.

From what I've seen, 50/50 is harder on the parents than the kids. The main reason being that both parents are still tightly tied to each other. Both need to remain in the school district (or accomodate otherwise as PSU has done). Both also need to communicate well and frequently.

The real advantage to it is that the children have both parents involved in their lives. It's true involvement - not just someone they have to visit like Grandma. It means both parents are aware of and involved in school progress and activities, extracurricular events, sports, hobbies and everything else about their children's lives.

Disparities in standards of living do exist, but they do so regardless of whether it's a 50/50 arrangement or every second weekend. In any event, both parents are knocked down a notch or several upon divorce - two households cost more than one.

At some point or another, the child is going to want to live at one house full time and they will be old enough that even the courts won't prevent it. That choice is most likely to be made based on their friends in the area rather than any other factor. They may move to one parent's when they are mad at the other and then back again occassionally but any permanent moves will relate more to their social life than anything. They know that the paying parent will keep on buying them stuff regardless of where they live. And of the people I know with more than one kid, only one family has all the kids at the same parents. For the most part, one kid moved in with dad and another with mom. It is not even necessarily the same sex parent - again they choose to live where they have the most/best friends.

If courts hate 50/50, it's probably because these parents fight more than sole/no custody parents do.

Tabby, really good post. My attorney feels the changes to 50/50 will result in LESS legal wrangling when it comes to custody because it reduced the perceived power inbalance in regards to the kids from the outset.

It affected our case preparations when we filed a custody action because of her move. We were going to do a full custody evaluation at the cost of 5K because the risk for me was being an every other weekend dad.

Once we found out 50/50 was the new standard, we axed the custody eval because my risk got much less. Basically, my risk was status quo which was 50/50. So, it didn't make sense to do the custody eval at that point.

I did say this was put forth by an atty.

I imagine it is the rare parent who can not agree about the child rearing.

Hey, ST;

Before you agree to anything, talk to your legal team first. We are not professionals, and every situation in different. You have to look at the long term reality of what co parenting (new term) entails.

You also must assess your willingness and your xh wilingness to cooperate in this.

It has been my expereince on these boards that XS are sometimes NOT working in the best intrest.

That's for sure. Seems almost like a given, especially when dealing with a wayward who has acted selfishly and in their own best interest for a very long time.

Meeting tomorrow a.m. with my lawyer, we'll see what he says...

I left my lawyer's office feeling discouraged.

As far as the 50/50, he says that certain judge's favor it, and others don't. Our judge happens to be one that is random with his opinion of it.

He named some things that we could focus on in our argument, however it was interesting how he stressed that stating anything about the mother-child bond is not a reasonable argument. Really? While I know that my DD loves her dad, it has never been a question in anyone's mind that she and I share a very tight bond. Every picture she draws includes me and her together and she has always wanted to be with me, and it has been like this since her birth.

He also did some calculations and figured that it's possible that I could end up paying my WH hundreds of dollars every month even with the 50/50. Despite the fact that I don't want it and haven't wanted any of this.

He stated that I could end up paying my WH over $30,000 for his half of the equity in the house (which was MY home prior to the marriage, and remains in MY name alone).

Needless to say, I left there feeling completely discouraged.

How can it be that a person can do what my WH did and potentially walk out of it better off, while I'm left essentially screwed???

Is it normal for a lawyer to present all the 'worse case scenarios' like mine did without seeming to offer a way to defend myself or fight?? Shouldn't my lawyer be as outraged as I am about what's happening, or do I watch too many movies?

I'd advise getting a second,or third opinion.

Is this because we should do this anyway (get second opinions) or because it sounds like my lawyer is lacking something?

Thanks for the input.

Sidney,
did you get a second opinion?
My lawyer painted a pretty bleak picture when we first met also. In her case it was like she was trying to get me to not jump into D too easily (painting the yard on the other side of the fence black).
Either way, judges and lawyers have to regard for the atrocities that happen as long as the children are physically safe - they simply can't be bothered. No sympathy. No warm and fuzzies. Don't look for it cause it's not there. All business, all money, all the time.
opt

Different states and circumstances, but my two cents:

I'm against 50/50 and so is the court appointed lawyer representing the best interest of my kids. (A lawyer my WH insisted on because he wants full custody in order to avoid child support payments, but really hoping for a 50/50 arrangement which he could really never handle.) However, I imaging 50/50 could work under the right circumstances. None of those circumstances exist in my case. I would imagine those specific circumstances are a rare occurance.

A 2nd opinion is a good idea, but as long as the lawyer works for you, the bleak opinions don't matter. He may say that losing part of the equity in your home is a possibility to warn you, as well as the 50/50 issue. But as long as he fiercely advocates for your cause, it doesn't matter what his private opinion is. Only how he plans to fight for your best interests.

Finally, none of this is fair. It sucks. I had to stop saying "...this is so unfair, I didn't ask for this, why does he get x and y when HE cheated and left his family for OW?" None of that talk ever helped me. Just tell yourself it will be settled one way or another in a year or so, and you will learn to live with it all somehow. Sad but true, lots of people go through this during D, and even worse. They survive it and so will you.

I agree that lawyers should let you know what the potential snags may be, just as a surgeon should discuss the risks and benefits of surgery. But if he sounds totally negative, I'd have to wonder what his problem is. My lawyer was not a gung ho, rah rah type of person. He just calmly laid out the course of action he was suggesting, and also discussed the ways in which my hubby's lawyer would counter. I don't recall him being negative about anything, really. (of course, we don't have minor children and custody issues).

He did tell me that the courts are not interested in who is morally right or wrong. It just boils down to the marital assets, and how they will be divided. This does not mean an equal distribution, either. He listened to my questions, and then explained point by point why we could or couldn't expect a favorable outcome. It really sounded like someone explaining how to play poker. There are rules to the game, but there is also bluffing. Often the lawyers know each other pretty well, from having met many times over divorces, and they often know the other's M.O. already.

Your lawyer would be dangerous if he just spun bright and pretty pictures for you, but then again, he should not be totally negative. If he is not willing to discuss the pros and cons of negotiating, then I'd wonder if he is just burned out and does not care.

Here are a couple of interesting things I have read: An open letter from your lawyer

open letter from a lawyer

and another open letter from a lawyer

Definitely 50/50 isn't for everyone. Heck, even having visitation may not be in the children's best interest. My first XH went for full custody. The court had appointed a lawyer to act on behalf of the child (i.e. they didn't work for either me or XH and simply gave recommendations based on what would be in my son's best interest). In the end, the court awarded me sole custody and ultimate say in IF XH could have visitation and under what circumstances (he screwed up supervised visitation to the extent that even children's aid wouldn't do it). It's more problematic when your ex isn't as psycho as that - and probably many of them are better at not completely making a mockery of the court.

Thank you all for your input. I know everyone talks about how common affairs and divorces are, but I don't know anyone personally going through it right now, so it's really nice to have the input from others who are.

I didn't end up getting a second opinion...YET. I think I may have panicked a bit prematurely.

I decided to hold off for a few reasons. One, I realized that we don't in fact know exactly what my WH will be asking for, so it wouldn't have made sense for my lawyer to spend lots of time working up a case against a 'maybe'. WH's supposed to let us know by June 25 (and to turn in the requested credit card statements he has yet to turn in), and if he doesn't we will file a Motion to Compel.

Second, to be fair to my lawyer, I was actually there that day to talk about fighting the 50/50, which he did focus on and give me ideas how we would go about fighting that.

Third, I have already sunk $5,000 into this lawyer and honestly can't imagine starting over with a new one. Both money-wise and emotional-wise. Now granted, if I feel I need to at some point I won't hesitate to do this.

This has been a very stressful time, both personally and professionally. Lots of changes going on at my job (where I've worked 11 yrs.) and new people in charge who are, frankly, clueless. Something I've always felt very secure in (my employment) is now up in the air. Just like marriage, nothing in life should be taken for granted or assumed to always be there. I'm doing lots of praying right now and trusting God. I know He won't just leave me hanging, but it's still scary.

EllenG, thanks for those letters....very intersting!

Ha Ha! WH just dropped DD off and he said to me, "I'm not trying to evade turning in the credit card statements but it's just been a hassle". I said to him, "Yeah, it's ALL been a big hassle" and shut the door.

Guess that means WH didn't get the statements turned in yesterday like requested. He's had several months! Guess we will now file a motion to compel!!!

Me thinks there must be some pretty incriminating stuff on those credit card statements!!!

WOW..Someone else's WH not answering interrogatories!!! My lawyer has been VERY generous with my WH. He has given him 6 months to answer, and still nothing. He was given an order to compel, but we backed out of it. He was being investigated by the Army and couldn't travel here for court. We gave him another 30 days, during which time he got a lawyer. WH's lawyer sent my lawyer a letter saying he is representing WH now and the interrogatories will be answered shortly. One month later and still nothing. Two days ago, my letter sent a hotly worded letter to WH's lawyer saying he needs to get the information in to us, or he'll file a motion for compliance. My WH told me over 2 months ago that he had most of the interrogatories answered, so what's the hold up?!

WOw! My exWW has pulled the same thing. WHat she did turn in we found out she spent close to $1000 on vet bills for OM's horses. Yet, she was recently found in contempt for failing to pay daycare or medical expenses for the kids. Silly waywards.

Well, my lawyer filed the Motion to Compel on Monday and we're requesting 'reasonable attorney's fees in trying to obtain such discovery'. Does this have any bearing on what the judge thinks, or are they used to it (from the sounds of it, they must be used to it, especially from those trying to hide info.)?

PSU, what will happen to your exWW for being in contempt?

ss409...what IS that WH of yours trying to hide, anyway???

I'm so tired of my WH popping up places that we are and 'hanging out' with us. The other night at my older DD's (from a previous marriage) ball game he showed up unannounced and sat with me and our younger DD. He always acts as if nothing in the world is going on, even tries to make small talk about his job, etc. I'm so uninterested in him and don't want to sit with him and be his buddy.

Then last night he texted me wondering if he could take the girls to a carnival...even though it's my week to have our DD. I told him we already had plans (which we did).

It just is stunning how he has made all these decision about how he wants things to be with visitation but then tries to change the rules when it might benefit him in some way.

SidneyT..That's the big question. If you've seen any of my other post, you know that I am holding off on the divorce in order to obtain the insurance (he's military). He said yesterday, that if my lawyer keeps pushing this, he'll proceed with the divorce. he thinks I'm trying to control him by doing this. That has always been a problem in our marriage, he thinks I control him. Fact is, he's the one who tried to control me. He is so screwed up mentally it's unreal. My fear is if he doesn't comply (I'm sure his lawyer will advise him of that) he could wind up in jail, which I don't want to happen. If it does happen, the Army will get involved and there is a big possibility of us losing everything. The scary part is I don't have a job now, and therefore no way to support my kids.

Well, it seems my WH is still trying to decide what he feels he's entitled to from my house (this was my home prior to the marriage). His lawyer has now requested mortgage information from me dating back to the year we married.

And today I learned that he has gone out and bought DD (age 7) a cell phone. Please tell me what a 7-year-old possibly needs with a cell phone??? I resent that he's spoiling her rotten (she's getting more difficult to manage when she doesn't get her way when she's with me) and now I have had no input whatsoever over getting her a phone, something that I find completely indulgent and ridiculous for a 7-year-old.

I heard from my lawyer today that WH is asking for approx. $25,000 for his 1/2 of the equity of my house.

I'm still baffled at how something that is and always has been MY property (my house prior to the marriage, my name has been the only name to ever be on the house) could be fair game for him.

The thought of having to cut him a check for that much given what HE has done just leaves me reeling.

I SO look forward to this being over.

I hear you, ST.

My WH is not providing credit card statements, retirement account status, pay stubs, tax return -- you name it!

This is where the rubber hits the road -- when reality kicks in.
FINANCES.

Susie Orman said today "Women fake organisms. Men fake finances." She was on the Kathy Griffin show so this isn't a message she would convey on her regular program.

Anyway, my WH is balking -- even though HE FILED -- because he doesn't want his sins shown for all the world to see. He's been subpoenaed to provide records, his attorney throws in distractions here and there -- ANYTHING to keep from having to produce records.

Bottomline is that "avoiding the facts doesn't change the facts."

I'm just amazed how our justice system works. Like it's OKAY to not produce documents. It's OKAY to drag out proceedings wasting money. It's OKAY to ignore orders. I WANT to see my WH dragged away in handcuffs. Maybe jail time with a rather LARGE cell mate might wake him up from this fantasy.

As for your WH wanting equity in your house -- if the house is your separate property obtained prior to your marriage -- you should be able to keep it as separate property. You just need to disclose this. If he helped pay some of the mortgages -- I don't know about that.

Just keep your wit about you. Find whatever records you need. Check his credit report. Snoop in his current credit cards using the 1-800 numbers. Treat this as a job.

Thanks Holyheart- I couldn't agree more about being amazed at our so called 'justice system'. Interesting comment by Suze O. too.

The latest thing my WH is doing is trying to paint me in an unfavorable light in the Discovery papers. Little comments he's made like, "She's claimed she has no debt other than the mortgage, however I believe she does have debt".

Well, I do not have debt and I would not ever lie about such a thing, especially in court papers.

The other thing he's said is that HE's the one that always takes DD to the doctor. This is a blatant LIE. Seemingly small and unimportant, but it's a lie all the same. He took her to the last appointment she's had, and that's about it.

I see my lawyer next week and our court date is less than two weeks away now...so things are coming to a head.

I was able to produce documents that showed the $50,000 down payment I made on MY house when I bought it before I was married, so I hope this has some kind of bearing on the judgement as to how much he should get, if any.

And my poor DD (age 7) is so incredibly spoiled and over-indulged by a guilty father that she's becoming very unpleasant to be around. It's hard to 'undo' one week's worth of spoiling in the short week I have her. He's not doing her any favors at all.

I don't know how the law works in your state. My lawyer told me all my ex "could" ask for was half of what was spent on the house out of joint funds. Another words community money that was spent on the house, not equity since I own the house outright. He didn't ask for it but he could have. Wonder what your lawyer says about it. What is his half of any mortgage payments or improvements made throughout the marriage out of joint monies?

Not that I think he should get one red cent of anything involving your house that is yours.

Well I'm days away from my final court hearing (Thurs.).

I really hate to whine about stuff but I cannot help but believe I am getting completely skewered in this divorce.

I am to pay WH $27,000 for equity in MY home. I find this so hard to swallow. He never owned the home, yet he's entitled to 1/2 the equity?

He may be entitled to more $$$ because he feels the stuff in our house was unfairly divided by 3 to 1 (his choice, he walked out and didn't want anything but his clothes and books). My house was fully furnished before we were married so I can't understand why he would be entitled to $$$ from my stuff.

He pays $14 a month for his health insurance. I pay nearly $400 for mine and our daughter's health insurance. I feel he should provide her health insurance because we have similar salaries, yet I pay so much more a month on ins.

He is getting his truck, which I paid the payments for for years.

Again, I don't see how I am getting anything out of this divorce except for $27,000 poorer.

Am I missing something or is this just how divorce goes?

Hey Sidney,

I guess it depends upon the state. I would think that any assets (or liabilities) acquired prior to the M, or any acquired after the spouse moves out, would be owned by the acquirer.

Sorry that the division isn't as equitable as it could have been.

TBC

Thanks for the reply, TBC.

The twists and turns continue in this D case. I asked my WH last night (via text) how much money he felt he was entitled to from my home and he said, "Zip". I clarified this by saying, "You mean you are not asking me to pay you any money for my house or otherwise in court on Thurs.?" And he said, "Correct".

Now this morning he mentioned that his mom, who is a retired Child Psychologist, will be attending court on Thurs. and when I asked if she was testifying he said, "If she does testify it will be to stress the strong bond DD and I have".

Should I be concerned about this? My lawyer just assured me that our judge dislikes 50-50 and that last week his client (a dad) lost his request for 50-50.

Would the court consider a grandma as an 'expert witness'??? Do I need to get an expert witness?

Hey Sidney, so sorry you're having to go through all this. As far as grandma testifying as an expert? I don't think so. For one, it would be a HUGE conflict of interest as to bias. Your attorney should object loud and often if they try to pull that. As a grandmother (and fact witness), she can certainly testify as to the strong bond her son has with his daughter but I would think her testimony would only be limited to that.

As soon as the other attorney started trying to "qualify" her as an expert by asking about her background and expertise, I would start objecting.

It wouldn't hurt for you to have your own expert but to what issue?

ETA: If you're only days away from trial, all expert witnesses should have been disclosed 30 days prior to trial. They can't just say, "Surprise! By the way, grandma's also an expert." Same goes for you too unfortunately, if you haven't named an expert before now, you can't bring one in at the last minute, unless it's for rebuttal testimony.

This is all dependant on your state's statutes but generally this is the way civil law works.

Thank you princessmeggy. I really appreciate your input.

I just got off the phone and WH's lawyer just informed my lawyer that if I don't agree to the 50-50 then WH will be asking for primary custody, as both WH and his Child Psychologist mother think it's in DD's best interest.

This is becoming like a bad Lifetime movie. How in the world could things come to this? Please tell me there is no real chance of him ever getting primary custody of a little girl away from her mother and only sister?

I have a co-worker/friend who's a Psychaitrist who works with children (M.D.) who knows both me and WH and he just told me he would testify on my behalf (as to my bond with DD and to how damaging he thinks 50-50 would be. He's also familiar with my WH abusing Ambien and destroying our computer in order to get rid of incriminating evidence on it), but it sounds like he wouldn't be able to, is that right?

My lawyer also wants my mom to come to court to testify (she has been DD's childcare provider since birth).

I am trying really hard not to panick but I am completely terrified right now at what this has come to.

Seems to me that it's a little late for WH to be attempting to ask for primary custody when you're only days away from trial. This will be the final trial, right? WH's mother can say all she wants but the Judge will only give it so much weight. How can she give an unbiased opinion? She can't!

Don't let your WH's threats scare you. The Judge's priority will be what's in the best interest of your child, but they also like to see the parties work out an agreement prior to trial. If they can't agree, that's why they have a trial. Okay? It is unlikely that the Judge would award him primary custody if you don't agree to 50/50. What is more likely, is that the Judge will award 50/50, unless you can prove that he is unstable, etc. Sounds like you can.

Grandma's just butting in. Actually, my single daughter just went through a custody dispute with her boyfriend over my two grandchildren. He had beaten my daughter and a protective order was in place. I couldn't believe how hard HIS momma fought to get 50/50 for her son. The Judge wasn't buying it though and he ended up with supervised visitation (with his Mom's supervising). That was kinda wacked but at least the Judge didn't buy momma's BS that it was all a mistake or the lies that they try to tell about my daughter.

Have faith in your attorney. Let your mom come and testify. She's counter to what his mom has to say. The sad thing in Family Law is that it's mostly he said, she said.

Has a home study been done?

So all your lawyer has to say is to have your mom come and testify? What does he/she have to say about the custody proposal? Frankly, I think it's merely a ploy in order to secure the best deal possible, but I'm no F. Lee Bailey (or Judge Wapner, or Judge Rheinhold)....

"Best interest of the children" seems to be a common goal when it comes to determining custody arrangements. Your lawyer should understand on what grounds he would make his case, and why your case is stronger.

He can ask for primary custody just as much as I can ask every MB poster to send me a thousand bucks. Sure as heck doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

I'm sorry things are getting dicey. Lean on your lawyer. That's what they're paid to do -- to help and support their clients through an emotionally charged process.

TBC

Princessmeggy- No, we didn't do a home study. WH originally wanted every other weekend and one day during the week during school(which I agreed to), then he wanted 50-50 over the summer (which I agreed to, as long as DD kept the same child care), then he decided he wanted year-round 50-50 and now he's throwing in the primary custody. He's tried to call the shots since day 1 and I keep foolishly believing we have reached an agreement and then he changes his mind yet again.

And when you say I could prove he's unstable, do I do this by telling about destroying our computer, abusing Ambien (taking 7 times the prescribed amount and then driving with our kids) and smoking pot? There was also a time years ago when he was being incredibly emotionally/verbally abusive to me that I called a domestic abuse shelter and met with a lady from there in the parking lot where I worked for some guidance. Would that kind of stuff be what I would use?

Interesting about your own experience with Grandma butting in, I guess that's only normal. I know my WH's mom really wants to maintain a relationship with DD. Glad your grandkids have supervised visits, sounds like you and your DD went through a nightmare!

Thank you!

TBC- my lawyer told WH's lawyer that we would not agree to the 50-50.

My lawyer said we'd try to make our case on the fact that WH up and left and moved out of town, and DD's school is about 45 minutes away from WH's apartment now. She would be in a completely different town.

The other argument is that she would be separated from her sister (my DD from previous marriage).

The other argument is that his job requires him to be gone late at night at times (quite often) which would require DD to be with strangers a lot of the time.

I'm trying to have faith in my lawyer, however this is the same guy that just had the agreement written up saying I would pay WH $27,000 without even knowing exactly what WH was even asking for. Thankfully, I asked WH last night and he told me he wanted no $. That text I sent asking him that ? saved me over 25 grand!! I wonder why my lawyer did that.

Thank you!

It's over!!!

WH went into court saying if he did not get the 50-50 he was asking for then he wanted primary custody of DD. He got neither. I got primary and he got every other weekend, as well as one overnight during the week.

I am so relieved it's over. So relieved.

I didn't have to pay him any $$$ and my DD doesn't have to be torn from town to town away from her sister and home.

WH brought in DD's teacher from last year (boy was I surprised to see her in court today) and he also had his 'child psychologist' mom testify. And, get this, he had OW (at least the person who has been suspect #1) testify because she babysat for DD on several occasions!!!

He brought his mommy and his girlfriend to be his "expert" witnesses????

What a maroon!

A good day in court is a minor miracle... congrats!

LOL, my thoughts exactly!

OW-suspect-#1 is really young and actually used the word 'awesome' on the stand at one point when she was testifying. I wonder if the judge was as impressed with her as I was??? (not)

And thanks for the congrats, Antichick!

Good for you, SidneyT!

It always sounded like he had nothing to base his custody request off of, nor his money request. Sometimes things actually do work out.

Sid,
I'm so happy to hear the months of anxiety are over.
I decided today was the day I would catch up with your thread and started it from the beginning some time this am. Throughout the course of the morning I would read a few posts. Then, low and behold, at the end I was able to see the great news. It was like a little mini-drama for the day with a happy ending.

What a haul it's been for you.

~opt~

Hi SydneyT

I've just found your posts

I am in a very similar situation, except my sons are 18 & 21 in October, so don't have the visitation problem - just the Support Issue

If you have alook at my posts, I have a list of all the things I've done to protect my boys and I

Being Threatened - Please Help
Post Name: DragonFire

Maybe some of the points might help you.
But legally, I'm in Africa and fall under the Commonwealth Law, but I think the principals for preparing for your Settlement would be the same or similar.

My WH hasn't responded to the Attorneys Letters, so now we go to summons

Let me know if this helps you

You're right. I credit it all to prayer and God...don't know how people get through this kind of thing without having faith!

Thanks schtoop!

You're right optimism. Never dreamed my life would turn into a mini-drama, but it sure did. I guess all of our lives have, thanks to those selfish waywards. Thanks for the kind words and I hope you get your own happy ending soon too!

DragonFire- what forum are your posts under? Let me know and I'll have a look! Thanks!

Another really amazing thing that has happened concerns my job. I had mentioned a while back and that they were doing some 'restructuring' of my department and I was incredibly stressed out by the possibility of getting what basically could amount to a demotion. Money was a little tight already since WH walked out so this really added to the stress level.

I actually ended up getting a promotion and am now the Director! Nice raise included. As a bonus, the lady that had the position before me was very mean and vindictive and had been a source of stress for the entire 10 + years I'd worked there and she suddenly retired and is GONE!

Again, this is all a total God thing. He has not failed to amaze me and He has definitely worked out for good what was meant for my harm AND He has given me 'double for my trouble' as He promised He would.

Surviving an Affair
Being Threatened - Please help

I'm fairly new to this site, so I'm not sure how you get there

For Sale: Platinum and Diamond wedding band/engagement ring set....cheap!

Seriously, does anyone know where you get the best deal for selling a used wedding ring? E-Bay? Pawn Shop?

The real question is what your going to do with the money ??????

Something cool.... or something the WH would hate you spending the money on....

There's so many options......

Gives the mind something to work on ..... let us know

Oooh, great question stillcommitted!

After giving it some thought, I think I'd use the money to take my kids and myself on a really cool vacation- maybe to Disney because we've (the kids and I) always wanted to go.

The deeper significance of that is that my WH was always so selfish he only took himself on vacations and never wanted to do family vacations. This way he's finally paying for a family vacation for us!!!

As the waiter on the cruise I went on a couple of years ago (courtesy of the benevolent father-in-law )with the family would say

EXCELLENT CHOICE !!!! that was always his response no matter what I ordered....

I couldn't think of a better way to spend the money ....Disney sounds great, we took our kids out of school and went in October, no lines and cool weather !!!! was a great trip ...

Sidney...I was just looking at the recent post and saw yours...its funny, I was thinking of selling my wedding ring set for a trip to Disney for me and DS...Its sooooo worth it...It is a wonderful trip. We went last year and cant wait (or afford) to go back. I dont know where to sell my rings either so sorry I have no tips on that....Good luck.

Hi SidneyT

I'm NOT selling my ring - The main Sapphire stone was my 21st birthday present from my parents.

But he can even HAVE( give back) the 14karat band - he could get $50 for it I suppose - or maybe not, it is old.
Oh I know! an Antique!