I just had a conversation with one of my daughters. She told me during a recent visit my ex wife was venting about how things are not going the way she had hope in her "new relationship". She then says to D "if your father and I were to get back together...."

Funny that the predictions here indicate that the affair excitement starts to bleed off around the 24 month time frame and it is about 16 moths for her. So this must be the normal cycle.

I have mixed feelings about this statement. It was not mentioned to me, but I am not sure I would be willing to get back together. How does one ever trust a person who causes such emotional damage to another. There seems to be an attitude of entitlement thinking I would be willing to get back together. I have worked hard at moving on establishing a new life, new friends, new job, new city. I am finally starting to get over the emotional grenade that was launched into my life two years ago.

My challenge is my convictions regarding my Christian beliefs. I do want to be faithful to what God wants. I know God hates divorce, and I can legitimately divorce my wife, as the 1 year waiting period (in Canada) and her infidelity allows me to.

But I struggle as there are a number of factors that get thrown into the mix. The issues surrounding history, family, friends. Is it possible to unscramble an egg?

She is still seeing OM however I am led to believe this affair may be coming to a conclusion. So I need to be ready.

So any of you who have been through this swamp, any ideas, suggestions, advice, or direction you would like to throw out there I would like to hear it.

Why be someone else�s leftovers? Why reward what she�s done by taking her back?

She�s made her own bed. Let her lay in it while you carry on with your life. Could you not do better than your ex?

I�ll admit the kids are a big factor in the picture, but you can�t sacrifice your own happiness to be with someone that time may have shown you to be all together wrong for you.

I wouldn�t take my ex back for all the money in the world. Well, it helps that I�ve happily re-married a wonderful woman. But I learned when I was dating that I could do sooooooo much better. My new wife is proof of that. My family loves her (neved did like my ex). My kids love her.

Wouldn�t trade it for anything. My ex leaving me may ultimately been one of the best things she ever did for me.

BC, look at everything and weigh the pros and cons. In the end it is up to you and what you want. If you decide to get back with your WW then I would take it slow and easy and get her to follow MB. I'm praying for you.

Changed from Traci_S to PhoenixRising65 because I am rising from the ashes to be reborn.

Take it a day at a time and continue to enjoy each day as it comes.

Her A may be crumbling, but that doesn't mean a thing..... yet!

Have you ever put together a list of what you would require in case she were to ask for another chance?

Here is a copy of my wife's list. She had plenty of time to think about it, while I was gone. Each item she required had specific meaning to her and would also demonstrate real character and heart changes. She did not want the same man back that had left her. She was only willing to accept a new man.

I am so happy for her! Could not have happened to a more deserving person.



Are you still holding a Dark Plan-B?





Not everyones marriage was like yours Pree-A.
Not everyone share your values/Beliefs of what marriage is, how long it lasts, and exactly what it is.

Gack,

I get that. But why settle for someone who left you and broke your heart after the Marriage ended? It�s not a question worth asking.

Yes, things pre-affair may have been great. I thought things were good on my end. Looking back, years later, I realize how much they sucked for me and how I was with someone who was draining every bit of energy and life out of me.

So I�m very happy now.

BC is asking for opinions. I�m giving mine. That�s all it is. Take it or leave it.

BCB,

One thing to keep in focus about the "I hate divorce" quote from God is that the context of it was related to how people (men in this case) were divorcing their wives to marry their affair partners. He was not talking about when one spouse has broken the covenant by committing adultery.

God talks elsewhere of issuing a writ of divorce to His "bride" Israel (the Northern kingdom) and how that should be a warning to Judah, His current "bride" at the time. His grounds for that divorce, BTW, were adultery in that she had run off to be with "other gods." She had broken covenant with Him and so His response was to cut her off and send her away.

However...

You knew there was one of those, didn't you?

When an affair is raging and we are being hurt day after day, we lose sight of the "facts" and "statistics" of affairs in general because our own pain is so great that we can't help but acknowledge our emotions. That is why Plan B becomes the best option for possible recovery for when the affair burns out, which almost all affairs do within a couple of years of discovery and confrontation...not all, but pretty close...

Adultery deals the "get out of marriage free card" to the betrayed spouse. It is up to each to play it or not. Some hold it in their pocket, to use as leverage for the future. Those people seldom recover. Play it or not as you wish, but don't use it as leverage if recovery starts.

Recovery MIGHT still be possible. But the ball is in her court right now, BCB. If she returns, broken, remorseful and repentant it could happen. If anything less is attempted, it will likely fail. If you are open to it, let it be known. If not, nail the door shut and move on. Know what conditions will result in either case so that you don't have to try to figure that part out later while dealing with the inevitable drama. Don't try to recover without a plan to do it and if there is nothing that can restore your love for her to where it was, then let it go...

Mark

Amen. I really think the sum total of Jesus' teaching on the subject should encourage you to consider yourself free if you desire after this kind of betrayal. I hate for someone to feel like they are held to a higher standard than Jesus Himself advocated.

BCBoy,
Yes God hates Divorce,but he also hates adultry also. You have a right according to the bible for divorcing her. As for taking her back, you are the stable one and that is what she wants. My XW has said that she is still in love with me a few times( my boys have told me). I have been remarried for 10 years and there no way if she was the last person on earth I would take her back. She is on her third husband after our divorce. My boys dont respect her it is hard on my boys. My marriage now gives my boys hope, that marriages are not filled with all the drama that they had when they were growing up . My house know is full of peace and love. My boys see the difference.

Blessings

Audioflyer

BCB,

I like the advice you have gotten especially from Mark. I have not been through what you are going through so take that into account when you read my response to you.

Let me review the "facts" as I see them and then you tell me where I am erring.

1. The affair continues.

2. You have no data/indications that she would want you back.

3. You are the same man she emotionally divorced and who she set out to leave.

4. You are as Mark and others have pointed out, Biblically allowed to divorce.

5. The woman your W is not is NOT the woman you married and loved.

6. You can now divorce her and proceed with your life.

All of this sounds very negative doesn't it? But, frankly I look at it as a positive. Let's say for dicussion purposes that you do divorce your W not that the waiting period is over. You and your life will change. Your W's life will change as well in fact you will do her the favor of making an "honest" woman out of her as she will no longer be having an affair. I know, I know a technicality but my point is you change game of life in unknown and subtle ways once you divorce her.

Now is that end of her in your life, yes it is if as Mark and others point out she does not step forward and address her actions and behvior. Could you remarry if she did make the appropriate changes and you found life with her attractive, yes you could? Should you? That depends on events as yet untold.

My point is simply you cannot anticipate what will happen, but the "facts" as I stated them are all that you have now. Based on them YOU need to make a decision. You cannot make a decision on what may happen. But, make no mistake if you decide to divorce her, you will change her life and your life, and that can be for the better depending on how you lead your life.

Her affair may end and that might lead her back to you even if you are divorced. Her affair may end and she may find yet another man, who knows? I don't, you don't.

Make the decision based on the best information you have. And then make that decision a good one by how you live.

I have confidence that her affair will end, and if it doesn't she will wish it had ended. People selfish enough to do what she and her OM have done rarely prosper because they carry the seeds of their own destruction.

So please make your decision based on what you know and realize that you may get her back or you may not, that is really out of your control. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

God Bless,

JL

Bravo JL. Good advice.

DITTO


.....especially like this line ......

You cannot make a decision on what may happen

I think there's a significant difference between a woman who asks, "Do you think there's any chance your father might EVER take me back?" and a woman who says, "If your father and I get back together..."

tl

I agree with the others and believe you still need to guard your heart! Why even let your mind go there when you don't know where your WAYWARD WIFE'S mind is at?

As I've gone through my D process there have been times when my WH has become very nice and friendly again and I started to think he was wanting to get back together. I had the same battle of the mind ('would I or wouldn't I?) until I realized that the times he was being nice was after a visit to his lawyer's and another plan to see how much he could screw me in the D. It was pure guilt, and not interest in me whatsoever. It was a reality check for me to realize that he is no longer who I thought he was (he's wayward!) and it's time for me to keep my focus and not let my progress and healing get sidetracked.

Just because your WW is having the inevitable hardships in her A does not mean she's coming back. Cross that bridge if and when it ever comes. And in the meantime, keep living your life to the fullest and trust God to guide you!

Exactly.

BCBoy, your xWW said this stuff to your daughter...undoubtedly knowing it would probably get back to you. Often, these WWs just want to "put out feelers" to see if you still "care about" them or "miss" them. This tends to happen when they are on the outs with the OM, just had a fight, or the "honeymoon phase" is ending. Once they have the re-assurance they wanted, they are back full-tilt into adultery-ville. My xWW did this too me too a year after our divorce in a phone call...her "new, conciliatory attitude" lasted all of a few days before she ran right back to sleazy-town.

Don't give it a second thought, don't drive yourself bonkers analyzing it, and don't play into her gamesmanship. If something "real" is going on with her, she will show it in her actions. She will leave OM and re-contact you personally (with a whole new attitude).

Until then, stay away and stay dark. Don't let her self-serving manipulations sucker you. She is still lost, two-faced, and disturbed and you want no part of a person like that. You deserve and will have better...whether it is eventually your (repentant) xWW or someone new.

Thank you all for your replies and input. I have attempted to be honorable in my actions and dealings. I have greatly appreciated the participants advice from this forum. I do want to ensure I adhere to the standards that are laid out in the scripture, yet there seems to be a number of interpretations. One of the issues is it has been indicated from scripture that if I do divorce that in order to follow the scripture is I am to remain single.

I struggle with that. I do not want to be alone. I want to share my life with someone. If I were to follow my desires I would have begun dating some time ago. I have not been. But I am starting to want to. I love the company of a good woman. I have met some that I would like to get to know further, but as I am in uncharted waters I am cautious. I do believe there is a price to pay for disobedience of the instructions laid out in scripture. I do not want to act hastily. But I do not want to be lonely either.

Can I do all this and still honor Gods instruction? There seems to be several interpretations. I had a discussion with a fellow tonight who is convinced he must remain single or reconcile with his wife. I am still trying to discern that even if I can divorce my wife, can I get remarried according to scripture? I am still searching.

Pep: I hear what you are saying about not making a decision about what may happen. I am not making a decision but trying to sort out what my response will be if I am confronted with a change in status. I recognize that emotions cloud clear thinking so I want to anticipate what may happen so I can respond appropriately and not react in haste.

It is a very difficult thing to let go. I am so thankful to the feedback as it helps cut to the core issues.
What is the potential of recovery based on her passed actions? What is her attitude?
Is she blaming me that she is involved in an affair because I did not provide an environment that her needs were met so she was FORCED to look elsewhere?
Would she be willing to accept and adopt the requirements of the coming home letter HerPapaBear kindly illustrated?

JL
Let me just say I am so grateful to you. It seems that I can always count on your sound advise and eloquent recapping of the facts to assist me in seeing through the fog. In my professional life I have been involved in strategic planning, and you would think that would serve one well in my circumstance. Yet I must confess that because of the personal nature of this most difficult event I have ever had to face, my vision is less than clear. Thank you as always I am humbled by your kindness.

To the rest, thank you for stopping by and offering your thoughts and ideas. I am forever grateful that a band of total strangers would take the time to try and assist a weary traveler.

It would be easier if all I had to do is follow my desires, the complexity comes when I believe I have been called to live to a higher standard. I want to ensure I fully understand the application, and the ramifications of that standard.

Thank you for this insight. I fear you are likely correct and I need to stay the course. I appreciate this insight. I have not traveled this road before and experience has taught me that the participants here can help identify and warn of the signs and events. I suspect from what you say is she is looking for the comfort of having an option if her CHOSEN path is leading to disappointment.

Thank you for this. That is a very significant differentiation and I had not thought of it that way. This insight has had a real impact on my the way I have perceived what is taking place. She is still feeling justified in her actions, and is assuming that if things don't work out with OM then she can just fall to option B. Hmmmmmm. Nice try.

Thank you Mark. I understand the justification of being able to get out of the marriage. And I do doubt if she would return remorseful or repentant, as I believe she feels justified. As her statement to one of the children that "this is what happens when you get as low as I did"

Can you offer any additional insight in the ability to remarry? I sense you have done some extensive study on this and I would appreciate your insight. I think I am beginning to see where this is going, and I need to prepare for that.

Your WW banged another man.

Your WW left you.

You should feel no wrong if you were to marry again.

However you will not be healed and ready to start dating and begin a relationship till one full year after the judge signs off and the divorce is final.

Most affairs end after two years. Being that you are unsure about restarting back with your WW you should wait those two years.

As other's have said ignore comments WW sends through the kids.
And don't responsd to the kids what you think about the remarks that they pass on to you. Remember they will pass things back which is not good. Stay dark.

You're likely to get a lot of opinions on the whole remarriage thing. I think Jesus' opinion is pretty much the one that matters, and He gave, in Matthew 19:9, the sole Biblical exception to the prohibition against remarrying after divorce: "fornication," or sexual immorality. You can Google this topic--"divorce, adultery, remarriage." I did, and it says there are 141,000 results. That should keep you busy for awhile! There's lots of research (and opinion!) you can read in that category, and the discussions also include the texts where no exception is given, and explain why.

tl

I agree with Neak's mom that Jesus's opinion is definitive, and states that when a marriage has been ended due to adultery you may remarry.

Heal first. Take those two years.

Follow Dr. Harley's advice for singles. He has a lot of it. Most of it doesn't involve filling out forms and communicating about needs, etc.

Don't have sex with anyone you're not married to.

There is one other case mentioned in 1 Corinthians 7.


Clearly even in this case, of a nonbeliever leaving a believer, it's a last resort but is permitted.

BC, when you look carefully at your situation you should look at it from a balanced point of view and this is only IF SHE asks to come back:

1. What does the Bible say
2. What has she done to your life
3. What does she add to your life
4. What does she subtract from your life
5. Is she able to love you, I mean REALLY?
6. Do you deserve love?
7. What do your emotions say (RUN)
8. What does your rational mind say (NEVER GO BACK)
9. What does logic say (YOU ARE BETTER OFF WITHOUT HER)
10. What do others you respect.. say (RUN)
11. What do others who know her say (RUN FAST)
12. What do the kids say
13. What would a "good" counselor advise
14. How much suffering do we need to take on before it becomes unhealthy?
15. Who is this wife of yours and why is she so selfish?
16. Who said you need to accept this cheater/abuser back?
17. What would be the most mentally healthy thing you could choose for yourself and your children?

There are many other things to look at such as the length of your life and how many years you put up with HER and how many years you have left to get a better life going WITHOUT HER. If you go back with her I would consider you to be more mentally sick that anyone else here. Sadly.

BCB,

Paul also gives us the example of an unbelieving spouse abandoning a believing spouse who is then free to remarry. He does state that the other way around is not an acceptable reason to divorce and remarry however. So when one becomes a believer in Christ, if the current spouse wishes to remain married, there is no "out" for the believing spouse.

I think he addresses this primarily because of a dynamic that can exist when a person is saved and their priorities and associations begin to change. It is too often the case that one spouse will begin to attend church where they encounter others who are also attending without their spouse and human nature being what it is, we tend to be attracted to those with whom we now have multiple common bonds.

I have seen cases where one spouse attends church for years while the unbelieving spouse shuns all things Christian, only to have a complete turn around later in life and the unbeliever becomes a believer and the marriage gets stronger and even better than when it was new. We have had a few instances of this in our congregation over the years, so as long as the unbeliever wishes to remain married, there is no justification for divorce in such cases by the believer.

Under OT Law, a marriage was a covenant. It was signified by an agreement to become husband and wife and remain bonded together for life. This was God's plan from the beginning and why He made the woman to be a partner for the man. I recently posted my view of biblical marriage on my Musings thread, so read that if you want more on this.

But also under The Law, adultery was forbidden. It was not just a breaking of covenant with a spouse but also with God. Israel was instructed to remove such sin from their midst by the punishment of death for the adulterous spouse, both men and women. Clearly, remarriage was not an issue for the loyal spouse under such circumstances since the original spouse was no longer alive.

Yet God Himself forgave the sin of adultery time after time and nowhere does He state that a betrayed spouse MUST divorce the adulterous spouse and remarry. David is a prime example. He committed adultery, then murder to try to hide the sin. It cost him dearly and even cost the country in some ways. Yet through it all, David is called by God "a man after my own heart." To see why, read Palm 51 which David wrote after he had been challenged for his sin by Nathan.

There is however one admonishment concerning divorce and remarriage under The Law that is often missed especially in circles where returning to the original spouse is suggested after an adulterous relationship becomes a marriage or affairriage. Under The Law, any person who divorces someone, then remarries and the subsequent marriage ends in divorce the original spouses are told that they cannot remarry each other.

Vows of marriage are to be for life. When those vows are broken by one spouse, they are no longer binding on the betrayed spouse as Jesus points out in Matt 19. Other grounds for divorce were allowed because of our human (sinful) nature under The Law, but that was not God's intent in the beginning when He brought the first man and first woman together. Jesus clarifies the intent in Matt 19 for us and explains that when continuing sexual sin is the case, the vows of marriage are no longer binding.

Steve Arterburn and others suggest that it takes about 20 to 25% the length of a marriage for a person to heal enough to be able to give to a new relationship the full devotion to the new relationship that is needed to make a marriage work. Until then we carry around the baggage of the previous relationship that remains so heavy in the early stages that it becomes impossible to actually become a single entity as marriage is designed to be. So a marriage that lasts 20 years might require 4 or five years to get over and one that lasts 35 years could take as long as 7 or more years before a person is really ready to move on with someone else.

As for remarrying the same person after divorce. As long as neither has subsequently married another person, under The Law, nothing precludes that possibility. JT (JohnsTwin) is such an example of this being possible, BTW, so even divorce does not need to be the end of the marriage in the long term, though remarriage by either and subsequent divorce seems to preclude this from a biblical perspective.


I don't have the references handy off the top of my head, but I can point you to them if you need them to make a decision. Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy all have pages of stuff that apply to daily life when it comes to rules, regulations and laws from God. Wading through them can be mind numbing if you try to make sense of them all and try to recognize where the various passages apply to the same thing or is the clarification of something already said as opposed to something that is an additional law or rule for governing our daily life.

Also keep in mind that many Christians tend to think that Jesus abolished the Law. He tells us that is not the case and that He came to fulfill it instead. But whenever pressed for an interpretation of the Law, Jesus did not do away with ti, but raised the bar to a higher level. For example He points out that under the Law adultery is forbidden. He then says that anyone who looks at another woman with lust in his heart has already violated that commandment. He does the same with forgiveness, showing concern for our neighbors etc.

Also remember that one of God's most important aspects is GRACE... He requires much but allows for our failures. Micah 6:8 says;
"He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God."

Mark

This scenario allows for a lot more jiggering of facts, and rationalization, I think, for someone who wants to remarry in the absence of adultery on the part of the former spouse. Fortunately for BCBoy, his situation falls clearly in the unambiguous "except" given by Jesus Himself. Legally and morally, Biblically speaking, he has no impediments. When he's personally ready is entirely his choice.

s

This is what I understand as well. This deals with the issue of the dissolution of the marriage. However what about the issue of remarriage? Currently I am not in a relationship of any kind. However I am human and want company. So because of the actions of my wife committing adultery, does that put her in the position, or do I then consider her an unbeliever?

If I can consider her an unbeliever then I am free to remarry from what I understand. But if she claims to believe in God is seeking her happiness, and God wants her to be happy, then am I still bound to the bonds of marriage and I am obligated to remain single? If I do not want to remain single and remarry then from what I currently understand I am in an adulterous relationship.

According to the scripture I am then sinning against God and my own body. And the wages of sin is death. Is this a spiritual death? Is my only choice to walk away from my faith if I want to remarry, and my wife claims she is a believer? Do her actions nullify her words? This is a tough pill to swallow, if I am unable to remarry because of this.


This may be true. However the clock is ticking and life moves on. The body continues to age and eventually you may run out of time. I am not sure if I will be able to follow through on this one. It may be true, but you can also die from the broken heart of loneliness. This may be the right way to go about things, waiting, but at what point does desire for companionship outweigh the need for waiting for "complete" healing?

This stuff ain't easy. I cannot imagine anything more traumatic than a relationship break down. Blessings to my fellow travelers.

BCBoy

Bubbles4U
You certainly have a way of cutting to the chase. I agree with you that under the current circumstances I do not have any desire to reconcile. She has behaved poorly, has treated me abusively, acted selfishly, and disregarded her faith.

This relationship cannot be restored. It would need a resurrection. A complete new start. I do not believe that will happen. So thank you for assisting me in appeasing the distress I feel for my marriage not succeeding.

I am justified in divorcing my wife. I do not treat this decision lightly, as I believe in a God of restoration and miracles, and it would be a miracle at this point for her to be able to enter into a marriage relationship. It has become apparent the immaturity and narcissism that has been brewing under the surface for years has taken root and is flourishing in the garden of her own desires.

However her behavior does not release me to act in a like manner. I feel a responsibility to try and be an example to my children, who's faith has been shaken by the breakdown of the marriage. I can understand how they are questioning when they see behavior that is contrary to what they were taught.

I no longer want to suffer at the line of reconciliation. I do not want an unhealthy marriage. And I do not want to contravene my faith.

Blessings
BCBoy

I'm not sure where you get all of this out of Matthew 19. Your wife committed adultery, and if she had not done that, then yes, divorce and remarriage for you would be adultery. But since she has, I do not know why you would think you are not free to remarry after reading the words of Jesus.

I'm scoping out nursing homes now in anticipation of my dating eligibility....

Go back and re-read. You have complete Biblical freedom to divorce and remarry.

tl

Thanks - TL the issue I have wrestled with for some time a I have been in contact with an individual who has indicated to me I need to remain single by his interpretation, and that likely colored my view. There does seem to be different points of view on this depending on who you listen to.

He is wrong, and you are WAYYYYYYYY over complicating this.

Divorce her and re marry.

There are some fundamental differences in interpretation, on the subject of remarriage after divorce, between Catholic and Protestant views. It is possible that what he said to you was colored by his personal faith tradition. Any more than that, I'm going to let you check out yourself, since I've got no desire to start a religious war here.

tl

BCB,

Jesus said: Matthew 19:8&9 (NIV)

The admonishment here is that divorce for just any old reason you can dream up is not allowed. Jesus states that this does not apply in cases of marital unfaithfulness. The word used here for marital unfaithfulness in the Greek is porneia which is the root for our word pornography. It's implication speaks to sexual and self serving/self indulgent sexual activity though the word adultery is not directly used, though it falls under the definition as one such application of the word. It also implies an unrepentant or ongoing condition. The Latin uses the word fornicationem which is our source of the word fornication, which has a broader meaning than just adultery which is a married person having sex with a person that he or she is not married to. It can describe multiple sexual sins, among which is included adultery as defined by the Ten Commandments.

Do not muddle things up by including the I Corinthians 7 passage in your situation. It clearly does NOT apply under the current discussion. Clearly your wife has committed adultery. She is currently living with another man. According to Jesus, the prohibition of remarrying does not apply to your situation since it was the one exception to remarriage after divorce that Jesus makes very clear. His words, "except for marital unfaithfulness" make it very clear that prohibition of remarriage does not apply in such cases.

Once you are divorced, you are free to remarry. You are not obligated to remarry your wife, even if she turns her life around, though THAT decision is entirely up to you, but it is NOT required. If she repents, you are obligated to forgive her, but that does not imply that you can't marry someone else and let her go. But forgiveness has to do with grace and your remarriage has to do with what is just and right in the eyes of God.

Mark

Mark
Thank you for this. I appreciate this so very much. You have given me yet another reason to appreciate and respect your insight and diligence.

BCB,

Are you feeling better now? Are you feeling a bit more focused now that you realize your future is yet to be determined? I hope so.

JL

BCB,

I've been very interested in your thread as I have conflicting feelings on this same issue. My WH and myself started out together in the ministry although I am now wondering if following God was just a career opportunity for HIM. My relationship with Christ since I was 14 has been my center. I didn't turn my back on him just because things didn't go my way.

I come from a strong Christian family and this whole A has me pining away about my future. This discussion has been ongoing between myself and my parents for several days. My mother quoted the Math 19 that was referenced by several here. I agree with Mark....I think we are free to remarry and it's clear in that passage. Another point brought up by my parents is that Jesus also said the when you've broken one, you've broken them all.

The point being is that as humans, we catagorize sin, but God does not. Sin is sin in God's eyes. Why is it that divorce is the only one that is harped upon in the church?

I love the reference that was made earlier about covenant and Israel. I think it's a perfect example.

JL
Thank you for checking in. And yes I am feeling better. Somewhat like coming to a resolution in many areas of my life. I have been mulling this issue over for sometime and I wanted to vet it through MB to get feedback.

So what have I resolved?
1) My marriage will not be restored. It needs to be resurrected. I do not believe my wife has the ability to do this.
2) I have waited a sufficient time. I have not made a hasty decision, I stood at the line of reconciliation and was kicked.
3) I am better off to divorce this woman as she shows no signs of remorse, or humility, and has all the earmarks of entitlement and narcissism.
4) I will continue to stay the course of trying to be an example of stability for my children.
5) I will continue to enforce the boundaries I have established.
6) I will continue to seek emotional health
7) I will live a fulfilling and engaged life living by the golden rule.
8) Pay it forward whenever possible.

Thanks

9) I will turn it over to God

Mark is clearly a man who basis his understanding on actually reading the Bible and the words of Jesus. I encourage everyone who wants to live by the standard of Christianity to "Go, and do likewise."

I particularly agree with "Do not muddle things up by including the I Corinthians 7 passage in your situation. It clearly does NOT apply under the current discussion."

So BC, are you clear that you CAN re marry once you have divorced this woman?

On a more touchy feely note, The lord loves you. Do you really believe your heavenly father would want YOU punished for the rest of your life due to the sins of your STXWW?

Because I don't

Wow. Exactly!

You sound like a very spiritual man.

Please speak to your pastor/priest about this and don't take the word of some well meaning people on an internet forum.

Remarrying is a very tough subject and may or may not be as easy as some would believe.

You especially don't want to "take the word of some well meaning people on an internet forum" when they are directly quoting the words of Jesus Himself. (Unless you believe that pastors and priests are much better at telling you what Jesus said than He is Himself.) One of my favorite preachers liked to recite this little verse:

"What says the Bible, the blessed Bible?"
This my only question be.
The teachings of men so often mislead us.
What says the Bible to me?

I would agree that there are many Bible texts which invite multiple opinions, and have to be studied, compared with other, plainer texts, in order to find the correct meaning. Matthew 19:9 is NOT one of them. Choose the unambiguity of Christ as opposed to the obfuscation of men.

tl

The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things...

To understand the true meaning of any passage you have to keep several things in clear focus:
1) What is the context? This has as much to do with the audience, the time, the circumstances and the current culture as it does to the words themselves that surround the passage.
2) Is the passage using simple communicative methods or is it using literary methods such as hyperbole, metaphor, irony, etc?
3) Is the passage an analogy meant to demonstrate or reinforce a particular point or does the passage simply state that point?
4) Does the passage make a claim to be the words of God, such as when a prophet says "Thus says the Lord" or is it describing the actions and interactions of men, not all of whom can be said to be doing what God requires?
5) Is there some very clear message that is being conveyed that is applicable to your circumstances?
6) Does what you understand the meaning of the passage to be agree with other things that the scriptures have said are the will and commands of God as opposed to being something that is off the wall and in direct opposition to any other passage?
7) Whenever possible, the original language of transmission should be compared for similarities and differences in meaning, this is also part of context in some cases.
8) What do those who have already studied the passage in depth have to say and what is the predominate understanding of the passage?
9) What is the subject of the passage? Is it addressing a specific idea or command of God or is it the idle musings of the author? Paul for example will often SAY when he is offering an opinion and not something he believes is God's specific will for the circumstances.
10) Scripture always needs to be used in interpretation of scripture. A single text cannot be pulled for context to support a pretext. The final authority on all scripture is scripture itself.

In the Matthew 19 passage:

Who is Jesus addressing and what were the cultural norms of that day? What specifically was Jesus discussing with them? They asked a question and He was answering it. What was that question and does it have any reference to the topic of divorce? Is there some other way to understand the topic or the words of Jesus that would indicate that the clear words He spoke to those listening meant something other than or beyond what He was saying? Are there other passages that clearly state that divorce following a faithful spouse being betrayed through adultery cannot remarry? Under what context and what circumstances where those words given to us?

We could analyze this passage for days and I am not sure that anything we came up with would indicate that Jesus did not mean exactly what He was saying. Divorce for just any reason is not permitted. Then he makes one single exception to that rule and sates very clearly that the one thing that does not apply to the question is marital unfaithfulness. While we might argue as to whether or not viewing porn is considered such by God or if refusing to support the family because you spend all your money at strip clubs means the same thing and is a viable reason to be allowed to remarry following divorce, adultery clearly falls into the category of marital unfaithfulness and so I think the passage, in context, under these circumstances clearly applies to the situation being addressed in this thread.

Samuel Clemens said, "Some people are troubled by portions of scripture that they do not understand. I am most troubled by those that I do understand."

Mark

BC, another point added to all the above wisdom of this board is this:

It is easy to "fall asleep" and believe a person's mere WORDS and WHAT THEY SAY when they claim to be a Christian or believe in God, etc.

I did that all my life. Then I found out that ANYONE, even the EVIL ONE himself, can say they are a Christian. ANYONE can say they live for Christ. ANYONE is welcome to go to church.

But very few of these people are living a Christian life which stresses actively loving God and others and living accordingly.

If a person is hurting others by thier actions and they are not remorseful and continue on hurting other precious people (people who are loved by God), then they are not living any kind of a Christian life.

You must not "fall asleep" believing only somebody's WORDS but remain on the alert and AWAKE and observe:

1. How they treat other people
2. What motivates them in life
3. What kind of life do they choose to live
4. How they justify hurting other people
5. If they are motivated by love in all that they do
6. How much self-interest they have
7. If they love others, or just USE others.

There are many other things to observe when thinking about if a person could be considered as living a Christian life. But the important thing is to look at thier actions, not thier words.

By the way I do not judge a person anymore or try to say they are a Christian or a Non Christian.

I just view thier life, the fruits of thier life, the actions they do everyday and how it affects those around them, and the level of love they have for others,

And I can tell where thier hearts are. And that is all I need to know about them. Then I either let them come close to me or keep them out of my life.

Toxic damaging selfish people are OUT OF MY LIFE FOR GOOD. I cannot and will not accept this toxicity in my precious life only to drag me down and hurt me and other people.

scary

I meant no harm and was not commenting one way or another on a particular verse in scripture. I just thought he should speak to the person in his life that leads him on his personal spiritual journey, namely the leader of his church.

Seemed reasonable.

To all of you who have helped me walk through this I want to say thank you. I want to recognize what JL, Mark, Bubbles, Thundernlightning Markos had to say. I have been pondering the responses on this thread over the past week. I have read and re-read and I must say the impact has been dramatic.

I am wondering if anyone else has gone through the process where your thoughts of restoration of the marriage is what you focus on and hope for. Then one day it feels like something has dramatically changed. The feeling and the desire to restore the relationship evaporates. I feel like my obligation has been discharged and I cannot explain why.

As I read over the posts there are some significant issues that have helped me sort things out.
1) You have helped me realize I am free to remarry is that opportunity arises.
2) The recognition that the person I married is not the person that is there now
3) She is cake eating by thinking she can have a plan B - I will be there if things do not work out for her with OM
4) She claims to still believe in God yet her actions do not line up with her beliefs.
5) She feels entitled to continue with the affair as she has stated - "this is what happens when you get as low as I did"
6) She will not take responsibility or consider that she had any part to play in the breakdown of the relationship. She was not honest about her feelings.
7) I am becoming more confident in myself - that there will be an honourable, trustworthy, reliable woman out there who can love me back. And I will meet this person when the time is right.
8) That I need to listen to some of the feedback from my children and friends that feel that something has "snapped" and her behaviour is erratic and surprising. And the feedback that she seems obsessed with OM. When they are together all she can talk about is OM and how he is letting her down or times they are having fun. How he seems self absorbed, but they have fun etc....
9) I am finally realizing that she is only interested in how she feels. She says she has to follow her feelings and not just rationale. I have learned she may be stuck in her early teen years emotionally, and is stuck in her maturity development.

It has been a long painful process. I have heard that Plan B helps protect ourselves emotionally and helps preserve the remaining love for ones spouse. I have been in Plan B and I no longer feel like I have love for my spouse. As JL pointed out I feel like I don't know this person any more. Is this normal to feel this way? This release I feel, is it normal? Is this just the impact time has on a person?

BC I am so glad you are becoming settled with this issue.

Seems like whenever a big life changing issue comes up that we need to deal with, it takes the mind a while to chew it over, work it over, look at all the facts, look at all sides of it, look at the pluses and minuses of the different choices,etc. It is A LOT to go thru for the mind. And emotions, and the spirit.

You have a complex thing here, but like a tooth extraction, it is almost done:

You have a combo of things your mind, body and emotions have had to chew over. This has been brought on by her selfish, cheating, hypocritical, non caring behavior. It is not something YOU wanted but something SHE caused.

You have here:

1. A difficult issue
2. A spousal issue
3. A decision to be made of how to handle it
4. Guilt issues
5. Spiritual/God issues
6. Seeing your wife as she is not what you want her to be
7. Looking at selfishness when you are not selfish yourself.
8. Facing some of your fears
9. Lining up plans for yourself to deal with this
10. Thinking of other relationships someday
11. Your children, what they say, what they want, what is best
12. What God wants
13. Dealing with all this in the midst of your dissapointment and pain due to your wifes cheating.

All this is a lot, and you have been chewing on this for a while now. Finally your mind has grasped most of it and the chewing part is almost over!

Good going, it is a long process! The results will be positive. Keep on progressing in your lifetime journey.

So when does it matter when you end Plan B. I realize now that if I see my wife it will not matter any longer. Somehow in my mind she is a stranger to me. It is almost like an acquaintance that you once knew but no longer.

This is so weird, that once my heart felt torn but now it does not seem to matter. It is like it is done. I could run in to her at my kids place and it feels like I would be running in to a stranger, which she is now.

How does this happen? Is this the healing property of time. I am amazed at how this has taken place. I am analytical and it is bothering me that I cannot find an explanation on how this transpires. I believe we can learn from the challenges we have in life so we can pass along what we learn. Right now I could not explain how this happened. It just changed. Has anyone else experienced this?

Blessings
BCBoy

**edit**

when illusions end...what is left?
Reality.
You are aware of who your wife is now. You see her for what she is really, not the things you attributed to her that were never there.
If she was ever so great how come that is gone? What is real is never lost. What comes and goes is just an illusion, it is not love. Love stays.
If we could see life always with this sort of awareness then we would have no trouble at all.
We would not put people on pedestals and see them as wonderful.
Time has nothing to do with this. Having suffered and surrendered to it has brought you the solution you needed.

blessing

Yes. BC you are now rooted in the TRUTH of the matter and the TRUTH of your wife. Whenever you are rooted and "walking in" the TRUTH it is really nice.

TRUTH banishes fears, doubts, confusion, etc. I dont know why the TRUTH is so simple and powerful and wonderful....

But it is all that and more!

BCB,

I'll start with a quote that I have always found to be very profound

You have arrived whether you wanted to or not at the state that is "the opposite of love". I does come as was just stated when you see the person she is now, and realize that the person you married is no longer that person.

We all change, and marriages change. Our changes can lead us to grow together or to grow apart. It would seemed your W grew away from you. She has allowed you a very clear out of the marrigage Biblically. In my opinion she has allowed you to remarry if and when you decide to do so.

But, mostly she has allowed you to see the woman she has grown into and for you to see her current value system. The fact that you do share her value system indicates she grew away. The fact that you no longer feel much for her means you are clearly seeing the situation the currently exists.

I believe what has happened with regard to your feelings is very normal. It is part of the healing.

God Bless,

JL

BC,

By now you know intimately how the Love Bank model works.

If we spend time with someone, with them meeting ENs, doing nothing to take away love units from their account, they build a balance in our Love Bank until the romantic threshold is passed and we are "IN LOVE" with that person. In most cases, we do the same for them and they fall in love with us as well.

Well, guess what happens when you don't spend time together, don't meet ENs for each other, only make withdrawals from the old Love Bank by hurting each other and doing nothing to sustain intimacy and maintain a high balance...

Care, Protection, Time and Honesty lead to feelings of being in love.

No care, no Protection, no Time and no Honesty lead to not feeling in love...

It's how we drift apart in many marriages and how we stop loving someone.

The tag line from the radio show sums it up for us: "Why do we fall in love? Why do we fall out of love and how is love restored?"

It's really a very simple model. If you do A, the result is B. Don't do A and there is no B, only an X...

I know you knew that, but I haven't posted all day and was having withdrawals.



Mark

OK am I dreaming or what?

Since I posted here about my decision I cannot believe what is happening in my life. Today I have had four different women show significant interest in going out with me. Now I have not asked them, or indicated that I am looking. I am not planning on acting on anything until I get my papers filed.

Is somebody trying to tell me something? What a confidence booster. It just makes me feel good to think that one classy lady would like to spend some time with me, but four different ones, in one day? This is after nothing in two years!!!! Do we give off some kind of chemical once we make a decision? All I can say is bizarre. It certainly gives me hope for the future, but somebody pinch me cause I need to wake up as I must be dreaming.

Thanks guys for all your support and encouragement. You truly are a special group of individuals.

Blessings
BCBoy

Just be careful with new women....you know how a woman can hide her selfishness and appear to be nice. You will have to go slow when you date and protect yourself until you have observed them for a long time and judged them to be non toxic and trustworthy.

Divorcing your current wife shows that your life is going toward MENTAL HEALTH. It shows that you value yourself. So others can now see that you are valuable since you value yourself.

If you were willing to put up with your wife's selfishness and cheating behavior, then that would show to everyone that you did not care for yourself nor value yourself.

Right now, you are feeling that you value yourself enough not to take abuse. That is very good.

Good for you BCboy, enjoy the feeling......

I am replying to this post as so many of the participants provided me with thoughts and input that was very valuable to me at a time of crisis in my life.

Things change. So here is an update of how a persons situation (emotions, feelings, actions, faith) can evolve.

1) Thanks to the care and input provided by many of the posters here at MB I was able to get over the agony of my marriage breaking down.
2) I have recovered emotionally and have moved on to building a new life
3) My wife moved in with the OM fall of 2010
4) I have gone through the process of forgiveness toward my wife. (Let God deal with her and let her be responsible for her own stuff)
5) Just because I have forgiven does not mean I have forgotten the issues, and I choose not to trust her any longer (boundaries are in place)
6) I am able to attend family (the kids) functions when she is there and we are able to be cordial.

So now TODAY!!!!
Beam me up Scotty as there are strange happenings on this planet.

The situation:
As predicted by the fine folks here on MB life with the OM is proving to be a disappointment for her. Her expectations are not being met. All is not perfect in paradise. She wanted to get married to this guy, but he did not want to get married, so she settled and moved in with him. Now they are both having health problems. And life with him is not what she expected it to be. She is unhappy.

I recently attended a family function where ex wife indicated she might want to get together. I pointed out that she was living with OM and had made her decisions and I had moved on. I stood at the line of reconciliation for 2 years and she chose to stay with OM. I told her that I have moved on with my life and what we once had has been broken. The trust is gone, and I have established a new life. (I am doing well, involved in a new church, new job, new friends, new city etc...)

Today I get a message on my phone that she feels I am being vindictive. (I continue to be the villain)Because we had been married for over 33 years and that should carry sufficient weight for me to re marry her as she is now willing to consider getting back together. Of course all this could have been avoided if I had been a better person to begin with. She was forced to do what she did because of me. (Here she has justification as I was working long hours and had little idea about meeting emotional needs, until I was educated here. So for those of you who don't think EN's are of vital importance, think again). But as far as she is concerned it was all my fault and she is blameless. If I could just admit that it was all my fault we could get back together and she might be happy with me now.

I on the other hand do not have any desire to get back with her, as there is this little issue surrounding an EA with a neighbor, and then putting herself out on an internet dating site, dating 4-6 men and finding this new love of her life and eventually moving in with him. Funny thing about Adultery it has the ability to erode the foundations of a relationship. She shows no remorse, and is anchored in Blaming, Guilt and Shaming. Somehow now she has changed her mind, I am supposed to be excited about taking her back into a marriage. Hmmmmmmm.

So for all of you struggling with the issues of Adultery and Infidelity take heart. It does get better. Do what so many suggest and work on YOU. Once you process the issues you face, you can begin healing.

Thank goodness for the kind folks here. I can affirm they helped me immensely. These understanding and caring folks helped speed the healing process.

Hang in there it does get better.

Oh BCboy, if this wasn't about real life, it would be hilarious. I hope you got her with some good ones. Like when she said that you two could get back together if YOU admitted you were wrong, I hope you said, "Well I can't so I guess we won't." Or something like that.

She is still so foggy.

Thank you for sharing.

Of course. Like a typical WW, she's blaming you for her choices.

Why aren't you in a permanent Plan B with her?

I am not in permanent plan B with her because I no longer need to protect myself emotionally. I let go. I do not feel the need or have the desire to hold any grudge or see justice done. It was hard on my kids when it came to special occasions. So I chose to make it easier on them, because I was capable of letting go. I forgave for me, not her. I let go of my claim on being justified to feel hurt. I processed the pain and the emotions and emerged out the other side. I no longer feel the need for payback.

That is the beauty in working on becoming the best me I can be. That is why the posters here continually encourage the betrayed spouses to work on themselves. It has long term benefits. I no longer have any anger toward her. I no longer feel the need for any form of payback. Forgiveness is the gift you give yourself. I no longer carry the burden. Do I trust her? No. However I will treat her with courtesy and respect. Do I have the desire to be emotionally open and vulnerable with her? No. Instead I choose to focus on the realization she gave me 3 invaluable gifts, my children, and for that I am thankful. She is responsible for her actions and behaviors. I am responsible for mine.

As Just Learning so eloquently reminded us. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.

FWIW, I think the most appropriate response to her wayward drivel would be,

"Gee. You know I once used to spend lots of time thinking about recovering the marriage, but those times are long past now. I realize that my feelings about you just might be that 'I love you, but I'm not "in love" with you.' Know what I mean?"

HaHaHa @ Schoolbus !!!!

BcBoy,

I am so glad to hear your update. It seems you have indeed moved on and gotten into a life that brings you joy.

I would be strongly tempted respond to her email. I do not know if there is another in your life, but let me guess if there is she would have the following attributes:

1. She loved you and cared for you.

2. She looked to make you happy.

3. She respected you and valued your opinions.

4. She knows you and likes the person she knows.

5. She shares her life with you and takes responsibility for her actions and feelings.

6. She is honest.

7. She has the capacity of forgiveness and empathy.

8. She has a moral foundation that make me comfortable with her.

I would be tempted to say: Yes exW we could perhaps get back together, but I need a W who:...

And then I would provide that list and say, "I want such a woman in my life." And then I would leave it alone.

Just thoughts. She is still thinking in a wayward way, or to use the analogy she is thinking as someone who is addicted to alcohol or drugs, it is all about her.

You can make your own list, but I think it would be fair to point out what you want our of the woman that would be your mate in the future.

God Bless,

JL