I posted this in another forum and triggered a thread jack, so I'm putting it here for people to smash with axes, picks and sledge hammers, if they wish. The original post is in bold.

Tattoos matter because they are a mark of the underclass and being in the underclass welcomes you to a world of hurt.

Some, likely male tattooist, has left his mark on you, it used to be that slaves were tattooed. On top of that tattoos render a person asymmetric and asymmetry is a form of ugliness. Even where symmetric they are still a blemish. Beautify skin is clear skin.

My opinion is that people today get them because of a feeling of body inadequacy, but for the aforementioned facts it dosen't help.

Even in these modern times a man looks at a woman with a tattoo and says shes easy and not worth a long term relationship.

Somehow people with no money always seem to scrape up enough for cigarettes, tattoos and beer.

God Bless
NJ

PS at least piercings are cheaper to heal than they cost.

I also move my post so as to not T/J


I have 3 tattoo's, my ears are pierced 9 times. I did have a navel piercing but it interfered with my work so I removed it. I also drink beer, and from time to time I smoke, particularly when under alot of stress. I usually give up when the stresses are removed.

What a gross generalization to say that 'I' belong to an underclass of citizens. Yes 2 of the tatooists were male, one was female. I don't see at all what that has to do with anything. I have had male and female doctors. Their gender had little to do with their ability to perform their duties in an expert fashion.

My DH also has a tattoo. Our joint earning put us in the high income bracket. Neither of us has a body dismorphic issue, in fact I believe for our age we look pretty good! People often think we are younger than we are.

FWIW, I have tattoo's and OW did not, yet Flick returned to me. He was in his A when I got the most recent one done and in fact watched it being applied. I had one when we met and got the 2nd 3 years into our marriage, which BTW is when he got his.

I found this post to be grossly offensive. I hope the thread owner realises her worth as an individual lays not in what others think, but in what she thinks of herself.

I don't like them. That doesnt' mean that I don't like people who have them.

Hmmm-

I am asymmetric, but not because I have a tattoo. Rather, because I had breast cancer and chose to have a radical modified mastectomy but no reconstruction. I figured one scar with trauma to my body was enough. Besides, I like my abdominal muscles right where they are-thank you very much. (And the thought of implants gives me the heeby-jeebies).

The tattoo I chose is the Hebrew word for hope and Jeremiah 29:11 in script. I chose to have it strategically placed (center of my upper back) as a reminder that I carry God's hope and promise with me everywhere. That verse became a lifeline for me during my whole A/cancer and chemo survival journey.

My decision to get a tattoo doesn't fit with that "underclass" classification either. I'm fairly somewhere in the middle class and well educated-master's degree, currently doing post-graduate studies, in a professional career etc.

Tattoos have not been exclusively the mark of slaves either. They have a history of being a form of beauty and of identifying an extended family member in different cultures. (I also think branding was historically used more often than tattoos for marking one's human chattel. It was quicker and cheaper.)

I don't think I would get a tattoo that shows all the time, but I have thought about getting a phoenix over my scar, because I feel like I've come out of the flames renewed and ready for a new life.

My body had already been altered by cancer and chemo where the port created another scar on my chest below my collarbone. Getting the tattoo was a way to add some significance to this experience which had already changed my symmetry.

That's my story-FWIW

Johnstwin,

Thank you for posting. I was trying to find the right words and couldn't. I feel the exact same way. I too had breast cancer. Bilat mastectomy. Chemo port, scars, radiation tattoo's.

I am so beyond being symmetrical it's not funny. My body looks like I got into a fight with a chainsaw.....and I lost.

I also got a tattoo, three hearts. One bigger than the other two. They signify my love for my husband and two boys.

If I was weak enough to buy into his post, I would feel like a very unattractive, ill educated, unworthy human being. People need to really think about what they post and how it could affect someone.

So because my body is not symmetric, I am ugly. Because I have blemishes, I am not beautiful.

That is a load of crap!

At least I'm not judgemental of people because of their appearance. I am a better person than that.

I don't have any tattoos. I would not place persons with tattoos in an "underclass" of any sort. I do believe there is tattoo "culture" that exists. That culture consists of people from many walks of life.

A couple of my favorite tv shows are Miami Ink and LA Ink on TLC which shine some light on today's tattoo culture in the U.S.

Tattoos go back thousands of years, exist throughout the world and serve many purposes.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/tattoo.html

Cemintry, even if true, is overated

Tatoo's is just cool

Unless you's is old and saggy

Mr. W

Mr. W.

ROFLOL
That, Mr. W., is why placement is so important.

Beam

While I don't understand the purpose of NJ's post, I will say that I can understand his view. Remember that attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder.

While I am not a big fan of tattoos on women...IMHO, it makes them look a little "trashy"..I understand and appreciate that others feel differently.

Different strokes for different folks.

I work with nothing but highly educated people. Master degrees & PhDs for the world’s largest and most successful Semiconductor/Micro Processor company (90K+ emps). More than not, my colleagues have Tats. IMHO, its time for YOU to catch up on your not so accurate assumptions.


Well thankfully, much like the abolishment of slavery NJ, we are evolving ourselves away from those very BAD human practices where one is judged by what they look like. Maybe its time for you to join in, yes?


I challenge you to name one person on this earth who is perfectly and completely symmetrical and/or has perfectly flawless skin from head to toe. You can't because there is no such perfection.


Although I sport no Tats myself, I'm sure each and every person who does has their own reasons. I would be careful about assigning blanket statements regarding people's reasons or people in general based on their appearence, considering you don't live in THEIR skin.

God Bless,
Jo

I find it really hard to respect a girl with a tramp stamp. Other than that, I don't really care one way or another.

Tramp Stamp???

I am not sure I understand this.

Are the cancer survivor’s tramps?
Is trampy-ness imbedded along with the ink?
Do tramps naturally gravitate towards tattoos?

The "tramp stamp" is usualy referred to as the tat across the lower back just above your bum crack. The type that seem to be preferred by the ladies.

and you often end up getting an eyefull of that along with the bum crack and g-string that makes such a nice accompanyment when you are out in a restaurant.

Perhaps I need to find classier places to eat.

A few years ago I was in the hospital waiting room while my H was having surgery. A very bored 4 year old, cute as heck African American girl, and I starting playing this game of "count the ladies" in the magazines. We got to one page that showed a woman's nekkid back down to the top of her behind, which sported a large tattoo. My little friend blurted out "SHE'S NASTAY!!" The whole place erupted in laughter!

Bigkahuna,

Want to learn a little "hip" lingo? The g string protruding out of ones trousers is called of all things, a "whale tale."

When I heard that I nearly fell on the floor laughing.

I wouldn't worry about it, lil.

Hey, I used to believe that people who had tattoos were going to hell. (I think that was from my grandma, who may not like them. I'm going to ask her about that.) I also thought that churches were safe in storms, like God wouldn't make lightning hit them. LOL!

I don't have any tattoos or any piercings. (I have enough holes in my head already, LOL!)

I have thought about it before, though. The other night on a break, tattoos were the big discussion amongst classmates. Hey, I know where to go if I decide to get one!! I was thinking about something in a discreet area or maybe one that just peeks out of the cleavage.

I don't know why there's such a mindset about tattoos. I mean, what about people in the military? Are they tramps, too? Let's see someone tell THAT to a Marine!

Charlotte

I'm not worreid about it, I just find it interesting that if what i am reading is correct, OW is a more classy lady than me.

All my tats BTW are hidden in a one piece swim suit, and one is hidden in a 2 piece.


Oh I can SO relate

Lil,

Don't take it personally. It is actually a very common nickname for a tattoo located on the lower middle of ones back, just peeking above the belt line.

I am a breast cancer survivor with radiation tattoo's all over my chest and side. I also have 3 lovely tattoo's on by upper tush (right below belt line) that represent the love I have for my FWH and 2 boys. And I am the furthest thing from a tramp.

My niece has a "tramp stamp" (kind of pretty) and she even refers to it as her "tramp stamp." It strictly refers to the location and type of tattoo.

Like I said, I have radiation tattoos. Not a tramp. Heart tattoos. Not a tramp. Niece has "tramp stamp" tattoo on lower back, also not a tramp.

I do however think that there are nice tattoos and trashy ones too. A beautiful cross or the portrait of a lost loved one, those are nice. A dragon lady with a split tongue, riding a bull side saddle while naked showing her wares......well, that's a little trashy to me. :MrEEk:

Beam

I thought that was an instant fine in your country??

Yep, you need to upgrade from Macca's

I read a tattoo magazine a few years back where a breast cancer survivor had submitted pics. She had the twisting scars coloured to look like thorny rose stems and ended up with a beautiful rose bouquet resting slightly to the side of her heart. It was beautiful.

I have a heart with a butterfly over it, 2 roses in a tribal style, and a fern. Flick has a whale

I seen her too. She was an woman of age, correct? (I am trying to be politically correct :RollieEyes:) There was another one that had beautiful purple flowers in a vine kind of design covering her scars. They are brave women to say the least.

OK Lil, I get the heart with butterfly, the 2 roses in a tribal and fern, but Flick and the whale? I am sooo curious.

Beam

Is it a Sperm Whale?



Charlotte

I'm really starting to desire a tattoo now!!!

I think a "tramp stamp" might be quite sexy!

Hmmmmm.........

What to do, what to do?

WHERE to do?

You really wouldn't believe the really classy places I have see this.

LOL, more of a virile Orca

Originally he had 2 dolphins, but did'nt like the way they looked. He wanted to keep the nautical theme and the artist designed an Orca to go over top.

As far as what you might want and where to locate it... Flick is seriously thinking of getting something like a sheild designed with the hat and crossed axes of the fire brigade, a radio mic, and a cow on it to represent the important things in his life. He'll probably get it on his other arm.

For anyone else I think it depends on why you are getting one. I have mine discreetly located because my tats are a part, not the whole of who I am. However I know many women who have them much more openly placed.

*shudder*

Lil,

OK, here I go again. I get the nautical whale orca. I get the "sheild designed with the hat and crossed axes of the fire brigade, a radio mic." But a cow? I have to say, I like that Flick has variety! So why a cow?

I think I like this thread. At least it makes me smile.

Beam

Pleased your getting a chuckle.

We are dairy famers.
Thats why a cow.
The FB stuff because he has been a volunteer for 7 years now, the mic because he is a jock, has been for 15 odd year.

If I was to design one it would have babies, something about midwifery, a resturant, a cow, a motorbike, and garlic

There's a very large underclass walking about then because I know of very few young people who don't have tats and I work at a University. Girls and boys have them and these are mainly middle class college educated kids.

I don't have any myself but I'm old and, yes, tats were frowned on when I was young - so were pierced ears lol. My DS has lots of tats. My DD doesn't have any.

NJ, if you google "Ta Moko" you will find a rich history of tattooing in the South Pacific. Here it was used to define tribal affliliations, as decoration, as a coming of age rite of passage. It's of great cultural significance to the people's of the South Pacific (and absolutely nothing to do with slavery).

Lil, I bet your tats are as cute as all get out.

ETA for BigK - one of the funniest lines in "40 year old Virgin" was when the girl is bending over and her g string is showing and the "virgin" whispers to his friend "there's something wrong with her underpants."

as one person said there are "nice" tattoos and "not so nice" tattoos. you can also look at it like this-it is also someones art work, someones time and effort. im 31 and got my first tattoo in feb, i got my second a month later. both are butterflies. my mom---who is against them said it was pretty-. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i would not discriminate against someone just cause they have a tattoo(s). its not whats on the outside that really matters but whats in your heart.. how you treat others. besides most people who get tattoos get them when they are young and foolish (others wait 15 yrs to get one-like me lol)

Hi,

So because my body is not symmetric, I am ugly. Because I have blemishes, I am not beautiful.

I don't know if you are ugly or not, I would guess that you are less attractive than you were because of your scarring. When Playboy has a special issue dedicated to post-mastectomy women I will believe that we have rewired the human brain to be more accepting. Are you saying we should deny what seems to be hard coded into our brains, just to be polite and acceptable.

I think our perception and response to beauty is both innate and cultural.

Some studies indicate that babies are draw more towards symmetric faces.

And blemishes do subtract from your beauty. How may runway models have port wine blotches. Given the choice would you eliminate your blemishes if you could.

I know Cindy Crawford has a blemish on her face but it is not large and there is only one. Somewhat like the asymmetric hood ornament on the Studibaker Avanti by Industrial designer Raymond Loewy. I won't deny that a small asymmetric feature provide interest, but the difference in size of the two doors on the AMC pacer was just plain ugly.

NJ

NJ, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You will be amazed how growing older (or in your case just growing up period) will completely change your world view and tolerance and perception of worth.

One day the scales will fall from your eyes.

At the moment you remind me of the hilarious Mad magazine cartoon with the back view of three teenage boys talking about three teenage girls (the usual, "what a dog" etc etc) and then the front view of the boys shows - and there they are - acne, snaggle teeth, funny haircuts, crooked noses.

BTW, I wouldn't eliminate one of my "blemishes", I love them all - they are me. Who the heck wants to look like a runway model anyway?

and when one attains their definition of beauty from Playboy it is time to reflect on ones maturity. Silicone, airbrushing, fake nails, boobs, plastic surgery, special lighting, etc... do not beauty make.

NJ,

Given the choice, there are a lot of things I would eliminate. I would start with eliminating juvenile, immature, uncaring people the ability to post something that has the potential of hurting another's self esteem and self worth.

WTH?

When Playboy actually produces subscribers with more than a 14 year old sexual disposition, I will believe that we have a classier society with more realistic expectations of what is real/fake/toxic and acceptable.

I will feel sorry for your wife when she starts to show the aging process.

NJ,
Seeing that you had few posts to your name and being as nosy as I am I read thru a few. Here's what I have gleaned.

You are an OC who was adopted out. You are a cancer survivor. You have adopted a 180 plan in your M for undisclosed reasons. Neither you or your W have had an A, emotional or physical.
You started posting by giving advice to many people after "lurking for some months". This to date is the only thread you have ever started.

Who are you and what is your story?

I have one crooked tooth BTW, yet I am considered to be reasonably attractive. The only 'blemish' I would have removed is a scar on my forehead from having chicken pox as a child and even I know that is pure vanity.

I believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder. While PA may be high on your list of EN's it is not to most people. Even my H who has it as #2 can admire attractiveness in women most would consider to be plain.

As far as Playboy being an indication of what is attractive in today’s world, when I feel the need to be so underweight that I grow lanugo as most of the models have, as well has have my perfectly functioning bosom blown up to the size of melons, I will know I have truly lost my mind .

NJ is married???? I thought he was about 15.

BeamMeUp, in this case I think you'd be forgiven a WTF.

Jen,

I don't think you are giving most 15 year olds enough credit . For 13 years old, my DS has way more compassion and so do his fellow peers. His peers remind me constantly how good I look (I do a lot of volunteering at his school.)

But that was funny

Hear, hear

BTW Jen, thanks for the sweet comment about my pictures

And good point about the cultural aspect. NZ has such a high intergration (marriage/activities/education) with the polynesian comunities, its almost compulsory

I have a couple of those "blemishes" that Cindy Crawford has on my face (technically called moles-but also referred to as beauty marks). They are on the same side of my face as a unique birth defect that some folks have. The unique thing about this birth defect is that it is often considered quite attractive.

You see, for those of us with this birth defect, certain palates in our face don't join completely in the womb. So, when we smile-we have dimples!

Hope that's not on the "bad blemish" list.

I, at the age of 28, got my first tattoo in remembrance of my late Grandmother. It is white orchids with a dusty rose centre, as they were her favourite flower. She passed away when I was 11, so 17 years ago, and I have this tattoo as a memorial to her.

It is very pretty, and located on the back of my right shoulder.

I am not at all trashy because of it. In fact, I am quite proud to show it off.

The OP is quite ignorant about tattoo art, and the people who showcase them. Too bad he is so closed minded.

NewJersey...

I'm curious if any of these posts have gotten through to you enough for you to realize that your stereotyping of people that have tattoos is pretty silly...I know I'd sure be willing to respect you if you could take a good hard look at yourself and admit that perhaps you misspoke...

It may certainly be true that the people that *YOU'VE* encountered that have tattoos fit the description in your first post, though I question how well you got to know any of them in order to REALLY know who they were/are...I think you really do have to be careful that you aren't putting ALL people with tattoos in that category...It would only take ONE example to refute your claims, and just based on the posts that you've received so far, I believe you can see that there are certainly examples that DO NOT fit into your little box...Stereotyping is BAD NEWS...

To give you an example of how ridiculous sterotypes are, NewJersey, based solely upon your name, I presume that you either live in New Jersey now or at sometime in your life did...I would venture a guess that you are originally from there even...Now, I've only been to New Jersey ONE measely time in my life...as a child...Atlantic City to be exact...To be frank, I have memories of a pretty seedy place, and also a memory of a very garish looking woman saying loudly to my parents, with an incredibly nasal accent, "Where'd ya get the bloooooondie?". She was referring to me since I'm the only blonde in my family. I remember at the time thinking how tacky and classless that particular woman SEEMED...NewJersey, would you like it if I thought of you that way, JUST because you live(d) in New Jersey? Would that be a fair or accurate assessment of you? Would it be correct for me to conclude, that "ALL people in New Jersey are garish, tacky and rude"??? Um, yeah, that sounds pretty ignorant doesn't it? Perhaps something you should think about, eh?

I look forward to your reply...

Mrs. W

Tell it Mrs. W I like the way you did that. Very classy and to the point. Gotta love it.

Some people see tats as art. Like the tattoo artist and his/her clients. Just because someone has some qualities you may not agree with it doesn't mean that they are bad. It is just one more point that goes to showing we are all different and due to those differences both the good ones and the bad ones make for a very interest ride on this journey we call life. Variety is the spice of life. I for one love to try different things as well as trying to see things from others points' of view. Doing things like this keeps you from having tunnel vision. I for one never try and judge a book by it's cover. What you see on the outside could very well be false advertising. Some of the most attractive people spend all their time and energy focusing on their outside and then when you get to know them you see that what looks good to you is not always good for you. If their attitudes don't match with their physical who want to bother with people like that?

It is just like saying that all men are evil because you saw one do something horrible to someone, like rape or maim, yet they have plenty of men that don't do things like that. Having a tattoo does not mean your are lower class anymore than having more money than someone else mean you are of higher class. Frankly they have quite a few people with money that act downright shameful. So you need to let the judgments go and get to know people before you just write them off. Lots of people lose out on really good friends by doing things like that.

I have to say I have to agree with what everyone aside from what NJ had to say. I think he sounds young and inexperienced. Placing value on someone solely because of the way they look is something a child would do. Someone said they feel sorry for your wife when she starts showing signs of age. I want to ask what if she is in an accident and disfigured? What if you were? Would you expect her to leave you for someone who is symmetrical because you no longer are? What if your hair started to thin? Are you less worthy of her love because you don't have the same full head of hair you did when you first met? I think NJ's issues with people's imperfections has more to do with his own than the people he is focusing on. It is called projecting. If you start to accept yourself and your flaws you will be able to do the same for someone else's.

I 'think' I'm ok with tattoos but I'm not sure how I'd react if one of my teenage girls came home with a permanent tattoo. I'd hate to think that she;d regret it by the time she was thirty. However, when an older person gets a tattoo, I think there is usually more thought behind it and I don't have a problem.

My eldest daughter got her tongue pierced without me knowing. (She hates needles so I couldn't figure that one out!)She barely spoke to me for a fortnight obviously trying to avoid me and had me really worried as to what was wrong. Her younger sister eventually spilled the beans and I actually laughed at it when she showed me. Told her I hated it - I'd rather she'd have had her belly button pierced and we all noticed that she spoke a bit funny for a while. She took it out very discreetly about a month after I found out because she hated it herself by then. Had it been a tattoo, it wouldn't have been so easy to reverse!

Hasn't Cindy Crawford had her mole removed lately?

Hi,

No I'm not HIGH, never needed drugs, so much to respond to will have to skip lunch to defend my honor, oy vey.

NJ

Edit "we're fighting to defend this womans honor, which is more then she's ever done" - Groucho Marx

honor????

I think you have that confused with immaturity and arrogance.

LOL :RollieEyes: NJ, I don't think you are not going to reply because it is to many responses to your post to reply to. I think you are not going to respond to because you can tell from with other posters have to say that it makes your arguments and generalizations seem petty. You can't defend your honor because you see the error of your ways. People are so often more than what they seem. I for one can tell when someone is playing nice vs. someone who is genuinely nice. I despise generalizations. I did that when I didn't know any better. When I was a kid, I thought I was the only person that pooped because I didn't see anyone else but myself do it. Yet one day. I went into the bathroom after my aunt and she didn't make sure it went down before she left out and I saw she pooped as well. I was awestruck. I was like wow my family is special we all poop. Now I can see I was blinded by my perceptions, because I now know that everyone has to poop it is one of our bodies natural functions.

As far as TT says. I have to say your statement hit home. I got my tattoo when I was 19 and I thought I was expressing myself and being different then other people. LOL (I got it on the back of my neck. The only time anyone can see it is when I have my hair up. Some of the people I have known for years didn't even know I had one. At the time when I got it I didn't think about what older people with them looked like until I saw this old biker guy and I was like oh my God what have I done. LOL then I thought mine is in an ideal place because the back of your neck doesn't start looking like pork rinds until you are much to old to even care. LOL Also I can easily cover it because of my hair so I am good to go.

Medc that is to funny. I remember being young and arrogant. Now because I know better, I know the Lord always has his ways of taking people down a peg so I try never to look down on someone else because of their views and just try and sit back and observe and wait until they have an epiphany(0r not it takes some people bumping their heads a few times before they realize that it hurts and to start being more careful. When I didn't know any better I thought I know so much, Now that I am maturing I realize I didn't know half of the things I thought I knew and I have to shake my head at my own silly way of thinking before I knew any better. Hell, just going back and reading my first misguided posts I can see how far I have come in such a short period of time. Thanks again to all of my MB friends and those golf clubs. They have been of great help to me and mine.

NJ,


There is nothing honorable in how you define someones beauty. It is quite alright to not like tattoo's. It's fine and dandy to think someone is less attractive because of their scarring. BUT, to come on these boards, and so arrogantly state that someone is less attractive because of their scarring (and I take this very personally) that is cruel. It is ok to have an opinion. But when your opinion has the ability to hurt someone, you should keep it to yourself.


And NJ, medc is right. When medc said "immaturity", remember it has nothing to do with someones actual age. It has to do with their ability to think and rationalize at a higher level. Age has nothing to do with being or acting mature.

Respectfully,
Beam

Wow, I would hope that you wouldn't be coming back to try and defend the indefensible New Jersey...I was truly hoping that you had perhaps learned something, realized your gaff and would be looking to apologize. There would be much honor in that. I could and would respect that...

And sure, it would still be okay for YOU not to find tattoos attractive...I'm sure there are lots of people that do not, and that's fine. What's not okay is to stereotype and say hurtful and disrespectful things to others...

I've lived pretty much my whole life as a "stereotype"...almost a caricature of myself...You see, I'm blonde, green eyed, busty and what many people [certainly not everyone I'm sure] in our society think of as "conventionally beautiful" - symmetrical even! I've been automatically assumed to be "the dumb blonde" for a long, long time...Add to that, that for the last 12.5 years I've lived in a Northern state while continuing to maintain my Southern drawl...So, if my IQ wasn't already presumed to be low based upon my looks, it automatically drops 10 more points to some people once I speak...Personally though, I've found that it's best when people underestimate you...So, if it makes you feel better to put me in a "box", go ahead - here, I'll help you even...I have a *GASP* tattoo...very miniscule, on the inside of my right ankle...3 interlocking hearts with a daisy intertwined, the hearts signify the Holy Trinity - the daisy I just liked...I got it while I was in college - while on Spring Break...Imagine that, I had the money to go to college, go on a vacation AND get a tattoo...Being a typical college kid I also had enough money for beer too!

Interestingly, my 3 degree havin', raised in one of our nation's wealthiest counties, untattooed, attorney husband didn't hold my tiny tattoo against me when he decided, that YES, he DID, in fact, want a long term relationship with me and asked me to marry him...Sorry if that doesn't fit with your stereotype...maybe you should make your box a bit larger, ya think?

I would strongly recommend that you consider taking a cultural anthropology course...I believe that you would enjoy it and reap many benefits from it as well...

Best,

Mrs. W

Hi,

Well thankfully, much like the abolishment of slavery NJ, we are evolving ourselves away from those very BAD human practices where one is judged by what they look like. Maybe its time for you to join in, yes?

While I agree that I would love to live in a society were people are judged by the totality of their inner worth, I don't think hard wired human nature will change without re-education camps or selective breeding. To what extent our learning and culture over rides our inborn preferences I do not know.

Put another way how often do you see a really knockout cleaning lady? How often have you seen beautiful people just walk into an interview and get hired. This is a very basic form of discrimination that I'm not sure we have dealt with.

I challenge you to name one person on this earth who is perfectly and completely symmetrical and/or has perfectly flawless skin from head to toe. You can't because there is no such perfection.

However in many studies people with greater symmetry are judged to be more beautiful, and computer programs exist to analyze the degree of asymmetry. Someone mentioned MAD magazine, Alfred E. Neuman rates very poorly for symmetry when his face is analyzed.

BTW, I'm not proposing symmetry as a single factor for human success, I understand the multiplicity of factors involved. However I feel disavantaged young people disadvantage themselves further by getting large garish tattoo's.

As one upper level manager said to me about some job applicants, "what can they spend alot of money on which will reduce their chances of employment", referring to their tattoos.

NJ

All,

One thing I do understand is the history of body modification. Many mummies have tattoos and even the ICE man, the oldest know corpse, has tattoos.

Other body modifications included deforming of the heads of infants with boards by some American Indians, filing of teeth Central America, drilling holes in the skull, binding feet China, female/male circumcision, elongated lips/ear lobes, etc, often to signify rank or group identity.

Many of you here seem to assume that given the same set of information two equally intelligent persons will arrive at the same conclusions, that is almost a type of conformity and intellectual dishonesty.

Given that the data set I have access to is incomplete I don't pretend to give absolute answers. I have not interviewed or observed every person sporting a tattoo.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "facts are what we have not, what we have are interpretations."

NJ

PS many people here seem to believe that the only generalization which is true is that "all generalizations are untrue, except this one"

get a life and stop the mental masturbation. What is your purpose in spouting this nonsense? Seriously, what are you hoping to accomplish?

See, when I go into a company restroom, the most I will say to the person cleaning the room is a quick "hello." You have upper management speaking to you about tattoos while you try and get your work done. Perhaps you were making them nervous by continually checking out their "symmetry."

Sigh...To quote a poster here called Lemonman, "Some people just don't get it and they don't get that they don't get it"...

FYI NJ...There is a particular brand of make-up that will completely cover tattoos if anyone so desired...It's called Dermablend...there are likely other brands as well...So you should watch out, we "tattooed ones" just might infiltrate your nice, clean world without your even knowing it - some of us may already be doing it even! *shudder*

Mrs. W

OMG, you guys are just way too funny!

Ours is quite stunning as a matter of fact NJ...

Wow, I think I might blow a couple of holes in your stereotypes with this post...

I have a tattoo, and am a SAHM that can afford a cleaning lady...a beautiful one to boot!

Is this rockin' your world or what?

Mrs. W

ETA: NJ, there is NOTHING wrong with being a cleaning lady...It is a good, honest living...

You talk in the restroom?!? Were you taught nothing as a child? Walk in, do your business and leave as fast as humanly possible; no talking, eye contact, sideways glances and especially no hand/foot gestures.

No lie, I just saved your life.

You're welcome.

tattoo neutral

I've seen some that I think are nice and some that I think are tacky. Angelina Jolie is tacky for so many other reasons than her tattoos but her choice of art work sure doesn't help.

Oh dear, looks like all those tattooed young lawyers, doctors, engineers, musicians, artists and arts graduates that my university keeps churning out in its thousands won't get jobs. :RollieEyes:

Oh, wait a minute, most of them do get very good jobs.

Horrors, you probably don't think overweight people should work in prime positions either. Or women. No, they're probably ok because some of them are "symmetrical".

Interesting, NJ, you don't understand what a stereotype is, yet you keep using a stereotypical Jewish expression.

medc, when you're on a roll you are GOOD.

NJ, it's okay to cry "uncle" yanno...

Mrs. W

There is no for or against in my eyes. It is an individuals choice if they want one. I do not 'judge' a person by the fact that have or don't have ink. I generally ask why they got their tattoo and what it means. That gives me good insight into the type of person they are.

Well I have a tattoo and it has no meaning i simply got it just because, it is on my shoulder and most of the time it is not visible. I happen to like it and think it is cute.

My DDs both have tattoos, my oldest has a "tramp stamp" and another one on her hip. My yougest has one on her shoulder and one on the back of her neck. None of them are "trashy" in any way shpe or form and i do not think any of us are "trashy" because we have one.

Kiwi,


Interesting, NJ, you don't understand what a stereotype is, yet you keep using a stereotypical Jewish expression.

So we should ignore ethnic language words in the english language? Would using Yiddish words like smuck, shalmeil, etc be a form of anti-semitism? Worse is not knowing those words.

I would say that not understanding the role of Yiddish in the formation of the modern American sense of humor is a form of gross cultural illiteracy. Most jokes you hear today have Yiddish ancestors.

NJ

and the stroking continues.

Medc,

I'm under the impression that your reading is limited to the bible.

NJ

Actually NJ, it is patently clear if you've been around here at all that MEDC has read more than the Bible, however, from the way that you worded that, is there something wrong with reading the Bible? Is there another stereotype that you wish to propagate here? Another box to that you desire to put people in? Odd, because your first post on this thread was signed "God Bless"...Perhaps I'm not following you here...

Mrs. W

well, you have once again proved ignorant to the facts...perhaps the smell of Tidy Bowl is getting to you.

so, what is the purpose of this thread?

you know NJ, if you keep this up too long...you are bound to go blind. Imagine that...you'd have no ability to disrespectfully judge another's "symmetry."

NJ, what is the purpose of this thread if only an attempt to be offensive?

So far, I think anyone responding to this thread has shown that they are comfortable with their imperfections and are intellectual enough so as not to be offended.

You are entitled to your opinion of tattoos and other bodily imperfections. What is your purpose in sharing that opinion?

So far, this thread is saying more about YOU than what you are trying to say about others.

I also believe people get tattoos b/c they think they are pretty. In my eyes, the meaning is beauty (or art). The tattoo itself may have no meaning, but it 'means' something.

BA109,

I don't think too many people have addressed if there is any truth in what I have said, they seemed too busy being indignant.

I keep pressing the "submit" button how odd is that?

NJ

There you go again NJ. Why must you post the way you do? Does it make you feel superior to spew things so readily available with a click of the mouse on Google?

I can psychobabble right along with the best of them. You ramble on from post to post, trying to provoke. Trying to show your "intelligence," your "worldly knowledge," and your "vernacular."

I have read your posts to others on different threads. Not sure why you are here, why you feel you have the ability to offer any advise to others or why you feel compelled to "educate" us on tattoo's, jokes by Yiddish ancestors, the inner wiring of the human race, ugly cleaning ladies, upper level managements opinions, mummies and icemen, Nietzsche quotes, quotes from comedian Groucho Marx on protecting a woman......the list goes on and insanely on.

Oh, and if you want to quote Nietzsche, you should think about this one....."A good writer possesses not only his own spirit but also the spirit of his friends." Frederick Nietzsche

Or my favorite....
"
Anyone who has declared someone else to be an idiot, a bad apple, is annoyed when it turns out in the end that he isn't." Frederick Nietzsche



Respectfully,
Beam

Ahem, no, you've chosen not to address the people who have shown you that there is no truth to what you said...

While I'm certain there ARE people who are as you have described, your sweeping generalization proclaiming that ALL people with tattoos are ____, ____ and ____ is more than a little ridiculous...

I was truly hoping that you would learn the dangers of stereotyping from what has been said to you on this thread...I'm an optimist and I still hold out hope...

Mrs. W

This thread started in a defamatory fashion and has stayed that way in its entirety. Time for a lock.