D-day was 9 months ago.We have been married 19years.We continue stuggle with R. NC has never really stuck with my WS. I have recently found out about continued contact with OP. I finally took a stand, I am unable to stay married to her as long as she continues to have contact with OP. My wife says she will abide to NC this time. I have posted questions about telling OP's wife and the answer from this forum and Surviving Infidelity's forum seem to be the same " tell OP's wife". I have not done that as of yet. I had a IC session scheduled yesterday and wanted to discuss this issue with my IC once again. My IC was emphatic that telling OP's wife is the wrong thing to do, she asked if I was prepared for the "carnage" I would cause by telling. She said it was the OPs place to tell his wife. She said it would only drive my wife away, maybe even force her to leave me for OP. I told my IC that if my wife wanted to leave me she would or she will regardless if I tell. My IC went on to say that it would "controlling" and "manipulating" of me to tell the OP's wife about the affair in an effort to force my wifes decision...I am very confused, I left my IC session re-evaluating my reasons for wanting to tell. I did share with my IC that I have been communicating in various forums on this issue. I also shared the info I gained from Dr. Willard F. Harleys research. My IC still warned that it was not my place to tell. Please again any insight on the subject of telling OP's wife would be greatly appreciated......
You are not inflicting carnage upon anyone. You are telling the truth. Don't ever apologize for telling the truth. The waywards here are the ones who are inflicting carnage and you are simply allowing the OMW to make an informed decision. PLEASE tell her. She may not believe you, but you will know that you did the right thing. You say NC hasn't stuck with you WW. Therefore the A is ongoing and the OMW deserves to know. It's a shame it's taken this long.
1. Blows the cover of darkness off the affair.
2. Make the affair MUCH more uncomfortable for both A partners.
3. The OM's W NEEDS to know her H is having an affair.
4. The OM's W is a second pair of eyes keenly watching the OM,trying to prevent the A from continuing.
5. In addition, exposure should take place not only to the OM's wife, but also to all immediate family and close friend who can influence her to cease the affair. Exposure is one of your strongest weapons in killing the affair.
6. Your IC couldn't be more wrong. Ask your IC if his/her spouse was having an A that was found out by the AP's spouse, wouldn't he/she want to be told?
7. Never mind 6...find another IC familiar with MB principals.
You are so NOT crazy, your MC is!
Please read the articles about infidelity on this website, and familiarize yourself with Plan A and Plan B; and purchase and read Surviving an Affair.
Exposure is the single most impactful weapon you have in your arsenal against this infidelity! The sooner you expose, the sooner you can kill off the affair.
The way that I look at it is this: you already don't have your WS, so what about exposure are you afraid of???
Wouldn't you want someone to tell you if you were in the dark?
You are not crazy, but your IC is. Exactly how many marriages has your IC saved? How many times has your IC been married, ever in an affair?
Did you read Dr. Harley's Oct 2009 newsletter about exposure? Take a look at it. Exposure is one of your most effective tools at ending the A - so far you only have promises from your W, ones she has been unable to keep.
AM
AM
My IC still warned that it was not my place to tell.
Now you know why.
Continued contact.
Exposure from Turtlehead:
--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.
--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.
--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?
--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.
. My IC was emphatic that telling OP's wife is the wrong thing to do, she asked if I was prepared for the "carnage" I would cause by telling
I'm sorry, but you have a counselor who knows nothing about adultery and doesn't know what she is doing. Please get a qualified counselor if you are going to spend your time and money doing this. Dr. Willard Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35 years of saving marriages from adultery and here is what he says about exposure:
"If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
By exposing to the OP's Spouse, you potentially gain an ally in ensuring NC; they watch on their end, you on yours.
Please tell the Spouse, it is the RIGHT thing to do.
You cannot trust an untrustworthy individual (the OP) to tell their spouse, they will spin it making YOU out to be the "crazy jealous" one.
"My IC went on to say that it would "controlling" and "manipulating" of me to tell the OP's wife about the affair in an effort to force my wifes decision...I am very confused"
It is not controlling nor being manipulative to speak the truth!
If the OP's spouse knowing the truth forces your wife's decision, so be it.
Many, many affairs here have been killed on the SAME DAY the BS told the OP's BS.
This affair has gone on too long, don't you think?
Don't you believe the OW's husband deserves to know so that he can protect his marriage?
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband:
The Carrot
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The Stick
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
Blackskys,
Apart from the obviously good advice to expose to help end the affair, let me offer you, in my mind a more compelling reason.
IT IS YOUR MORAL DUTY TO TELL OM's W. Would you not have liked for someone to give you a "heads up" about your W's affair??
MORALLY, you know something that could cause risk to her life, STD's as you don't know if your WW is the only one he is seeing. MORALLY you know she is living a lie because you are allowing her to live a lie. Yes, he could tell, but lying is his stock in trade. You, if you are moral man, a man of integrity, should NOT tolerate lying especially when it involves your life.
And that brings me to the last point. Your IC has the integrity of an alley cat as does your W. And about the same amount of brains. IF the IC cannot see the connection between OM, your WW, you and the OM's W, then this person should lose their license. You MUST tell her for her protection and for any good to come to your marriage.
You might lose your W but if that is the case, then you did all you can/could do. Om's W might dump him and that is her right and a decisions she should be in a position to make. She is not in that position because YOU are lying by omission.
Where I went to college they had a very simple and effective honor code. It stated:
"I will not lie, cheat, or steal nor tolerate those that do."
The question all of us freshman asked was "Do you mean we are to turn a friend if we know they have violated the code?"
The answer was "if you don't and it is found out, you will be thrown out. But, more importantly a "friend" would never put you in that position. You (us students) learn nothing else it is a man of honor does not put people and certainly not friends in a position of condoning your failure of honor."
I think a man of honor lives by that code. I think it is your duty to tell OM's W.
Please think about this.
God Bless,
JL
YOU ARE LYING TO OM W BY OMITION!!!!!!!!!!
How do you feel about that?
If you could help her regain her M with her WH by doing this wouldn't you? So you are continuing to lie by not letting her know.
What if you knew there was a guy placing a bomb on a plane... "well hell, I'm not getting on that plane, so I don't care to tell anyone." Does this make sense to you?
IC and MC are mostly enablers themselves. Would not the counselor want to know if their S was in an A?
D-day was 9 months ago.
We continue stuggle with R.
NC has never really stuck with my WS.
I have posted questions about telling OP's wife and the answer from this forum and Surviving Infidelity's forum seem to be the same " tell OP's wife".
I have not done that as of yet.
blacksys,
Please help yourself and your family by exposing to OMW. You will struggle until you get sick and tired of the ongoing lies and give up. You are handing your wife and family over to OM on a silver platter. Posters are telling you to expose for good reason...it is the best chance you have to kill the A. Your IC has no idea what she is talking about. You are not crazy. You are afraid. You can not afford to be afraid anymore. Take ACTION before it is too late. Those who don't, regret it.
Well, although I feel it doesn't need to be repeated, TELL OMW NOW. What OMW does with your information makes no difference for your sitch. You will feel better knowing that you did the RIGHT thing. All of my friends know that if they were to cheat on their spouse and I found out, I would tell their spouse. I even told my BIL when my SIL was cheating and I told my Dad about my Mom's POSOM. Those were hard ones because I was worried about the anger from My Mom and my SIL but they aren't mad at me anymore.
OMW might know that there is something "wrong" in her M and she just can't figure out what it is. If you shine the light on the affair then she will be able to figure out what she wants to do with her own M.
I know you know this. I can tell by your first post that you know this. Your IC is obviously not trained in saving a M from an A. Dr H has guided many couples through this. You knew all along that the right thing to do was contact the OMW, now you have all of the support from this end.
YOU ARE LYING TO OM W BY OMITION!!!!!!!!!!
How do you feel about that?
If you could help her regain her M with her WH by doing this wouldn't you? So you are continuing to lie by not letting her know.
What if you knew there was a guy placing a bomb on a plane... "well hell, I'm not getting on that plane, so I don't care to tell anyone." Does this make sense to you?
IC and MC are mostly enablers themselves. Would not the counselor want to know if their S was in an A?
I know that this is where my feelings of guilt lie. Why am I keeping their secret?
The thing I dont really understand is my intense feeling of "fear". I am not fearfull of the OP,I have even thought of confronting him in person, but I cant predict the outcome so I dont. I am not afraid of the OP's wife. As strange as it sounds I am most fearful of losing my wife, when in fact I may have already lost her. It doesnt make sense,at times I feel like I am in a fog of denial. The responses have reaffirmed what I need to do. Thanks much.........
blacksky, we were all fearful, but in order to save our marriages we had to put fear aside and do the necessary things to save our marriage. You cannot afford to allow FEAR to drive your ship or you will lose. Your only hope is to put aside your fear and take the necessary steps.
Your current plan of action is the most likely to lead to divorce because you have already lost her. If you don't get to work, you will never get her back.
You have nothing to lose, my friend.
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
First, you definitely need a new counselor.
My WW and I just switched from a run-of-the-mill psychologist to a true infidelity expert and it's already made a world of difference.
Second, as far as exposure goes: If your WW didn't realize you'd tell everyone of her affair when she chose to lie and cheat on you... well then she didn't think it through. Tough sh*t for her.
I say it's high time you shined a big ole spotlight on their dirty little secret. If she gets mad, then she'll begin to know how you feel.
My IC was emphatic that telling OP's wife is the wrong thing to do, she asked if I was prepared for the "carnage" I would cause by telling. She said it was the OPs place to tell his wife. She said it would only drive my wife away, maybe even force her to leave me for OP.
I'm going to steal an analogy that MelodyLane likes to use, because for me it puts this question in perspective like nothing else.
Suppose your neighbor owned a business and one of his employees was embezzling money from him. Would you remain quiet and not tell your neighbor "because you would cause carnage" by telling? That's nonsense! It's the embezzler causing carnage, not the one exposing the wrong doing. In your situation, it's your WW and the OM that are causing carnage, not you.
Yes it's possible that WW and OM will turn to each other in a desperate "us against the world" reaction. It happens like that sometimes. But the affair does not seem so attractive and meant-to-be with daylight shining on it. And as you said, if she runs to OM because of your exposure, she's not truly into recovering the marriage right now anyway. If she runs to OM it will prove she's just dragging her heels and not really into recovery -- and the sooner you know that about her, the better.
I still have not told OP's wife. It weighs on my mind ever day. I have read differant opinions and am very confused .My wife seems deppressed and distant. We have a very hard time discussing anything without it turning into a fight. My wife still warns me not to tell OP's wife, she wonders why I would be so vindictive and says everything will blow up. I wish I could believe that NC is taking place but I dont. There is a part of me that thinks I should tell and let the cards fall. Would that cause her to leave me??? Some of their emails I discovered stated that they both would wait to leave their spouses, that the timing wasnt right now.... very,very confused
Be courageous. Tell the OMW. If your wife leaves, she would have done so anyway. Nothing good can come of witholding this info, IMO.
blacksky,
With all due respect your are a simple minded fool if you are confused about YOUR HONOR. Your honor is at stake here, what are your standards? This is not about what other people think. It is about what you are about as a man.
Your W is trying to guilt you into not telling so that she does not have to end her affair. It is ongoing NOW. She is in contact with OM and she does not want to lose that. In fact, she has as much as told you that she will chose him, at least that is what she thinks now.
So let me ask you, why would you protect a woman that will dump you for HER mistakes if you do the honorable thing? Is this really a woman that you could love? She is not the woman you married. She is not a woman of honor. And she is a woman that will repeat this until and unless she comes to realize the horror she has visited on you and her marriage.
You MUST tell OM's W. She MUST know the truth so that she can make informed decisions about her life. You may choose to live in fear and without honor but she deserves the chance to make that decision for herself.
You are not doing anything to either OM or your W. You are letting OM's W have the truth to do with as she wishes. You have the truth and it has been your choice to do nothing. It may suit you, but it may not suit OM's W. You do not have the right to make that decision for her.
Your W does not have the right to make that decision for her. The OM does not have the right to make that decision for her.
Your W has been wrong about her affair, about how she has handled your marriage, and she is clearly NOT someone that understands honor. She continues contact with OM although she knows it hurts you.
You will tell my you are in love. And I will tell you that you have no concept of the truth of love. Love is not being a punching bag, emotionally or physcially. Love does not require one to forgoe their honor. Love does not require one to allow other people to be hurt by lies or lies of omission.
AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR ON THIS POINT???
I hope so and I hope you find it within yourself to do what is right as clearly your W, your counselor, and your OM cannot and will not.
God Bless your soul.
JL
I still have not told OP's wife. It weighs on my mind ever day. I have read differant opinions and am very confused .My wife seems deppressed and distant. We have a very hard time discussing anything without it turning into a fight. My wife still warns me not to tell OP's wife, she wonders why I would be so vindictive and says everything will blow up. I wish I could believe that NC is taking place but I dont. There is a part of me that thinks I should tell and let the cards fall. Would that cause her to leave me??? Some of their emails I discovered stated that they both would wait to leave their spouses, that the timing wasnt right now.... very,very confused
This guy is not going to make it. He is a classic ENABLER who won't stand up for his marriage.
I still have not told OP's wife. It weighs on my mind ever day. I have read differant opinions and am very confused .
I am sure that MB position about exposure is unanimous. It weighs you because you know it is a right thing to do.
My wife still warns me not to tell OP's wife, she wonders why I would be so vindictive and says everything will blow up.
Of course, there will be anger but within "everything", it will blow up also her affair! You will ruin the affair that's why she is threatening you!
How can be telling the truth be "vindictive", anyway? Only in the eyes who are afraid of the truth...
I wish I could believe that NC is taking place but I dont. There is a part of me that thinks I should tell and let the cards fall. Would that cause her to leave me??? Some of their emails I discovered stated that they both would wait to leave their spouses, that the timing wasnt right now.... very,very confused
Emotionally, your WW has left you already, do you understand that?
If she will leave after exposure (and I have strong doubts that she will permanently) then there was no chance left for you anyway. But to sit there just hoping and wishing is the worst you can do to save your marriage.
I am speaking from my personal experience here. I too, had read "different opinions" and didnt expose to OMW initially but it costed me 9 months false recovery.
The only excuse I have is that I hadn't found MB yet. But when I discovered 8 months ago that the A was still ongoing I didn't hesitate. I exposed to OMW immediately and if anything at all this might have saved my marriage.
I'll try to be gentle, here: blackskys, your IC is a clueless idiot.
Also: I am a betrayed wife. As a BW, I cannot repeat enough times how glad I am the the OPs husband exposed the affair!! You must do this! The worst thing in the world would have been for me to never have found out.