Hello,

Not sure what I am getting myself into here as I just registered after finding and reading about this site.

Long and short is I found out about a possible affair regarding my wife of 12 years and have had a chance now to look for opinions at several places. This is new to me and I have not posted on an advice site before but this place looks legitimate so that is why I am here. I don't know where to begin on seeking any advice and yes I am wary about sites and forums on the Internet unless I am familiar with them.

Anyway, are there counselors here or people who represent a support group?

hi there and welcome,
This is a group of people all trying to save their marriages, at all stages of the process.
Tell us a little about your marriage, how long, why you suspect and affair, with whom, do they work together, any kids, I suggest you read all you can on the site, there is a specific plan here and I'm sure the vets will be here soon to help you...
In the meantime stay calm and get educated.
jessi

Welcome, LifeAltering. You are on a website of peers who have been where you are. We are not qualified professionals, but the owner of this site is and can help. You can post on this site and we can help, or you can email the Harleys. Please feel comfortable with us and let us know what is going on in your life if you wish.

Welcome LifeAltering, glad you found us. No, we're not professionals, and we don't play them on TV. We're just a collective group of individuals who are here to better with a wide range of experiences.

If you read right above the forums, you'll see this quote:

One thing I might suggest is that if you suspect an affair that you click notify on your post and ask that it be moved to "Surviving An Affair".

Take your time, read up. LOTS of wonderful materials here and when you're ready we'll be here.

Hello all, and thank you for your responses. I have looked at a few other sites and it seems you have to subscribe to a newsletter which I won't do or just some rather vague comments. I appreciate your honesty in stating that you are peers and now I feel I understand this site btter, and thank you.

Not much time this evening as my wife is out with friends and I need to get the girls to bed. Just briefly, we're 37 and 35, daughters 5 and 7, married 12 years, I guess I would say typical middle class if that means anything, both hard working. Nothing major in our lives aside from the ordinary struggles regarding the marriage and trying to establish ourselves. Certainly no affairs and nothing up to now to suspect anything like that and I never really thought much about it or the possibility.

I have a very good friend at my work who I have known for several years and we both know him and his wife socially as well as me knowing him professionally. A few weeks ago invited me to breakfast and informed me he and his wife encountered my wife one evening at a local movie theater when they were there in line. I know him very well and he is nothing but just a great person with a family of his own so no hidden agenda on his part. I did feel he was sort of inquiring from concern and what I learned was she was there with someone. His wife is a wonderful person as well and he did tell me that it was her who prompted him to tell me this. Well this was about a month ago in mid Feb. and I was away part of that week and that friday on a project. Hard to think back without being seriously bothered by something like this but I feel certain about trying to reach her on both home and cell phones that time and no response until much later at night when she called back. Eastern city where I was so it was near midnight when call came back.

Lots of things since then. And now needing to get them to bed and but just wanted to reply since some of you have been so kind to respond. I have been reading the articles and whatever is here so I feel I have a much better understanding now of what this site offers plus your honest replies.

I am sort of a cautious person so I don't want to rush into anything without doing my homework. So I have lots more to learn and more to convey if that will help. Meggy thank you for your suggestion. Not sure of my way around here and chose this forum 101 since it looked like a starting point. I can investigage moving my post to the surviving site. Thank you again.

Hello, lifealtering. Welcome to Marriage Builders. This site is owned and operated by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D., a practicing psychologist, world-renowned author, and recognized expert in the field of marital relationships. To say that Dr. Harley "wrote the book" on the subject is not an exaggeration!

Many of Dr. Harley's works are available here on the site for free. His books can be purchased through the bookstore on the site, through your local retailer, or even borrowed from the library!

The forums are an adjunct to Dr. Harley's practice. There is the public forum, which we are using right now. There are also private forums available to those who have counseled with Dr. Harley and/or his staff.

There are many veterans on this site who have not only been here for ten years or so, but are so well-versed on Dr. Harley's principles and works that they can cite them verbatim.

Lest I sound like a shill, let me just state that I am one of the many men who learned that his wife was having an affair, and found this site through the emotional devastation I experienced. The people here and the guidance found here helped me (and countless others) to recover my sanity and to learn how to be a better man and husband.

I understand your caution -- believe me, I think most people are very much like you when they first arrive -- I invite you to click the links in my signature block to read about this site and Dr. Harley's concepts, and then to post away! The one piece of advice I'd give you is to answer questions honestly, and learn to trust the experience of those who have trod this path before. Sometimes the advice seems to go contrary to our learned beliefs, but when you see the efficacy of the past experience, you learn that these people know far more than we do.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. This forum is the best club that nobody wants to join.

lifealtering, welcome to Marriage Builders. The first step in saving your marriage is to find out what she is doing and with WHOM. Don't ask her and don't accuse. Just quietly slueth and find out. Once you find out who the affair is with come back here and we will give you next steps.

There are several ways to find out. One is to hire a Private eye. You can also put a GPS on her car, install a keylogger on her computer, install flexispy on her phone and place a voice activated recorder in her car. Go to our Operation Investigate forum for some brand suggestions.

LA, sorry you had to find us, but welcome to our sanctuary/library/laboratory.

While you are putting the "snoop" systems in place that Melody Lane listed, I would urge you to do one more thing: Do NOT let on that you suspect your wife is cheating. If she suspects that you know something is going on, she will inevitably take her actions further underground, making your task more difficult. As a recovered BH, I would also suggest you quietly acquire a small mini-audio-recorder, and have it on your person at all times that you are in your WW's presence.

There are some "non-electronic" lines of passive investigation you can quietly engage as well.

Is your wife employed? 75% of WW's are involved with someone they work with - co-worker, client, etc. Think about the circle of folks in your wife's work-life. Are there any candidates that she FORMERLY spoke of positively, and now has more-or-less disappeared from her reference?

This group of "friends" that WW was supposedly out with last night? How well do you know them and their situations? Would they all be in the highly-moraled, upstanding, family-oriented group, or would the group be dominated by divorced, or single, women possibly younger than your WW?

And, be prepared for the worst. Put out of your mind RIGHT NOW any thoughts of "My wife would never......", etc. As my nickname suggests, and dozens of recent posters here would attest to, it seems that "Virtually every wife would......." given the right set of circumstances.

Hello, LA~
You are in a very safe place here @ MB...
There are many MB veterans who know how to help you navigate through the emotional turmoil you are experiencing.
Please trust them!
As you reread the posts you have received thus far, be sure to answer all questions thoroughly & honestly.
Only then will you receive much wisdom & discernment.
I like this part of your second post:
This tells me that you are "teachable".
I hope you will be receptive to the veteran's encouragement & advice so that you will understand how hard you are going to have to fight for your marriage!
It is imperative that you find out who the "someone" is!
Did your wife mention seeing a movie while you were out of town?
Are there any men in her family who would be considered legitimate movie dates?
If she didn't mention it to you, it is probable that she was with someone who is a threat to your marriage.
You need to find out ASAP! (As in, "last month"!)
I am sad that you are having to seek this kind of forum ~
However,
I am very happy that you found Marriage Builders!
The more you read & learn Dr. H's books & articles, the faster you will be on the road to success in reestablishing love in your marriage!
I will be following your progress...

Hello Wise1 and all the others here who responded. Weekends are busy and this is my first chance to post again here. I have been on and have read some of the articles and concepts as well as a few other posts. I will say that I had a good laugh at myself as when I went to the 101 section thinking I need to transfer my post to the Surviving forum and found someone already did. From the responses I have received this seems like a very welcoming place although I wish I didn't have to ask for help here. I'll try now to give you more of my situation but it could be off and on as I do not want a certain person to know that I am responding here.

A little more of background, as I mentioned married 12 years, we both work now, me full-time and at same company for 7 years and her part-time for last couple of years. Met 13 years ago when I was first getting stateed in my career and she was finishing college here then dated and just felt she was the one! and she seemed to as well and then engaged and married a year later. Just gradual careers and getting adjusted to marriage for us and it was maybe a little easier because her family is in the area - mine is out of state - but nothing really extraordinary aside from the usual pressures and ocasional growing-pain arguments. One thing a little different is when I met her she was coming out of a break up with someone she had been engaged to and she seemed to be depressed for awhile just in terms of how she reacted when we first met. It wasn't a worry factor for me because a month or so after we met she just seemed like the real her. She had a bout with some depression after our last daughter was born and saw a Psych and nothing more. With eveything I could not have been happier. I am trying to keep this as brief as possible to cover out situation and history and it's challenging.

Anyway, I recognized her feeling about wanting to succeed on her own and we agreed she go back to take some post-grad courses in her field about a year ago. She had maintained the fort so to speak when I went to get my MBA a few years back. That has paid off and altho we're not anything more than comfortable now we both seem to realie least we can have some economic secuity for the family with everything now going on in the world. Anyway in the way of background that is it.

Melodylane, before I got to this site I did inquire and push her for an answer if she had gone out. After reading a lot more here now I agree that was the wrong approach and it has now put me in limbo, but I was doing that only from my experince and concern.

My wife and I have always seem to be able to communicate on everything but this was different to me. I did not accuse just stated about our friends' statement to me and she just simply told me no. A couple of days later she did admit she ran into a friend from school from the last semester while she was out shopping (her sister here sometimes babysits our kids) and they decided to just simply see a movie. So, have heard is "jsut a friend" quite a few times but it really upsets me. Supposidly this is a fellow student from last semster in her evening classes.

Well, as I write this I realise we have a problem and in between being upset and working hard I am confused now. Melodylane, I don't think my friend would have even told me this if he and his wife were not sure. He would not get "kicks" out of this and fact that he met with me to tell me this just has me embarassed now quite frankly. She just seems distant now and I just feel there is something going on that I don't know about. Her reaction has made me distant too because she refuses to say anything more about that incident and even accuses my friends as "clacky" That is her word. I just feel guilty tonight about giving the the impression of questioning her about something she hasn't done and just having my trust deflated.

Tomorrow I am going to search for a counselor to attempt to address my concerns face to face. At this point I don't even know if shw would agree to that. Also, I will call the MB center to see if Dr. Harley would advise. Thank you all again but am not sure at this time at all.

She is lying to you, la. I am so sorry. You are right to have deflated trust of her. Just think, if this was innocent, she would have had no reason to lie about going to movies with him. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. She is covering up an affair, I am sorry to say.

But please don't take my word for it. Quietly have her tailed if you can afford it. Other ways are to place a GPS on her car along with a voice activated recorder. Do you have access to her computer and cell phone? I would check her email along with cell phone bill.


I wouldn't bother with this yet because if there is an affair - and I suspect there is - marriage counseling will be a waste of time. Marriage counseling is a waste of time anyway, since most marriage counselors are destructive to marriages. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. Most are not pro-marriage and are little more than divorce faciliators. If your wife is in an affair, for example, going to a MC could be disasterous to your marriage. The reason is because marriage counselors help spouses achieve their desires and since they don't understand the temporary fogged out mentality of a wayward spouse they often encourage them to follow through with major changes based on temporary feelings.

So, please rule out an affair before you decide to contact any MC.

Wise1, I just posted as I could but I realize I didn't answer a couple of your questions.
First, no she didn't say anything about being out and I had no reason to ask at that time except about the phone calls to which she said she fell asleep early. And no, my family lives out of state and she has a sister here in the area but on one else except her parents. Second, she seems to be connected to a few friends/classmates from her evening class, they are also female, and according to her she was with them, We were actually out with one of them after one of her classes last Dec. for a pizza at a place on campus and it seemed great.

This is to melodylane, I have done a search and cannot find anything. She has a laptop nothing and no history. We have family mobile phone account and have requested the detailed bill from the last three months to review. Again I am knew at espionage so am trying to muddle through. I did go to Radio Shack and a couple of other places Sat, and priced a recorder. The scary thing is that if I am wrong it will really hurt her and us. In my gut tho I do take seriosly that my friend would not have even told me about seeing her if he was not concerned. Exhausted my time and now is time for me with girls and to relax before big workweek.

If you are wrong about an affair, it will not harm you guys. You will have a perfect opportunity to become a great husband. Consider this a wake up call.

Read up on marriage builders principles, start applying them.

melodylane hello and thanks. Right now my mind is spinning and I feel I need to get away from this, I appreciate your comment and yes I have my gut feeling she was lying but to hear it from someone else is pretty harsh. I am not meaning you are harsh just is the idea and realization and that is why I am here to get better perspective than I have now. I'll have to respond to you in a few days as now really have to get upstairs and be with them meaning our girls. Dog needs walkng too. I realize what you mean though as she is distant now. Thank you.

la, it won't hurt you if you are wrong. It is good to snoop in a marriage sometimes in order to hold each other accountable. You have a right to know every thing she does and says. This is information about your life. There is nothing wrong with snooping.

Another thing you can do is install flexispy on her cell phone. This will give you a log of her cell phone texts. If you don't see anything on her phone bill, I would look into putting a tap on your land line and search around for a secret second cell phone.

Have a nice evening with your girls.

...which means she's likely erasing the history.

Hey there,

Sorry to find you here. And I was here just like you in January. I did not want to hear what I was being told about the possibility of my husband having an affair. And the thoughts of snooping and spying on my husband was just horrible to me. I never thought he would do that to me, he who used to say cheaters were the scum of the earth. Well, lo and behold, he was indeed having an affair with a co-worker.

So do some checking. People who have nothing to hide are open about what they are doing. Hopefully you don't find anything terrible out. I understand hearing this makes you angry, I've been there too. Sadly, these folks know what they are talking about.

Look, make this real easy on yourself.

• Do NOT bring up your suspicions to your wife again.
• Get a GPS for her car.
• Get a VAR for her car, and anyplace she might go for a "private" phone call.
• Get a keylogger for her laptop.
• Get a spy program for her cell.

STOP WASTING TIME! You can have all this done in two days at the max.

Every day you don't know what's going on will be hurting you. Every day you don't know what you're dealing with is another day you might let slip your suspicions. Every day you are not taking steps to halt her (probable) infidelity is another day fostering it.

It may well be that the involvement has so far been limited to an EA. Here's an algorithm for you they don't teach in MBA programs:

EA + Proximity + Time = PA

Stop the "navel-gazing" and "Oh, what shall I do?" garbage and take action to correct the problem.

If you have evidence of the affair you'll want to brush up on Plan A.

Meeting her needs but not being a doormat.

Neverguessed and others as well. It's very late but not able to sleep well now that I've had a chance to think about all of your advice here and think about the situation. Neverguessed I assure you I am not as you say "naval gazing" and have spent a good part of today with any time I have had reviewing info here and your posts and also have done my homework on various tools recommended. I admit to wanting to believe her and that nothing like an affair would happen. Deep down I know it can unfortunately happen to just about anyone these days. Have decided on Flexispy for her phone (we have Nokia) and seems to be the best as you recommened. Also a VAR for the car she usually uses - we sometimes switch but she prefers the car instead of the van which I normally use. I couldn't download the spyware tonight as she keeps phone in her purse and it's on the stand in the bedroom and I don't want to rummage around tonight. Should have opportunities in next day or so to install both of these when she's busy with the girls or other things. I can use my business CC for these and simply reimburse company so these purchases are not visible to her. I have to admit to feeling guilty and sad at looking into these items - alot of reference to cheating spying, etc., but I know it's necessary and I'm within my rights in doing this.

I haven't said anything lately about that night out or about her going out ocasionally with her friends (from class). She wasn't angry and I wasn't rude or angry either, just that she became defensive and vague. When I first did I felt uncertain and even like an idiot but I had to go with what my friend told me because he seemed concerned and I was and am too. There were just gut feelings too that things are different over the last few months. I know she had a tough time with the class she took last semester but it seemed like less sharing on her part and just in general less tuned in to me or us. I've also started a log of times she is gone, except for her work, and times and when I can't get hold of her going back a few weeks as best I can remember. I'm doing this to simply help me get my arms around this to make sure I am not overracting about all this. It just will help me.

Neverguessed I feel I have done about the best I can in this short time and I feel as urgent about this as you do. I love her very much always have. I want to believe this is nothing but know I can't ignore my feelings. Its also tough at this time as I love my job as well and am inovolved in a major project at work and that requires my energy and time as well. Just alot of pressure and feelings at this time. Thank you much for your concern and advice.

LOveCAG, thanks and I realize that. Regardless of what I learn I agree and have been reading as much as i can. Have read about Plan A in one of the concept pages along with other things. When I first visited here I didn't realize there is so much to study and learn, and just from the reading I've done now feel I am going to have to buy Surviving an Affair. A little overwhelming at first but am going to proceed. Thanks

You choose an appropriate username. This adultery stuff IS Life Altering.

Yes, the info can be overwhelming but it is powerful. You won't find a better place for help and daily support.

Lifealtering, We all know how you feel here. Please do a few things to make ready for a possible war as you have been advised already.
1) Stay Calm (easier said than done I know) Breath in breath out.
2) Become a expert at survey-lance overnight. It will cost you around 300$-500$ to get set up.(money well spent, PI's run that a day)
3)Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Preparation is a key many dont get when they are Confused with facing a possible affair. Listen to the letter any Vets advice. Even when counter intuitive.

4) gather your evidence and document, document, document.

DO NOT let your Anger or Feelings take your eye off the ball. Dont confront again YET. Its imperative you keep suspicions to your mind and maintain normal appearances.

This advice comes from My mistakes and many others mistakes.

la, that sounds like a good plan. Please come back here with your findings and we can help you develop next steps. I agree that you should get the book Surviving an Affair so you know what you are dealing with.

Lifealtering:

As men, we got to be strong about this. Affairs are extremely common and no one wants to believe it is happening to them. My family is extremely Christian (go to church when its open, bible studies, devotions, prayer, etc) and my wife still cheated on me. I always thought her faith was keeping her above that evil but I was wrong. It can seriously happen to anyone (I even read people of other faiths or no religion at all).

My wife was very distant with the affair. Before if I was in the bathroom for too long (lol) she would come and ask if I was okay. Or she would get mad if I was on my cellphone during conversations with her (violation of undivided attention). In the affair, she was on the cellphone and barely wanting to know anything about my day, ignoring my kisses, etc.

What are your warning signs at the time? By the way, the fact your friends have given you warning about the movie is a great sign that something is happening. DO NOT IGNORE FRIENDS. My wife was spotted having dinner with OM which was a violation of every decent moral code out there (including POJA). It was the call from a friend that alerted me to an affair (dinner). My wife never told me she ate dinner with anyone and she got very defensive when I said that was inappropriate.

There is one other explanation about not finding "history"...
It is called
"PRIVATE BROWSING"!
When PB is activated, you will see NO history...
The ONLY way you can find out what is happening on a computer is to install a keylogger!

hello MB, using some lunch time today to gather more information on what I need to know. Needless to say the snooping stuff has been on my mine quite abit the last few days and I admit it makes me feel strange and a little squeamish. It's made me feel different toward her just realizing what I'm doing. I guess reserved and careful more so. I actually had more or less a moment of glee when I was up late last night realizing that there are these techniques but short lived. I knew about some of these just have not had any reason to need to use them myself. Just one thing about me is that I know I wear my emotions on my sleeve and she and some others close to me have told me that. Just am trying to act normal in the meantime and if questioned have the excuse I just feel tired and under pressure at work.

Onemoretime - you threw me with the survy-lance until I looked it up in the net. Must be tired LOL.

Meggy - all I can say it I'd rather NOT be a member here. When I register at a website I sometimes try to pick a name that sort of fits. I wanted to use "lifechanges" and found that it is taken.

LoveCAG, just the gut feelings over time. Less communication on us type stuff and more on maintenance things such as turn off crock pot when get home (we did talk alot about her course and school and helped her with her stat class she took) - when will you be home (felt checking on my comin and goings ) - usual weekend date night not seeming as entusiastic - not looking forward to it that much it seems or not even changing or getting decked out. More recently defensive, stern when I did bring up her time or whereabouts and the movie "date" instead of getting angry or just reassuring. Just several things I feel are not right. Another is impatience as in she wants to get to a store and I should be ready in a very short time - upset if I don't respond right away. Please tho don't get the impression she is neglecting the girls or home stuff. She is and always has been a devoted mom and this hasn't changed. I keep mulling this could be anything but I can't seem to get a reasonable straight answer from her if anything is bothering her about her well being or us.

MelodyLane - I totally agree regarding counselor. She had a very good person for individual counsel several years ago when she was going through some depression. This person was very supportive of both of us and the goal then was to help her get back to her noramal self. I learned some then about me not being there for her as much as I could have or should have. That was different and in looking at net reviews of M counseling though I would have to agree with you so that is not high on my list now even though she brought it up.

Much too long here now but I just appreciate all in the way of advice and support. I want to continue a search I have done in doing the monitoriing though. I'm learning you have to be careful with using certain techniques in terms of legality. The spyphone and var seem fine since phone accounts are in my name just as head of household and I was the one who initiated those. The GPS I really have questions about now and will do more research. Her computer she was able to purchase from her work with payroll deductions. The desktop we have here is for family as we all use it and I sat there yesterday and absolutely nothing there. Need to go will report back as soon as I can. Thanks.

loveCAG, this totally slipped my mind but you hit a nail. The bathroom thing has been noticeable. Before this if I was there she would just walk in or if she was I could just go in especially hurrying to get ready for work. Lately it's she won't go in or for me is just wait until I'm out. It hasn't stood out that much but it is one of the changes I've seen. I'm not wanting to debate it but it just seems she's a lot more conscius of modesty and privacy now.

Update, I am home now and left work early today. This is one of the rare times I have done this. I've gone to work and stayed with cold or not feeling well in the past but simply can't hack this today because I feel too many things all at once now that I've gone this far. We're in our annual audit and as cf fin ofcr. need to handle this however decided I can take questions home work on those tonight as I would in the office. Most of that stuff is done by email with attached worksheets anyway. Fortunaely she wasn't home and probably picking up the kids and possibly stopping for something on way home. I'm glad I did this because I've been trying to get back to some intensive consistent exercise and now I can get to the exercise area and work out plus do some running which believe me will help.

I've felt a rush of emotions since I came here and I guess thats par for the course but I just didn't feel ready for all of this. It's not any of you it's me. She called me at work earlier today to ask me if I'm okay because I seemed tired this morning and I was. I told her fine and just want to eat do what work I have and get to sleep and said I didn't sleep well. No reason given.

I'm going to install the spyphone tonight given the chance and take her car tomorrow to have install the recorder. Tonight I'm going to find the time to try to review cell phone bills for detail, but from my experience there isn't much detail unless you request it. Am expecting hardcopy prints of bills thsi week.

la, I don't know if you will have a need for it, and I dont' want to make you sick, but some here have used semen detectors in their quest for the truth. They are very effective and somewhat easy to use. Here is one that some here have used. checkmate

I have some quiet hours to post back here. She's out and kids are with neighbor friends. The Last week was stressful to say nothing less but since a few days ago I feel better than I have in quite awhile. I know I can't respond to everyone but I am appreciative of all the advice. I mounted the recorder several days ago and registerd for the spyphone.

Melodylane not doing that or even considering right now. I appreciate but am not looking forward to that kind of evidence. I fully know you can do all sorts of things to monitor in a relationship and feel that kind of relationship isn't worth the effort.


The monitor indicated the calls, a few to me on my cell and work number and some other missed calls or calls made to certain other numbers. This is about three days worth. Not many calls but I dialed back a few not familiar numbers and found one to university finance office, our day care facility, an auto dealer, and just a few others. Nothing on strange or repeated numbers. i received the hardcopy detail of cell phone bills last two months but havent reviewed yet. The recorder was different A lot of activity through voice although one sided. Constant chatter meaning her talking and nothing way out but heard names which are a few of her woman friends and a William. Heard that last several times and it's not bill or will but William. I scanned and haven't had a chance to listen totally but evidence of talk about where she will be, where she is, where I am, how she felt I that I felt when I got home from work the other night, to me a lot of private stuff. That was last night and I realize women like to talk to their female friends about their complaints but to hear this with some guy named William or whatever infuriated me. I need to add that I don't know how many of you have gont through this and probably many here but it saps any energy and or desire you migh have. The trust thing is the thing I am most worriied about now. I don't even want to look at her now knowing that a William is her friend and that I am probably low on her totum pole.

Going to need to break. Kids here now. Were supposed to go out last night for a date night but did not. I admit I was p*d off after the whole last week and what I initially heard. She, I guess expected a time out I declined and watched the BB torunament. One of who might understand I could not be around her last night for any reason.

Lifealtering:

A lot of pre-affair behavior involves having the opposite sex hearing the complaints of the marriage..Intimate conversation.

You must find out who this William is... This is a good start. Is the chatter to this William about how you don't understand her, don't love her right, how I don't know what to do, etc? This is very bad.. I don't know if it has gone full blown affair or not but this will definitely be leading there.

This is not a time for you to retreat, you are going to be raising some holy war on this affair. You are going to be the best husband ever in the upcoming two and a half years. You will have to start meeting her needs like nothing else. You can't be a doormat, however. You can't enable her behavior. If she says anything about divorce, not in love, affair, etc. You have to pretty quickly say you can make her life better, there will be no destroying this family, we can be in love again, and I have more love history with you, etc.

You need to find out who this William is and find some pretty concrete evidence. Also, in the mean time you are officially in Plan A mode.

Eric

LoveCag, I don't feel anything like a doormat but I understand why you might say it. I'm still wading my way through this and I don't think we would have surviced at all if that was the case. I've provided for all of us and have a good job which I am happy with. Things might change over time for a couple from when you're young and can't stand to be without each other and if the case then maybe I'm one of those who really doesn't understand women. I don't think so though and maybe people just tend to grow apart.

I'm not sure I understand the two and half years and am I missing something here? Not many complaints that I heard on the voice but statements about where she will be and when and when she has to be home or at work. One statement was "he didn't want to discuss it" and not sure what that was unless it was last weekend about not wishing to do something with her. If she has complaints to HIM maybe after last night she has already somehow complained again to him. We had a weekend date night planned but it didn't happen. I was too upset and too down after this week to consider being with her and that was right after listening to just part of her voice talking about private stuff and calling someone Honey a few times. Unex[ected bad argument and she got livid and that is now where we're at now, that I'm suspicious and not enjoyable to be with and she's selfish and couldn't care less about us. I was hoping that the girls could be at their friends house but they went out for tonight and have them here now. Just need more time to get through this stuff now.

I think I remember you saying your wife is employed. Okay, 75% of women who start out in EA's (whether or not they progress to PA's) do so with someone from work, or related to work.

Look for a trusted peer, a mentor (my WW's personal choice) or, increasingly, protege. Consider a supervisory position or some such. Client, maybe?

Next, look for "without you" leisure activities - sports (gym colleagues are popular), service organizations, etc, etc.

Finding an identity for "William" will be the critical start to "Operation Life Re-altering".

Continue/improve your unconcerned mien when dealing with WW. You WANT her comfort level high, because with that comes carelessness. Engaging in fights with her is NOT good, on many levels. Yeah, we know it's tough, but recovering from the effects of more quickly driving her to his understanding arms is infinitely tougher.

Flexispy should soon give you the correct lead. As mentioned, that's when the real work can begin.

Lifealtering:

Ooops I should of clarified my 2 year statement. They say bare minimum it could take 2 years before a marriage is restored from adultery. It could be more than that, obviously.

I would also add that William could be a fellow student from a class of hers. Some schools have an online roster which you could find a William but not all of them have this.

Continue your snooping, I am sure you'll find something really soon!

LA, it's been a while since you last posted.

Have you discovered the full identity of "William"?

We're here for you, whatever your current situation. What can we do for you?

Hello Neverguessed and all. Sorry but this week was a very busy one and I couldn't get here for any length of time. She's at a hair appt. this now and will pick up some pizza we had planned on way home so I have a little time now.

Yes she works parttime three days a week at a job that could lead to fulltime. She's been there for awhile now. She went back to college (some grad classes) last summer and takes one class a sememster. Not a degree program but to help her career.

Last time I hadn't had much opportunity to listen in on the recordings but I have now. In summary pretty clear just about most of the concersations are with the same person. Only heard william mentioned a couple of times. However pretty clear she is talking to someone about her days, times, where she is, a little about the kids and how they are. A pretty clear complaint about last weekend being boring and tense. "Ihaven't discussed it with him", "I can't make it there at that time", several 'Sweety's", byes, and some other things making it clear. That was three days worth as I removed the recorder end of last week and I honestly have not had the chance to reinstall it. I reinstalled it a couple od days ago haven't had a chance to take it out yet.

I'm sorry, but I have no clue on the identity of this guy except it's clear he also goes there for classes. One reference to stopping for a beer or coffee after her class one the night last week that her class was over. One thing I did notice is her family cell phone calls don't support this activity in terms of times. There would be alot more activity on her phone if she was always using it. So I would agree she probably has another phone she bought herself.

I have not asked her if she has one and I've looked and I will need help on this too. If she keeps it in her purse I haven't been able to get at it. She has it with her next to a chair she is sitting in or puts it away at night or just stows it somewhere. It was out by a chair last weekend when she went out of that room and I started to look but she came back. (I had heard her coming and had walked away). This all has me discouraged and tired by now. I know most of you have gone through this in some form or other but I feel I am just beginning. I haven't brought up a feeling or a word about my suspicions and I've been trying the best I can to engage her in conversation, asking about her days and school, suggesting going out, trying to surprise her with little things like stopping for ice cream on way home, and that sort of stuff. Tonight on the way home I stopped to pick up some flowers for her. Have them in the garage in a vase for when she gets home. Variable reactions, sometimes intersted and other times it is like I could fall over or dance on tables and she is like far away distant. Just not there!! We did watch some of a movie last night after the kids were sleeping and sitting close some and just a little touching but that was all there was. Tonight I'm going to suggest that we try for someone to sit the kids and go out. I don't think either of us would have had a very nice time out tonight as I know I am exhausted and she seems tired too this week. This is all I better post for now as just got her call and will be home soon. Thank you much. I will try for more update this weekend.





I

sorry you find yourself here LA. this is the sort of thing which has been happening for time immemorial. there are lots of here all under more or less the same circumstances. crazy stuff. you don't have to be in a bad marriage for it to happen either. it is about boundaries. your W obviously felt she couldnt talk to you about something or maybe she didnt realize that by engaging this fellow she would be embarking upon something sinister. it is a slippery slope.

It sounds like an EA, maybe not physical yet. he is a comforting presence to her somehow. it is about her ENs (emotional needs). you are meeting some and so is he. on a level she knows she is doing something wrong but it feels GOOD.

same class? if so, could you obtain a class roster? is there a way to screen the names of students for a "william"?she probably has a pre paid or secret phone. does she have an iphone? there are apps that will allow you to have another number.

dont ask her. that will tip her off and will make it much harder for you to gather intel. it is a cat and mouse game right now. hold your cards close. it is very much like POKER. you need to cultivate a poker face while you are gathering your intel. great books to get include "not just friends" by Shirley Glass as well as Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. your wife could very much be like Kevin who almost took that next step like Sue did. just know that no matter how nice you are to her, she is probably closed to it bc he is building LB$ deposits with her that either rival your own or exceed them. do not be discouraged if she sounds unappreciative on the VAR. you need GPS too. go on the intel thread. the one you buy at radioshack (the name eludes me) sounds like a good one. my OM lives >1000 miles away after they had their PA so am "lucky" in that regard. do not hesitate there.

check her car too. she could be hiding it in there. she is probably doing most of her talking with him in the car.

trust your instincts LA. she is engaged in at least an EA. before you know it, she will hit you with ILYBNILWY. your sitch is not a bad one necessarily bc it sounds like it could be early in the process. take solace in that.

try to get her alone this w/e just for time betw the two of you. do something she likes. you need more intel. you know that. i am again sorry you find yourself here bc it is not a happy place to find oneself. remember that you are still a family, she is your wife, you have your girls. live in the moment.

Does your wife have facebook, myspace, or other social networking sites? You can find a William there. Or take some time off from work and attend class with her. You can ask a professor or other student who William is if done discreetly. You can now have a last name to work with. Do not reveal to your spouse you are doing these things.

In the mean time be extremely affectionate, romantic, talk to her, and go out with her even to the grocery store. If you make love to her be affectionate during and aftet and talk.

Eliminate love busters and use chivalry when opening doors. Lets see her see the passionate side of you.

So I would agree she probably has another phone she bought herself.....I have not asked her if she has one and I've looked and I will need help on this too. If she keeps it in her purse I haven't been able to get at it.

Okay, it's either in her purse or her car. Have you "strip-searched" the vehicle yet? Do it.

As for the purse, do we really have to spoon-feed you the steps to check it out?

How about this? Tonight drink five cups of extra-caffeine coffee. "Try" to fall asleep with your WW. After she nods off, wait an hour, quietly get up, retrieve the purse and go through it. No rocket science degree needed here, just an all-consuming, internal, intense flame of wanting to end this affair before it goes any farther.

Which, now that the topic is broached, we're not seeing a whole lot of from you. Save the "You don't understand...." excuses, LA! The point to THIS post is to make damn sure YOU understand the importance, and necessity, of ACTION, not wishy-washy "Oh, this is so rough!" whines.

I'd have been parked outside her class the first night after my suspicions were triggered, WITH a camera, taking photos of who she left class with. I'd have asked her how her class was going, and what she thought of her professor, etc, looking for a hook. By now, somehow, I'd have gotten a class roster (lie, cheat, steal, somehow), and known not only William's last name, but his address, marital status, employer, SSN, and, if necessary, blood-type, to arrange for the needed transfusion when I was done "discussing" this with him.

You've been whining for two weeks - I ended my wife's EA in two HOURS!

Ditto NG

Originally Posted by lifealtering

LoveCag,

Not many complaints that I heard on the voice but statements about where she will be and when and when she has to be home or at work. One statement was "he didn't want to discuss it" and not sure what that was unless it was last weekend about not wishing to do something with her. If she has complaints to HIM maybe after last night she has already somehow complained again to him. We had a weekend date night planned but it didn't happen. I was too upset and too down after this week to consider being with her and that was right after listening to just part of her voice talking about private stuff and calling someone Honey a few times. Unex[ected bad argument and she got livid and that is now where we're at now, that I'm suspicious and not enjoyable to be with and she's selfish and couldn't care less about us.

LA ~
Do you know what her prof's name is?
If not, find out!
Next ~
Plan A'ing is the hardest thing to do when your emotions are raw!
Your emotions are R A W!
However, you can implement rational, cognitive thought-processes in making the "decision" to do what needs to be done here...
My father-in-law used to have a saying...
I know you know it!
"When the going gets tough, the tough gets going!"
Get your "tough" juices a'goin'!!!!!!!!!!
AND
Remain loving, respectful, kind, gentle, etc.
The very LAST thing you want is for your W to "suspect" that you "suspect" that she's wayward!
If you allow your "R A W" emotions to give you away, she will simply go deeper in her A...
That will make your "snooping" job even more difficult (mentally, emotionally & physically)...
You CAN do this!

You still with us? Want to know how things are going with you!

I really hope things are going great with you and that you were able to find who William was and successfully gathered the intel.