First of all, I cheated on my current wife for 10 years, with 16 different women. I was "outed" last December, 11 months ago, by a girlfriend's husband. It was the best, and the worst, thing that's ever happened to me. On the positive side, all my secrets, my double life, my worries about being found out...were all gone. Everything was out in the open. What a relief. I had always felt horribly about everything I was doing, but never could stop, though I tried again and again. I went to a program for sex addicts, but after going for 4 or 5 months, I began to feel like I was out of place. I began a "Journey" with some other men in my area, and found that a relationship with Christ was the only thing that could fix my issues. That being said...I haven't had any extramarital affairs, except for one slip in February (9 months ago). I'm not saying I'm perfect, or "fixed". If I felt that I was ok, I wouldn't be here posting.

A couple months after being found out, I caught my wife in a text conversation, which soon led her to confess of an affair she'd been having with this guy for the last year. She promised to end it, but since she was going through all this stuff dealing with me, and all the lies I had told her, she kept him just as close, because he helped her cope. I thought it was over with them, since she kept telling me it was, until I showed up one evening, a day early from a biz trip I'd been on. His car was in my driveway. Needless to say, I had a few things to say to both of them before sending him packing with a wagon of threats behind him. According to both of them, it's really over now. However, she absolutely refuses to delete him from her friend list on facebook. She says she never talks to him or anything, just needs him there for comfort. You can imagine how that makes me feel, that she needs comfort from her former lover.

We have been trying to make our marriage work for the last 9 or 10 months. I have learned a lot about myself in the process, but it doesn't seem to be doing me much good. One thing I learned is that I need emotional connection, just as much as any woman. The difference is that I GET emotional connection FROM physical connection, at least partially. This is the problem I'm posting about. My wife feels so much pain from everything I've done, all the wrongs, that she can't be intimate with me. But I need intimacy to feel loved. She says I'm meeting her needs, but my "love tank" is at a -43. I'm very close to leaving the relationship and calling it a fail. I'm so lonely and feel like I have no one to love or receive love from. She doesn't seem to get it. How long should this take? I'm not sure how much longer I can be expected to go without sex/intimacy/love. I'm miserable. She seems like she just wants to go about life as usual, basically ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away.

Is a man supposed to just sit and wait for 9 months to be intimate with his wife again? If this is normal, please let me know.
Thank you for listening.

After cheating with 16 different women, I'd say you're lucky to not be six feet under.

That said, how old are you both? And do you have children together?

Click 'notify' and ask the moderators to move your thread to the 'surviving an affair' forum.

That comment is pretty judgmental, and not helpful at all. I'm here for help, not to be beat up. I can do that on my own.

We're both 33, no kids.

Let's keep this discussion manageable please. We will be keeping a close eye on this one. Thank You.

Just click notify if there is a concern with another posters comments.

The question I would have, is that if you were to move on, and "call it a fail," what are you going to do in your next relationship to prevent recurrence?

You have given her quite a bit to resent, and that is something that is going to take MOUNTAINS of work on your part to overcome.

Yes, she has her own sins to account for, but it's really pot and kettle at this point, isn't it? And, to be honest, you've got a much bigger pot!

Have you bought SAA? How on board is she? Has she read anything from this site? Have you gone over it together?

I realize that the physical intimacy issue is a big one for you, but you have a need for an overall overhaul that needs to be addressed.

Baby steps, one step at a time. PoJA, PoRH, time and patience.

I think your BW is better off without you. She likely thinks so too but may not know what to do and turned to OM. I'd talk to her about D...you are a mess that will suck the life out of her.

Can you give us a little more information? Do you have children? Who are the other women? One night stands? How long did these affairs last? Are you/were you into porn? What happened when you were busted by OW's husband? What did you and your wife do to recover at that point?

Respond, how much of the information on this site have you read?

Have you read the Basic Concepts?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

Have you read the Rules to Recovery after an Affair?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

There is an article that may be very helpful for you called "How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage?"

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex.html

What the heck?! I come here to get help and advice, and one guy thinks I should be dead, while another calls me a mess and should get a divorce! That's not helpful! Have I not made it clear that I'm trying to change?!

I appreciate the helpful posts from a few of you.

That's a cop-out. She could have divorced him. There's no excuse for an affair, even if you're the betrayed spouse.

This program will work for any couple who are both willing to save their marriage.

You should read as much as you can on this site, and familiarize yourself with the ten basic concepts.

You have a tough road ahead of you, but if you truly are changed you need to work with this program, and if you and your wife are both willing to work on your marriage she needs to establish no contact with the other man.

Good luck.

Respond, I don't think the comment about "six foot under" was meant to be taken literally.

But you can click "ignore" on anyone that you find to be unhelpful. I've got to be honest there can be a lot of that.

Plunge into the main reading material on the site and ask questions about it here; I promise you will receive help.

I never said her A wasn't wrong and never will say it isn't. However, given the depth of the betrayal (the entire marriage), they are relatively young and no children, I would go with Plan D.

Markos was advised to divorce me when he first got here, too. I'm the "dud" that wasn't worth saving :P

Divorce doesn't have to be the answer, if your betrayed wife is willing to save the marriage. Read the links Markos posted, if you haven't already.

As a WH you will get a lot of 2 x 4s. Stick around and try to see the message behind the 2 x 4 (as there is ALWAYS ONE) and you might just be able to salvage your marriage.

Prisca, with all due respect, I am familiar with the MB concepts. OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. Based on what OP has said, from my own experiences with WSs (mine and others), and what Dr. Harley has said re: serial cheaters and addicts, I stand by my opinion that D is best for BW. If she were here, I'd tell her the same thing.

Respond,

The comment was not judgmental. It is a fact.

You ARE lucky to be alive. Adultery kills more than just marriages. Any one of the husband's of your OW's could have found out about your affairs and completely lost grip and shot you or beat the life out of you. Your wife could have come completely unhinged and murdered you.

Because most of us here are BS's, we KNOW how close a BS walks to losing their mind when finding out about their beloved's affair. There is a time frame when the utter shock of betrayal suspends our reasoning. It's in the news all the time.

Your defensiveness is getting in the way of understanding what people are trying to tell you.

Your have a better chance of receiving help here if you can place your defensiveness aside and look for the real meanings in the posts.

This poster was not saying they wished you were dead or that you deserve to be dead, they specifically said YOU ARE LUCKY.

And you are.

She speaks the truth.

My brother sat outside the OM's house for 2 days with his loaded gun in his lap.

Had I had the whole truth while the OM was still in this city, I'm not quite sure what I would have done.

I have these lovely fantasies of running into him, and what I would do...

With equal respect, I never said you weren't. I also gave my opinion, which is also in line with MB concepts. This marriage is salvageable, if the betrayed wife wants to salvage it.

Frankly, if I were the BW, I would walk too. But I'm not, and she's not here. He is, and he wants help to save the marriage.

As I said above, drop the defensiveness and look at what is being said. BR, shared her opinion that you have done so much damage that it is likely that your wife can never recover from the hurt and resentment.

Sometimes divorce is the best option. It is a valid statement.

No one has said there is no hope. There is hope if you are willing to live a lifestyle of extraordinary precautions that prevent you from having an opportunity to have an affair. That will be a drastic change for you. Are you willing to eliminate the lifestyle that created an environment that made it so easy for you to have an affair?

We ALL have those fantasies.

Thankfully, few of us act upon them.

If only more WS's did not act upon their fantasies!

That is my question. Have you read about EPs? (protecting yourself from situations that encourage A's...)
How does someone even MEET 16 people in 10 years?

I would like to know what you have done since your "Journey" to create a safe marriage for your wife.

What lifestyle changes have you made to demonstrate outwardly the change you say you have had?

What lifestyle changes have you made to demonstrate that you mean what you say about being a better husband?

What have you done to show her that your highest priority is making sure that you do nothing to hurt her ever again?

You see, I have a real problem helping a wayward spouse lure their betrayed spouse back into the marriage when the wayward is not willing to protect their spouse from future pain.

So before I can offer you any help, I want to know what you have done and what you are willing to do...

R2U;

Do you have the ability to councel with the Harleys?
That is the best route.

Do you have any counseling/professional help available to you where you live?
Have you had a current/clean STD test?
First you must protect yourself and your W with that.

goodness gravy! SMB- keep on trucking! yeah 4 u.
I feel like a paramedic, shouting "We need more help (vets) here!"

HOW have you been trying?

Be specific with your answer please.

Oh! I forgot about Markos-- MoM
And BR

R2U
wise posters. all good.

Yes, phone coaching with the Harley's would be your best option. Watcha think about that R2U?


(BC, I though we had a waving emoticon around here. Guess not. So this is me waving to you )

Agreed.

And what's scary about the OP is that his Qs are focused on how to get HIS needs met. No Qs on how to implement the MB program or how to help end his Ws A or how to woo his W back to the M.

Reason, you have been called out on your behavior. And you don't like that. I suspect that is because you have been living a life of entitled activity for...well, for forever. You can't do that for too long as an adult without some debris and wreckage, and you're seeing that now. And you don't like that the party has come to an end - at least the part where everything is free and easy for you, with no repercussions, no harm, no foul. You've fouled a lot of lives, friend.

Understand this: you have come to a pro-marriage website and told us that you have pretty much laid everything of the opposite sex you could grab without getting arrested (16 women?? What the hell were you thinking?? What was your point?) Then you get your panties in a bunch because you are immediately called on your infidelities. What kind of reception did you think you were going to get? A bouquet of posies?

Reason, whether you know it or now, you have come to the best place you can come to in order to find out how to heal a marriage. I'm all cool with the idea that you seem to have found Jesus, but it appears that your embrace of a faith hasn't totally worked for you. Did you think that accepting Christ would immediately pave a golden path in front of you? The Heavenly Counselor doesn't work that way. One of your male co-religionist must not have told you that. Sweat equity will be required on your part.

Consider that God has directed you here. He's got the Big Plan. Are you going to have a problem with that? He has given us to you. You pick what you want to do with that gift

This site HEALS MARRIAGES. That's what we all want to do. If your M is able to heal, we want to help you. You're going to hear some things that will make you uncomfortable, because we're going to hold up a mirror and make you look at yourself. We will make you reckon with yourself.

If you can't handle the heat and come out the other side with a recovered M, let us know. There are others we're neglecting who truly want our help so that we can help you.

I notice that I posted some questions to you that you chose not to answer, instead choosing to take offense at hard, pointed posts. You're gonna get some of those. Can you take it? Can you do this difficult thing? Believe me, living a life of fidelity is ever so much easier than juggling 17 women in 10 years. But you're going to have to dig in and start rowing, friend.

What do you want from us? What is YOUR goal for your marriage?

Quit lurking like a weenie and step up to the plate, Reason.

MaritalBliss,

I just figured out what you keep saying "reason". My name is "respond2us", I think you misread.

I have not been "lurking", or avoiding questions. I posted yesterday, I'm back on the site today. Geez.

I'd like to state the opinion that, while some of you have good suggestions, and are trying to be helpful, you do it in a very insensitive way. I never expected a "bouquet of posies" when I came here. I just wanted some help, and was VERY surprised with the apparent bitterness of people here. I was amazed at how many of you seem to take out your anger on me, seeing me as the "other guy" or whatever. I guess I can understand that, but remember...I came here for help. I came here honestly. I didn't hide anything. I haven't had an affair in 9 months. I've done a LOT of changing. And you guys jump down my throat because of what I did in my past. Man, it must be nice to be perfect. I envy each of you who are throwing stones at me for living innocent lives.

I don't need a bunch of people telling me I was wrong. I'm well aware of that. I'm well aware of all the lives I've screwed up. I'm aware that I've hurt my wife and myself in the process. I know that we may not make it. I know it's going to be a long road with little chance of success.

I also know that we are both committed to doing the work. If we didn't want to save our marriage, we (or she) could have ended it in the beginning. That sure would have been easier! But we're not interested in easy, we're interested in saving our marriage. Yes, for the record, she is here because she wants to make it. And yes, she knows she may not be able to get past it. You guys act like you're the first people to note these issues. Like I haven't been living it. It's ridiculous.

If I seem like I'm being direct, it seems like that's how you all want to communicate. While I would prefer a civil discussion, it seems that I'm in the minority.

I did not "get my panties in a bunch" because I was called on my infidelities. I got upset because I ADMITTED TO THEM immediately and several people attacked me for them. You guys need to tone it down and realize you can help people without beating them up.

"Did you think that accepting Christ would immediately pave a golden path in front of you?" Where in the world was THAT said? I have issues that I'm dealing with, and thought someone might be able to help. Should I not talk about my issues? Does asking questions mean that I'm ticked that God hasn't fixed everything for me? As far as "one of your male co-religionist" telling me that...wow, big leap made there. MB, you're making a LOT of assumptions, few of them correct.

One of the things you've said that I agree with is that God has directed me here, and He has the big plan. You're right on there. I pray a lot that God will help me understand all this and become the man He created me to be. I know I've screwed up my life, and only God can help me fix it.

I do want help. Again, why I'm here. You guys can't run me off. (That's a joke)

To answer your questions about what I want for my marriage: I pray for restoration, I want to be in love with each other again, and I want to survive this thing. I want my wife to be in love with me again the way she used to be. I want a life of intimacy, I want my best friend back, and I want to be the man that she needs.

Lurking like a weenie,
Respond2us

*sigh*

In all seriousness, I ask you: Instead of getting defensive, can you tell us what parts of the MB program you have implemented? Have you put EPs into place? If so what EPs?

Given that your W is still in contact with her affair partner, are you willing to do Plan A? If your answer is yes, what exactly are you doing/going to do as part of your Plan A?

Do you realize that because of your affairs compounded by the fact that she is still in contact with her own AP that it may be a while before she will be able to meet your needs?

Your M is on life-support you are wasting time arguing. We can't help you if you don't talk in terms of the MB plans.

Headheldhigh,

First of all, thanks for your helpful (and civil) response.

Your question about moving on makes a good point. I had a conversation with a friend yesterday who made a similar point, and it made a lot of sense. He said, basically, "If you quit this relationship, what's going to change in the next one? And who is perfect anyway? You'll have issues with anyone, because we're all human." Anyway...

Yeah, you're right about me having a bigger pot. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't mess with me that she's been with another guy for the last year, but really, the problem is 95% mine. She was only with him because I didn't meet her emotional needs. She had to get them met, so she did. I get it.

My wife is not the type of person to really read or research to find answers. That's how I do it, because I feel like more information helps. But she's more of the type to just think a lot. She's what I call a "bagger", meaning she bags her feelings...she stuffs her emotions. She's not much to talk about them. I'm kind of like the woman in our relationship, and she's the man (as far as emotions go).

We are in marriage counseling together, but have only began that in the last couple of months. It's REALLY hard, because that's when I find out how my wife really feels. At home, like I said, she doesn't really talk about it.

I was very frustrated yesterday when I posted my original post. I was also very "on edge", and everything rubbed me the wrong way. I apologize if it sounded like I was defending myself. I sure didn't mean to, or have any reason to. Lack of intimacy was on my mind yesterday, and it probably came across like that was all I cared about. Hopefully my posts today are clearing that up.

Sorry, I just found this website. I haven't read through all the stuff yet, and don't understand all the acronyms. So, give me a bit to decode your questions...

If you read the Requirements for Recovery here on this site along with the other Basic Concepts, the rest of it should make sense...

Respond,
Oops - sorry about the name.

I think what you're interpreting as being insensitive is our way of being passionate about what we're posting. We've been intimately involved in the destruction of adultery and we're pretty strident about stamping it out. If you can take some initial heat, you'll learn a lot here.

Let's look at a couple of things:

You were on long enough to post your story and become offended when some of the replies you received were direct and upfront with you. You'll never be able to accuse any poster here of not saying what's on their mind. Some of us cut to the chase, some of us are a little more eloquent. But you will get straight answers. You might want to consider sticking around a little longer to post more replies so we have more information.

I went back and counted at least six posters who have asked you questions and you didn't answer them. We can't help you without some input on your part. Why don't you go back over the old posts and answer each one that you see? That will help.


You said that. But we've asked what you're actually doing and you haven't replied.

Respond, you have averaged being with a different woman every 7-8 months in the past 10 years. So the 9 month mark doesn't sound as encouraging to us as you might think. You've got a long way to go, my friend.

Direct communication is fine.


I said this in response to your comment My point in my comment was that, while it's great you've got a personal relationship with Christ, accepting Christ will not fix your issues. It's not a magic fix. You would be surprised at the number of people out there who accept Christ and think they're hunky dory after that point.

No, I hope you're serious. Stick around. I'll warn you that it's going to get a little hot occasionally, so be ready. We're not trying to be mean to you - look at it like your brother or sister giving you a good shoulder-shake, trying to help you stop damaging yourself.

I'll stop here, because I can see that you're posting.

*shrug*

I didn't attack or even condemn you. I made the simple observation that you are lucky to be alive. SMB and it seems many others correctly interpreted the meaning of my post: your BW (betrayed wife), the betrayed husbands or boyfriends of any of those women had motive to do you in.

Posters frequently shorten screen names here. So someone calling you Respond or R2U instead of Respond2Us is neither a mistake nor an attempt to make a point of some kind.

I told you to move your post to SAA because it was the best possible place for your thread to be.

Good luck to you.

Actually, I did call him by the wrong screen name last night That's what I get for trying to saute my veggies and post at the same time. No harm no foul intended though, Respond.

Hey, respond, bit is right: just before exposure, when the OWH in my sitch was really starting to threaten my FWH, my FWH kept a hocky stick in his office. He felt very threatened. I told him after D-Day that he was lucky he didn't get his [censored] shot off.

She didn't say that you should be dead, she said you are lucky that you are not dead. I swear I dreamed I came into the hotel room where my FWH and the sleeze woman were having s*x and butchered them to death. I had that dream for almost two years. It was so real to me that it scared me to death. I have never thought about taking someone's life until D-Day. I can now understand crimes of passion so well.

I put probably 30 bruises on my H in the few months just after D-Day. Never knew I had it in me. And I remember one night, while I was kicking him wishing with every part of me that OW was in the room so I could give her what she so richly deserved, after destroying me like she/they did. The cold, dead desire to beat her within an inch of her life completely took over. I get the crimes of passion now, too.

I'm the wife of respond2us. Just wanted to tell give a few of my own opinions after reading these posts.

My husband obviously came on here for help. He absolutely knows the damage he's done to our marriage and whether or not it can be repaired is yet to be seen. With that said, I love my husband. If I didn't feel there had been any change in him the last 9 months, I absolutely would have gotten out of the marriage. I am still not convinced by any means that he is "fixed" or this will never happen again, but I feel like he has made progress by leaps and bounds.

As for my own affair, it started as a result of him giving me zero emotional connection because he was giving it to the other woman. Yes, there were many women, but one woman specifically for over a year. I used my other man as a comfort, or retreat from trying to deal with the shock of what I'd found out. It was by no means the right thing to do and I ultimately made the decision to do it. Not to get back at my husband, but only to feel some type of comfort. I have not had any contact with him in about 2 months now and our affair lasted about 7 months total.

My husband is specifically wanting help on our intimacy issues. I am having a VERY hard time dealing with this. I can't seem to get past the visions of him sleeping with some of my very best friends. Not to mention having delt with a very scary STD as a result of his affairs. And for the record, he and I have both been tested negative for anything else, thank God.

I appreciate all the helpful posts.

Respond, 4 1/2 years ago I had an A with a fellow teacher. I will NEVER forget the look on DH's face when I confessed to cheating with ONE man (one way too many).

It was wrong for your W to cheat - absolutely wrong. But surely you can comprehend WHY it is hard to believe that you are so upset with her after SIXTEEN different women of your own.

Here's a question....What did YOU do to help your wife recover from your 16 affairs?

Respond2us2, you need to start your own thread. I notified the moderators, but I think I can do it for you...hang on a sec...

Welcome to MB!

The fact that you are both reading/posting here is such a great start.

But it is really important that you start your own thread. Whenever both spouses are posting here, it is recommended that you not post on each other's thread.

Again, welcome!

Did he read the links I posted, like the Basic Concepts? He can use that information to help with this issue, and we can help you guys do it.

But obviously we can't use the Marriage Builders concepts to help if he hasn't read them yet.

R2U,

I notice you overlook or ignored my posts to you.

I am still waiting for a reply to the questions I asked.

I'm not too sure they're still around, SMB.