Hello,
I've been posting over on MA...but a gal from there suggested I check out MB's forum.

Married 18 years
M- 45
H- 42
OW- 62
3D's-13, 14 and one from PM 22.

6/09 Snooped in H's email and find "inappropriate friendship" with a woman he met in a bar in that same week.
7/09 Reassures me that she is just a friend
8/09 Truth comes out, one night stand in the week he met her, now keeping in "touch" via texts.But still claims only friends now.
9/09 I threaten to move out, demand friendship ends.
10/09-1/10 Things get better,but he sneaks to text OW...gets caught. I snoop through emails, cell records etc.
1/10 Find out H is seeing OW or so called friend on the side, has been all along.
2/10 Although I knew it had been PA, it is now deeply EA.
2/10 ILYBIDLY
2/10 H moves out
3/10 H comes back ILY
4/10 H moves out ILYBIDLY
5/10-9/10 H claims in relationship and a couple with OW.
9/10 H comes back ILY
10/10 Busted at the airport with OW
10/10 Told H to go stay with OW
10/10 H comes back crawling ILY
11/10-1/11 H says "just friends" again..texting OW all the time.
1/11 Tired of the lying and the back and forth, I don't know whether to believe anything anymore and accuse of H's still in EA with OW. Possibly PA by sneaking out to see her. H says it's over with me, ILYBIDLY
2/11 H hasn't moved out but has now stopped coming home. He is not living with OW, but living in another state where he is working out of town. Although he claims that he wasn't seeing OW, just talking to her a few weeks ago...I am now seeing evidence of the affair back in full gear.
2/14/11--Find receipt for Roses sent to both myself and OW. Hers are RED and card is signed "I Love You"..My roses are PINK and card is signed "Love Always"


Anyway...so why am I here and what do I need from this board?

Direction maybe on what to do next. I have told the other board that Plan A is not going to work. This affair has gone on too long to even try a Plan A. I think that I have had done Plan A in the past, not knowing it was called Plan A.

Seeing for my own eyes now, the words that he wrote on her Valentines Card..."I Love You" tells me that I am losing him to her. I didn't use any of the tactics described in SAA...well maybe other than exposing the affair to his family, my family, my kids...I wish now that I had exposed it to her family. Her friends and family just think H is great and have no idea what they are doing. OW was not married, single older woman (20 years older). I had toyed with the idea long ago to do the Facebook exposure to all of her friends/family but didn't. I don't think it would do me any good now. I have now seen pictures where the friends and family have accepted them as OW's boyfriend...and they look pretty happy with his company.

Little do they know that H is bouncing back and forth between us. In October he came home, and told me that it was final, he was done with her...but there was no NC letter sent, nor transparency asked for and he continued to contact and communicate via text/phone with OW. I did know that he had thrown out the "I Love You's" to her, but he always told me that it was just a response and that he didn't really mean it. I actually have a transcript of our chat where he said that things get said (such as an I Love You) in a moment of emotion and that just because he said it to her, doesn't mean he meant it. Well seeing it written on a Valentines card attached to red roses called Pure Passion bouquet, are not a moment of emotion. He is in love.

So where am I at now?? Ready to end it. Ready to go full force PLAN B..knowing that PLAN B is not to manipulate him into coming back. For all I care at this point, she can have him...he is too messed up, and he needs help. I do believe he is addicted to this OW. I do care about him, I do love him...I just can't do this anymore.

How does H feel about me?? Confused. I know he loves me too...he won't say it anymore face to face. Whenever he is around me, all he does is cry and say how messed up he is. Last night, he brought the kids home from having them all weekend and the proceeded to come looking for me since I wasn't home. I own a business, so I took off to go clean it around the same time H was bringing kids home. I was surprised to see H driving into parking lot looking for me. I asked him what he was doing, and he just shook his head and started crying again.

I think H loves 2 women and doesn't know what to do. He is one confused person.

Debating on whether I should thank him for the flowers he did send today.

Debating on what my next move really entails...and how dark I really want to go..for some reason part of me does not want to get nasty about it. I want to be firm, but without being nasty.

H is still missing his family life...Showed up at the house while I was at work and bought all kinds of superbowl munchies and made himself comfortable at the house. I came home from work and joined them, and then after the game he just smiled and waved goodbye to me and left.
The night before SuperBowl, he spent with OW having an nice elegant dinner. (Her pictures are plastered on FB of the two of them at dinner).

I have read half of SAA...need to pick it up and re-read the whole thing again.
I have been reading MB's stuff since last July, so I do know and see a lot of what is going on with my sitch in other stories. The I LOVE YOU just blows it for me though,,,it's just the final twist of the knife.

Last night while in tears, H says that he really is happy just being alone. He has that "feel sorry for me" tone in his voice. He doesn't want to answer to me anymore, says he is tired of my checking up on him, and I am not his mother and he WILL NEVER answer to me. Claims that his affair with OW is 'none of my business'...and that is isn't about if he wants to be with OW or myself, that it's about HIM and what makes him happy.

Your WH is not confused. He wants you and OW.


Of course he says this, he is a cake eater.


Why can't you Plan A then move into Plan B. The problem with your previous Plan A was it was full of Carrot and probably Love Busting.

It sounds like you want to recover your marriage. Is this true?

Trista:

I don't know who you are over on MA.

CK is recommending Plan A. I think Plan B is a BETTER option for you.

Its better to do a good Plan A, then go Plan B. So the wayward one can see what a marriage can be like, before you go Plan B. Your sitch has gone on to long, and no Plan A NOW can get the result that you need.

He likes his cake, and he's eating it ALL THE TIME.

Time to let him get a real taste of what 62YO OW is all about.

And that is a FIRM, Dark plan B.

Take the flowers he delivered today, and return them to him. "As long as you continue to see OW in our marriage, these are a slap in the face."

No more hanging at the house during the SB, or movie night, or any other night at your house. He moved OUT. So keep him out. If visitation night in Tuesday. the kids go to Dads that night. He doesn't hang at your house eating your food, and messing up your life.

Start treating him how he wants to be treated, As Single. Secure your finances and get dark.

LG

You need to expose the truth to her family and friends - that he is married, not divorced and that he hasn't even filed for divorce and neither ahve you. Also tell them that you love your husband very much, are trying to save your marriage but can't do so with a third party in the mix. As them for their help. Their tune may change if they know he is not divorced and truly is still married. You were given this advice previously on MA but ignored it and keep finding excuses not to expose. What are you afraid of? Just get on with it and expose it already.

Hi, Trista,

I'm sorry you're in a position to need MB, but MB is the best place you can be.

Your WH is addicted to the way the OW treats him...not in love with HER! It sounds as if you have probably done a fairly good Plan A, with without applying the stick.

I think you should be making sure that things are set up for you to do Plan B, but understand that Plan B is not a guaranteed that your WH will return home. Plan B is for YOU, so that you are not abused by his shilly-shallying around and back and forth stuff while carrying on an affair. A VERY DARK Plan B will give you PEACE, while he will be having to depend on the 62yo OW to meet all his needs...and she CAN'T do that!

I'm 60yo, and I just cannot fathom being with a man young enough to be my son...I'd be terrified that he would wake up one morning and see every wrinkle, sag, and stretch mark I have!
And, he will see hers, especially if they should get into an argument about something. So...Plan B, and maybe try another few days/a week of a stellar Plan A while applying the stick of Plan A.

I also think you need to broaden your exposure. Copy all of OW's FB contacts into a Word Document, because she will likely blcok your access to her page once you start exposing.

Expose to ANYBODY on her FB Friends list who looks like they might be family to her. Then, expose to her married friends. Give her a little taste of h3!!.

What is MA?

Trista, sorry you find yourself here but you will get good advice. I agree with LG -- Plan B all of the way in your case. As long as he knows that he can go back and forth he will.

No more home visition with the kids. Go to a lawyer and see what your rights are. Is he providing for you financially?

Send him a Plan B letter explaining that you do not want to see him till he has no contact with OW.

Expose expose expose to all of her family and friends. Tell your children and be honest.

20 years yikes! I don't care how good she might look but he is with a crypt keeper. All WS affair down.

Yes, it is true. I feel like he is too far gone. Am I wrong? Do you think with what I have told you so far that it's still salvageable?

My initial idea was to go PLAN A...PLAN A scenario does seem to make more sense with him, and you're right...before it was FULL of love busters. I wanted him to stop talking and communicating with the OW...so for me, here I was trying to work PLAN A...in the kitchen cooking his favorite meals and he would be upstairs texting her. So when I snooped and saw texting going on while I was doing for him, I called him out on it and it probably pushed him more toward her.

I say he is confused, because he doesn't know who he wants...so you really think he wants both? I sometimes feel like he wants her more than he wants me anymore...he has no problem going days without talking to me. He couldn't do that with her. I think he only lasted a couple of days without talking to her. It's so much easier for him to be a jerk and end things with me, yet he can't be the "bad guy" and end things with her.

And I apologize to some of the people who have been reading my thread over on the other board. This is all a repeat thread for them, and I have admitted that I am "jumping all over the place" emotionally. One day I want Plan A, one day I want Plan B, one day I want to be done, the next day I don't want it overwith but I don't want to do any PLAN A OR B, just my own plan. I need direction...I need to figure out IF I am even doing PLAN A right...I will post more questions in a minute.

I am afraid of it backfiring in my face and his completely ending everything with me. At least now, I have the tears and can see part of him missing me. That is what I want...I think in the beginning exposure to her family/friends would have been a great idea. I didn't...I don't think exposing it 2 years after the fact is going to do me any good. I think every WH is different when it comes to exposure. Sure with some of them, it's gonna work..it's gonna end the affair. My exposing it to her friends and family, just makes me look like the bitter wife. Knowing him, it will just push him closer to her. She talks trash about me already...they will have a trash fest about how crazy I am...and I'm sorry it will just backfire.

READ the "carrot & stick" link in my sig line.
Start at the top.
Read all of it.

Trista, if you don't resolve to take the firm action required to end this affair you'll be in this mess indefinitely.

I used to work with a woman whose husband went back and forth between her and his OW for YEARS. As in DECADES. Is that what you want? Because he's liking things just like they are, having both of you filling his needs.

It sounds like you don't really want to do anything to force the end of the affair or to protect yourself and your kids. Am I hearing that right?

Plan A .... all carrot and no stick = no plan at all

NO ONE HERE will advise you that.

You need to go Plan B to save yourself from his craziness.

Expose, some of the vets will help you with this with a better explanation than I can give.

Of course they will talk trash and call you crazy. That is normal wayward babble.

When you expose explain to all that your H has come back and forth to you many times during this period.

Will WH be mad of course -- of being discovered that he is not who he is pretending to be. No all of these waywards are the same and follow the same script. Read all of these stories.

Have a plan.

Plan B letter
Expose to friends and family
Finances protected...

Do not tell him you are exposing just do.

Exposure...

If he get angry, yells, threatens divorce, goes all crazy on you then you did exposure RIGHT!!

If he doesn't care you did it WRONG!

Good luck

Exposure will save your marriage if you do it correctly.

Trista,

So you're willing to have a cake-eater turn you into a doormat rather than stand up and fight for your marriage? Wow!

I am going to quote my good friend Melodylane who is much better at explaining exposure than I could ever hope to be:

"You are probably not going to make it because you are more motivated by fear than a desire to save your marriage. Folks that allow fear and emotion to drive their decisions don't save their marriages. The ones who make it have the ability to set aside their emotions long enough to follow a plan. Those who can't do that, don't save their marriages."

So let me get this straight...although I have exposed it to his family (mother, father, grandmother, brother, step-mother etc) and all of my family (dad, mother, brother,children, even ex-husband) that I should now expose to her family?

I am afraid...but I will do it if that is what it takes.

What does it accomplish though, telling her family (which really is just her sons (3 of them, one of them being same age as H), sons wives, her sisters and their husbands?? I don't know what telling her friends does either, I think this woman already has a reputation that her friends know about.

I did hear through the grapevine that her family was not happy about her bringing H up to the lakehouse for the summer family vacation.

Not being defensive, just asking

Oh and I expose to her family when? After Plan A and before going to PLAN B?

Here is an idea...He is scheduled to go on a trip to Costa Rica with her in March. The trip is for her sons wedding. He didn't tell me about the trip. I snooped in his emails and found the itinerary sent from OW. I confronted him about it, and he told me that he was only going because she kept hounding him to go and because her son was getting married. So maybe I should expose just before the Costa Rica trip. Wouldn't that be fun for everyone going?!!

I just keep thinking that blood is thicker than water and these people will stand by OW and think I am a nutcase emailing them all like this. I have heard that the children would never go against mother, as they might be written out of the million dollar will.

Trista, yes I would suggest you expose it the OW's entire family. If they know he is a married man, they may have some objections about that and do something to end the affair. If she has a facebook account, I would expose that way. We have a sample letter for you.

Before you do that, I would strongly suggest you go into Plan B. You have been competing with the OW now for almost 2 years. Dr Harley recommends about THREE WEEKS of that before going into a dark Plan B. You are WAY overdue.

What has been happening here is that you have been unknowlingly propping up the affair by making yourself available to your H and meeting some minor emotional needs. Seem the OW meets 1-2 top needs so you have essentially been propping him so he gets ALL his needs met. Like someone else mentioned, he is not confused at all, he has chosen you BOTH.

And in the meantime, you become and more unattractive by allowing him to beat you down emotionally with his abuse. His affair is about as abusive as it gets and you have now been tolerating this for almost 2 years.

I suggest you take your life back in your hands today. Shut him down. Send him a Plan B letter, change your locks and don't let him get through to you unless and until he meets these conditions:

1. ends all contact with the OW for life

2. never spends the night apart from you again

3. affair proofs your marriage and take extraordinary precautions to protect you

4. commits to a program of recovery designated by YOU

Unless he commits to all those items, you have no marriage. You have nothing to lose by holding out for very high standards. If he agrees to those, you have a marriage. If not, then you have lost nothing.

But what you are losing as a result of his abuse is your emotional and physical well being. No one should be enduring this kind of abuse for this long.

TristaB, the purpose of telling all of the people in OWs life about the truth of the affair is so your WH and OW's affair will be out in the open and they won't be able to lie to people about how they met, etc. I never understand how people can have affair partners at their wedding, the day that they are starting their new lives, and allow them to taint that special day.

You should expose this as soon as you can get the info on ALL of the people who you want to expose to so this can be done on the same day.

No, I didn't say I didn't want to do anything or I wouldn't be here asking advice. I am just confused on what to do. Everyone has such different advice. It's all good advice, I'm not complaining...I just want to do the best one for my situation. Maybe I didn't give Plan A a good enough chance. I did LB it like crazy. I am not going to act on it just yet, cause I don't have all my ducks in a row. It's not like I have to do something right this minute. I would rather plan out my course of action.

In the meantime, H is coming around and acting very strange. He is crying all the time, he is depressed, he is angry, sad, emotional...I am the stable one now. I want to see what his next moves are, without being doormat.

Please define doormat by the way I would like to see if I fit into that category. I didn't think I did, but maybe I have been.

I would go into Plan B by this weekend and THEN expose the affair this weekend. They will all be off work so they can call and email each other and whip each other up into a frenzy.

I would also send the OW a copy of the Plan B letter and put a note on it how you will fight for your marriage. [use the note in the book, Surviving an Affair] In it, tell her that there is no future in her affair because she will be eternally hated by the inlaws and your children for her part in breaking up your family.


Agree!


"Blood is thicker than water" is the favorite excuse of family members who don't give a damn. Some do, some don't. You never know who will support the OW and try to persuade her to end her affair.

Do your children know of the affair?

I would not worry about this one bit. Plan A is simply conveying to the WS that you would be willing to meet his needs in the future IF HE ENDS HIS AFFAIR. There is no such thing as a perfect Plan A. From today to Friday is plenty enough time to be as pleasant as possible so you leave a good taste in his mouth.

The danger in a prolonged Plan A is that it will cause more emotional trauma and you won't be able to control your reactions. Better to get out now before it gets worse. \


oh boy, I am licking my chops. I am even more convinced you should go into Plan B this week. This means the affair is crumbling and it is killing him. When you shut the door, the affair will really go into a free fall because he won't have you propping it up. I suspect the OW is very heartless and uncaring to him but he is addicted, so he gets his reassurance - his "fix" so to speak - from you.

Without you, the OW will be expected to step up the plate and meet his needs that you were meeting until now. She won't be able to do it.

So what will happen next is that he will try DESPERATELY to get you to speak to him. He will sense that his affair is in a freefall and will try to get through to get his FIX. The longer you withstand his attempts, the more damage caused to the affair. When he GETS that you really mean what you said in your Plan B letter, he will dump the OW, if she hasn't dumped him by then.

I am licking my chops. Your H's demeanor tells me the affair is in BIG TROUBLE. There is no better time to shut the door.

Trista! Welcome! So glad you're posting. One thing you'll find around here is that the advice is pretty much consistent and it's coming from people who have actually saved their marriages.

I agree, it's definitely time for Plan B. But you need to do it right, no backsliding. There are steps to take to get ready for it, it's not something that you jump into unprepared. Seal all the cracks, shore up the financial aspects, etc.

Keep posting. You'll be so glad you did.

If you have allowed your WH to float back and forth between you and OW for TWO YEARS, I'm sorry, sweetie, but you qualify.

:::briskly dusting off hands::: But don't worry about that now! You're here and you're getting the tools you need. You just didn't have them before. So you won't qualify for doormat for long if you follow them!

Get your Plan B letter ready. I wouldn't wait until just before they leave - get it ready now. Sister, you need to rock his world. He's going to find out that the rules of the game are about to change.

Have you read about Plan B yet? Read up on it here.

Trista, when you say you exposed, did you follow the formula? Did you ask for peoples support in saving your marriage? I just ask cause if you didn't I would redo. And absolutely expose to everyone she is connected to, it will create huge friction in the affair.

Exposure worked on my wifes affair in like two hours. She reconnected with an old flame, and was hopeless in love with him. It was nuts, but exposure killed it because it was all based on lies.

I say take Mels advice, everything she tells you. And expose the crap out of them. It worked a miracle for me. I am doing the hard road of recovery now, and exposure did for me what two months of plan A could not.

Good luck

Hi Trista,

Glad to see you're getting more advice.

I agree you need to get into Plan B.

Also, this:

Is an absolute non-negotiable. It really is. I know I've talked to you about it before. I know you're scared, but this is absolutely the way it is.

Your husband is a serial cheater who is able to cheat because he lives his own, independent life. He's a weekend husband. For you to recover, he will have to make MAJOR changes. Don't settle for anything less than MAJOR changes.

Expose to her family, make it difficult for HER to continue the affair.

Go into a Plan B for your own protection, so you can disconnect from his crazy.

Melody's post got me all riled!!! I want to do it!!! He has been so emotional all day.

Update: I told him tonight...didn't write it in a letter..just told him it's either all of him or none of him. Told him I loved him, and if he wanted to go get counseling or could sit me down and tell me 100% that he wants us to work out and be done with OW, then I would consider it. I will still write up letter to list all conditions...but he cried the whole time I was telling him. I just told him I couldn't do this anymore, that nothing has changed between us, him and the OW all year long and I'm not about to go through another summer of the same BS. I was pretty confident in what I was saying and I meant every bit of it. He said he didn't know if he could stay away, but he would "try."

I couldn't even hear him he was crying so hard. I just told him that, you need to go fix YOU! I can't help you, you can only help yourself. You are miserable where you are...you're in turmoil, yet you won't do anything to help yourself. I said, "if you are willing to do counseling with me, and can end your affair with OW for good, we'll talk" until then we're done. We did not talk about divorce or filing anything right now. So guess I'm not doing any sort of PLAN A. It wasn't gonna do me any good anyway. The crying tells me I did enough Plan A.

@TristaB -

Set your bar high! If your WS wants to stay married he needs to more than "try", he needs to do. You can demand this.

Demand he have NC with OW forever or he will be divorced.

Get your Plan B ready.

What are the requirements for you to stay in the marriage again?

Yep. Because he's now realizing that his ride is about to come to a complete stop. He's addicted and you just told him that the crack pipeline has dried up.

Trista, we've got a saying around here: look for action, not words. That goes both ways. He needs to show you right now that he means it, and you need to show him the same thing.

He needs to:
Write a NC letter that you approve of and YOU mail to OW.
Give you all of his passwords to his cell phone, email accounts, etc.
Change his cell phone number.
You need to get a GPS and put it on his car (without his knowledge!)

Caution: Your WH may try to convince you to let him see OW 'one more time' to break it off in person. He'll say that it is the 'gentlemanly' thing to do. Crazy waywards
Allow him to do NO SUCH THING. That will just give them the opportunity to weep with each other over the 'end' of their love story Then they'll have makeup sex and the A will continue to roll along.

Stick to the plan, Trista. Because I'll bet you a box of doughnuts that he's going to attempt to negotiate with you to keep OW in the picture.

Remind me: do they work together?

Hello;
It is time to do some reflection and self care. Plan A is a great thing to start with, but it takes a huge emotional toll on the BS. How are you holding up today?

People plan A during an active A, but there is usually a time limit set on it. Only you can decide HOW long you can do this and remain pro marriage and emotionally healthy.

If your LB (love bank) drops too low, you will resent your WH and lose the motivation to save your M. You need to move into plan B before that happens.

Maybe you are at that point already. If so, follow the plan B advice. Plan B takes planning and help (you need an IM- you need to know how the finances/support is going to be coming in, etc.)

Plan B is made to protect yourself from the A. A BS can only watch an active A go on for so long.

Trista,

Sending my support, I love that you are taking control of your life again and doing everything in your power to save your marriage, the vets here are the best, they give you the strength and friendship you will need to get through this.
Your marriage isn't over by a long shot, but you have to get back into the driver's seat........
I love the conversation you had with your husband last night. I think Maritalbliss is right, he is upset because he wants both of you, and you are getting off his train of destruction......fantasy is finally hitting reality.........let that do it's job, let him feel the brunt of his decisions. Self awareness is exactly what needs to happen, he won't ever be accountable if you don't force his hand.
You keep your chin up, stay strong, always look good, smell good so he can really get a good sense of what he is going to lose.........
hang in there

Trista, what exactly did you tell him? If you told him that you were not going to be able to talk to him, etc, you may actually need to enter Plan B TODAY for it to be the most effective.

Give us a run-down of what you said to him(as best as you can remember) so we can see what to advise you to do next.

Trista,

Exposing to her family after two years AFTER the affair was over might get some differing opinions. I don't think anyone here would fault you for exposing while the affair is still in progress AND he is still seeing you.

After coming here and learning about affairs, I understand that dating seperated/about to be divorced men is wrong; however, before MB, I probably would have accepted it from a friend or relative assuming that "it was just a matter of paperwork." HOWEVER, even then, IF I had found out that not only was the man married but there was no paperwork and he was still involved physically and emotionally with his wife, you can be sure that would be unacceptable. What I am saying is, even without the benefit of MB, most rational people would not like to see their friend or loved one involved with a married man.

Exposure isn't vindictive, it is just giving people the facts that they might otherwise not be privy to.

Trista:

All the proof you will ever need about what kind of man he is, is the day he gets on that Plane to Costa Rica.

If your expose over on her side of the family, and he still flys to CR, than it doesn't matter.

You can Plan A him to death till the day that that plane is taking off. And if he does get on the plane, your M is over.

He is interested in having fun. CR is more fun than anything else. OW is more fun. Everything else doesn't matter.

Time to cut THAT out of your life.

That is why Plan B is recommended for you.

LG

Did you read any of my posts?

Trista. Are you able to put aside your emotions long enough to follow a plan? Can you follow a plan?

My number one requirement is for him to end the affair completely, no friendship, no nothing...He even had the nerve to tell me again last night that he "really enjoyed her friendship".

Working on my PLAN B letter today, it will be delivered tonight via email. I am feeling so strong today!!

Does anyone have an example of their own Plan B letter I can read?

And I am exposing to her family as well. I have nothing to lose. I've already lost him this much, it can't get much worse.

Yep, that is how it happened the last time he was "ending" their affair. She cried, he cried...He told me he had to do it in person, yadda yadda. And you're right, the affair kept rolling along. He doesn't want to give her up for any reason right now. He is clinging to what he thinks is a "good friendship"

This is very very dangerous. My WH said that all the time after his first A, I did not follow MB principles and did nothing to assure a good R. He just wanted to come back to the M and pretend nothing had happen.
3 years down the line he had his 2nd A and the M ended...

Go to plan B.

Example of letters have been posted many times but it is also in the book SAA
If no one posts one now I will find the one I send my WH and post it for you
blessing

Yes, last night he even said the words, "I NEED BOTH of you in my life."

they do say that, very often. My WH did before ending his first A. You can almost write a textbook on how they behave. And almost for sure, if you do not do a good R now, your WH is heading for A # 2 very soon.
blessing

Yes, well my thinking that I could let him be friends with her, really backfired on me. Here I was thinking I was being selfish by not allowing him to continue what he says "was just a friendship." I really got down on myself for not being able to be that kind of person who could let my H have a friendship with a woman, without being jealous. Even after I knew the A was physical in the beginning and I used to get so angry with him for texting her and calling her as soon as I left for work, and he would get so mad back at me for grinding him about it, and I heard the words "friendship" for months! "Oh she's such a good friend, she's so intellectual, we can talk for hours about everything and we have so much in common...and she is intriguing and her family is intriguing" and on and on and on. Well now he is in love with that person, who he is still telling me "what a GOOD friend she is" (puke).

Yes Melody...I did...that is why I said what I did say last night to him. I want to compose the letter today. I need help writing it. Costa Rica is only 5 weeks away...

Yes, again I heard that before from my WH.
The "in love" stuff is difficult and your WH is not at a stage where he is repentant. He wants both of you.
Till he decides what to do he is going to be very hurful to you.
YOu need to protect yourself from his madness. It is not love he has for OW, it is madness, addiction and fog.

Blessing

I asked him if he was still going to Costa Rica, and he said he "didn't know"...I said "I knew you were going to say that, you are so predictable"
So then I said "so what's stopping you from going, work related?" and he says "why don't you tell me since I'm so predictable" and I asked "is it me?" and he just says "Sure"..again...not very clear answers.

He really doesn't want to talk about it at all, in fact he changed the subject pretty quickly after this conversation. That conversation above, was via text.

So then I called him...

It started out with my questioning him about how he feels about OW. I asked him if he was in love with her..and all he could tell me after a 15 second pause was "I might be" (sounded like a mouse trying to squeak that out over tears)

Then I proceeded to tell him that I loved him, but will not put up with his having both of us in his life. This is where he said "but I NEED BOTH of you in my life.

I asked him "why" and he said "he didn't know why"..

The friendship factor with her was in the conversation...I asked him if he could really end it with her and come home and be a family again, and he said "I don't know" (he says I don't know to everything)

This is where I started saying that I am not going to take the "I don't know's" for answers anymore and that I need real answers and real actions or I won't be in his life anymore."

He got VERY upset and said "why? Why do you want to keep me totally away from you..why do you say that" and I just said "it's not right...it's not right that you are getting something emotionally from both of us." I said "we are your family, we love you, we want you to come home and be back in our family. You have never given our marriage a chance since you met OW. I could do everything I could ever think of and it wouldn't keep you away from OW, because you refuse to give that up"

It got to the point where he was only crying on the phone, only listening to me while I talked. I got tired of listening to him cry, so I just said "I'll let ya go" and that was that.

A couple of things I want in my Plan B letter, I want to address Costa Rica and if he gets on that plane...

another thing I would like to address in Plan B letter, is making her take ALL pictures of him and her together OFF of her facebook page.

there are other things I want in my Plan B letter, I will try to think of them.

Where does he live? You can not go into plan B veryeasily with someone who lives with you.

Do you have an IM?

How will you support yourself during this time?

You do not do a proper plan B flying off the handle. Slow down.

Don't say anything about the pictures on OW's facebook page.

You can't control her page and, hopefully, neither can your husband someday...(even if your husband wanted to respect your wishes...if he tells/asks OW to do it because YOU said he must...I doubt she'll do it for him...why would she unless it benefits her somehow)

AND

You'll just be letting OW know she's successfully getting under your skin.

OW is NOT your competition. She's a whoore. She's your enemy and the enemy of your family.

Mr. Wondering

Hi Atena, Yep that is how it pretty much happened in the last "false recovery"...H came home and wanted to pretend like nothing happened. This was before I found any sort of MB forums. I didn't know what to do back then. Now I do, and yes I am ready to go PlanB. I have never felt more in control of what I want and what I plan to do to get it. Every time I allow him to go back and forth between us, he just gets deeper emotionally into her. I do realize that Plan B is not going to manipulate him into coming back nor will it be guaranteed that he will ever come back. Plan B for me, is really to move on, and stop letting his affair be part of my life. I don't even want to hear anymore about her or him or what they are doing, or where they are flying to next.

Why don't you start working on your letter and let us take a look at it?

thank you for clarifying that...Yes, I don't want her to know anything about how she gets under my skin.

This sounds like a person ready for plan B

Very True...DON'T send the Plan B letter tonight.

Plan B needs to be coordinated and timed. Although the "timing" seems right (after he tells you on the phone he needs both of you) the "coordination" part doesn't seem ready.

Once you Plan B...you MUST go dark. Especially in your situation where you husband has been cake eating for over a year. He's NOT going to believe it and he's going to fight to break your darkness. Coordination means cutting off his most likely reasons to break no contact with you PRIOR to implementing Plan B. Things like contact over the kids, money, taxes, etc. need to be worked out. Joint accounts CLOSED or otherwise handled such that he won't have any reason to contact you.

Mr. W

Where does he live? Well for the last 8 mos he has been living M-F in California, because he is working on a construction project there. His company pays for an apartment that he lives alone in near the job site. Then he would come home on the weekends. During the affair time, he had moved out (took only his clothing and nothing else) and went to stay with a male friend, then he came home again, then he left again...this time he went to stay with OW..then he couldn't stand being around her 24/7 on the weekends, so he would leave her house and go try to kill time doing something else. He has told me in the past that he is uncomfortable staying in her home with her. He says he feels like he is in her way...like she has things to do and he's just sitting around. He said she got mad at him one day cause he sat around all day on a Sunday and watched John Wayne movies and was a couch potato. So he definitely would NOT move in with her. I almost know that is 100% sure. He likes dating her, without having to live with her. That is why he is afraid to lose his family life...he has told me before that "WE (me and the kids)are the only stability he has in his life."

So up until about 6 weeks ago, he 'was' living at home...just on the weekends. He 'was' acting like he was happy to be home and back into the swing of family life, mowing the yard, taking care of the pets, taking care of the pool, taking kids to school, bringing me lunch. It was only when I called him out on a morning where he got up early (4:30) to go to the gym and never came home before going off to a class that he was in town for. The class began at 8 am and he told me that he got showered and dressed at the gym and THEN went to class. I called BS on it. He has NEVER got showered and dressed at the gym since I've known him. I can almost guarantee he went to her house after he went to the gym, then showered at her house and then went to class. Since that day, he hasn't been coming home on the weekends anymore. He has stayed away. He came in to town on Jan. 31, the night before my youngest daughters birthday and stayed in a hotel, even though I asked him to stay at the house. I am sure has probably stayed with her a few weekend nights since then because he has gone MIA on some of the weekends, since the gym morning.

How will I support myself during this time? H has already agreed that he will continue to pay mortgage, utilities, and put money into our joint account for groceries etc. He has never wavered on this in the 2 years of the affair. This is the least thing I am worried about. My name is not on the house, so if he lets it go...that is his problem. I have my own business, and I already pay for the lease on that as well as my car payment and car insurance. If he pulled the house out from under me, I would just go get an apartment. I make good money on my own. I will let him pay for everything as long as he wants to, and maybe try to stash some of it out of the joint account as he makes deposits.

What is an IM?

My biggest problem is going to be with the kids. They are teenagers ages 14 and 15 (girls)...The older one, knows everything. She knows about Costa Rica, she knows about the roses sent to both myself and OW yesterday. She asked me last night what I talked to 'dad' about...I told her that I am going to put an end to his coming around here, showing up while I'm at work and making himself comfy, coming around on holidays to get his "family" fix...not gonna do it anymore and she just smiled. My 15 year old has been telling me to do this all along. I told her that it doesn't mean that she can't love her father and see him...I said "this is about not letting dad think he can see both me and OW" it has nothing to do with you kids. So 15 year old won't be a problem...she is actually very supportive. It's my 14 year old who is stuck to daddy like glue. This kid is not going to like not having daddy in her home to snuggle with while watching tv. I have never seen a child so close to one parent as she is to him. Throughout the affair, she has taken her fathers side. She has said some ugly things to me, including when I try to discipline her, "that's why dad doesn't like you!" H has introduced my 14DD to the OW. In fact, during the summer...H took 14DD to the movies with OW. 14DD said she was really uncomfortable with dad's surprise move..that he did not tell her OW was even going with, they just stopped off at her house and picked her up. Also, during the time H was staying the weekends with the OW, he picked up my DD14 and took her over to the OW's house to go swimming. OW was so happy to have her at her house, even took pictures of H and DD14 in the swimming pool laughing and having fun.

I think I need to sit DD14 down and explain to her, why I am doing PlanB. I won't call it that to her, but she needs to know why I am doing this and to help with not letting dad in the house. It's going to hurt her though to see her dad hurt that he can't come in the house.

I will wait to send out PLAN B letter. I actually think I should type it up and then print and put in an envelope and hand it to him?? what do you think?

Trista --

Get this affair exposed IMMEDIATELY.
No more game playing and trying to ruin his Costa Rica trip.

Get it done today.

Contact her sons or daughter-in-laws personally by phone and explain who you are. And ask them for their help in saving your children's family.
Expose to all of her facebook friends and family. Slowly, you need to send a few at a time so that you don't get spam-blocked by facebook. Print out a copy of all of her friends first, because she will likely block you when it starts coming at her.

An IM is an intermediary. When you go into Plan B, your husband will not be allowed to contact you directly anymore. No more phone calls, no more text messages. Anything he needs to communicate goes through the IM. This protects you from lovebusting him, and makes him get ALL of his emotional needs met by OW (who will FAIL).

Do not wait to give him the letter.
Give it to him sooner than later.

It is a personal love letter -- so make sure it is handwritten.

Your kids are old enough to deal with him directly.
You do not need to be involved, and you are not responsible to make sure he has a relationship with his daughters. That is his job. He can call them. He can make arrangements with them.

I would put your foot down about him bringing them around OW.

And honestly our finances have really always been separate anyway.

His name is not on my business...nor my business checking acct.
He has his own checking/savings and I have my own checking and savings, and then we have a joint account that only "I" have used for the past 14 years...I don't think he even has a debit card for it nor checks. He only uses it to deposit money into from his checking account, so that I can go buy necessities for the house and/or kids.

Taxes---we file separately.

Kids--he can see them when he is in town...however....they must be picked up and dropped off. No staying at the house to visit with.

Wow, he has really normalized his behavior and you have allowed it.

Set them down now and let them know it is illegal to be married to two people for a reason so it is immoral to behave that way. Don't talk bad about him but let them know the vows you took and how it feels when he breaks them. Apologize for exposing them to this and let them know it is going to stop.

I think the discussion you had with your 15 year old was great as far as it shouldn't impact their relationship with their father.

BTW, IM means intermediary. It is the go between who filters info regarding your kids and finances. In plan B you are to have no anecdotal info regarding his or the OW's life (this means from your kids as well). The IM just gives you pertinent info necessary to parent your children or control your finances.

"Hey honey I miss you. The girls and I had a great time. We got ice cream and played miniature golf. Remember how we used to do that?" Unfortunately DD15 had an allergic reaction to the ice cream and is now on meds for a week. I am sending them with her along with my love.

Turns into...DD15 on meds for allergic reaction...info on the bottle.

So now you have your list,

expose to her side
reexpose to your side
talk with kids
get an IM


Good luck

Your 14 year old is your rebellious child. Rebellious children/teenagers LOVE waywards because waywards are nothing more than adult rebellious teenagers.

She doesn't need to be in on the decision to Plan B her dad. She's 14, she can arrange her own visitation. I also wouldn't let her know the whole plan b thing is....tell her nothing more than what you tell your husband (that is: I love you but continued contact hurts too bad. I am willing to reconcile but only under certain conditions...until then I want no contact whatsoever with you). You TELL dd14 that dad isn't welcome in the home anymore and not to let him in. Don't ASK....TELL.

Mr. W

Post the letter...

from your story...

the timing is right now...


NEED INTERMEDIARY PLUS A GOOD LETTER.

Let's go.

Mr. W

His name is on everything....telephone, water, power, alarm, cable, etc. I chose not to ever have my name listed alongside his on anything bill related. He told me in the past, that I could 'have' the house. I need to see if I can get it quit claimed as I am not on the loan. Quit claiming doesn't take his name off of the loan, nor does it put my name on it...all quit claiming does is tell the banks who the house goes to after it's paid off.

I am his beneficiary on ALL of his life insurances (I think there are 3) and he says he will never change that. This is not a defiant man, this is a sad, miserable, I've messed up my life man.
He's not He** bent on taking everything away from me...the more he feels guilty the more he spends and pays for. He just paid the entire credit card bill that I put mine and the girls cruise on..He also just paid my ER bill and pays for mine and the kids health insurance. Yeah, he might get PO'd with my conditions of PlanB...but it will only hurt himself...cause if he takes anything away, I will just go get my own place..then he really won't ever have a "home" to come home to after the affair. He'll just have an empty shell of what used to be home.

So in my plan B letter do I tell WH to contact his children to set up their own visitation?? What would I need an IM then for?

@Trista -

Your WS is totally ready to POP.

What are you going to do until Plan B?

IMHO, I would suggest that you Plan A your azz off.

This means you have to GIVE, GIVE, and GIVE.

I would also stop all talk about the Affair and also all relationship talk.

You want to feed him so much cake he becomes the cake. Then Plan B.

CK...I know this!!! I can feel it...I felt it last night when he was boo hooing like crazy, and I was the strong one..no tears coming out of me! He is ready to EXPLODE! He told me that he thinks about this situation "everyday".

I would like to post a transcript of our skype messaging back on Oct. 22nd when he was busted in the airport with her. It will be copied and pasted into the next message. THIS skype transcript is where I thought I was getting through to him. The night I busted him in the airport, I WAS STRONG. I was PO'd but boy was I telling him where he wasn't coming home to. He is the one who contacted me 2 days after his miserable weekend with OW. Transcript to follow.

Hope this helps give you an understanding of the role of the intermediary.

It's who all communications with your WH have to go through. Such person will filter out all the nonsense and, if a questions is pertinent and relevant, forward only that question to you. It puts a buffer between you and your husband such that:

1. You can begin to heal
2. He can learn what life is like without you

MB Intermediary Training School Thread

Mr. W

Trista --

Its important to understand that there is nothing you can SAY that will get through to him. Betrayed wives (BW) often think that if they just SAY the right thing, their Wayward Husbands (WH) will just STOP the affair and come right home.

That doesn't happen. What you need to do is make the affair UNCOMFORTABLE. So far, you've done the opposite. You've made it quite comfy for him to have BOTH of you.

And you let him come back with no requirement that he change all his bad behavior that got him into the affair to begin with.

So your Plan B letter needs to spell out the changes he will be required to make and sustain before you will reconcile.

@Trista -

But at some point you must stop giving and let WS make a decision. That is why Plan B is so important. It lets you set the requirements for YOU to work on recovering the marriage. You've been through FR (False Recovery) before, so it is critical that you set these requirements high.

Some of the reasons that you've had FR is because you may have set the bar too low. Also you were not willing to enforce your boundaries.

So in your Plan B letter you need to be very particular about the requirements and how they help with your boundaries.

Trista,

First off, let me say that this relationship is a little twisted to say the least. I'm 56 and cannot imagine having a relationship with someone your husband's age. Like someone else here said - too many wrinkles. And droopy boobs. And saggy guts. And gray hairs. And on and on. I don't care how good she looks from afar, SHE'S STILL 62. Face it, men age better than women, so the younger-guy-older-woman thing just doesn't work that well.

Listen, you need to do your husband a favor and end this thing for him. Do you really think he wants to be tangled up with this woman? NO. She'll be in a nursing home when he's just getting ready to retire and enjoy life. It happened for whatever reason, and now he can't break free. Until you push him off the fence that is.

And you must shove him off the fence with Plan B. DARK PLAN B.
Do it for him. Do it for you.

Do it for him - it will show him what life without you is like. He'll suddenly become part of the "hearing-aid-only" crowd and probably won't like it much. That might wake him up.
He will thank you for it 10 years from now. Trust me, he does not want to be in this relationship long term.

Do it for you - remove yourself from this twisted madness and let him wallow in his own slobber. If he wakes up and comes to his senses, you both win. If he does decide not to come back, then you have removed yourself from the madness and can work on you and live in peace without this woman in your life.

So sorry if I have offended anyone out there in the menopause group, but hey, it is what it is. We are all vibrant, young at heart, intelligent women who have lot to contribute to the world, but we just should not be out there busting up the families of younger men.

Don't do this to your children. You'll put them in the middle to their detriment. That's what your IM will be for. All communication goes through your IM.

I am only posting his side of the transcript. What I had to say is probably irrelevant. I just wanted you all to see where he was back in Oct.
He thought he was losing me because of getting caught in airport with her. 3 weeks prior he had made the decision to come home and we were doing better, and then he got busted with her at the airport...I have edited names, and cuss words I have added myself into some of it...if there is no name in front of paragraph, then that is him talking..

[10/25/2010 7:35:27 AM] I know I'm probably the last person that you want to skype with, but I hope you have a good day. Several things I want to talk to you about, but only when you want to....
[10/25/2010 9:17:09 AM] Sent an email to your email account
[10/25/2010 11:46:28 AM] no comment?
[10/25/2010 2:15:51 PM] : ;(
[10/25/2010 2:18:28 PM] Don't be (mad) me!!


[10/25/2010 2:52:35 PM] Was trying to be funny and decided this wasn't the time....You haven't said anything that I don't know. The other night, you really f'd me up. You cornered me and you know how I get when you do that. I was actually excited to get home. I was excited for Halloween. Saturday was a miserable day, not because I got caught doing something, because I really wanted to have another weekend like we did the previous weekend. I was happy and I thought I was doing better. (Let me keep going before you comment back, I am working while I am typing...)
[10/25/2010 3:06:30 PM]So many things have gone through my mind over the past couple of days. From f it to I am so fd' up. If I had a car, I would have run away. Even DD14 was telling me what an idiot I am, that says something! I really want you all to be happy. I have been talking with (male friend )about things and I think he may be the only real friend I have. He is very honest and has told me "You may get mad at me, but you need to straighten up!" I can accept your addiction diagnosis. When I was talking to you on the phone when you asked me if you could call me back, I was shaking! I only do that when I f up with you. I'm sure there are people here right now that think I'm on drugs or something. I go through a period where I feel relieved that things are out in the open, then I fall right back. The real stupid thing is none of this is about sex. Its about the feeling I get when I'm around you. I know you all say I wasn't acting happy when we were camping this summer, but I really was. Even DD15 is telling me that I don't smile around her and DD14 the way I was in those pictures this summer. No one will ever be able to win an argument with me that I am ever happier than when I am around them! I know when I say that, You always fall back on that's them and not you, but really it is all of you.

[10/25/2010 3:15:28 PM] When I f up the way I have, I honestly get physically sick. I hate to let you and the girls down about anything! That's all I have done over the past couple of years! I also think that you were trying to get into my cell bill, and possibly did and changed my password and I was pixxed! I didn't want to make a big deal about it to you because I might be wrong, but I was thinking here we go!!! Then I see...Facebook...I f'ing hate that thing. I hadn't looked at it in weeks and was killing time and I see what are probably very innocent posts and banter with your guy friends...I'm not a jealous person, but I got jealous!
[10/25/2010 4:05:05 PM] I don't know whether you have or not. (HE IS TALKING ABOUT ME FLIRTING WITH GUYS ON FB, I HAD TOLD HIM THAT ALL I EVER DO IS PLAY GAMES ON FB, NOT TRY TO HOOKUP WITH GUYS. I AM A HAIRSTYLIST AND MUCH LIKE A BARTENDER, I GET HIT ON A LOT..WH IS NOT USUALLY A JEALOUS PERSON, BUT I HAVE SOME MALE CLIENTS ON MY FB PAGE THAT MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT ME.
But, I feel the hair on the back of my neck as I see everyone around you try to encourage you to go out and hook up. Your step mother doesn't hesitate to make her little comments to everything, just gets under my skin.
[10/25/2010 4:06:12 PM] This is not about what you do though. Its about what I do. Me coming up with BS to justify my actions is ridiculous.

[10/25/2010 4:37:57 PM] : Well, I'll give you the events of my night. Worked until about 4:30. Picked her (OW) up on the way to the airport, flight was at 6:05. Got to the airport and sat at the bar and had two beers and got lectured for almost 3 hours.(By OW) Finally, boarded the plane and I slept most of the way to Phoenix. We got off of the plane and, I think she grabbed my hand and said that I didn't need to walk her to baggage claim. I didn't hear her, so I leaned over and said what? She said it again and I said no, I'll help you get your luggage to the car and just grab a cab home. She said are you sure and I said absolutely, I'm not going to let you struggle with your suitcases. She said something to the effect of that is sweet of you after listening to me all night. Nothing else was really said until bam!!! I know you said you just grabbed my hair, but you really did smack me pretty good in the process. It was deserved.
I asked him: [10/25/2010 4:38:40 PM] ME: I thought she spent the night?
[10/25/2010 4:39:50 PM] : She did. She slept at the apt. but I had my regular schedule...up at 4:00, to the gym and to work...Nothing significant happened.
[10/25/2010 4:38:52 PM]
At that point, I went on the defensive. Even after you left, she was telling me to go after you. I was just in shock.
[10/25/2010 4:41:11 PM] I don't know if it was because she had plans for the
weekend or if she could tell by the look on my face that I was basically in shock with what had
just happened.
[10/25/2010 4:45:22 PM] So, we got in the car and rode out to her house and she kept saying do you want to call the girls? I just said no. My phone had died sitting in the
airport in LA, it wasn't in Airplane mode. I couldn't have called if I wanted to. We got to her house,
I grabbed my charger and plugged in my phone. It took about 10 minutes for it to turn on and I
started to text the girls. I got your text that you could pick me up as I was texting DD14 I sat there
and just got pummeled by both of them and was just numb! Went to bed and just tossed and
turned all night. Don't know that I slept for 10 min.

[10/25/2010 4:49:01 PM] : All I wanted to do was head back to the airport and come back to LA....imagine that, one of the places I hate the most....I told her she could just take
me to the airport.

[10/25/2010 4:48:46 PM] TRISTA: So tell me about the 3 hour lecture...why was she giving
you shxx if you were with me...was it because you kept trying to communicate and keep contact
with her?
[10/25/2010 4:55:14 PM] : That was part of it. And she thinks I'm a real pushover.
She was barking about how after DD22 had treated DD14 and I, another Facebook deal, how
could I go help her move...to be honest, it really got to the "teacher in the Peanuts comic strip"
drone. There was discussion regarding was DD15 being any nicer and I said absolutely....she was
giving me the story about I needed to be a more forceful parent, because I'm the father...then she
was trying to sympathize with my financial issues and I finally blew up and said don't even try to
act like you understand my financial issues. I told her she had never had any and I wasn't going
to listen to that.
[10/25/2010 4:56:07 PM] : After she asked me if I wanted to call the girls on the
way home she spent the rest of the ride apologizing for lecturing me all night...
[10/25/2010 5:06:03 PM] : Not much was said on Saturday. I really just watched
football. She asked me if I was hungry a couple of times and I just said no. I was really sick to my
stomache. Finally on sunday, she told me I looked like a caged animal. I needed to just go and
thats when I headed over to the house. When I walked in I know DD15 was texting you and was just
waiting for your call. When you said it was ok to hang out for a little while, I was so relieved. I
really don't know where I was going to go if you said no.
[10/25/2010 5:07:23 PM] Actually, I also watched movie and was trying to
have dialogue with DD14.

[10/25/2010 5:09:15 PM]: Like I said, I was just numb. Not a lot of thought about
what I was doing at that point.
[10/25/2010 5:11:00 PM] : OW and I did have a discussion and I told her not to worry, I
wasn't going to move in to her house. Not quite sure what my plan is, other than maybe stay at a
hotel until I can figure it out or just stay in LA.
[10/25/2010 5:11:28 PM] TRISTA: did you guys talk about where your relationship is going?
[10/25/2010 5:11:43 PM] : No
[10/25/2010 5:12:15 PM] TRISTA: so why do you still say that you don't know if you are in
love with her?

[10/25/2010 5:18:43 PM] : I do enjoy most of the discussions that I have with her.
As they get more about my personal life, I enjoy them less. I don't think that you have sabotaged
anything. I think you have been hurt by what is going on and you have shown it. I know that when
I was flying in and staying with her, every week got a little more edgy. She was not liking me
being there all of the time and I really was having problems feeling like I was beholden to her. It
wasn't very positive. And you were out of the picture then. But, then I was craving the friendship
again.
[10/25/2010 5:19:37 PM] : And I started reaching out to you for that.
[10/25/2010 5:19:42 PM] TRISTA: you avoided the love question...just be honest. I can
handle that.
[10/25/2010 5:20:30 PM]: You said earlier that you didn't even know what love is
anymore. Do you really think I have the answer to that question?

[10/25/2010 5:22:12 PM] TRISTA: have you told her that you love her at all lately...say since
you came back here
[10/25/2010 5:24:23 PM] : I didn't really make her come around again. When her
brother got sick again, she was spending a lot of time at the hospital with her family (in LA). I think she
really just needed to get away from some of them, so I said if you ever just want to grab a bite or
a drink let me know. She invited me to dinner one night because she really didn't have any one
else to go with that wasn't wrapped up in the drama with her brother. I did tell her 'I love you' over the weekend.

[10/25/2010 5:24:50 PM] TRISTA: what weekend? How did she respond.
[10/25/2010 5:25:10 PM] She responded that I never say that anymore. This
weekend.
[10/25/2010 5:25:33 PM] TRISTA: really? after everything and the 3 hour lecture you said "I
love you?"
[10/25/2010 5:25:43 PM] really
[10/25/2010 5:26:14 PM] TRISTA: where?? In bed?
[10/25/2010 5:26:24 PM] : yes
[10/25/2010 5:26:29 PM] TRISTA: during sex?
[10/25/2010 5:26:33 PM] : after
[10/25/2010 5:26:38 PM] TRISTA: then you must
[10/25/2010 5:26:45 PM] : really?
[10/25/2010 5:26:48 PM] TRISTA: I think so
[10/25/2010 5:26:56 PM] : is that how you know?
[10/25/2010 5:27:03 PM] TRISTA: I guess...
[10/25/2010 5:27:12 PM] TRISTA: you wouldn't say it if you didn't mean it
[10/25/2010 5:27:18 PM]=: are you sure?
[10/25/2010 5:27:38 PM] : I've said it and not meant it before.
[10/25/2010 5:27:58 PM] TRISTA : I think it takes alot for you to say that...especially with all
that's going on with us..you don't even tell me that.

[10/25/2010 5:28:13 PM] Thats BS

[10/25/2010 5:29:01 PM] I told her that I love you
[10/25/2010 5:29:11 PM] TRISTA: when?
[10/25/2010 5:29:15 PM] : this weekend'

[10/25/2010 5:42:35 PM] = I am really emotionally exhausted right now. OW has been talking with one of her old flames also and I'm pretty sure thats who she was making plans with for this weekend or week, whatever.
[10/25/2010 5:42:49 PM] TRISTA does that bother you?
[10/25/2010 5:43:06 PM] Not really. If thats what she wants to do.
[10/25/2010 5:44:18 PM] TRISTA: so that doesn't make you jealous??
[10/25/2010 5:44:24 PM] : No
[10/25/2010 5:44:32 PM] TRISTA: but you love her
[10/25/2010 5:44:38 PM] : says you
[10/25/2010 5:44:53 PM] TRISTA: no says u
[10/25/2010 5:45:04 PM] : chemical imbalance
[10/25/2010 5:45:11 PM] TRISTA: came out of your mouth my friend
[10/25/2010 5:45:22 PM] : again, chemical imbalance

[10/25/2010 5:46:53 PM] TRISTA: so quit playing games
[10/25/2010 5:47:54 PM] TRISTA: do you love her?? just be fricking honest!! quit telling me you don't know what love is...you would not have said it if you aren't feeling it...covering it up by saying chemical imbalance is you trying to say that you do, but afraid to tell me that you do

[10/25/2010 5:48:21 PM] That's not it at all!
[10/25/2010 5:50:49 PM] I really don't believe that I do. I think that I get enjoyment out of her company. I really do connect with her on an intellectual level. When she is out of the picture, that is what I miss. I don't miss the sex, that's really not what the relationship is about. what I miss. I don't miss the sex, that's really not what the relationship is about.
I can text with her and really be satisfied with the interaction.

[10/25/2010 5:52:12 PM] So when I picture us doing things together, what is that?
[10/25/2010 5:52:22 PM] TRISTA: sex
[10/25/2010 5:52:27 PM] When I crave doing things together what is that?
[10/25/2010 5:52:33 PM] No, Its not sex
[10/25/2010 5:52:35 PM]TRISTA: family
[10/25/2010 5:52:48 PM] Exactly, You are my family.
[10/25/2010 5:53:04 PM] Families require love.
TRISTA: Then why do you keep telling her you love her if you don't mean it.
[10/25/2010 5:56:30 PM] I'm certainly not 100%, certainly not 50%.....I'm lame.

TRISTA:
WH when you came back we were never doing GREAT!! You were distant in the first 2 weeks...you never sat me down to talk about US and how we were going to make it work. You just walked in the door and said absolutely NOTHING to me. All the stuff about how we had a long road ahead of us and we both needed to work on stuff was a bunch of BS because you did nothing for us. What you did do though, was go back to LA and think about OW all the time and don't tell me you didn't. You killed yourself trying not to call or text her and the first person to reach out to make that first text or call after you left her was YOU! You thought nothing of the attempts of us trying to struggle through putting our relationship back together. We were not a priority...at all. That is why it was so easy for you to get a hold of OW and woo her back to you. After 17 years it saddens me that "I" am not important enough for you, for you to sacrifice another womans friendship/love/sex/whatever for ME! That says a lot. So don't paint this picture of how wonderful it was going for us.. And then on top of that, telling them you love them after you were lectured for 3 hours about your kids and your life, and you telling me you didn't want to fly with her, wanting to go back to LA, AND telling me she reminded you of Psycho EX-Girlfriend..that is true love!


[10/26/2010 9:23:12 AM] : I know one thing. I do, have and always will love you! Pixxed at myself!!! Yes, I don't show it very well because I'm afraid of getting hurt.
[10/26/2010 9:23:59 AM] : In doing so, I manage to hurt everyone around me!
[10/26/2010 9:27:57 AM] I think it says volumes! I said yesterday that I think you are an incredible person. Yeah, sometimes I don't like stuff you do, but thats to be expected. When I was laying in bed last night thinking about everything, I came to the realization that most of the times you have pissed me off were because you were confronting me about cheating, which lord knows, I gave you plenty of reasons to worry about that.

[10/26/2010 9:38:35 AM] : Believe me, I have been doing lots of soul searching since Friday. Telling someone you love them after sex is a pixx poor barometer of true feelings. Its an intimate setting and shxx gets said, sorry, but it can be meaningless. I was not in a very good state of mind and was reaching, or desperate, or whatever. My world had just imploded. I was trying to deal with my emotions, and made that statement about things being great off of something you had said yesterday. I see how everyone in your life so roots against me with the exception of my kids up to this weekend. Now even they seem to, really tells me what a piece of shxx I am. Do you know how difficult that is on me. I really feel like I have tried to do right by everyone, even you with the exception of the obvious. I have never expected anyone to be appreciative of the things I have done, but it does hurt when I see comments on Facebook for the world to see. Stuff like DD22 saying she wishes her dad was around to help with her wedding, like I don't even exist.
[10/26/2010 9:40:36 AM] : Thats kind of one of my issues. I feel like I'm there if everyone wants me to do chores or pay for something, but when it comes to the real things in life, I don't even get any consideration. That hurts. I don't want this to seem like a WH pity party. I f'd up! I understand that and have to deal with that. I am no one in Grandsons life and that bothers me..I was excited as anyone when he arrived.

SIDE NOTE HERE: H WAS ALREADY IN EA/PA WHEN GRANDSON WAS BORN. GRANDSON BORN SEPT. 2009 AFFAIR BEGAN JUNE 2009. SO HIS ARGUMENT HERE IS LAME.

TRISTA: You have popped in and out of grandsons life, that is your choice.

[10/26/2010 9:43:38 AM] TRISTA: you are making that, no one is doing that to you.

I THEN MENTIONED HOW WE TRIED TO GET HIM TO GO ON TRIPS WITH US AS A FAMILY, HE ALWAYS DECLINED THE INVITE.

[10/26/2010 9:44:06 AM] : But those were sheduled when I had to work at a time that I was being ruined (FIRED FROM JOB, FAILURE AT STARTING OWN BUSINESS) How could I enjoy anything at that time?
[10/26/2010 9:44:25 AM] I certainly didn't want to bring everyone down.
[10/26/2010 9:44:41 AM] TRISTA: the bottom line is this...you want OW, you don't want to give her up...you want everyone to accept that and still let you be part of the family even though it causes hurt and pain...
[10/26/2010 9:45:13 AM] : You are mistaken. I realize that is not an option.
HERE WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE NIGHT OF THE AIRPORT WHEN I ASKED HIM WHO HE WANTED AND HE CHOSE HER...THEN I SAID YOU NEVER CHOOSE ME/FAMILY.

[10/26/2010 9:48:09 AM] : Thats not true.
[10/26/2010 9:49:14 AM] : I sat at her house and took an incredible amount of abuse when I decided to take a cab back to the house. I did choose you. I was trying to do anything I could to make you happy.
[10/26/2010 9:53:24 AM] TRISTA: No you didn't choose me...you thought you chose me...but days after choosing me...you thoughts wandered back to her...that is not choosing me...that is telling yourself to do something that you think is the right thing to do when you heart is still somewhere else. Don't kid yourself or me. Then you told DD15 via text that you were sorry that you tried to make it better, but it wasn't getting any better...are you kidding me?? that is such a crock...it is again,,,, telling yourself that, as an excuse to make sense of what you have done. If you honestly thought it wasn't getting better then you were right...it was because YOU didn't try to make it better.
You should have been 100% determined to choose me and be with me. But when you came back here, you weren't. I knew by looking at the tears on your face that you still didn't know what you wanted. I knew that by how you didn't talk to me...and I still had to try to pry you open to get you to talk about it.

WE HAD TAKEN A BREAK IN BETWEEN THE CONVERSATION SO IT SWITCHED GEARS HERE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HIS ONE GOOD FRIEND WHO HE CONFIDED IN ABOUT THE AFFAIR.

[10/26/2010 3:51:06 PM] TRISTA: So how did you tell MALE FRIEND...."hey MF, I'm boppin this older lady..cheating on TRISTA with her for over a year now
[10/26/2010 3:52:51 PM] I don't really remember the discussion. But, I have had many, many discussions with MF. He is pretty straight forward with his comments.
[10/26/2010 3:53:16 PM] TRISTA: so why did you tell him?
[10/26/2010 3:54:36 PM] I talk to MF about everything. He's about the only one that gives me decent advise. He knows I've been struggling with everything.
[10/26/2010 3:54:54 PM] TRISTA: what does he tell you to do about OW?
[10/26/2010 3:55:45 PM] : He mainly tells me that I need to make up "my f'ing mind, because you ain't getting anywhere."
[10/26/2010 3:56:20 PM] TRISTA: I can picture him saying that....well now you can tell him I made up your mind for you
[10/26/2010 3:56:32 PM] really?
[10/26/2010 3:56:39 PM] TRISTA: didn't I?
[10/26/2010 3:56:45 PM] TRISTA: I thought I did at the airport?
[10/26/2010 3:56:58 PM] you did, but I was hoping...
[10/26/2010 3:57:13 PM] TRISTA hoping?????......................
[10/26/2010 3:57:30 PM] wishing...
[10/26/2010 3:57:50 PM] praying....me praying?? yep
[10/26/2010 3:57:56 PM] TRISTA: oh stop...
[10/26/2010 3:58:02 PM] TRISTA: you don't pray
[10/26/2010 3:58:23 PM] you think...I throw some stuff out every once in a while....
[10/26/2010 3:58:31 PM] TRISTA: like what?
[10/26/2010 4:04:43 PM] strength!!
[10/26/2010 4:12:27 PM] TRISTA you throw out strength?
[10/26/2010 4:12:53 PM] : Pray for strength to fix my life.....
I wish I wouldn't have traveled with her.(HE IS TALKING ABOUT NIGHT OF AIRPORT BUST)
[10/27/2010 9:10:01 AM] I agree with much of what you have said. Believe it or not, I was doing good with you last week. I was getting happier and happier with my decision (TO COME HOME), even though there were some setbacks (small) prior to Friday. I want to continue working on making things better and look at Friday as a big setback, but that is up to you. I sincerely can't see myself with out you in my life and I continue to cry. I really think at times I've been on the verge of a nervous breakdown...all of the stress that I've brought upon myself...sometimes its overwhelming for me. Even right now typing this to you I am shaking???? I've opened the door to the scariest nightmare I can imagine, not having MY family!!!

AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE END OF THAT CONVERSATION..I ended up letting him come home the following weekend after this conversation. This all blew out the window..because shortly after this...she was back in LA with her dying brother and WH wanted to be her shoulder to cry on. I kept reminding him of skype conversation and to END IT and he just kept saying he couldn't do that to her right now what with her brother dying in the hospital, so he didn't...we have been going back and forth over ending his communication up until 6 weeks ago when I accused him of going to see her in the morning. During Christmas time and New Years, OW did not back off..and sent many texts, emails etc. making sure he did not forget her around the holidays while he was home with his family. On New Years eve he got shixxy with me when I oversaw a text that came through from her on his phone, I asked to see/read it and he told me "no, it was none of my business"...we were back on the crap road again.

Don't bother posting his words. 100% methane and cow cr@p.

Here, it is called FOG or fog speak, and you will do well not even to listen to it.

Let him go to his cloven hoofed old goat of an OW. Baaaaaaa!
I swear, give him the boot and an old tin can for her to chew on.

You need to get away from this mind rot.

I have the SAA book with the example of PlanB letter...I will use that...but I saw some had posted there own version of Plan B letter too...I would like to see if I can find it to also gather some ideas on how to compose my own. Does anyone know of any threads with plan B letters written by others?

Thank you all so much,I finally feel like I have direction!!

Sorry, gotta get the kiddos from school. Here is a thread about Plan B letters

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2421094#Post2421094

Also, here is a thread about getting ready for Plan B. it's from 2006, so there may be differing views than now, so ASK questions.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1642447&page=1

so what are you doing about exposing this to OW's family??

I am going to do it,,,,trying to compile list of who it will go out to...those will go out same day as I give plan b letter to WH...

anyone have a good example of exposure emails.

Change the gender to your circumstance, if you have access to their facebook names send the messages one minute apart

Here is a sample from BigPicture.

Look in the archive Plan A/PlanB Threads.


I couldn't find the standard sample, but use the one from SAA.

I don't know that this is the best example, but it is what I could find. I don't think it is the best example, from what I understand it is to be a love letter of sorts, with a clear definition of what Plan B will be like; ie, who the IM will be, NC until all is ended with OW for good and NC with OW, etc.


Spouse,

I know our home is where my heart is because right now my heart is breaking. I long to drive home to my beautiful wife and amazing children and hug you all. But I can’t come home right now. I was planning on being there, with you and DS and DD and DS through Christmas and all the family celebrations. But after enduring this situation for 20 weeks, especially this week, I am totally spent and exhausted. Emotionally, physically, mentally, in everyway I reached my limit last night. I didn’t expect that or know that would happen or plan any of it. It just snapped in me. I almost had a complete mental and physical breakdown at work today.

You have told me you cannot make up your mind. This is torture for all of us. And I don't blame anyone. We each played our role and chose our actions. I just cannot bear the pain anymore while you are still involved and giving your time and emotional/physical love to someone else. Please understand that I am only doing this to protect myself from more pain, to protect my feelings for you and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery. Like you said this morning: I cannot take this anymore either. The toll on both of us has become too much.

I am not trying to ruin the holiday. I feel terrible that it happened on DS birthday. I am not trying to punish you or make you feel any certain way about me/us. I am not trying to pressure you for anything. I am not trying to burden you. I feel terrible about what is going on but I have to be strong. I need to stop seeing or talking to you under these conditions. Please respect my decision to separate from you in this way. If you choose to come back and work on our marriage, I want to know that you made the decision on your own. When you went to Florida you said you needed space. That is what I need right now.

I deeply regret my ignorance of your needs and my immoral behaviors. I have bowed before God and thanked him for showing me the error in my ways. I apologize for my part in creating the conditions that helped make your affair possible. I believe we can learn from our mistakes and grow from them. We can rebuild our love and become a family again. A great family and marriage! I am willing to avoid the mistakes of my past. You have noticed the changes in me and see that I am trying. I want to continue to grow as a person and as your partner for life.

Remember how if you want a new habit, you must do the new action for at least 30 days before it becomes a habit. With regards to me and my actions, please know that those are so very real and have become habits in me because I have been doing them for 5 months now, meeting your needs and making sure I address your feelings in my every action.

* The way I knew the snow in the driveway would make you feel AND addressing it with you, that was real! Remember you hadn’t even said anything about it. I just knew the way you were feeling about it and I wanted to make you feel better.
* The way you saw something different in me on Tuesday morning.
* The birthday party that I planned, not to win you back but because I know you love dancing.
* Making your coffee, because I know it makes you feel cared for.
* and all the other Acts of Service that you need to make you feel loved.

I did those things for you out of pure love, during the worst emotional storm anyone could withstand. And I did it with no expectations of anything from you.

When you have permanently severed contact with him I will be overjoyed to talk about our future. I have loved you for so long and continue to love you today. I want to be able to rebuild our marriage into a new life where we meet each other's emotional needs. Where our actions and everything we do makes both of us both happy. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me, through sickness and health, for richer or poorer. I hope you realize how much I love talking with you and how much I miss your affection. I want you to be my best friend, my lover and the wife of my dreams.

Thank you, working on the composition now...taking bits and pieces from threads and throwing in some of my own. H has reached out again to me today...so I am going to let that continue for a few days and work a very short Plan A on him. He sent me 2 emails this morning, that were just news clips that have to do with somethings we had talked about in the news and a house fire in our neighborhood last night...I didn't respond though. Guess I should have.

I am going short short Plan A, then right into Plan B and going dark. I may do it this weekend since he might be coming into town and I would like to hand deliver it to him. I will post my rough draft of Plan B in a minute.

I certainly don't think you need to go overboard on the Plan A stuff...but before Plan B is there a lot of stuff he will need to come get at the house??? Like personal items, clothes and such that once you go Plan B he will attempt to all the sudden need desperately???

Then...maybe you go Plan B when he comes home with your final Plan A stuff being:

1. House looks immaculate
2. his favorite dinner
3. House smells like chocolate chip cookies
4. You look your best....not overstated but hair, nails and maybe a tan (spray or real) such that you leave a lasting impression.


Then after dinner you send him out the door with all his stuff that you know he'll need packed up nice for him and you hand him the farewell Plan b letter with a kiss on the cheek and a meaningful hug and then CLOSE THE DOOR AND CHAIN IT.

He's OUT and YOU go dark as outlined by Plan B herein.

Just an idea. I've not done Plan B so I'm no expert. I know the first few weeks are really tough for you as YOU will go through withdrawal yourself and your own brain will play tricks on you rationalizing and justifying contact just as your wh will try to break through your resolve. The combo of simultaneous withdrawals makes it really hard to hold up your end of staying dark. Many fail and each and every failure only makes Plan B worse and less effective. At least your husband is out of town weekdays so you'll only have to really control yourself on the weekends....but GO DARK.

Mr. Wondering

Just to piggyback on Mr. Wondering's great advice:

After you go to Plan B, use this site as your support system and "Plan B breakage-preventer!" Before you make any moves to break Plan B, whether it be by "peeking" at Facebook or any such other thing -- no matter how innocuous -- stop here first and write about it.

Even the smallest 'crack' in Plan B can put back your recovery clock.

Seriously.

I speak from experience.

And today I am in the darkest Plan B imaginable. A black hole has more light to it than my Plan B.

Yes I am familiar with breaking Plan B on both parts. Before I found MB...I did a Plan B all on my own, not really knowing the in's and out's of it. WH broke plan B not even 2 days into it, by texting me pictures of our kids who were with him on a summer trip. It was his way of making sure I didn't forget about him, even it if was just the kids in the pics.

Then about 5 days after that, I BROKE Plan B by looking at OW's FB photos and seeing pictures of them at dinner, looking quite cozy and in love. There was a picture of him kissing her on the cheek, and I had had just enough wine at dinner out with my friends, that I went home and drunk dialed him and laid into him for the pictures. That wasn't pretty and it blasted the whole idea of NC that I was trying to do with him.

Oh no, don't hand deliver it unless he is heading out the door and won't be coming back. Once that letter is in his hand, there should be no more nothing. So if you do give it to him, either mail it, email it or hand it to him so there is no more discussion afterwards. You don't even want to be getting into a discussion about Plan B. You just shut the door and don't let him through. DARK AS NIGHT.

And then you have to have a plan for his attempts to get through to you. He will frantically try to regain control and will come up with all sorts of reasons why you have to speak to him again. He will not like losing control.

When you do your letter, I would suggest keeping it short, to about 5-6 paragraphs, tops.

*YOU* broke Plan B in that instance by looking at the pictures. It is up to YOU, not him to protect Plan B. It will be up to you to block his emails, texts, smoke signals, etc. He may even barge in the house so you will want to change the locks. But it is your job to keep the darkness. It is EXPECTED he will do everything to get through.

Oh okay, that is good to know..I will mail it to him I guess..I think if I try to email it to him, he will try to email me back.

I don't know that I want an IM. We really don't have any mutual friends.. He has never liked any of my friends and his friends are off too busy with their lives, plus most of them are jerks who egged him on with his affair. My parents don't live here, nor do his. I honestly know of anyone who can be an IM for us. How about if I just ask him to communicate with me regarding anything house related, kids etc. through email? I will suggest that texting will not work for me. That way he won't get an immediate response...which I am more likely to want to do when I see a text. Instead I will check my email when I get off work. For whatever reason, texting makes me emotional when I see his name pop up on my phone.

One other thing, what to do with his clothing. He has a ton of it here...should I box it all up and UPS it to him in LA? Maybe do it without asking him? Or maybe UPS it over to OW's house? He will probably be in town this weekend, I can see what he can take with him...Fit it into one of his suitcases and check his bag on his flight back??

But he can't email you back if he is blocked or you cancel your email account. And you will want to do that anyway because this is one way he will try and get through.


That defeats the purpose of Plan B. You can't very well tell him no contact and then allow him to contact you. That makes no sense and completely defeats the purpose of Plan B altogether. What you describe is what Harley calls "Plan C" which is the most likely to end in divorce.

I would box it all up and send it to him.

Do you have a close friend who has some spine who could act as an intermediary? It doesn't have to be someone who lives close to you. And he doesnt have to like her. He gets no vote.

I am also going to let him set up his own visitation with the kids...they are teenagers, so I'm not worried about letting their dad call their cell phones and setting up a pickup time. They can tell him other things when he calls too and leave me completely out of the picture.

I still would like to know if I should address the Costa Rica trip in the Plan B letter?? I know once he gets the letter he's gonna go anyway, he turns it around to make it sound like "well you broke up with me, why wouldn't I go".

But you won't know how he turns it around because you will be in PLAN B! And who cares how he spins it? That is not your problem.

I don't see any point in addressing the Costa Rica trip. Do you have the book SAA so you can use the letter in there? I would post the letter and let us give you feedback.

I will post what I have so far. It's kind of all mixed up cause I am adding in things, taking things out.

Dear WH
I apologize for my part in creating the conditions that helped make your affair possible. I feel that I set you up for seeking out someone else who would meet your emotional needs. For this I am deeply sorry. It was never my intention, but somehow I didn't understand how it was affecting you nor did I realize how to meet those important needs. Because I wasn't there for you, when you needed me the most, we are both now suffering for my mistake.

right now my heart is breaking writing this letter to you. I am breaking emotionally, physically, and mentally.I have reached my limit trying to hang on to our marriage. Something just snapped in me, and I knew that someday it would...I just really didn�t know when.

You have told me you cannot make up your mind and that you want both J and I. This is torture for me. We each played our role in this and chose our actions. I just cannot bear the pain anymore while you are still involved and giving your time and emotional/physical love to someone else. Please understand that I am only doing this to protect myself from more pain, to protect my feelings for you and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery. Like you said before, you are emotionally exhausted. The toll on both of us has become too much.
That is why we must separate.

I am not trying to punish you or make you feel any certain way about me/us. I am not trying to pressure you for anything. I am not trying to burden you. I know I mentioned ultimatum the other night, but that was the wrong word. This letter is not an ultimatum. I have never wanted to give you any ultimatums, hoping that you would choose the right door on your own. I feel terrible about what is going on but I have to be strong. I need to stop seeing or talking to you under these circumstances. Please respect my decision to separate from you in this way. If you choose to come back and work on our marriage, I want to know that you made the decision on your own and weren�t pressured to make that decision by me.


I am willing to avoid the mistakes of my past.. I want to continue to grow as a person and as your partner for life. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with J once and for all.

Am I willing to work reconciliation? Absolutely, 100% if you are willing to do the work with me.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from J and are willing to follow the steps needed to make sure you have completely cut off all contact then I am more than willing to talk about our future. For reconciliation to happen I would need the following from you before making a commitment to reconcile:

A sincere, remorseful apology
Why you think this happened (name the problem or main emotional needs I wasn�t meeting)
A detailed recovery plan for our marriage (what it is and how YOU plan to implement it)
Proof that you have cut off all contact.. I know you like your privacy...but letting me check cell phone records and emails for 6 mos. so that I can build my trust back.


I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each others emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend. I believe we can learn from our mistakes and grow from them. We can rebuild our love and become a family again. A great family and marriage!

With regards to me and my actions in the last year and half, I believe that I really did try to address your emotional needs, but you wouldn�t let me in the door. One of my favorite things to do for you is cook your favorite meals. I do that out of love for you, with no expectations. I really do miss you kissing me after a meal and telling me how good it was. I know something so small, really meant a lot to me and I feel like that was an emotional need I was happy to take care of for you. Other small things, like bringing you a newspaper because I know you love a good Sunday paper or bringing you shaved ice on a hot day, buying iced tea cause I know you like it, taking you to the foot spa with me, meeting you as soon as you get off the plane because we can wait to see you are among a list of things I do for you out of pure love, during the worst emotional storm anyone could withstand. As for the emotional needs I wasn�t meeting in the past, I sure tried to meet them as best as I could for you in order to save us.


I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing J.
When you have permanently severed contact with her I will be overjoyed to talk about our future. My love for you has never wavered. I loved you in the beginning and I love you even more now. I want to be able to rebuild our marriage into a new life where we meet each other's emotional needs. Where our actions and everything we do makes both of us both happy. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me, through sickness and health, for richer or poorer. I hope you realize how much I love talking with you and how much I miss your affection. I want you to be my best friend and lover.
My hopes are to someday bring our family back together. The process of getting us to that point is up to you. If your hopes are the same as mine it will show in your actions and commitment to your own personal recovery and healing.



From the bottom of my heart, I Love You.

I know it's long but I am still editing it. Taking out things that don't belong.

Oh yeah,that is way, way too long. I would cut that back to about 4 paragraphs. You have to remember your audience here. He is fogged out and is not going read alot of stuff to get the point. So keep it short and concise.

I'll work more on it tomorrow...this is like homework!

@Trista -

Do you really understand the intent of Plan B?

You are defeating the purpose of Plan B by having contact with him, Trista. He doesn't have to like your friends. They're not playing the role of 'friend' to your WH. They are there to filter out the drama that your H will inevitably bring to the table by having contact with you.

If you are in contact you are not in Plan B. I've been following your thread and I thought you were heading down the right path - now I'm worried about you.

Yes, it's pretty much like telling him it's over and moving on with my life without him. If he decides he wants the marriage, then he has a piece of paper telling him what it would take to reconcile with me. Am I right?

Don't be worried, I am still on the right track...I am just learning all there is to know about Plan B. Could I use his mother as an IM? Or should I leave her out of it. I thought that would be a good idea since she understands what I am going through with him, I know she would do it for me.

Not a good idea.
You need someone who understands MB Plan B.
You need someone who can read messages without being a mother to anyone.

Yes, try to find someone else...it's not a good plan to use family, IMHO.

Do you have a friend, preferably one your H also likes, who would be willing to read up on what an IM should do?

Mr. W linked the IM training school thread, you need someone who would read that and implement it.

One more question before I go off to work...

I have been thinking about my Exposure letter/email all morning. Such as WHO I would send it to, and then WHAT I would say.

My question is, is it REALLY a good time to expose to her friends/family when he is ready to POP at anytime anyway? He is already questioning himself, even before PLAN B letter. Knowing my H, once OW tells him what I have done, that will put him in the mindset that I am a troublemaker and then that will make up his mind for him...he will want to be 100% with her..not the troublemaker.

I'm only ASKING you all. Doesn't mean I'm not going to do it. I would like some serious thoughts on this from you all.

I think in the beginning it would have worked, not almost 2 years later?? Or...do you really think it will work.

I have been informed by MIL that HER family thinks she is a SAINT. They already know that she dates married men, and has broken up other families...so it's not new news to them. I could just look like some bitter wife getting desperate cause my man is leaving me. I don't want it to look like that. She has a ton of money and in her adult childrens minds, she gets what she wants and no one says BOO about it or they'll be written out of the million dollar will.
I heard her middle son is a real JERK about the little town my MIL lives in with him and she said he thinks his SHXX don't stink...that is not someone I want to be writing an exposure letter to. He is gonna go, "ya, so what"......

My MIL doesn't think I should say anything to her family because it will only backfire on me.

Nope!

The basis of MB is that we like to be with people that make us feel good and we don't like to be around people that make us feel bad. Now these feelings for other people are in a $LB. A BS's $LB for the WS is being depleted during an A. Plan B is to remove you from the drama of the A. This will reduce depletion of your $LB. Because of his cake-eating you have been abused. Plan B will help you work on you, to be able to get to a healthier and stronger person. This will make it easier for you to be able to choose wither you want to stay in the marriage or move on. At some point if the A doesn't stop you will never want to R and you will want a D.

Plan B removes you from meeting his ENs. The only other person that he will be able to go to then is the POSOW. This will cause great dissatisfaction with his Affair. POSOW is incapable of meeting his ENs. You've already provided an example of this already happening.

The requirements of Plan B Letter spells out the specific things that WS has to do in order for you to even consider working on R. By him meeting the requirements of your Plan B it will show you his sincerity in wanting to commit to R. By you having to deal with FRs, your requirements must be very high. If they are too low then you will be in a FR. This can be a vicious cycle. Also this will only be enabling his cake-eater behavior.
So Plan B is for you to protect yourself from $LB withdrawals. Work on making yourself a healthier and stronger person. Requirements in place in order for WS to show his sincerity for R.

Will sending Exposure letter to POSOW family put pressure on the A?

I've read most of this thread and this is making me a little crazy...those who cannot act QUICKLY and ASSUREDLY in exposure and Plan B often don't save their marriages.

Who gives a rat's *ss if he's mad that you expose??? YOU are the one who should be FURIOUS! The A has gone on this long because he knows you have been a wimp thus far (sorry if that's hurtful) and there are no real repurcussions. EXPOSE already! My husband's affair died the DAY I EXPOSED and it had been going on a year.

Please just EXPOSE. Your situation is no different than anyone else's ~ affairs are all the same.


QUITE ANALYZING what other's "might" think of you. Who CARES? These are obviously immoral folks and you can hold your head high and stand up for what is RIGHT and save your M or you can be worried that they are going to think you are "desperate". Seriously? This is keeping you up at nights?

PLEASE quit asking us if this is going to work...you will not get anyone who says "yeah, never mind ~ your sitch is different , it might not work". You have how many posts on this thread TELLING you it's your only shot. How many more times are you going to ask us if we think it's going to work?

How many marriages has your MIL saved?

That's what I was thinking too.

It's normal to be fearful of something that you don't understand. We've all been there. We are also all on the other side of this telling you what you need to do.

I have been around here for more than a year and I have NEVER seen ONE poster who exposed say that they regret it. There are TONNES who didn't expose, or exposed too late and regretted THAT decision. Which one would you rather be?

This is a quick look through. Way too much information and very repetitive. Keep it short to the heart and business at hand.

Stop telling MIL about exposure. Just do it. Who cares what their reactions are?

Do you think that your WH is interested in this crpyt keeper because she is wealthy? Is money and status important to him. Has she always been a cougar?

Now is the PERFECT time to expose the affair to her friends and family. It will cause great pressure in the affair at a time when it seems to be on crumbling legs.


Nope, it won't backfire. It will cause conflict and embarrassment for the affairees. It will force her to explain herself to others. Sure, there will always be those who will BLAME YOU, the victim, but the opinions of such crapwits are meaningless. Who cares what they think?

Another benefit is that the OW will attack YOU to your WS, which will make him defensive. The affair is already on the ropes so this will further harm it.

Hope's editing is very good. I would use the edited version for sure. It says it all and it can sink into the wayward skull better during the darkness of you not being there for him anymore in plan B.

Trista - you will NEVER be able to recover if he keeps his job. I promise that. You cannot recover on the weekends.

If he isn't willing to change jobs, then you should NOT accept him back. IMHO that should be one of your requirements. You may not have to list it, it could be subsumed in the overall 'plan to recover marriage' but it should be a boundary YOU set for your recovery.

The marriage you had is dead. You cannot go back to it.

You would need a new marriage.

Trista,

Stay strong and get ready to fight! You will win this and I know that your WH is quite conflicted so now is the time to strike! Do not be afraid to do whatever is needed to save your family. Trust me, I was once a very sweet and timid woman who never thought she could pull off an exposure. And EXPOSE I did!

Definitely send the letter and x out the areas you were told to leave out. YOU did not have the affair, HE and "GranHo" had the affair.

Do not accept his blame for anything. Definitely EXPOSE to the OW's geriatric friends and her family and anybody she knows! Even her minister or priest too! Anybody and everybody she knows.

Geez. If it were me, along with the letter, I'd send GranHo the letter (the copy that goes to the ow), along with some denturecream and a large bag of depends because I'd let her know that the world will know of her sordid creepy affair, that she'll freak out so bad her dang teeth will fall out and she'll lose control of her bowels.

Hell, I did that to the 33 year old "monkeyho" (my nickname for the blatant ow I dealt with) and that happened to her at 33 after I got done with her. I think she still hears my name (she knows some friends of my friends) and she probably has to make a run for the toilet out of sheer fear!

I'd also address that exposure letter to "Grandma OW's name". I'd also let the creature know that your kids DO NOT NEED ANOTHER grandmother, as they already have one (or more) in real life, and that she could not possibly expect to be in your league. This woman, this ow, sounds very stupid and blatant and that she doesn't care who she shows her vile cheating to. I'd make sure her friends on Facebook know that she's a geriatric homewrecker.

Maybe somebody should suggest to her she go to live in one of those crazy World Golf Resort Villas in Florida. Ya'll know the ones, the place where there is the highest rate of STD's in the country right now. (google it!)There's plenty of dudes she would dig that are around her era. Anybody ever see "Sunset Daze" reality tv show?


Do not stop down from this. Send the letter, and expose (do a nuclear obliteration exposure) via Facebook, and blow the lid off of this affair. It will cause so much trouble, the ol ho will be slowly creaking around trying to put out fires. I guarantee you, if her family knows granny is boinking a married man, and FATHER too, they will not welcome him into the fold.

So I just got home from work and I am catching up, but I found the PERFECT IM today. She is a single woman who I have been watching her little boy off and on for since he was newborn. She brought him in today for a haircut. She is a good friend of our family and H is friends with her as well. I told her about what was going on (she kind of knew already but I updated her), then I asked her if she would be willing to be the IM for me and she said yes.

yippee!! Trista, she will need to agree to remain completely neutral and to pass on ONLY pertinent information about finances and child visitation IN HER OWN WORDS. She can't pass on any fogbabble or complaints. Does she understand Plan B?

And if your H wants to come back, she will have to determine his sincerity and make sure he is willing to comply with your conditions. Will she do that?

Here is a thread about the job of an IM: here

Awesome. Remember...she is NOT a mediator attempting to negotiate the recovery of your marriage. She IS a filter allowing you to remain dark as much as possible such that your husband gets the full effect of life without you AND you protect your lovebank from further withdrawals AND you begin your preparation for a life beyond/after your husband should he submit to your stated boundaries for reconciliation.

If your "friend" has questions...have her post them.


Great to see Vibrissa, Hope, Peachy and others jumping in with MelodyLane. You've really got the MB all-stars helping you.

Mr. W

Exposure letter rough draft:

Dear GranHo's friends and family:

Please forgive the intrusion, but I am writing to you today to inform friends and family of Granny Ho's ongoing affair with my WH.

My intent is only to inform in hopes that friends and family do not condone this sort of behavior. I love my WH and have for 18 years of my life with him. We have 2 beautiful daughters who are heartbroken over this affair. WH has chosen to go back and forth between Granny Ho and myself for almost 2 years now. WH was not available nor single at the time Granny Ho met him, and chose to persue WH in spite of knowing full details of myself and children in the mix. WH and I have tried several times to reunite, but Granny Ho continues to persue even when she knew we were trying to reunite. WH is no angel in this affair, so I am not fully throwing the blame on Granny Ho, as we all know it "takes two to tango."

What else should I put?? How to end it?
What to take out??

thanks all!!

[quote=TristaB]Exposure letter rough draft:

Dear GranHo's friends and family:

Please forgive the intrusion, but I am writing to you today to inform friends and family of Granny Ho's ongoing affair with my WH, Joe Blow, and to ask for your help. [put his full name]

I have been married to Joe for 18 years and we have 2 beautiful daughters, aged 4 and 7. The affair has been taking place now for 2 years and I would be happy to provide evidence to anyone who asks. We are all heartbroken about this affair as this threatens to break up our family if it doesn't stop.

Since you are a friend or family of GrannyHo, I am asking that you use your influence to persuade GH to leave my husband alone. There is no future in her affair with my husband because she will be eternally hated by my in-laws and our children for breaking up their family. GH is no respector of marriage, so I would warn you to watch your marriage around her too.

For follow up questions, please feel free to call or email me at XXX@XXX.com

I took this out completely because it is giving the impression that he has been available or single in the past 10 years. He has not. He has been married to you.

Granny HO hahahahahaha love it.

I like that too!

"GranHo"

I have this vision of 1925 era lingerie, and a glass of brandy.

Sorry its funny, I am probably triggering Trista, but I am a BS too and you have to keep your sense of humour or you're dead.

My vision was something A LOT different than that Reynolds. It wasn't pretty I'll tell you that.

Mine either. This GranHo is only 2 years older than my mom and I believe Trista's WH is the same age as my H (or close to it)...BLECH.

Ya, I finally came face to face with her at the airport...When I saw her, I thought to myself about H, "you are truly mental". She has had some serious plastic surgery, but it just disguises what is really under all that plastic. He says that she is beautiful and looks like Linda Evans (from Dynasty), not even close! Wow...I think if WH ever comes out of the fog he is really going to be embarrassed by all these pictures of them together.

Let's not diss OW cause of her age.
I'd like to think that when I am that age....I'll be just as cool as I am now.

Let's just diss her cause she is a homewrecker....K?!

Trust me, when he de-fogs he will be shocked at what he thought of her (both personality AND looks) during the A.

Trust me, trust me, trust me.

Aw Reading, you are fabulous! And I have one woman I know who is my age (ahem...41) and is a grandma too. So I could almost (coughing and sputtering as I type this) have been one too.

You are a goddess! Age is irrelevant when you ARE A GODDESS!

Trista, btw, when I think of your GranHo, my evil and goofy mind conjures up images of something like this.

Nora Desmond-ish washed up lady from "Sunset Boulevard".

Hittin' on a younger dude. Drama Queen and living in her past.



Seriously. If I were to sent the no contact letter, I WOULD absolutely address it to "Grandma OW First name, OW Last Name". I'd let her know you aren't taking her geritol anymore!

Yup...I like passive aggressively going after affairee insecurities because they are so ripe for the picking. Waywards behave like teenagers. Even the most obvious swipes at their insecurities somehow still hit their mark.

I'd suggest a dig at her money...as in, "the affair has been going on for over 2 years now and my husband just can't seem to give up the, cough, money (it ain't her looks...that's why he keeps running back to me)"

Another bonus why that may work in an exposure letter is that she has kids that want their inheritance. The last thing they want is a money grubbing YOUNGER man sniffing around their mother/aunt/cousin/sister/daughter...etc.

Mr. W

Good point Mr. W! The kids don't want a male version of anna nicole smith going after their inheritances.

I'd center on that too.

I may not be the sweetest former betrayed wife around here, but I can tell you, the xow in our case, monkeyho, ow number 1, got remarried last year to an old dude (rich and she broke up that marriage) and she REFUSED to announce her wedding in the papers, does not use facebook, and has her address and phone numbers unlisted, and it's because of all the

EXPOSURES

she has had to endure from me, and from other betrayed wives in Memphis. I say Trista should expose like mad, hit the GranHo where it hurts most (her age, looks, and center on the kids' inheritance when exposing to the kids).

Heck, I'd even post on my facebook page a photo of them, and I'd picasa and "edit" a bit more HER photo...making her look a bit less, pretty, if you will. Hit the insecure elderly cougar...no make that a sabre tooth tiger (yea, cause they are EXTINCT now) right where it hurts!

I are bad.

Vewy Vewy bad.

I am a grandma too!! actually he calls me nana, but he is 18 mos and adorable...just another thing WH is going to miss out on and will have NO access to him at all nor my oldest daughter, who is from another marriage. She wants nothing to do with him while he is in his affair fog. Somehow part of me is almost sad for him, only because he truly does not know all he is giving up. I know, I know...don't be sad for him...but you know what I mean. Sad because he is so messed up, he can't see it. It truly is like he is on drugs or an alcoholic.

OMG, this looks just like them, only picture her with blonde hair, big hoop hooker earrings (ya she's trying to look 32) tons of makeup and bling, and wears leopard and zebra print stuff all the time. She would fit in really well at Leisure World cause I am not kidding you, that is how she dresses.

Reading, the only reason we are dogging her age is because it just looks ridiculous with her and a 42 year old man, with PDA all over the place. My H absolutely hates PDA...yet he is doing it with her. PUKE!

I heard through the grapevine, that the adult children and their spouses were not happy with OW bringing WH to their annual summer retreat at the Lake House. Seems she has a different man that she brings every year, and always 20+ years her junior.

Trista, you've been getting some AWESOME advice from some of the best around here. I love that you're finally going to go to a real Plan B. End. of. drama. Be forewarned, that it's not only going to affect him, but you as well. Suddenly, you won't have all this drama in your life and you may start finding small reasons to break Plan B. Don't do it. It will set you back to zero on the clock. Come here and post. Yell, scream, rant, laugh, cry... we'll be here for you and help you walk through it.

I have great hopes for your situation because the odds of this OW becoming a permanent fixture are close to zero.

Your kiddos are going to be affected by all of this too. They need a stable sane parent right now. If your WH comes around, it will take a long time for WH to restore his relationship with them and this is something that they will never forget.

Not only will your WH's behavior affect the kids, but so will yours. It will color their relationships for the rest of their lives. Show them a mom that is looking out for the whole family. Even though WH is insane right now, let them know that you are fighting for their family.

As for support, remember the cell phone commercial where the guy walks around and there's a whole crowd of people with him wherever he goes? That's us. We're here for you with open ears and even a hug when you need it.

What grapevine? This just reminded me of something else to warn you about. People will want to tell you things about WH during Plan B. This is a type of indirect contact. Your mantra to those "helpful" people should be that you appreciate their concern but for the next little while, you really don't want to hear anything about WH.

Close all the gaps and cut all the grapevines.

Make sure you mention that you are not nor have you ever been in the "process of divorce" (whatever that means). There is NO paperwork, no agreement and no plans to that end.

Oh, ick. Just...ick.

We have to be careful about giving false hope...the odds might be close to zero...at some point. However, before they reach zero...it might take years. The A can go on and on, even on plan B. Plan B odds to work to restore the M are very low. Dr. H himself says that once separation happens chances to R the M are very slim...."because out of sight, out of mind" his words.

Plan B is for you. Yes definately cut the grapevine and to all the people who want to tell you about WH say firmly but politely: I am going to stop you right there...I am not interested about what my WH is doing these days. But thank you for your concern.

blessing

Do you think your WH is more interested in the financial aspect then the crypt keeper herself?

I would like to think that there is always hope, that somehow all waywards will snap out of it. I understand Plan B is for you and remove yourself from the drama of the affair, but the slim odds of your spouse coming back makes me sad.

I don't think he says "very low" or "very slim"...I went through Plan B and we are now in a fantastic recovery. There are others here who have had the same experience.

Unfortunately Dr. H is not very optimistic when it comes to spouses being separated and the WS is in an active A. He said that many time in his MB radio and also on the literature.
Yes, there are people who recover after a plan B and it is usually within a certain time frame (6 months maybe a year), but the odds are not very good.
Being realistic is the best way to personal recovery. Hope is just another trap for a future with lots of pain.
blessing

I took the following from the MB website, this is what Dr. H has to say about plan B
In other words, there odds are not so good.
And Dr H stresses this over and over again on the MB radio,,,that the end of the A does not mean M recovery. The WS can easily keep being wayward without showing any sign of repentance

Ditto in another post.

And as we all know we get burned out easily on plan A and very few BS are able to keep a leveled head and their sanity. So some times the last memory we leave the WS is not a very good one...
But of course there are some success stories and many of them are on this forum
Blessing

Well.......following plan A and then plan B are the best chance for recovering marriages.
The plans allow for a betrayed spouse to show their good stuff and then to go dark to move on without adding resentment fuel to the future. The best plans to follow for so very many, many, many reasons.

At least these are solid plans and we can't guarantee they will work but it gives her a much better direction than what she was doing before putting up with all the cake eating.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Time to stop the insanity.

The grapevine is my MIL, who has worked with OW in the past, and ironically same age as OW. She knows OW's family pretty well (but not enough to be friends with any of them). Small town where OW is from and where most of her family resides.

Could be...he has always been impressed by others who have alot of money...if he is choosing that over his family then he belongs with her.

I do understand the odds, but honestly...this is last ditch effort and I really am okay if he never comes back. When I laid down to sleep last night, I was overcome with an emotion that feels a lot like hatred toward him. I know that is probably not good. As he was crying to me the other night, he said he couldn't live with himself if I ended up hating him. As for "out of site, out of mind"...it makes my H crazy NOT to be able to see me, so lets just say with him it's "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

I plan on giving him the letter on either Sunday evening via email OR if he comes to town, I will give it to him Sunday night as he is leaving with a box of his clothing. I just noticed he has a ton of clothing hanging in the garage too that he probably never wears...How should I handle him getting that? I had thought about shipping it to his apartment in LA, but it's a ton of clothing...probably 50-60 shirts.

Before I give Plan B letter, should I tell him to take it out of here?

You will hate him, but eventually you'll reach the opposite of hate, which is indifference.

That's a wonderful place.

There should be an "addendum" to your PBL ~ this lists out the specifics of how PB is to be carried out ~ names your IM, states clearly that ALL communication needs to go through IM, how visitation will work, how finances will work, etc.

In the addendum you can put in there that his clothes will be packed in a box and left ________ for him to come and get ASAP. If he doesn't pick them up they will go to Goodwill by ________date.

Your PBL is a "love letter". Do not muck it up with this stuff. Put it in the addendum.

If possible I think it would be good to see him one more time ~ one last Plan A effort. I also think PBL should be in your own handwriting, with some of your perfume sprayed on it.

Can you get this to him somehow, even if he doesn't come into town?

Addendum on separate sheet of paper?

I think Plan B is going to be easy for him, he has avoided me like the plague since our last convo where he was crying. (Mon) night. I just find it so weird how he can't go 5 minutes without talking to OW, but can go DAYS without talking to me. I just honestly want to give up some days and just write out an "It's over" letter and there will NEVER be any chance for reconciliation, goodbye!

I think my case is extreme...I have a super hard-headed, arrogant, wants to be in control always, WH. I'm just venting here, don't worry...still going Plan B/dark and Exposure letter....just really really disliking this person he has become more and more. He even avoids his children, especially DD15...he avoids her more than the other because he knows or I should say, he feels how she feels about what he's doing.

One thing I do know, my girls are really bonding with me during this time. Even my little rebellious 14 year old has been very good lately, straight A's (well both really). I told her yesterday to do a chore, and she didn't even give me a fight like she normally does..she just did it. I noticed though that the 14 year old keeps questioning how I feel about her father. She wanted me to buy him something tonight at the store, not from her, but from me...and I said with no real emotion, just flat out.."no" and she looked at me and said "why, you don't like dad anymore?" I never know what to say anymore, so I just kind of ignored it and changed the subject.

That's all for tonight,,, just writing out some things on my mind. My stomach feels all tied in knots...talk to you all tomorrow. Still compiling my letters.

She doesn't know, does she? The 14 year old.

Tell her. Let her know what is going on. Let her know you need to protect yourself from his hurt.

Any communication regarding your WH personal items should be emailed to your WH by your IM.

Send the Plan B letter and let your IM contact your WH regarding his stuff that needs to be dealt with.

Unfortunately your love bank is very low, and that is understandable considering the amount of time your WH has been cake eating. This is destroying the love you have for your WH.

You have been like a cork bobbing in the sea with no direction. Look at it this way: you "think" in one hand and spit in the other, what will you get? You cannot read your WH's mind. Do not assume that you can. Do not let your fear define you. Do not underestimate the needs that you have been fulfilling for your WH or how much he will or will not miss that if you have no contact with him. You need a PLAN.

You have been given a lot of direction here, and have gotten the very best advice.

You are very close to Plan FU because your love bank is in the red because your WH has had his cake and eat it too for a very long time.

This is why people are suggesting that you give one last Plan A moment before Plan B.

Please follow Plan A and Plan B. I know it is scary, but MB principles really work. Plan A is not about relationship talk or pressuring your WH for all information. It is about showing your WH how GOOD you and the marriage can be (with no expectations) before you go to plan B. I know that the Harley's recommend a female BS Plan A no longer than a few weeks at most, and this cake eating has been going on for 2 years!

I think it would be in your best interest to schedule an appointment with the Harley's.

This way you will get the professional help you really need if you want to save your marriage. The Harley's have saved so many marriages and are worth the money that you will spend. I cannot tell you how much this will help you, only you can make that decision.

Investing $200 or so in counseling from MB is MUCH less expensive than a divorce.

Best wishes!

Yes, put all of the logistics in an addendum/separate letter.

Do you have your IM lined up? Has she read the IM Intermediary Training thread here? This is really important.

Oh yes she knows. Not sure if it was this forum or the other where I mentioned he has taken my 14 year old and and OW to the movies once. Actually it was supposed to be a father daughter movie (think it was Toy Story 3) and he didn't tell my daughter, and just picked up OW on the way to the movies.

The 2nd time daughter met OW was last summer, when we were fighting horribly over him and OW and he wanted to see his youngest daughter (cause older one would have nothing to do with him) and he took youngest over to OW's house to go swimming for the day.

I agree with you, all of you. I am definitely doing what I have discussed with you all. Where in the schedule of what's to come, should I implement the exposure emails...after Plan A and before Plan B? Or after Plan A and same day as Plan B?

And I think I know the answer to this one, but all of these Plans before Costa Rica trip? Costa Rica trip is March 22nd.

Also, WH sounds like he is undecided about Costa Rica trip because he knows it's the icing on the cake for all of us..me, his children, his family etc. I really think the silence that is going on between us right now, is his trying to make some decisions about his life and OW.

Exposure happens during Plan A. If all is so wonderful with OW why wouldn't your WH want everyone to know? You expose and continue with Plan A until you have your ducks lined up for Plan B.

Ideally exposure should be all at once, as soon as possible. You have waited a long time, and exposure has trickled out. You should expose to OW family/friends all at once. Not after you go to Plan B.

All waywards get mad. You just remain calm and offer him a cookie.

Once again I urge you to make an appointment for MB counseling. This way you will have professional help on exactly what you need to do, and when you need to do it. It will be worth every penny.

Trista --

I would sit your girls down and explain to them your plan.
Tell them that you have done your best to negotiate with their dad to end his affair and come home. That you love him and want him to come home.
But its gone on too long, and has become too painful. You are going to cease communication with him. He is still welcome to contact the girls to arrange spending time with them. And they are free to contact him as they want to. But you would appreciate not hearing about his life -- and you hope that they will refrain from telling WH about yours.
Tell them that by removing yourself from this triangle, you hope that WH will come to realize that he wants the marriage and the family intact.
You have written WH a letter explaining all this -- and what will be required of him if he wants reconciliation. You can't go back to the way things have been for the last 2 years. You need to be safe in the marriage and assured that this will not happen again.
Tell your girls that you love them, and need their support.

@Trista -

It doesn't matter if he is making decisions about the marriage right now. You have a plan that specifies requirements for you to stay in the marriage. He has to meet them. His decision has to be made not to play you once again, but to actually step up and meet your requirements. Don't buy his BS when he says he wants to work on the marriage. You have been down that road. It doesn't work.

WS must meet Plan B requirements.

In this case, because Plan A/Plan Doormat has gone on so long, I believe it's been suggested that she expose immediately after going into Plan B (like that same day).

DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM when he begins throwing his hissy fit. Let him and the OW LB the heck out of each other. You will be protected from their temper tantrums with Plan B.

"I believe it's been suggested that she expose immediately after going into Plan B (like that same day)".

Okay, I missed that. Was just informing what the norm is for exposure.

Still recommend professional counseling with Harley's.

She would want to finish her exposures AFTER she goes dark so she doesn't have to listen to the explosion.

And Trista, I would add a line in the letter that your children are NOT to be exposed to his affair partner. Tell your DD that if the OW shows up, she is to call you to come get her. The OW is a scumbag and an unfit adult.

We have had many BS' here get this put into their separation/divorce papers.

Looks like I will be implementing Plan B letter via email tonight. I was going to do it Mon/Tues...but I was messing with my cell phone last night trying to figure out how to block it. Well I accidentally blocked my DD15's cell as well as mine from WH's phone number. He tried to call her this morning and found out he was blocked, so he must have called her from another number to talk to her. He asked her if I had blocked him from our phones.

So then she asked me and I told her, I was only trying to block just my number. But because she is on the same plan it must have blocked hers too. I have since fixed that, now only mine is blocked.

I decided to go ahead and email him and ask him what address should I forward his mail to. It seems only inevitable that the Plan B letter should follow that up.

On Exposure letter:

I am not using FB to send out the messages. I have a list of emails that I had copied from an email OW had sent WH where she cc'd her entire family on it.

Should I make up an alternate email address, say through gmail or yahoo?

As soon as I send the emails out, should I shut down that email account or leave it open for responses?

Do I use my name anywhere in that email?

What email address do you think would be good to use? Something very neutral, nothing like betrayed at gmail...or antigrannyho at gmail,

Let me know, it's in the works!

I would not set up an alternate email addy, you have nothing to hide. If anyone responds nastily, I would either respond VERY graciously ONE TIME ONLY, or ignore it.

Yes, use your name, you have nothing to hide. Let them know you are a REAL person with a real name. Add your last name too so they see you are still married.

If you have a nice family pic with all of you in it, I would consider attaching that.

Trista, use your full name and your H's full name on the exposure letter. I would set up a new gmail account and KEEP it open so you can read the responses. Some folks will ask for more information and you should be prepared to answer them.

You can expect some trashtalk. Don't let it bother you! Anyone who defends this affair is a crapwit whose opinion does not matter. Just delete any of those.

Update on yesterday (Sat 19th):

Plan B is still in the works. I have been working on the letter every day since I posted it here. I have edited it and added new things. I have taken out what was suggested as being too much and stopped apologizing in the letter.

I think I am jumping the gun though by trying to "ask" him things..without telling him how it's going to be in the PBL. When I asked him via email yesterday morning where he would like his mail forwarded to, he did not even respond to me. Fast forward to about 3 hours after I sent that email, I get a text from him asking if I am going to my DD15's cheer competition that day and if I had the camera (his camera) with me. I thought I had blocked both phone calls and texts, but apparently the texting still got through. I only replied "yes." Then he asked me if I was picking DD14 up from babysitting over at her older sisters house. I did not reply to that one.

About an hour after I didn't reply back to him, he walked into my hair salon with a ticked off look on his face. He asked me the same questions over again. I was not being "bxxchy in any way to him" (which later I will tell you what he said about that) I told him that I was going to the cheer meet, that I did have the camera with me and asked him if he wanted it now, and that NO, I had no plans to pick up DD14 from babysitting to take her with me as I didn't know what time I would get out of work. So WH took it upon himself to go get DD14 from babysitting, and to take her and my grandson with HIM to the cheer meet. They had PLENTY of time to get there.

Once I got off work, I headed over to the cheer meet. I was running late...and their cheer team had a set time to perform of 1:40. I called DD14 on my way over to ask the location again of the meet. I was a little surprised that WH and DD14 were not even there yet, but were instead eating at McDonalds. The time was like 1:15. It was raining cats and dogs here yesterday, and I did not make it in time to see her perform. When I walked into the auditorium, WH and DD were standing outside lobby area and had missed it also.

To make this long story short, I got blamed for his missing DD15 perform! I had no control over what he did or how he executed picking up the other daughter and getting his butt over there. And why stop at McDonalds if you were so concerned about being there on time? He told me that the ONLY reason he came into town was JUST to see DD15 perform. I said well then you should have JUST went to the cheer place and not bothered with anything else. I was fuming!

So you all are probably wondering why I am even telling you about this...it leads up to my trying to implement PLB and not sure if I can make it stick. This man is hard headed, arrogant,controlling and is really good at turning everything on me and blaming me. PLB worries me because it is going to make him so mad, he will pull everything out from under me, financially speaking. I am now thinking that I probably will have to move out in order to get PLB to work like I want it to.

He was angry already yesterday before he even said two words to me. I believe OW is giving him grief already, because he mentioned something about ALL women being crazy. I did ask him to elaborate on "what's going on" and he said that she has been texting him all day "where are you???" "why aren't you answering my texts" etc. So the LB'ing is going on between them two.

Then he had the nerve to ask me, "WHY" my DD14 went to babysit at her sisters house, and why couldn't my DD22 bring the baby to our house? He actually accused me of "sneaking around" and getting rid of DD14 so that I could go out!!! He said "I don't know what all the secrets are about" Is this man delusional or what? I was laughing to myself. I didn't deliberately "get rid" of my DD14 so I could "go out"...LOL. My oldest daughter and my youngest daughter set up a babysitting deal, where my oldest came to pick up youngest and brought her to her house overnight so that in the morning, oldest could get ready for work and leave. I didn't know DD14 was my babysitter too! He still thinks that I had youngest leave, so I could go paint the town. Ironic since the 15 yo was home all night and could tell him I didn't go anywhere. But it doesn't matter! It's just pure manipulation and control coming out, and PBL needs to be sent today!

Now don't get me wrong, don't want anyone here worrying about my not following through with things. I am getting ducks in a row here. This is a very manipulative man and I need to play my cards right. I can't just throw PBL out there, and not make sure that I have everything ready to go. The house not being in my name worries me. Here all along I thought that he would continue to keep financial arrangements as they are so long as he feels like he isn't being bothered and can have fling with OW. My trying to keep him away from me, is worse than I thought. I thought it would be easy for him. We talked a little bit last night about if he was going to get a place. I didn't mention any PB things. I was just curious why he had to come see kids in our home, and wants to "hang out"...someone else mentioned in one of their posts...this is a home, not a hotel..and you're not just gonna run back and forth between OW's house and mine. He has not "let go" that this isn't still his home.

I think with OW pressuring his whereabouts already, that he really dislikes being in her home 24/7 on the weekends and using my home as his outlet away from her. When I questioned WHY he feels the need to be in our home to see his children, he got tears in his eyes and said "where else am I gonna take them when I'm in town"...I told him I didn't know, that it was his problem. He then got very upset with me and wanted to know why I was being such a "BxxCH!" This is where it got a little worrisome for me, I know what is coming with PB. He says "then why am I paying for everything in this house, if I can't come see my kids and spend time with them in my house!" He says "basically you're telling me FU, you can't come into the house. Well what if I told you FU, I'm not paying for anything in the house anymore, including the mortgage." I just said, "well then I guess I will have to go get an apartment" He dropped the subject after that. He believes I am turning my kids against him. I said "No, you are turning your kids against you" Blame is being thrown my way heavily.

I don't think he will have a problem not contacting me via email, text, or phone. What I do think he will have a problem with, is not being able to spend time with his kids in the house that HE pays for and has ONLY his name on it. Suggestions at this point? I was hoping to try to get my name on the house, but at this point...don't think I can. This is a community property state, and I think that means that anything owned prior to marriage does not get split, and remains sole property of the person whose name it's in.

Once again ~ YOUR SITCH/WH IS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER WH. Go back and read my threads from 4 years ago...ALL WSs ARE THE SAME.

I'm not trying to upset you but honestly...this is getting a little old. You are WAY PAST PB TIME!


Yes we are ~ are you trying to convince us or yourself that he's "different"? We all know he is not.



Yes you can. He cannot MAKE you have contact with him. If he gets through your PB, that is YOUR fault, not his. You have 100% control over you and your life. Avoid him at all costs, take friends/family members to protect you when you are at children's functions, etc.


This is criteria to be a WS. He's no different than any other WS.


Again, why the h*ll are YOU worried about HIM being mad? For crying out loud, aren't you furious that he's having an affair, banging a trashy OW and disrespecting you in this way??? WHO GIVES A RAT'S *SS IF HE'S MAD?



Let him try, then you will immediately get a lawyer and have it put into writing that he must continue his financial obligations. HE is the one having an A and having abandoned his family, remember? You have done nothing wrong.


Huge mistake. Do not move out. Go into your PB as we've been talking about for what ~ a week now? You could be safe in PB by now but you are making tons of excuses. Quit analyzing this and thinking he's "different". He's not.

For the love of God, go into PB TODAY, will you?

All that drama from yesterday could have been avoided if you were in PB like you should have been. Some people (women especially) seem to thrive on their WSs drama. Please tell me you are not one of them.

There is no good reason why you are not in a pitch black PB right now. None, unless you thrive on the drama.

P.S. from the time I found out we had been in a FR (the A continued for almost a year from the time I found out, unbeknownst to me), I was in a pitch black PB in 48 hours from the time I found out and at the time we had 4 young children that I was also dealing with. My Plan B was not broken because *I* was in control at that point and I made sure it wasn't broken.

There is no good reason why it's taken you this long to get into Plan B. NONE.

<P.S. call a locksmith out TODAY and have them change the locks on your house so that your WH can't get in. I called them out at 9 pm on a Saturday night, they can make emergency calls. If you don't do this and he gets in, you will only have yourself to blame.>

married forever, do you have a link to your thread? I would like to read it.

Plan B today! I promise.

Of course he will have a problem with that!! But that is a consequence of abandoning your family for an affair. Don't protect him from the consequences of his affair. You do so at your expense and the expense of your children. Plan B is supposed to give him a taste of what it will be like to get divorced. Would you allow him to stay in your home if you are divorced? Of course not. That is ridiculous.

Allowing him in your house like PROPS UP THE AFFAIR because it allows him to feel like he hasn't really abandoned his family and gives him a FIX of you.

You should change the locks and keep him out. Who cares if he pays the mortgage? That doesn't mean he can come in.

THE BEST THING for your husband, your marriage and your kids is for your H to experience what all other divorced dads experience, and that is to pick up his kids in the drive way and take them to the mall, dinner, etc, and be a part time dad. Don't protect him from the consequences of his choices. You are just making it WORSE for all involved by doing that.

You are standing in front of a fabulous opportunity to kill this affair if you will just take it. You are unwittingly propping up this affair and don't seem to realize it.

If you do this right, Trista, I predict you will have a marriage back. No guarantees, but I see so many signs here that this affair is on its last legs and so many signs that your enabling is just propping it up.

Stop enabling this affair, Trista. Stand up for your marriage and stop operating on fear and emotions. Stick to the plan and do not let him through.

Go dark as night and make a plan to stop him from getting through. If you think he will come to the beauty shop next weekend, then take the weekend off and make plans to be elsewhere. Change your locks, and think of any possible way he could get through. Block him at every turn and don't let it happen.

Trista, do you have an IM in place?

Yes I do...I sent her the information about how to be an IM and haven't heard back from her. I do trust her and I know for sure she would do this for me. I will contact her again and make sure she got the IM information.

Tell her she can email me if she runs into trouble. This job is very easy if you do it right and I would be willing to help her. If you want to do that, please email the moderators and they will give you my email address.

What will happen when you go into Plan B is your H will go nuts trying to get through. She has to be a broken record with him and tell him that nothing gets through other than pertinent information about finances and child visitation unless he: a) ends the affair and b) moves home so he home every night and c) commits to a program of recovery.

He will become FURIOUS to realize he has lost control of you.

Click on my name, then find my posts from early March 2007. That is when I went into Plan B.

I actually don't talk a lot about it here because I knew my H was reading my posts and since I was in PB, he was to know nothing about me.

Before that you can see what it was like in a FR (false recovery). You can read my H's posts during that time as well, he is MFsFWH.

You will see you are no different than anyone dealing with an A.

Thank you MF...

I think I need to reveal something to you guys...maybe you will understand why I have been so hesitant with things. This is an 18 year common-law marriage. Not recognized in the state I live in. I know I should have mentioned this, I was afraid that I would be turned away for not being legally married. It was still a marriage to me, just because I didn't have the piece of paper stating so. I have already been married and divorced prior and we didn't talk about legally marrying..and because I had already been married I was in no rush to re-marry. So 18 years later.....I'm pretty much SOL.

For those of you who would still like to help put me in the right direction, I would still like your help.

Thanks for coming clean Trista. This is an important detail. I suggest that you try and get your hands on the book, "Renters, Buyers, and Freeloaders" by Dr. Harley. 18 years is a long time to be together, and the fact that you have children even complicates things further. But you already know all of this. This book may open your eyes to some things that you've never thought about before and prepare you for the future either with your SO or someone new.

I feel so bad for your kids and how this is going to effect them. Do they know mom and dad aren't married? Have you told them what's going on with your SO?

Once you get the financial stuff figured out (try and get something in writing if you can) then I still think you need to go Plan B.

If your SO does decide to come back, you should make marriage a condition of recovery. Otherwise, you'll just end up back here again.

If you choose NOT to pursue this relationship, then protect yourself financially the best you can under these circumstances and then go DARK, DARK, DARK.

((Trista))

Hi PM...thank you!! Oh absolutely 'real' marriage would be a condition of recovery.

To answer your questions...Yes, my girls are teenagers and have known since very little that mom and dad were not "married" but as they got older...because we lived like we were married, they never questioned it again.

I sent him a text yesterday letting him know I want to go ahead and get that letter written from him where he is going to state that I get to keep the house, and that he will continue to pay on it until it's paid off, which at that time...he will put the house in my name. I am also going to see an attorney about having it written up and filed within the court system so that I don't just have a notarized piece of paper. I want it to stand up in court if need be. Once I get all that from him, I am going to change the locks, change garage door opener code...etc. If I don't get that paper from him this week, then I will see the attorney the following week to have my own papers drawn up.

Good job Trista, you have to look after yourself right now.......it's all about the plan and the stages and patience it takes.......married or not you two are a couple....
Look after yourself and the kids, be the best you can be through this.......
jessi

Oh good grief...this was unfair to have allllll these posters posting to you without revealing the truth. You just "live together". You are "boyfriend and girlfriend".

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Sorry to be so flippant but why is the idea of marriage important to you NOW? He's been getting all the bennies of a M without being married and you want to fault him for it NOW?


This is akin to someone putting a doctor's coat on and saying "I know some medical stuff, I just don't have the piece of paper stating I'm a doctor.".

Marriage is a much bigger deal than a piece of paper. I hope you are seeing that now.

Trista, your "revelation" to this board makes more sense to me now. When I read the messaging between you and your BF, I was in SHOCK. I couldn't believe that a WIFE would be so flippant with her H and talk about saying ILY to his OW in bed after SF. I thought you had lost your marbles, now I understand better.

This also explains why NO ONE was mad about this "affair" because it really wasn't one.

I am bowing out now because I will no longer help someone who was dishonest to so many to gain something they thought they were entitled to. How do you expect your WBF to follow "rules" when you clearly don't when it serves your own purpose.

Good you came clean...Now get it right. I agree with the princess meg that marriage is a condition of recovery.

Now stop delaying about this PBL and SEND IT. You could have written a novel for all the time you have been working on this.

Now you understand how important the institution of M is and the legalities. I hate the term "common-law" meaning that your relationship is just that common. You deserve so much more.

Today begin to fix this.

REALLY?? You honestly believe that just because we didn't have a piece of paper that says we were married that I am hurting any less?? And how was I trying to gain anything from any of you, but help? This is exactly why I didn't say anything to anyone because you wouldn't get it. I don't consider him my BF. That is ridiculous. Domestic partner is a better word, and I'm sorry if you don't agree with that. That is not what I'm here for anyway. I'm sorry that just being married is the only way to get help here. Ya, go ahead and jump all over me, the person who needs direction...the person who has children who are hurting...the person who needs support even if it means via the internet.

Thanks a lot...

I see where I'm not welcome...wow.

goodbye..........

I feel your pain, Trista, I really do. I feel the pain for your children even more. They deserved parents who were married and committed to each other.

Unfortunately, you're going to have a lot of trouble getting much help from the state because you're not married. Exposure will also mean MUCH less to many people which limits your "stick" part of the carrot/stick relationship.


Maybe you don't consider him your BF, but it sounds like he DID consider him your BF. So will many others. Having been married and divorced, I would have expected you would know that marriage changes a relationship. A friend of mine was dating someone and cohabitating for 7 years, then got married--and their relationship changed dramatically.

Cohabitating is not the same as marriage.

I'm sorry you are hurting, and many of the MB principles may still apply. But you're going to have trouble getting traction against this "affair" because it's...well...it's an affair in spirit, but not in reality.

If you had been HONEST from the beginning there would have been more people trying to help you. I personally would not have been one, but that's just me.

I find it RIDICULOUS that only UNMARRIED people talk about how marriage is, "JUST a piece of paper." Poll anyone who is ACTUALLY married and see what their answer is.

Take a hard look at yourself and figure out WHY you were dishonest in the first place. You might actually learn something.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe that fornication is a sin? I do. And although I committed that sin before I was married, I ceased committing that sin once I became married. I have asked for forgiveness for that sin and have vowed to not repeat it in the future. Have you asked for forgiveness for that sin? Will you no longer be committing that sin in the future? Will you not fornicate with your BF until you two are married?

Well I am off to work..I am sitting here crying...Ya I really messed up my life didn't I? 18 years of of my life wasted and no direction.

I'm just going to end it...Nothing else I can do. Do the best I can, move out of the house...and hope that my children don't make the same stupid mistakes I have made.

I am going to ask the mods to delete my thread.
PrincessMeggy has my real email address...she has my permission to give it to anyone who would like to keep in touch with me to find out how this all ends up in the long run.

Thanks to those who didn't take swipes at me. I really am a super nice person IRL and maybe that is my problem, way too nice...and I never thought I was entitled to anything here but some direction.

Trista, I warned you that you would be hit with some 2x4s for withholding this information. Did you consider emailing Dr. Harley for some help with this? If I didn't know you, I would be upset too. Alot of the people who were helping you are dealing with pain themselves from adultery currently in their marriage.

I know you feel like you are married, but honestly, you're not. It's so sad that it has come to this. There's a reason people get married and I'm sorry you didn't get to experience that with the father of your children. It hurts that he cheated on you, yes, especially because of how much you have invested in each other lives and the fact that you have children together.

But I think you are wise to go completely dark and move on without him. Start living your life well and educate yourself on what makes a good marriage. What makes Trista the best person she can be (and that doesn't necessarily mean marriage.)

Maybe someday a man will come along who you will want to marry. I can't think of a better way than MB to prepare for that.

If your SO does happens to come back into your life, make some firm requirements starting with pre-marital counseling, and then marriage.

Get the book I suggested (Renters, Buyers and Freeloaders-- I think that's the order). It may open your eyes. I say stop the cycle right now. Admit to your children that you made some wrong choices. They already know their dad is wrong.

I hope you do get to experience a wonderful marriage someday. Then maybe you'll see the difference and how important that little piece of paper really is to those that mean it.

The name of the book is Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders ~ but you're close.

Trista, do not delete this thread. It's a good learning experience for everyone reading it. Marriage vows are IMPORTANT. It's a good lesson to learn. Please teach your children this. A marriage relationship is different and more special from any other kind of relationship out there.

Also, if the thread is not deleted, you can come back yourself and let us know of your outcome.

Trista, don't leave. Stay and READ. All of the articles. All of the links. Ask questions. We have a lot of important things we can tell you.

Trista,
I agree don't leave you came here for help, there are people willing to help you. Marital has some suggestions, ask the questions you have, and toughen up, take the 2x4's we all had to in the beginning.......
18 years is a long relationship.......don't give up..............
jessi

Trista,

I know I asked you these questions before, but please consider them. Think about them as you start and go through your Plan B (which I hope you're progressing to, because you need it desperately).

Why did you settle for what you did?

Your partner never married you, has spent only about 1/4 of these last 18 years living with you coming home for weekends and a week here and there, he maintains his own home in a separate state, has cheated on you multiple times. THIS is the man you accepted for yourself. THIS is the man you felt good enough to father your children. THIS is the man you cling to.

This man doesn't know how to be a husband and a father, every day in and out. He left you to basically raise his children as a virtual single parent.

He has the best of both worlds: a single life when he feels like it, and a family when he's in the mood for that.

Why do you cling to him?
He has NEVER in these 18 years put you or your family first.

You say you cannot ask for him to quit his job, he won't quit it. He needs to quit it, but I have a feeling if he comes back willing to change but refuses to quit his job, you'll take him back.

Because you are afraid he won't give up his job for you. So if he won't you will take him anyways. Despite the fact that you can never get what you want while he works that job.

Why is it you value yourself so little you will take his scraps?

I care about you Trista, I do. I understand your pain. I hope you can overcome it, I hope you can find the strength within yourself to separate from he who is causing you all this pain. I hope you can spend some time in thought, and pondering why it is you value yourself so little. I hope you can find that you ARE of worth, that you are worth so much more than this man has EVER given you - that way if another man comes along, or if he comes back, you won't settle for the scraps you've used to build your life these last 18 years.

Trista,
This is a learning process and you are learning the hard way BUT this is a place that will give you a straight path forward.

You got 2x4s, you got a reality check. It is time to pick yourself up and make a POSITIVE plan for yourself and your family.

I'm still here.

Still reading..
Seeing a counselor every other week...
WBF wants to be "friends" with me, and said that is what we have missed in this entire relationship of 18 years together. That somehow we have put our children first before us. I agree, it's always been about the kids and never about us. We were never friends...maybe that is why he never wanted marriage or to commit to me. Starting to believe that with him, friendship is one of his top emotional needs.

This WHOLE relationship needs a new beginning. It needs a marriage to happen. I'm throwing out everything that has been on my mind in the last few weeks since I found this forum. I really need to do a good Plan A with him..especially now since he's finally told me what was missing in our relationship.

I have thought about moving out of the house for at least 6 mos.

Thanks for the recommendation on the book, I will see if I can find it.

So how do you be friends with someone that you have lived with for 18 years and had children with? Such a stupid question but I really think that's where we need to start over.

I have the link for PlanA--someone posted it awhile back in my thread. Printing it out today. My Plan A is going to have to go on longer than a week or two...and be mixed with establishing a friendship with him.

I would like to see if I can edit the thread title...Who can I contact for that?

Sorry to everyone for misleading you about my situation. Somehow I thought that it was okay to be the Goldie and Kurt (Hawn and Russell) among our friends. As we watched almost every single one of our friends marry and divorce during mine and SO's relationship, I used to say to him "we are lasting longer than our friends marriages!" So much for that!

Plan A is all about showing you got the stuff he wants. Since he is involved with other contenders for his needs....you will have to put on your best game and also try to figure out his needs from your historical involvement with him.

Friendship per se is not one of the emotional needs. There are ten of them and five emotional needs are HIS more important five and five are your most important five.

The emotional needs being met makes the friendship better.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Wanted to answer your questions. (In the early years of relationship.) Honestly...no money, no family to help me, nowhere to go, no job, stay at home mom, career but no career because I left it all in another state when I moved here to be with the father of my child. He begged me not to leave him, told me he would marry me if I didn't leave him. Maybe I should have taken him up on that offer.



It all sounds crazy...but I didn't want to juggle my kids around to all the different states he would work in. I wanted to be the home base that he would come home to. It worked for us. I have worked since I was 15 years old. I was looking forward to being a stay at home mom and being taken care of, no bills, everything I ever wanted or the kids needed. I had a daughter from another marriage, whose father refused to pay child support. Even with court orders and jailtime, he wouldn't pay. BF/SO stepped in and became a father to my daughter in place of the deadbeat other dad. He did everything for us and for a child that wasn't his.

I loved him, he loved me. We never fought. He had issues with being married...said he saw his father leave his mother and an aunt and uncle that had a messy divorce and he didn't want any part of that. I wanted marriage...I made him buy me a ring and wore it all the time. I was young when I met him, I didn't know how to get a man to marry you, and probably at the time figured that he would eventually grow up and want to marry me. Marriage wasn't a priority to me with him. I did not want to go through another divorce. I thought if it made him happy being as we were, that my kids would have a happy home and not have to deal with parents who were not together. I didn't want to throw out ultimatums or force him to marry me, so I stayed away from the subject most of the time together.
Most likely extreme low self esteem. Or possible addiction to this man. It's my comfort zone, safety net...you name it.

My counselor says it's because as a 14 year old teenager, I watched my mother cheat on my father...then had my mother brainwash me into going to live with her away from my dad while she carried on her affair. My mother took me out one night with her and her OM, where her OM tried to buy me anything I wanted just so I would accept him. She used to leave my brother and I out in the car while she went in the bar to have a drink with her OM. Then my dad found a girlriend while my mom was still having her affair, yet my mother took me with her while we drove around neighborhoods and sat outside of my dads girlfriends house to see if my dad was there. I come from a really screwed up family of cheating...and to be only 14 years old and see that happen. Then FF 20 years after that and my dad cheats on my mom. My counselor says that my mind accepts it because of what happened to me as a kid.

My counselor also says that what happened to my BF/SO is what is causing him to do what he is doing. When he was 3 years old, his father used to beat up his mother and leave her to go cheat on her with lots of other women. He finally left her and his two sons indefinitely and never came back into their lives until my BF/SO was in his mid 20's. Counselor says my BF/SO is not dealing with his abandonment issues that his dad put upon him as a young child. He says that BF/SO needs counseling stat...or he will never change.

The counselor says that both of us coming from such screwed up families (he didn't say it like that) that we have such a dysfunctional of looking at marriage, cheating, etc. He says we are re-living our parents lives in some ways.

Hmm, okay that is interesting...and it makes sense. I have read the emotional needs thing before. I will re-read it. BF/SO keeps talking about how the OW is "his friend"...and she was there when he need that friendship.

One night he was telling me that, one day when he needed me, that I wasn't there for him (I was working)...he said that I would go hours in between texts...when all he wanted was someone to answer him back right away. Even if it was a quick "Hey, how's your day going?" Well I would be busy doing haircuts and wouldn't even look at my phone...so he would text OW and of course because she's 62 and a filthy rich, she had nothing better to do than answer his texts right away. She swooped in and snatched him up.

One of the biggest emotional needs the OW is meeting for him is conversation.
She always tells him how great he is and how important he is to her and how she is proud of them as a couple etc. She sits around all day and will talk to him about politics, sports, construction, his job, him...She strokes his ego pretty good. I have always been resistant to too much ego stroking...maybe that is where I went wrong.
I can't hold a conversation with him about sports or politics. I really could care less about politics. Sports are okay,,,but again...don't really know that much about sports. He says that we have NOTHING in common except our children. Yes, I have tried many times to have things in common with him. I have wanted him to take me and teach me to golf so that he had someone to golf with, instead he would say "I don't have the patience to teach you". Then I would say "Hey, let's go to a sports bar and watch the game and have a beer"...and he would reply "no, I'm not in the mood to have a beer, and we can watch the game at home...I don't want to hang out in a bar". Or I would say "Hey, let's go to a movie just you and I"...he would say "Oh but we can't leave little DD14 home alone, let's take her with".

So I have tried having a friendship with him based on some things I thought he would like to do and he shut me down. Yet, guess who he goes to sports bars to have a beer and watch the game with now.

We talked some last night, and I brought these things up and tried to point out how he never wanted to do those things with me alone...yet OW gets him all to herself without children to bug them. I can't meet emotional needs if he won't let me. He said that I was meeting his emotional needs as being part of the family with the kids. I wanted alone time with him, he wanted to always include our girls.

You are getting good inklings of how to try to meet his true emotional needs for plan A!

Sounds like
conversation
and
admiration
are a couple needs of his......now...might be that admiration isn't a top one....really think over the ten and try to gauge the most important five and address each, creatively and confidently....even though you are not feeling confident.....move in that direction boldly.

Text HIM during the day, night, whenever.

"How exciting about all the riots in the middle East! ______ really is having a time of holding onto power right now...etc" (start reading online reports of various political news things,etc if that is a passion of his)

"Saw you made the bed....thanks dear"

You go off and learn some golf as a new hobby just because. You might play with him in the future, might not.....it can be a pastime for you to focus on the skills and the older kids can hopefully help care for the house and any younger kids while you do go out and learn.

Offer admiration "I am so proud of how you financially support our family" "I admire how you ______" etc.

Craft a life where you have time to do things while your kids are cared for. Ask WSO to go along with you but if he doesn't....you still go! Show that you are a big girl gosh darn it.

Trista! I'm so glad you're still posting. Do you know now (based on what you've told us about your families) that possibly your views on marriage could be a little skewed? It is possible to fix all of this, which would be awesome for your children.

Please get that book and maybe even if you get to that point with your WSO, he'll read it too and see just how important that piece of paper really is. In the meantime, keep working on your Plan A-like behaviors, but understand Plan A isn't necessarily about meeting ALL his needs (if you get my drift) but that you're willing to if he makes things right. Also, keep in the back of your mind that you're not going back to the pre-A relationship. You want the whole ball of wax. Don't settle for anything less.

One of my favorite flirty texts is: "I heard that aliens have landed and they're kidnapping all the beautiful people. I'm gonna miss you." See, that can be taken two ways... are you talking about him or yourself? Lol

Keep working on this. Sounds like you're beginning to get things worked out in your heart. Stick around and keep growing.

Even moreso I suggest going forward with Plan B and a Plan B letter which includes marriage as a condition of reconciliation.

Considering how long this has gone on...if there isn't a definitive line drawn in the sand (a boundary of what you'll accept in order for YOU to continue participation in the relationship) then he ain't stopping. He's got a cougar girlfriend with money to blow on him AND a family.

I'm far enough down the road to not be mad at you about deceiving us here. I'm more bothered FOR YOU than at you. MB isn't likely to be to effective for you until you get married.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- since you aren't married...I'd consider going to dark Plan B AND actively pursuing a few casual dates which somehow innocently get leaked to him by someone. It's manipulative but could be effective. He doesn't mind having his cake and eating it too...but the thought of permanently losing his cake to another suitor may bother him and increase the perceived value of said "cake". Who knows...in the process you MAY meet someone that values you a whole lot more than this guy seems to.

Mr. Wondering, thank you for your reply. I really do appreciate it

Well Plan A is only going to last up until he goes on the trip to Costa Rica. I talked to him Sunday night and asked if he was still going. He told me, "some days I don't want to, and other days I do, but if you asked me right now what my answer would be, then I would say YES I am going."

I then asked him "why? If you aren't 100% sure you want to go, then why would you? He said 'because the tickets are already bought and paid for, and...her family already knows I am coming and they are expecting me to be there."

I don't even know if I should still say something to her family before he goes? Being as though I can't say, I'm the wife? Any ideas on how it should be worded?

My Plan B will be dark, but it's not going to be while I stay in his house. My Plan B is different, considering no marriage vows etc. so I am moving out. I will have everything packed and ready to go. This may be his house, but there won't be a home here any longer. Just a bunch of bare walls.