Hi All...

Just want some input. I've been divorced for 3 years. Not by my choice...
He met soul mate "number 5" and moved out...

But as I am starting to rebuild my life and review my past
marriage... I was wondering what I can learn from this experience. It is
easy just to blame other party... And heck with 5 confirmed who would blame me for the easy out... And say it is all his fault

However, the experience has truly scarred me. I am terrified to even date etc... Because of the experience...I worry if my picker is broken... Any thoughts ... Anyone been in this situation ?

Definitely educate yourself.

That's the best way to educate your picker.

Get the book "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders" it is an excellent resource.

Read this until you get the book.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Thanks so much... I love this site... Only wish I had found it years ago

Hi Kendall, I don't have a lot of time now....there's more I would like to say but I will come back later.

Quickly wanted to ask: I saw you started a thread late last year re the problems you were having with xWH and you were advised to go into Plan B so that you could really begin healing. What happened with that?

You may ask, what does this have to do with the questions I asked in this thread?

I don't think you will do well dating if you are still dealing with constant tense communications and triggering. I actually have a very good friend who D'd her WH over five years ago (he ended up marrying the OW) and she has never dated, partially I believe because she stuck because she has remained in contact (only email) with her ex.

It is good to work on your picker before venturing back into the dating world. I was married to a serial cheater too....oddly enough I was not afraid to date and I ended up with a great man. I made a list of qualities and I only decided to marry my current dh when he met those conditions.

I never went plan b with my xh...we have a civil relationship. I would love to never see or speak to him again but we have a child together and our ds13 does MUCH better when his dad and I can be civil.

here


People that wisely go into Plan B avoid all this toxic interaction and have much better mental health.

Be honest, are you addicted to your XH and this is why you hang on so tight? I just see a woman who has avoided Plan B all these years because she is desperately hanging onto a long dead corpse. Why would you choose to live like this? It is so unnecessary.

Kendall, I agree 100% with Susie about Plan B. You will find a great difference in your mental health if you go into Plan B. I am the intermediary for 2 such women and the peace of mind and positive outlook they get from Plan B is immense. They are like different women. I am divorced from my XH and since in Plan B, it is like a black cloud lifted from my skies.

And just think, if you go into Plan B you can avoid the type of toxic interactions SmilingWoman described in her recent posts.

As far as your picker, you can get enormous support from this forum when it comes to dating.

This type of statement makes it sound as if the BS needs to "rise above it" and have a goal to be civil to their xWS. I don't know if that's what you meant but.....

SW, I went back and read Kendall's first thread. Here's what she said:


But she never came back to update us on what she ended up doing with parallel parenting/Plan B. She is not civil with her ex.

Kendall, just so that you know this is very normal for a BS. I recently spoke to Dr Harley and told him that I was experiencing stress due to tense communications with xWH and that I started to use an IM (even though now we use an email system recommended to us by the judge) and he emphatically told me he fully agreed with that course of action (use of an IM).

here

This is what you want for Kendall?

I found an excellent radio clip from Dr. Harley of why it's a good idea to go into Plan B after divorce. Tell me what you think.
Radio clip on Plan B after Divorce at 5:25 mark

Kendall,

BTW did you ever expose the OW your WH was seeing, part of the way you fight evil is to do good, do this by informing the OWHs.

God Bless
Gamma

Kendall, Plan B will most definitely help you with your healing and your ability to be able to weed through the trash when you are fully ready to date. Of course you are going to be gunshy out of the gate, we'd have to have a different talk with you if you weren't, but you will have the BEST chance at finding someone who really suits you, at the right time, if you allow yourself to heal fully.

I have 2 boys myself, and I haven't spoken or seen my WH in 3 years. Guess what, the kids understand the reasons behind it, and they see that I do this to enforce MY boundaries, and they will hopefully learn to enforce boundaries themselves when they get older.

I would strongly suggest Plan B, as a person who has seen the benefits firsthand.

If you have never been in Plan B or done PP, then you don't know how ds13 would do if you just eliminated the tension/problems that come from trying to force a "civil" relationship, SW.

This is not just "Plan B" thing. Have you read my parallel parenting post? They discussed this at length in my divorcing parenting class that you are required to take in my state -- they don't encourage forcing a civil relationship at all and the studies back this up. Keep in mind that this advice was for regular divorcing folks -- not even taking into consideration all the emotions/triggers that are involved when one spouse engaged in an affair and is still with the OP following D.


My children like Scotland's understand my boundaries with xWH and have NEVER expressed a desire for me to "have a civil relationship" with their father. Parallel parenting has had NO NEGATIVE effects on them whatsoever. In fact, I think the fact that they are doing as well as they are is attributed to the fact that Plan B/PP has helped me be as whole and emotionally healthy as I could be under the circumstances!

kendall, one other thing...

How old is your DD?

In case you didn't know... Dr Harley did a radio show where he encourages single mothers of young children to stay single until the children are "grown".

The reasons that he cites is that blended families have a very high rate of problems/divorce and he basically says that you could be introducing a whole set of new problems to your situation.

I don't want to discourage you from dating though, but having your guard up and taking it slow especially when involving the children I think is a great idea.

Hope you are still with us!

There seems to be some confusion on what I am referring to as civil. When I say I have a civil relationship it means I can communicate drop off pick up details, what the doctor had to say about our son, what his grades are etc. via email or text. And we can say hello and goodbye at drop off and pick ups. Toward the end of last year I had gotten lax on keeping the conversations civil he had sucked me into a few conversations and that does cause distress to me. When I say my son does better when we are civil....he has been very upset the few times I've refused to even say a word to wxh.

Wxh and I are not friends and we never will be. But there are many many people that I don't wish to be friends with that I can carry on necessary business.

What would be the purpose of dating?
If you met someone that was meeting emotional needs you would fall in love with the person.
If the intent as to remain single until the kids are grown dating isn't really an option

Psychologists have studied this issue and found that conflict causes health problems.
I have not seen or spoken to my ex wife since day of divorce.
I'm very glad.

I agree that conflict causes health problems. It is why I found myself getting so upset when I let down my barrier with wxh a few months back. I feel no distress now though when I keep things strictly business.

As you can see from your own experience, you and your H still get sucked into fights. All of these issues can easily be communicated via an intermediary and you could avoid the trauma.

Going into Plan B would make you a better parent. Your son would do much better if you would just shut it off. That way all the tension would be avoided.

I think you are just so used to being in an unhealthy place mentally that it has become a way of life. I seriously wonder if you aren't addicted to the man and just can't let go. Despite enormous tension and despair with this man, you cling to him as if you were clinging to a life raft.

This is a man who made you so sick that you were having bad dreams just a couple of months ago. He has been your worst nightmare so I don't believe it doesn't affect your mental and physical health. It clearly HAS according to your posts.

There is no barrier. You are still in touch with him. A barrier would be to cut off contact entirely.

But I predict you will fight cutting him out with all your life. I honestly don't think I have EVER seen a BS that clinged to her XWH with such tenacity. You can't seem to let him go.

LOL. I don't think texting, 'meet you at Wal-Mart at 5:15 for drop off of ds13' or sending an email with a copy of his test scores is 'clinging to him with tenacity.'

And I don't have to 'fight' anyone about how I handle my XH. It works fine for me.

It sounds like the reason he would be upset is because he knows there is tension or a conflict between the two of you.

Plan B/PP would avoid this altogether and has, in fact, in my case. From my Parallel Parenting in Plan B post:


My kids don't question or know anything about my interaction with their father. And they are doing very well!

True. Now that there is no tension ds13 is much happier.


That is great Susie. Glad they are doing so well. My ds13 is doing great too.

But, you do. You protect your contact with him tenaciously. It wasn't working fine for you a couple of months ago. Frankly, I wonder how anyone can maintain their mental health this way. That is like the rape victim staying in touch with the rapist. I don't see how that is healthy for you or your son.

SW, if you want to remain in contact with your ex, that's fine with me. I am not going to argue with you.

What I do take issue with is when you write something like the above to a poster who is getting advice regarding still struggling with triggering/stressful communications, it reads as a dig to those of us who are in Plan B or using PP.

Again, I am not sure what your purpose in writing what you wrote was if not to encourage the OP to just "learn" to be civil with her ex.

As you have admitted yourself, this hasn't been easy for you, your son HAS BEEN subjected to conflict, and you have a 30+ (?) page thread regarding communications with your xH. So to me at least, your advice to this OP seems somewhat stilted, not to mention it is not consistent with what Dr H advises for divorced folks in this OP's situation.

I replied to a poster. The rest of this thread has been to attack me and to attempt to prove to me that being civil is not working for me. Since I feel fine, my ds is fine and neither of us are stressed out I naturally want to correct a post that says I am NOT doing well.

If people are stressed out by any direct communication with their WX then certainly they can try Plan B and see if they feel better. It has clearly worked for a lot of people. And I have repeatedly said I see the merits of limiting contact to strictly business...but unless I say, 'Plan B is the only way!' I get attacked.

>>It wasn't working fine for you a couple of months ago.>>

I wasn't being just civil, or business only, a few months ago. And I agreed I wasn't doing well, so I went back to being civil and business only. I am not sure what is so confusing about that. I agree that letting him suck me into a conversation is harmful to me. So I don't allow that.

My purpose was to encourage the OP. It wasn't to encourage her to try and be civil. In a later post I clarified what *I* mean by being civil...a text on drop off or pick up day to verify time and place. An email to show XH dh's grades or results of doctor visits. I do not believe that sort of very limited interaction with an X is in conflict with Dr. Harley's advise. Ds13 has his own phone now and WXH contacts him directly, so there is very little that I need to speak to WXH about.

No one has "attacked" you, only pointed out that your own method doesn't even work for you. As long as you continue to recommend that stressed out posters don't go into Plan B, I think its only fair to post how badly that advice has worked out for you.

When you post things like this it really makes me wonder if you want to put others through the same unnecessary hell you have subjected yourself to all these years. All anyone has to do is go read your tons of posts about the unpleasant dealings with your husband over the years. And the endless "reasons" why you can't go into Plan B.

I will make sure that posters understand how badly this has worked for you and that there is a better way. I do that because I really care for the people who come here.

That kind of contact is in conflict with Dr Harley's advice when it is clear that a person should be in Plan B. They can avoid all the hostile, stressful interaction you have endured for years. I will point them to your 30 page thread going back years that documents all the hostility.

Completely unnecessary, by the way.

And that is why I respond...because you make false claims about MY life. You are taking what was going on in my life when I was still engaging in conversations and arguments and fights with him and trying to say 'see being civil doesn't work.' When I stopped arguing with him and when I stopped having chit chat conversations with him (became business only and civil) it does work.


I am not recommending stressed out posters don't go in to Plan B. I agree that less contact is better...and if any poster thinks they need Plan B I fully support that.

I haven't endured years of hostility. My 30 page thread doesn't document years. I was remarried with a year of being divorced and by then I had learned to stop interacting with him in a way that caused me stress. Lots of good advice on this board helped me get to the point where I didn't get engaged in conversations that harmed me.

Yes, being "civil" doesn't work because you have no control over your husband. You have proven that yourself. No one said anything "false" about you. I simply posted your own quotes. We can see how it has worked out for you. If you want to spin it that is fine. But everyone can see how horrible it has been for you all these years.

Have you ever considered why you have this need to hang onto your XH so badly?

How is posting Dr. Harley's advice/concepts/plans attacking you?

We have your posts from 3 months ago that show this to be false. Shall I post them again? You were advised to go into Plan B years ago and you ignored that advice. Hence, posts like this:

You keep claiming being civil isn't working for me...then you give examples of my life when I was NOT being just civil...THAT is spinning.

I text XH pick up drop off details. Give him education and health information as it comes up. We will just have to disagree that indicates I 'have a need to hang on to him so badly.'

Fyi, I don't see Susie, indiegirl, reading, or Scotland making posts like this. You might want to consider that.

I gave examples of your EX-HUSBAND not being civil. You have no control over that. Never have, never will. So, of course, it doesn't work for you. You posted the evidence.


Then why won't you let that long dead corpse go? Why are you hanging on for dear life?

Ok, thank you for looking all that up and summing up what I've already said several times in this thread. I went out of minimum contact while attempting to avoid going to court and went BACK to minimum contact when I saw how it was harmful to me. And as I have said repeated, mimimum contact works for me.

As I said I don't agree that I am hanging on to a corpse by having minimum contact with my ds's father about drop off and pick up.

That's fine, you don't have to concoct far reaching rationalizations for me. It is your life, not mine.

I am sure you don't agree.

I really don't understand why you didn't just say this to her to begin with if that's how you really feel??

It was pointed out in my 1st post to the OP that her last thread had been regarding conflict and the stress she was experiencing with her xWH. She has been divorced for three years now and she is still going through this. You followed up with this:


This doesn't read anything like what you are now saying.

You don't mention anything about the fact that you feel your xWH is rude and bashes you, and you don't say anything about the fact that you have had to cut back to absolute minimum "business-like" contact in order to keep it civil. You have now changed your terminology of having a "civil relationship" to you need to keep it to "minimum contact".

I am sorry you feel attacked but I am surprised you can't acknowledge the inconsistencies that are going on here. I don't know if you are in denial or just really anti-Plan B after D or what?

I am not anti Plan B and I don't think I am in denial. I saw pages back that my 'civil' was being misunderstood, so I tried repeatedly to explain what I mean by civil. Thus adding other terms like minimum and business only. But as has been said to me MANY times, I am NOT in Plan B, so I said that up front in my post to avoid anyone thinking I was a Plan Ber...and yet even though I am not Plan B I do see the benefits of very minimal contact.

Methinks somebody is in serious denial here.

I don't see much of a difference in the two posts. Maybe that's because I, too, maintain minimum (civil) contact with my ex regarding our son.

Kendall, I hope you are still here reading these... And I'm sorry if it seems like everyone is being real mean; I think it's just because we all feel strongly about our lives and hate to see someone make mistakes that seem so obvious to us.

I was definitely scared to date again, because I didn't do so well the first time even though I did everything I was taught was "right" (wait for marriage, wait til you got out of school, date a couple years, etc). And I still ended up marrying a man who almost destroyed my physical and mental health.

Reading through this site and going through some after divorce courses (I'm hesitant to list even though I didn't see an MB have a post-divorce program on the website since we're not supposed to list outside resources) really helped me realign myself and get my head screwed on straight.

One thing I would add is to look at why you don't to let him take any of the blame. When I read your post I felt like you were taking all the blame. Am I reading you right? Even if you were a bad wife, the blame wouldn't ALL be yours. I can understand looking at your errors, cleaning up your side of the street, but have you also put blame on him where it is rightfully due?

Wish you the best!

DTC

Actually there is a huge difference because she was using her own situation as a model, which is to avoid Plan B at all cost. You might have "civil" communications with your XH but she does not. Divorced people are rarely "civil" and not SW - or anyone else - has any control over that.

When people come here with this problem, the MB answer is to recommend Plan B. That is so clearly the best path that it just can't be argued. Anyone who would argue against it clearly doesn't care about the poster and I think that is obvious here.

No one cares if a person does or doesn't go into Plan B after divorce, but when a new poster in need has this problem, we need to be giving her MB advice, and not tortured personal "solutions" that don't even work for ourselves. That is not fair to anyone coming here seeking help. After all, the sign on the door says "Marriage Builders."


It is mean to give people bad advice, especially when that advice does not even work for yourself. People feel very strongly about bad advice being given to unsuspecting posters. That is not fair to anyone.

Again, yes I do. I have not had civil communications every second of the 4 years since D day, but I have had most of the past 2 years. Yes, there have been a few times since then when I let my guard down and didn't keep it minimal or civil or whatever, but yes I do maintain a civil relationship with my XH. And I have NEVER been against Plan B at all cost. You are again misrepresenting me.

But your words don't match your actions. We can see your communications for ourselves, SW. They are not civil, nor do you have any control over that. Having "minimal" contact does not prevent your husband from being uncivil. And yes, you have always been against Plan B.

You see the times I have let my guard down and posted that I was upset by him when I tried to be something other than civil/minimal/business like. Naturally I don't post the boring civil business like interactions that comprise the majority of our interactions for the last 2 years. And of course I can't control my XH but he stays civil when I keep the interactions minimal and business like.

And No I have never been against Plan B. I am against the strong arming that I have witnessed on this board when someone chooses to not do Plan B. But I am not against Plan B. I see that it has worked for many people. And that is great.

Strangely, we don't see posts like that from those in Plan B. They are not "upset" by their X's because they don't have contact. What I do see is a woman who imagines she can control her XH's behavior and just can't let go.


Yet you encouraged the very distraught starter of this thread to maintain "minimal contact" by posting your own experience. Of course you didn't tell her how bad it has really been. Which is very typical of you.

Let's please keep this thead on track! We are here to promote Marriage Builders concepts. If you cannot support this poster with Marriage Builders concepts, please refrain from posting!

Thanks MBSeasons! Sorry for the threadjack, Kendall, I thought it was important for you to see the downside of not following MB concepts. It is not pretty!

EDIT

So sorry! We were posting at the same time.

Hinting to someone who is struggling with issues related to communicating the ex (three years post D I might add) that maintaining contact and being "civil" for the sake of the children is the exact opposite of encouraging Plan B.

It is actually an anti-PB/PP sentiment -- because children do "better" when the parents are emotionally healthy and the children are not being subjected to conflict/tension etc.

One of the frustrating parts of going into Plan B for me were these types of comments I received from people. I posted about this in the parallel parenting thread:


In fact, my uncle my uncle said this to me. This same uncle who divorced his WW several years before me and during the D process had an altercation with his WW wherein the police were called to the house -- all in front of the children. This same uncle who years after the D still will complain on and on and on about his xWW to anyone who will listen. Because he has to maintain contact for the sake of the children? Old school thinking. This is exactly what they taught in us about PP during our divorce class.

Kendall, if you are still with us, no one is trying to be "mean" as has been suggested. Sometimes topics can get heated, and the reason some of us in Plan B are pretty passionate about it is because we have been on BOTH sides and know how much peace and relief and healing it can bring.