Want2, these sorts of lies and distortions of the FACTS really are "something else." Granted they are standard "fare" among the "Obamaites," but they are so far from the truth as to be DELIBERATE and INTENDED to mislead the public so that Obama can get the votes that will enable him to bring in HIS idea of Socialism.

I DO work in the insurance industry as an Agent, and I can tell you that Obama's plan WILL destroy healthcare in the USA as we know it.

It WILL be the government who can tell you what you can have and when you can have it. It WILL require MASSIVE increases in taxes on everyone. You seem to have no idea of the true COST of healthcare services, but I can tell you that Doctors will leave their practices and providers like hospitals will close their doors. There is NO FREE LUNCH, but that is what Obama wants us to believe.

Here is the TRUTH about the McCain/Palin Healthcare Plan



For the complete website information, see:

http://www.johnmccain.com/content/d...e&t=healthcare&r=healthcarefacts


The Truth about the McCain-Palin Health Care Plan

Barack Obama And Joe Biden Have Consistently Lied To Americans About John McCain's Plan. Their claims have failed every fact-check – from CBS to the Washington Post. John McCain is not going to raise taxes on middle class families. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are the only ones in this race that plan to raise taxes.


OBAMA FICTION =
John McCain Will Tax Health Care Benefits For The First Time And Will Be the Largest Middle Class Tax Increase In History.


THE FACTS =
This Obama charge is a blatant mischaracterization of the McCain Health Plan. It only focuses on the fact that the value of the employer provided insurance will now show up as additional income for the employees – what he fails to mention – is that John McCain’s generous refundable tax credit ($5,000 for families and $2,500 for individuals) will not only shield millions of families from a tax increase but will actually give them MORE dollars to invest in their health care needs.

The McCain Plan DOES NOT tax:
· Premiums paid by families and individuals
· Employers for providing health care coverage
· Medical expenses like the cost of a procedure or medication
· Insurance claims

Approach Supported By Obama’s Own Advisor: This is an approach supported by Barack Obama's own Senior Economic Advisor Jason Furman who wrote that "we could scrap the current deduction altogether and replace it with progressive tax credits that, together with other changes, would ensure that every American has affordable health insurance."

Better Than "Members of Congress": Under the McCain Plan, your employer can provide you with health insurance as good as a "Member of Congress" (approximately $12,000), and you would pay no more in taxes – regardless of your tax bracket. In fact, you would have additional money left over from the McCain tax credit to put in a health savings account.

Income Tax Liability____________McCain-Palin Tax Credit__Total Tax Savings
10% Bracket (Up to $15,000) $1,200 ($12,000 x 10%) $5,000 +$3,800

15% Bracket ($15,650 - $63,700) $1,800 ($12,000 x 15%) $5,000 +$3,200

25% Bracket ($63,700 - $128,500)$3,000 ($12,000 x 25%) $5,000 +$2,000

28% Bracket ($128,500 - $195,850)$3,360 ($12,000 x 28%) $5,000 +$1,640

33% Bracket ($195,850 - $349,700)$3,960 ($12,000 x 33%) $5,000 +$1,040
35% Bracket ($349,700 and Over) $4,200 ($12,000 x 35%) $5,000 +$800

Where Is The Middle-Class "Tax Increase"?

If you or your family is in the 28% bracket, with an income of $180,000, you could receive employer provided health insurance even better than a Member of Congress, with a cost of almost $18,000, with no increase in taxes. Even the liberal leaning Tax Policy Center, agrees that the McCain proposals will result in a "net tax benefit" of more than $1,200 for an average tax payer. A recent Lewin Group study estimated savings of more than $1,400 per American family – almost three times the savings as under the Obama plan.


OBAMA FICTION =
The McCain Plan Will Reduce Medicare Spending By Billions By “Cutting Benefits, Eligibility or Both.”

THE FACTS =
John McCain believes that we can achieve savings in Medicare without reducing benefits or eligibility. He has proposed common-sense reforms that will not only put Medicare on a path of financial stability but ensure access to quality care for millions of Americans. Some of the policies proposed by the McCain plan include:

· Promote payment reform that allows us to move away from the current fragmented and volume-based service to a system which rewards coordinated and quality focused care.

· Eliminate Medicare fraud and abuse to ensure that nearly $60 billion a year, almost 10 percent of total Medicare spending, that goes to line the pocket of criminals instead of providing quality care for seniors.

· Ensure that drug premiums for the wealthiest Americans are not being subsidized by the middle class.

· Promote a new generation of treatment models that better manage chronic care conditions while rewarding prevention and wellness.

· Greater use of Health IT and medical homes to promote greater co-ordination of care.

· Reduce drug costs by allowing greater use of generics (including bio-generics).

The Obama Spin: If some of the proposals above sound familiar to Senator Obama’s proposals including – better managing chronic care diseases, greater use of health IT, promoting prevention and greater use of generic drugs - because they are. Only the liberal media and the Obama campaign would characterize similar proposals as “savings” in the their plan and “cutting benefits, eligibility or both” in the McCain plan.


OBAMA FICTION =
John McCain Will Tax Health Care Benefits For The First Time And Send The Money Straight To The Insurance Companies.

THE FACTS =
Another desperate attack by the Obama campaign. Here is what they purposefully fail to mention – the credit goes to the insurance company that the American family chooses to get coverage from, anywhere in the nation. The power of choice lies with the family – not government bureaucrats or insurance companies.

· Putting Families In Charge: Under the McCain Plan American families will not only decide where the tax credit should be directed for their coverage needs but any additional money left over after purchasing coverage will be controlled by the family in a portable health savings account. Ridiculing this line of strange attack, The Associated Press stated, "Of course it would, because it's meant to pay for insurance. That's like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer."

· Obama Criticizing His Own Approach: Most importantly, Senator Obama is criticizing an approach that is used by his own HOPE credits – where tax payer money simply goes from the federal government to colleges.


OBAMA FICTION =
Americans With Pre-Existing Condition Under The McCain Plan Will Not Find Coverage.

THE FACTS =
John McCain believes that no American should be denied access to quality and affordable coverage simply because of a pre-existing condition. As President, John McCain will work with governors to develop a best practice model that states can follow – a Guaranteed Access Plan or GAP – that would reflect the best experience of the states to ensure these patients have access to health coverage. There would be reasonable limits on premiums, and assistance would be available for Americans below a certain income level.


OBAMA FICTION =
The McCain Health Plan Will Damage Employer Provided Insurance For Millions of Americans.

THE FACTS =
The McCain health plan builds on the employer-based system. Employers will have the same incentive to provide health insurance as they do today since they will continue to deduct the cost of health insurance they provide to employees.

· Millions With Employer Coverage Will Do Better Under The McCain Plan: Millions of American families with employer sponsored coverage in all tax brackets with the same coverage as a "Members of Congress" will now come out ahead with additional funds going into a portable health savings account. Importantly, younger and healthier employees with the McCain health care tax credit will have a bigger incentive to stay with the employers. For example, a 25-year-old employee in the 25 percent tax bracket with a $2,500 tax credit could either purchase a policy in the individual market for the same amount or stay with his employer plan and receive a $5,000 policy with an additional $1,250 to invest in a portable health savings account. Why would people choose fewer benefits for more money?

So Why Is Barack Obama Hiding Details About His Plan?

1. Barack Obama's Plan Will Harm Employer Coverage

The Obama plan includes a $179 billion a year employer mandate. The mandate requires employers to either provide "meaningful" coverage or pay a tax towards the government plan. Faced with tough economic conditions and rising health costs this creates a clear incentive for employers to drop coverage and move families into the new government plan. A Lewin Group study which examined a similar employer mandate combined with a national plan, like the Obama plan, concluded that almost 52 million individuals would lose their private employer coverage. To maintain their competitive edge, others employers will follow - spelling the demise of the employer coverage system.

2. Barack Obama's Plan Continues The Push Toward Government-Run Healthcare

The Obama plan will create a brand new government-run health plan at the cost of $243 billion a year – a financial burden of more than $3,000 a year on American families.

3. Barack Obama's Plan Will Damage Private Coverage

The government-run plan will have a clear advantage over private insurance since it will be subsidized by American taxpayers. A recent analysis of both plans by the nonpartisan CATO Institute concluded that the Obama government-run plan will be able to "keep its premiums artificially low…since it can turn to the U.S. Treasury to cover any shortfalls" resulting in "undercutting the private market." According to Wall Street Journal, the goal of the Obama plan "…like HillaryCare in the 1990s, is to displace current private coverage and switch people to the default government option."

Right, and Lilly White McCain/Palin would not stoop to untruthful robocalls flooding the phone lines, never. The truth must matter to them more than their desire to win... . An honest politician is an oxymoron.

AGG

What's your point? So he's up in the polls....it still does not mean that he is the best person for the job. DOES IT?

It still does not mean that he is EXPERIENCED...DOES IT?? A poll does not give him any more experience than he has.

It still does not mean that his policies and what he plans to do is what will be best for this country.... DOES IT??

I'd like to see where your EDUCATED IDIOT would be if we had an un-biased MEDIA. A media that told the WHOLE truth not just a LIBERAL SLANTED truth.

We'll never know though will we since the MEDIA will NEVER tell anything but what will further their own AGENDA..which is Liberal/socialist Politics

AGG, don't you have anything better to do that "nitpick" when everyone KNEW exactly what Palin meant....as her Constitutionally appointed position as PRESIDENT of the Senate, she IS the "one in charge" from a Constitutional standpoint, and EXERCISES her "charge" in the event of a tie vote between the Senators.

As Vice President she WOULD talk with various members of Congress, both Senators and Congressmen, to "argue for" things the President would want.

Guess what? The same holds true for ALL Vice Presidents.


In the "day to day" operations of the Senate, not even the "President Pro-Tempore" Robert Byrd is in charge of the "day to day" operating of the Senate, the Majority Leader is.

I swear the Libs are scared to death of Sarah Palin, a truly liberated woman.

This is assuming that the 3rd grader knows what an agenda is and what it means to 'promote the agenda'.

My 4th grader's 'agenda' is the spiral book that she brings home everyday with her homework assignments listed in it.

So take her understanding of what an 'agenda' is and read your explaination. Do you still think it makes sense on a 3rd grade level??

Want2, have you ever heard the one:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time,

You can fool all of the people some of the time,

But you can't fool all of the people all of the time."?


That has been the BASIS of Obama's mantra of "Change."

He does NOT like to talk about the specfics of his change, and when he DOES talk about it, it is all about Socialism, income redistribution, negotiating without preconditions, and about NOT drilling for our own oil (but simply inflate our tires to make the oil importing problem go away).

Obama DOES mean to change America, but he intends to change it into a Socialist/Marxist type of country. VERY "Constitutional" of him.

And I also mention that he is AGAINST the Second Amendment and AGAINST States Rights in the area of Abortion? His "change" is to make it IMPOSSIBLE for any State to limit any abortion for any reason.

His "change" is even for infanticide to be "okay," and has both argued that way and voted that way.

And some people are "worried" that Palin said the VP was "in charge" of the Senate???

"Some of the people ALL of the time." Yep. That's Barack. And if he can just fool "all of the people until he gets his hands on actual power....", the ends justify his means.

Gotcha. You like to find ways to rationalize and justify the actions of Obama and his supporters.

Interesting that you totally ignored the TRUTH about the McCain/Paling healthcare plan though.

But that's what the Liberals do.....

If the Liberal Media had said nothing about what Palin said, hadn't made this big todo about nothing, had treated what she said as a legitament answer to a 3rd grader, which is what it was, NOT ONE LIBERAL would be harping on this.

They all follow the LIBERAL MEDIA with baited breath. If the Liberal Media doesn't make a big deal of something, then neither do they.

It's really scary how they follow Obama and the Liberal Media like they are a bunch of sheep without minds of their own... attacking others for not following too.....

They better make sure they Don't drink the kool-aid at any of the Obama rallies.

You know...the funniest thing about this whole episode is that the Republican's trying to defend Mrs. Palin on this encounter PRESUME, based upon her demeanor, that she WAS actually speaking to a 3rd grader. They saw the clip but failed to realize that she was actually speaking to a reporter that asked the question that was merely "written-in" by a 3rd grader. There was no 3rd grader in the room.

<<<<squeeeek>>>>

Another thing I find so disingenous about this whole debate is when self-admitted single-issue voters jump in discussing other issues that they clearly care nothing about. If Obama were pro-life and McCain pro-choice, their entire view would do a 180. McCain would be the socialist because he (and the Republicans) bailed out Wall Street, McCain's health care plan would destroy the world, McCain's adultery WOULD magically matter, Obama's resume would be GREAT (just as Bush's was over Al Gore and John Kerry), etc.

It's clearly just a throw mud at the wall and see what sticks attitude that, to me, quite frankly, has been the biggest turnoff about the Republican Party for going on 14 years.

If the desperation gets worse, I'd anticipate the Homeland Security Advisory System will increase the terror alert color to Orange (HIGH). After all...a black, radical, muslim, liberal, socialist, communist, infantcidal, media controlling man has obviously hypnotized the American public and is about to win the presidential election.

Did I mention..."the polls are tightening...especially amoung WHITE voters" which will be the catch phrase of the coming weeks as figures lie and liars figure. Not only are they hoping for a Bradley effect, they sense their Republican base throwing in the towel and staying at home to avoid the long lines of people at the voting booths and cheering crowds of Obama supporters that will surely be there. They MUST give them some hope to get them to show up on election day.


btw... a word of encouragement to my democrat friends (you know who you are...you are the ones that despite the polls still think there is some way that McCain is going to pull off an upset <Tucker>):

Did you know that the last time the Republicans won a Presidential Election without the name Nixon or Bush on the ticket as President or Vice President was 1928?

Keep your heads up. I am proud to be a Christian and proud to be a Democrat.

Mr. Wondering

I try to avoid political posts like this. I can't stand it when it gets so heated. That being said, my friend sent me a funny photo shop picture of obama and Palin. I wanted to know if there is any way I can attach it to a post.

Mr W...

Amazing the thread is not locked yet. I respect anyone's position because everyone has a diff perspective. I lean more Conservative. GOP has disappointed me to no end in the past few years. Tax and spend or Borrow and spend - no difference - just stop the bleeding before it is all lost.

I suspect that if or when Obama does win, the Blue Dogs within the Dem party will save us from the left side.

I wonder if the GOP will have a complete meltdown and will burn down in ashes. It may take a generation before another Reagan comes along to bring back some life.

Okay, here we go again. First, this "slam" against "single- issue voters," as if there are not a lot of people who are voting for Obama on a "single-issue."

Do you REALLY believe that there aren't OTHER issues also of great importance? I KNOW that there are for me, even though Obama's support for abortion and infanticide IS the BIGGEST reason I can't vote for him, anymore than I would vote for any candidate who wanted to continue killing millions of innocent children just so he can pander to the pro-death for babies crowd.

However, if that wasn't bad enough, then the argument procedes to manufacture a scenario out of whole cloth and attempts to use that scenario to "prove" that supporters of John McCain are "disingenuos." Let's be perfectly frank here, and I won't speak for anyone but myself, we are NOT voting on any imaginary "hypothetical reversal" of positions by the candidates.

We are voting on THEIR positions period, on WHAT IS, and not on some hypothetical. But I suppose if one wanted to "play this game," AND assume the illogical premise of the argument, then ALL of the current supporters of Obama would "switch sides" and vote for McCain, because Obama would then be presenting Pro-life, Pro-Second Amendment, Pro-Capitalism, Pro-education(not in the tank of Teachers Unions), Pro-Domestic Oil and energy production, etc. platforms. It would be McCain who was being elitist and telling Pennsylvanians that they cling to their guns and religion. And the Democrats would "magically" become Republicans, just as this hypothetical argument tries to "make a case" that McCain supporters would "become" Democrats.





Give me a break. You want to argue that Obama and the Democrats are "lilly white" and have not thrown mud, not to mention outright LIES and DISTORTIONS of TRUTH all over the entire house???

This sort of thing has been "stock in trade" for Democrats for as long as I can remember. Does ANYONE believe that Bill Clinton didn't lie through his teeth? Does ANYONE NOT believe that Bill Clinton and his democrat supports sought to viciously attack anyone they didn't like? Ever hear of Paula Jones, or any of the women that Clinton lusted after?

Whitewater?

Vince Foster?

And now comes Obama who will saying anything to anyone to get elected, while he tries as hard as he can hide the TRUTH about his beliefs and positions. Does ANYONE believe that he was so STUPID and NAIVE to be able to sit in Rev. Wright's pews for 20 YEARS and NOT know, and approve of by virtue of his REMAINING there and NOT leaving until Wright "offended" him personally?

Does ANYONE believe that Obama did NOT know and approve of Bill Ayers decidedly leftist, anti-American views? Does ANYONE not believe that Obama "paid back" Tony Rezko, and several others, including some who went to Communist rallies as supporters, with TAXPAYER money?

NOW Obama wants to "spread the grease" around to "95%" of the people AND increase spending by ONE TRILLION DOLLARS in ADDITION to the "financial rescue package" of 700 Million?

Does ANYONE NOT believe that Obama and the Democrats were trying to "sneak in a HUGE taxpayer payoff" to ACORN in the first "rescue package" that they want to blame McCain and Republicans for refusing to let them have their way?

Does ANYONE NOT believe that Bill Clinton, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, and a host of other Democrats were RESPONSIBLE for the financial meltdown caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all in the interest of "spreading the wealth around?" By the way, WHAT EXACTLY DID Obama tell "Joe the Plumber" that HE wants to do as President? More of "spread the wealth around." Of course it will be according to who Obama thinks gets to "pay" and who gets to "receive" yet another Government Welfare giveaway.




Well, according to Obama's running mate, Vice Presidential hopeful Joe Biden, Obama WILL get "tested" early in his Presidency. I would HOPE that Homeland Security will raise the alert status in view of Biden's prescient prediction.




Ya, and the Democrats won't be doing everything they can, legal and illegal, to "Get out the Vote" and scare their voters with the ridiculous broken record of "stolen elections." And did I mention that 95% of ANY "voting group" votes on anything BUT "one issue?"




And it is THIS statement, above all the others, that really saddens me. HOW DOES one "justify" voting for someone who seeks to eliminate ANY reduction in the number of abortions and who has actively VOTED to endorse infanticide.

HOW CAN someone who claims to believe in our Lord Jesus Christ "pretend" that they can "overlook" the "flaw" of someone who actively supports Pro-Death for unborn children AND who supports death for those "unlucky" survivors of botched abortion attempts?

HOW DOES one "keep one's head up" when MILLIONS and MILLIONS of innocent children have been slaughtered, the VAST majority of which were "offered up to Baal" on the altar of "convenience" and NOT because the life of mother was threatened, or because of rape, or because of incest? If you want to argue that ALL, or even a majority of abortions were medically necessary or because of rape or incest, I want to know WHO would BELIEVE that? Certainly NOT someone who believes that children are precious and gifts from God, even the "unwanted ones" by their mothers and/or fathers.

"It's the mother's right" to kill what she doesn't want because it's inconvenient to her right to do whatever else she wants to do." Next up, "coming to a Democratic Screen near you....euthansia for the "unwanted sick, deformed, and elderly who are 'inconveniencing' us."

THAT will, at least, be ONE solution to the ever increasing healthcare costs and the drain on Medicare and Social Security, which CONGRESS has gutted and spent anyway. Oh ya, I forgot, the Democrats will always be able to raise the taxes to do whatever they want to do. I wonder how far taking ALL of the money of the 5% that Obama wants to tax will go in meeting the total cost of all of spending plans?

IMHO, these two things cannot possibly co-exist. No Christian would be in favor of keeping legal the slaughter of God's children.

And before you go back to your silly arguments about republicans not wanting abortions to be illegal...consider that even your own party KNOWS that isn't true.

Democrats keep alive race and class warfare in this country...it helps them garner votes. They continue to make more and more people dependant on the government so that they have a voting block.

You are right about one thing...if Obama were pro-life and McCain pro-abortion (and YES, there is such a thing)..Obama would get my vote despite his obvious socialist leanings. As I have said from the outset of this campaign, I think Obama has a lot going for him (so does McCain) but his stance on the slaughter of unborn children is horrid. No smooth talking or sugar coating can wash the blood off this issue.

And for many, those issues are only skin deep.



They can only do that by fooling either themselves or others.

NO presuming here......YOU need to watch that clip again!! She was answering a 3rd graders question......Even your LIBERAL, one-sided, biased media outlet NBC reported that she was.

To suggest that a Christian can't be a Democrat is simply wrong.

On November 5th, I will not only pray for President-elect Obama...I will include y'all as well.

Peace,

Mr. Wondering

Dude,

There was NO 3rd grader present, it just looks that way based upon her demeanor and the camera angle. Brandon may have been watching but he was not even in the building. I could be wrong though...I read it on the internet (I also heard Chris Matthews say it last night).


Mr. W

I don't think so...in fact, I am sure of it.

Tell you what...for all of you abortion advocates out there...explain the procedure to your kids. I mean after all, if it is the right thing to keep it legal, there should be no problem explaining how mom or dad thinks it is okay that a person allows their unborn baby to be dissected, sliced and diced. Don't make it into this sterile lie that the abortion movement would have you believe. Tell them what really happens.

And the next time you look at your child..imagine it is them that was dismembered and sucked out in pieces.

Wait...don't bother...while you all think a teenager should be taught to put on a condom (no matter the parents wishes) ..THIS truth would be too much for them to handle.

Your kids already know better.


I would kindly ask that you not bother...although I pray God removes this shroud from your eyes and heart.

Medc....I found that very upsetting but then again, I'm against abortion except in some cases (health of the mother, rape)

The folks on the OTHER SIDE will see nothing wrong with this as they do not believe that this is a human life until it's viable outside the womb.

HOW SAD IS THAT???