Hi everyone I am back with an update. I used to be on here years ago when my husband had his first affair which was completely devastating and I am still in �recovery� over. Things had been ok between me and hubby, or at least I thought it was for many years. I recently discovered that he has been having a month, to two month long affair with a woman nearly half my age. They have been meeting up to express their love all over this tiny town I live in. I feel like a fool every time I go out to buy groceries. I have had emotions all over the place from begging, to screaming, to denial that it would be ok, to now I am having thoughts of calling it quits and am not sure I want to be in the marriage anymore.

He says it�s broken off with her and I did to disclosure with her significant other. I called him up and told him most of what that they have been up to. There�s some weirdness in that situation but more on that later I guess the gist of it is this guy her SO I think is lying to me or she�s feeding him lies. I think that is the case but I am not sure, I am kind of confused about that situation.

It�s supposedly broken off and I have installed a tracking device on his phone that logs SMS MMS data and the works. It also works as kind of a lo jack so I know where he is at (unless it�s not getting the correct signal.) So far I am so freaked out and have so much anxiety that I can�t eat or sleep. I average about 2 to 3 hours of sleep a night even with Zquil.

He says he wants to make it work and go to counseling but I have my doubts and am not sure if this is really recoverable. I don�t know at this point if I can ever trust him with my heart again and I don�t think I deserved this.

I guess that�s about all I know right now. Plus I wanted to talk about some other stuff sort of a life update for anyone who knew me back then. Last year I signed up for a small community college and I am doing well. So far I have a perfect 4.0 even though they are lower level classes. I have a sense of accomplishment and I like school (I made the promise to my friends on marriage builders that when I felt well enough to go to school that I would; and I keep my word). I am also a new grandmother as my second oldest now has a son of his own.

A lot has happened that I would like to update later, but right now my mind is baked. I apologize if this don�t make perfect sense and I know I have probably broken every rule of writing and would make my English teacher ashamed lol.

Welcome back, Hopes.
Do you remember your previous posting name?

Hi
I do remember it but I don�t want to give it out for fear of being recognized. I fear that if someone from this town linked the two together it would make for some juicy reading and I am humiliated enough already from my husband kissing his girlfriend all over town in the public view. At least if I am recognized I don�t have to have them know all the juicy details of both affairs. I hope that makes sense.

Here's how to get up to speed quickly with Dr. Harley's plan of recovery. Look through and take note of the pieces of this plan that were not put in place the last time. You can't recover without them.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1001_infidelity0.html (video)
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=4&sublink=33 (30 articles you need to read through)

Not really, since you will need to expose this affair in order to recover. You can see from my sig that I have been through betrayal twice, too. If I had followed the MB plan the first time, the second one would have never happened. Don't repeat the mistake of protecting his secret second life. You have done nothing to feel humiliated for.

Welcome back to MB.

Please read this. Start Here First-Welcome Aboard

When are you going to do a full exposure?

I am sorry I can't do that. Without giving away too much this is kind of the situation. The OW SO is in sort of a position of authority and gossip spreads. Also if I am to be able to get a job and support myself I can't have this all on me.

Also when I exposed him to the OW SO it didn't go as I would have hoped. He said some stuff that was supposedly said about me during the affair. Things like I am crazy, that he basically is just my keeper. That hubby is putting up adds online for meeting women, And claims of some texts messages that I am not sure could have happened with that tracking software. That's how I thought he was lying and got angry cause I think I should have seen them texts right? I don't know. I don't know if he has another phone or some other way to text her.

Anyway I basically thought that the OW SO was lying to me or maybe the OW is feeding him lies. I got mad about it. Really I don't know who is lying to me. Hubby got mad at what the OW SO said and wanted his phone number. I am open and honest and gave it to him. There were some not so nice communication between them. So now I don't know if I can contact him anymore. I think the OW SO might be mad I gave hubby his phone number but I am very vulnerable and I don't want to keep secrets with the OW SO so I felt it best that all be laid out on the table. I am confused about this situation it makes my head hurt.

I am thinking of disclosing to his work but she don't work with him. He mostly texted from work to her and called her. I don't know what else he did while he was there. He says no hidden email accounts. I am not tech savvy enough to figure all this out.

all the more reason to expose. You want the truth out there.

I take it you didn't expose the first time around, either?

Maybe I am just crazy and he is my keeper. I wound up in a hospital twice. I am ashamed of that too.

Have you read any of the links we posted to you?

Have you been to your doctor for ADs? You need to be able to sleep. How are you eating? Exercising?

No I have not been to the dr. yet. I have to go to be checked for diseases anyway so I will talk to one then. I am sorry I fell apart there. I am a wreck. I have made the decision to divorce hubby. There's no fixing this and if all I get in this marriage is the feeling of being miserable I can do that all by myself.

I think its just a little too late. But thanks. I will tell him my decision and probably be moving on to the divorce forum.

No one will fault you for filing D because of his multiple affairs.

Have you told your children?

BrainHurts is right - nobody will fault you for getting away from this to protect yourself. If your husband were to really, really turn around and do the things that this program requires on his own, there is a chance that he alone could change your mind. But if he's not willing to do that, completely repentant, hat in hand, there is no way attempting to recover with him will be safe, and you have nothing to lose by filing for divorce.

No I have not told the kids yet. I am older now and most of my kids are grown. I have one still young one but he will be grown up before long.

I don't think there is any chance of recovery. The last affair I dragged him kicking and screaming the whole way. I tried a million books I tried everything.

I really loved him too and I thought we had something really special but to be blindsided again just as I try to stand up on my own two feet and make something out of myself. You see, every time I try to go to school he has an affair. Its like he don't want me to be anything but right here under his thumb.

I thought this was going be our fun golden years. Kids nearly all grown, time to have fun. Maybe go places together or go see the ocean or something. I didn't see this affair coming. I don't know what happened. I just cant allow him to do this to me again.

He's basically asking me to stay with him but I don't really want to because I cant let this happen to me again. I referred him to this site but I am not doing any heavy lifting and I really don't see this marriage working.

I figure I have a lot of work to do on my self even though I did change a lot since the last affair. I want to get my degree and be successful. I am tired of crawling on my belly to please a man. I want what he stole from me back. I want to be myself and to have confidence in myself.

Dr. Harley suggests not even trying to recover with a wayward husband who acts like that. It is just too hard on the wife.

I agree with markos.

Have you contacted a lawyer to protect yourself?

Hopes, what makes you think someone from your small town is going to recognize you on this site?

We ask about your previous posting name so we can see what, exactly, you did to recover your marriage from the last adulterous onslaught. If you don't wish to post your previous name, could you tell us when you were here last and what you did to recover your marriage from the last adulterous episode?

I am personally worried that you were here during a time when the posters were basically blogging and trading recipes. What I have read from more than a few years back from the time I've been here are posters who were using the site to gab and were totally missing Dr. Harley's very specific directions for recovering from an affair. Was this the case with you?

I understand that you don't want gossip to spread. This isn't about gossip - it's about truth. You need to expose the affair so the facts are out there. Do you understand the concept of exposure?

Exposure ended my H's affair THAT DAY.

Have you snooped on your WH's computer? Done any looking to see what he's up to? Tell us what you have done to confirm the extent of the affair.

That's entirely your choice, friend.

If you decide you want to try to recover your marriage, please let us know. We have tools here to kill affairs and recover marriages, but the choice is yours.

Let us know

And while you're in a state of flux, deciding whether or not to save your marriage, PLEASE do not tell your WH about this site. We are a resource for you.

No lawyer yet. I don't even have a job to afford one. I just found out about all of this last weekend. I have been pretty messed up since then. I don't have this sorted out yet.

I asked him for the house but I don't really care if I get anything. Its not much anyway. I am keeping one of the cars and he can have the other two. We are not rich so there isn't like anything to really fight over. Heck he can have all of it soon as I get a job and can leave. I really have not had any time or much of a clear head to sort this out.

I don't see him trying any stunts with taking away my youngest son. I know the law and he cant run out of state with him like he did last time. He's 15 and in another year he can make a decision who he wants to live with.

Hopes, I'm not sure why you're here. Do you want to save your marriage, or not? It sounds like you are plotting out your divorce.

How can we help you? What is your goal?

I don't know. I guess your right I should not be here. I don't really have any one to talk to except hubby so I came here. I am sorry if I did the wrong thing.

Also he does know I came here. He is still in the house and can see me. So basically its probably best I just go. I am sorry that I came here. Thanks for talking to me.

Dr. Harley suggests exposing the affair to try to get it to end regardless of whether you desire divorce or reconciliation. Especially if there are children.

Hopes, if you want help to save your marriage, please let us know.

I don't know what I want. I am so screwed up in the head right now. I thought everything was ok and the sob literally crawled out of my bed to go to a meeting (it wasn't a meeting it was a hotel room with a 27 yr old). I am old enough I could have changed her damn diaper. I feel like I wasted 20 years of my life now. I am old now. I gave him the best years of my life and for what? When I get old and not attractive he just replaces me? I feel really self conscious about how I look. I gained weight and I know I cant compete with a 27 yr old.

How about getting a Plan and sticking to it? Having a Plan to focus on will help you feel better.

Would you like to follow MB?

I cant handle this stuff. I cant sleep and I am going to have hubby to bring me to the hospital and have myself committed. At least until I can calm down enough to sleep.

I am sorry you are suffering so much. Your husband has done a terrible thing to you. If you want to divorce, no one here would tell you that you are wrong. MB can help you either way. Let us know how we can help you.

Hopes, I hope you are doing ok. Please come back and we can help you make a plan to get out of this sorry mess.

Hopes I am so sorry you are in such a bad situation. I think you need to get away from this man as soon as possible. The posters here can help you. Please keep posting.

Hopes, how are you?

I hope you come back and update us. We are here to help.

I am sorry I had to leave like that and I may as well just come clean. A while, (I am not sure how long) after my husband�s first affair I found out I have bipolar disorder. I never knew I had it until I went on a really bad manic episode and wound up in a hospital twice. I know all about my condition now, and if I am not sleeping for long enough I know it can happen again. To keep it from happening I went back to the hospital.

I am so ashamed of what happened during that manic episode that I would do about anything to keep it from ever happening again, including committing myself to a hospital. So now you know why I don't want the other affair linked. An illness like this has such a stigma that I don�t want people to know. It would be better if I had Leprosy instead of being bipolar. At least that�s a disease that is acceptable. I know if everyone knew that about me there is no way I would ever get a job.

Anyway I did get a chance to talk to a couple Psychiatrists while in the hospital and I think I have a plan now. I am not really able to deal with the affair and all that right now. I decided that I cannot make an empowered decision unless I am standing on my own two feet first. I plan on getting a job and an irl support system, and then I can look at the whole marriage objectively and make a decision. I told hubby we are going to be just friends for a while until such time that I feel able to look at everything and decide if I think I want to stay in this marriage or not.

I told the doctor there I installed a tracking device on my husband�s phone but then had second thoughts about it. Do I really want a man I have to track? What does that really say about my marriage? I cannot make him be faithful or give a crap about me, although he says he does love me and wants to make it work. Some of the nurses there said he may be a narcissist and you can�t fix that with counseling or pills. I don�t know if he is or not but I do know he does not know what the definition of love is.

I want hubby to go to individual counseling and I also am refusing to discuss our marriage or the affair with him unless there is a councilor present. He has a way of twisting my words and brings out the worst in me. He has already started it, but I tell him I don�t want to hear it and don�t want to talk about it. I am tired of being made out to be the crazy person. Yes I have a disorder but I am pretty normal if I am on my meds. I am at least normal enough that two psychiatrists released me even though they could have kept me there had they wanted. I have learned how to live with my illness and I am smart and I think I can do well on my own. I want to prove that to myself and I want to work on me much more than work on this marriage.

I am not worried about disclosure or any of the steps because, ya know, it just don�t feel right to me. I want my husband to be here because he wants to, not because I shamed him into it. To really care about me not just be here because he has no choice. Also I am tired of being the crazy wife that hides at home because I fear being around people because of my illness. I told this one tech lady at the hospital that I have no friends and she said she could not believe that, that I was likeable. That meant a lot to me.

Anyway I may not hang out here because I don�t think I am going to be able to follow the rules or steps of the book and that�s what this place is all about now. Thanks for listening.

I am so sorry you are back here. I have very close family members who struggle with MD, you know things like stress and no sleep can trigger an episode. Blaming yourself for MD is pointless.
I am glad that you know that taking care of yourself is a seperate thing than working on your M. You need a trusted doctor/nurse/counselor to help you navigate this shock.

Protect yourself, (+ kids) as best you can, first. Then decide what (if anything) you can do to save your M. This second A is very, very new to you.

take care,
BC

Let us know if you want to use this program and we can help. You are right, the forum is very focused on using Marriage Builders. We will be here to help when you are ready. Good luck and God Bless.

Regarding exposure, the purpose is not to shame.
The purpose of exposure is to bring it into the light of day.
Affairs thrive on secrecy and a false world.
When exposed the fantasy quickly crumbles.

Without exposure affairs can last for years.
Following exposure they usually die within 6 months

If you contacted Dr Harley, (a clinical psychologist) he would probably encourage you to enter plan B immediately.

Have you thought about emailing Dr Harley for advice? He is a national expert and you can share his response with your psychologist

Well thanks for the replies but I am going to go about this another way. This is the very last of the updates that I will ever be posting on this board and I even have second thoughts about posting this, but I think I will.

We just got back from Galveston, its been one long weird weekend but I am getting ahead of myself. Day one we got into a royal fight over a hidden email account of hubbys that I didn't know about. Its now resolved but hurt me a great deal. Anyway after that, we had a crazy thought, in some kind of moment of insanity, we would go see the ocean since I never have been.

We drove all day until about 2 am and then we watched the sunrise over the ocean. I liked it, it was pretty and smells funny and its very loud and windy. Not at all like what I expected but really, it was even better. I liked when, just before dawn, a little light hit the waves the water almost looked metallic, with inky black underneath the waves and white tops. It was stunning, I even liked the big wavy bridge with the paintings on the ends and the building in the water (pier 61 or whatever it is called).

This trip however was the trip from hell, if it could go wrong it did and to make a long story short I am seeing things a whole lot more clearly than I used to. Something happened on the way back that will go to the grave with me so don't even ask.

For several years I have been trying to be a better Christian and to really try hard to follow Jesus. Well now, I finally think I am starting to understand this whole Christianity thing. So this is how I am going to handle this affair and pretty much everything else. Hubby is forgiven, no questions asked, its a done deal. OW #1 and 2, both forgiven but I don't want to be friends yet, maybe later. My deceased father, forgiven, my family and anyone else who has hurt me are forgiven as well.

I cant, and wont, go into this, now or ever, but I am not going to sweat the small stuff anymore. Life is too short. I will say this, for now on I will be living my life way differently than before I am going to do my best to follow the Lord and live the way Jesus said for us to live.

Good luck folks. I wish everyone the best of luck.

Best wishes to you.

It is very unchristian to forgive without repentance.

In other words you are going to sweep it all under the rug AGAIN and pretend like you are being a "Christian." In truth you are an enabler of evil. Let us know when you decide to stop being an enabler and do something about this mess. We will be here.

You can forgive people today but they are still going to hurt you tomorrow.

Be "friends" later with OWs?

It sounds like you would rather just convince yourself that lies are true in order to avoid dealing with your reality. Good luck to you, but I've never seen someone so desperate to avoid the pink elephant in the room.

Seems like the denial reaction when a woman has a breakdown because she did Plan A for far too long.

Conflict avoidance causes more conflict. But I believe you already know this. All you are doing by following this plan is destroying your mental and physical health. There is a very high price for being an enabler. Like the scriptures tell us, have nothing to do with the works of darkness: Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

There are a bunch of Dr Harley radio clips on the subject of forgiveness on this thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=163853&Number=2518985#Post2518985

Please read.
Conflict Avoidance is the Kiss of Death

When you forgive, you have to really forgive. Or you will continue to wreck the relationship again and again. And yourself too.


The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.


Forgiveness unleashes JOY. It brings PEACE. It washes the slate clean. It sets all the highest values of love in motion. Christianity at its highest level.


In a sense, forgiveness is In forgiving, people are not being asked to forget. On the contrary, it is important to remember, so that we should not let such atrocities happen again. Forgiveness does not mean condoning what has been done. It means taking what happened seriously...drawing out the sting in the memory that threatens our entire existence.


It is not "forgive and forget" as if nothing wrong had ever happened, but "forgive and go forward," building on the mistakes of the past and the energy generated by reconciliation to create a new future.

I guess you have to find in your heart and mind how you define 'forgiveness'.

If by chance your definition is to act like it never happened, unfortunately,( Dr Harley has discussed this many times the long-term effects on a M) your emotional home (in your heart and mind) will rot from the floorboards up eventually collapsing your emotional home.

He goes into great detail about the dangers of sweeping things under the rug and going back to a crippled state of M as you were pre-A. Typically ends in disaster.

Using the proven formula of MB�s takes great courage. Doing the right thing sometimes takes great courage.

The price of not doing so? Well you will have to live that reality good or bad.

Unfortunately statistical success in your situation is greatly against you taking this path you are choosing.


I hope you can be the one in a million. Can you?

I have read other definitions of forgiveness that suggests that forgiving is not saying someone was right or wrong...not agreeing or disagreeing with what they have done�not just moving on acting like it never happened�more that Forgiveness is taking the bourdon of carrying around the weight of an offense off your shoulders to enable you to move forward in life without it weighing you down.

It is a horrible cross to carry when you ALLOW someone else to dictate your happiness in life.

Now, how you get to this point of taking it off your shoulders is another discussion. We all have to take our own path to find this peace.

For me, I will never forgive my FWW. She has complete ability to repay me for her horrible choices. However, I am taking the bourdon of the effects of the A on our family off my shoulders one brick at a time which that will take many years to complete.

edit: I am able to do this by using MB and my FWW making just compensation where we are creating a better M than we ever thought possible.

Dr Harley discourages forgiveness after an A. He uses the analogy that if you should not forgive a debt if someone has the ability to pay you back. In your case your WH has the ABILITY to pay you back. He should not be forgiven.

"I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.

In most cases, an offended spouse would be unwise to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money.

As it turns out, in every affair there is a way to adequately compensate the offended spouse that is good for the offender and good for the marriage. At first, the offended spouse may not want to be compensated. He or she may try to get as far away from the offender as possible to avoid further pain. But if the spouse asks for forgiveness along with a willingness to compensate, the offended spouse is usually willing to entertain the proposal."

Above is Dr Harley's recommendation on "forgiveness." http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

From the article that MelodyLane posted ^^^^^^^^�

Good heavens; please don't put the name of Jesus on that! Doesn't sound like what He'd advocate!

Jesus wants people to be hurt and abused, for life?

People who divorce for adultery are not Christian?

If you remain in this situation, you are going to wind up back in the hospital.

My mother's ruined her life because she kept going back to her insane crazy hateful wayward mother when people told her she needed to "forgive" and that a Christian should always see their mother. She ended up just as twisted and evil (and non-Christian, I might add) as her own mother.

You need to get some help to save you from the man who is repeatedly putting you in the hospital.

"Forgiving" him won't make him stop philandering.

I can't find anything here in Jesus's words in the Bible that would lead a person to conclude that "Christianity" means staying with an unrepentant philanderer:

http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-9.htm

He said the exact opposite!

"Do not be deceived, bad company corrupts good character." 1 Corinthians 15:33

That is the reason we are commanded to not associate with the works of darkness. That is how we end up sucked into the pit of darkness. When women remain with abusive husbands, they have nervous breakdowns and suffer post traumatic stress disorder. Satan dances when this happens. This poster has already suffered nervous breakdowns from associating with her evil, corrupt husband. This is a buy one get one free for the devil!

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

And passing out unwarranted, cheap "forgiveness" will not right that wrong. Nor will it feel to good when you are back in the mental hospital for associating yourself with darkness.

Hopes, if you insist upon using this excuse to keep from tackling this difficult issue, PLEASE keep your reasoning to yourself from irl folks. So many people are misguided and naive about what Christianity really means; please don't add to their confusion with your interpretation of Christ's teachings. There's too much of that out there now as it is.

When I was at the hospital I talked to this pastor. I told him I didn't know what to do. He said let God tell me to take a step and then wait on Him to tell me to take another step. He said that is how the Lord gets us to trust him. The first step is forgiveness and I also asked to be forgiven for all of my sins. I don't know what the next step is yet. I do want to go to a church so maybe that's it?

Plus I think the Lord is perfectly capable of handling my husband. Whatever he does is in full sight of the Lord and he will have to own it. Maybe not to me, but nothing is hidden from the Lord.

I can chase him around and worry till I make myself sick or I can give it to God and let him show me the way, and fix this. I am not really able to handle this right now so I choose to give it to God.

I gave my husband the option to leave several times. He says he wants to be here. I guess I will just have to see what happens.

So your plan is to stick your head in the sand and allow your husband to destroy your mental and physical health? That is not the Lord's plan. We showed you what the scripture says and you are ignoring it.

You took a step, you posted here. You got a lot of responses telling you this was down the wrong path. From good christians. Then you returned to post again. Perhaps that is God telling you something.

Your view of forgiveness is not real forgiveness. Perhaps you should listen.

Yes, the Lord is perfectly capable of handling your husband.

The LAST thing we here advocate is to chase your WH around, we told you to do the opposite.

Now listen to the advice given here.

God HAS shown you the way in the Bible. You are ignoring it. God will not force your husband to do anything against his will. He is not your puppermaster. God tells us in the Bible NOT to associate with the works of darkness. THAT is what you are doing by staying with this man. And you are using God as an excuse for your inaction.

As silly as this may sound the other day I was flipping through the channels and stumbled across Morgan Freeman, who portrayed God in the movie Evan Almighty, make this quote. I thought it was a very interesting quote and certainly something to consider.

Hopes do you think you are being provided an opportunity here?

I'm sorry, but the Lord is not telling you this. You are lying to yourself. You are listening to your heart and calling it listening to the Lord.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9
http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/17-9.htm

I am certain the Lord wants you to be a part of a church, because He wrote that in His Word for all to see. But I am equally certain that He does not demand that people sit around and suffer in adulterous marriages. Again, because He wrote that in His Word for us all to see!! It's in red letters. It came out of the mouth of Jesus.


This is the problem. You want to tell yourself you don't have to do anything to get out of the work involved. You need to run, and you don't want to do it, so you'll blame the Lord for your inaction.


God did show you the way - He led you to Marriage Builders, didn't He? And then you chose to ignore the help provided?

Have you heard the story of the man on his roof in a flood who prayed for help from God?

The way out is here; you just don't want to do it.


Of course he said this. He LIKES getting to have his cake and eat it too. He likes doing two or more chicks at the same time. Any man would, if he could get away with it.

It will not recover your marriage. He will just proceed more boldly, while you end up in the hospital.

Has this pastor actually saved any marriages?

Why would you listen to this pastor if he hasn't saved any marriages and is out and out contradicting Jesus? Jesus did not say to forgive your adulterous spouse. He just didn't say that!

I am certain the Lord wants you to know that your sins did not cause this situation. It was caused by your lousy husband's sins. The husband who is putting you in the hospital by his sins. The husband who will put you in the hospital again by his sins. The husband that Jesus said you don't have to stay with.

But if you'd rather listen to a pastor who knows nothing and can't even get what Jesus said right, just because it makes it where you don't have to do anything, be my guest.

If you're standing in the road and a truck is about to mow you down and your friends and Jesus Christ shout "run" and a pastor says "stay where you are and see the glory of God!" are you going to listen to the pastor? That's your choice of course, but doing nothing is going to get you killed.

This place is all about shouting "run" when a train's about to run over you, instead of being an enabler while people plan their own destruction.

We don't want to see people hurt.

You did not answer my questions:


Do you really believe that people who divorce for adultery are not Christian? I would like an answer to this. Not only are you denying the teaching of Jesus so that you don't have to do anything and can stand there and let the truck hitting you, your position is very unmerciful towards those who are in trouble - you believe the Lord wants people to stand around and be hurt, when He said the opposite!

At the very least, even if I can't persuade you to get the help the Lord says you are entitled to, I can show other people who are listening that this is not what the Lord said, so they don't make the same mistake. I think it's very irresponsible for people like that pastor to go around contradicting Jesus and encouraging people to "forgive" adultery, when Jesus said nothing like that at all. And I believe it's irresponsible of you to do the same thing, just to make yourself feel better in your poor decision. Other people are watching and listening to you and will use what you say as they make their decisions. They need to know what Jesus really said about adultery, because sitting around in that trauma is the worst thing that could happen to any human being.

Do you want other people to wind up in the hospital constantly while they put up with adultery in their marriage and call it "Christian"?

No Markos I don't think people who divorce for adultery are not Christians. The Bible is clear that is a reason for divorce. However back to that experience I had on the way back from Galveston. I don't completely think this is entirely my husbands fault. In fact there is one out there that came to steal, kill, and destroy. I firmly believe that it was some sort of attack and my husband was not strong enough. Now I am worried about him. He is loosing weight and is really down about this. I am ok though Jesus fixed my heart. I don't hurt anymore. I just listen to my music and it makes me feel better. Its like praising Him healed me.

I went to a church but it wasn't a good fit. I agreed with some of the stuff he said. I liked that he said don't let old sins keep you from growing as a Christian. That when God forgives your sins are as far as the east is to the west. That was a good message for hubby. However one part of it didn't sit right with me so I had to leave. It might be just me and I am not a theologian but it seemed wrong.

I don't know if going to a church right now is the right thing for me. Its been a lot and I don't feel exactly ready for prime time yet. Plus I always had problems with churches I like some of what they say but disagree with other things. I kind of took bits a pieces of what everyone said and made my own version.

Anyway sorry if my decision upset you. That was not my intent.

Hopes

Hopes-Do you believe God makes people do things or not do things?

I hear excuses and denial, it is not going to get you anywhere.

God doesn't just forgive, you must be repentant. Catholics have confession. God has accountability.

Not letting your old sins wear you down, is not whalloping in the past. LEARN from your mistakes and move forward.

Your husband made a choice, not once but twice. That is not weakness. That is not learning from your mistakes.

I'm also curious if you are aware of what being a Free Moral Agent means in the eyes of god and how this would apply to how god interacts with people.

I know it will sound nuts but I mentioned that was the trip from hell, well it was. First we are going thru Oklahoma City in bad traffic and then the tornados hit. I am driving that rental car as fast as I can in that kind of traffic. We were maybe 20 to 30 min ahead of them. On the radio they are screaming something about them being rain wrapped. It was pretty stressful.

OK we get to Houston finally. We are almost to the bridge and for some reason they closed the whole freeway. This is like 1 am or so? Hardly any traffic and so we have to exit the freeway and those people do not know how to build an off ramp. Hubby has to use the rest room and suddenly there�s a ton of traffic zipping all over the place, these people will not let us over so he can find a bathroom.

Finally we get to the bridge and to the island. We were going watch the sunrise on the beach and then go back to our room. Somehow the bank card now does not work. All we have is the cash on hand and they gave our room away. No other rooms to be had that are not a king�s ransom. Oh I almost forgot, I walked probably 10 feet onto that beach and a piece of glass lodged itself into the inside of my Crocs and cut the bottom of my foot. I can�t get the glass out of my shoe so now I am shoeless in the dark trying to enjoy the beach while my foot is bleeding all over.

So we watch the sunrise and start looking for a room. We are very tired by now. We drive 250 miles away from the beach before we find a room in our price range because the card still isn�t working. We get into this room and hubby says something is biting him. I freak thinking bed bugs so now we can�t stay there either. More driving until hubby can�t drive no more. He pulls over and sleeps for a few hours in the car.

Later we stop for gas and to use the restroom. People already think I am nuts so why not? I either found the only haunted bathroom in Texas or something else was in there and I don�t believe in ghosts. So we drive and drive and drive and all a sudden the bank card works now. It still works fine, just quit working long enough to ruin the closest thing to a honeymoon we ever got.

Then there is this, I love my husband dearly for who he is on the inside. He�s not a young guy, he�s 45 bald and more salt than pepper, I love him and I wouldn�t have him any other way. Anyway so a 27 yr old throws herself at a bald grey haired old man? It can�t be because of money because we don�t have any. Yeah and Brad Pitt is gonna show up here on bended knee to profess his love for me (sarcasm). This whole thing has been a bit too weird. Nothing makes sense so I am thinking it might be some sort of satanic attack.

I am not saying he is innocent but I do think there's something to this. Am I wrong?

Here's what God says about that:
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.1 Corinthians 10:13

Stop making excuses for your husband. Satan certainly tempted him, but he did not drag him to sin kicking and screaming. Your husband CHOSE to give in. Your husband, and your husband alone, is responsible for his actions.

What relevance does this have to your situation, Hopes?

20Yr

I can say yes and no. God did sorta make Jonah do what he wanted because he had him swallowed up by a fish. But for the most part No I don't think he makes people do things. I am not sure what you mean by your other statement.

Maybe I am in denial I don't know. Its all so much right now. I probably have to talk to my new Dr. because I keep getting these strange thoughts about all this but they cant be right. I am thinking it must be my illness but just coming out differently than last time. Sorry if I cant explain it better its a little hard to explain.

Yes

You are ignoring humans free will. Did he have a gun to his head?

You are driving yourself crazy with this, this is NOT healthy!!!!! Even the sanest of people are driven beyond by betrayal.

Even if he was 'weak' for a moment, this is at least the 2nd time you know of. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Insanity: doing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Maybe your right. I just wish I had someone to talk to irl that don't have the keys to an institution to lock me up in. If my kid ever comes back with my car I might go to the park and clear my head. That's another thing. My kids are almost all grown but they live with me and are making me crazy. They are lazy and don't listen or help out. They backtalk and I am telling oldest son tonight he's got 6 months and by then he needs a place of his own. He is 25 and I am really having trouble dealing with him. Sometimes I feel like running out of here screaming and never coming back.

Your right about the Church, I am going to force myself to go to a different one. I went there before a long time ago They had good music. Kind of Christian pop music. Anyway I can least try it I guess. It was in the middle of town, I just got to remember which one it was.

Why isn't your 25 son on his own? Why are your adult children living with you?

Hopes, why don't you talk to Dr. Harley of Marriage Builders?

mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

He used to run a large chain of mental health clinics in Minnesota before he did Marriage Builders. He dealt with a really, really wide variety of situations.

Hopes, I encourage you to visit lots of churches till you find the right one. Remember though that your focus is not on the people there, people will always fail. God never fails. So yes, it is important to find a church where the pastor and the flock have the same ideology as you do, but at the end of the day you go there to worship God, to hear from his word and to renew your spirit.

How about this? I am new at this but Matthew chapter 5:11 and 5:38-48 don�t that say the way I am trying to handle this is OK? I heard a preacher say the only way to conquer evil is with good is that wrong? If I am understanding this right, I should pray for both OWs and for hubby too. Maybe it�s not persecution but it sure feels that way. What do you call it when a person purposely hurts someone, knowingly and willingly? I don�t know what to call it but I think that�s what they did. I am going to pray for them all anyway.

Markos

I already have a Psychiatrist, I just got a new one and will be seeing him this month. I had two different ones when I was in the hospital.

That is taking the bible out of context. Yes, you should have mercy and not persecute or take revenge. It doesn't mean you have to take the abuse. Those things are quite different.

Pray that God does what ever He deems right to the others. You conquer evil with good, but within yourself. You have no control over others.

WOW! This shouldn't be a religious debate! Plain and simple your using the Devil as the culprit to YOUR WH's poor boundaries, poor choices and lack of care towards his wife (you). It's not his fault its a attack isn't going to change his behavior. However, you letting him do it time and time again makes you an enabler. No matter what perspective you look at it. From your stay in the hospital and your actions with your children enabling has become the normal behavior for you. Now its taking its toll on your health just like Dr. Harley has stated numerous times on his radio show. You planned A long enough I implore you to plan B before damage to your health is irreversible. I only have a 4 yr old DS and its hectic at times but your children are grown! The US Navy is hiring get him out of the house! Have him sign a contract three months and he's gone no ifs ands and buts. I think he knows your an enabler and is taking advantage of you which is sad. I don't know how long you had to deal with WHs actions but I'm sure your son picked up a thing a two from him and how you handled it (not good habits I assure you!) I'm positive Dr. Harley will recommend Plan B. your husband only showed concern when you were ill. It's only a matter of time he goes back to his old tricks. I'm sure you enjoyed the attention but its only fleeting. I will pray for you.

Taking holy books out of context are big excuse makers for some people and lead to wars. Please, follow the MB program for your health and sanity. God gave us free will!

Dr. Harley is free.

Abuse.

It doesn't sound like these people are encouraging you to do what you need to do to protect yourself, though. Dr. Harley can offer you an invaluable second opinion.

You are misusing scripture so that you can continue to enable your husband's abuse.
Turn the other cheek? Of course -- do not return evil with evil!
Jesus is not telling you to stay with your abusive husband and let him destroy you emotionally and mentally.
Love your enemies and pray for them? Of course -- you can easily do that in Plan B.

Jesus never told wives to sit around and be destroyed by their husbands. He knew, long before Dr. Harley, what adultery would do to your mental and physical health. And he gave you an escape -- divorce.

Notice what the Bible says Paul did in Damascus when he was persecuted: he escaped by night, let down over the city wall in a basket.

Escaping is Biblical. Standing around for persecution, abuse, and death is not something required.

Sure - do it from a safe location where they can't hurt you and put you in the hospital any more, okay?!

One Scripture doesn't "cancel" another. Jesus does not require you to stay with a man who is a serial philanderer.

Letting other people destroy you is not Godly.

Jesus already paid the price for you on the cross. You don't need to add personal continued suffering in your own life.

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/40-2.htm

Quit standing around on the front lines being hit by artillery, Hopes! The time of warfare is over!

So why would God permit this for other people but expect you to do something different? You totally missed my point. All your Bible reasoning comes from totally ignoring what Jesus actually said here.


See, you totally ignored my point in your haste to get back to telling what you had to tell. You are not listening to the people who want to help you.


Again, totally missing my point. I'm not upset, and who cares if I am? We here posting to you are concerned for you because we know that you are volunteering to continue to live through trauma and go right back to the hospital soon. We would not be your friends if we did not let you know LOUDLY and INSISTENTLY what a tremendous mistake this is.

It's not that your decision is "upsetting." It's that it is DANGEROUS to YOU! We are standing back a little distance from your situation and can look at it objectively and let you know you don't have to do this and in fact you shouldn't do this.

All I can say is, keep your hospital bags packed, because apparently you've decided you want to continue with this lifestyle that's destroying you. And yes, I guess I am a little emotional about the fact that one of God's children would choose that willingly.

By the way, you don't get extra rewards in heaven for signing up for extra needless suffering here on earth. I know some people teach something like that, but the Bible teaches Jesus already paid the price, so I figured I'd better mention it.

Sticking around for continued trauma and more hospital trips is not going to "overcome evil with good." It is just a waste.

Hopes, much of your posting here confuses me.

You are making a lot of scriptural references. It is confusing in the sense that I am unsure if you are trying to use the bible to justify your H�s behavior and also how you are choosing to deal with this situation.

Do you live all of your life by the principles you are quoting here? Or, is it just convenient to use the bible and scriptures as a crutch in this isolated part of your life to justify burying your head in the sand?

Very confusing.

It will be an impossible sell to most of us here to use the bible and scriptures to justify your H�s actions and your choices now. It isn�t going to fly.

By the way, all of Dr Harley's works come strictly from a Christian based standpoint. What do you not understand about this?

He has a firm understanding of the bible and has customized his teachings around scriptural principles.

His ACTION steps for folks in your situation take all of these things into consideration.

I might call, if hubby wants to as well. He did do one of the things I asked him to do today. He got himself an IC to figure out why he does these things. I want to feel safe in the relationship so knowing why he does this stuff would help to make me feel better.

I did think of one thing though. There are examples of people who were not repentant being forgiven. When they nailed Jesus to the cross he said, "father forgive them for they know not what they do." Isn't that the point though? We are supposed to try to be as much like Him as we can, even when its hard and even when it don't make sense to others.

I do think now though hubby is repentant. I believe that he has seen the error of his ways and there might be something left to work on. Thanks again

Hopes

That typically doesn't help. (Except for the IC. It will give her an income for a long time.)

Why know why he does it. He does it because he doesn't have boundaries to stay away from women.

There, saved you the cost of the counselor.


You will never feel safe as long as he continues to play chicken and do things that make him at high risk for having an affair.


Does it make you feel better knowing that he does this stuff because he continues to spend time with other women, and he is continuing to do the exact same things that cause this? Shouldn't that make you feel worried???


I see. You are going to continue to desperately find an excuse in Scripture to ignore everything we've told you. So you're not really listening to anybody here, and there's nothing we can do to help you.

Keep you hospital bags packed.

Trying to justify again?

Asking for forgiveness, is not receiving forgiveness.

Sad but true statement and I totally agree.

Well to chime in on the forgiveness topic. Can you give another example of someone being forgiven without being repentant? Christ dying on the cross was the ultimate sacrifice, so we wouldn't have to pay for our sin. Pine is spot on 100%, We are already forgiven, but we have to receive that forgiveness, by asking. "To as many as RECEIVE him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God"
ALL God's promises for forgiveness to us are accompanied by the conditionality of repentance, of turning away from our sin.

True forgiveness = reconciliation.

Matthew 18 gives the procedure for dealing with someone who who has sinned against us.

1. Talk to them about it
2. If they persist bring a couple friends and talk to them about it
3. If they persist, bring it to the church.
4. If they persist treat them as a heathen and a tax collector.

Jesus himself advised us to get away from people who continue to abuse us. In MB terms, the procedure is confront, expose, expose further, plan B. What do you think?

If everyone is "forgiven" against their will, then why does the Bible speak of HELL? There would be no need of hell if God forces his forgiveness on everyone whether they want or need it.

And why would the Bible counsel kicking someone out of church if they don't repent? That makes no sense if everyone has cheap forgiveness forced on them.

Hopes,
Jesus forgave many in his time here. But he often said to them, "Go and sin no more."

Many of the sinners Jesus healed came to him seeking His medicine.

Forgiveness requires reconciliation as Betrayed points out. And reconciliation requires of your husband:
1) An examination of conscience (taking inventory of his sins)
2) Coming clean with you and admitting all of them.
3) Showing true remorse for them.
4) Praying and asking for forgiveness.
5) Taking actions that prevent those sins from happening again. In your husband's case this would be him not committing adultery again, and following your EP's.

Reconciliation is a model that has been used by the Church since the time of Jesus. It works when applied correctly. But your husband has to be willing to do it.

Yes, you can forgive. But reconciliation won't happen unless he owns his mistakes and takes the right actions to atone for them.