Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#2309411 01/21/10 06:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 7
B
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 7
D-day was 9 months ago.We have been married 19years.We continue stuggle with R. NC has never really stuck with my WS. I have recently found out about continued contact with OP. I finally took a stand, I am unable to stay married to her as long as she continues to have contact with OP. My wife says she will abide to NC this time. I have posted questions about telling OP's wife and the answer from this forum and Surviving Infidelity's forum seem to be the same " tell OP's wife". I have not done that as of yet. I had a IC session scheduled yesterday and wanted to discuss this issue with my IC once again. My IC was emphatic that telling OP's wife is the wrong thing to do, she asked if I was prepared for the "carnage" I would cause by telling. She said it was the OPs place to tell his wife. She said it would only drive my wife away, maybe even force her to leave me for OP. I told my IC that if my wife wanted to leave me she would or she will regardless if I tell. My IC went on to say that it would "controlling" and "manipulating" of me to tell the OP's wife about the affair in an effort to force my wifes decision...I am very confused, I left my IC session re-evaluating my reasons for wanting to tell. I did share with my IC that I have been communicating in various forums on this issue. I also shared the info I gained from Dr. Willard F. Harleys research. My IC still warned that it was not my place to tell. Please again any insight on the subject of telling OP's wife would be greatly appreciated......

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 134
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 134
You are not inflicting carnage upon anyone. You are telling the truth. Don't ever apologize for telling the truth. The waywards here are the ones who are inflicting carnage and you are simply allowing the OMW to make an informed decision. PLEASE tell her. She may not believe you, but you will know that you did the right thing. You say NC hasn't stuck with you WW. Therefore the A is ongoing and the OMW deserves to know. It's a shame it's taken this long.


ME: 45 FBS
FWH: GloveOil 43
D-Day 1/7/09 (A: 10/08-1/09)
DD: 16
DS: 12
Married: 19 years
In love for 24+ years and counting!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,959
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,959
1. Blows the cover of darkness off the affair.
2. Make the affair MUCH more uncomfortable for both A partners.
3. The OM's W NEEDS to know her H is having an affair.
4. The OM's W is a second pair of eyes keenly watching the OM,trying to prevent the A from continuing.
5. In addition, exposure should take place not only to the OM's wife, but also to all immediate family and close friend who can influence her to cease the affair. Exposure is one of your strongest weapons in killing the affair.
6. Your IC couldn't be more wrong. Ask your IC if his/her spouse was having an A that was found out by the AP's spouse, wouldn't he/she want to be told?
7. Never mind 6...find another IC familiar with MB principals.


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
You are so NOT crazy, your MC is!

Please read the articles about infidelity on this website, and familiarize yourself with Plan A and Plan B; and purchase and read Surviving an Affair.

Exposure is the single most impactful weapon you have in your arsenal against this infidelity! The sooner you expose, the sooner you can kill off the affair.

The way that I look at it is this: you already don't have your WS, so what about exposure are you afraid of???

Wouldn't you want someone to tell you if you were in the dark?


Me BS
H FWS

DDay 10/2007

Actively recovering, learning, loving, earning a better marriage!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,587
You are not crazy, but your IC is. Exactly how many marriages has your IC saved? How many times has your IC been married, ever in an affair?

Did you read Dr. Harley's Oct 2009 newsletter about exposure? Take a look at it. Exposure is one of your most effective tools at ending the A - so far you only have promises from your W, ones she has been unable to keep.

AM

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: blackskys
My IC still warned that it was not my place to tell.


Bad advice.
Now you know why.
Continued contact.



Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
Exposure from Turtlehead:


--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.


Me BS
H FWS

DDay 10/2007

Actively recovering, learning, loving, earning a better marriage!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: blackskys
. My IC was emphatic that telling OP's wife is the wrong thing to do, she asked if I was prepared for the "carnage" I would cause by telling


I'm sorry, but you have a counselor who knows nothing about adultery and doesn't know what she is doing. Please get a qualified counselor if you are going to spend your time and money doing this. Dr. Willard Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35 years of saving marriages from adultery and here is what he says about exposure:

Originally Posted By: Dr Willard Harley, founder of Marriage Builders
"If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
Exposure


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
By exposing to the OP's Spouse, you potentially gain an ally in ensuring NC; they watch on their end, you on yours.

Please tell the Spouse, it is the RIGHT thing to do.

You cannot trust an untrustworthy individual (the OP) to tell their spouse, they will spin it making YOU out to be the "crazy jealous" one.


Me BS
H FWS

DDay 10/2007

Actively recovering, learning, loving, earning a better marriage!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
expose OMW

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
"My IC went on to say that it would "controlling" and "manipulating" of me to tell the OP's wife about the affair in an effort to force my wifes decision...I am very confused"

It is not controlling nor being manipulative to speak the truth!

If the OP's spouse knowing the truth forces your wife's decision, so be it.


Many, many affairs here have been killed on the SAME DAY the BS told the OP's BS.


This affair has gone on too long, don't you think?


Me BS
H FWS

DDay 10/2007

Actively recovering, learning, loving, earning a better marriage!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 78
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 78
Don't you believe the OW's husband deserves to know so that he can protect his marriage?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 139
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband:


The Carrot


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The Stick


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Me BS
H FWS

DDay 10/2007

Actively recovering, learning, loving, earning a better marriage!
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
Blackskys,

Apart from the obviously good advice to expose to help end the affair, let me offer you, in my mind a more compelling reason.

IT IS YOUR MORAL DUTY TO TELL OM's W. Would you not have liked for someone to give you a "heads up" about your W's affair??

MORALLY, you know something that could cause risk to her life, STD's as you don't know if your WW is the only one he is seeing. MORALLY you know she is living a lie because you are allowing her to live a lie. Yes, he could tell, but lying is his stock in trade. You, if you are moral man, a man of integrity, should NOT tolerate lying especially when it involves your life.

And that brings me to the last point. Your IC has the integrity of an alley cat as does your W. And about the same amount of brains. IF the IC cannot see the connection between OM, your WW, you and the OM's W, then this person should lose their license. You MUST tell her for her protection and for any good to come to your marriage.

You might lose your W but if that is the case, then you did all you can/could do. Om's W might dump him and that is her right and a decisions she should be in a position to make. She is not in that position because YOU are lying by omission.

Where I went to college they had a very simple and effective honor code. It stated:

"I will not lie, cheat, or steal nor tolerate those that do."

The question all of us freshman asked was "Do you mean we are to turn a friend if we know they have violated the code?"

The answer was "if you don't and it is found out, you will be thrown out. But, more importantly a "friend" would never put you in that position. You (us students) learn nothing else it is a man of honor does not put people and certainly not friends in a position of condoning your failure of honor."

I think a man of honor lives by that code. I think it is your duty to tell OM's W.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 688
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 688
YOU ARE LYING TO OM W BY OMITION!!!!!!!!!!

How do you feel about that?

If you could help her regain her M with her WH by doing this wouldn't you? So you are continuing to lie by not letting her know.

What if you knew there was a guy placing a bomb on a plane... "well hell, I'm not getting on that plane, so I don't care to tell anyone." Does this make sense to you?

IC and MC are mostly enablers themselves. Would not the counselor want to know if their S was in an A?

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Originally Posted By: blackskys
D-day was 9 months ago.
We continue stuggle with R.
NC has never really stuck with my WS.
I have posted questions about telling OP's wife and the answer from this forum and Surviving Infidelity's forum seem to be the same " tell OP's wife".
I have not done that as of yet.


blacksys,

Please help yourself and your family by exposing to OMW. You will struggle until you get sick and tired of the ongoing lies and give up. You are handing your wife and family over to OM on a silver platter. Posters are telling you to expose for good reason...it is the best chance you have to kill the A. Your IC has no idea what she is talking about. You are not crazy. You are afraid. You can not afford to be afraid anymore. Take ACTION before it is too late. Those who don't, regret it.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,240
Well, although I feel it doesn't need to be repeated, TELL OMW NOW. What OMW does with your information makes no difference for your sitch. You will feel better knowing that you did the RIGHT thing. All of my friends know that if they were to cheat on their spouse and I found out, I would tell their spouse. I even told my BIL when my SIL was cheating and I told my Dad about my Mom's POSOM. Those were hard ones because I was worried about the anger from My Mom and my SIL but they aren't mad at me anymore.

OMW might know that there is something "wrong" in her M and she just can't figure out what it is. If you shine the light on the affair then she will be able to figure out what she wants to do with her own M.

I know you know this. I can tell by your first post that you know this. Your IC is obviously not trained in saving a M from an A. Dr H has guided many couples through this. You knew all along that the right thing to do was contact the OMW, now you have all of the support from this end.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 7
B
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: themud
YOU ARE LYING TO OM W BY OMITION!!!!!!!!!!

How do you feel about that?

If you could help her regain her M with her WH by doing this wouldn't you? So you are continuing to lie by not letting her know.

What if you knew there was a guy placing a bomb on a plane... "well hell, I'm not getting on that plane, so I don't care to tell anyone." Does this make sense to you?

IC and MC are mostly enablers themselves. Would not the counselor want to know if their S was in an A?




I know that this is where my feelings of guilt lie. Why am I keeping their secret?
The thing I dont really understand is my intense feeling of "fear". I am not fearfull of the OP,I have even thought of confronting him in person, but I cant predict the outcome so I dont. I am not afraid of the OP's wife. As strange as it sounds I am most fearful of losing my wife, when in fact I may have already lost her. It doesnt make sense,at times I feel like I am in a fog of denial. The responses have reaffirmed what I need to do. Thanks much.........

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
blacksky, we were all fearful, but in order to save our marriages we had to put fear aside and do the necessary things to save our marriage. You cannot afford to allow FEAR to drive your ship or you will lose. Your only hope is to put aside your fear and take the necessary steps.

Your current plan of action is the most likely to lead to divorce because you have already lost her. If you don't get to work, you will never get her back.

You have nothing to lose, my friend.

Originally Posted By: Dr Willard Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 561
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 561
First, you definitely need a new counselor.

My WW and I just switched from a run-of-the-mill psychologist to a true infidelity expert and it's already made a world of difference.

Second, as far as exposure goes: If your WW didn't realize you'd tell everyone of her affair when she chose to lie and cheat on you... well then she didn't think it through. Tough sh*t for her.

I say it's high time you shined a big ole spotlight on their dirty little secret. If she gets mad, then she'll begin to know how you feel.


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 44 guests, and 44 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mwid, Shepherd, alg, Pelican89, SRL
71,673 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,526
Posts2,322,551
Members71,673
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5