My wife and I have been married for nearly ten years and how two beautiful daughters six and three. Everything has always been pretty much normal and we hardly ever fight which sometimes can actually be a problem. Anyway, recently two situations have taken place that have things kind of up in the air. A few weeks ago my wife told me that she has been unhappy for a little while and feels we should go see a counsler about things. I was a little surprised at first after thinking it over I felt like we had let ourselves get into a little bit of routine. This caused less time for each other, doing our own thing around the house during the evening, and overall somewhat of a loss of our connection. That being said another scenerio has played out that has certainly not helped matters at all.

My wife and I have always never minded when one of use goes out without the other. It's a freedom that is needed from time to time. One Friday night (before we had the counsler convo) she went out with coworkers and did text me periodically to make sure everything was ok. At around 11:30PM she texts me to say she will be leaving soon to head home. I must of dozed off that some point and when I got up at around 1:15AM I saw that she wasn't home yet. I texted her and she ended up getting in around 1:30AM or so. We have never had times to come home but I was a little annoyed that she tells me at 11:30PM that she was leaving soon and then comes home two hours later. Really not what a wife should be doing and more the actions of a teenager hoping their parents will not know when they actually got in the night before.

Fast forward to Sunday April 17th as my wife who works in a school was heading into her week of spring break. That Sunday she wasn't feeling all that well in the morning but she got over it and we spent the day with the kids at her mothers. At some point she mentioned that some of her female coworkers were getting together that evening and would I mind if she goes. I was a little annoyed because she wasn't feeling all that well and I ended up dealing with the kids most of the time that day. Anyway, after we get some she ends up going out and arrived home around 11:30PM or so. I really found it to be no necessary and told her about it when she got home. Not to mention it was starting to make me a little suspicious. I also told her I didn't think these were the actions of a married women but of a single one. That afternoon she lets me know that she was taking my six year old to meeting some friends and their kids at Chuck E Cheese. The younger one was in daycare as it was open and hell we pay for it.

That Wednesday we talked about things at greater lenghts and I discovered that Sunday's get together was guys and gals. She then went out again that Thursday with a planned event with coworkers and again arrived home around 11:30PM. Early the following morning with my suspicions at a high level I headed down stars and took a look at her phone. I find some texts with one of her good girlfriends and in it I see where she's asked if she has been going with others or only him. My reaction was waking her up and asking her what in the hell it was all about. This is when I learn that she had meant a make coworker friend and his kids that day at Chuck E Cheese.

That Saturday I check the cell phone bill online and for the last month or so I see a huge number of texts between them all day everyday. I ask about it and get told they're really good friends and that's all. I then find out that of course he has been at most of these coworker outings. She then says did you notice that the texts slowed down. I said yes and asked why. She said it's because they both realized it wasn't appropriate and by the way his wife had said something about it as well. This mad me mad because I said bs it wasn't because you both realized anything but because his wife saw this before I did and said something to him. She assures me nothing physical has every occured and that they are just friends. I told her that at the very least this was an emotional affair and I feel very betrayed. Not to mention there was lying going on when I asked for example who was at certain things.

After all of that I come to find out she met him and his kids again the next day with my daughter. Now I see where while being off she might of thought this would be fun for my daughter but after knowing how I felt she went again. She said she didn't tell me because she knew I was upset and didn't want to put me over the edge. At this point as far as I can see there was been not text or phone contact. I can't be 100% without using a keylogger to see what might be going on via email or Facebook. She agrees she knows what this all looks like but insists nothing has ever happened and she has no feelings for him. We both agree we love each other but have things to work out so we can be happy. Will I ever be able to be 100% sure so we can get over whatever rut we're in and get back to where we are both happy.

Sorry you are here TnT,

I wouldn't believe a word she says. You caught her, red-handed.

The texts might have gone down because they are together in person. (just at the same place i meant)

I would snoop snoop snoop.

This has ALL the classic signs of a EA/PA.

You need to contact the OM's wife and compare notes ASAP.

If you wife is telling you the truth, OM's wife will know what you are talking about.

If OM's wife doesnt know WTH you are talking about, your wife lied to you.

Its been my experience tho, that once a wife/husband starts down the path of being a wayward, its almost always "just friends".

"he said she didn't tell me because she knew I was upset and didn't want to put me over the edge."

I was told this

She agrees she knows what this all looks like but insists nothing has ever happened and she has no feelings for him.

You ever see those movies where the spouse gets caught in the middle of %$^$ing and says "its not what it looks like"??

Its a defense mechanism. You need to find out the truth promto.

There is a snooping thread ill link to later if someone doesn't do it for you.

You need to get to the root of this thing and kill any EA/PA before it starts to bloom.

If you cant afford a keylogger there might be other options

Once again, I must pull out "NeverGuessed's BH Repair Kit"

1 - Get ahold of her phone and make copies of the dates and times of all the recent texts to OM (Unless she's incredibly stupid, she's already erased them. Too bad)
2 - Download "Flexipsy" to that phone.
3 - Get a few voice-activated recorders. Hide one in her car, and one in the room in your home she'd most likely take a "private" call.
4 - Put a keylogger on every computer she would have use of, that you can get access to.
5 - Do NOT bring up your suspicions again. You want her comfortable and careless.
6 - Put a GPS sending device on her car. Record every place she goes.
7 - Get a mini-recorder and keep it with you, and "on" whenever you're in her company.
8 - Prepare yourself to learn that she's already had physical relations with this dirtbag.
9 - Put together an e-mail list of all her friends (real life, facebook, etc) and family, (Sisters are really good.), clergy, administration at work, etc. Do the same for scuzzball.
10 - Research the laws of infidelity and divorce in your state.
11 - Understand that she no longer loves you, as of today. She loves him, and is ALMOST willing to risk her current life to be with him.
12 - Know that NOTHING she tells you will be the truth from here on out.

Okay, stop reading now, and get busy doing these things. You should be able to have them all finished by, say, Monday.

She's a teacher? Too bad. (Mine was too.) Between union team-building and the us-against-them mentality at the workplace, public schools are perfect breeding grounds for EA-to-PA issues.

Are you ready to be mean (approaching barbarian) in defending your marriage? Almost no men are. I was. I destroyed my wife's affair by threatening her life, her OM's youngest child's life, and the happiness of all family members involved, and ended the affair in TWO HOURS. (Probably a bit extreme, but compared to the usual Casper Milquetoast attitudes we get here - and your story has elements in that manner - it got the job done.)

Thank you for the replys already. At this point I'm willing to do whatever it takes to repair whatever has gone wrong in the marriage and make sure whatever this was with the guy is done with. We're going to start counseling and I have told her this all of these issues are going to be brought up and discussed further. I don't think anyone wants to be a snoop but I'm definately going to do the keylogger thing because at the very least I need to keep tabs on what is currently going on or being discussed. Besides being in the same school I told her no more contact that isn't 100% necessary. I actually kick myself a little bit for my initial reaction before finding all the evidence that I could. I mean is it possible this was really nothing? At the very least I told her this was the start of a very dangerous path to go down. Even if she thought things in her own mind guy is having that much contact without one thing always on his mind. As for any threats I have told her I will contact him and his wife if I suspect one more thing. It might be best to contact his wife anyway.

Good luck, Casper. I'm sure the counsellor will be a big help.

you bet, milk toast it is!!

You're right. Holding a knife to somebody's throat is the better way to go.

It's an expression for being prepared in everything you do. But you're correct, I should not have gone over your head. Sorry

I hear you but all I'm saying is when somebody like the previous poster talks about threatening lives that isn't the answer. The relationship is over at that point whether you believe it or not so why go there?

oh dear, would it be possible to break that post up into paragraphs so folks can read it?

My FWW said the same thing: we're just friends. But "just friends" ended up being a 5 month sexual affair where her and the OM were going to both get divorced to be together.

Get used to the idea that being a "snoop" is the best thing you can do for your M. Tipping her off about your suspicions before knowing exactly what is going on gives your W and the OM a chance to drive it underground. It happened to me.

I would be on the phone with the OMW right now to compare notes. This is primarily how I killed my wife's A.

We went to counseling too, and guess what happened? She lied about the A. Marriage counseling was worthless.

The "just a friend" thing is almost certainly a lie.

If it was "just a friend", she would NOT have been hiding her actions from you and lying about them as well.

I suggest the first point of contact should be the OMW, to confirm the story. Likely she's received a slightly, if not greatly, different story.

C is usually useless at this point, unless the MC knows how to deal with As. Most don't. And guess what - if you WW is lying to you (as she most likely is), she's going to lie to the MC as well.

NG gave you a good list of ideas to work with. In summary: Gather Evidence->Expose Affair->Plan A->Plan B (if necessary).

Do you have a way to contact OM's wife?
How soon can you do it?

Yes, I edited the post so hopefully easier to read.

talkintime, welcome to Marriage Builders. I would strongly suggest that you get ahold of the OM's wife and compare notes with her. She may know more than you and might be able to share information that would give you a complete picture. I agree with the others that you need to do some serious snooping. Put flexispy or mobilestealth on her phone, a GPS on her car and a keylogger on her computer. If this hasn't gone PA yet, it sounds like it is headed that way.

Another huge flag I see here is that your wife goes out without you. That is just an invitation to an affair when couples lead separate leisure lifestyles. You can see it has not helped your marriage in any way. And I wonder who these hens are your wife associates with? Do these women KNOW about her relationship with the OM? If they do, then they are NOT FRIENDS, they are enemies to your marriage.

And lastly, I would be very careful about going to "counseling." Most marriage counselors are destructive to marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages.

We have had marriages destroyed because they went to counseling. And let me explain why. When a spouse is in an affair, they are fogged out in an adultery "high." Since MC's know nothing about infidelty or how to save marriages, they help the wayward spouse make permanent decisions based on a very temporary state of mind. For example, if your wife goes in there and tells your average MC that she "loves you but is not in love with you," the MC would help her facilitate a separation. That would be a disaster, especially when the solution is to bust up the affair and take steps to recover your marriage.

My suggestion to you would be to find out if this counselor is pro-marriage [most aren't] and if they use a directive approach. Ask if they are familiar with Marriage Builders. MB has a 90% success rate amongst the couples who use it.

Thanks!!

And yet..........it WORKED!

Scary, high-risk, desperation-driven, prone to disastrous consequences............BUT IT WORKED.

It worked because by those awful threats, my WW realized that the consequences of her future cheating actions would be catastrophic. She also realized that for me, the most republican-registered, law-and-order-observing, paints-between-the-lines person she knew, to resort/descend to that level of anti-social behavior, she had disastrously miscalculated the depth of my feelings for her and our marriage.

I AM NOT ACTIVELY SOLICITING FOLKS TO COPY MY ACTIONS - SITTING IN JAIL WAS NO FUN! But moving toward that end-point of radical action (as opposed to "We're going to see a counsellor" or "I'd like you to kindly stop seeing POSOM") might have value.

NeverGuessed you're cool with me. I appreciate the responses and any insight and help you or anyone else gives.

Have you done any research on the OM's FB or your wife's FB account?
Do you have any of her passwords?

Talk, you're getting great advice from NG, ML, and MiM. I wanted to add something that I've observed around here.

We get BH's (betrayed husbands) showing up here all the time. Many times they will say they caught/confronted their WW (wayward wife), she says she's just friends with the OM (other man), but will cut down on the contact. The BH says his WW loves him and they are going to counseling.

Posters spend a lot of time typing out advice to the BH on how and why to snoop, how and why to expose, how and why to act with the WW. Many times the BH will refuse that advice, not wanting to snoop because it's an invasion of privacy, not wanting to expose because it seems vindictive, and thinking that marital counseling is a cure-all.

If those BH's come back at all after weeks or months, the affair is still going on and has intensified - an EA has gone PA, they are sneaking off for weekends together, and so on. The WW has lost respect for the BH because he wouldn't put his foot down and let her get away with having an A. Emboldened by his lack of action, the WW will push the BH to move out, and the BH will usually sheepishly comply.

The BH comes back to MB wishing he'd taken the advice he was given. Breaking up the A at this point is much more difficult and even saving the marriage may not be possible.

Will you listen to people who have been there and done that? To people who see this kind of thing every day?

Or will you be back in a few weeks wishing you'd listened today?

Sometimes threats are just what is needed to snap waywards back into reality. Remember that waywards are not logical when high on affairs.

Don't have the passwords so that's why I'm going the keylogger route. That way not only can I look at Facebook but I can also find out if there's any continued contact going on through the message or chat feature in FB.

I hope you remember to do a few things.

1. DON'T become clingy and needy.
2. DON'T pester her about the details of those nights, if she mentions them fine, let her.
3. DO take care of your hygiene.
4. If you happen upon any physical evidence, secure it someplace else.
5. Be Cool and Observe, document.

You are in Reconnaissance mode, you want her to think you've bought her cover story.

a great and cost effective keylogger is www.desktopshark.com its free .. and does not alert your antivirus.

Welcome to MB, Sorry you are here. Move to plan A and snoop like crazy all the while making your wife feel comfortable enough to slip up and give you what you need to expose this.

Listen to the vets here. The information they give you and advice they give you will be SPOT ON. I have yet to see them wrong.

Hang in there .. your in for a bumpy ride. Vent here .. and DO NOT let your wife know your coming here for info. She should stay away from this site for now until you gather all your evidence.

WHen you find something ... bring it here. Tell us. The vets will help you make a plan to squash this Affair and set you back on track to a health marriage again.

MNG

Thanks Mr. Nice Guy it's nice to know I can bring things back here to be analyzed by people who have been there and done that.

We have the T-shirts too TnT...

and the coffee mugs

LOL @ Neverguessd. SNOOP is the game right now. You are preparing for a war either way if its a EA/PA. Shes going to lie. Dont listen. Prepare yourself. Use technology to tag her weapon. (her cell phone)You may need to go to your MD and get something for what is going to be possibly the hardest thing you have ever done emotionally.
Snoop and get ready to blow her A up in her office and in your life. This is called exposure. A's are like vampires they live in the dark. EXPOSE them to the Truth (light) they usually die quickly.
She will need to quit her job ASAP upon exposure.
Relentless is now your nature if you want to protect and save your family. Be cunning in this war and use a plan you will draft and council here on this post.

I don't have much to add at this point, you've gotten some very good advice...snoop, gather evidence, keep your cool, it will require the biggest acting job of your life. When you have the goods, expose to everyone: family, friends, jobs, etc. You have to do it to everyone at once. When exposing on FB make sure you hit the most crucial first because you'll likely get blocked after the first few. Meanwhile, work on your Plan A. Have you done any reading? MB is a vast resource...Surviving an Affair, His Needs, Her Needs, Lovebusters, etc. Read Read Read!

Please tell me you're being facetious, NG. The counselor will be a waste of time, you know that.

Although your snooping tools are priceless.

Casper, this isn't something that can be corrected by handing it off to a marriage counselor for correction. It's an AFFAIR. The only counselor of any use to you would be a counselor who understands that there is an active affair and that the affair needs to be ended permanently.

Dear, sweet, trusting MB -
If you can trace back to the source the "Casper" reference, you'll easily see that my "counseller" advocacy was so dripping with sarcasm that it left a sarcasm puddle beneath your laptop!

Ditch MC Idea Unless they use DR H principals. Or go to a MC if you just want to dredge up past issues and resolve conflict that helps you end in a facilitated Divorce. The past is the past nothing you can say or do will change it. Look forward. Most MC dont have a clue on how to Kill an A or restore Love.
OK let me say also you may only be dealing with what was the start of a EA. You may have lucked up and caught it early. I did too ALL 3 TIMES. ARGH! But dont bank on that. Bank on snooping that will tell the truth. Intel is your mission. As hard as it is drop all this so she lowers her guard. LIE if u must to get her comfortable again. You certainly dont want to drive this underground.
I wish I had a nickel for every loss of connection and grown apart speech way-wards give. Its there way to justify an A. Blow that off. What is happening is you are not meeting each other emotional needs. Period. YOUR plan (plan A) is to start meeting those needs ASAP and schedule 20 hours a week to spend with your WW and give her Undivided Attention.
Many womens first need is Affection (non sexual) Hug her, notes, gifts, flowers and help around the home. Many womens other top need is intimate conversation. This is what OM is meeting right now I hope. You can meet it better. Think back to when you were dating and act just like that.

She assures me nothing physical has every occured and that they are just friends. Yep wish I had a nickle for this one too. Just Friends is how Affairs start every time. We dont just wake up and say im gonna bend over for a friend today just cause I like him. First they have to meet our ENs then we find it irresistible then it "just Happens".
Read everything DR H has. Get His needs her needs, Love Busters and surviving an affair quickly.
The time to be cunning and to be rational is upon you. Be skilled at knowing how to KILL an AFFAIR if it comes to that. But also being skilled in fulfilling her needs will pay off in triplicate right now. Avoid any Love Busters and you can salvage this regardless of the situation.
She will probably need to quit her Job. You may need to move. You have just entered the toughest plight of your life. But you also lucked up finding this board. Use it to formulate your plan. The vets here will give advice that will be hard to take and counter intuitive. Just do it and dont let FEAR stop you.
You and your Wife has done what every couple does. We enter M with great hope and guide it with intuition. Some bump around with intuition and luck up. Most fail to meet each others needs and we "Drift Apart". It doesnt have to be like that. Raise the bar on you M. Set your Boundaries to expect care and protection as you GIVE care and protection.
One motivated spouse can save the entire M so if shes not on board at first dont despair. But understand way-wards LIE< LIE< LIE! Snoop gathering evidence, Expose the beast regardless of what kind of A it is. Work a stellar Plan A!
Regardless of our moral convictions or our faith the sad news is we are ALL wired for an affair. Our Emotional needs are so powerful that if they arent being met by our spouse sooner or later our yearning for that need will lead us to having it filled outside of our M.

I figured it out right after I sent that!

Ewww...I was wondering what that wet stuff was!!!

Can somebody once again recommend a good keylogger to use. I tried Desktop Shark and the computer went nuts with warnings. I guess maybe I can try it again and make sure I disable every single possible detection device on the computer first.

Go straightaway to office max ETC and buy a good program like E blaster E blaster. Sell her Jewelry to fund if you must but technology is no way to cut costs at the moment.
What kind of mobile phone does she have? What carrier?

Go to www.spectorsoft.com and check out the eblaster. It sounds like your security settings might need to be changed. Also, you'll need to tell your virus program to ignore the keylogger program. Easy to do - eblaster will walk you right through it. I'm not familiar with Desktop Shark, so I'm not sure why you're getting warnings.

Verizon Droid X

Oh and when my WW first EA started up 6 years ago I used semen detection kits on her every 3 days. You can get them here. http://www.getcheckmate.com/
It was a true way for me to know for sure if it was a PA. Unless they use condoms. You have to abstain from sex with her tho, thats the bad news. Read more on there site.

The eblaster looks really good. Thanks.

Hi talkintime, welcome to Marriage Builders.

Can we stop and take a breath for a moment?

First, I see MelodyLane has responded to your story. They don't come any better than the good lady, so you'd be well advised to learn everything you can from her.

Which brings me to my second point: Learn as much as you can from this site about Marriage Building. "Surviving an affair" is a large part of this forum, but the principles espoused here are based on the decades of work and research done by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

The doctor has an uncanny ability to write his concepts and principles in such a way as someone with even my limited attention span and learning abilities can understand! But if you do not avail yourself of his wisdom (which, like this forum is FREE -- unless you choose to buy his books or schedule professional counseling) all the work in the world you are doing to recover your marriage now may come falling down around you in the future.

You can't do everything at once. Believe me, I know. I tried. So what you can do is spend some time reading everything you can on this site so you'll better be able to absorb the information and advice others are giving you.

This is perhaps the most important fight you've ever been in. And make no mistake, it is a fight! It's a fight for your marriage. One hopes you did not enter in marriage lightly; don't make the mistake of being steamrollered by your lack of preparation now.

Droids have great spyware programs that will show her calls/emails/texts and GPS her all at once. Im sure you already know Verizon gives text numbers on the detailed billing but it wont tell you what was said. Spy program will. Also Verizon wont release the messages without a court order.