Hi! I really hate that I'm here, but really thankful to have found this site! My DH and I are both 32. We have been married for 10 1/2 years. We have one DD--9 months---after 3 years of infertility and invitro fertilization. From my perspective, we have had a wonderful marriage--not perfect--but I thought we were very happy. In July my WH began a PA with a coworker. In August he told me the ILYBNILWY bit. Then in Sept, admitted to having PA (OW is not married and has no kids) because I had found some stuff on the computer, plus his actions just gave way to that fact. He left after he admitted the PA. He came back after a few days. Then, left again about a week later b/c he �couldn't stand to see what he was doing to me� (we were living in limbo land). He stayed gone for about a week, but then returned home b/c he felt pressure to do the right thing. A couple of weeks later, I found out who the OW was (he refused to ell me up to this point.) He left again and has not returned home since. He says the affair is over and he no longer has contact with her. I have no way of knowing this to be true. He has filed for divorce. I have been working with a Divorce Busting coach who has been very helpful. I also spoke with Steven Harley on Friday.

I�m in Plan A, even though I didn�t know to call it that until I found this sight. I�ve just been attractive, avoided relationship talk, tried to take better care of myself, and tried to make positive change that was lacking in our marriage. I�ve been doing this since mid-November. My husband comes to visit our baby almost daily, even though he rented an apt an hour and a half away from us. Crazy!! At least once a week, he will stay the night to help with the baby. So, things are a lot better between us b/c of my changes. We have fun together and are comfortable being with each other. He says he still loves me and cares about me---but its obviously in a different way than I love and care about him.

We went to a 3-day marriage seminar last weekend, but he refused to stay past Friday. He said he just couldn�t handle the guilt from what he has done. He stated he was very confused and goes back and forth on what to do. He says he knows he is probably making a huge mistake, but has to figure that out for himself. He also admitted he needs to see a counselor b/c he feels so angry and depressed all the time.

I�m trying to keep hanging on, but I�m just so confused on where to go from here. Steven Harley gave me some pointers and I will try that, but I�m just so scared for my future�not just mine�more so for my daughter. It scares me what this is doing to her. My WH keeps saying he knows he screwed up, needs to change and that he just has to live with his consequences. But, what about the consequences all of us are having to face�especially our daughter? I get so angry when I think about what he�s doing to her.

I don�t really know what I�m asking�if anything. I just need support. I need advice on where to go from here. I�m sure I didn�t answer all the questions some of you have, so just ask if you need to know anything. I appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance!

Hi Stillfighting! Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Have you exposed the affair to everyone?

Welcome, StillFighting!

What pointers did Steve give you that you are trying to implement? Did he talk to you about exposure?

Exposure was done a while back. My dad called my husband's boss when he left me and the baby and informed him of what was going on. My husband has already told his mom about the affair--he told her before he told me. Our church knows. Once I found out who the OW was, I called WH's boss myself and informed him of who the OW was. Because it was a coworker, she was immediately fired and my WH was laid off--but eseentially he got a week's vacations b/c he was back at work the next week. (WH worked for a local politician who got defeated back in November, so he ended up losing his job but not b/c of affair.) Many ppl know what has happened. I sent the OW an email (a very cordial one) advising her that I knew who she was and to back off. I don't know if her parents know--I honestly never even thought of informing them until the past couple of days. Since I don't know if they are still involved (I don't think they are) and since we are almost three months removed from the bomb, I'm not sure what effect exposing the affair to them would have.

Steven suggested that I ask my husband if he felt that in an ideal marriage where he could be happy that would he want to be in love with the mother of his daughter. If he says yes, then explain to him that I've found a way that he may could have that and go from there. I have to try to make it all bout him and his happiness since he is still in the illogical and selfish state. I'm just nervous to do that b/c he tends to rebel with too much relationship talk and it pushes him further away. So, I know I need to do it--just nervous. Call me chicken!

SF, I would strongly suggest you expose it to OW's parents, family and friends. The more trouble you can cause for her, the less likely she is to pursue her affair with your husband. If her family knows, they will be unlikely to allow your H to darken their doorstep, which WILL RUIN THE FUTURE OF THE AFFAIR.

We have had many parents step in and ruin affairs. Go read abc098's thread. His wife is having an affair and he exposed to the OM's parents. The OM's parents got on a plane and are flying out to have a come to Jesus with their son. We have had other affairs killed when a parent got involved.

I would see if the OW has a facebook affair and if she does, expose to her family and friends on facebook. This might be the very thing to kill off the affair. We have sample letters you can use to send to the OW's facebook friends.

Have you personally spoken to his mom and his family members? Because if you haven't, they have probably been told a lie about all this. I don't know of any wayward who exposed himself and did it honestly. They lie and spin.

This is something else I would do. Call his family members and make sure they have the truth. Ask them to use their influence to persuade him to end his affair.

\

I assure you they are still involved. This explains his refusal to move home and/or spend the night with you.

I agree with Melody.

Why would he move 1 1/2 hours away? Especially with a new baby...THAT HE SEE'S DAILY? Are you saying he drives 1 1/2 hours to your house, THEN he drives 1 1/2 hours BACK to his place at night?

Do the math darling. 1+1=3 as in: there are THREE people in your marriage.

Don't mean to be rough on you but read the threads...

Listen to the VETS...

Men who WANT their marriage to work and are NOT involved don't live away from home. That's a fact.

He does sometimes spend the night--usually at least once a week. He moved an hour and a half away b/c he only has one friend that he is still involved with and he lives in that town. That's where WH went to stay when he left home. His family is out of state. He told me that he regrets moving so far from the baby.

I talk to his mother frequently, so she is aware of everything. His family has told him that they in no way condone what he is doing.

I don't even know the OW's parents. She no longer has a facebook account b/c I've tried fiding her. My husband took his off too. I know he was afraid of ppl saying stuff to him. I'm sure she took hers off for the same reason. How can I find out who her parents are without him knowing what i'm doing?

The reason I say he isn't involved with her any longer is b/c he is so much more involved with me and the baby now. He comes around more now than he did when he was still living at home. he is much more engaged with us when he is there. Also, the divorce busting coach I've been working with feels that b/c of his positive change in behavior that he probably is not with her. I could be totally wrong--very likely am---but that's where my outlook is coming from right now. I'm sure I'm being stupid. I tend to look at the positives and not necessarily teh reality sometimes....

Please search for 'FOG BABBLE' on this site.

If he is 'staying' with a friend and does not have his own place, why won't he come back home? THINK

Affairs thrive in secret, aka: no facebook pages-no one can find them. aka: far away from home town-no one can see them.

Of course he doesn't people saying anything to him. That would burst the fantasy bubble!

YOU HAVE GOT TO EXPOSE TO OW FAMILY

I'm sorry that I was confusing--the friend he stayed with is in the same town where he is now. But, WH does have his own apt now. He signed a 6 month lease last month.

How do I find out who her parents are? I never met the girl. I know her name and where she is from, but that's about it. The town she is from is a pretty large place, so I don't know how to find out who her parents are without asking my WH.

I searched for FOG BABBLE and a lot came up, so what exactly am I looking for so I don't spend countless time looking through stuff? Thanks!

Divorce Busters is about the WORST program I have ever seen when it came to busting up an affair. Their suggestions are so naive and unproductive that it is shocking. We have had BS's come here after being on DB for months and years whose spouses' affairs were busted up by using our suggestions here. One such person, SunnyD, is well into recovery today by using our suggestions. Her H's affair was killed in one weekend by exposure, yet they had coached her on DB to not expose. If she had followed their advice, her H would still be in an affair and they would still be separated today.

I assure you that your H is still in his affair and until you bust that up, recovery is impossible. All the need meeting, etc, etc, will be of no avail until he ends his affair. Ignoring the affair is to ignore the sinking Titanic.

A PI can dig it up pretty quickly with a background check. It usually runs about $250-350 but it is well worth it.

I've thought about driving to his new place one night just to do my own spying.
I've actually looked up the girls name on whitepages.com and only one person with her first, middle initial, and last name came up. It had a houselhold memeber listed that sounded like an older woman's name. I'd hate to call that and it be the wrong person. Also, should I make sure they are still involved before exposing her or just go ahead and do it anyway?

Intellius.com would find it for about $50 or less.

I would also make yourself less available to your WH and go to plan B. It's been long enough, especially if OW is out of the picture. You need to make him **** or get off the pot. IF he's afraid that waiting any longer will risk losing you, he's much more likely to commit to the marriage again, even if he's currently not sure.

You should expose anyway; but I assure you the affair is still on. That is very evident to anyone with a modicum of experience with adultery. His foggy mind and the fact that he won't move home tells the whole story.

You can call the # you found and ask the woman if her DD is "such and such who works at XXXXX?" That way if it is the wrong person you can find out quickly before you tell her the story.

How close is this address to your H's new apartment?

The city she is from is about an hour and a half to two hours from my husband's apt.

I just paid $5 to search her cell phone (I do have that #) and it gave me the name of a man (her father I assume) that the account is linked to. So, now I do know her father's name, but when I looked up his name on white pages there were about a billion in that city. I can't call her cell phone b/c I"m sure my husband has already given her my number, plus I tried calling her when I found out who she was!
Any advice on doing my own snooping?

Well, I did the intellius thing and found out who her parents are and a phone #/address. Is it best to call or send a letter or both? I just found that my Wh is back on FB, but I couldn't find her. And of course, she isn't one of his friends.

I would pick up the phone and give them a call. Unless they live close. Do they live close?

No, they are about an hour and fifteen minutes from where I am.

Close to where your H is living?

No, other direction.

So, I talked to my WH last night. He admitted that he is still talking to the OW. Duh--right. He admitted to only emails at this point, but I pointed out to him that we are still married and that even though he denies anything physical is going on, he is still involved in an EA. He agreed this was true. I gave him a few things to think about and am going to give him a week to ponder before I bring it up again. I did tell him that we will never work or ever be okay as long as he continues to be involved with her in any way. If he is still refusing to work on our marriage and is still talking to her next week (which I am sure he will be), then I think it's time for me to set some strict boundaries with him. That will be hard to do, but I know I have to.
I have a text saved in my drafts to send to OW letting her know I know they are still involved. I remind her that I've asked her nicely once to respect my family and to cease contact with my husband and that I am asking nicely again. I remind her that she is helping to destroy my daughter's life and if she truly cares about my husband, then she should care about his daughter and what her actions are doing to her. Does this sound appropriate? I haven't sent it yet.

Also, when I expose her to her parents--what do I say without coming across as a crazy, jealous, betrayed spouse?

SF... I think you need to set some boundaries NOW! I didn't do much in the beginning and now I am paying for it. WH thinks he can do as he pleases and come and go when he wants, etc. In the beginning when he first left, I did allow this and I really shouldn't have. But, I thought that if I did I would be providing a place he would want to come back to. But, what I ended up doing was showing him that he was allowed to do as he wanted with little consequences. Now, I am trying to set the consequences and it is a little bit harder and I think I am going to have to work harder to accomplish what I want. Good luck!!

SF, I think it's commendable that you're nicely asking this Skank Ho to leave your H alone, but I don't think being nice is the appropriate action to take, here.

I would make this broad's life a living hell until she leaves your H alone! I would let her know that she won't have a minute's peace if she continues to insert herself into your M! I would be ready to rip the hair out of any little whore who tried to destroy my family!

Why in the world are you being nice to this piece of trash???

I guess I'm trying to take the high road, so to speak. I don't want to come across as crazy and unstable and give her any reason to see me as threatening her or harassing her.

I agree with MB!!! Don't make it easy!! The OW my WH is with is A SKANK, HO, WHORE, HOMEWRECKER.... all in one. Some people say they change but then you see them for what they really are..... and this is evident that she is still all of the above. Once a cheater... ALWAYS a cheater. Make her life a living hell too. I have exposed EVERYHTHING this woman has been doing and since we live in a small town, people are looking at her like trash. They too see that she hasn't changed. You know how they say karma is a [censored]? Well, NLF is THAT [censored]!!! I am making it so hard for her that she gets nasty looks everywhere she goes. Even though my WH is involved with her and made these choices on his own, most people know her past and say they aren't surprised that she once again suckered in another guy. Now, she's ruined an entire family, her family and possibly the future of 5 kids. THat in itself is probably the most selfish thing I have ever heard of. The fact that someone is willing to sacrifice the future of innocent children and take away ALL they have ever known for their own "happiness" and wants is selfish and disgusting. I hope these WSs who decide not to stay with their families have difficulty looking at themselves in the mirror in the morning.... and I hope it comes back to bit in the butt two fold in the end. And with this skank, it most likely will with her in life.

SF, honey, look at what you've written.

That's very commendable, but your WH and his Ho are down at your feet, wallowing in the mud! How will anything you do, up there on the high road, be noticed??

You shouldn't consider for ONE SECOND what that piece of adulterous crap thinks of you! You're not trying to be her college room-mate! SF, LET her think you're unbalanced! Let her think you'll track her down like a bloodhound and are capable of beating the living [censored] out of her! MAKE HER SLEEP WITH ONE EYE OPEN! QUIT BEING NICE!!

So what should I say to her? I don't curse and I want to remain as cordial as possible, but also get my point across that I'm not someone who backs down from a fight. I'm a fighter and one stubborn woman, so I don't back down until I see no other choice.

First of all, to whom have you exposed? I saw you were looking for her family, did you find them? You need to expose this to her parents. Did you try www.intelius.com ? For a very small (like, $2) fee you can get names that are associated with hers. This could give you her parents' names, siblings, any exes, etc.

I quickly re-read your thread, and I can't see where you exposed to anyone but their employer. Can you bring me up to speed on that?

I would expose the A to her family, and then pay her a visit. If you're unable to physically do it, I would call her. I would suggest you tell her in no uncertain terms that you will do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

"Hello, is this Skankho? This is WH's wife. WH has confessed to me that he is still in contact with you. I tried to ask you nicely to get out of my marriage, but you have refused. Understand that I will do whatever it takes to save my M. If you do NOT leave my H alone you will never have a moment's peace. I have no intention of letting some piece of trash ruin my marriage. Do you have any questions? Because if you don't I expect there to be NO further contact from you to my H. And if there is I will assume you have questions, and I will be in contact with you to make sure you are totally clear that you are NOT to interfere with my marriage."

No foul language necessary. If she starts whining about how your WH is the one contacting HER, your response is the same: you will whatever it takes to save your M, and you will not give her a moment's peace if she attempts to contact your H. Repeat as necessary, then give her a firm "good-bye" before you hang up.

Okay--sounds good. Thank you! I did find out who her parents are, but again--what do I say to them?

As far as exposure--everyone pretty much knows but her family/friends. My husband's coworkers, family, church, and many/most close friends know. That is one reason he ran so far away from home to live--he has one friend that condones whatever he does so he needs that right now.

Then half of your potential support system hasn't been addressed. You need to track these people down and expose this to them.

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Skankho's Parents,
It grieves me to write this letter, but I am writing to you to ask for your help. Your Skankho daughter has been involved with my husband in an adulterous affair that began while they worked together at XYZ Company. Your daughter was relieved of her job responsibilities after the affair was disclosed to their employer. (NOTE TO SF: USE THE LAST SENTENCE ONLY IF IT'S 100% CONFIRMED THAT THE A IS WHAT COST HER THE JOB.) I do have texts and emails that confirm this affair if you wish to see them.

I am reaching out to anyone who can help me end this, and as a mother I know that I would want to guide my child into healthy relationships and away from unhealthy ones, such as you daughter is involved in now with my husband.

I am sure that your daughter looks to both of your for guidance. On behalf of myself, my infant daughter and my marriage, I am asking you to help guide her out of this terrible affair.

If you have questions please don't hesitate to contact me. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Sincerely,
Sign your name.

MB is soooo right! When I called my WHs skank-o-worse, she had the nerve to text me back, and I quote: "if there's anything I can do for you let me know." end of quote!!! YEAH, HOW BOUT NOT SCREWIN AROUND WITH WH & F**KING UP OUR KIDS LIVES YOU PEICE OF BOTTOM FEEDING LOW LIFE SH*T! Texting me like I need sympathy! OW got some balls alright.

The OW does not think of you as anything more than disgarded garbage. You're old news to her, she's the fresh meat for your WH.

AND...AND... you WANT her to think your unstable ...you may try to run her down with your car , come after her with a butcher knife women have ended up in prison over infidelity and I'm sure she knows this . H3ll has no fury like a woman scorned

Wow--that sounds really nice! Thank you so much! I never even thought to contact her family until the past couple of days. I'm not sure why it didn't hit me to do that---probably b/c I was dealing with so much at one time I barely knew which way was up.
Thanks again!

Well, Mitzie---she can think all day long I'm disregarded garbage, but she knows deep down who the real trash is! I'd like to send her to a landfill!

I would make the following suggestions. Call her and tell her that you know she is still in contact with your husband. (I'm not sure what state you are in and if they recognize allination of affection suits) but tell her anyway.....that if you get a divorce that you will name her in the divorce and that you plan to sue her for AOF. (If your state does not recognize it, a good attorney can come up with something else....I have seen it written here before but can't recall what it's called). Tell her that you will make her life a living hell and mean it. It is time to stop playing nice and sweet.....you are in a war! Also tell her family that when you call them. Maybe it will scare them to do something.

So after our conversation last night, my husband left to go back to his apt. He sent me a text to let me know he had made it back okay--which is normal. I just responded by telling him I was glad he made it okay. I knew he was coming ot see the baby today, but didn't really know what time. He will usually send a text letting me know, so I can let the babysitter know. Well, today he just showed up and told her he would be staying for a couple of hours. He isleaving before I get home from work, so I'm sure he is avoiding me. I've had no contact with him today. I don't consider myself in Plan B at this point, but I also realize that stricter boundaries are going to have to be set with him. So, where should I go from here. Do I let him start missing me and wait for him to contact me? Do I send him a text just to say hello? What's the consensus here? I'd been trying to be good to him and meet the EN that I could, but now that I know he is still in contact with OW what should I do? Does it change all that? Very confused....

SF, go back and re-read my posts from today.

Still, they have taken their A underground. If you can't find her on FB, it's probably because she has BLOCKED you. If that's the case, you wouldn't be able to see her at all, even if she was one of your WH's FB's friends.

Do you have access to his FB account? Can you login and make sure she is not his friend? If she is, since you're logging in from your WH's account, you should be able to see her, click on her profile and get a list of her "friends." At that point you can do a FB exposure (no, not posting it all over her wall).

If you find out that is the case, come back and let us know and we'll tell you how to expose her. Don't do anything until you find out how this works though.

Stillfighting, did you expose to the OW's parents? WE already knew he was still in touch with the OW, so nothing has changed on that front.

I would get this exposure done and then start planning on going into Plan B in the next couple of weeks. I wouldn't get a consensus,[our best thinking screwed up our marriages, after all] but follow Dr Harley's direction, which is that Plan A should last about 3 weeks and then Plan B is warranted. I would strongly recommend you go into Plan B because the longer you stay in Plan A the more entrenched the affair becomes and the greater the harm on you mentally and physically.

You would want to set up something where a child exchange can take place without you seeing him. I would get your locks changed, and find an intermediary who will remain neutral and pass on only pertinent messages.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

I just got the book Surviving an Affair yesterday, so I'm not very far into it yet.

I do not have access to his FB account. He changed his password and she is not one of his friends. I'm sure he took her off b/c all of our family knows her name, so I'm sure he knew someone would try to contact her that way. And, yes, his parents do know. I even told his mother the other night that he was still in contact with OW. I have a letter prepared to send to OW's parents. I have another coaching session with Steve set for Monday, so I'm waiting to talk to him before I act on anything at this point.

My aunt, who is my babysitter, can act as intermediary. I will allow him to come two to three days a week for a couple of hours while I am at work so he can see the baby. She can let him know of any formula, money, diaper needs we may have. He will no longer be allowed just to come whenever he wants. My baby is getting used to seeing him everyday and I know if the divorce goes through that will all change and she won't understand, so I need to just act as if that's going to happen so she won't be so confused and hurt. She's only 9 months, but she picks up on things and will continue to do so the older she gets. He will not (hopefully) be allowed to take her out of my home for any reason--including overnight visitation--due to her age and the fact that he chose to live so far away.

I need help with a Plan B letter. I need to go ahead and get as many ducks in a row as I can before I act on anything.

Sample of my Plan B letter:

I remember the day we met and thinking then that I might marry you one day. I remember talking on the phone for hours�falling asleep in the hallway of my dorm b/c we were up so late talking. I remember our first kiss and not being able to get out of your Blazer b/c the door was locked.  I remember our first time and all the passion we shared. I remember walking down the aisle to you and being so nervous because of this new life I was embarking on, but as soon as I became your wife all the nerves went away and I became happier than I ever have in my life. You did that for me. You have been a wonderful husband. You make me laugh like no other. You appreciate my silliness and laugh along with me. You took me to NYC and gave me lasting memories. I remember how excited you were when DD was born and how you just knew it was going to be a �DD� before we ever got pregnant. I have so many incredible memories of the past 12 years that I will cherish for the rest of my life. I remember a time that we were passionately in love and I long for those days to come again.

On our wedding day I made a promise to you in front of God and our family to love and cherish you, for better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, and in good times or bad. I have kept that promise in the past and I plan on keeping that promise in the future.

I apologize for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible. I foolishly neglected your most important needs and was ignorant to the fact that there were true problems. I did not fulfill you sexually and did not allow you to feel that you were a vital part of my life and our marriage. I selfishly put myself first more often than not. For this and more, I am eternally regretful and truly sorry.

What I have been able to do is recognize some of those errors in judgment and actions or inactions; and I have learned from them . The depth of my understanding will help me take steps that will ensure that they will not happen again. I have been taking courses through counseling in order to open my eyes to the needs of others and myself.
I am truly sorry for helping to create and sustain an environment that has made your affair possible and allowed it to continue. I too had a responsibility to meet your most important needs; and by lacking the right judgment, I did little to aid efforts in building and growing our love for each other. I lost sight of the importance of you as a husband and a father. Now I know I am more than able to not just meet those needs, but to be lovingly enthusiastic in meeting them.

I am more than willing to avoid the mistakes I have made in the past and create a new life for us that will meet your needs and then some. But, I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you in any way---phone, email, text. I am attaching a parenting plan that discusses visitation times for DD and other financial matters. If you want to communicate about DD, it will have to be through IM.

WS, this decision I make, I do not make lightly. It is not meant as a measure to punish you. It is simply meant as a way to no longer drain the love I have for you, even the kind of love I had for you during the time of the affair.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW, and I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing you are still involved with her. I love and adore you, but I cannot see you under those conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW and are willing to follow all measures to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other�s emotional and physical needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. I want to raise DD as God intended us to�together as a family, giving her the life she so very much deserves. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend once again.

I loved you when we married and I love you more now that I did then. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are involved, in any way, with OW. As soon as you can fully, permanently, and unconditionally separate from her; I am willing to do whatever it takes to start a full recovery of our marriage. WH, I want to grow old with you. I want to raise our precious baby together and give her the stability of family and home. When I said, �I do,� I meant forever. I want to be your wife, your friend, and you lover.

With all my love,
BS

Not bad in substance, but a pinch too long. May I?

Thanks for the feedback!

Maybe some of you can help me as well (sorry SF... we are int he same boat I know). What do you do for a plan b letter when WH is quite adamant that he does NOT want to stay married to me, has possibly moved in with OW, and is pushing the divorce to go through? I think if I were to make this appeal, he would say I am moving on and don't want to be with you. Do I not even bother with a new plan b letter and just give up? I have an appt with steve tomorrow.... I am so g-d confused it's not funny!

Had another coaching session with Steve this am. He is really nice. He does not feel Plan B is on the table for now, so I should just continue with Plan A. I also have a letter to OW's parents that I will be mailing tomorrow. Scared to death to do that, but I know it needs to be done. Like Steve said, my husband is supposedly "the one" and she loves him so much--wouldn't she want to share that glorious news with her family?! ;-) I know my WH will be upset, but this is the analogy I'm trying to use in my head: I'm a mama bear fighting for her cub (my daughter and my marriage) and I will take anyone down who stands in my way. I may go down in the process, but I'm not gonna stop fighting!
Steve also suggested I keep trying to approach my husband with the idea of talking to him in a coaching session as something that will allow him to see that a path to happiness is possible. B/c my WH is still in the fog and still involved with OW, he is still being incredibly selfish; so I have to make this all about him and his happiness. It's so hard being attractive and kind when all you want to do is grab your WS by the ears and shake them really hard--to say the least!

Haven't been on here in a while, but need some advice....

On Feb 11, I essentially went into plan B with my husband. By Feb 15, he wanted to work on our marriage. So he came home on Friday and we went on a date. It was fun and we had a great time together as a family on Saturday. He told me he was a fool and that it had always been me and always would be me. He was finished being "stupid" and knew he had gone crazy.
Well, now true withdrawal has set in and he is severely depressed and greatly angry at me.
My question--is the anger at me natural? He has said some hurtful things today and I keep telling myself that he has to work through all of this as part of the withdrawal and he will eventually come around. I've made it this far, I can't give up now. Right? Please help.

The anger is normal. My husband was like that too..........didn't last long, it's called withdrawal and they blamed us for it......for giving up their fantasy...........
Hang in there

Thanks. He asked me today if being angry at me was a normal part of this process. I told him it was b/c I was the reason he could not be with OW. I told him with time it would go away. He then just slams me with texts telling me he is sorry for hurting me b/c he doesn't want to be at home and that I used the baby to get him back (told him that wasn't what I was doing when I stopped contact with him b/c he was still allowed to see the baby). He told me that over time he might could regain his feelings for me but he just didn't see it happening. I did convince him to talk to Steve Harley, so he has an appt with him on Friday. He didn't want to do it but I told him he needed to talk to someone to help him through this.
Thanks for your response. I'm so hurt and scared. How long did this last for you?

Would it be a good idea to plan a getaway for us this weekend--even though he is going through such a rough time? Would it help just to get away and be together or would he hate me more?

I think it would be nice for him to have his talk with Steve and then the two of you take off for the weekend. Go somewhere nice and concentrate on building some good memories.

Harley does say this can help him work through the withdrawal. However, he also says not to expect much from WS during this time... so you would have to temper your expectations a lot.

Just a note..

You're doing a great great plan A.

But do NOT neglect the stick and please, please lose the civility when it comes to the ow.

Have NO MERCY on her at all. None! I mean it.

If and when you have to deal with her (and I hope you will call her out and expose to ALL of her family and friends) you will remember that she was not civil to you. She f'd your Husband, tried to destroy your family, and make your precious sweet baby grow up in a broken home because your WH was something she wanted to possess.

Why be civil to somebody hell bent on destroying you and your family and make your childs' heart break forever? I say that b/c my son went thru our divorce and it did break his sweet heart.

So heal. Do the BEST plan A you can do. But when it comes to the STICK part, if there is any exposure, please please lose the nicey nicey with the skank. She is the ENEMY of you, your marriage, your husband and the enemy of your sweet, sweet baby.

My husband left again last night for good. Said he just couldn't do it. He said it was over with us for good and for me to move on. I'm devastated.

SF... I am so sorry to hear this. You know I have gone through the same thing. I am unfortunately still holding on to some hope; why I don't know. there is a letter on here that someone posted recently that I found and it helped a lot. It I believe is called, what to expect if you marry your affair partner, or something along those lines. It was good.

I believe that your husband is saying that he just can't do it b/c of the withdrawal. Remember, he is like a drug addict withdrawing from drugs. They go through the same thing, that they can't do it and they want the drugs. They want those feel good fellings that they have had for so long, and your husband is no different. He will eventually realize what he has lost; don't doubt that for a minute.

Hang in there and keep coming back here for support. It is one of the things that has helped me through it. The only thing you can change is yourself so keep focused on that for sure!

Hugs to you!

OH! Those blasted, conflicted waywards!!

Still, he'll be back. He couldn't handle withdrawal. And when he comes back, you need to have some serious precautions and boundaries set up to protect yourself.

I suspect he's going to waffle back and forth between the two of you to get his needs completely met. I don't want to go against anything Steve might have counseled you, but I think now would be a good time to go to Plan B to protect yourself.

I think he is doing it b/c of the withdrawal, too. But, I can't get him to see or understand that. I tried. I guess this is something he has to figure out for himself.

Still, did you expose this to her parents?

No, I never did. Almost everyone else knew so I just really struggled with that. I know I should have and need to, but would it really matter now? Please don't beat me up over this. I can't take too much more right now.;-)

And I just talked to my lawyer and she advised me not to grant him the divorce, but to contest it so I could get it on grounds of adultery. The OW would have to testify. I'm sure she has no idea she would be drug into that. I'm not sure I can face her. It hurts too bad, plus I want to tear her eyes out.

Also, I was in Plan B and that's when he came back. When he left last night I told him no more contact that I had to protect myself. Do you really think he will come back. He was adamant that he was done.

StillFighting. I have been in plan b for two weeks, when my husband said he was done. He is back with the OW. Seeing her whenever he does not have our boys. I amhoping he will come back too, not sure why, but I do. He said he wants a divorce but has not filed yet. Waiting for that to happen. Have not spoken with him since he said he wanted a divorce.

In a sense I am still fighting and holding out hope, like you. I am sorry your daughter is so young. It is not fair. The selfishness of it all. I think the hurt will stay for awhile.

Honey, I'm not going to beat you up. But you do need to let her parents know. They may be the best tool you have to help kill this A.

Do you have their phone number? I would call them. Right now. Let them know who you are and that you are calling them to tell them that their daughter Skanky is having an adulterous affair with your husband Wayward Smith.

"As a mother, I know that I want to teach my children right and wrong, and I hope you share that feeling about your children, as well. I am asking for your help in saving my marriage and my family by speaking with your daughter about this."

Tell them your name and give them your phone number in case they need to call back with questions.

Edit to add: If they don't answer don't leave a message on their machine. OW may intercept it and delete it.

I will try to get the nerve up to do that. Do you think OW and husband are already back in contact. I know I'm crazy, but I honestly believe up until he left last night that he had not had contact with her---that's why the withdrawal was so bad. Do you think he has probably contacted her by now to let her know he left us for good?

And thanks for not beating me up! :-)

Yes, I believe they are back in contact. He left you to go get his fix. Who knows what fogbabble gobbledygoop he spouted to her. Nothing original, I'm sure.

And then he's going to get his fix, and when he's got it he's going to start waffling again. That's why you need to get some work done, so you're ready when he comes straggling back, apologizing for being so crazy. Get the call in to the parents, and make a list of requirements for what he needs to do in order to stay in this marriage with you. What are they?

NC letter.
Complete transparency, all passwords given to you.
Cell phone number changed.
What else? Remember to set the bar high.

When you're working up the nerve to call her parents, I want you to visualize yourself getting a call like that about one of your children. How would YOU respond? I know I would be very upset for the wife who would call me about something like that, and I would certainly feel great compassion for her. I would then track down my child and cheerfully ream her out for interfering in that poor woman's marriage.

What would YOU do if a betrayed wife called YOU?

My requirements are the NC letter, complete transparency, all passwords, calling me throughout the day, going to couseling or marriage seminars--whatever I ask, being the husband and father he needs to be, spending quality time just with me, helping me with the baby. Actions speak louder than words.
Do you honestly think there is hope here and it's just the withdrawal causing all this craziness? I feel really hopeless today.

Yes. It's the withdrawal. My husband did insane things. Insane. Said crazy things.

You're okay. You need to call her family. Now. Immediately. You need to, because it will hugely complicate the "perfect" relationship they think they have. They haven't had any real consequences up until this point ( unfortunately, dealing with you doesn't count, because in his wayward brain, you aren't you, you know?).

I know you are strong enough to do this. Go do it. We'll be here waiting. But release the information hounds. Create obstacles and roadblocks.

I must confess, I am terrified to call her parents. I'm afraid of Wh being more angry at me than he is now. I also don't feel I am emotionally stable enough to do it right now b/c all I've done today is cry. I don't want to call them and not be able to get anything out b/c of crying. I'm so sorry b/c I don't want to go against any good advice, but I'm just being honest that I am scared.

Oh, you betcha he'll be PO'd. Sure. They usually are, when their disgusting, pig-like behavior is put on display for the very people they would want to have respect from! Count on that, Still. Because you want that to happen! That will put pressure on the affair!

Here are two possible scenarios: The parents are morally bankrupt pieces of trash who get your call and don't give a hoot. They figure what their daughter does is her business. They mention it to their daughter and they all have a good laugh over her boyfriend's silly wife. OW tells your WH about it and laughs it off. He's still in good graces with OW and her parents.

He will not be particularly miffed in this case.

OR:

OW's parents are hard-working, honest folks who have spent a lifetime trying to instill values into their children. They get your call and are very upset with OW. They call her and let her know in no uncertain terms that she is NOT to be traipsing around, acting like a floozy with a married father. AND they mention that OW could be dragged into a messy divorce.

OW is upset because her parents are mad at her, and she lets WH know: "Your crazy wife called my parents, blah blah blah!!! Now they don't even want to meet you, blah blah blah!!! I can't believe she did this to me, blah blah blah!!"

Yes, your WH will not be happy with you at that moment. Because you just lobbed a big grenade into his little fantasy.

That's why you want him to be upset! You'll know you scored a direct hit on the A!

Yes, it's scary. And necessary if you're going to grab the ball and pull it back into your court.

I am guessing her parents are hard working ppl who instilled that in their daugther b/c she is a graduate of Johns Hopkins University. You don't get that far by being lazy.
I know I need the power back. I felt so good when I went into Plan B b/c I had all the power. Now I feel like a complete loser again. Thanks for the pep talk. I'm just very torn and emotional today.
My dad got my locks changed today. My WH refused to give me is housekey last night, saying he wouldn't give it to me until the divorce was final.

Let me translate this for you:
"I'm not giving you my housekey because I want to be able to come home when I feel like it."

Good job on getting those locks changed!

I hope that OW's family is the 2nd scenario. My WH's family has actually WELCOMED her into the family and invites her and her kids out to dinner, breakfast, etc. Wow... a year ago my mother in law was talking about how she couldn't stand her. Yes, my in-laws are moralless pieces of trash. And, so are Ow's parents and family too it seems b/c they are doing the EXACT same thing.