Hello,

Not sure what I am getting myself into here as I just registered after finding and reading about this site.

Long and short is I found out about a possible affair regarding my wife of 12 years and have had a chance now to look for opinions at several places. This is new to me and I have not posted on an advice site before but this place looks legitimate so that is why I am here. I don't know where to begin on seeking any advice and yes I am wary about sites and forums on the Internet unless I am familiar with them.

Anyway, are there counselors here or people who represent a support group?

hi there and welcome,
This is a group of people all trying to save their marriages, at all stages of the process.
Tell us a little about your marriage, how long, why you suspect and affair, with whom, do they work together, any kids, I suggest you read all you can on the site, there is a specific plan here and I'm sure the vets will be here soon to help you...
In the meantime stay calm and get educated.
jessi

Welcome, LifeAltering. You are on a website of peers who have been where you are. We are not qualified professionals, but the owner of this site is and can help. You can post on this site and we can help, or you can email the Harleys. Please feel comfortable with us and let us know what is going on in your life if you wish.

Welcome LifeAltering, glad you found us. No, we're not professionals, and we don't play them on TV. We're just a collective group of individuals who are here to better with a wide range of experiences.

If you read right above the forums, you'll see this quote:

One thing I might suggest is that if you suspect an affair that you click notify on your post and ask that it be moved to "Surviving An Affair".

Take your time, read up. LOTS of wonderful materials here and when you're ready we'll be here.

Hello all, and thank you for your responses. I have looked at a few other sites and it seems you have to subscribe to a newsletter which I won't do or just some rather vague comments. I appreciate your honesty in stating that you are peers and now I feel I understand this site btter, and thank you.

Not much time this evening as my wife is out with friends and I need to get the girls to bed. Just briefly, we're 37 and 35, daughters 5 and 7, married 12 years, I guess I would say typical middle class if that means anything, both hard working. Nothing major in our lives aside from the ordinary struggles regarding the marriage and trying to establish ourselves. Certainly no affairs and nothing up to now to suspect anything like that and I never really thought much about it or the possibility.

I have a very good friend at my work who I have known for several years and we both know him and his wife socially as well as me knowing him professionally. A few weeks ago invited me to breakfast and informed me he and his wife encountered my wife one evening at a local movie theater when they were there in line. I know him very well and he is nothing but just a great person with a family of his own so no hidden agenda on his part. I did feel he was sort of inquiring from concern and what I learned was she was there with someone. His wife is a wonderful person as well and he did tell me that it was her who prompted him to tell me this. Well this was about a month ago in mid Feb. and I was away part of that week and that friday on a project. Hard to think back without being seriously bothered by something like this but I feel certain about trying to reach her on both home and cell phones that time and no response until much later at night when she called back. Eastern city where I was so it was near midnight when call came back.

Lots of things since then. And now needing to get them to bed and but just wanted to reply since some of you have been so kind to respond. I have been reading the articles and whatever is here so I feel I have a much better understanding now of what this site offers plus your honest replies.

I am sort of a cautious person so I don't want to rush into anything without doing my homework. So I have lots more to learn and more to convey if that will help. Meggy thank you for your suggestion. Not sure of my way around here and chose this forum 101 since it looked like a starting point. I can investigage moving my post to the surviving site. Thank you again.

Hello, lifealtering. Welcome to Marriage Builders. This site is owned and operated by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D., a practicing psychologist, world-renowned author, and recognized expert in the field of marital relationships. To say that Dr. Harley "wrote the book" on the subject is not an exaggeration!

Many of Dr. Harley's works are available here on the site for free. His books can be purchased through the bookstore on the site, through your local retailer, or even borrowed from the library!

The forums are an adjunct to Dr. Harley's practice. There is the public forum, which we are using right now. There are also private forums available to those who have counseled with Dr. Harley and/or his staff.

There are many veterans on this site who have not only been here for ten years or so, but are so well-versed on Dr. Harley's principles and works that they can cite them verbatim.

Lest I sound like a shill, let me just state that I am one of the many men who learned that his wife was having an affair, and found this site through the emotional devastation I experienced. The people here and the guidance found here helped me (and countless others) to recover my sanity and to learn how to be a better man and husband.

I understand your caution -- believe me, I think most people are very much like you when they first arrive -- I invite you to click the links in my signature block to read about this site and Dr. Harley's concepts, and then to post away! The one piece of advice I'd give you is to answer questions honestly, and learn to trust the experience of those who have trod this path before. Sometimes the advice seems to go contrary to our learned beliefs, but when you see the efficacy of the past experience, you learn that these people know far more than we do.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. This forum is the best club that nobody wants to join.

lifealtering, welcome to Marriage Builders. The first step in saving your marriage is to find out what she is doing and with WHOM. Don't ask her and don't accuse. Just quietly slueth and find out. Once you find out who the affair is with come back here and we will give you next steps.

There are several ways to find out. One is to hire a Private eye. You can also put a GPS on her car, install a keylogger on her computer, install flexispy on her phone and place a voice activated recorder in her car. Go to our Operation Investigate forum for some brand suggestions.

LA, sorry you had to find us, but welcome to our sanctuary/library/laboratory.

While you are putting the "snoop" systems in place that Melody Lane listed, I would urge you to do one more thing: Do NOT let on that you suspect your wife is cheating. If she suspects that you know something is going on, she will inevitably take her actions further underground, making your task more difficult. As a recovered BH, I would also suggest you quietly acquire a small mini-audio-recorder, and have it on your person at all times that you are in your WW's presence.

There are some "non-electronic" lines of passive investigation you can quietly engage as well.

Is your wife employed? 75% of WW's are involved with someone they work with - co-worker, client, etc. Think about the circle of folks in your wife's work-life. Are there any candidates that she FORMERLY spoke of positively, and now has more-or-less disappeared from her reference?

This group of "friends" that WW was supposedly out with last night? How well do you know them and their situations? Would they all be in the highly-moraled, upstanding, family-oriented group, or would the group be dominated by divorced, or single, women possibly younger than your WW?

And, be prepared for the worst. Put out of your mind RIGHT NOW any thoughts of "My wife would never......", etc. As my nickname suggests, and dozens of recent posters here would attest to, it seems that "Virtually every wife would......." given the right set of circumstances.

Hello, LA~
You are in a very safe place here @ MB...
There are many MB veterans who know how to help you navigate through the emotional turmoil you are experiencing.
Please trust them!
As you reread the posts you have received thus far, be sure to answer all questions thoroughly & honestly.
Only then will you receive much wisdom & discernment.
I like this part of your second post:
This tells me that you are "teachable".
I hope you will be receptive to the veteran's encouragement & advice so that you will understand how hard you are going to have to fight for your marriage!
It is imperative that you find out who the "someone" is!
Did your wife mention seeing a movie while you were out of town?
Are there any men in her family who would be considered legitimate movie dates?
If she didn't mention it to you, it is probable that she was with someone who is a threat to your marriage.
You need to find out ASAP! (As in, "last month"!)
I am sad that you are having to seek this kind of forum ~
However,
I am very happy that you found Marriage Builders!
The more you read & learn Dr. H's books & articles, the faster you will be on the road to success in reestablishing love in your marriage!
I will be following your progress...

Hello Wise1 and all the others here who responded. Weekends are busy and this is my first chance to post again here. I have been on and have read some of the articles and concepts as well as a few other posts. I will say that I had a good laugh at myself as when I went to the 101 section thinking I need to transfer my post to the Surviving forum and found someone already did. From the responses I have received this seems like a very welcoming place although I wish I didn't have to ask for help here. I'll try now to give you more of my situation but it could be off and on as I do not want a certain person to know that I am responding here.

A little more of background, as I mentioned married 12 years, we both work now, me full-time and at same company for 7 years and her part-time for last couple of years. Met 13 years ago when I was first getting stateed in my career and she was finishing college here then dated and just felt she was the one! and she seemed to as well and then engaged and married a year later. Just gradual careers and getting adjusted to marriage for us and it was maybe a little easier because her family is in the area - mine is out of state - but nothing really extraordinary aside from the usual pressures and ocasional growing-pain arguments. One thing a little different is when I met her she was coming out of a break up with someone she had been engaged to and she seemed to be depressed for awhile just in terms of how she reacted when we first met. It wasn't a worry factor for me because a month or so after we met she just seemed like the real her. She had a bout with some depression after our last daughter was born and saw a Psych and nothing more. With eveything I could not have been happier. I am trying to keep this as brief as possible to cover out situation and history and it's challenging.

Anyway, I recognized her feeling about wanting to succeed on her own and we agreed she go back to take some post-grad courses in her field about a year ago. She had maintained the fort so to speak when I went to get my MBA a few years back. That has paid off and altho we're not anything more than comfortable now we both seem to realie least we can have some economic secuity for the family with everything now going on in the world. Anyway in the way of background that is it.

Melodylane, before I got to this site I did inquire and push her for an answer if she had gone out. After reading a lot more here now I agree that was the wrong approach and it has now put me in limbo, but I was doing that only from my experince and concern.

My wife and I have always seem to be able to communicate on everything but this was different to me. I did not accuse just stated about our friends' statement to me and she just simply told me no. A couple of days later she did admit she ran into a friend from school from the last semester while she was out shopping (her sister here sometimes babysits our kids) and they decided to just simply see a movie. So, have heard is "jsut a friend" quite a few times but it really upsets me. Supposidly this is a fellow student from last semster in her evening classes.

Well, as I write this I realise we have a problem and in between being upset and working hard I am confused now. Melodylane, I don't think my friend would have even told me this if he and his wife were not sure. He would not get "kicks" out of this and fact that he met with me to tell me this just has me embarassed now quite frankly. She just seems distant now and I just feel there is something going on that I don't know about. Her reaction has made me distant too because she refuses to say anything more about that incident and even accuses my friends as "clacky" That is her word. I just feel guilty tonight about giving the the impression of questioning her about something she hasn't done and just having my trust deflated.

Tomorrow I am going to search for a counselor to attempt to address my concerns face to face. At this point I don't even know if shw would agree to that. Also, I will call the MB center to see if Dr. Harley would advise. Thank you all again but am not sure at this time at all.

She is lying to you, la. I am so sorry. You are right to have deflated trust of her. Just think, if this was innocent, she would have had no reason to lie about going to movies with him. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. She is covering up an affair, I am sorry to say.

But please don't take my word for it. Quietly have her tailed if you can afford it. Other ways are to place a GPS on her car along with a voice activated recorder. Do you have access to her computer and cell phone? I would check her email along with cell phone bill.


I wouldn't bother with this yet because if there is an affair - and I suspect there is - marriage counseling will be a waste of time. Marriage counseling is a waste of time anyway, since most marriage counselors are destructive to marriages. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. Most are not pro-marriage and are little more than divorce faciliators. If your wife is in an affair, for example, going to a MC could be disasterous to your marriage. The reason is because marriage counselors help spouses achieve their desires and since they don't understand the temporary fogged out mentality of a wayward spouse they often encourage them to follow through with major changes based on temporary feelings.

So, please rule out an affair before you decide to contact any MC.

Wise1, I just posted as I could but I realize I didn't answer a couple of your questions.
First, no she didn't say anything about being out and I had no reason to ask at that time except about the phone calls to which she said she fell asleep early. And no, my family lives out of state and she has a sister here in the area but on one else except her parents. Second, she seems to be connected to a few friends/classmates from her evening class, they are also female, and according to her she was with them, We were actually out with one of them after one of her classes last Dec. for a pizza at a place on campus and it seemed great.

This is to melodylane, I have done a search and cannot find anything. She has a laptop nothing and no history. We have family mobile phone account and have requested the detailed bill from the last three months to review. Again I am knew at espionage so am trying to muddle through. I did go to Radio Shack and a couple of other places Sat, and priced a recorder. The scary thing is that if I am wrong it will really hurt her and us. In my gut tho I do take seriosly that my friend would not have even told me about seeing her if he was not concerned. Exhausted my time and now is time for me with girls and to relax before big workweek.

If you are wrong about an affair, it will not harm you guys. You will have a perfect opportunity to become a great husband. Consider this a wake up call.

Read up on marriage builders principles, start applying them.

melodylane hello and thanks. Right now my mind is spinning and I feel I need to get away from this, I appreciate your comment and yes I have my gut feeling she was lying but to hear it from someone else is pretty harsh. I am not meaning you are harsh just is the idea and realization and that is why I am here to get better perspective than I have now. I'll have to respond to you in a few days as now really have to get upstairs and be with them meaning our girls. Dog needs walkng too. I realize what you mean though as she is distant now. Thank you.

la, it won't hurt you if you are wrong. It is good to snoop in a marriage sometimes in order to hold each other accountable. You have a right to know every thing she does and says. This is information about your life. There is nothing wrong with snooping.

Another thing you can do is install flexispy on her cell phone. This will give you a log of her cell phone texts. If you don't see anything on her phone bill, I would look into putting a tap on your land line and search around for a secret second cell phone.

Have a nice evening with your girls.

...which means she's likely erasing the history.

Hey there,

Sorry to find you here. And I was here just like you in January. I did not want to hear what I was being told about the possibility of my husband having an affair. And the thoughts of snooping and spying on my husband was just horrible to me. I never thought he would do that to me, he who used to say cheaters were the scum of the earth. Well, lo and behold, he was indeed having an affair with a co-worker.

So do some checking. People who have nothing to hide are open about what they are doing. Hopefully you don't find anything terrible out. I understand hearing this makes you angry, I've been there too. Sadly, these folks know what they are talking about.

Look, make this real easy on yourself.

• Do NOT bring up your suspicions to your wife again.
• Get a GPS for her car.
• Get a VAR for her car, and anyplace she might go for a "private" phone call.
• Get a keylogger for her laptop.
• Get a spy program for her cell.

STOP WASTING TIME! You can have all this done in two days at the max.

Every day you don't know what's going on will be hurting you. Every day you don't know what you're dealing with is another day you might let slip your suspicions. Every day you are not taking steps to halt her (probable) infidelity is another day fostering it.

It may well be that the involvement has so far been limited to an EA. Here's an algorithm for you they don't teach in MBA programs:

EA + Proximity + Time = PA

Stop the "navel-gazing" and "Oh, what shall I do?" garbage and take action to correct the problem.

If you have evidence of the affair you'll want to brush up on Plan A.

Meeting her needs but not being a doormat.

Neverguessed and others as well. It's very late but not able to sleep well now that I've had a chance to think about all of your advice here and think about the situation. Neverguessed I assure you I am not as you say "naval gazing" and have spent a good part of today with any time I have had reviewing info here and your posts and also have done my homework on various tools recommended. I admit to wanting to believe her and that nothing like an affair would happen. Deep down I know it can unfortunately happen to just about anyone these days. Have decided on Flexispy for her phone (we have Nokia) and seems to be the best as you recommened. Also a VAR for the car she usually uses - we sometimes switch but she prefers the car instead of the van which I normally use. I couldn't download the spyware tonight as she keeps phone in her purse and it's on the stand in the bedroom and I don't want to rummage around tonight. Should have opportunities in next day or so to install both of these when she's busy with the girls or other things. I can use my business CC for these and simply reimburse company so these purchases are not visible to her. I have to admit to feeling guilty and sad at looking into these items - alot of reference to cheating spying, etc., but I know it's necessary and I'm within my rights in doing this.

I haven't said anything lately about that night out or about her going out ocasionally with her friends (from class). She wasn't angry and I wasn't rude or angry either, just that she became defensive and vague. When I first did I felt uncertain and even like an idiot but I had to go with what my friend told me because he seemed concerned and I was and am too. There were just gut feelings too that things are different over the last few months. I know she had a tough time with the class she took last semester but it seemed like less sharing on her part and just in general less tuned in to me or us. I've also started a log of times she is gone, except for her work, and times and when I can't get hold of her going back a few weeks as best I can remember. I'm doing this to simply help me get my arms around this to make sure I am not overracting about all this. It just will help me.

Neverguessed I feel I have done about the best I can in this short time and I feel as urgent about this as you do. I love her very much always have. I want to believe this is nothing but know I can't ignore my feelings. Its also tough at this time as I love my job as well and am inovolved in a major project at work and that requires my energy and time as well. Just alot of pressure and feelings at this time. Thank you much for your concern and advice.