Hello
I am new to this website, and will try to be brief. My WH had and A with a coworker. It has been going on for a little over a year, we have 2 kids age 2 & 3 yo. I found out only 3 weeks ago. He told me that he loves her but still lovees me too. The OW is also married with 2 kids and has an abusive husband. When I found out about the A, my WH and the OW said she was leaving the state in 2 weeks, as to get away from her husband because of the abuse. Well when the time came to leave she calls by WH and tells him that her husband caught her trying to leave and would not allow her to leave, now she thinks she will have to stay at the same job. Me and my WH are in counseling and trying to work things out, he seems sincere and remorseful about what he did. He is doing everything I ask and we are getting to a better place. We are even making passionate love and that has not happened in years. The problem is that total separation with OW will not work as WH is her boss.He says they will have to have face to face interaction for the job, actually I suprised him for lunch the other day and they were alone together in a cubicle, he says they were just discussing their new work roles. She seemed very nervous and angry and did not look up to even acknowledge me.How do I deal with this situation, how can we recover in a situation like this?

Lisa:

You recover by following Harley's rules. Your first stop is read the link "How to Survive Infidelity," which in the right hand menu.

Then "Basic concepts." I also suggest that you purchase the book, "Surviving An Affair," by Dr. Willard Harley.

I am so sorry you find yourself here. This is the number one recovery from affair site and for good reason. Dr. Harley has literally written the book on recovery. Recovery is a very narrow path to follow. But for those who do walk that narrow path and follow the plan, the recovery rate is very, very high, which contrasts with most Therapists, who mostly act as Divorce Counselors instead of marriage saviors.

Your first action step is going to be to bust up the affair. And that gets into what will happen to your WH (wayward husband) and his job. He and the other woman (OW) have done something that is just too stupid for words and that is have an affair on company time between a supervisor and his direct report. When, not if, the company finds out, he is likely to be fired. I would bet a dollar against a hole in a donut that many people know and that it is just a matter of time before it sees the light of day.

I don't buy the story you have been told about OW and her husband and forcing her to stay. Remember, those who betray are most often hooked on the affair just like hooked on drugs and they will lie at the drop of hat to protect the affair.

Larry

So should I tell my WH husbands supervisor? I am also scared that he will lose his job and we need his job for our financial stability

Lisa- I am sorry that you find yourself here, but saying that WELCOME.

There are many people who are going to tell you to do certain things that are going to scare you and you won't listen to at first but you should try to understand what they are saying.

You have an opportunity here to try to RECOVER your MARRIAGE. It's a SMALL window of opportunity so take the steps to recover now.

You will have to read a lot on here, but by the fact that you have already started using the correct terminology, I assume you have already been reading. That's good.

Post on here and get all of the help you can for your sitch.

The way to put the very most pressure on the Affair, and as long as they still see each other, the affair continues and there will be no recovery, is exposure.

Get the book mentioned above and read it cover to cover as quickly as possible. Read as many posts here as you can. Focus on Exposure and No Contact...as these two things really need to take place for recovery to have much of a chance.

Exposure should be done without warning to anyone, and should be done as quickly as possible...maybe in one day. Exposure targets are your immediate closed circle of family and friends who can positively impact your efforts to save your marriage. Exposure should also take place to their bosses in the workplace, the OW's husband (critical), parents, siblings and others who can impact HIS life.

Exposure is not done as an avenging event, it is done out of love, and the desire to save your marriage. People you expose to should hear you speaking in a calm and loving voice when you out the affair, and ask for their support and help in saving your marriage.

You can think of a bunch of reasons NOT to expose, but people who have not exposed have far less success in breaking up the affair, achieving No Contact and getting to recovery.

Get the book! Keep posting! You have the support here to assist you along the rocky path to "surviving an affair".

It sounds as if you have already been reading. And yes, you will have to expose the affair and not only to your husband's supervisor. Exposing an affair to the light of day is the very best way, almost the only way, to stop it. And you cannot begin the recovery of your marriage until the affair is stopped, period, end of sentence.

Do you work?
Do you have the courage to do what is right for the sake of your kids and yourself?
Larry

And, for the record, people in affairs lie about everything, just as an addict would lie to get the next fix.

The "abusive husband" story, leaving the state, and all that is probably a lie to convince you the poor girl needs her job and no contact is just going to have to wait. Boo hoo! Not your problem. Talk in person to her hubby and get the truth. Do not believe a word either affair partner says, because if their lips are moving, they are lying. It's part of the package.

I am just concerned with the financial issues with full exposure as there are not a lot of jobs now, and we cannot pay our bills without his income. Is there any other way? My husband says he is stong enough to have a stricyly professional relationship with her now and says he is taking steps to get transferred, but he says that will all take time, meanwhile I am getting very uncomfortable with this situation like it is.

Also I do not want my WH to be upset with me and we are in a good place. He is really trying to be open and honest and is even seeing his own counselor. I also don't want to be a doormat. I am so confused on what to do

Your WH isn't "strong" enough. He had weak boundaries in the first place which led to an affair with OW and now he is torturing you by still working with her.

Can you live off of what you would get when he leaves you? What will your finances be like then? If you don't take the appropriate actions now to try to END the A, then that will become your reality. Think about that for a while.

There are many people who have been where you are now and some of them didn't expose. I NEVER have heard anyone who exposed say that they regret it. I only hear people that they didn't expose, or exposed too late say that they regret THAT.

It is going to be rough. Your WH IS going to be ANGRY. He may even lose his job, but HE should have thought about that BEFORE he decided to commit adultery.

Should I share this with my huband?

You should not trust your WH. Think of him as an alien that is trying to do things to destroy your M. Would you tell an enemy your plans for battle ahead of time?

Hi Lisa.

Workplace adultery really sucks. There is no easy solution.

Unfortunately if they continue contact it will not end. Your marriage cannot survive continued contact. Period.

Your husband is not strong enough. No wayward is.

My WxW conducted a workplace adultery with a married co-worker too. They did not work in the same building and for the most part were 60 miles apart.

I exposed to all and for 21 days she went through a pathetic withdrawal from her �soul mate and confidant�. Barf. She pledged she would get a new job but dragged her feet. I was the one job hunting for her as she could never quite get around to it. She said that until she found another job, if there ever was contact that she could be professional and handle it too.

Then a meeting was called at her building and OM was there. She came home that night a total fog bank. A week later she left. Two weeks later she filed for divorce.

Both marriages (mine was 26 years OM�s was 15 years) were destroyed. My DD (then 18) was devastated and even now at 22 still struggles terribly with it. The OM had a son (then 2) who now is just another sorry broken home custody statistic.

If you want to know what real financial strain and loss is, try a divorce.

They now live together.

No contact for life is your only answer.

Oh, and I don�t by the abusive OWH either. If this guy is so scary and dangerous why would this dumb slut get into an adulterous relationship for over a year? Doesn�t add up does it?

Don't let fear dictate what you must do.

The thing is my husband says he never had any intention of leaving me for her. He does not want to leave our kids. Even when I was talking divorce and he was so sad and begging saying he wanted to raise our kids as a family. He also says that my lack of intimacy was his big problem and now we are making passionate love all the time, he also has absolutely no time to be with her now. I cut off the prior opportunity that he did have.

I am sure that my WH had no intention of leaving me until I told him that he couldn't be with both POSOW and ME. He now lives with POSOW and has very little contact with our children. That kills me, but it is better than the alternative.

See, I knew about a possible affair for 2 years before I was lucky enough to find this site. I didn't have a plan and now I see that a lot of what I did was WRONG. Now I have a PLAN and I am doing my best to get personal recovery. Will my MARRIAGE recover? I don't know. Will I be okay? YOU BETCHA. How? By following the MB concepts and program.

So first thing you have to do is expose.

Look up the definition of "Gas Lighting" on the web. It is a common method that waywards use to control their spouse and the whole thing is an undignified assault on your ability to think for yourself.

Larry

Get your dignity back.

1. Tell him to find another job, right now, even if he has to take a pay cut.
2. Expose but don't tell him in advance.
3. Get yourself checked for SDs.

Those in an affair are like druggies and drunks, not to be trusted. You can get your old (new?) husband back if you take the right steps. And not a chance if you don't have a plan and follow the plan.

Larry

I am also confused about the OP thing, I thought that if the WS moved in with the OP that the affair would end very soon, but you all make it seem that the relationships have lasted. So how is this an addiction and not just someone finding a better life partner? I am so confused because every situation is so different, but it is allways the same response to all. How can that be?

Couple of things:

First of all, if the WS moves in with the OP, it may take a bit of time before reality hits. They do not all end right way. The long term success rate approaches 2 percent 2%.

Affairs are NOT complicated. There is a bunch of stuff that is common to all. Thus, a common approach that works. You do want something that works, right?

Affairs are on complicated for YOU, because you have had no need to educate yourself until now. Once you become learned enough, you will see why I say they are not complicated at all, and most all of them can be handled with common tools.

Mel has most of the commonly needed quotations at her fingertips and if she notices this thread, will show up and provide the right quotation and explanation directly from Dr. Harley.

Larry

It's an addiction because he is being controlled by a chemical in his brain.

FInding a better life partner? He picked YOU, didn't he? He's having an affair with HER because he would NEVER marry her.

Lisa welcome to MB. Sorry you have to find yourself here.

I agree with the pp that said don't let fear dictate what you do in attempts to recover your M. I have truly learned that it takes guts to recover a M.

As far as your WH saying he is strong enough to keep it professional with OW. My WH said a similar thing in regards to his working in a church ministry with OW. Two years later I discovered that neither were able to maintain the agreement of NC outside of church for longer than two weeks.

As far as the OWH being abusive. I've only been here a couple months and have heard that story a few times now.

NC must be established before recovery can begin. I'd expose to WH boss first thing Monday morning, even at the risk of losing income until he finds another job. I'm sure WH knew that would be a consequence of having an A with his subordinate.

In the meantime snoop to find out OWH contact info and expose to him. I wouldn't be surprised if be was the total opposite of being an abusive H.

I am still scared about risking my WH job and life. All of my family is so against me exposing him at his job, they think that that would be stupid as far as even child support is concerned. Although I feel really concerned about the fallout, obviously him still working with her does not feel right with me, that is what I am dealing with. If there is any one out there with any other advice but full exposure to the job, please help!!

Full exposure is all that will work.

Wishing and hoping will do you no good. Everyone will tell you that full exposure is the only thing that will work.

You are plugging your ears and hoping that going LA LA LA will make the affair go away.

IT WILL NOT.

EXPOSE. NOW!

You should just file for divorce because you are done. There will not be any recovery as long as they continue to see each other at work. That is about like expecting an alcoholic to sober up by changing the name of his drinks to �business drinks.� That is cute and clever but it won�t ever result in sobriety. What your future holds is a death of a thousand cuts where the affair gets more and more entrenched and possibly results in the OW getting pregnant. This is exactly how a short affair turns into a long term affair.

Lisa, he needs to leave the job ASAP. He needs to get something else lined up and get out of there. He will get fired anyway when they find out what an absolutely irresponsible, unfit BOSS he is. He is not fit to be in a position of authority and has left his own company is extreme legal jeopardy by abusing his authority with his female subordinates. In my company, we fire ppl like that on the spot and escort them off the premises by an ARMED security guard.

Has this been exposed to the OW�s husband? Does he know what your husband and sleazy wife have done to him behind his back?

I know you are scared but you can NOT let the fear rule you. If you expecting to get any GOOD advice on here without us telling you NOT to expose, than you will be waiting a really LONG time(LIKE FOREVER).

As far as your friends and family not wanting you to expose, how many of them have years of experience helping people recover from infidelity? Dr Harley has MANY years of experience and he says that the first step to RECOVERY is to END the affair. As a BS, your strongest weapon is EXPOSURE. Your WH is using his weapons against YOU. His weapon right now is DECEIT. If you expose, then his weapon is useless. He cannot deceive people if you have already told him the truth. And you will never know where your allies will come from as far as who will be the soldiers with you in your attempt to defeat his affair.

Affairs are different? how so? I have been here for 9 years and have read THOUSANDS of stories and the only thing different are the names and places and hair color. Otherwise they are all the same. How do you imagine they are different?

Listen to ML--as per her register date, she's been here long enough to really know.

Go over and read up in the Pregnancy forum about the women whose husbands continued to see their OW and got them pregnant. They are now dealing with what is called an "other child." That is what you risk if you tolerate a continuation of this affair. And yes, it is a continuation. They are just calling it "business drinks" now.

Your H is what we call a "LOOSE CANNON" in corporate America. He is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Any boss that trolls his subordinates for sex is unfit and a danger to the company.

Hi Lisa. I was afraid you would not be up to the hard work of saving your marriage.

You asking for someone, anyone, to tell you what you want to hear instead of what you need to know.

1. Your family hasn't a clue. When did they become experts>
2. Did you read the material I asked you to read? The answer is there.
3. Your husband has done something terrible from the point of view of any company with a brain. He will be fired anyway. It is just a matter of time. HE CAN RUN BUT HE CANNOT HIDE.
4. Since you won't read what is here or listen to what is said, then I have only one suggestion: Get ready for the divorce.

Sorry

Larry

Larry I get what u are saying, but you are being a bit harsh. I will feel really guilty once my husband loses his job and we are forced into forclosure on our house. There are so many expenses like daycare and car notes, that we just can't afford on my salary alone. Also as you well no there are very few jobs out here. My husband says he is working on finding a new job ASAP, but this could take a year or more. Also how will they find the time to be together, when I am now watching like a hawk (I have cell phone bills, email passwords and he has the kids when I am at work). I even told my WS that I will hire a private investigator if I even smell a rat. Please let me know if this makes any sense or if I am a complete fool! I can handle the truth. Also when my husband does lose his job then what? Where do we go from there? Please I need real world solutions as far as finances and also living with his anger at me for causing him to lose his job.

Lisa, I would make sure that your H is diligently looking for another job. But you should expect and prepare for the fact that the affair has not ended. There are many, many ways to skin that cat. They can run out for nooners, have sex in the parking garage, have sex in the broom closet, send love notes via work email. They have opportunities all day long. And you will never know.

Your H is the alcoholic who goes in the bar every day and has drinks. You just need to accept this is the reality and get him out of there as soon as humanly possible.

p.s. and more importantly, this affair needs to be exposed to the OWH NOW if that has not been done. He has a right to know your H and his skanky wife are doing to him and his children so he can protect himself. He needs to know NOW.

No Lisa, I wasn't being harsh. I was being real.

See, I expect that work will find out anyway. You cannot hide that kinda stuff at work. It is well within the realm of serious possibility that the other woman has just been working to set your husband up, so she can file a sexual harassment suit against the company. "Boo hoo, he made me do it and I have kids and. . ."

How about this one. Your hubby dumps her. She tells all to husband in a fit of remorse and HE calls the company and sues. Want some more scenes? I can come up with at least three more where your WH will NOT have a job in the very near future. He was playing with dynamite and a complete jacka@@. She WORKS for him. Sheesh.

His only hope is to get his sorry self out of there, like right NOW! Doesn't that make sense if you think about it?
After all what is it going to do for your husband when he looks for work with FIRED for adultery at work whispered. He is dead meat.

He needs to find a job anywhere he can, immediately, even if it is greeter at WalMart. His pride means nothing, he already flushed his pride down the toilet when he did the deed with a direct report. Now he has to do what is right.

Leave us keep talking Lisa. We are all here for you.

Larry

Well Lisa, Larry is a tell it like it is kinda person. He will help you if you will help yourself. If you aren't going to do anything about it then you will just watch your M dissolve and you can come back in a year and tell us all how we were right and you should have listened in the first place.

Does this guarantee that your M will R? Nope, but this is your BEST chance and may well be your ONLY chance to RECOVER YOUR MARRIAGE. That is what you want right? If it isn't, there are people who can tell you what to do for that as well.

EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE.

I think the best advice for you right now is to EXPOSE.

Long ago, in another life, I was married to a lady who worked for a very large retail thing. She worked in their headquarters. The place was eat up with affairs. You could see the cars and vans rocking at lunch. I have actually gone there and watched from one of the upstairs windows to get a laugh.

One lawsuit later, there is a company guard whose job it is to bust anyone he can find in the parking lot. If caught, the participants get fired on the spot, no recourse. If found out by any other means, fired on the spot. If a spouse complains, automatic suspension and immediate intensive investigation. Any shred of evidence, they get fired on the spot.

Ok, the lawsuit: $8 million dollars in the settlement, so I have heard. The direct report was female and was divorced because of all of it. Three kids. It was a zoo. Oh, and oddly enough, after the settlement, the direct report remarried her old husband.

I heard all about it from a female friend of my then wife, who was involved with another of the married executives. She was told to bail by someone she respected because all heck was about to bust loose. And it did. No point in the details.

Just saying. . .

Larry

This A is not over, Lisa. Please do not fool yourself.

A BIG mistake of the BS is to believe anything that comes out of a wayward's mouth. Even if you believe the A is "over", when there has been recent contact with OW, you better get used to the concept that your H will be lying to you. And his story about discussing work roles is a LIE. I am 100% sure of that.

My H had a workplace EA and he will be the first person to tell you continued contact at work means the A won't end. Oh and the abusive husband part? That's what his OW said too. Apparently this is a common tactic used by the OW.

Every time my H went to work, I would be anxious and nervous all day. Was he talking to OW? Were they flirting? Were they alone? (Later I found out the answer was yes to all of the above) It brought out the worst parts of me... I only did that for about a month when I couldn't take it anymore. He knew I was serious and he left his job. How long do you think you can live like this?

Are you going to tell OW's H? I would start there. He needs to know ASAP.

ps~It has already been posted to you but it is worth restating: If your H loses his job it is because he decided to have a workplace affair, not because of exposure. Just remember that.

There are some things you're going to have to come to terms with, Lisa. First of all, your WH is a LIAR. All waywards lie.
They have to be liars in order to conduct an A in the first place. Second, your WH is an ADDICT. He is addicted to the feelings that come by being with the OW. Addicts usually need intervention to end their addiction. That intervention is the third thing you'll need to accept: NO CONTACT FOR LIFE between the adulterers. Your H has indicated by his actions/inaction that he intends to remain in contact with his AP. In order to achieve NC, EXPOSURE will have to occur. This needs to happen swiftly and explosively. Read more about it on this site.

You have nothing to feel guilty about by exposing this festering mess. Nothing. Your H had NO business screwing around with an employee at work - he was suposed to be there earning a living! And now HE has jeopardized that, not you!

So expose. If he loses his job he can watch the kids while you work and he looks for work. Sell one of the cars. Sell your house and look for a smaller one. What is more important - saving your M or keeping your house? What's more important - letting him stay there and continuing the A and eventually divorcing you, or saving your M? Where are your priorities? If he leaves you you'll have to sell the house anyway, correct?

BTW - welcome. Sorry you're here, but you're at the right place. We can help you.

Lisa, I just bumped my original post on exposure for you. Please read it.

Also note - a sexual harrassment charge is a very real possibility here. And I'm not just talking about the OW getting pissed about the end of the A. I'm talking about the other employees in your H's company who are aware of the A and may be ready to file suit against him/his company even now. And don't kid yourself by thinking that no one knows. Oh, they know, alright.

Exposure may prevent a lawsuit against your H and his company.

Having to remain in this state of limbo is totally unacceptable for you, and is abuse by your H. No, there is no other way. NC is the only way. You may be initially uncomfortable with the thought of exposure, but that will be the only way to end the A. Your H wasn't strong enough to stay out of the A in the first place, before he got addicted. There's no way he can be strong enough to stay out of it now that he's addicted to OW and has a romantic history with her.

I know I sound like a broken record, but he is really being open with me and close to me. He is journaling a lot and really feels sorry and remorseful for what he did. We are making love again and we have not done that in a while. He is trying to find a new job. My question to all of you is after DD was your WS, being really emotionally available to you and making love and talking deeply and all of that? I just need to know, to help me in this. Please respond

You will never meet a more remorseful person than my H. After DDay we talked more than we have ever talked, and on a deeper emotional level than ever. We both recognized the terrible assault on our M and had to reconnect and rebuilld from the mess. That's another reason to listen to me: He could NOT end the A on his own! He admits it. He thanks God that the OWH finally exposed them.

Sending out resumes will not end the A. He needs to leave that job.

Oh YES! And it was all a sham. She was still seeing the OM. It is called cake eating. READ what is here to be learned.

It took a month to pry her loose. Then she went into a nosedive and it took even longer to bring her back out. Then things got better and we moved down the path.

Lisa, I will only tell you what you need to hear. You are afraid he will lose his job. Yea, probably. Better make plans on it.

I think it finally dawned on him that he would likely lose his job. That scares him.

Larry

Oh yes! It is the rule, rather than the exception. As you can see, it means nothing. Your H is going to be with his OW on Monday.

What does it mean to "talk deeply?" Do you mean in a deeper voice?

Lisa, has the OWH been informed of the affair?

Same with my H. I told him to go be with OW and kicked him out. He begged me to give the M another shot. He literally broke down and told me he didn't want OW, he wanted us. We had the same experience with closeness and SF as you are having now. That's why it was such a shock to me to find out he was lying about OW again.

Re the cake-eating, many WS do this, meaning they are getting some ENs met by OP and some met by their spouse.

Talking deeply means sharing our inner most thoughts and feelings. He has really been sharing with me emotionally. He is not the type to be able to lie well about his emotions, he has allways worn his heart on his sleeve.

Then how was it that he was able to deceive you about his adultery for so long?

After you have seen hundreds (thousands for some here) of adultery situations, you see the common factors that are part of all affairs. Your husband has nothing going on that is unique except in your mind because a) he is your husband and thus your mind is clouded and b) because you really don't understand the dynamics of an affair.

This is called BS fog. It too is common and the initials stand for betrayed spouse and something else which in polite society is referred to as bovine excrement. Did you look up "Gas lighting?"

Adulterers lie.
Adulterers cheat.
Adulterers are like hooked on drugs.
Adulterers will do whatever it takes to get their fix.

It is what it is and the only ones who are different are serial adulterers who can gas light with the best of them.

Those can't be fixed. The rest can using what is taught here by Dr. Harley and supported by the forum.

We will keep telling you what you need to know and NOT what you want to hear. Each way you go at this point has consequences, just like the consequences of your husband committing adultery.

You can go the route of "Hope," or you can go the route of acquired knowledge and the help of people who have seen it all including the consequences of the "Hope" approach.

Larry

But he told you he LOVES HER. Can you see that this is an untenable situation??

You'll truly be in a good place when OW is out of the picture. He is still in an A with her. They cannot continue to work together. Did you read my exposure post?? Your H is no different than any other wayward. Don't delude yourself by thinking that.
Counselling is pretty much worthless when a wayward is in an A. Worst-case scenario: the counselor helps your H decide to "chart his own destiny" or some other new-age tripe like
that, and it will validate the A.
We are giving you building blocks, Lisa. Your first block is to expose the A and separate the lovers. THEN you can start rebuilding your M.

ditto this then it took me a while to finally wake up and look into what WH was really doing while at work. He of course was chatting up with OW ALL day.

They ALL say this. The truth is that he will never get rid of her because it's such fun having his girlfriend around all day at work. He told you the above to get you off his back about it.

If he's really "strong enough", he will be strong enough to get rid of a skanky homewrecker who has made a boyfriend out of a married man and who cares nothing tormenting his wife and destroying his family.

Tell him to let you know when he's THAT strong.

Oh, yeah, I remember DH telling me that at one point he actually thought he could keep the A at the office as an 'office thing' and not let it interfere with his home life. Crazy waywards.

He has been having an affair. He is a liar. He is the type to lie. He has been lying to you, Lisa.

I should add to my original response: my H was the same way, and continues to be so even today, over a year after D-Day. BUT: By DDay exposure had ocurred and NC was in place. You are not in that place yet. R cannot begin until the A is OVER. That means NC. The co-working setup has got to end.

I remember something that my H said to me before exposure: he turned to me out of the blue and said "I want us to rededicate to our marriage." He seemed so sincere. And it was a little puzzling, since I wasn't aware our M was in a state of needing rededication. Of course, I wasn't aware at the time that he was up to his eyeballs in an A that he was starting to regret mightily, that the OWH was hounding them and he was starting to defog.

Lisa, if you want, give it another few days to allow the people to chime in who've successfully recovered their marriages despite their spouses' continuing to work with or otherwise have regular contact with their affair-partners. Maybe some of them exist.

You say your H tells you he thinks he's strong enough to keep it professional. One of the big things I learned about myself from my affair was that I wasn't as strong as I had liked to believe. I knew I was in an affair that was bad & headed worse, and I tried to break it off after about 5 weeks (when it was still mostly at the emotional level). The only times I had occasion to see the other person were on Sundays at church and on Thursdays at music rehearsal. You can dig up some of my older posts if you want to know how my resolve turned out. And I was a man who never wanted to leave my wife, either.

I found all the lying & deception incredibly stressful, but like your husband, and like maritalbliss' husband, and many others, I managed to do it anyways, because I was hooked on the attention, hooked on the compliments, hooked on the idea that a married woman was telling me I was the best thing going, and that she would go to such lengths as to live a double life just so she could spend time with me. And she spiked my punch further by telling me (probably mostly lies & distortions) about how badly her husband (allegedly) treated her, so that in part of my screwed-up mind at the time, I even half-convinced myself that by engaging in an affair with this woman, I was helping her through a rough time in her life -- like it was some sort of charitable work, as wacko as that sounds to me now. Such are the lies "good men" can tell ourselves when we're in the fog of self-centeredness.

The smart way to show strength in the face of temptation isn't to stick around in its vicinity. The strongest, and smartest, thing to do is to resolutely put one's self out of its path whenever it appears.

Do you really you trust your H to be strong enough now, after he's demonstrated that he wasn't strong enough before? I'm not saying it's impossible, but the odds are against it. More likely, you'll turn your stomach in knots, wondering what he's saying to her, or she to him, when they run into each other in the corridor, or when they're alone in some cubicle, or at the end of a day when the project team needs to work a little late. Can you take a few months of that? Think it through carefully.

HERE


How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177


Gloveoil, Surely, you JEST? I have been here for 9 years and have never met one. They are in the same place as the alcoholics who magically sobered up while continuing to drink. Also, Dr Harley has been specializing in adultery for 35 years and he states absolutely, that RECOVERY IS IMPOSSIBLE UNLESS ALL CONTACT ENDS.

I can, however, point to numerous affairs that continued for YEARS because the affairees continued to work together. We did have one member named �LOR� who used to claim her marriage was recovered while the affairees still worked together. At last count, she CAUGHT THEM TOGETHER 9 TIMES. I have not seen her back here in 5+ years, though. I can also point to betrayed spouses who had nervous breakdowns or HUNG THEMSELVES from living in such an abusive situation, where every day they wondered what the adulterers were doing at work.

What qualifies you to refute Dr Harley�s most ADAMANT requirement for recovery? Based on WHAT??

But if you know how to recover a marriage where the adulterers stay in contact, please fill us all in and maybe we can tell Dr Harley.

Until then, I will not tell Lisa what she wants to hear at the expense of her marriage. I will tell her WHAT I KNOW WORKS. Telling her what we know DOES NOT WORK is irresponsible and RECKLESS.

GO, I should also add that I know people who smoke cigarettes who did not get cancer. I know people who have played Russian Roulette who did not get a bullet in the brain. Does that mean it is smart to tell newcomers to smoke cigarettes or play RR? Of course it's not.

It is utterly irresponsible of you to imply to this newcomer that she can recover her marriage while her H sees his OW every day. She is desperately looking for a way to cut that corner and you have given her FALSE HOPE.

You have given her advice that is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to what Dr Harley has advised for years and what we KNOW to work around this forum.

You have done this newcomer a terrible injustice and I would like to see on WHAT BASIS you contradict Dr Harley�s tried and true advice? Where is your evidence?

Mel,
I took it that GloveOil was telling her that very thing. That maybe somewhere in the universe was somebody who recovered their marriage while their spouse worked with the OP, but nobody here.

I took it that Gloveoil was saying:
Thats how I took it.

HUH? Maybe Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy exist too!

Like Mel, I've not seen one couple recover when contact continues - WHY? Because it is IMPOSSIBLE!!!

GloveOil, with all due respect, it is HARMFUL & IRRESPONSIBLE for you to contradict one of the things that Dr. Harley is most adamant about regarding marital recovery from an affair. I am very surprised that you would do this.

As FWSs, you and I both know how powerful the addiction of an affair is...This woman's husband is no different in his level of addiction...Affairs are very cookie cutter like that - and you KNOW this...

Mrs. W

This is why I think GloveOil is actually in agreement, maybe using sarcasm to try to make the point that the marriage will not recover while they continue to work together.

I also took this to be a bit of sarcasm. I hope that's what it was.

I got the same impression. I don't want lisa to get any false hope based on a post that might not have worded correctly, though.

As an impartial reader, I did not hear any sarcasm, and I doubt someone who is desperately looking for cover did either. If I can mistake such a comment, so can others. So it needs to be said that in my NINE years here, that NO ONE HAS EVER COME along who recovered their marriage while the lovers were still in contact.

here

This poster needs to accept NOW that this is not a corner she can cut and expect to save her marriage. It is impossible.

Whoa, whoa... I can put this one to rest easily enough.

I was being 100% tongue-in-cheek when I wrote "Maybe some of them exist." No one who has tried a "remain-in-daily-contact-with OP" approach to recovery has appeared here in this thread to testify that such an approach can succeed, and I don't believe any will appear, because I think that if there are such folks, there must be mighty few of them. I think Lisa seems to be hoping some such folks will appear, so I suggested she take a couple of days to test her theory/wishful thinking, because some folks only see the wisdom of advice with hard experience. Of course, she could save time by taking everyone's word for it who has spoken here, including mine.

t/j: Mel & MrsW, what's goin' on in our nation's midesction today? C'mon, you two are usually way better at getting a positive ID on target before you start blastin' away. [Jeez, I need an emoticon here for ducking for cover amid a hail of friendly fire... ;)]

Kiss & make up, y'all.

Lisa, you are getting pretty banged up here. However, you need to understand there is nothing but experience and compassion being offered to you. The words become more harsh the more you resist, but all that's being done here is to give you advice TO SAVE YOU MORE PAIN AND DECEPTION.

Maybe your H is one in a thousand, or ten thousand, or a hundred thousand, but for each of the posts any of us long term members have here, we have read hundreds, if not thousands more. Wayward spouses truly act as addicts, and simply cannot give up the affair that easily. Let alone when there is still contact.

If this comes down to whether you'd rather save his job, or your marriage, which would you pick? Because if you pick his job, you may very well lose both.

Think about it!

GO, being tongue in cheek with a desperate person who is looking for cover is not a wise tactic, IMO. I didn't get the joke and I am sure others didn't either.

There is nothing to be gained by telling her to wait a few days for something we know does not exist.

Mel, see me on "livingtolove"'s thread from a few days back. That thread seems dead (possible because some wiseacre scared off the foggy initator), so I don't mind t/j'ing it.

Lisa, let me chime in for someone who did not recover my M.

I came to this site a little too late in the game in Dec. The A started in June. The OW was my XWH direct report and I worked there also.

I was scared to expose. I did not want to be embarrassed (Was I in my own fog?), I did not want him to lose his job that he worked so hard for, I was worried financially about losing our house and everything that went with it.

I thought if I ignored it that it would stop.

I exposed in January and it was too late. XH moved out the October before and was totally addicted to this bimbo.

So he loses his job, would you rather have your M? I have my house and big deal it is a house and he is gone. My D16 has not talked to her father for almost a year.

Worried about finances? Do you know how much a D costs?

What is your favorite vice? Say it is chocolate and you know it is not good for you. So you say no first day, the first week, but when that chocolate is sitting in front of you every day -- guess what one day you will pick it up and eat it.

Think about that OW and your H in that cubicle. She was nervous because "she was caught".

Call her OWH, write to the HR department. Your H has crossed the line and what he has done is illegal.

Do you want to save your M or do you want to be like me as we speak my XWH is in Vegas with OW and maybe a wedding is happening as we speak.

Stop it now.

Staying totally open - it wasn't illegal, but immoral.(In most states - yours may be the exception.) But I have yet to hear about a company so callous that it will ignore the threat of a sexual harassment lawsuit. Thst'd hitting them in the wallet, dontchaknow

GO, there is no reason whatsoever to take this to someone else's thread when the issue needs to be discussed HERE on this thread where it was brought up. It doesn't matter if I am "sarcastic" on 100% of my posts, it has no bearing on the issue HERE on this thread. [besides, the mods kicked us off that thread and I don�t blame them - this has nothing to do with that thread]

What it appears you are missing, to the detriment of this poster, is that she is desperately looking for cover anywhere, anyhow. I don�t think you understand this poster�s desperation or you wouldn�t have posted that. And that is understandable. You have never been a betrayed spouse who was desperately find to a way to hang onto the STATUS QUO in the search for an easier softer way.

So, when you tell a desperate person that someone might come along who has cut this corner, you give her false hope to cling to. That gives her something false to hang onto. If even for 2 days, it just delays her acceptance. And even if someone did come along, it wouldn�t help her because she will never recover her marriage this way, period. So it doesn�t matter if this elusive person comes along.

GO,

This is such a serious situation - a WS continuing to work with the OP - with such huge ramifications to Lisa and the marriage as long as it continues, that it is my opinion that we can't be too careful - that even subtle sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek posts can be misconstrued and glommed onto by a fearful newly BS as justification for inaction...

To be clear though, *I* didn't get your tongue-in-cheekness - and if I didn't then it is certainly possible that Lisa or other new and lurking BSs wouldn't either - and that is DANGEROUS, imo...

Your saying that you were being tongue-in-cheek over something this serious tells me that you may not quite get how dire this situation is - or how under duress that new BSs that arrive here are - That is something I think you should give careful consideration to.

I know that your intentions are good, so I know that you will...

Mrs. W

Every year we have to sign an ethics agreement which includes manager/employee relationships. It is not illegal per se but against company policy. The sad part is someone did not do their job and it was never "proven". XH was removed from his position and they signed papers saying that they were not having an affair. Wonder how that will play out that they are getting M?