I've been here before but just made this name so I could ask a question, due to privacy reasons.

When should a spouse snoop? I see on the SAA forum that of course ppl do when they have strong reasons to suspect an affair. I don't have strong evidence. I just have some weird things that bother me, like he doesn't keep his history on his computer, it's automatically deleted. He travels frequently so that's a problem. And there are a few unexplained female names in his contact list.

Our marriage has been difficult for some time. Working on that.

I've never found anything out of order on phone bills (the ones with all the calls and texts) or in his main email. But that doesn't mean everything, correct?

I think part of this is a gut feeling, but I'm afraid to say that because it might just be from reading about all the infidelity on here. Input?

Snooping is always a good idea in every marriage. If you find something, then you have an opportunity to save your marriage. If not, then you will feel reassured and trust is boosted. If your H travels then you should be checking often, because traveling jobs are an invitation to an affair.

Welcome, wi.
In answer to your snooping question: snoop NOW. I'm saying that because you said this:
Your gut is telling you something. Listen to it. Snoop, and if you find nothing, great. If you find something, don't talk to your H about it. Bring your info here and let us help you with what you've found.

I installed the keylogger. I've only monitored one day so far, and he went to a porn site. I have a feeling that what I'm going to find is porn (hopefully no live relationship). If so, how do I handle that?

Hi wonderingif. If you only find porn, I would confront him with it and ask him to stop it. But don't do that until you have snooped longer. When you do confront him, just tell him you have been watching his computer activity and know that he went to XZY website but don't tell him about the keylogger.

Darn. Having trouble with the keylogger and won't have access to fix it for a few days. In the meantime, it's eating away at me a bit. One reason is, he knows very well how I feel about porn and I've even asked him about it recently, denied doing it. The other thing bothering me is it was about swingers. I guess that shouldn't make me jump to conclusions but it scares me to think what else I might find.

I'm working on my own behavior/issues in the meantime and we are getting along better than, well, than I can remember.

Plan A your patootie off while you snoop.

Implement every tool you can while throwing him off his little trail here.

Crud. Talked to him tonight via video chat. He brought up that he knows someone's been messing with his computer. I can't lie well. Just said I check it from time to time and asked why he doesn't keep his history. He said he never has (I know for a fact he did up till a few yrs ago). Said he doesn't see why I can't trust him. I pointed out that he asked for all my emails and passwords etc when things were worse and I gave them. Said he can check anything of mine at anytime and did he have something to hide?

He said no. Asked what I was thinking I'd find and I said porn or other women. Man, I suck at this.

Anyway, he doesn't know about the keylogger and I'm sure thinks I really can't find anything (I'm not tech savvy, he is). I'll get it fixed soon and if anythings going on hopefully I'll still find it eventually.

Also, I have been Plan A'ing like crazy and we both have said we are feeling closer. It's beginning to take a toll, though. It's already been a few weeks. I'll just continue it for now and see what occurs. I did see a couple of unexplained phone calls on the latest bill. He talks to lots of ppl for work, and most of the calls were during work hours, but one particular number that shows up often during work hours also showed up a couple of times in the evenings hours. This is all while he's traveling.

I think I'm starting to imagine things.

The worst thing when you start to snoop is that when you find something, the spouse either has an explanation (which is seldom satisfactory), they get defensive at having their privacy violated (completely disregarding the fact they violated YOUR trust), or if you don't find anything, you will keep looking till you do and maybe get obsessed with it.

When I got married and moved into my husband's house I found several pictures of women (both from magazines, some porn as well as a few old girlfriends). One night I saw him type in his email password so I went in and checked later. He had been emailing himself pictures he'd found on the internet of various women. I found pictures stored in the history (when he forgot to clear it, he was usually pretty meticulous about this). Sadly, I even found he had been on a few dating sites up until 6 months before we got married. He had never directly communicated with any of the women, just sent a "smile" and some of them sent them back. But the thought in my mind was "if this is all I've found, what else is there I haven't?"

If someone wants to cheat/be dishonest they will find ways of getting away with it. The fact your husband's phone records are clear is a good indication; however, he may have another cell phone? This is common with cheaters.

I would be concerned about the swinger's sites. It's bad enough looking at girly porn but to me, this is disturbing. Maybe he's just curious or maybe he's looking into it.

I would explain to him your concern with the websites, and that if he has nothing to hide that he disclose everything to you (like you did for him - passwords, etc.) If he has a problem with this you might want to find out why, one way or the other.

Eventually if your partner begins to be honest with you the desire to snoop dies away and the obsession with looking lessens each time you find nothing.

I wouldn't worry about getting obsessed with snooping, you may feel like you are for a time but from my experience if you can also be improving your relationship and get both of you working on marriage builders concepts then the worry and the fears die down as your partner starts acting in a more trustworthy manner.

I would suggest if you are worried or feeling insecure or jealous then there is probably a reason for it. (Short term feelings the reason may be hormones or something so watch out for this but longer term fears should be listened to).

I looked closer at the phone records. There is a phone number that is texted to and from, mostly during work hours (I know the one supervisor under him texts him for help with a manufacturing line, so it may be her). But there are several that are just at the end of his workday (she should be off work by then, she is a laborer and they get off earlier). There are even a few in the evening and even two on Saturdays (when he is always home).

I'm really upset. I was able to get a name for the phone number and it's a woman's name, age 35, never heard her name before. It's not the same name as the supervisor. I think I'm going to ask him what the supervisor's number is. I can't stand this.

I know what you are going through. Years ago I too subscribed to a keylogger software and found page after page of every porn site and even escorts services and messages he sent to people. At the time i disregarded it and never mentioned it and found my own way to get back to make myself feel better at the time. Another time a credit card company called the house to confirm some charges and told me they were from I-friends (this i did mention and he came back with some weird excuse)

wonderingif, I would get his phone and sneak eblaster or flexispy on it so you can read his texts. Don't accuse him until you get better intel. He will just go further underground.

I did ask about the phone calls/texts. He says they are all work-related. I did recall that the one, on a Saturday that he sent, was when I was there. He sent two texts to co-workers that night letting them know we were at a concert he had told them about. That was the one bothering me the most.

Anyway the keylogger is now partially working so I'll watch that and try to get it fixed when I can. Right now I'm fairly sure there is no other person. He did admit to porn use, however. He doesn't seem to think it should bother me. I explained how it makes me feel inadequate etc. and that I want him exclusively coming to me (phone or skype if he's away) for anything sexual. I'm not sure if that's something he's willing to commit to.

What do you do with a man who thinks a little porn here and there should not bother me? And who thinks my snooping is the problem, that a couple has to have trust or they don't have a good marriage? (even though the wife just found porn again recently).

I've been Plan A'ing like crazy and it's been great. Part of Plan A has been traveling to dh when he's out of town so we can have good UA time. He said he enjoys it but now the $ I spend to get there is too much and we should cut it down (not weekly, maybe just monthly). Cost is about $35/week. I don't get it.

I was feeling so hopeful last week. Cleaning up my side of the fence and having all that great UA time was helping. Now he doesn't care if we have the UA time because of $, and my need to feel secure is discounted.

A couple will have trust if they have honesty and openness.

It is honesty and openness that is needed in a marriage, trust follows.

There are numerous threads about porn and a couple of articles onsite. It tends not to be a positive thing in a marriage, and if one partner is unhappy about it then like anything it shouldn't be happening.

Is it reasonable to expect that even an innocent spouse would take snooping as an insult? I mean, ppl who aren't buying into MB principles. People who have been taught that a relationship must be based on trust, etc?

Or is it the experience of the vets here that a spouse who gets upset about the snooping is usually guilty? And what if he says that the snooping is making him think he should snoop on you, since your snooping raises his suspicions about you?

A person who is insulted because his or her spouse has "checked up on" them is either A. in an affair, or B. so engrossed in an independent lifestyle that they find Radical Honesty repugnant and POJA "controlling."

Neither is healthy for the marriage. He or she is either in an affair, or very vulnerable to one.

Invite him to!

Your husband works out of town and he doesn't want you to visit?

And, btw, porn is a form of betrayal. Don't listen to him tell you that the problem is yours.

A spouse who gets upset about snooping has something hide. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

If he feels like snooping, you should encourage him to do so. Write out your passwords,etc and hand him the list. THEN encourage him to do the same.

If my husband were as sneaky as yours I would be hiring a PI. And even more than that, would not be having any discussions about snooping because he would never know I was snooping in the first place. Snooping is not something to be discussed, it is just done.

He already has all my passwords etc and I've told him to snoop away. I've got to carry through on this now. I won't say anything else about it and keep on with Plan A.

The only thing I've found is porn. Unfortunately, because I stink at technology, I installed the keylogger incorrectly and only got one day of data. Before I had access to fix it, dh found it. He wouldn't have if it were installed correctly, but he did.

He was pretty upset. Can't believe I don't trust him, and because I stupidly had confronted him recently about some suspicions, he really thinks I'm being weird. He would not agree to never look at porn again, feels most men do and it's not a reflection on our relationship. Also refuses to make his history on computer available to me. He has ALWAYS been very independent in every way.

Since he has been traveling so much, his IBs have increased. Drinking a few beers every night (found that out from bank info), the porn, and he sees no reason to cut down on outside sports activities on weekends, though he is away more than he is home.

Like I said, he has always been quite independent and I have allowed it because I'm a people pleaser and he is strong-willed. That was pre-MB though. I see a better way now.

BTW, I have been cleaning up my side of the street big time and we have spent more UA time together (though not 15-20 hrs). He has stated he is feeling much closer to me. He has been in a state of withdrawal. He has become more compassionate, affectionate etc lately.

Do I just continue to clean up my stuff for a while, then when he is more in love reapproach the porn and IBs?

Wondering, can you go into more detail about this? What keylogger did you install? How did your H find it? Why did it record only one day and then stop? It would be a great help to our posters, so they don't make the same mistake.

Can you live like this? Yes, on the cleaning up your stuff part, but: Porn is a diluted form of adultery. He may not have a flesh-and-blood affair partner, but your H is spending emotional time with an image. That time needs to be focused on YOU.

I had not gone back and made the exceptions for the files on Microsoft security essentials. I was using eblaster.

I agree that time needs to be focused on me. But when we're apart and I offer phone sex or using skype, he says that just doesn't work for him. I guess that means the porn is more fun. Nice.

We are working to resolve this traveling issue, hopefully very soon. He'd rather be home. I'm wondering if some of this IB will naturally die out when we are together all the time. And no. I don't want to live like this.

Thank you, that's good info to know.

I seriously need opinions here. How should I handle all this?

As someone who has a husband who just confessed a lot of IB and a secret second life of hoarding.

Maybe you should ask this question in the Surviving and Affair forum as it gets a lot more action and help.

Porn can be considered a type of adultery and if my husband did it, I WOULD consider it that way.

I would ask or have mods move this over there.

I know they would say to keep snooping anyway without saying anything else to him. *such as a VAR in his car or put something on his cell phone. The cell phone info has been worth EVERY penny to me and he still doesn't know it is on his phone and his whole life is technical :-) *

Then if you find nothing else, you need to think about the Plan A, Plan B option listed under Articles in the When to call it quits section.

I also would say, write Joyce Harley and ask to be on the radio show with the DR himself! I was this week and just knowing it was coming directly from him on what to do made me feel better! He will give you a plan. The hard part will be to actually do it!

Why guess when you can talk to them directly and for FREE!!!!

(((Hugs))))

OK. I finally got another keylogger installed and it's working. This is the first night. He has been on porn for 1.5 hours. This seems to be what he does after we talk on the phone and before he goes to sleep. I'm hoping that's "all" I find. But I'll keep watching.

Besides the feeling that porn is infidelity, I have a major issue with the fact that he does NOT want phone sf when I offer. He seems to have other ways of taking care of that need, even when I want that. Also, the fact that he is out of town so much is really weighing on me. He has definitely increased his drinking along with using the porn while he's been traveling this much.

Should this be moved to SAA? I do see porn as a betrayal, but not sure people on here see it the same way.

Wonderingif, many people here see porn as infidelity, including my wife. I think moving to SAA may get you some more helpful perspectives as well as good concrete advice.

wonderingif, I would consider it a betrayal if my H was going outside of our marriage to have any of his most important ENs met. SF is quite likely your H's most important EN - and he's satisfying those needs without you.

I'd say go over to SAA.

Ok. It's moved. Any input on what to do other than keep snooping for now?

Keep checking that keylogger and don't say anything to him just yet.

When will he be home? This is going to eventually have to be addressed, but for now collect info on the keylogger. You want to possess overwhelming evidence that this isn't a one-time kind of thing.

Be very sweet to him and work on filling his needs. Don't tip your hand that you are suspicious right now. I think you need more intel.

He is home on weekends and we are apart 3-4 nights per week. I will just continue snooping.

Oh and I've been working hard on meeting his ENs and not LBing. We both are feeling happier than we have in a long while.

During this time, while I'm working on cleaning up my side of the fence, should I be asking him to work on anything that bothers me?

Tonight we had a disagreement about one of our kids and how to handle some behavior. I have tended toward being too soft, and IMO he has been too harsh. I'd love to apply POJA to this, but he is resisting reading anything or trying POJA. He thinks that makes me the one in control I think. Not sure how, exactly, I've tried to explain that POJA means we are BOTH happy with the result. Doesn't seem to help.

We were discussing the problem and I remained calm. He used a DJ and I calmly pointed that out. He then went with an AO and I told him I wanted to discuss this calmly and respectfully. The AO didn't stop so I said I have to hang up now. I then texted him that I'd like to continue to figure out how to solve this problems, but I need to feel safe and respected to be able to do that. Was that OK?

Have continued the monitoring and have just found porn. Looks like he may have stopped doing it recently, after I told him again how hurtfull it is to me. I'll continue to monitor though.

I have requested an appt with Steve H. We've been doing a lot better since I've worked on my issues. Have mostly refrained from LB's (I'm still noticing some subtle DJs that I'm working on eliminating). We have more UA time, though not enough due to his travel. I was sad and upset yesterday because, though we'd had a great date night the night before, he was not interactiv with me much on Sunday. Said he needed time to recharge. I understand that. But I have noticed I start to get sad on Sunday because I know the next week brings separation again. So even if we had a great day Sat., I want more on Sun.

Tried to talk about it with dh but I became very weepy when he didn't want to discuss. Says he's exhausted, can only give me so much, and I'll never be satisfied. I brought up his favorite hobby, which he always makes time for. He said he needs that for relaxation. This sport causes him to get up early on one weekend day and be gone for hours. Then he's tired and naps while watching sports.

Anyway, I'm hoping SH can give me some direction here. I think my Taker has been coming out because I've been making the efforts, and when I do, dh sees that as my being happy and is shocked when I want more. He thinks MB is focused on changing men too much.

Snooping is a lack of trust you have for the other person. My husband snoops on me, and I'm not the one having an affair - he is !
That's OK, I'm not the one telling lies, I have nothing to hide.

Do follow your gut feeling. Most of the time it is right. Do what you have to do to get information.

It seems, from what I have read, that is isn't so much how they spend their time it's the fact that their time isn't with us. We are hurt, we need that positive attention right now more than then wallowing in their self pity.

I understand it is hard, hang in there.

I see he is back on porn tonight. I guess I'll just wait and see what SH has to say about all this, have an appt. Wed. morning.

Would a vet chime in please if you will and let me know if this thread is in the right place? Should it be on SAA because of porn?