My wife told me two weeks ago that she has never loved me. Last night I spent 2 and half hours talking. I love her so much I cannot let go. She is giving US a second chance, but she doesn't know how long will be enough. She stated that she is a Wood Stove with no wood in her. I have been asking her what I did, she replies that I did nothing, and I did everything right and I played the married game well. She states that she needs to be true to herself. I understand that you have to be true to yourself, I just don't understand why after 7 years. She met a new friend (Co-Worker) he is a nice guy, but he has just broken up with his long term relationship and that when they started talking. I trust my wife that she is not cheating on me. But he is showing her the single life and that is what she wants now. I want to take her to counseling. She states that she doesn't want anyone to tell her what to do any more. I don't want to let go but looking at the situation that is the only thing I see that can happen. O yea I didn't state we have 3 kids that this is affecting. I love her so much that it hurts more than I can bear.

Befaithful:

Your wife is most definitely cheating on you right now, it just may not be physical yet...but that is just a matter of time. She is involved in at least an Emotional Affair (EA) which can be just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, to your marriage.

Dr. Harley's methods of Marriage Builders (MB) is the absolute best plan out there to break up an affair, and hopefully restore a loving marriage.

Please hit the "Notify Moderators" button on your screen, and ask the Mods to move your thread over to the Surviving An Affair forum. There are a lot of good folks in that forum that will help you implement Dr. Harley's plans.

Welcome to MB, although I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

LoBoy

Dear Befaithful,

I agree too that your W is having an affair. I felt the same way about my husband when I was having an affair. But you need to find out for sure. You need to collect evidence and do some serious snooping. Read these for starters:

Spying 101

For Newly Betrayed Spouses

Welcome to MB, Befaithful. You will find here tons of good advice. Follow the advice and you can save your marriage. Sorry about the situation you and your kids are in.

BF:

And don't put any credence into your WW's statement that "She has never loved you." I heard that one too, from my Ex-WW, as well as "I've never been sexually attracted to you.", "I married you with my head and not my heart", and "I married you because my parents wanted me to marry you."

Just about every betrayed spouse hears stuff like this, or worse...because while in an affair the Wayward Spouse (WS) makes up rationalizations in their head to ease their guilt over what they are doing...basically they re-write Marital History. We call that "The Fog" around here.


Don't believe it, and ask the mods to move your thread to Surviving an Affair.

BF,

I agree with the others, even though my H did not say those things to me, we have seen it so many times here.

Your wife is for sure having at least an emotional affair with this OM (other man) and is either considering or already has went physical with it. Please have you post moved if you want to save your marriage.

And sorry you are here at the best place none of us wanted to be at.

I Thank every ones thoughts I'm tring to figure out how to move it but I'm having trouble

Click on Notify, I think this was it.

now's the time to start fighting, she says she's giving "US" a "second" chance, but not sure how long...meaning, she wants to know if you can be as good or better as what she's found.

more than likely after 7 years of marriage and 3 kids, things have become routine in your marriage...it happens man...bills, work, kids...life...

use this EA as a wake-up call...stay proactive and snoop to make sure this EA doesn't get physical...locate the questionnaires on this site and have her fill them out...that way you'll at least have a fighting chance during this "second chance" she's giving you...let her know too that she's slacked off in meeting your needs too and you both need to work together to restore your marriage.

IF she's serious and the two of you start spending 15 hours a week or more in Undivided Attention meeting each other's EN's this EA should be nipped pretty quick...

my personal advice...study this MB's site...don not tell her about MB's...tell her you've been thinking and this is the plan you've come up with...own up to some of your faults...AO's, DJ's in the past and that you pledge to work on them...there's enough information on here to get you started.

hopefully, this EA hasn't gotten physical, but I'd know where she is at ALL times and if you know anyone she works with, I'd somehow try and get them to spy for you...if you trust them...

good luck!

BF, I am sorry you are here. And I am sorry to tell you that your wife is in an affair with her coworker. That is WHY she wants to split up. She is high on the addiction of an affair and that is why she suddenly is considering separation. She has a NEW point of comparison. Until you bust this affair up by bringing it out in the open, you won't really have a chance at saving your marriage.

The most impactful thing you can do to save your marriage is to get the goods and expose the affair. Cause as much conflict as possible for the affairees. That means exposure at work, your family, friends, the OM's girlfriend/wife; it means confronting the OM and tellng him to leave your wife alone. It is pretty common that adulterers lie about their marital status so this guy may be lying about his own situation. And your wife is probably lying to him. This is why it is a good idea to contact the OM and compare notes.

Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure ruins the affair fantasy. It is your most powerful tool.

Exposure

Hello and welcome to MB, Befaithfull.

Listen to what the others here are telling you, they couldn't be more correct. Chances are your W really is having an A; although it "may" not be physical, this does not mean it is not an A. EA's (emotional affairs) can be just as damaging as physical affairs can be (sometimes even moreso) and, often, EA's turn into PA's sooner or later, anyway. Now is the time to "nip it in the bud."

If you haven't started snooping yet, I would suggest you do so asap. Of course, you need to be sneaky and do your snooping unbeknowst to your W, so snoop carefully and use caution. If you can, check her cell phone records for "unusual" calls/texts, if she uses a computer try and find out what she does on it and who she talks to, etc. For more snooping tips, check out the "Spying 101" link that Niitse left you in one of the posts above. Whatever you do, "DON'T" let your W know what you are up to and "DON'T" feel guilty for doing so...you are trying to save your marriage (and that is a good thing, so nothing to feel guilty about).

In addition, do not let your W know about this place (for now, that is the last thing you want to do). Read everything you can here (spying 101 thread, exposure thread, surviving an affair thread as well as the Basic Concepts, Questionnaires, etc offered), there is loads of great advice to be found through these.

I am so sorry you have to find yourself here but, take note, your marriage CAN be saved and it can be a fabulous one if you are willing to take the time/energy/hardship that comes with trying to save it by using the advice you find here. Granted, it won't be easy (it never is) but it CAN be done so do your best to stick with the advice you are given here at MB...regardless of how difficult you may find it right now (it usually gets better/easier once you "learn the ropes").

You are not alone on this one, many of us here have heard the same thing ourselves and, usually, those words mean squat and are just used as a form of "self-rationalization" (this is often what waywards do to try and convince "themselves" that they have a good reason for doing what they are doing, making them think that their "wrong-doings" are, somehow justifiable). Don't feed into the "I've never loved you, I don't love you, I'm not in love with you anymore" (etc) lines; almost all waywards say that along with any other "excuses" they can find to make them feel better about themselves and to "lessen" (in their own minds) the wrong of what they are doing. If you really think about it, your W is just trying to come up with answers as to "why" she is doing what she is doing simply because she is "grasping at straws" trying to find an answer that she feels can be used as a "reason" for doing the wrong thing. This is all VERY typical action on the part of waywards, don't allow it to consume you.

Anyway, as sorry as I am that you feel the need to be here, I am still glad to have you here all the same and I sincerely hope you'll find the help you need. If you stick around and take advantage of the advice you're given...I honestly do believe you will!

Good luck to you.

are you guys happy ? and if you are how did you start your road to recovery.

Recovery cannot start until after the affair ends.

You can't persuade or guilt your spouse to end an affair. Exposure is the most powerful tool in your arsenal right now.

Do NOT threaten exposure, that is ruinous. Just do it.
Don't talk relationship talk with your WH right now at all.

Focus on:
Meeting his ENs and avoiding LBs (attract him back to the M)
No relationship talk
Exposure

About exposure:
--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell WS you're going to expose. Just do it. If WS has advance warning, they will tell their friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. BS is controlling and angry. BS won't talk to me, won't listen to me. BS is possessive and jealous, and accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, (s(s))he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OP has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a member of the opposite sex would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

veryone I need as much advice as I can get. I just talked to her on the phone and she opposed for making me miserable. I think I need to hang low and see what happens. Right now I cannot control my future with her she is the only one that can. I will be taking the advice and I will stop talking of the relationship and wait until she is ready.

WRONG BEFAITHFUL. YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE CONTROL HERE.

You are the one who is going to decide if you are going to make plans to recover the marriage or to divorce.

Have you read all of the material on here? We will be able to help you more easily if you have.

You are about to head into a VERY difficult journey that in the end will reap HUGE rewards. Are you ready for it?

Yes I am ready ....................... What ever it takes but it does take two to make it work. I love her so much that it hurts. I have allways just layed down my whole life but I guess I just need to man up and try take the situation and run with it holding on as hard as I can, and not letting go. I just do as everyone states.

BF,

Read the first couple of pages of the "Musings" thread linked in my sig line.

Also read this: How to survive infidelity

Be sure you have a good working knowledge of the Basic Concepts

Check out WAT's quick start guide for betrayed spouses and Longhorn's thread for newly betrayed spouses.

Gonna make you read a bunch here so hang in there.

Get the book Surviving An Affair.

Sorry you find yourself here under such circumstances, but under those circumstances you will find that this is the very place you need to be. You need a PLAN so that you can act instead of reacting to what she does or might do or refuses to do. This is the place to get it.

You can't "fix" your marriage in order to save it. You must save it first and then try to repair the damage and wade through the fallout. The folks here can help you with the task but YOU must act from your own strength and not allow your ability to do what is right in order to fight for your marriage to be determined by what she tells you or what she says or does.

No matter what you do you might win this fight or you might lose it. I can tell you that unless you give it your best effort, you will certainly not win and save your marriage. You don't have to be superman, but you do need to stand up and be the man your wife wants to be married to. It's time to cowboy up.

Mark

BF,

Don't kid yourself here, buddy, your wife IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. She's in an EA at least and don't be surprised if it's already gone sexual. If a wife talks to her husband about a separation, "needing time", "wanting space", or devalues/complains about her marriage (without sincerely commiting to work together on improving it),

SHE IS ALREADY IN AN AFFAIR 99% OF THE TIME

Listen to the people here and don't delay. Start snooping, get the info (it will be more than you imagined), and EXPOSE asap. All the stuff she's saying is for 2 reasons only (neither of them good):

1. She's rationalizing/justifying her affair and betrayal of you
2. She's making excuses to keep you in the dark so she can continue it w/o being discovered.

Get to work--Don't dilly around!

Befaithfull- First thing you need to do is look at your situation, perhaps just get legal advice so that you have your interests covered while you go through this whole situation. Your WS may feel this is a LB but no it is just you taking care of yourself.

Next I agree expose the affair, it isn't going to be pretty she is going to be very very angry however guess what she caused this situation.

You need to decide if you want to plan A or plan B which is to have her leave the house and have no contact with her unless it involves the children even then have a third party deal between you.

Right now you have to be in the drivers seat. If not you will be played over and over again.

You need to work on yourself now especially your self esteem.

She probably doesn't want to make you miserable however her actions show differently. You need her to make a choice either work on her marriage and stop seeing OM or leave. It can't be both ways.

Here is my plan A and B

A - I will do as she requestes tonight and tommrow is a day of just us and the kids, this is where I will ask her to stay away from him for a week or two as of rigth now so she can fugre out what she wants. I have acounler set up with an appoinment and I will ask her to come with so we can work this out. If she fights and says no I will kindly acept that and I will move to plan B

B - Have papers served to her so I can protect the kids and my self from her ( the one that is spinning out of control of her life.) Once that is complete I will wait intill she comes back if she does. Then we will be going to a marrage retreat or something along that line.

Any one is this a good idea ?

Befaithful, nobody here who is happy is so because WS came back to M. They are happy because they learned to find happiness regarless of their marriage situation.
WS will lie to you. My WH went as far as telling me that our M was arranged. Of course it was not! We both come from a culture where that does not happen...but this example gives you the extent of the stories they tell themselves so they can continue the A.
ALSO telling someone who you shared years of marriage with that you do not love him/her and never did is the most cruel thing one can do. Cruel. SO this too gives you another clue about who you are dealing with now. This woman is no longer the woman you married. She is someone else now and you have to believe zero of what she said and will say.
blessing

The part that gets me the most is I LOVE HER SO MUCH !!! I don't want to hurt her. Yes, I know she is kicking the living ______ out of me on the inside. But I look at her and all my anger goes away. When I'm way from her I'm just boiling. I don't know if I'm making rasional desisions or not I'm tired and A reck

You have to take care of yourself. Sleep? Do you sleep enough hours? If not you need to take a sleeping aid.
Do you eat well? If not do so and force yourself to do it. Buy a multivitamin and take it every day.
Stay away from caffeine and sodas and sugary stuff.
Also, you can be happy without your wife. You can. Sometimes for us BS who are faced with WS who will not give up the A it is a matter to answer this simple question:
Do I want to be happy or do I want to be with my WS?
Because, hon, as she is now I guarantee to you she will not foster happiness in your life.
blessing

No I have not been eating well I have lost to much weight in a little time. Food There are time I can not keep it down. I'm blinded by love I'm sure of it. But my heart is guiding me and not my brain.

Befaithful, the surge or love you are feeling for you WW is normal. It happens when things are taken away from us. Then more than ever we want them.
I know this is a silly analogy but really our ego works the same way in every case. Remember when you were little and you had lots of toys included those you took for granted and that you no longer played much with. Well what happened when a friend came to your house and started playing with one of your negletted toys. You all of a sudden wanted it back so bad and will try to take it away from your friend who will, in turn, not reliquish it. All of a sudden your interest for that one toy became a 1,0000% greater. Not to say that you did not love your WW before the A, but I maybe not to the extent you want her now.
blessing

I agree with what atena has said to you fully. The surge of love you are feeling for your ws is also the fear of change. Nothing will ever be the same again. You loved your life the way it was. You had a wife, kids everything you ever wanted. All of a sudden with no fault of your own it is being torn away from you. If anybody but your W was to treat you this way would you allow it? If a good friend came to you and told you he was going through what you are now living with what would your advice be?

Such a good thing you are going to counseling. You need to get ahold of your feelings.

One more peice of advice unless she gets help for the reasons she is having this affair even if you work it out and she decides she wants the family chances are it will happen again. ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER DOES SPEAK SOME TRUTH.

What Jilly is saying is so true. YOu WW needs to find the reason why she resorts to cheating when the going gets hard in the M. Cheating is a sick solution to a problem or to a lack of needs being met in a M. It is temporary solution but it is a sick choice. In other words...you have to be pretty broken and messed up to decide to open your heart to a complete stranger when you have a spouse and children at home who trust you and love you.
Your wife will cheat again if she does not take care of what makes her a cheater. My WH cheated again only 3 years after his first A when he refused to go to MC or counseling. Those 3 years in between A I was walking on eggshells and then the second A came and I was walking on thin ice. So I went thru he77 for 5 years now. Doing better, but only recently.
Take very good care of yourself!
blessing

BF,

NO, this is NOT a good idea and NO this is NOT what Plans A & B are. Please read the articles here and get up to speed on the plans and their elements ASAP.

Plan A is twofold:

The �carrot� is to cease all lovebusters (LBs) and do your best to meet her key emotional needs (ENs). You do this in a loving but strong way (don�t be a doormat, don�t beg & plead, don�t let her walk on you.) Just try to sincerely show her the type of man and marriage she once had (before the �problems� or disconnection) and can have again, if she chooses. You can�t force her to accept it and do not expect her to suddenly be swept away and reciprocate. You are merely trying to plant a positive seed in her mind and incentivize her to see her marriage as more worthwhile than her affair.

The �stick� is what you do dis-incentivize the affair. The affair MUST END BEFORE she can even start to think about recovery (R). You must be FIRM here (you love her, you want to work TOGETHER on improving your marriage, but her affair is unacceptable and you will not be her �backup man�). Cut off any and all financial support for her affair. If she is using joint credit cards or bank accounts to fund her activities with OM, then CANCEL them. You can�t stop her from doing what she chooses, but there is NO WAY that your (or comingled) funds should be paying for it. Most importantly, snoop, get the info, and EXPOSE to everyone on both her and OM�s side WITHOUT WARNING & ALL AT ONCE. She�ll be pissed�ignore it. The stick is the single best weapon you have to end the affair � you need one of them (usually the OM) to dump the other one ASAP.

Plan B is what you do when you still want R but Plan A has not broken up the affair:

Plan B means sending her and her family/friends a Plan B letter (PBL). Examples are here. The PBL is a loving but firm written notice that lays out your boundaries and basically says: �I love WW and want us to restore our marriage together in a way that better meets each other�s ENs. However, this is not possible currently as WW has continued her ongoing affair with OM. I must remove myself from this situation completely until the affair ends. Please do not attempt to contact me, and know that I will not contact you, until WW & OM have permanently ended their relationship. Respectfully, BF.� Then go completely DARK on her. No contact at all either way. Designate an intermediary you trust to handle child-care communications. Stay DARK until she truly ends the affair once and for all.

Here is what is wrong with what you proposed above:

A: Firstly, it sounds like you are trying to coddle her about the affair. You are setting the bar WAY too low. All you are asking is for her to �please don�t see the OM for a week or two, then you can figure out what you want and do whatever�. She will see you as a supplicating doormat who is willing to accept whatever relationship scraps she gives you in a sloppy-seconds format. She will walk all over you for being so weak. DO THE CARROT & THE STICK and make it clear that you will not settle for a ongoing affair-triangle. Secondly, DO NOT GO TO MARRIAGE COUNSELING WITH AN ACTIVE CHEATING SPOUSE EVER! Go to individual counseling for you only to make yourself stronger and more self-confident (which is ATTRACTIVE). MC with an active-WS is a waste of time until they have repudiated the OP. Your WW probably won�t go anyway and, if she did, she will turn it into a �lie-and-deny, blame-everything-on-my-BH-so-I-don�t-have-to-face-my-adultery� farce. Trust me�don�t put yourself there! MC is for LATER�i.e. AFTER the affair is OVER.

B: It sounds like you are confusing Plan B with Plan D (divorce). Don�t file for divorce unless you want to! You are handing her a get-outta-marriage-free-card if you do. Protecting yourself, your kids, and your financial well-being via a legal separation agreement (LSA) is fine and good in Plan B. Don�t file for D as a �bluff� to scare her�she will probably call your bluff and not ever take you seriously again if you back down. Plan D is NOT a marital recovery-plan�it�s either a personal protection plan if all the above fails or a perfectly acceptable personal choice if you don�t want to attempt R.

Please read up here and read �Surviving An Affair� right away�

BF,

Did you read any of the stuff I linked?