Hello all! I am new here. My husband and I are both 27 and have been married for 3 years. We also have a 3 year old daughter. We have been separated 4 months going on 5 here soon. This is the second time he has left me...he left in January as well and came back in mid Feb. Our relationship has always been tumultuous...if you want those details I can give them to you. Anyways...my husband has been living at his parents house for the past 4 months and has said he wants a divorce the entire time. He has not filed...he says he wants us to do it together as cheaply and peacefully as possible. He tells me that he has filled out his paperwork but I have yet to see it. We don't talk very much other than to exchange our daughter. He was very unkind and disrespectful to me until I agreed to sit down and visit with him about the divorce process. How do I fix this? Is it fixable? He acts as if he wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole and when he looks at me I don't notice anything like he is attracted to me or has any type of feelings for me other than hatred. How do I turn this thing around?????

Welcome to MB. What is the reason he gives you about leaving?

What do you mean when you say tumultuous?

Well there are always two perspectives in a relationship but it has always seemed to some degree that we disagree a great deal. The biggest thing for me is that even when we were first dating my husband never really put me or our relationship first and he is a chronic liar. It has always felt like our family and relationship come second to his social life. He cheated on me when we were dating but never admitted to it until this last winter. He lies a lot and has always been sneaky about his phone, etc... Also, he says that he only started lying because of the way I reacted to him when he did tell me the truth but I think that is just him trying to manipulate me and make me feel bad because throughout the years I have found out about lots of things that he lied to me about when we were dating and I didn't freak out about things back then...I didn't even know that things were going on because I never thought to second guess him. Why would you need to lie to someone you say you love and want to spend the rest of your life with? He always seems eager to go do something with the boys but won't do anything with me. Anyways...the lying and whatnot really got to me and made me very angry and resentful towards him. We were just in this vicious cycle for a long time. He left saying that we are just not right for each other, and that if it was supposed to have worked out it would have already. I have no idea if he is having an affair....he hasn't admitted to one and I haven't seen or heard anything around town but I'm definitely not saying that he isn't. It feels like in our relationship all of the "love busters" or things that could go wrong are indeed wrong...but yet here I am still trying to figure out a way to get things to work.

Zanadoo, unless your husband is willing to make a radical change in his approach to being a husband, he is not marriage material. A husband who lies, is sneaky and independent is a nightmare. You can't create a marriage with someone who has a secret second life. It seems pretty obvious to the objective observer that he is having an affair and has probably had several.

Would he be willing to make radical changes in his lifestyle that would support a marriage? I would guess not. You are much better off getting out of this marriage. His behavior would destroy any relationship and very possibly your mental health.

Here is how you save your marriage. Will he agree to everything on this list?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Hello all! I am back...My relationship is in the same situation. My husband says he wants to get a divorce but has not filed and it has been 7 months that we have been separated. I don't want to file and don't feel that God wants me to. But it just seems like we have been in limbo land forever. My husband says he is done and wants a divorce and as far as I know has not made any attempts or progression towards growing and changing for the better. What should I do?

So you're saying I should divorce him?

Zanadoo, I lingered in a horrible marriage for many years over this. Only after it was all over with did I understand things more clearly and realize that my feelings from before were not aligned with the full counsel of Scripture. I realized that my previous feeling of entrapment had nothing to do with Scripture or with God.

Is there a particular Scripture that you are struggling with or is it just a sense on your part?

Dr. Harley's methods are actually very Scriptural. Although initially there may be some verses that seem to contradict him, when you put together a fuller context of the Lord's teachings about relationships you can very clearly see how those verses relate to additional context and how closely Dr. Harley's methods align with Scripture.

What would be Dr. Harley's approach in my situation??

You never answered MelodyLane's two posts, about your husband having an affair.

You will get more help here if you address the posts that people have taken the trouble to make to you.

My husband isn't having an affair.

He isn't having an affair and he left me. I found out today that he filed so I guess that is my answer right there?

How do you know that?

How do you know?

I really don't know that he isn't having an affair but I don't think he is. He has filed for divorce as of the 29th. He is not willing to work on anything pertaining to our relationship. I don't want to end my marriage so what is it that I should do? I know that I can't make him come back to me I guess I am asking what do I do for myself and any potential that our marriage could be saved? Does anyone get what I'm saying?

You need to find out the name of the woman he is having the affair with, and expose them both at their workplace, if that's where he met her, and also expose him to your close family and friends, and her husband if she has one.

If he won't end the affair immediately on exposure, and withdraw the divorce petition, you need to let him finish his affair with her. Once you have exposed, have nothing to do with him until and unless he begs you to take him back.

He is having an affair, whether you believe it or not. You cannot get your marriage back until the affair ends, and you might be able to speed up the ending by exposing the fact that it is taking place. You cannot expose until you find out who is involved, so start finding that out.

I don't think he is having an affair I think he is heavily into porn. I know I sound like a crazy lady saying that my husband isn't having an affair but I don't think he is. How would I expose him? How do I not talk to him with us having a small child together?

So this is where you should start. Decide if he is having an affair based on actual facts and evidence. This is too important to base decisions based on wild guesses and speculation.


Instructions in my link.


Any pertinent information would be conveyed through a 3rd party.

As for an affair...I have checked phone records and there is nothing. Friends and family have not mentioned sightings of him with anyone else. He has said there isn't anyone else verbally to me. I did catch him about two months ago talked to a girl via text but he has since stopped as I exposed that one. He left about 7 months ago and is living at his parents. I think I told my story earlier in my thread.

As for exposing him...where is this link? Can I get it from you again if at all possible? Pretty much everyone in town knows that we are separated and probably getting a divorce and that I don't want it.

So I am to follow the plan B guidelines? What is the purpose of the 3rd party person? How should I act? Can someone send me an outline?

Here is the exposure thread Exposure 101

Can you hire a PI to confirm if he is having an affair or not? You really need to rule out an affair.

And here is the Plan B thread.

How to Plan B Correctly

Regardless of if he is having an affair or not does that change what route I am supposed to take? Can marriages that are in a state such as mine really be saved? What should I do if he is having an affair? What should I do if he isn't? I know he is addicted to porn is that like an affair?

And read this and listen to the clips in here.
Dr. Harley on Scourge of Pornography

Yes if he is having an affair (which he most likely is) that requires a specific route to follow. That is why we are stressing to you to find out if he is having an affair or not. You can't fix this marriage until you know what you are truly dealing with. Your first step is to find out if he is having an affair and who with.

Can you tell me the two routes to take? So that I will know when I figure out if he is having an affair or not?

When you find out if he is having an affair you should come back here and let us know and we will guide you, but you would want to follow the Exposure 101 thread. But come back here first so we can help you with exposure.

He is not having an affair.

The route you would take would be dramatically different than if there wasn't an affair. We told you what to do if he is having an affair.

First, find out the FACTS and then we will know how to guide you.

You know this ...based on what?

I've given you the facts!!! You guys just don't want them because you have your preconceived notions. You won't take me for my word and whatnot. I've done all the searching I will do. I'm not going to hire a private investigator I've asked him he said no, I've checked the phone records and there is nothing, I've asked friends and family and there is nothing. For being a forum to support and help people you all don't seem overly kind or helpful.

No, you don't have the facts. Being a support forum, we help people make decisions based on FACTS, not speculation and guessing. That is a waste of our time and yours.

If you want to truly investigate and get the facts, we can help. Otherwise, no thanks.

How do you know what the facts are or aren't??? How do you want me to get the facts? I don't know what it would be hurting for you all to share with me what to do either way if my husband is having an affair or not. I'm not trying to be rude but I have not felt welcome here on this forum from day one. Honestly, the first response I got that told me that my husband isn't husband material and didn't really have any direction or ideas for me wasn't very helpful or encouraging.

Zanadoo; your husband sounds very like my ex husband. He also was a chronic liar with had huge trust issues. Like your husband he two timed me when we were dating. Things were always turbulent for us too.

What I did not realise is that he had learned from both his parents (enabler mother and philanderer father) that cheating was ok as long as your spouse did not find out. It took 30 years for me to find out about the cheating. When I did, I was floored at how deep and wide his secret second life had become. I stopped counting at the five women he admitted to having affairs with. Conquest was his coping mechanism. When things got tough for him he got an adrenaline rush out of bedding women. It did not seem to matter what they looked like, they were all fat and ugly. Apparently trading down is pretty standard.

Although there were clues here and there looking back, he was pretty good at covering his tracks. For 30 years I just could not understand what was wrong. Nothing that I did seemed to make him calm and happy. In fact the turbulence escalated. He ignored the children and then with no warning would suddenly turn and yell at them. All three are massively damaged. My son had to do a year in rehab.

The truth is that, if I had known about Marriage Builders, I could have caught this early on. These problems only escalate. You need to get to the bottom of this, no man suddenly moves out and files for divorce just for kicks and giggles. You found MB, lucky you. I wish I had been that lucky. Now follow through with these amazing people. They have walked in your shoes. Currently you are headed for divorce. Whether you end your marriage or find a way to save it, you owe it to yourself and your child to know what is happening.

I am so sorry to hear about your marriage and you are correct that I don't want mine to end in the same way. But when it comes to an affair I don't think that is what is happening. When he moved out we had been bitter and angry with each other for about a year.
I guess I just don't understand what would hurt to let me know how to handle the issue either way if he is having an affair or not? I don't see why people are withholding information when they don't know me or my husband from Adam. They say I need the facts but how do they know the facts? They are just assuming off of what I have shared.

We're not going to assist you in running off in the wrong direction. We know that he is having an affair, based on the things you wrote in your first post, and based on our experience as regular posters. Most of us have been here for years, and we've seen many cases where the spouse is convinced that there is not an affair, despite evidence to the contrary. We tell them repeatedly to get the evidence, but they blow up at us (as you are doing), and leave the forum in anger (as you are about to do) because "we won't help them" with the "real problem". After a while, they stumble across evidence that shows them that the real problem was an affair all along. They come back, this time more desperate than ever, but this time with an affair that has grown more entrenched, and that will be, by then, almost impossible to break up.

Ok so if you are so certain that he is having an affair why don't you direct me in the way I should go? Am I just supposed to follow plan B at this point? I've already tried plan A. is anything that I do really going to save my marriage at this point?

In Marriage Builders we have found that relationships are literally so formulaic that they are predictable. Dr. Harley has helped 10,000's of couples and has carefully observed their patterns to find the common thread. Once identified and understood, you will be astonished at how thoroughly the sage observation from Ecclesiastes, "There is nothing new under the sun" applies to relationships.

Certain behaviors of your husband, even in your short description, are textbook for his getting his needs met somewhere else.

Consider an MRI image; unless you are trained it looks like a bunch of black, white and gray pixels that make no sense. It doesn't tell YOU anything. It tells a radiologist everything though, because he's looked at a million of them and has been trained to read them. In the image, a few pixels indicate a cluster of cancer cells that you would never identify but he can.

You can find 100's of threads where: a)someone came here with a problem, b) the board immediately identified the likelihood of an affair, c) the poster insisted it could not be the case, d) the board insisted they investigate better and sadly e) an affair was found. Hundreds. Many of the threads in the Surviving an Affair section have this history.

There are certain 'tells' in your story that this is the case.

The actions to take - if you want to fight for your marriage - are substantially different if there is an affair or if there is not.

If you don't want to fight for your marriage, that is your right and your choice. If you do, we can help you with the methods that are most likely to succeed in your situation.

Dr Harley says that, whenever a spouse cites a need to move out "to get space" or some such, he always suspects an affair first, and is usually proved right. I don't have time to search for it now, but perhaps another poster will be kind enough to link the Q&A column in which he says this.

The above is classic cheater behaviour.

He has no need to be secretive with his phone, unless he is doing something on there that he does not want you to see. You already know about his pornography habit, and it sounds to me as if he would not go to great lengths to hide it, so this is something else.

He vigorously guards a social life that does not include you.

He admits to lying to you about cheating when you were dating. Having sex with someone else while dating is not the same as adultery - but why lie about it until busted only recently? Because it's not the only time it has happened.

He is a liar who has a secret second life.

He is having an affair. He might be having it online. He might be having it long-distance. However he is doing it, he is having one. Ignore this fact at your peril.

What will happen if you refuse to believe the affair is that, having separated from you, he will soon introduce a "new" girlfriend to everyone - but she will not be new. She will be the reason he left home in the first place.

Men who want to be married do not object to their wives wanting to be their recreational partners, and wanting to know what they do on the phone. Men who guard their separate social lives and "refuse to do anything with you" do not want to be married, because they would rather have the freedom to screw other people. It makes no sense that your husband has moved out after only 3 years, leaving his little daughter behind, just because you want him to take you out, give up his single life with the boys, and see his phone.

It makes no sense because he is having an affair.

Your husband is having an affair.

We did direct you. You have done nothing but argue with us ever since.

MelodyLane posted this in September, before you disappeared last time without replying to her:

And I posted this just a few hours ago, and all you've done since then is denied the affair:

And BrainHurts and linked the thread that tells you how to go about exposing an affair, and the thread that describes what Plan B means, and how it is designed to protect you.

So please don't imply that we won't direct you in the way you should go. We've directed you already, and all you've done is fight us, and told us we are unhelpful and unwelcoming:

The posts I've made to you have taken minutes of my time, which is precious on a day like today when I am at work and late for a meeting, and I do not appreciate being told that I am not kind or helpful. We are trying to save you from making your situation worse than it already is. By advising you to find out about the affair and expose, we are offering you the window of opportunity that you have to save this marriage, if it can be saved.

Ok he having an affair what do I do???

I am sorry that I have taken your time.

Find out who the other woman is and get proof.

This.

Do what we told you to do and GET THE EVIDENCE. Otherwise you are wasting our time and yours. I have a full time career, a marriage like most of the other posters and we don't have time to give the same advice over and over. We need you to get the evidence in order to move forward.

zanadoo,

I am sorry about what has happened to your marriage, I am sorry he is having an affair.......If you want to recover you have to blow up the affair and that is done by shining a huge bright light on his affair.
Right now he is seeing her without any consquence, letting everyone that is important to him know and that you are willing to work on the marriage if he ends his affair, ask for their help...
The longer you wait the more entrenched in the affair he becomes and the less likely you can save it......
Expose to everyone on both sides, friends at his work if they work together HR department .....all at the same time....
Then come back and we can help you.....