Marriage Builders
This is good read on Obama's father political leanings. I dont even imagine for one second the Dems would be brazen enough to do this
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=303952499910291

Quote
"What is more important is to find means by which we can redistribute our economic gains to the benefit of all," said the senior Obama, a Harvard-educated economist. "This is the government's obligation." The "means" he had in mind were confiscatory taxes on a scale that redefines the term "progressive taxation."

"Theoretically," he wrote, "there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9610.html

Quote
But Kenya expert Raymond Omwami, an economist and UCLA visiting professor from the University of Helsinki who has also worked at the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, said Obama senior could not be considered a socialist himself based solely on the material in his bylined piece.

Omwami points out that the elder Obama’s paper was primarily a harsh critique of the controversial 1965 government document known as Sessional Paper No. 10. Sessional Paper No. 10 rejected classic Karl Marx philosophies then embraced by the Soviet Union and some European countries, calling instead for a new type of socialism to be used specifically in Africa.

The government paper rejected materialism (i.e., “conspicuous consumerism”), outlined the nation’s goals to eradicate poverty, illiteracy and disease, and also laid out important decrees regarding land use for economic development. Obama senior’s response covers these issues, frequently focusing on the distribution of real estate to farmers. Since most Kenyans could not afford farmland in line with market forces established earlier by white British farmers, the elder Obama argued that strong development planning should better define common farming space to maximize productivity and should defer to tribal traditions instead of hastening individual land ownership.

In other words, Obama senior’s paper was not a cry for acceptance of radical politics but was instead a critique of a government policy by Kenya’s Ministry of Economic Planning and Development, which applied African socialism principles to the country’s ongoing political upheaval.
This is the sperm-donor father...the one that had no hand in raising his son, right?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27324419
Never underestimate the stupidity of "Joe Six Pack"...Dubya did get elected a second time, after all.
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Never underestimate the stupidity of "Joe Six Pack"...Dubya did get elected a second time, after all.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. The smartest political party on the planet, was beaten, TWICE by a man they said was not very bright.

And now some want to shift the blame to the voters?

Maybe you mis-underestimated him.

Tell me, who had better grades in school, Bush, Gore or Kerry?

I think Bush had the highest GPA of the three. Yet Democrats want to call him stupid, and call the voters stupid, but appear unwilling to come to grips with losing twice to someone they claimed wasn't as smart as the typical Democrat.

That is the very arrogance that hurts the Democrats.

How well do you think the strategy of calling the voters stupid will work?

How does it make the Democrats look to be beaten twice by someone they try to paint as intellectually inferior.

If you don't agree, then fine, don't agree. But anytime I see someone call their opponent stupid, I have to wonder why they resort to the low skill tactic of a personal attack instead of providing a sound reason to support their candidate.

Calling the other guy stupid just means that you don't have anything good to say about your own guy, so you have to tear down the other guy.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...s_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/

SAT Scores:

Bush 1206
Kerry 1190

If I recall correctly, Gore had a 2.2 GPA from Harvard and Bush a 2.35 from Yale.

So while I earned a better GPA than either of them on a dual degree path at a top 25 university, neither of them are drooling vegetables.

Maybe I should be president. Just write me in.

My name is "None of the Above"
I didn't say Bush was stupid. He was smart enough to get elected a second time, after doing an atrocious job the first time around.

Of course I blame the voters. They....get this....voted for him.

[obvious statement]I don't work for the Obama campaign. Anything I have to say will have zero impact on the election.[/obvious statement]
Oh goodie, we're off to get another thread locked... wink .

Originally Posted by Krazy71
Never underestimate the stupidity of "Joe Six Pack"...Dubya did get elected a second time, after all.

Yup. Scary stuff. And 'ole Sarah is still out there blabbering today that a VP's role is to be "in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Someone better tell her that all a VP can do is cast a tie-breaking vote, not to "get in there and make policy".

AGG
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Oh goodie, we're off to get another thread locked... wink .

Originally Posted by Krazy71
Never underestimate the stupidity of "Joe Six Pack"...Dubya did get elected a second time, after all.

Yup. Scary stuff. And 'ole Sarah is still out there blabbering today that a VP's role is to be "in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Someone better tell her that all a VP can do is cast a tie-breaking vote, not to "get in there and make policy".

AGG

Tell THAT to [censored] Cheney.
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
Yet Democrats want to call him stupid, and call the voters stupid, but appear unwilling to come to grips with losing twice to someone they claimed wasn't as smart as the typical Democrat.

Actually, that is in fact how it works - like tends to vote for like, so stupid tends to vote for stupid. No wonder European papers asked the day after Bush's reelection how can 52 million Americans be so stupid.

Quote
Calling the other guy stupid just means that you don't have anything good to say about your own guy, so you have to tear down the other guy.

Well, the good thing about the "own" guy is that he's smart.

Since you are comparing GPAs, why not back away from the old and look at the new - shall we compare GPAs of McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden?

AGG
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Since you are comparing GPAs, why not back away from the old and look at the new - shall we compare GPAs of McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden?

AGG
Sure, if you have the info, throw it out here. Citing your sources, of course.
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Oh goodie, we're off to get another thread locked... wink .

Originally Posted by Krazy71
Never underestimate the stupidity of "Joe Six Pack"...Dubya did get elected a second time, after all.

Yup. Scary stuff. And 'ole Sarah is still out there blabbering today that a VP's role is to be "in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Someone better tell her that all a VP can do is cast a tie-breaking vote, not to "get in there and make policy".

AGG

Tell THAT to [censored] Cheney.

LOL

I thought the left believed the Constitution is open to interpretation, ya know a "Living Constitution"?
Originally Posted by smidgen
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Since you are comparing GPAs, why not back away from the old and look at the new - shall we compare GPAs of McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden?

AGG
Sure, if you have the info, throw it out here. Citing your sources, of course.

Aw, come on...

Biden is much smarter than Palin. He knows the three letter word that describes what the activity of the Vice President if elected, and that’s “jobs,” Spelled “J” - “O” - “B” - “S”, jobs.

LOL
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
I thought the left believed the Constitution is open to interpretation, ya know a "Living Constitution"?

Yeah, but last I heard Palin was not on the Left grin. Besides, few administrations made as much of a mockery of the Constitution and its balance of powers as Bush/Cheney did.

AGG
Actually, the Vice-President does have a little more authority than to just cast a vote in the event of a tie.

From http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a5.html#Q86

Quote
The Vice President is the President of the Senate, and as such, has the power to preside over any session of the Senate. I'm not exactly sure how powerful that makes him, though the Rules of the Senate do grant the President a lot of procedural power. He does only have one opportunity to vote (to break a tie); and he is the presiding officer in any impeachment except that of the President.

In the VP Debate, Joe Biden said the same thing you said...that the only role a VP has in the Senate is to cast a tie-breaking vote. In terms of procedura, Sarah Palin was correct in her definition the VP's role as President of the Senate.
Originally Posted by smidgen
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Since you are comparing GPAs, why not back away from the old and look at the new - shall we compare GPAs of McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden?

AGG
Sure, if you have the info, throw it out here. Citing your sources, of course.

GPAs have not been publicized. But we do know that McCain graduated 894th out of 899 from the Naval Academy, while Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law.

AGG
Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
In terms of procedura, Sarah Palin was correct in her definition the VP's role as President of the Senate.

No one disputes VP's title of President of the Senate, which is considered to be a ceremonial title (think Queen of England). The joke is that she said that a VP can "get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Not.

AGG
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Biden is much smarter than Palin.

Agreed.

He may not be able to count, but at least he can spell. Last dimwit VP we had thought potato had an "e" at the end. At least Biden won't make that mistake grin.

AGG
That's assuming that any further plagiarisms on Biden's part are of works with no spelling errors! laugh
I personally know of someone who graduated as valedictorian of his high school class, but whose ACT score was too low for him to get into anything but a technical school at a junior college. He took the ACT test again, and did no better.

Of course, I happen to know that he cheated his way through high school because I saw him doing it. For that matter, so did the salutatorian.

Oh...and the valedictorian is not really a stupid guy; he's actually done fairly well for himself. His problem in school, I think, is that he was too involved in sports and just didn't study. I don't know why he didn't do better on the ACT, unless he maybe is the type to "freeze up" during a test. IF that is true, it may be why he felt compelled to cheat on tests.

The salutatorian...well, he was a lil' snot, but his snottiness didn't do him much good in life when it came to his ability to hold a job.
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
In terms of procedura, Sarah Palin was correct in her definition the VP's role as President of the Senate.

No one disputes VP's title of President of the Senate, which is considered to be a ceremonial title (think Queen of England). The joke is that she said that a VP can "get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Not.

AGG

You don't think the VP might talk to senators and try to "get in there with the senators and make alot of good policy changes"?

Biden does.

BIDEN: “I hope one of my roles as vice p...respected on both sides of the aisle.”
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
In terms of procedura, Sarah Palin was correct in her definition the VP's role as President of the Senate.

No one disputes VP's title of President of the Senate, which is considered to be a ceremonial title (think Queen of England). The joke is that she said that a VP can "get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Not.

AGG

You don't think the VP might talk to senators and try to "get in there with the senators and make alot of good policy changes"?

Biden does.

BIDEN: “I hope one of my roles as vice p...respected on both sides of the aisle.”

Nothing wrong with trying to implement the Pres's policies through Congress. But you won't Biden thinking he's "in charge of the Senate", like Palin does.

AGG
Quote
Nothing wrong with trying to implement the Pres's policies through Congress.

Then why did you say there was?

Quote
The joke is that she said that a VP can "get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Not.
Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
That's assuming that any further plagiarisms on Biden's part are of works with no spelling errors! laugh

laugh .
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Quote
Nothing wrong with trying to implement the Pres's policies through Congress.

Then why did you say there was?

Quote
The joke is that she said that a VP can "get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Not.

Why not use my (and Palin's) complete quote?

Quote
Sarah is still out there blabbering today that a VP's role is to be "in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes".

AGG
Quote
Why not use my (and Palin's) complete quote?

Why would you think I should use your COMPLETE quote from a post of yours I DID NOT QUOTE AT ALL???

Furthermore, why would you think I would need to address the part of your argument that Lady Clueless had already shown was faulty???



Why not use my complete quote?

Your editted version of my quote--->
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Biden is much smarter than Palin.


My COMPLETE quote---->
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Aw, come on...

Biden is much smarter than Palin. He knows the three letter word that describes what the activity of the Vice President if elected, and that’s “jobs,” Spelled “J” - “O” - “B” - “S”, jobs.

LOL


Originally Posted by rwinger
This is good read on Obama's father political leanings. I dont even imagine for one second the Dems would be brazen enough to do this
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=303952499910291

Quote
"What is more important is to find means by which we can redistribute our economic gains to the benefit of all," said the senior Obama, a Harvard-educated economist. "This is the government's obligation." The "means" he had in mind were confiscatory taxes on a scale that redefines the term "progressive taxation."

"Theoretically," he wrote, "there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed."

Thanks for the article.

His father was right, once we embrace the idea that the tax system ought to be used as a means to "spread the wealth" there is nothing that can stop the government from taking everything we own.
C'mon, I wouldn't care if Biden got a 4.0 in college...he went tot the University of Delaware! Around these parts...the school is but ten minutes from my home, it is considered nothing but a party school for underachievers that couldn't get into some of the top flight schools in Philadelphia. Heck, my son's mom graduated from there and I know she is far from the brightest bulb in the pack.

Quote
Biden graduated 506 out of 688 in his class

not an easy task at the University of Delaware!
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Oh goodie, we're off to get another thread locked... wink .

Originally Posted by Krazy71
Never underestimate the stupidity of "Joe Six Pack"...Dubya did get elected a second time, after all.

Yup. Scary stuff. And 'ole Sarah is still out there blabbering today that a VP's role is to be "in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes". Someone better tell her that all a VP can do is cast a tie-breaking vote, not to "get in there and make policy".

AGG

Keeping in mind that she was talking to a 3rd grader.....how would YOU explain this line...

VP can do is cast a tie-breaking vote.......

to a 7-8 year old. I have a 9 year old and she wouldn't have understood that explaination but understands the explaination that Sarah Palin used.

Lets hear how you would explain this to a 3rd grader, keeping in mind that YOU have time to think about your answer and aren't under constant media and democrat scrutiny





***edit***
Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Oh goodie, we're off to get another thread locked... wink .

rotflmao
Originally Posted by JoJo422
***edit***

JoJo - if you'd like an example of this sort of "incomplete quoting" in order to try to smear Palin, check out the CNN interview of Sarah Palin by CNN "reporter" Drew Griffin.

Not only did he "parse" the New Republic article, he COMPLETELY changed the intent of the article to "make it appear" that "conservatives" thought Palin was "too dumb."

This sort of thing has been TYPICAL of the Left in their zealousness to get Obama elected BY ANY MEANS. The truth does not matter to them. According to Obama's philosophy, which the mainstream media heartily seems to endorse, "The end justifies the means." And their "end" is to get Obama elected by any means (lying, voter registrations fraud, voter fraud, refusal to examine anything negative about Obama, etc.).

He, Obama, is a Socialist (by definition) and believes, by his own admission, in "income redistribution" (the same as his father), Government takeover of the healthcare system, giving money from hardworking taxpayers to the approximately 40% of people who PAY NO TAXES, and the list goes on and on.


And while we are at it, have you seen the list of supporters for Bill Ayers?

Check out the names Ward Churchill and Rashid Khalidi (Columbia University). Anyone with an ounce of sense can begin to add 2+2 and SEE exactly what Obama's beliefs ARE, regardless of the "different" things he SAYS to whatever group he happens to be in front of.

And then there's Pennsylvania and Murtha. You know, that same Murtha who accused our military of all sorts of "dastardly" and "heinous" atrocities in Iraq (and still has not apologized for them). NOW Murtha shows the TRUE liberal left "opinion" of Pennsylvanians. They are racists, they are "rednecks." Yep, I guess so, after all, according to Obama they DO "cling to their guns and religion."

By the way, I wonder why Obama continues to refuse to release his thesis paper from Columbia, or anything else related to his time in various schools for that matter.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Originally Posted by rwinger
This is good read on Obama's father political leanings. I dont even imagine for one second the Dems would be brazen enough to do this
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=303952499910291

Quote
"What is more important is to find means by which we can redistribute our economic gains to the benefit of all," said the senior Obama, a Harvard-educated economist. "This is the government's obligation." The "means" he had in mind were confiscatory taxes on a scale that redefines the term "progressive taxation."

"Theoretically," he wrote, "there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed."

Thanks for the article.

His father was right, once we embrace the idea that the tax system ought to be used as a means to "spread the wealth" there is nothing that can stop the government from taking everything we own.

The sky isn't falling Marsh. Obama is just trying to balance what the country gains through taxation versus what it spends. Would you prefer we keep the borrow and spend policies that dug us into this hole in the first place? No thanks, hasn't worked out so well. The economy is in the toilet and the national debt is $10 trillion. It needs a shot in the arm to jump start it and more of the same old same old isn't going to accomplish that.

Obama plan isn't "socialism," it's traditional progressive taxation

"Make no mistake," Republican activist John Hancock told a John McCain rally in this St. Louis suburb, "this campaign is a referendum on socialism."

Republicans have been pounding that theme in recent days, even though Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama hardly fits the classic definition of a socialist.

Critics point to Obama's plan to raise the top two tax rates on the wealthy as clear evidence of his socialist bent. However, Len Burman, the director of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, said that while Obama "would make the tax system more progressive overall, it would not be a radical shift."

It wouldn't qualify as socialism.

"The answer is clearly no, Senator Obama is not a socialist," said Paul Beck, a professor of political science at Ohio State University. "We've had a progressive tax system for some time, and both Republicans and Democrats have bought into it."


Socialism involves state ownership of the means of economic production and state-directed sharing of the wealth. America's democratic capitalist system is neither socialist nor pure free market; rather, it mixes the two, and it has at least since the progressive income tax was introduced 95 years ago. Under it, the wealthy pay higher income tax rates than those who are less fortunate do. It's a form of sharing the wealth.

Government intervenes in U.S. "free markets" all the time. The deduction that homeowners get for mortgage interest is one form, for it subsidizes housing. The government contracts that sustain the great U.S. weapons makers, such as Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics, are another.

For that matter, President Bush and a lot of other Republicans, including McCain, backed a massive federal government rescue of ailing financial institutions this fall, one that's committed well more than $1 trillion so far to "private" banks, even taking partial ownership of the nine biggest.

Socialism has proved more popular in Europe, including in Great Britain, France, and Italy. In the United States, the term traditionally has been closely associated with communism, and thus claiming the socialist mantle has been political poison. Since World War II and the Cold War, American political candidates who advocate pure socialism rarely have gotten very far. Most notably, Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont was first elected to Congress in 1990 as a socialist, and remains one.

The new round of socialism claims was triggered by Obama's comments last week to "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher in Toledo, Ohio.

Wurzelbacher told Obama that he hoped someday to buy a plumbing business and asked, "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Key Bush administration tax cuts are due to expire Jan. 1, 2011. Obama wants to end breaks for most individuals who earn more than $200,000 and families that make more than $250,000; McCain does not. Obama's position would restore the top rates to where they were under President Clinton, when the economy boomed.

"It's not that I want to punish your success," the Illinois senator told Wurzelbacher. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success, too. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Republicans pounced, and haven't stopped.

"You see," McCain said in his radio address Saturday, "he believes in redistributing wealth, not in policies that help us all make more of it.

"Joe, in his plainspoken way, said this sounded a lot like socialism, and a lot of Americans are thinking along those same lines. In the best case, spreading the wealth around is a familiar idea from the American left."

It was Bush and McCain — who claimed a central role in the drama — who pushed a trillion-dollar government plan to save ailing financial institutions, however.

"If we're moving toward socialism," Beck said, "it's a bipartisan event."

One of the major challenges that the next president faces, former Federal Reserve Board Chairman and Obama backer Paul Volcker said Tuesday, is "how do we reprivatize institutions" that have been "socialized" by the Bush administration?

Many conservatives were uneasy about the bank bailout, but they argue that it's important to remember that "George Bush is not on the ballot," said Brent Littlefield of the American Conservative Union.

He pointed to Obama's tax ideas.

"It's a philosophical concept (Obama) has, and he made it clear when, unprompted, he talked about spreading the wealth around," Littlefield said.

Conservatives often charge that Democrats are engaging in "class warfare" when they want to raise tax rates on the rich — McCain and his running mate, Sarah Palin, have used the phrase against Obama — but they rarely find such fault when tax cuts benefit the wealthy class disproportionately.

For all that, the "socialist" charge against Obama sticks with some voters.

In Ohio, Sara Cannorozzi, who works for a Springfield promotional products business, explained that while her income is nowhere near the amount that would trigger a tax increase, she hopes it will be someday.

"Obama wants to talk about giving pieces of the pie to everyone, but he never wants to talk about growing the pie," she said. "I don't want to share my pie. If I earn it, I want to keep as much as I can."

Want2Stay

Reminder: Discuss the candidates and the issues respectfully please. Personal attacks of fellow members will NOT be tolerated.

The moderating team and the Harleys thank you for your cooperation.

Forever,
What happened to ethics in journalism?? What happened to telling a story exactly as it happened, not telling parts of the story that followed the journalists agenda? Which is a Liberal, socialist agenda.

I'm so sick of the liberal slant and spin from ALL of the national and most of the cable news outlets... rant2

I was sickened when I saw the news piece on NBC about Palin and her comment about what the VP does. By the way, having a 4th grader myself and asking her, thought Sarah did a great job with the explaination since she was talking to a child, NOT AN ADULT.

Had that been Bidden, and he said the exact some thing, they would have said how wonderful he did explaining things to a 3rd grader.

The liberal left are famous from saying that Bush "stole" the 2004 election. Where are they now, screaming about their Liberal Left Media "stealing" the 2008 election for "Obama the boy wonder"?

I'm sure that the Lefters on here will have something liberally nasty to say to spin it for Obama/Bidden.


Here's the deal from my perspective....

40% do not pay any taxes currently. The top 10% pay more than half the country's bills. I do believe that Tax and Spend is wrong and Borrow and Spend is also wrong.

People need to make a decision one day - cut back govt (radical slashing) and pay same or less taxes - this involves individuals taking responsibility for their own happiness and welfare (novel concept). OR the people are going to have to pay more for govt services. Personnally - anyone relying for govt to secure their happiness and well-being are going to be sadly disappointed. Just ask anyone from NOLA after Katrina.

I also believe that if the people dont make a rational and good decision that one day our currency and economy will implode on itself. Current status of the last 40yrs (Dem or GOP) will not go forever. I prefer less is better when it comes to govt spending and services.

I worked 2 jobs for over a decade (never making more than 60K a year) but nevertheless my net worth is over 250K (was higher last month unfortunately). The key is no debt other than a mortgage and pay cash or debit card as needed. I had to learn this the hard way - credit cards are incredibly enticing. It took years to payoff some stupid debt - I paid over 10K for transmission replacement in 1985 when I figure out the interest on the card that was used. I would be in a better financial condition if I had not spent so many years paying off those cards in the 80's.

Anyway I am not sure if I want to work any more hours in order for Congress to take anymore of MY dollars.

This is basic fundamental difference between Cons and Liberals. It seems that the Liberals in the past had thought that the money I earn is theirs and they are allowing me to take a allowance. I recall this was the basic argument that Reagan had against Carter.

Lets debate with respect and prevent a lock up LOL
Originally Posted by Maverick_mb
Reminder: Discuss the candidates and the issues respectfully please. Personal attacks of fellow members will NOT be tolerated.

The moderating team and the Harleys thank you for your cooperation.

I humbly apologize to anyone that I may have offended.... blush
Originally Posted by rwinger
Here's the deal from my perspective....

40% do not pay any taxes currently. The top 10% pay more than half the country's bills. I do believe that Tax and Spend is wrong and Borrow and Spend is also wrong.

People need to make a decision one day - cut back govt (radical slashing) and pay same or less taxes - this involves individuals taking responsibility for their own happiness and welfare (novel concept). OR the people are going to have to pay more for govt services. Personnally - anyone relying for govt to secure their happiness and well-being are going to be sadly disappointed. Just ask anyone from NOLA after Katrina.

I also believe that if the people dont make a rational and good decision that one day our currency and economy will implode on itself. Current status of the last 40yrs (Dem or GOP) will not go forever. I prefer less is better when it comes to govt spending and services.

I worked 2 jobs for over a decade (never making more than 60K a year) but nevertheless my net worth is over 250K (was higher last month unfortunately). The key is no debt other than a mortgage and pay cash or debit card as needed. I am not sure if I want to work any more hours in order for Congress to take anymore of MY dollars.

This is basic fundamental difference between Cons and Liberals. It seems that the Liberals in the past had thought that the money I earn is theirs and they are allowing me to take a allowance. I recall this was the basic argument that Reagan had against Carter.

Lets debate with respect and prevent a lock up LOL

Rwinger.....this is why this country should be moving to an across the broad tax where everyone pays the same % regardless of income.

All that "redistributing the wealth" does is cause more (like we need more people living off the government and the wealthy) people not to want to work hard to Achieve a higher standard of living. Why do it when the liberal government wants to slap your hand for making more money then they think that you need.

While my H and I DO NOT make any where close to the $250K....we do have HOPE that we will at some point and work hard every day to achieve it. But what's the point now if Obama is going to require even more taxes at that level and above?

JoJo

Net worth is not all cash - it also includes equity and 401K, so it is not as much believe me. Cash is king I think for the next several months, so I have a cpl of years in reserve in the event of a layoff.

I am not sure how I am going to keep at the same saving levels myself. Will have to adjust as time goes by. Recessions also present opportunities - vacation deals, car deals, might buy some rental property - prices are good right now. The economy especially the housing market was way over heated untile the bubble burst.

Now the younger generation like my oldest son can find some real deals and in fact buy a house from someone in financial distress.
Originally Posted by medc
C'mon, I wouldn't care if Biden got a 4.0 in college...he went tot the University of Delaware! Around these parts...the school is but ten minutes from my home, it is considered nothing but a party school for underachievers that couldn't get into some of the top flight schools in Philadelphia. Heck, my son's mom graduated from there and I know she is far from the brightest bulb in the pack.

While it was quite true in my day (and probably in yours) that UDel was nothing but a party school, it's not anymore. These days it is actually much more competitive. The kids I know that go there are very, very bright with very high gpas.

I know of only one top flight school in Phila. anyway, and it's UPenn. Drexel and Temple are easier to get into these days than UDel.
Quote
Forever,
What happened to ethics in journalism??

Lil - the same thing that happened to our public educational system and the vast majority of colleges and universities.

Liberalism attempting (and quite successfully most of the time) to limit or prohibit anything they don't like.

Succinctly, it's called "Relativism." They don't there ARE any "Right or Wrong" absolutes, morally or ethically, and certainly not "America, right or wrong."

Why do you think the Libs rant and rave about Fox News all the time? Because they no longer get to "slant" the news or even lie to "make their points" like the latest "fair and balanced" interview of Palin on CNN.

Did you happen to catch Joy Behar almost having a stroke and a cow at the same time when Bill O'Rielly "dared" to state that Obama' economic and tax plans ARE Socialist, if not "Marxist" or "Communist." "Daddy State" knows best. "Let the STATE determine who pays and who gets, with the STATE making the determination of "what's fair?" Right and wrong have, once again according to liberal thinking, NOTHING to do with it. We, the STATE "owe" you the right to take you neighbor's "extra" television and give it to you because you "need one." We can take your neighbor's car and give it to you, because you don't have one or yours is "too old."

It makes you want to PUKE.

Can't wear any clothing that supports conservatives and don't you DARE wear anything that suggests God exists or that Christianity is "right."

But don't you (meaning anyone of a conservative or Christian viewpoint) DARE to suggest that educators shouldn't be indoctinating children with all sorts of "leftist" ideas (i.e. homosexuality is okay, sex without marriage is okay, and heaven forbid that the THEORY of evolution be 'called into question' or...shudder...that the Creation Theory be taught because that might just give some poor kid the idea that God DOES exist).

Now there is Obama's claim that he "supports" the Second Amendement. Ya??? So why has Obama VOTED on RECORD against the Second Amendment protections EVERY time it has come up for a VOTE. Notice, he didn't vote "present," he voted AGAINST the right to own and bear arms, to use a weapon to defend yourself and your family from a home invader, etc.

And then there's the "little" matter of Obama being FOR all abortions AND for the death of any baby who "just happened" to thwart the will of the abortionist and mother by daring to SURVIVE a botched abortion attempt.

And Biden thinks Obama will be "tested" with some foreign crisis his first 6 months in office? What EVER might give someone the idea that OBAMA was interested in defending THIS country?

WHO was it that said that "the Presidency is no place for on the job training?"

NONE of that matters to liberals. They don't care. Obama doesn't care and a vote FOR Obama is an agreement and endorsement of "not caring." The "End justifies the Means."

Now where, oh where, have we heard that Obama mantra, and liberal belief, before?

Originally Posted by penaltykill
While it was quite true in my day (and probably in yours) that UDel was nothing but a party school, it's not anymore. These days it is actually much more competitive. The kids I know that go there are very, very bright with very high gpas.

I know of only one top flight school in Phila. anyway, and it's UPenn. Drexel and Temple are easier to get into these days than UDel.

PK, I guess Biden was "back then."

But it could also be the "course of study."

I was a Biology/Pre-Med major in college.

I had to work my butt off to get an "average" grade in Science while working full time just to BE in school.

But anytime I wanted to "get a grade" all I had to do was to take some non-science related course.

As an example, my last semester in school I got 3 A's and 2 B's. I took 2 psychology courses, 2 philosophy courses, and a PE (golf) course. I did ALL the work for all the classes in about 1 week and partied and played golf 1 or 2 times every day.

I never did write up my term paper for one of the psychology courses. I just brought the professor my notes and outline and got and "A" for the course. "Poor little me," just not enough time to do a paper write up if I was going to graduate on time.

GPA means next to nothing to me in a candidate, as VERY few of them ever took the "hard sciences" or "mathematics."

I am speaking of today. My son would actually be entitled to free tuition at the school(his mom works there)...and I will NOT send him there. It is a haven for crime/drugs/partying(and a nightmare for the Newark Police Department). Today.

St. Joes
Penn
LaSalle
Villanova
Bryn Mawr


All much better choices than UDel. And Joe Biden went there when the reputation was really bad.
Quote
And Biden thinks Obama will be "tested" with some foreign crisis his first 6 months in office? What EVER might give someone the idea that OBAMA was interested in defending THIS country?

How scary is this?? After hearing Bidden make this comment, I hear Obama saying "We're going to start pulling Troop out of Iraq".

My son is headed back to Iraq for a 2nd tour of duty. He's appalled with Obama and his stand on the military. My son said that by pulling out before things are settled there, it's going to create a vacuum which is going to cause things to get very bad. He said "Mom, if they pull out before it's time, they (the terrorist) are coming after us on our soil. Mark my words"

My son said this a YEAR AGO.....now I hear Bidden saying what he said.


I FEEL SICK everytime I think about this. puke
Originally Posted by JoJo422
Rwinger.....this is why this country should be moving to an across the broad tax where everyone pays the same % regardless of income.

All that "redistributing the wealth" does is cause more (like we need more people living off the government and the wealthy) people not to want to work hard to Achieve a higher standard of living. Why do it when the liberal government wants to slap your hand for making more money then they think that you need.

While my H and I DO NOT make any where close to the $250K....we do have HOPE that we will at some point and work hard every day to achieve it. But what's the point now if Obama is going to require even more taxes at that level and above?


I own and operate my own business. Before I ended up on MB, I paid taxes greater than most middle class Americans make. I was well on my way to falling into the classification of $250,000 per year that Obama is proposing for higher taxes.

The fact is that for the economy to do well the middle class has to have dispensable income to purchase goods and services. You have two options...give tax cuts to everyone and increase the national debt or give tax cuts to the middle class, raise taxes slightly for the wealthy and attempt to find a balance that keeps the national debt from increasing.

So, even if you pay a small percentage more in tax falling into the $250,000 a year income bracket, you'd still be living a lifestyle greater than 95% of the population. That sounds like reward enough for putting in the hard work to achieve that level of income. Actually, it would benefit you more because the middle class would then have more money to spend on goods and services for you to continue growing your business.

The only time our economy leveled off was under Clinton, like him or not, the tax policies he put in place worked and the economy boomed.

Want2Stay



Taxes aren't the only consideration here, it's just one aspect. While I do not agree with Obama's tax plan, I also do not agree with his stand on the Military, abortion and many other things.

One of my biggest problems is his experience and those of you that like him, can't possibiliy be ok with his non-experience.

I'm an Anaylst for a major Health Care company and my job requires 4+ year experience. I'm sure that most upper position jobs require at least that or more.

How can anyone say that 140 days of government experience makes him a quailified choice for this job? It just doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by JoJo422
I'm an Anaylst for a major Health Care company and my job requires 4+ year experience. I'm sure that most upper position jobs require at least that or more.

As someone that works in health care, you can't possibly believe that McCain's health care plans are a good idea. They would destroy the employer based health insurance. Most major business organizations, including the United States Chamber of Commerce, have said it is a terrible idea. For the first time in history, McCain is going to tax your health insurance premiums. In return, he's going to offer you a $5000 tax credit should your employer drop your health insurance plan since they will no longer receive tax credits for providing it. It's estimated that 20 million people will lose their health insurance because we all know when bussiness is given the opportunity to increase profits versus taking care of their employees they will chose profits every time. Now, as I said, I am a businessman and I have purchased health insurance on the open market and $5000 wouldn't even begin to cover the cost. The premiums for my family of 4 to receive average coverage was $1200 PER MONTH! That $5000 tax credit isn't going to go very far and you're going to have to make up the difference out of pocket. If you are one of the lucky ones that gets to keep your current health insurance, you lose out on the taxes you paid on your health benefits. So, in essence, McCain actually just raised your taxes.


Originally Posted by JoJo422
How can anyone say that 140 days of government experience makes him a quailified choice for this job? It just doesn't make sense.

It's argued the Obama's IQ falls somewhere in the top 96% of the people on the planet. He's been studying ALL forms of government for nearly 20 years. So yes, he doesn't have on the job experience, but he most definitely does have an enormous amount of knowledge regarding the subject. I believe the fact that he hasn't been part of the current system for decades is a good thing. You have to look no further than the 100+ current and former lobbyists working on McCain's campaign to see how the system corrupts from within. McCain's own campaign manager, Rick Davis, received over $2.5 million in payments in one form or another from Freddie Mac.

Want2Stay

medc: You'd turn down free tuition! Free! Takes a strong person to do that. So, you're speaking of colleges around philly. There's a ton in PA, to be sure. I looked at Haverford for my daughter and was kind of amazed at some things there. It's probably my age showing, but I prefer co-ed dorms to be co-ed by floor, rather than by room. The bathrooms may even have been co-ed, come to think of it.

I think that the partying atmosphere is prevalent at a lot of schools, even (or especially?) at ones with excellent reputations. My daughter goes to a school that is featured in Princeton Review's Elite Colleges and there is a lot of partying. You just have to hope that you've given your child the right foundation, which it sounds like you have.

ForeverHers: you sound just like my husband! (bio major/pre-med). He talks about his college roomates, non-science majors, who regularly slept until noon while he was headed to an 8am lab. Funny thing is that today, one of them is a master of the universe and the other is probably one of the top trial lawyers in our state.
Quote
Did you happen to catch Joy Behar almost having a stroke and a cow at the same time when Bill O'Rielly "dared" to state that Obama' economic and tax plans ARE Socialist, if not "Marxist" or "Communist." "Daddy State" knows best. "Let the STATE determine who pays and who gets, with the STATE making the determination of "what's fair?" Right and wrong have, once again according to liberal thinking, NOTHING to do with it. We, the STATE "owe" you the right to take you neighbor's "extra" television and give it to you because you "need one." We can take your neighbor's car and give it to you, because you don't have one or yours is "too old."

FH - saw this last night also - pretty good.

Another topic that gives me pause - Wife and I have traveled all over Central America with backpacks. Seeing the low-income or "real poor" in those locations vs what we consider poor here is quite a difference.

I propose that we have the most over weight obese poor in the history of mankind anywhere in the world. So I am not sure what needs most of our low income folks are lacking that isnt already provided. I would rather give my money for better and higher education. Giving it to those that will do something with it and are willing rather than the opportunity to buy $100 tennis shoes, new Ipod or fancy pants.

It comes to the basic issue - Left wants to give bread out and the Right wants to give the means to make the bread. Just my humble opinion.

btw - my teenage daughter is pregnant - and eligible for a bunch of goodies from the govt. I just want to make sure her education is provided so she will not be a welfare queen. A mistake that would be multiplied many times. We will take care of raising the little one so she can finish HS and go to college. Life does not promise anyone a rose garden and the politicians need to stop the promises.
Originally Posted by Want2Stay/
As someone that works in health care, you can't possibly believe that McCain's health care plans are a good idea. They would destroy the employer based health insurance. Most major business organizations, including the United States Chamber of Commerce, have said it is a terrible idea. For the first time in history, McCain is going to tax your health insurance premiums. In return, he's going to offer you a $5000 tax credit should your employer drop your health insurance plan since they will no longer receive tax credits for providing it. It's estimated that 20 million people will lose their health insurance because we all know when bussiness is given the opportunity to increase profits versus taking care of their employees they will chose profits every time. Now, as I said, I am a businessman and I have purchased health insurance on the open market and $5000 wouldn't even begin to cover the cost. The premiums for my family of 4 to receive average coverage was $1200 PER MONTH! That $5000 tax credit isn't going to go very far and you're going to have to make up the difference out of pocket. If you are one of the lucky ones that gets to keep your current health insurance, you lose out on the taxes you paid on your health benefits. So, in essence, McCain actually just raised your taxes.

And what do you think Obama's plan is going to do to the health insurance industry?

IMO, the best way to reduce healthcare costs for EVERYONE is to regulate TORT lawsuits and reduce the # of people on MEDICAID, which is done by reducting entitlement programs and the # of people on them not by increasing, which is what Obama will do. Since I do work in Health Care, I see first hand what those two things do to his industry


Quote
It's argued the Obama's IQ falls somewhere in the top 96% of the people on the planet. He's been studying ALL forms of government for nearly 20 years. So yes, he doesn't have on the job experience, but he most definitely does have an enormous amount of knowledge regarding the subject. I believe the fact that he hasn't been part of the current system for decades is a good thing. You have to look no further than the 100+ current and former lobbyists working on McCain's campaign to see how the system corrupts from within. McCain's own campaign manager, Rick Davis, received over $2.5 million in payments in one form or another from Freddie Mac.

Want2Stay


Have you ever heard the expression "EDUCATED IDIOT??

Just because he has Studied government for 20 years, that does not take the place for ACTUAL EXPERIENCE.

Do you want a person that has STUDIED Medicine for 20 years taking care of your deathly ill child (our country), or someone with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE????

I'll Take experience.....Especially in todays uncertain world.

Tell Barrack to come back in 8 years, when he's got 10 years (1/2 of his book experience) and then we'll talk.

Quote
Have you ever heard the expression "EDUCATED IDIOT??

This is funny - my father's saying when he deals with morons is "I think he has had one year of college too much"
Quote
McCain's own campaign manager, Rick Davis, received over $2.5 million in payments in one form or another from Freddie Mac.


FIRST of all....if you're going to make statements, at least tell the WHOLE TRUTH, not the truth as the LIBERAL MEDIA see's it. Rick Davis, DID NOT rec'ed $2.5M from FM, Davis Manafort did. Which, Rick Davis had taken a leave of absence from beginning in 2006, A leave without pay I might Add.


Quote
"Mr. Davis has seen no income from Davis Manafort since 2006. Zero. Mr. Davis has received no salary or compensation since 2006. Mr. Davis has received no profit or partner distributions from that firm on any basis -- weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, semi-annual or annual -- since 2006. Again, zero. Neither has Mr. Davis received any equity in the firm based on profits derived since his financial separation from Davis Manafort in 2006,"

But the above information has been BURIED by the LIBERAL MEDIA. It's not a daily talking point.....WHY....because it's not a story unless they are telling HALF TRUTHS. This story would have never seen the light of day if the Liberal Leaning Media had ANY ETHIC's AT ALL. It would not have been a story period.


Since you brought this up..... Remind me again.......HOW MUCH DID OBAMA, himself, GET FROM FM????


The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama.

Now remember, he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.


It's amazing how the Liberal left, when trying to point fingers at someone else, ALWAYS neglects to say anything about their OWN INVOLVEMENT and also neglects to tell the public THE ENTIRE TRUTH..... naughty
Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Why would you think I should use your COMPLETE quote from a post of yours I DID NOT QUOTE AT ALL???

I have no idea what you are trying to say here Marsh, sorry. My point is simple: Palin said a VP is in charge of Senate. End of story. If you want to discuss this, let's do it. But I am not interested in playing "I didn't quote what I quoted" games.

AGG
Originally Posted by JoJo422
Have you ever heard the expression "EDUCATED IDIOT??

Don't look now, but the educated idiot is out campaigning and out classing the GOP right out of the Whitehouse.

Swing states swinging to Obama: Most of the national polls -- including our NBC/WSJ survey -- are now showing Obama with a double-digit national lead. And here come a slew of brand-new state polls that also suggest Obama is in command of this presidential contest. The University of Wisconsin’s Big Ten Battleground polls have Obama up 10 points in Indiana (51%-41%), 13 points in Iowa (52%-39%), 22 in Michigan (58%-36%), 19 in Minnesota (57%-38%), 12 in Ohio (53%-41%), 11 in Pennsylvania (52%-41%), 13 in Wisconsin (53%-40%), and nearly 30 in Obama’s home state of Illinois (61%-32%). Meanwhile, there are new Quinnipiac surveys that show Obama up five points in Florida (49%-44%), 14 in Ohio (52%-38%), and 13 in Pennsylvania (53%-40%). And finally, new CNN/Time surveys find Obama ahead by five points among likely voters in Nevada (51%-46%), four points in North Carolina (51%-47%), four in Ohio (50%-46%), and 10 points in Virginia (54%-44%). The lone state survey that shows McCain ahead: CNN/Time’s West Virginia poll, where McCain’s nine (53%-44%).

Want2Stay


Originally Posted by JoJo422
Lets hear how you would explain this to a 3rd grader, keeping in mind that YOU have time to think about your answer and aren't under constant media and democrat scrutiny

Well, by definition I had time to think about it, so I won't pretend that I didn't.

But regardless, I think it's easy to explain, even to a 3rd grader, that a VP's job is to promote the agenda of the President, including working to get bills passed through Senate. Just not be in charge of the Senate.

It's like if a 3rd grader asked you what is your job as a businessman, and you'd say "I work with other businessmen to get things done". You would not say "I am in charge of the other businessmen".

AGG
AGG,
How would you have explained to a 3rd grader what a VP's job is?

How old are your children, think about how you have to explain things to a 7 year old as opposed to an Adult?
Originally Posted by JoJo422
FIRST of all....if you're going to make statements, at least tell the WHOLE TRUTH, not the truth as the LIBERAL MEDIA see's it. Rick Davis, DID NOT rec'ed $2.5M from FM, Davis Manafort did.

And who was leading the firm Davis Manafort if not Rick Davis?

AGG

Originally Posted by JoJo422
AGG,
How would you have explained to a 3rd grader what a VP's job is?

I thought I just did... dontknow

"a VP's job is to promote the agenda of the President, including working to get bills passed through Senate"

AGG
Originally Posted by Want2Stay
As someone that works in health care, you can't possibly believe that McCain's health care plans are a good idea. They would destroy the employer based health insurance. Most major business organizations, including the United States Chamber of Commerce, have said it is a terrible idea. For the first time in history, McCain is going to tax your health insurance premiums.

Want2, these sorts of lies and distortions of the FACTS really are "something else." Granted they are standard "fare" among the "Obamaites," but they are so far from the truth as to be DELIBERATE and INTENDED to mislead the public so that Obama can get the votes that will enable him to bring in HIS idea of Socialism.

I DO work in the insurance industry as an Agent, and I can tell you that Obama's plan WILL destroy healthcare in the USA as we know it.

It WILL be the government who can tell you what you can have and when you can have it. It WILL require MASSIVE increases in taxes on everyone. You seem to have no idea of the true COST of healthcare services, but I can tell you that Doctors will leave their practices and providers like hospitals will close their doors. There is NO FREE LUNCH, but that is what Obama wants us to believe.

Here is the TRUTH about the McCain/Palin Healthcare Plan



For the complete website information, see:

http://www.johnmccain.com/content/d...e&t=healthcare&r=healthcarefacts


The Truth about the McCain-Palin Health Care Plan

Barack Obama And Joe Biden Have Consistently Lied To Americans About John McCain's Plan. Their claims have failed every fact-check – from CBS to the Washington Post. John McCain is not going to raise taxes on middle class families. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are the only ones in this race that plan to raise taxes.


OBAMA FICTION =
John McCain Will Tax Health Care Benefits For The First Time And Will Be the Largest Middle Class Tax Increase In History.


THE FACTS =
This Obama charge is a blatant mischaracterization of the McCain Health Plan. It only focuses on the fact that the value of the employer provided insurance will now show up as additional income for the employees – what he fails to mention – is that John McCain’s generous refundable tax credit ($5,000 for families and $2,500 for individuals) will not only shield millions of families from a tax increase but will actually give them MORE dollars to invest in their health care needs.

The McCain Plan DOES NOT tax:
· Premiums paid by families and individuals
· Employers for providing health care coverage
· Medical expenses like the cost of a procedure or medication
· Insurance claims

Approach Supported By Obama’s Own Advisor: This is an approach supported by Barack Obama's own Senior Economic Advisor Jason Furman who wrote that "we could scrap the current deduction altogether and replace it with progressive tax credits that, together with other changes, would ensure that every American has affordable health insurance."

Better Than "Members of Congress": Under the McCain Plan, your employer can provide you with health insurance as good as a "Member of Congress" (approximately $12,000), and you would pay no more in taxes – regardless of your tax bracket. In fact, you would have additional money left over from the McCain tax credit to put in a health savings account.

Income Tax Liability____________McCain-Palin Tax Credit__Total Tax Savings
10% Bracket (Up to $15,000) $1,200 ($12,000 x 10%) $5,000 +$3,800

15% Bracket ($15,650 - $63,700) $1,800 ($12,000 x 15%) $5,000 +$3,200

25% Bracket ($63,700 - $128,500)$3,000 ($12,000 x 25%) $5,000 +$2,000

28% Bracket ($128,500 - $195,850)$3,360 ($12,000 x 28%) $5,000 +$1,640

33% Bracket ($195,850 - $349,700)$3,960 ($12,000 x 33%) $5,000 +$1,040
35% Bracket ($349,700 and Over) $4,200 ($12,000 x 35%) $5,000 +$800

Where Is The Middle-Class "Tax Increase"?

If you or your family is in the 28% bracket, with an income of $180,000, you could receive employer provided health insurance even better than a Member of Congress, with a cost of almost $18,000, with no increase in taxes. Even the liberal leaning Tax Policy Center, agrees that the McCain proposals will result in a "net tax benefit" of more than $1,200 for an average tax payer. A recent Lewin Group study estimated savings of more than $1,400 per American family – almost three times the savings as under the Obama plan.


OBAMA FICTION =
The McCain Plan Will Reduce Medicare Spending By Billions By “Cutting Benefits, Eligibility or Both.”

THE FACTS =
John McCain believes that we can achieve savings in Medicare without reducing benefits or eligibility. He has proposed common-sense reforms that will not only put Medicare on a path of financial stability but ensure access to quality care for millions of Americans. Some of the policies proposed by the McCain plan include:

· Promote payment reform that allows us to move away from the current fragmented and volume-based service to a system which rewards coordinated and quality focused care.

· Eliminate Medicare fraud and abuse to ensure that nearly $60 billion a year, almost 10 percent of total Medicare spending, that goes to line the pocket of criminals instead of providing quality care for seniors.

· Ensure that drug premiums for the wealthiest Americans are not being subsidized by the middle class.

· Promote a new generation of treatment models that better manage chronic care conditions while rewarding prevention and wellness.

· Greater use of Health IT and medical homes to promote greater co-ordination of care.

· Reduce drug costs by allowing greater use of generics (including bio-generics).

The Obama Spin: If some of the proposals above sound familiar to Senator Obama’s proposals including – better managing chronic care diseases, greater use of health IT, promoting prevention and greater use of generic drugs - because they are. Only the liberal media and the Obama campaign would characterize similar proposals as “savings” in the their plan and “cutting benefits, eligibility or both” in the McCain plan.


OBAMA FICTION =
John McCain Will Tax Health Care Benefits For The First Time And Send The Money Straight To The Insurance Companies.

THE FACTS =
Another desperate attack by the Obama campaign. Here is what they purposefully fail to mention – the credit goes to the insurance company that the American family chooses to get coverage from, anywhere in the nation. The power of choice lies with the family – not government bureaucrats or insurance companies.

· Putting Families In Charge: Under the McCain Plan American families will not only decide where the tax credit should be directed for their coverage needs but any additional money left over after purchasing coverage will be controlled by the family in a portable health savings account. Ridiculing this line of strange attack, The Associated Press stated, "Of course it would, because it's meant to pay for insurance. That's like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer."

· Obama Criticizing His Own Approach: Most importantly, Senator Obama is criticizing an approach that is used by his own HOPE credits – where tax payer money simply goes from the federal government to colleges.


OBAMA FICTION =
Americans With Pre-Existing Condition Under The McCain Plan Will Not Find Coverage.

THE FACTS =
John McCain believes that no American should be denied access to quality and affordable coverage simply because of a pre-existing condition. As President, John McCain will work with governors to develop a best practice model that states can follow – a Guaranteed Access Plan or GAP – that would reflect the best experience of the states to ensure these patients have access to health coverage. There would be reasonable limits on premiums, and assistance would be available for Americans below a certain income level.


OBAMA FICTION =
The McCain Health Plan Will Damage Employer Provided Insurance For Millions of Americans.

THE FACTS =
The McCain health plan builds on the employer-based system. Employers will have the same incentive to provide health insurance as they do today since they will continue to deduct the cost of health insurance they provide to employees.

· Millions With Employer Coverage Will Do Better Under The McCain Plan: Millions of American families with employer sponsored coverage in all tax brackets with the same coverage as a "Members of Congress" will now come out ahead with additional funds going into a portable health savings account. Importantly, younger and healthier employees with the McCain health care tax credit will have a bigger incentive to stay with the employers. For example, a 25-year-old employee in the 25 percent tax bracket with a $2,500 tax credit could either purchase a policy in the individual market for the same amount or stay with his employer plan and receive a $5,000 policy with an additional $1,250 to invest in a portable health savings account. Why would people choose fewer benefits for more money?

So Why Is Barack Obama Hiding Details About His Plan?

1. Barack Obama's Plan Will Harm Employer Coverage

The Obama plan includes a $179 billion a year employer mandate. The mandate requires employers to either provide "meaningful" coverage or pay a tax towards the government plan. Faced with tough economic conditions and rising health costs this creates a clear incentive for employers to drop coverage and move families into the new government plan. A Lewin Group study which examined a similar employer mandate combined with a national plan, like the Obama plan, concluded that almost 52 million individuals would lose their private employer coverage. To maintain their competitive edge, others employers will follow - spelling the demise of the employer coverage system.

2. Barack Obama's Plan Continues The Push Toward Government-Run Healthcare

The Obama plan will create a brand new government-run health plan at the cost of $243 billion a year – a financial burden of more than $3,000 a year on American families.

3. Barack Obama's Plan Will Damage Private Coverage

The government-run plan will have a clear advantage over private insurance since it will be subsidized by American taxpayers. A recent analysis of both plans by the nonpartisan CATO Institute concluded that the Obama government-run plan will be able to "keep its premiums artificially low…since it can turn to the U.S. Treasury to cover any shortfalls" resulting in "undercutting the private market." According to Wall Street Journal, the goal of the Obama plan "…like HillaryCare in the 1990s, is to displace current private coverage and switch people to the default government option."

Originally Posted by ForeverHers
This sort of thing has been TYPICAL of the Left in their zealousness to get Obama elected BY ANY MEANS. The truth does not matter to them.

Right, and Lilly White McCain/Palin would not stoop to untruthful robocalls flooding the phone lines, never. The truth must matter to them more than their desire to win... rotflmao. An honest politician is an oxymoron.

AGG
Originally Posted by Want2Stay
Originally Posted by JoJo422
Have you ever heard the expression "EDUCATED IDIOT??

Don't look now, but the educated idiot is out campaigning and out classing the GOP right out of the Whitehouse.

Swing states swinging to Obama: Most of the national polls -- including our NBC/WSJ survey -- are now showing Obama with a double-digit national lead. And here come a slew of brand-new state polls that also suggest Obama is in command of this presidential contest. The University of Wisconsin’s Big Ten Battleground polls have Obama up 10 points in Indiana (51%-41%), 13 points in Iowa (52%-39%), 22 in Michigan (58%-36%), 19 in Minnesota (57%-38%), 12 in Ohio (53%-41%), 11 in Pennsylvania (52%-41%), 13 in Wisconsin (53%-40%), and nearly 30 in Obama’s home state of Illinois (61%-32%). Meanwhile, there are new Quinnipiac surveys that show Obama up five points in Florida (49%-44%), 14 in Ohio (52%-38%), and 13 in Pennsylvania (53%-40%). And finally, new CNN/Time surveys find Obama ahead by five points among likely voters in Nevada (51%-46%), four points in North Carolina (51%-47%), four in Ohio (50%-46%), and 10 points in Virginia (54%-44%). The lone state survey that shows McCain ahead: CNN/Time’s West Virginia poll, where McCain’s nine (53%-44%).

Want2Stay

What's your point? So he's up in the polls....it still does not mean that he is the best person for the job. DOES IT?

It still does not mean that he is EXPERIENCED...DOES IT?? A poll does not give him any more experience than he has.

It still does not mean that his policies and what he plans to do is what will be best for this country.... DOES IT??

I'd like to see where your EDUCATED IDIOT would be if we had an un-biased MEDIA. A media that told the WHOLE truth not just a LIBERAL SLANTED truth.

We'll never know though will we since the MEDIA will NEVER tell anything but what will further their own AGENDA..which is Liberal/socialist Politics

Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Well, by definition I had time to think about it, so I won't pretend that I didn't.

But regardless, I think it's easy to explain, even to a 3rd grader, that a VP's job is to promote the agenda of the President, including working to get bills passed through Senate. Just not be in charge of the Senate.

It's like if a 3rd grader asked you what is your job as a businessman, and you'd say "I work with other businessmen to get things done". You would not say "I am in charge of the other businessmen".

AGG

AGG, don't you have anything better to do that "nitpick" when everyone KNEW exactly what Palin meant....as her Constitutionally appointed position as PRESIDENT of the Senate, she IS the "one in charge" from a Constitutional standpoint, and EXERCISES her "charge" in the event of a tie vote between the Senators.

As Vice President she WOULD talk with various members of Congress, both Senators and Congressmen, to "argue for" things the President would want.

Guess what? The same holds true for ALL Vice Presidents.


In the "day to day" operations of the Senate, not even the "President Pro-Tempore" Robert Byrd is in charge of the "day to day" operating of the Senate, the Majority Leader is.

I swear the Libs are scared to death of Sarah Palin, a truly liberated woman.

Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Originally Posted by JoJo422
Lets hear how you would explain this to a 3rd grader, keeping in mind that YOU have time to think about your answer and aren't under constant media and democrat scrutiny

Well, by definition I had time to think about it, so I won't pretend that I didn't.

But regardless, I think it's easy to explain, even to a 3rd grader, that a VP's job is to promote the agenda of the President, including working to get bills passed through Senate. Just not be in charge of the Senate.

It's like if a 3rd grader asked you what is your job as a businessman, and you'd say "I work with other businessmen to get things done". You would not say "I am in charge of the other businessmen".

AGG

This is assuming that the 3rd grader knows what an agenda is and what it means to 'promote the agenda'.

My 4th grader's 'agenda' is the spiral book that she brings home everyday with her homework assignments listed in it.

So take her understanding of what an 'agenda' is and read your explaination. Do you still think it makes sense on a 3rd grade level??


Originally Posted by Want2Stay
Don't look now, but the educated idiot is out campaigning and out classing the GOP right out of the Whitehouse.

Want2Stay

Want2, have you ever heard the one:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time,

You can fool all of the people some of the time,

But you can't fool all of the people all of the time."?


That has been the BASIS of Obama's mantra of "Change."

He does NOT like to talk about the specfics of his change, and when he DOES talk about it, it is all about Socialism, income redistribution, negotiating without preconditions, and about NOT drilling for our own oil (but simply inflate our tires to make the oil importing problem go away).

Obama DOES mean to change America, but he intends to change it into a Socialist/Marxist type of country. VERY "Constitutional" of him.

And I also mention that he is AGAINST the Second Amendment and AGAINST States Rights in the area of Abortion? His "change" is to make it IMPOSSIBLE for any State to limit any abortion for any reason.

His "change" is even for infanticide to be "okay," and has both argued that way and voted that way.

And some people are "worried" that Palin said the VP was "in charge" of the Senate??? think faint

"Some of the people ALL of the time." Yep. That's Barack. And if he can just fool "all of the people until he gets his hands on actual power....", the ends justify his means.

Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Originally Posted by ForeverHers
This sort of thing has been TYPICAL of the Left in their zealousness to get Obama elected BY ANY MEANS. The truth does not matter to them.

Right, and Lilly White McCain/Palin would not stoop to untruthful robocalls flooding the phone lines, never. The truth must matter to them more than their desire to win... rotflmao. An honest politician is an oxymoron.

AGG

Gotcha. You like to find ways to rationalize and justify the actions of Obama and his supporters.

Interesting that you totally ignored the TRUTH about the McCain/Paling healthcare plan though.

But that's what the Liberals do.....

If the Liberal Media had said nothing about what Palin said, hadn't made this big todo about nothing, had treated what she said as a legitament answer to a 3rd grader, which is what it was, NOT ONE LIBERAL would be harping on this.

They all follow the LIBERAL MEDIA with baited breath. If the Liberal Media doesn't make a big deal of something, then neither do they.

It's really scary how they follow Obama and the Liberal Media like they are a bunch of sheep without minds of their own... attacking others for not following too.....faint

They better make sure they Don't drink the kool-aid at any of the Obama rallies.


Originally Posted by AGoodGuy
Originally Posted by JoJo422
AGG,
How would you have explained to a 3rd grader what a VP's job is?

I thought I just did... dontknow

"a VP's job is to promote the agenda of the President, including working to get bills passed through Senate"

AGG


You know...the funniest thing about this whole episode is that the Republican's trying to defend Mrs. Palin on this encounter PRESUME, based upon her demeanor, that she WAS actually speaking to a 3rd grader. They saw the clip but failed to realize that she was actually speaking to a reporter that asked the question that was merely "written-in" by a 3rd grader. There was no 3rd grader in the room.

<<<<squeeeek>>>>

Another thing I find so disingenous about this whole debate is when self-admitted single-issue voters jump in discussing other issues that they clearly care nothing about. If Obama were pro-life and McCain pro-choice, their entire view would do a 180. McCain would be the socialist because he (and the Republicans) bailed out Wall Street, McCain's health care plan would destroy the world, McCain's adultery WOULD magically matter, Obama's resume would be GREAT (just as Bush's was over Al Gore and John Kerry), etc.

It's clearly just a throw mud at the wall and see what sticks attitude that, to me, quite frankly, has been the biggest turnoff about the Republican Party for going on 14 years.

If the desperation gets worse, I'd anticipate the Homeland Security Advisory System will increase the terror alert color to Orange (HIGH). After all...a black, radical, muslim, liberal, socialist, communist, infantcidal, media controlling man has obviously hypnotized the American public and is about to win the presidential election.

Did I mention..."the polls are tightening...especially amoung WHITE voters" which will be the catch phrase of the coming weeks as figures lie and liars figure. Not only are they hoping for a Bradley effect, they sense their Republican base throwing in the towel and staying at home to avoid the long lines of people at the voting booths and cheering crowds of Obama supporters that will surely be there. They MUST give them some hope to get them to show up on election day.


btw... a word of encouragement to my democrat friends (you know who you are...you are the ones that despite the polls still think there is some way that McCain is going to pull off an upset <Tucker>):

Did you know that the last time the Republicans won a Presidential Election without the name Nixon or Bush on the ticket as President or Vice President was 1928?

Keep your heads up. I am proud to be a Christian and proud to be a Democrat.

Mr. Wondering
I try to avoid political posts like this. I can't stand it when it gets so heated. That being said, my friend sent me a funny photo shop picture of obama and Palin. I wanted to know if there is any way I can attach it to a post.

Mr W...

Amazing the thread is not locked yet. I respect anyone's position because everyone has a diff perspective. I lean more Conservative. GOP has disappointed me to no end in the past few years. Tax and spend or Borrow and spend - no difference - just stop the bleeding before it is all lost.

I suspect that if or when Obama does win, the Blue Dogs within the Dem party will save us from the left side.

I wonder if the GOP will have a complete meltdown and will burn down in ashes. It may take a generation before another Reagan comes along to bring back some life.
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Another thing I find so disingenous about this whole debate is when self-admitted single-issue voters jump in discussing other issues that they clearly care nothing about. If Obama were pro-life and McCain pro-choice, their entire view would do a 180. McCain would be the socialist because he (and the Republicans) bailed out Wall Street, McCain's health care plan would destroy the world, McCain's adultery WOULD magically matter, Obama's resume would be GREAT (just as Bush's was over Al Gore and John Kerry), etc.

Okay, here we go again. First, this "slam" against "single- issue voters," as if there are not a lot of people who are voting for Obama on a "single-issue."

Do you REALLY believe that there aren't OTHER issues also of great importance? I KNOW that there are for me, even though Obama's support for abortion and infanticide IS the BIGGEST reason I can't vote for him, anymore than I would vote for any candidate who wanted to continue killing millions of innocent children just so he can pander to the pro-death for babies crowd.

However, if that wasn't bad enough, then the argument procedes to manufacture a scenario out of whole cloth and attempts to use that scenario to "prove" that supporters of John McCain are "disingenuos." Let's be perfectly frank here, and I won't speak for anyone but myself, we are NOT voting on any imaginary "hypothetical reversal" of positions by the candidates.

We are voting on THEIR positions period, on WHAT IS, and not on some hypothetical. But I suppose if one wanted to "play this game," AND assume the illogical premise of the argument, then ALL of the current supporters of Obama would "switch sides" and vote for McCain, because Obama would then be presenting Pro-life, Pro-Second Amendment, Pro-Capitalism, Pro-education(not in the tank of Teachers Unions), Pro-Domestic Oil and energy production, etc. platforms. It would be McCain who was being elitist and telling Pennsylvanians that they cling to their guns and religion. And the Democrats would "magically" become Republicans, just as this hypothetical argument tries to "make a case" that McCain supporters would "become" Democrats.




Originally Posted by MrWondering
It's clearly just a throw mud at the wall and see what sticks attitude that, to me, quite frankly, has been the biggest turnoff about the Republican Party for going on 14 years.

Give me a break. You want to argue that Obama and the Democrats are "lilly white" and have not thrown mud, not to mention outright LIES and DISTORTIONS of TRUTH all over the entire house???

This sort of thing has been "stock in trade" for Democrats for as long as I can remember. Does ANYONE believe that Bill Clinton didn't lie through his teeth? Does ANYONE NOT believe that Bill Clinton and his democrat supports sought to viciously attack anyone they didn't like? Ever hear of Paula Jones, or any of the women that Clinton lusted after?

Whitewater?

Vince Foster?

And now comes Obama who will saying anything to anyone to get elected, while he tries as hard as he can hide the TRUTH about his beliefs and positions. Does ANYONE believe that he was so STUPID and NAIVE to be able to sit in Rev. Wright's pews for 20 YEARS and NOT know, and approve of by virtue of his REMAINING there and NOT leaving until Wright "offended" him personally?

Does ANYONE believe that Obama did NOT know and approve of Bill Ayers decidedly leftist, anti-American views? Does ANYONE not believe that Obama "paid back" Tony Rezko, and several others, including some who went to Communist rallies as supporters, with TAXPAYER money?

NOW Obama wants to "spread the grease" around to "95%" of the people AND increase spending by ONE TRILLION DOLLARS in ADDITION to the "financial rescue package" of 700 Million?

Does ANYONE NOT believe that Obama and the Democrats were trying to "sneak in a HUGE taxpayer payoff" to ACORN in the first "rescue package" that they want to blame McCain and Republicans for refusing to let them have their way?

Does ANYONE NOT believe that Bill Clinton, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, and a host of other Democrats were RESPONSIBLE for the financial meltdown caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all in the interest of "spreading the wealth around?" By the way, WHAT EXACTLY DID Obama tell "Joe the Plumber" that HE wants to do as President? More of "spread the wealth around." Of course it will be according to who Obama thinks gets to "pay" and who gets to "receive" yet another Government Welfare giveaway.



Originally Posted by MrWondering
If the desperation gets worse, I'd anticipate the Homeland Security Advisory System will increase the terror alert color to Orange (HIGH). After all...a black, radical, muslim, liberal, socialist, communist, infantcidal, media controlling man has obviously hypnotized the American public and is about to win the presidential election.

Well, according to Obama's running mate, Vice Presidential hopeful Joe Biden, Obama WILL get "tested" early in his Presidency. I would HOPE that Homeland Security will raise the alert status in view of Biden's prescient prediction.



Originally Posted by MrWondering
Did I mention..."the polls are tightening...especially amoung WHITE voters" which will be the catch phrase of the coming weeks as figures lie and liars figure. Not only are they hoping for a Bradley effect, they sense their Republican base throwing in the towel and staying at home to avoid the long lines of people at the voting booths and cheering crowds of Obama supporters that will surely be there. They MUST give them some hope to get them to show up on election day.

Ya, and the Democrats won't be doing everything they can, legal and illegal, to "Get out the Vote" and scare their voters with the ridiculous broken record of "stolen elections." And did I mention that 95% of ANY "voting group" votes on anything BUT "one issue?"



Originally Posted by MrWondering
Keep your heads up. I am proud to be a Christian and proud to be a Democrat.

Mr. Wondering

And it is THIS statement, above all the others, that really saddens me. HOW DOES one "justify" voting for someone who seeks to eliminate ANY reduction in the number of abortions and who has actively VOTED to endorse infanticide.

HOW CAN someone who claims to believe in our Lord Jesus Christ "pretend" that they can "overlook" the "flaw" of someone who actively supports Pro-Death for unborn children AND who supports death for those "unlucky" survivors of botched abortion attempts?

HOW DOES one "keep one's head up" when MILLIONS and MILLIONS of innocent children have been slaughtered, the VAST majority of which were "offered up to Baal" on the altar of "convenience" and NOT because the life of mother was threatened, or because of rape, or because of incest? If you want to argue that ALL, or even a majority of abortions were medically necessary or because of rape or incest, I want to know WHO would BELIEVE that? Certainly NOT someone who believes that children are precious and gifts from God, even the "unwanted ones" by their mothers and/or fathers.

"It's the mother's right" to kill what she doesn't want because it's inconvenient to her right to do whatever else she wants to do." Next up, "coming to a Democratic Screen near you....euthansia for the "unwanted sick, deformed, and elderly who are 'inconveniencing' us."

THAT will, at least, be ONE solution to the ever increasing healthcare costs and the drain on Medicare and Social Security, which CONGRESS has gutted and spent anyway. Oh ya, I forgot, the Democrats will always be able to raise the taxes to do whatever they want to do. I wonder how far taking ALL of the money of the 5% that Obama wants to tax will go in meeting the total cost of all of spending plans?



Quote
Keep your heads up. I am proud to be a Christian and proud to be a Democrat.

IMHO, these two things cannot possibly co-exist. No Christian would be in favor of keeping legal the slaughter of God's children.

And before you go back to your silly arguments about republicans not wanting abortions to be illegal...consider that even your own party KNOWS that isn't true.

Democrats keep alive race and class warfare in this country...it helps them garner votes. They continue to make more and more people dependant on the government so that they have a voting block.

You are right about one thing...if Obama were pro-life and McCain pro-abortion (and YES, there is such a thing)..Obama would get my vote despite his obvious socialist leanings. As I have said from the outset of this campaign, I think Obama has a lot going for him (so does McCain) but his stance on the slaughter of unborn children is horrid. No smooth talking or sugar coating can wash the blood off this issue.
Quote
Okay, here we go again. First, this "slam" against "single- issue voters," as if there are not a lot of people who are voting for Obama on a "single-issue."

And for many, those issues are only skin deep.


Quote
HOW CAN someone who claims to believe in our Lord Jesus Christ "pretend" that they can "overlook" the "flaw" of someone who actively supports Pro-Death for unborn children AND who supports death for those "unlucky" survivors of botched abortion attempts?

They can only do that by fooling either themselves or others.


Quote
You know...the funniest thing about this whole episode is that the Republican's trying to defend Mrs. Palin on this encounter PRESUME, based upon her demeanor, that she WAS actually speaking to a 3rd grader. They saw the clip but failed to realize that she was actually speaking to a reporter that asked the question that was merely "written-in" by a 3rd grader. There was no 3rd grader in the room.

NO presuming here......YOU need to watch that clip again!! She was answering a 3rd graders question......Even your LIBERAL, one-sided, biased media outlet NBC reported that she was.
To suggest that a Christian can't be a Democrat is simply wrong.

On November 5th, I will not only pray for President-elect Obama...I will include y'all as well.

Peace,

Mr. Wondering
Originally Posted by JoJo422
Quote
You know...the funniest thing about this whole episode is that the Republican's trying to defend Mrs. Palin on this encounter PRESUME, based upon her demeanor, that she WAS actually speaking to a 3rd grader. They saw the clip but failed to realize that she was actually speaking to a reporter that asked the question that was merely "written-in" by a 3rd grader. There was no 3rd grader in the room.

NO presuming here......YOU need to watch that clip again!! She was answering a 3rd graders question......Even your LIBERAL, one-sided, biased media outlet NBC reported that she was.


Dude,

There was NO 3rd grader present, it just looks that way based upon her demeanor and the camera angle. Brandon may have been watching but he was not even in the building. I could be wrong though...I read it on the internet (I also heard Chris Matthews say it last night).

Quote
On Monday Sarah Palin sat down for an interview with NBC affiliate KUSA. At the end of the interview Palin was asked a write-in question from local 3rd grader Brandon Garcia: "What does the vice president do?" Palin got the answer wrong:

Mr. W
Quote
To suggest that a Christian can't be a Democrat is simply wrong.

I don't think so...in fact, I am sure of it.

Tell you what...for all of you abortion advocates out there...explain the procedure to your kids. I mean after all, if it is the right thing to keep it legal, there should be no problem explaining how mom or dad thinks it is okay that a person allows their unborn baby to be dissected, sliced and diced. Don't make it into this sterile lie that the abortion movement would have you believe. Tell them what really happens.

And the next time you look at your child..imagine it is them that was dismembered and sucked out in pieces.

Wait...don't bother...while you all think a teenager should be taught to put on a condom (no matter the parents wishes) ..THIS truth would be too much for them to handle.

Your kids already know better.

Quote
On November 5th, I will not only pray for President-elect Obama...I will include y'all as well.

I would kindly ask that you not bother...although I pray God removes this shroud from your eyes and heart.
Originally Posted by medc

Medc....I found that very upsetting but then again, I'm against abortion except in some cases (health of the mother, rape)

The folks on the OTHER SIDE will see nothing wrong with this as they do not believe that this is a human life until it's viable outside the womb. faint

HOW SAD IS THAT???
Quote
HOW SAD IS THAT???

Actually, it is pathetic and plain evil.

That was the most tame video I could find.

I believe with all of my heart that many of the abortion supporters will one day look back on their words and support in horror in the same way that many a FWS looks back in disgust at their foggy rationalizations and behaviors. God will remove the blinders and allow them to see the absolute evil that they support...and encourage others to support.

This crime dwarfs infidelity in every respect.
and around and around it goes.

Off topic. Locked
© Marriage Builders® Forums