Being in the mist of this mess just like other posters here I feel angry that I am the one who has to do all the work while WS does what ever he wants without thinking about me or our kids. I have to be nice and not LB and say what I really think. I think we should be able to let it out. There are plenty of things I really want to say but bite my tongue. This thread is for all the BS out there to tell us what you really want to say. Feel free to post what ever you want. I have one to start but I have more that involve when he says "this" I feel like saying "that"

You are a fake, self centered egotistical [censored]. In public you show & tell everyone how you are a great husband and father. How life is great and you are all happy go lucky. When you leave they will all know the truth.

It's your prerogative to not recover, in which case you can say that all you want.

However, one does have to consider that this won't be helpful if you really desire to have a recovered marriage.

All I thought about when I read the first post is that someone's TAKER wants out. That would be fine in Plan F/U but in a Plan A you are ALL GIVER.

BSs can vent on their threads and are encouraged to do so while in Plans A and B.

Anger like this is why Plan B is so important...

lglg, do this: get a piece of paper and write down every single thing that is pissing you off right now. All of it. Then take it out to the trash and shred it while you use every vile piece of language you can come up with. Hell, make up a few It's a good exercise.

Or channel all that anger you feel away from your WH and toward....other targets.

Great job everyone !!!! Seen this thread & thought oh god this is going to put me in a tale spin. The need to wallow got the the better of me & had to peek.

Excellent job of detouring a unproductive negative thread !

I knew I hung out here for a reason.

I'm interpreting this thread as a place for BS's to vent so they don't lose it at home and mess up their plan A's.

Thanks Tabby1,
That was exactly what I why I started the thread. There is one for fog babble, WW's excuses etc. but I didn't see one for the BS where they could vent. Say what you really think and see what others think and maybe learn something and maybe have a laugh at yourself or your WS. After reading the first replies I was thinking, why can't I vent? Why do BS' have to spend their time either adding to their stories or work on the best plan A they can? For me, hearing others vent would help me feel like I am not alone in this mess!

As Scotland said, you are describing Plan FU. It's sometimes effective, but really not recommended and definitely not MB doctrine.

Vent here instead. And if you are at the end of your rope, go to Plan B. That's what it's for.

Mulan,
That is what I am doing, venting here instead of with WH. I know if I do plan FU that just gives him more ammo to justify his actions. I will have to go to plan B pretty soon. He is planning on moving out at the end of the month.

I have been doing this. I started a (real)journal last week. (I talked about it on my thread) I haven't been able to write in the past couple of days because he has been around. Should have time this afternoon to let out some f-bombs this afternoon. lol. Thanks again for helping me along with my stick on my thread. It means a lot to me and you have been a great help.

Another thing I did that was helpful to me was to take a pillow and just pound the living you-know-what out of it. I found slamming it against door frames particularly satisfying.
You're doing great.

Instead of burning paper (writings) I burn dried sage.

There are a multitude of reasons, but for me it is a symbolic cleansing of bad happenings.

Dear lady... don't you see it? The fogbabble threads are venting threads. They are "OMG, the stupid stuff wayturds say."

I won't say that I totally disagree with you. In fact, if there is one good thing about a venting thread like this, it's that when those vents get off track... uh oh, here comes a



In fact, 2x4's are the best reason to vent at MB. Sometimes a good smack upside the head, or a bucket of cold water, are the best things to clear the pity party/rage.

Or I can take a pillow, put it over his face and...
Naw, couldn't do that to the kids. lol... Journaling helps. What helps the most is reminding myself I am not the crazy mean person he makes me out to be in his mind. I know I am not and everyone who knows us knows that. The only ones that will buy that BS is POS and his "friends" that I either don't know, barely know or aren't friends of the marriage. I see right through him and he doesn't even realize it.

Well I could burn the giant pile of horse [censored] he is giving me but it will stink up the house.
What I am doing for cleansing is cleaning out all the crap and putting everything that is his together. There are several areas in the house where things pile up into a big mess. I cleaned out my closet (1/3 was his stuff) I put all his stuff in one spot. I also did the same thing for the FL/office. Next is the garage. Wait until he see's how much crap he has to move. Hey, this isn't a storage facility!

I have also been lighting scented candles. They are very calming. Doing my sudoku puzzles are great for taking my mind off things. I have gone through 3 in the past week!

Er....

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/08/11/catharsis/


Backed by multiple studies.

It also stops you from punching something else.

Hey, I am allowed to have a pitty party if I want one!
I guess some posters don't agree with this thread and that is ok. I find it cleansing to say what I want so I don't say it to WH. I am actually less stressed and angry than I have been in a long time. The only thing that ticks me off is I haven't found the golden ticket. (undeniable proof of the affair) If I find that the party is on and I am not talking pity party!
Ok I am going to get serious here. As for pity, I am po'ed at him but I also pity him. Yes he is hurting me and the kids but we will be fine. He is the one who will suffer the most. He is just not thinking that far into the future. (Do they ever?) Now if you will excuse me I have a long letter to write. Good thing pens don't have spell check!

It is the season of "giving"...I packed up all the clothes that XH left behind in his rush to be with PP and handed them out this Thanksgiving to the homeless.

Ralph Lauren shirts, hillfigler, pringle...best dressed homeless in town.

Positive action vent...

HeadHeldHigh,
Thanks a lot HHH, like I wanted to read a long article right now. lol.
Seriously, my WH is guilty of a lot of what is written in the article. He has gotten better over the years but he still goes off when he is angry. Reading the article brought back memories of how bad he was early on in our relationship. He was and still is(to a lesser degree) a ragger. My dad was also.
These 2 stuck out the most.
Smashing plates or kicking doors
someone cuts you off in traffic
I would also add one that both my dad and my WH do. The silent treatment.

Because of my dads rage I learned to be a conflict avoider (not good) and carried that into our marriage. It took me a long time to figure that out and work on my reaction rather than focus on WH's actions.

I have found the audio series "life's journey" very helpful. There is one called "Transcending our anger" that talks about this subject. Interesting note, the speaker talks about sexual aggression being another negative way of releasing anger....Hmmmmmmm.

This is from the link you posted.
The more effective approach is to just stop. Take your anger off of the stove. Let it go from a boil to a simmer to a lukewarm state where you no longer want to sink your teeth into the side of buffalo.

Still, cooling off is not the same thing as not dealing with your anger at all. Bushman suggests you delay your response, relax or distract yourself with an activity totally incompatible with aggression.

Like doing Sudoko puzzles? YAY!!!!!!!!!!

MUST NOT REPLY WITH SARCASTIC REMARK....

Where is my puzzle book?

If the clothes were that important to him he would have taken them. You did the right thing by giving them to someone who really needs them. I have been going through all my clothes as well as the kids clothes and giving them to the poor. I have 5 bags already. WH can take all his clothes with him. I will nicely tell him if he doesn't take it I will donate it to the poor for him. He has 3+ times as many clothes as I do. He has been talking about going through them for years now. No time like the present!

Thank you for demonstrating the absolute perfect usage of a smiley to convey sarcasm!

Sadly, we are going to have pity parties if we want to or not. It's just going to happen. Grieving process and all.

I can post, research, think, know WHATEVER I want about psychology and human behavior, but my logical, rational self and my emotional self just aren't going to sync up.

I know, to an absolute, why FWW tacked that W on her W... er what?

Anyway - knowing that more than anything, it was about her lack of boundaries, does not make it hurt any less. It does not make it any less of a betrayal.

However, knowing these things, and having been able to dissect that, and discuss that - and both FWW and I having been emotionally honest with each other throughout this process - has given my rational logical self a to use against my emotional self when he gets a little too loud.


I actually [b]do[/i] agree with this thread. A place for everything, and a 2x4 to put it in it's place!

Or, a pat on the back when it's a good direction.

I actually did do a little Plan FU on my hubby way back when he was in the mood to avoid talking about or working on the fallout from his affair.

His lovely idea was that if we just didn't talk about it, he could "move on" and that I should figure out a way to compartmentalize it and accept that he would be a good boy.


I very IMpolitely informed him that if he did not start doing his work, that the facts showed I was likely to leave at the six-month mark.

And we were at the six-month mark. I was sick of his trickle truth and game playing about how I had to ask questions, and his little avoidance tactics - which were his attempt to avoid having to talk about ANYTHING that made him

"feel bad".


I pretty much told him I was through with his approach, and he would get on this bus or we were done.


Odd. He chose to get his bus pass in advance, and has been on the correct route since then.


I guess for some folks, all they really need is a Plan FU.

I do not recommend it, tho. It took a huge fight, hours of talking, and lots of making up work after that.


Vent here. Much safer.

Wow! So he got on the bus? Did you enjoy it?

You got that right.

I think you should just sit those 2 down and make them get along.

I'm right there with you, I think it is just normal human nature. No one is perfect. I also believe we learn more about ourselves as life goes on. I will continue to grow and learn until the day I leave this earth. That is a good thing. If I thought I knew it all, that would be a bad thing! I also try to avoid no-it-all's for this reason. If someone thinks they have nothing to learn, they have learned nothing.

I avoid know-it-all's as well.

I myself am a know-a-lot-of-nothing. Whatever I know, or whatever I find out, can always be proven wrong - or, there are always exceptions.

I really, really need to find this particular math equation. It was the best description as to why absolute thinking fails. The basic of it, is that the calculation is true to almost 4 million. In other words, the equation is always right until you get around 3,977,000 or so, and then the equation is no longer true.

What?

Well, even if it takes almost 4 million times to become untrue, the fact that it isn't when you reach that line, means that it absolutely is not "always true."

Nobody always or never anything.

So yeah, ultimately he got on the bus!


Except, he had prostate cancer surgery right after d-day....so that ticket wasn't even validated for about a year.

My dad always says that the idea of 2+2=4 is stupid. He is a mathematician, and he has this logic about any number.

He says that you can only say this if you have two actual things, and add them to two more actual things of the same class. Then you have four things.

Otherwise, numbers are inexact. Is it really "2", or "2.00000001" and the calculator or human just rounded? Then it isn't "2" at all, is it. And how do you KNOW, unless it is two actual SOMETHINGS.


And those two things are perfectly intact.....



He drove us crazy with his stuff.

I guess you could apply this to affairs:

One actual PA, one near PA, one EA, and one online chatting/flirting session......

equals

Four affairs.


Of greater or lesser......value?


Sheesh

SB

Pretty much.

I've rolled that around... bad habit, I know... but I have.

Would I be as angry if it was a "soulmate" situation, instead of dirty teenage boinking?

If it was only once?

Would I have stayed if I had to fight?

Don't know, don't wanna know. I have my situation, and I can't really project that anywhere else - not just because it is it's own thing, but how I feel about it may not be the same as someone else would.

I think the math instructor at the CC here would take that a step further for you;

2+2=4... however, if it's an apple and an orange + a pear and a grapefruit, you may have four fruits, but they are all different.

btw- what is this smiley doing?



Is it stabbed in the back? Is it's hair on fire? what is the purple thing? a pillow?

drama queen!

I think your dad and I could have quite the conversations! This sounds like something I would say.

My mom would say "the sky is blue" just to point out that I'm arguing. When technically, when you get right down to it, the sky is NOT really blue........

heh heh... I hope he is fine now and rides the bus on a regular basis.

So if it is an apple, orange, pear or grapefruit they are all fruits?

I don't think venting here is bad. I feel very strongly that getting my frustrations out on paper, on a thread, WHEREVER helped me purge some of the angst and heartache that I couldn't seem to get out of my soul. It helped me to have others put some of that in perspective and help me deal with it differently/better.

or just so I knew I was not alone.

You are not alone.

and it is okay to be mad.

My kids do this all the time. One little thing that drove me nuts was when I would say "It's 8PM time for bed." Then I would get the "no it isn't, it is 7:59." Then there was the endless conversation about the sky. "What if there were no clouds. What if it doesn't rain. What will happen to the plants etc. " This was a conversation with my then 4 year old that went on for days. Then she hit me with "what if there was nothing in the sky?" I said "then it wouldn't rain and the sun wouldn't shine." She said "NO MOM I mean NOTHING in the sky." Now these are the conversations at 4, you can imagine what she is asking about now.

Glad you find that funny.
I have learned to say... "You know honey, That's a great question. I really don't know the answer, we should look it up on the internet when we get home." One time when I was volunteering in her Kindergarten class her teacher commented on all the questions she asks that the teacher doesn't have an answer to. Guess what she told my DD? Yup, she said "Let's go look it up on the internet." I laughed so hard and told her teacher I do the same thing. I'm thinking she will make a great lawyer.

I don't think it's bad at all. I started posting specifically to vent, and then specifically to get 2x4'd. I needed help, and I didn't have any positive or successful sources - not to mention that the A was built to die.

I chose not to stink it all up because both of our families are maritally dysfunctional.

My best friends... one went through infidelity with his W years ago - and I don't particularly care for her - and he doesn't really have my respect. He drinks too much, and at his worst put his hands on his wife. I may not like her, but I told her to leave him and take him for all he's worth, as well as their son.

My other best friend still has "a spot picked out in the desert" for FWW for the crap she put me through when we dated. NO WAY he can know about this.

So I vent here, where I can get a healthy cup check when needed.

Though, don't even do that much lately. FWW has kind of asked for exclusive venting rights... so I am working on communicating honestly without communicating brutally.

That, however, is just my fortune.

I caught up on your stitch. I see your WW hasn't posted in a while. Are you both on board with MB principals? If I could get my WH anywhere near working on it I would love to try MB 100%

Taken from Clark Griswold's rant in Christmas vacation and tailored for me.

Hey. If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like WH, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy WS land and I want him brought right here...with a big ribbon on his head! And I want to look him straight in the eye, and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-[censored], bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey [censored] he is! Hallelujah! Holy [censored]! Where's the Tylenol?

There, now I feel better.

Edited to add, I just thought of a great Christmas present for him. I will get him a big red ribbon!

Hey, lglg? Which side is your good side? Cause I want to stay on it!

You're not the one that has to worry about staying on my good side. I found this quote on line while looking for another one from the movie. I had a good laugh and decided to tweak it to my stitch. I thought a little levity was called for. I didn't know if I should use laughter or levity in my reply so I looked up the definition levity in the dictionary.

Lightness of manner or speech, especially when inappropriate; frivolity.
That made me laugh even harder!

Thanks again for all your support. I have my angry and pity party moments but overall I have found my inner strength. WH doesn't know what he has signed up for. He may not like what I do when the [censored] hits the fan. I know he will be po'ed but I will be doing it for his own good. He may never get that but that is not my concern. I know I am doing the right thing.

Stay on it, sister! You're doing great!

Thanks,
I am hoping to add your sig to mine some day soon. With or without him I will recover and be a better person for it. Now it is off to the mall to drop off my daughter. I can't believe I have kids old enough to be mall rats!

She still reads often.

It's kind of why I stopped venting - it wasn't "safe" for me to vent here, because she watches my posts.

In truth, I suppose whatever I put up here, if I'm being honest, I should be able to find a respective way to communicate with her.

She is on board. So far. The end of next month, the day before her B-day, will be the 1 year anniversary of her betrayal.

It's kind of stressing me. I have no idea how I am going to handle that day. Part of me just wants to crawl in a hole somewhere and wither.

She does everything right, but... you just don't trust it. For part of me, it just doesn't matter. The work, the changes aren't hard. The betrayal, the lies... that's what's hard.

All I ever wanted to do, all I ever want to do, is to make my wife happy. She denied me that choice and that chance. It sucks.

It is going to be a hard day. If she is reading here she should know it is going to be hard on you. Can you talk to her in a non-confrontational way about it? Use I feel not you did in the conversation. From what I read on her posts she seems remorseful but also feels attacked when you bring things up.


That is right, and if you aren't being respectful you know someone will give you a 2X4! Don't take the 2X4 personally, take it as a oppertunity to learn and grow as a better person.

Trust is earned. Do you think she hasn't done enough to earn your trust or do you think you aren't open enough to trust her?

Here are some quotes for you that a friend sent me.

�How we perceive a situation and how we react to it is the basis of our stress. If you focus on the negative in any situation, you can expect high stress levels. However, if you try and see the good in the situation, your stress levels will greatly diminish.� ~ Catherine Pulsifer

"Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change." Look for the glass to be half-full not empty! ~ Wayne Dyer

Get ready HHH.... here comes the 2X4.
Her reading here should not stop you from posting. That is an excuse. She may be reading here but she isn't posting from what I have seen. IMO you both are doing a 1/2 [censored] MB plan. Get on board and give it your all. If you don't I suspect you will mull along and your marriage with wither away in a slow painful death. When my WH gave me the "We've tried and get no where. It shouldn't be this hard" speech I gave him this analogy: It's like house work. You want to live in a clean tidy house. If you pick up as you go along and do some deep cleaning every so often you will have a nice comfortable home. If you work to clean up but don't finish you still don't have a clean comfortable home. If you don't keep picking up as you go along it will become a mess again. Of course I was talking to a WS so it went over his head. Ironically enough one of his MANY complaints is not having a clean home. I worked my butt off to get things clean and keep it clean. He didn't even notice, he just found something else to complain about.

She isn't as much of a webcrawler as I am. I'm not going to force her to post.

I lead her here so that she can have ears and voices who are not only objective, but pro-marriage. We are both very thankful for the information, and for the advice and opinions of everyone here.

Quite honestly, had I not found MB, I am quite sure that the anger and resentment would have crushed me, and I would be working on Plan D instead.

Pure honesty; my plan (before MB) was to get her driving (has a fear/aversion to it, has our entire marriage - but I'm working on it slowly over time), for me to finish school... and then to file for divorce.

My parents and siblings would never shun her - just not the way my family operates - she would just not have me any more.

The plan was to make her as independent as possible and then walk away. I was done. I was done 2 years ago, and the A just cemented the deal.

The whole accusation of "you were never there" was part of the problem... she didn't look. She spent our entire marriage treating me as if I were disposable. Then she proved I was.

I have been holding on for the children, hoping that when things got rolling, that maybe she would finally have time for me, because no matter how many ways or times I tried over the years to say I was drowning, she kept brushing me aside.

You are right, though lglg, there is an area where I am only pulling the weight with one butt cheek. I am horrible at being emotionally honest. I've got that wall up, and it's going both ways.

That's my big battle right now.