Hi guys,

Been a LONG time since I was on. And I have a question that I knew this was the place I would get an intelligent answer.

Have an IRL couple whom I know and here is the situation.

An affair hit the marriage, and it did it's damage. Doesn't matter who committed it. Point is, H & W at this point can't stand each other and don't talk to each other unless it is to make biting comments.

They have a DS (14) and a DD (7) and are staying together for the sake of the kids. Meaning they don't want to ruin the childhood for the kids with the weekend swapping, the relative loss of income (once they establish two homes). They are essentially faking it for their sakes.

Which sometimes works out. Sometimes there are yelling and screaming matches until the kids are in tears. A lot of hatred between mom and dad.

Is this the right call? Suck it up for the sake of the children?

Or is this the wrong call? Meaning what kind of spouse are these kids going to become, based on the example of their parents? What will they consider "acceptable?"

And on a side note, is this how it was in the 50s when divorce was taboo?

NCW

Why don't you tell the couple about this site, and the fact that using MB and DrH's program can help them create a romantic marriage where both of their ENs are being met, and neither one is committing any LBs. It is important for their children, but more importantly, for themselves.

And I dunno about marriages in the 50s, but it wouldn't matter, we have MB now.

I did tell them about the site.

Sorta have to admit there is a problem before you will listen, though. :-(

Why don't you offer them one of the books? Maybe HNHN. Tell them that it could help them have a fulfilling marriage.

Hi NC!!!!!!!!!

Are you up to doing a little weekly counseling with them? Are they up to doing a little weekly counseling with you?

Cause yanno you + MB could beat 95% of counselors any day of the week.

What this couple needs is what any couple needs. Identify and meet top EN's. Avoid Lovebusters. Do that, and the love bank will grow, and they will fall in love again.

EP's are probably badly needed, too, and hopefully NC has already been established. (And I don't mean NC Walker, lol.) But that doesn't change the basic mathematical formula of
EN's Met - LoveBusters = Full Love Bank

In addition to HNHN, they need to read lovebusters. We've been going through similar stuff with my parents, though we are all grown. Have decided to take the tact that "you cannot do this, mom (or dad), this is disrespectful and rude."

But we have a family link that allows us to get away with a bit more...

CV

You can bring water to the horses but you cant make them drink.

I might go a bit double agent on this couple, without telling any porkies to encourage them to drink tho,

To the wayward, I would say the book (SAA) tells how an affair can sometimes happen when needs are being met outside the marriage (those waywards love to talk about needs!) so much that it creates the feeling of addiction. Tell them it also describes a way to get the same needs met inside the marriage and overcome the BSs resentment

To the BS I would say it is a great tool in understanding why someone cheats, how to predict it and prevent it happening again. Talk about the whole 'snooping is ok' thing and that they deserve 'just compensation' rather than forgiving the whole debt to suck them in.

Other than that, you may have to accept that some people dont want help.

Howdy, NC!! What they should do is stop fighting and use this program to fall in love again. It wouldnt' take long either. Why be miserable when you don't have to be?

You can also have a heart-to-heart with the husband. See if you can get him on board with single-handedly working toward some changes.

One great thing about MB is one spouse can get it going, even if the other isn't interested.

Neak is right. If you could get the husband to counsel with Steve Harley, Steve could help him persuade his wife to get on board. A little motivation is all it would take and then we could take it from there!

Of course I picked the husband because you will be able to talk with him about the R in ways you couldn't do with the wife.

From what I hear on Dr. Harley's radio show, this "third choice" is very common. And it's always a disaster.

But separating is not the "better solution." The better solution is to make the best of it by learning to fall in love with each other.

Dr. Harley recently opened up his years of radio show archives where we can all stream them online and share links to them. I wish I had some good links to share with you on this; I've heard him discuss it multiple times. You might write in and see if you can get him to address it, and then send a link to the show to your friends. In addition to the several other good suggestions.

You know, the radio show is really free counseling. If you can get one of your friends to write/call in (possibly after you write in first), you may be able to use that as the hook that gets one or both of them interested in a program of recovery. Get them a sample to listen to, get them a sample of Dr. Harley's writings (maybe try "How Dr. Harley learned to save marriages,"), tell them they get a free book if their question is on the show. There are lots of great incentives.

>waving<


Hellooooooooooooooooo

I hope YOU are well.

Pep ( remember me? )

In addition to that, Dr. Harley has said that the husband being on board with the program is often more of a guarantee of success. (Not sure if that statistic holds true in the case of affairs or not, though; it may just be for non-affair-struck marriages in trouble.)

Hello Pep and Mel and Neak.

Yes, I remember you all. You are like war veterans to me, you don't forget people you fought with. (In the side by side sense, not in the against each other sense). (Except maybe Mel, being a Texan I think that's a sign of love).

I am doing fine and well. Centered and happy. Busy raising the 3 DSs to the best of my ability. And they are all three doing excellent.

Back to the issue....

I got the books and know the program. My goal was more background on the 3rd choice and how it doesn't work. This couple is convinced this is the right thing to do and won't consider the other options.

Personally, I grew up next to a couple like this. Mom and dad HATED each other. They kept it civil, but the home was "cold" if that made sense. And the kids? Sought love where ever they could.

The daughter was sleeping with neighborhood men at 15 yrs old. Ugh. Because we all know there is a shortage of opportunistic [censored].

I don't think they have a chance as a couple. There is always hope, but there is near zero motivation. My concern is the kids at this point. I know the kids well through mine and, well, the kids have good hearts. Hate to see that wrecked.

And it is a small, rigidly religious area. Put the blinders on, plod along, and don't hear God. Can you believe I am the weird guy in the neighborhood? (Don't answer that). Makes no sense. So I am thinking more along the lines of "Look what you're risking...." to motivate them into either action to reconcile, or split and move on.

Heck I would have thrown in the towel. But the kids are good.

What's best for their kids (having parents that love each other and show them how to have a good marriage) may motivate them where nothing else will.

Otherwise, what are they teaching their kids but that marriage is some awful thing that you have to grit your teeth and endure.

SO GOOD to hear from you!!! And of course I can't believe you're the weird guy in the neighborhood.

Glad to hear you all are doing well!

Well, your friends won't last long like that. Once the hate and the fighting begins, it is like a snowball. The more they fight, the more they hate, and the more they hate, the more they will fight. What a stupid way to choose to live. They don't HAVE to live like that. Harley has turned around hundreds of marriages where they hated each other.

I've seen that kind of religious mindset. Marriage is a suicide pact and it's not about romantic love at all. In fact that may just be a trick that Satan plays on us. Even if it is a good gift from God, it's not something that'll last. Marriage is more about looking off into the distance while sitting next to each other than it is about looking into each other's eyes...

I don't like it.

If you could get a quote from Dr. Harley on it on the radio show, I'd be able to pass around a link to that show, and I'd love that. I'm just sayin'.

Sorry to hear about the children.

It wasn't all that way in the 50s though, although I will admit it was with my parents in the 60s. Grin and bear it.

But I remember many couples who were happy and in love when I was growing up, from way back in the day. I think its the media hype and bad news popularity contests that give us that stigma that all marraiges are doomed.

Yeah Markos I hate it too. Satan is in charge there I am sure.

Seems those good marriges had one thing in common, humility before God.

Is this couple approachable from a spiritual standpoint NC? at least for the Kids sake?

I know that my grandparents' marriage lasted nearly seven decades, and I know that it was not "grin and bear it." I do not know if they were in love or not, but I do know that they weren't just sticking out something they didn't like. He retired early and they spent almost all of their time together with the exception of a small handful of men-only or women-only church activities during the week. While they sometimes picked at each other, I will bet that they were making pretty good love bank deposits and were happy with their life together. I saw them up close -- I lived with them for years.

With a little more affection, and a little less picking, they might have been even happier, but I could tell they were not merely "toughing it out," and they definitely lived an integrated lifestyle that they enjoyed and were both enthusiastic about.

Just throwing that data point out there.

Hi NC,

Been a long time. You know most people really don't take well to education when you know they are wrong, and they know...nothing.

My favorite line is from Dr. Phil: "HOw is that workin fer ya?" My guess each would answer: "Not so well."

I suspect the kids KNOW that Mom and Dad are not doing well, and frankly the "staying for the kids" is whoooie! They are staying for themselves not the kids.

I would not try to force MB down either of their throats. I personally would take the line that as long as you are going to stay together for the kids, why don't the two of you learn to handle the situation better for the kids and themselves? Get them to buy into that, and then start to "train" them into changing their perspective about how to co-exist.

You know some "radical new ideas" that you create about say Oh! "stopping love busters". Or perhaps you could have an ephinany (sp) about helping each other (meeting needs). Or spending time together as a family and perhaps spending time enjoying life...together.

And then if you can convince them it is in their kids best interest to make their remaining years as a family better than they are now, then perhaps you might mention a...book. That's the ticket, they need a book. I think you know which ones.

Seems to me you need to consider this a fishing trip, select the right bait, present the bait in an alluring manner, and then reel them in.

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

OK. All good advice.

So they aren't MY kids. As much as it breaks my heart, you can't swoop in and do anything. They are the parents. They have to live with the choices.

The dad doesn't want to work on it. His job has him travel a lot and he is getting his ENs met outside. So to him, she may as well be a cheap housekeeper.

The mom was the victim of an A as a child. Her mom was a WS. So she can't comprehend forgiving him. I think she would move out, but the dad has financially trapped her.

So what I can DO is throw breadcrumbs. And just wish it were more.

Too bad real life isn't like the comic books.

Don't be sad, Neak. I've been around the world. There are kids out there who have to overcome far worse than this and do it.

In that vein.... Said on the news today that girls who watch "Reality TV":

a) gossip a lot more
b) get in fights more (When I was in HS in a rough town with a BIG population, I think I saw maybe 2 actual girl fights. Both of my HS age kids have seen more and they came through in a real small town, what's up with that?)
c) Obsess over their looks.

compared to girls who don't.