I first found this site in 2009 and did not follow the advice and expose my husband's affair. Instead, went to counseling which was completely useless and he continued, and continues the affair to this day. I exposed to absolutely everyone I could think of approximately 3 weeks ago, including his sister, his friends, my friends and family, and his co-workers. The A is with a co-worker who I could not identify for a long time as she is good at keeping herself low profile (no facebook page, cell phone hard to trace, po boxes you name it). She is a single mom. He continues to deny it and says they are just friends. I have seen texts and e-mails not sexual but "hey babe", etc. After exposure things got ugly and I asked him to leave the house. Shortly thereafter he got fired from his job due to the contact with the co-worker. He blames me for the job loss even though he was skating on thin ice due to getting caught several months ago drinking at work and was placed on admin leave until he got help and got sober.

I recently found out and he admits he is an alcoholic. He has been resisting getting treatment but agreed last week to go inpatient. He enters rehab for 28 days tomorrow which makes Plan B a bit easier. It has been hard for me to maintain no contact with him as he moved out of our home into the home of the co-worker and I am so angry.

Questions include whether I did the right things with exposure and whether this will even work with an alcoholic who takes no responsibility for his actions.

Welcome to Marriage Builders Hopeforanswers! We're gonna have to figure out a nickname for you because we have several Hopes around here. How about HopeFA?

Good job on exposing, better late than never.

Has he actually moved out of her home?

If you're having any contact with him, then you're not really in Plan B. You know that right? You should go read Scotland's thread. I think she just updated tonight so it should be easy to find.

As far as the alcohol, Dr. H says his program will not work as long as WH is an alcoholic. While he's in rehab, he won't be allowed to have any visitors for the first 36 hours (I think). Hopefully, his head will begin to clear and he'll realize the magnitude of what he's done and is doing.

It sounds as if your LB is in the red. You probably should go into a REAL Plan B, to protect your LB. In the meantime, get "Surviving an Affair" and read Dr. H's articles about this on this website. If he does happen to wake up from his stupor, you'll be ready.

Stick around. We have several posters who have dealt with/are dealing with the alcohol issue.

(((HopeFA)))

I forgot to ask, what was your username in 2009?

Hi hopingforanswers, welcome to Marriage Builders. Can I suggest you change your screen name to something more unique so folks can distinguish your story? We have so many screen names that start with "hope" or "help" that I can never keep them straight and I read here every day. If you have a more unique name, it will be easier to find you.

I would suggest you go into an air tight, dark Plan B and even file for divorce to protect yourself legally. Marriage Builders does not work with an alcoholic because it is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic. Plan A is a disaster because an alcoholic will just use it as an opportunity to exploit and use you.

I would also find a good Alanon group.

When you send him your Plan B letter, I would specify that he not ever contact you again until he a) ends his affair and b) stops drinking and enters a recovery program. Otherwise you don't have a marriage.

I am sorry this has happened to you.

What to Do with an Alcoholic Spouse

I agree with MelodyLane. I will read a post thinking it is one poster but it is another.

OK, so I changed my name to FormerJerseygirl, hope that helps to distinguish me.
I never posted in 2009 so no former posts, I just sort of lurked looking for advice into my situation.
Thanks for the links, I thought I had read somewhere that MB would not work with an alcoholic but couldn't find the article.

H went into rehab today. He refused all help from me or his sister and let his gf drive him. He is extremely angry due to my exposure at their workplace, claims I ruined his career.

Oh, and MelodyLane, I did file for divorce to get him out of the house. I am just not good at the deep dark Plan B but should be easy now that he is in rehab for 28 days, if he lasts that long. I have been clear that he needs to 1) end contact with her and 2) get into recovery. #1 was going to be difficult since he worked with her but that was taken care of last week. I did not wish for him to lose his job as that hurts me financially too but I think they were looking to get rid of him anyhow due to the drinking issue. What a mess!

Thanks for changing the name! I would get good at a dark Plan B. That is a decision you need to make. In the meantime, I would send him a Plan B letter while he is in rehab. That is the perfect time to send it. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would get that.

In the meantime, I would write a letter and send it to him and then CUT OFF ALL CONTACT. Block his email address, block his phone calls, find an IM. Go read marriedforevers thread about Plan B in the announcements sections. GEt prepared, write your letter and post it here so we can give you feedback.

How to Plan B Correctly

That is a great article, I will work on my letter in the next few days. He already called from rehab today, I was avoiding all calls until it came up on the caller ID as "private" and I answered it. Damn! He also may not be there for 28 days due to insurance issues. Stay tuned.

How does one get the strength to Plan B? I completely understand the logic but it is maddening not talking with him. He is still in rehab but he has been calling frequently to check on the kids. I am losing my mind but trying to formulate how to go into deep dark Plan B. I also don't want to hurt his chances of recovery.
Interesting little tidbit today, someone from HR in his former company called me today providing all sorts of info about OW. She seemed to think OW is acting more in the savior mode (trying to save him from his addition) and there is not a romantic thing between them. I have no idea why this person felt the need tell me this and I don't know that it makes me feel any better. I still need to work on my Plan B letter.

They make a decision. Strength is a choice. Plan B is hard the first couple of weeks, but after that you will feel better than you have in months and years and won't miss him much. It will become a relief.


Plan B would HELP his chances because staying in contact and being supportive protects him from much needed consequences. He abused his family and needs to experience those consequences.

Nor will he bother to CHANGE to meet your conditions if you don't go into Plan B. He will have no motivation whatsoever.

Thanks MelodyLane. Deep dark Plan B started this morning. He got out of rehab unexpectantly(to me) last night and OW picked him up. I started getting texts from him after midnight because I had picked up his vehicle for safekeeping from where they left it at a park n ride. I did a quick Plan B letter this morning and left it with his keys to the truck in his truck which he came to pick up when I was not here. He does not have keys to the house anymore and I told him no contact except thru lawyers or one mutual friend. If he calls to talk to the kids I will just hand them the phone. If I would have had more time I would have packed up all his clothes and stuck them in his vehicle.

Are your kids old enough to answer the phone when it rings? You shouldn't even say so much as "Hello" to him.

Well, my daughter could but she won't. She's 8. Maybe I will just pick up the phone and hand it to her. Good point, I won't even say hello.

I know this sounds petty, FJ, but it is very important that your WH have nothing of you during Plan B. I've even advised BS's to change their phone greeting if they've personalized it, so their wayward wouldn't even be able to hear their voice on a recording. It will keep the wayward from getting a 'spouse fix.'

BTW, you haven't got a personalized greeting on your phone, do you?

I do, but I will change that now-thanks for the tip!!!!

Most answering machines have a default greeting, as does voice-mail. Just delete the personal and go to that.

That is what I have done. I have no reason to talk with him right now. Luckily finances are in good shape and the rest can be worked out between lawyers.

OK, so he pulls this one tonight, calls and leaves a message on the home phone stating he is coming over in a bit to pick up something forcing me to respond. I called back stating don't bother I don't have it and hung up. (I know,should not have done even that but did not want him showing up at the house)

Later he calls and I tried giving the phone directly to my 8 yo to talk with him (with me saying nothing). She won't take the phone. UGH.

If he calls, don't answer the phone and don't listen to his voicemails. You didn't have to call him back at all. Just don't answer the door if he comes over.

If he tries to get through, then have your Im contact him and tell him that his message didn't get through to you and to pass all messages through to you.

JG, it is real important that you do what you said and cut off all contact or he will know you are not serious. You cannot afford to lose your credibility with a wayward ALCOHOLIC.

He will not like losing control over you so you can expect him to do his best to TEST YOU to see if you really mean it. You MUST pass that test and show him you mean it.

You don't need to call him back. There is no such thing as being forced to respond. You just don't. If he were to come by...you do not answer the door and or if he comes and lets himself in....ask him to leave
"You need to leave. I am in such emotional pain. Respect my wishes" and then change locks as soon a possible to keep him from ever doing it again.
Phone wise....you ignore all messages that don't go through your designated intermediary.
If the child does not want to talk on the phone you tell child it is her way to communicate with Dad for now and if she will not do it....have intermediary tell him that child is not willing to talk on phone but intermediary will be able to arrange visits for him with his child.
YK?

Do not react to things now in plan B. Remove your spirit from the drama. If forced to be around him cause he ignores your boundaries....do not lovebust but be firm that his affair will need to end to have any contact with you. Period.

Change the locks!

Let it go to voice mail.

The locks are not changed but I have all of his keys and the garage door opener. So, he just left me a something like 5 minute voicemail stating my plan B letter to him really hit home, he is willing to give up the OW, he is very sorry, and is willing do whatever it takes to get this marriage back. I have not responded yet.

So, I guess I am wondering how one knows if this is really genuine or if he is just playing me? I wonder if OW is kicking him out so he is just out of a free place to stay? If he is genuinely willing to end contact with OW not to mention get sober, then what? His message states he is willing to do anything to get his family back. He obviously needs to get his alcohol addiction under control before much of anything else can happen.

Take it slow and easy. You can expect a WS to promise every thing to get you back under control. Call him up and ask him what his plan is for recovery from his alcoholism. I would expect him to get some sobriety under his belt first before I would even think about it. And what is his plan to STAY sober? Has he joined AA? Does he have a sponsor?

Unless there is a verifiable plan here, there is nothing here.


Being genuinely "willing" is not the same as DOING. This is a classic alcoholic TRICK to get you off their backs. Being willing is not the same as DOING. He must end his affair and enter a program of recovery FIRST.

I seriously doubt he is serious at all, he just wants to get it back where you are under control. Take it slow and don't agree to anything unless and until he PROVES to you over a period of time that he is done with his affair and is serious about alcohol recovery. I wager he won't be sober through the weekend. He just wants to come home.

Would it be better if her IM contacted him to ask for details of his plan? I thought part of Plan B was to have NC.

I ended up sending a short reply to his text reminding him of the 2 things he needs to do 1) end all contact with OW and 2) get sober and asked for details on his sobriety plan. No response to the text but his lawyer responded to my lawyer that they are researching possible other inpatient options plus he had been accepted into an outpatient program. So, a little progress has been made but actions speak louder than words.

Plan B is ongoing, I hope it gets easier. Every day I fight the urge to contact him but I don't. He sometimes calls to talk with the kids and saw them briefly this weekend but other than that, no new developments. He supposedly has not drank since getting out of detox and may be starting an outpatient program next week, at least he has an appointment. Most of my info comes through lawyers or mutual friends he is still talking to. He is still staying with OW but that is my fault according to him as I got a court order to get him out of the house. Oh, and since he lost his job he can't afford to stay someplace else. UGH...

You've just got to marvel at the sense of entitlement and martyrdom waywards possess, don't you? It's never THEIR fault that the world has caved in on them because they chose to go outside the marriage! Talk about amazing.

FJG, I haven't posted to your thread before, but being one who steadfastly believes in a Tupperware-tight Plan B, I just wanted to encourage you to keep it up. In fact, I'd go so far as to tell your friends that you'd rather not hear about his ongoing activities. There should really be one -- and only one -- intermediary to pass important (e.g. childrens' issues) information between you.

ITA with Fred. As I was reading what you posted, I was thinking, "this isn't a dark Plan B."

You shouldn't know that your WH isn't drinking, that he is blaming you for where he is living, none of it.

BTW, when he visited with the children, where did that take place?

X3. One of the main benefits of Plan B is to remove the betrayed from the crazy drama of the wayward's activities.

When your friends begin to tell you what your wayward is up to, stop them. Let them know that you have no desire to hear anything about him.

And my WS's activities are even more drama filled due to the alcoholism and my constant worry that he is dead on the side of the road. You are all right, and I will stop people from telling me what is going on with him. He clearly knows what he needs to do and actions speak louder than words at this point. I am pissed at myself I let myself live in denial for as long as I did. I should have Plan B'd a year and a half ago!

Question though, even after I exposed to EVERYONE I could think of (work, his family members and any and all friends) he continues to deny his relationship with OW is more than just a "friendship". Is this normal? Why would he just admit it now?

Oh, and OW stuck to the same story, they are just "friends" when asked by my SIL and also when she met with HR. What is the point of continual denial especially when he is staying with her?

Because they want to maintain some kind of 'integrity'. Go figure. It's a wayward thing, and waywards are good at lying and gaslighting.

OW is a single mom but I do have her parents' names & address-I did not expose to them. Shall I do a late exposure to them?
I am having doubts these days I will have the patience to ride out this storm. Most of my friends think I am crazy for even considering trying to repair my marriage.

Its ok. No one needs the admission of a liar to know the truth. No one with any sense believes him.

Have you checked into Alanon meetings, FJG?

And you are doing great by not letting him through!! Keep that up and you will feel better and better with every passing day.

Have you ever heard the song "It Wasn't Me" by Shaggy? If you were to catch him in bed with her, he would likely say it wasn't me. Waywards repeat the lie so many times, it usually becomes their "truth." There is no logic as to why they continue to lie, even when they are with their AP. They just lie.

Official song of waywards: It Wasn't Me'


(Yo', man) Yo'
(Open up, man) What do you want, man?
(My girl just caught me) You let her catch you?
(I don't know how I let this happen) With who?
(The girl next door, you know) Man
(I don't know what to do) Say it wasn't you
(Alright)

Honey came in and she caught me red-handed
Creeping with the girl next door
Picture this, we were both butt naked, banging on the bathroom floor

How could I forget that I had
Given her an extra key
All this time she was standing there
She never took her eyes off me

How you can grant the woman access to your villa
Trespasser and a witness while you cling to your pillow
You better watch your back before she turn into a killer
Best for you and the situation not to call the [censored]
To be a true player you have to know how to play
If she say a night, convince her say a day
Never admit to a word when she say makes a claim
And you tell her baby no way

But she caught me on the counter (It wasn't me)
Saw me bangin' on the sofa (It wasn't me)
I even had her in the shower (It wasn't me)
She even caught me on camera (It wasn't me)

She saw the marks on my shoulder (It wasn't me)
Heard the words that I told her (It wasn't me)
Heard the scream geting louder (It wasn't me)
She stayed until it was over

Honey came in and she caught me red-handed
Creeping with the girl next door
Picture this, we were both butt naked, banging on the bathroom floor

I had tried to keep her
From what she was about to see
Why should she believe me
When I told her it wasn't me

Make sure she knows it's not you and lead her on the right prefix
Whenever you should see her make the giggolo flex
As funny as it be by you, it not that complex
Seeing is believing so you better change your specs
You know she not gonna be worrying bout things from the past
Hardly recollecting and then she'll go to noontime mass
Wait for your answer: go over there
But if she pack a gun you know you better run fast

But she caught me on the counter (It wasn't me)
Saw me bangin' on the sofa (It wasn't me)
I even had her in the shower (It wasn't me)
She even caught me on camera (It wasn't me)

She saw the marks on my shoulder (It wasn't me)
Heard the words that I told her (It wasn't me)
Heard the scream get louder (It wasn't me)
She stayed until it was over

Honey came in and she caught me red-handed
Creeping with the girl next door
Picture this, we were both butt naked, banging on the bathroom floor

How could I forget that I had
Given her an extra key
All this time she was standing there
She never took her eyes off me

Gonna tell her that I'm sorry
For the pain that I've caused
I've been listening to your reasoning
It makes no sense at all
We should tell her that I'm sorry
For the pain that I've caused
You may think that you're a player
But you're completely lost
That's why I sing

Honey came in and she caught me red-handed
Creeping with the girl next door
Picture this, we were both butt naked, banging on the bathroom floor

How could I forget that I had
Given her an extra key
All this time she was standing there
She never took her eyes off me

It is amazing how they keep up the lies NO ONE BELIEVES THEM...

Melody-I have gone to a few Alanon meetings, did not find them that helpful but I will keep trying them. Individual counseling too.

What really is getting to me now is really seems not to give a crap about his kids. He has been out of the house for 4 weeks and has seen his kids for just over 2 hours-WTF??????? I really want to ream him a new one. I just keep working on an e-mail I have not sent to him but its therapeutic just writing it.

Should I expose to OW's parents?

I am not doing well with Plan B. NC is hard for me though I know its the right thing to do. I broke NC on Monday when 2 letters arrived at my house from OW addressed to BS when he was at rehab a couple of weeks ago. BS left rehab after 3 days so the letters arrived after he left and they sent them to his home address. It broke my heart reading her words of encouragement to him, telling how wonderful he is, and how much she misses him. There was such a sense of entitlement in her writings-WTF-he has a family that loves him and misses him terribly.

Anyway, when I read those I called him and read them to him. His response, "she's just being nice, she its not sexual" Maybe its not sexual, but its much worse. I don't know how I can possibly get past this if he ever wakes up from his fog. How is it even possible to piece our M back together? I know 20 years of history and 2 kids are worth it but he isn't giving me anything to work with or hope for.

Sorry for the rant, but its been a tough few days. I still have not wrote to OW's parents. Can someone direct me to where the sample letter is?