It's been a while since I posted. Well it's happened. I have "met" a wonderful woman, and am developing a romantic interest.

A friend of mine was visiting his home town, 8 hours away and ran into an old friend of his. He had dinner with her (she has been divorced some years) and he thought that she and I should meet, possibly on facebook.

A few weeks went by and I finally got the nervous high school boy nerve to message her. She was very warm in her response and we began a dialogue, sharing our life stories. After a week or so we had our first phone conversation. We talked for 3 hours. It's hard to explain how friendliness turned to affection and affection has now progressed into romantic interest. All this has progressed in just a couple of weeks.

It has been about six months since my marriage failed. Some of you know my story of my wifes betrayal and the ensuing drama.

I have been following a path of inner discovery and healing. I have come to a place where my heart is free and I am at peace.

The connection that we have made without physically meeting seems almost too good to be true. She is intelligent, thoughtful, caring, witty, happy, loving and not to mention absolutely beautiful (as far as I can tell from her pics ).

I still cannot be divorced for at least 2 months and will likely take longer. It seems so wonderful to have this communication relationship where we are exchanging the gift of sharing deeply with each other. There is the "protection" of distance until I am unentangled with my wife.

We are considering meeting to confirm the chemistry we feel. We are both prepared to wait till the circumstances in our lives, mostly mine are settled before we look into the possibility of merging our lives, if that's direction it continues to go.

I wanted to share here and see what feedback the good people of this forum had to offer.

Thanks,

pdc - a very happy man

pdc, if I read you correctly, your marriage failed six months ago and your divorce is still two months away. Is that correct?

If so, then I would advise you to be VERY CAUTIOUS.

Number one: You are still married. On the divorce track, perhaps, but legally still a married man. Getting involved with another person while still married is called... adultery. Ya know?

Number two: Beware of "rebound relationships." The woman may be long-divorced, but you are not. There is a great temptation to jump into a new relationship to prove to yourself that "it wasn't your fault," and that you're capable of having relationships. Rebound relationships can be very devastating.

I'm happy that you're feeling at peace and resolved about your marriage. But my advice to you would be to slow things down for a while -- at least until your divorce is final.

pdc, I remember you. I have been wondering about you and how you were doing. I hope that you have had some kind of counseling after the trauma of the events surrounding your wife's situation.

I agree with Fred that you need to be cautious and be aware that this may be mostly a rebound sort of thing.

You will be happier in the long run if you wait until the divorce is final before you go any further in this or any other new relationship. If I recall correctly, you stbxw is in jail and there's no possibility of reconciliation. Even so, take your time.

Hi pdc,

I have been where you are.

About 12 months into my separation I met someone wonderful. My D was finalized about 5 months after we met. I will say that all the "drama" in my life put great strain on it. It eventually ended, do in part of what I went through and was going through and in part of her issues. Do I wish I hadn't met her? Absolutely not!

I have seen and heard many stories that the first ones never work out. The crux of the matter is that someone has to be the first.
I have been on both sides of that. I have never heard of an exception. That is just food for thought.


Also, distance. When you do want to move the relationship forward, distance is a BIG deal. I will not date someone more that 20 to 30 min from where I live. Now if you just want to have an occasional lady friend then maybe that is okay. The way you posted that does not seem to be the case. That you had a true romantic connection with this person. If this is the case you both may find the distance frustrating. That is just my opinion.

pdc, I also have wondered how you were doing, as your thread was one I kept up with. You and I are in similiar boats right now. I could have easily written your post with just a few minor changes.

I'm 20 months into a separation myself, and 'met' someone online two months ago. Talk about clicking, very much alike. That connection also seemed 'too good to be true'. Like you, I considered the distance as a form of 'protection'. Give it time, don't rush anything, and you will probably find yourself in the same place I am at now. With a very good friend, but only a friend. Believe me when I say I ran thru the gauntlets of emotions as well. It's nice after so many years to find someone who values me as I am, it is a huge moral boost, and all around just a good thing in that regard. You can learn a lot thru this relationship, but like the others, I definitely advise to slow down, and give it a LOT of time.

Rebounds are a beeacchhhh, in discussing our past lives, I've come to realize one thing. Both my marriages? Were rebounds. Sad to say they were both from the same man. That was a huge wake up call for me the day I realized that. I have finally been able to let that ghost lay to rest, and for that, I'm extremely thankful for. Got to love that good old 20/20 hindsight.

There is a saying I heard some time back.

People come into your lives for a Reason, a Season or a Lifetime. You never know which until they are gone.

Thanks so much for your time and thoughtful replies. They are much as I expected. I am going to take this slowly in terms of moving forward with anything like cohabitation. I understand the dynamic of the rebound. It doesn't feel to me in my heart that that is the case. I also know I could have a blind spot there.

I also am going to give this beautiful thing we have a chance. A friend of mine often says, "there is no order of difficulty in the matter of miracles".

The natural boundaries of distance and responsibilities with our children will protect us from doing anything in the near future. I will not walk away from this lovely woman without following where our paths may lead. It seems too beautiful and easy, but why wouldn't the divine provide beauty for those who seek it?

My heart is open, as is hers. Some would say we are foolish to pursue each other under the circumstances. I say we would be fools to pass up the possibility for finding a miracle a love.

Above are the musings of a heart that has become full of the joy of discovery and possibility.

Slow down or speed up...

I don't believe that is possible. Relationships move at a pace. Factors outside of your heart may dictate their pace. Distance being one of those. I just believe hearts want to move into equilibrium. This is what dictates "pace". Just my opinion.

Regardless how great things seem right now, it is always, always, ALWAYS unwise to buy the first car you test drive.

I don't agree. Not saying it is, but would you pass up perfection just based on that principle?

A human is an amazing individualistic being. To discard one based on a "rule" seems hastier than "buying" the first.

That resonates with me kayaker.

You don't have to pass over the first car you test drive either, but you have no baseline for comparison until you test drive others. I've been there. What I thought was perfection after my divorce (A year after my divorce was final, mind you) turned out to be far from it.

The odds of you stumbling across a woman who is perfect for you before your divorce is even final are incredibly against you. If you pursue this, you will likely be doing both of you a disservice.

Another interesting thing I discovered: The feelings and thoughts you are having right now that are giving you the irrational feeling that she may be "the one" are VERY similar to the thoughts and feelings that a WS has who believes they are "in love" with their AP.

Just food for thought. Even if she WERE the one, the fact that you are fresh out of a bad marriage will almost certainly destroy your relationship with her at some point. You are better off remaining friends with her for now, and seeing if anything develops after some time has passed. You have issues you don't even know about yet...and can't know about until you go through at least one "rebound"...maybe more. This rule is nearly universal.

Ummm, did you totally miss that part where this is still considered ADULTERY? Are you all going to gloss over that? It doesn't matter if others do it, it is WRONG to date while you are still legally married. What type of person dates someone who is still married? Think about that.

Sorry, but discussing "dating" while still married on a marriage builders web site is just a little nutty.

Hang on Scotland, did you actually read his thread? If I understand correctly, this is someone he is chatting to. Where is the adultery?

About a year ago a man put an arm around me when I was walking the dog and I almost died because it had been so long since I was shown any affection. Is that adultery too?

pdc, how are you doing? How are your kids? Especially the youngest boy? I've gone back thru and skimmed over a lot of your original thread, as well as this one. You have been thru the ringer, no one who is familiar with your story can deny or argue with that.

It's because of the circumstances of your marriage and how it ended that I am going to say, I hope you put the brakes on any feelings of romance or love with this relationship, at the very minimum, until after your divorce is final. I totally understand friendship with this woman, just stay clean of any romantic or love feelings that can grow.

Have you told this woman the full story of the breakdown and end of your marriage?

What you have been thru is going to take longer than a few months to heal from. Your situation is highly unusual and very devastating. It might feel like you are or have healed, but I can not imagine under the circumstances that full healing has happened this quickly. Especially if what you said in your original thread about your feelings towards your wife, are true, and I believe they were. You were married many a year after all.

pdc, do you ever have flashbacks of catching your wife? I don't like to bring that up, but I know there is an extra dose of devastation when you physically see the proof versus finding out about it. I caught my XH and my best friend in the act, and still have flashbacks at times and that has been over 30 years ago. I don't think about it often at all, more recently as I've been trying to understand more about why my two marriages failed, and both involved affairs (theirs). At six months out, I was still when I thought of it.


You know the old saying about 'too good to be true' usually is, I'm sure. Are you still seeking counseling pdc? What does your counselor say about all this?

Honestly, I'm also concerned on the effects this will have on your son as well, finding someone so soon after that situation, and especially with your attempt at making your marriage work. That in itself has to be confusing to him. I know it would be to me. Please think about how this will affect him also when and if you and this woman move forward.

Do you or your children go to visit your wife at all?




Lied_to, I do agree with both Fred and Scotland, pdc is in what is considered an Emotional Affair. No, it is technically not adultery at this point. But it is still an EA while married, which goes against MB principles. I don't know if you have read his full original post, it is a very unusual situation. Scotland makes some good points here.

I'll comment more when I have time. I am definitely in an emotional affair. I don't have a problem with it under the conditions.

You wrote the following on March 24,2011.
Just shy of 15 weeks ago.


You are in a rebound relationship.

How do you "walk away" from a 26 year relationship?
You find a replacement EN-filler right away, and "fall in love".

I am not making a proclaimation of moral rightness or wrongness.
I am simply stating a fact.
You ARE in a rebound relationship.
Don't bother to argue otherwise.
No matter what your "feelings" are telling you.

This is not a smart move on your part.
This rebound relationship you are using to escape from your grief, is not a step in your personal healing.
A brand new relationship that seems so perfect is a mask over your grief.

Is this new woman rebound relationship something that will be helpful for any of your 5 children?



Knowing Dad has "walked away" so quickly with a new woman will NOT help YOUR children heal their terrible grief.

Think about that.

LINK to quote

PS
I wish you nothing but good things in your life.
Has your WW been tried or sentenced for her crime?

Apologies all round, I just read pdc's original thread and understand why you wrote what you wrote. I am in tears over his tragic story.

I have become very sensitive on the subject of what constitutes ok and not ok behaviour whilst separated as my STBX has now appealed to the supreme court to drag out our divorce which has already been going on for three years. I have long since let go emotionally and it is driving me crazy that he has this control over me now after his affairs for 18 of the 30 years we were married.

I can't get behind married people "dating." It IS still adultery. And it has NOTHING to do with the other spouse. It is about YOU. It is about how adultery changes the person whom acts on it. Do I know people who are dating others after their spouse left them? Sure. Do I agree with it? HECK NO.

It is also a slippery slope when we start to say that certain adultery is okay. True, in the "real" world, and for most of us BEFORE we found MB, it is different. This ISN'T that world though. We KNOW different here. The stats are the way that they are.

I have made mistakes in my life as well, my WH and I lived together before we were married. The chances of a marriage like that surviving are slime. Had I to do it over again, I would have changed what I did. I will NOT date while I am still married. I won't condone it on this site either.

Sorry, I am passionate about what I believe in.

I understand that it goes against some peoples' religious beliefs, but how does living together before marriage increase the chances of divorce? I mean really...is there even ONE practical reason not to?

Also, what is living together? Is it only official when you fill out your change of address card at the post office? What if you only spend one night a week together? 2? 3?

The "living together is bad" statement is a myth. If not doing so agrees with your personal beliefs, fine...but to issue a blanket statement like "the chances of a marriage like that surviving are slim" is nonsense...as if your address prior to the wedding has anything to do with the problems in your marriage now.

Ummm, do you have any statistics to back up your statement?

I'd suggest that you read the following.

Living together before marriage, Part 1

Living together before marriage, Part 2

What is it like to be married after living together, Part 1

What is it like to be married after living together, Part 2

What is it like to be married after living together, Part 3

I personally don't know a single married couple who didn't live together prior to being married. Again, what constitutes living together? If you routinely stay at the other person's place until midnight but go home to sleep, I guess you're ok.

Its not a "myth" at all. Those marriages have an 80% higher rate of divorce so it has nothing to do with "personal beliefs" but has everything to do with bad habits developed while shacking up.

Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse?

Additionally, most domestic violence occurs in shack up situations or marriages that started that way:

For the record, I am not planning on cohabitating with this women or any woman until I am divorced which may be as soon as 2 or 3 months from now.

I have done alot of self examination on the rebound thing. I still feel strongly that due to the lengthy deterioration of my marriage, and the spiritual awakening that I have experienced that my heart is free to love. I was feeling free and whole and happy before this thing began.

I was not looking for this and frankly would not have allowed it were it with a local person. This began through a friend's introduction with the only intention of having a possible friendship. From that, an amazing connection of intellect, spirit and heart began.

I will not walk away from this person without seeing where it may lead. I did not go into this a desparate, lovesick puppy.

All conventional wisdom would say this is a rebound. I have utmost respect for you Pepperband and you too MelodyLane (ya Beatles freaks). I cannot say that there are absolutely no threads of a rebound woven into this, but by and large she and I are two healthy people having a serious look at each other.

-pdc

Just be careful, my friend!!!

Premarital sex, if you ask me. I'm not sure if Dr. Harley defines it that way or not.


Wow. Sounds like a great opportunity to define a new, better normal for the next generation.

Thank you Mel, I will. Worst case and this turns out a heartbreak, after what I've been through and where I am spiritually, I can handle it. My completeness comes from within, not from a relationship.

....and Pep, my kids are all for this.

DITTO

Thank you Pep.

You people on this site helped me cope and find my way through the hardest thing I have ever experienced, in a big way.

Like I stated in the title of this thread, I am amazed that something so beautiful could come into my life so soon. I am clearly in an emotional affair, but I am also clearly separated from my stbxw in my heart.

I respect those who find the establishment of a new relaionship while still legally married wrong. I thought I had barriers in place for this not to happen yet.

My situation is a bit different than most. I don't say that to justify. I am where I am now, and my heart is full. The woman I am involved with used the term regarding someone else, "an adventure of the heart" and that is what this is. A wonderful adventure.

-pdc

pdc, yes, your situation is a bit different. But, you know what? It's not different enough.

It didn't bother me very much until I saw where you said that you are clearly separated from your stbxw in your "heart." That's EXACTLY what my WXH thought during our divorce.

As far as he was concerned we were done so he felt no compunction about introducing the OW to some of our children. They were horrified, and it damaged his relationship with them even further.

For the sake of your children, and in respect of THEM and what they've been through, you need to cool it with your emotional affair until after your divorce is final.

Put your attention on them. I hope some/all of them are in counseling. I hope YOU are in counseling.

Thank you Kirby,

Every one of my children including my 14 year old son knows I have a "friend", and each has enthusiastically encouraged me in this. Just last night my son with a mature beyond his years smile said, Dad I want you to be happy. This was in regards to my telling him I was going to have a video chat with my friend. I asked him how he felt about it.

I and they have appropriate support. Thank you so much for your concern.

-pdc

Well, I think that tells us all how easy it is to fall into this affair trap doesn't it?

Ahhh pdc, I wish you had slowed this down from the start. Please be careful.

To be totally honest, as I read thru these posts of yours, there was one thing that kept coming to mind. One question I found myself asking, each time I read thru these.

"What drugs is he on? I want some".

Then it hit me, are you on anti depressants? Those could well give you the feeling that you have your WW out of your heart when she in fact, is not. And the feeling that all is golden in this relationship. Just an idea. I worry about you, what can I say.

NSZ,

Thank you also for your concern. You have been a kind voice on this board.

The only drug I am on is discovering "presence", that is to say finding the place inside myself that is aware of "now". This involves an awareness of life as it occurs, paying attention to what is truly before you at this moment. In doing this escaping the incessant internal commentary that goes on inside our heads, see and hearing what is before us as it truly is, not the "stories" we tell ourselves about it. This is a dicovery of who I really am, and who others are at the core.

There is so much more to say on that subject, but not here. Suffice it to say, I have found peace, and am able to face life as it occurs, and to see it for what it is, to find the beauty in what comes.

Just to temper the above statement, it is a process and one that I am growing in.

I don't think this is the same mindset that allows one to enter into an affair although I can see how from the outside it could look like that. (were my marriage not conclusively over, my barriers would have allowed none of this)

All in all, I am quite happy, and not because I have found a love. That just adds to what was and is already there.

-pdc

I will say one more thing on the subject. Keep in mind that relatinships that begin as affairs have a slim chance of survival.

I see someone who is admitting that they are wayward and then saying they are different. Hmmmm, I think I have heard that somewhere before.

Take care and take care of those children. I hope they don't get confused about marriage and affairs.

Really? Truly? Or is this wishful thinking?

[edit]

Your family has been through a major trauma.

Healing takes time, and you have not had enough time to heal.

My good friend tried to create an account and post here. He had some difficulty and asked that I publish his post for him.

Here it is:

"Well this post serves as my first to the MB site, and it is posted from a very unique perspective regarding PDC.

I first met the now incarcerated wife before her affair with the boy. Out of the blue I called PDC one evening. Since that time we have walked through fire together, providing mutual support and creating what I believe will be a friendship that will last a lifetime.

In the last six months this man has become more of himself, come back to himself, allowed himself to emerge from a cave into the day. His visage has changed from burdened to relief. I have been amazed by his resilience.

While I do not have a "before" reference point with the children, I do have a "during" reference, and see them frequently. The youngest is now engaging me in conversation and does not have the dark cloud over his head. He, like the other children are grieving the loss of their mother, but they all seem relieved. PDC invests time with them, and is a loving parent.

As to his new friend, I found myself saying some of the same things to him that have been posted here. I care for this man as a brother. It seems soon. The ego can use feelings to mask grief. Wait for the divorce. But when riding a big wave in to shore, once it curls you got to go with it. He is happy. I enjoy seeing him happy. I support him in the decision to continue to "chat" with her.

Our friendship continues to strengthen as we work on some mutual projects. His new friend has not created distance in our communication. We talk just about every day and from what I can tell this new relationship seems healthy. Is she the "one?" Who knows. That he brought this change in his life to this forum speaks well of his character. Got your back good buddy."

I haven't read through the entire thread, just the beginning but it seems you're getting the cart before the horse...get divorced and THEN date.

I only say this because I've basically been where you are, and I'm hoping I can make a small dent in your myopia:

A 50 year old man should know better. You are in a rebound. What do you not understand about that? It doesn't matter what you think, how you feel, or what your friends say. It is what it is, and nothing is going to change that.

I honestly wish you the best, but I know where you are headed. This relationship will crash and burn. You are headed for a couple years' worth of ups and downs AFTER your divorce AT LEAST, and it's a ride you haven't even started yet. In 2 years you'll hardly remember this woman, and if you learn anything from the experience you will consider her a rebound.

I know you don't want to believe it. What you have is "special". It transcends labels. You were meant to be with her all along. Blah blah blah. Been there, done that. So have the vast majority of all people who re-enter the dating world after getting out of a bad marriage.

Time to stop farting rainbows and realize that when you've eaten crap for so long, a Saltine cracker seems delicious...is that what you're going to settle for, or do you think maybe there's something a little better on the menu if you'd TURN THE PAGE AND CHECK IT OUT?

Krazy71,

You seem to be so certain. I don't deny that some rebound threads must be woven through this.

Just because many or even most take the given path called rebound does not mean all are cetain to as you seem to expouse.

I don't mean to insult you but you speak as though you are a prophet and that valid exceptions cannot occur because you have been there and you know. Do you think there has never been a "rebound" that has gone on to flourish into a beautiful future? Do you forget I am armed with Marriage Builders tools to employ?

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I and my friend are both exceptional people with our eyes wide open (yes they're also a bit blinded by love). We may or may not be the life partners that we are looking for, but we can surely find out.

There will no doubt be "rebound" characteristics employed especially by me, there already has been. I see where that will cause hurdles to overcome, but it doesn't make the hurdles insurmountable.

We also have the luxury/curse of time. Our distance relationship will by necessity due to our individual responsibilities continue for a good while. We have both commented to each other how this internet/phone relationship in it's own way is beneficially unique as it is based on communication and the physical is not there to muddy the waters.

Sometimes the best and most well suited entree happens to be on page 1. She is by no means a saltine cracker, she is the caviar.

Time will tell. I will continue on this "adventure of the heart".

Thank you K1 for taking your time and showing your care. This whole thread has been helpful for me. It has caused me to look more deeply into the wounds I am bringing to the table.

Trying to keep my eyes wide open.

-pdc

I'm not one to state so emphatically that there are never exceptions. A person can learn to read the handwriting on the wall and statistics do tell a story and it's good to learn from the vast majority and their experiences. However, just once in a while there ARE exceptions and I don't see how one can speak so surely for themselves of something they know little about? It helps to stick to addressing explicit things rather that speaking in a generalized summation. JMHO

PDC, I sincerely wish you the best, but let me leave you with one last display of psychic ability: I predict the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow.

Ahhh K1 you mystic, how do you know where I perceive the sun from is on the surface of the planet. Perhaps I envision it as a constantly burning star.

Thanks again for your concern. I have appreciated all the comments here from all. It has caused me to further examine myself.

-pdc

While most here have focused on the issues of this being a rebound, and of pdc not yet being divorced (both valid concerns), I see another big .

pdc has mentioned that he and this woman have never actually met, so the whole discussion of "relationship" and "love" and cohabitation is somewhat silly at this point. This is nothing more than an internet romance, and it is very VERY easy to let your mind fool you when dealing with only words. Words can be extremely powerful (witness the romance paperbacks), but also very misleading. Your mind tends to fill in all the gaps in the most positive light, and then when you meet the other person and they are not as you expected, it is a big letdown.

Even after meeting this lady, your relationship would be long distance and thus rather "phony", since you'd be seeing her during mini vacations, not the realities of kids, laundry, chores, etc. But regardless, you should meet this person before continuing down the path much longer.

AGG

I'd be really curious about an update to this one.

I totally understand where you're coming from. Yes we should be guided by the "rules" and you have to be cautious but hey, you deserve to be happy. Everybody does. I'll say take care of the relationship and see if it's gonna wait till divorce finally go through. Love can wait if it's the real one. Cheers!

Marriage Builders shows how love is created (love bank) and keeps vibrant (certain conditions of running the relationship) and there is no the real one. People pick each other cause they find someone who meets their emotional needs and off it goes. YK?

I have read this entire post and feel that you all are denying what MB binds to...that virtually you can fall in love and stay in love forever with any person who meets your EN. So that being said, it shouldn't matter if this is a rebound relationship or one that occurs 5 years post-divorce. Also, how many relationships or how much time needs to pass before a relationship is no longer considered "rebound"? Don't you think every person reaches this point at varying time frames? So are you all saying that you need to have x amount of "break-ups" post divorce before you can consider a life long relationship to be produced?

Looks who's back. It's sad to see that you're still as foggy as ever. And still twisting the Marriage Builders concepts to suit your own agenda and try to justify the actions YOU have chosen.
See the part of your quote that I've bolded? You've neglected to mention the rest of what Dr. H says in his basic concepts (emphasis mine to show you where you dropped the ball):

Of course, it takes much more than just the feeling of love to build a successful marriage. It takes your willingness and ability to care for and protect each other. But that feeling of incredible attraction is the best litmus test of your success in giving each other the care and protection that you need. If you are both in love, your Takers are convinced that the relationship is a good deal for both of you, and will not interfere with what's going on. Your Givers have free reign to provide each other the best of what you both have to offer.

When you are in love, your emotions help you meet each other's emotional needs. They provide instincts that you may not have even known you have -- instincts to be affectionate, sexual, conversational, recreational, honest and admiring. These all seem to come naturally when you are in love.
But when you fall out of love, everything that will help your marriage seems unnatural. Your instincts turn against marital recovery, and toward divorce. That's why I've created these Basic Concepts -- to help you do what it takes to restore your love for each other when you are not in love, when you don't feel like doing any of them. And then once your love is restored, these concepts will help you stay in love for the rest of your lives. This is simple ignorance of MB principles. And willful ignorance, to boot, because MB principles don't support your selfish desires. Nowhere does it say that you are to live your life entirely for someone else. You work with each other, as a couple. You know, as in MARRIED TO EACH OTHER? It's not about sacrifice. Unless, of course, you are unwilling to sacrifice your independent behavior.

If you look at what you've said, you're already acknowledging that you'll be moving on from your current OM when he (inevitably) fails to meet all of your needs. What a sad and shallow life.

What is that odd sound??

ROFL! I wondered where you were!

Anyone can fill up your EN, and anyone can also withdraw at the same time.

Withdrawing my love from you!

1) Lying/dishonesty/omission
2) independent behavior
3) adultery
4) Disrespectful judgements - how long until the OM thinks the food you cook stinks, makes fun of your stretch marks, or thinks you discipline your girls all wrong?

Filler UP you great an amazing man who is sleeping with me while I am still married and just ended this marriage based on my azz sleeping with several men, and I dumped my great husband and girls because I believe you amazing OM are the perfect man for me!!! I see a lifetime of happiness in your future Strugglin ...

A man who sleeps with a still married woman will cheat again. Last I heard you are still married!!!

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As if you have any idea what is occurring in my life right now! XOXO

My. Such an intellectually-based method of discourse. All caps and multiple exclamation points.

Is there anything further you care to add to the discussion of Marriage Builders concepts?

I just love how you are so quick to judge and ASSUME you know what has occurred with me in the last six months maritalbliss. You have no idea, but yet you attack me and attack me when I honestly was looking to further this discussion and get feedback to my questions. *edit*

We have seen this at least 1000x by other WW. They want justification for abandoning their husbands and children for the other man. All the data (facts!!) show (this site, and all other Adultery sites) a wayward cannot make a happy life with their adultery partner or any partner while still married because of the selfishness, deceit, lies, and betrayal of the wayward.

Strugglin' it is your happiness. Who are we to tell you if you are happy or not. What we know from seeing thousands upon thousands of the same, identical, not unique situation of your life is your happiness can not be found until you deal with your adultery.

Maybe you are 1 out of 5000 women who committed adultery and is perfectly happy. It is possible. The mere fact you are posting on PDC's thread to justify happiness while sleeping with a man who is not your husband strongly (factual again) suggests you are not happy, and are needing reassurance.

Granted you may be the 1 out of 5000 adulterous women who are very happy, and are going full speed ahead into your eternal bliss, but from your writing we can all see you are not the 1/5000.

The key here is you have not resolved your adultery with your husband. Nope you made contact again, and are now heading for divorce. This divorce is all yours and there is no one to blame but yourself.

Granted your husband may have not done his part to meet your EN's before your adultery. You have that right to be mad. His actions proved to you, this board, and continue to prove he is faithful to you. He wanted to make your marriage work, and he wanted to love you.

Yep - your husband, the father of your children, the man devoted to you, still faithful, still committed willing to make your marriage recover.

Take the advice here to make your relationship with your OM happy. We know (likely you know also) trading your husband for another husband never works out in the end. Your husband, OM, and any other OM are not responsible for you.

The path you are setting out for will result with continued changes in men, until finally you either give up and repent or you settle for man who will be awful to you.

Best of luck with your life - sure does sound happy!!!

Got a pretty good idea, actually

We know.

I don't need to know the specifics of what's occurred in your life in the last six months. You're still wayward. Anything other than that is immaterial to the discussion at hand. You attempted to twist MB concepts to support your wayward state and I corrected you. If you consider that judging that's fine with me.

The situation is what it is. The sun came up this morning. Grass is green. You are still wayward. Facts are facts.

Your questions, IMO, were silly and undeserving of comment, so I didn't.

I caught your comment before the mod edited it. That doesn't concern me, either. I always find it interesting when an unrepentent adulterer starts flinging around thinly-disguised threats of eventual doom for whomever doesn't agree with them. I have seen that come with the territory. Maybe it makes you feel better?

I find it amusing, actually, that she would throw out that threat when it is she that is living in adultery. Really, strugglin, you believe in a being that is going to judge you in the end, yet you aren't trembling?

A mother who has willfully destroyed her childrens' world will have a LOT to answer for. Enough said.

Kinda sad to see you back, strugglin, and to see that nothing has changed in your way of thinking. So why are you here? To get help with your relationship with OM?

"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma � which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary." ~ Steve Jobs

And just for the record, I am not with the OM.

New-Age-Speak by a guy who made money on electronic gadgets. I expect that might be fine if you're building a computer. Other than that? Irrelevant.

Steve Jobs ... the man, who at the end of his life, regretted that he gave his life to everything EXCEPT his marriage and children.

Oh, what happened? Was there a trust issue?

No surprise there. We all knew that was coming.

So why are you back?

So I expect you will not actually follow this. Because to follow this means you are living someone else's life. After all, what you quote is dogma from Steve Jobs.

So one cannot follow this without contradicting it.

I have a quote for you, from someone I find very good to follow:

-- God speaking to Moses, Exodus 20:14

I don't care who quoted the above, that wasn't the point. Amazing how things happen in ones life that lead them to where they need to be. Nothing happens by chance or accident or coincidence and I truly believe that. "Have you ever felt completely called to do something? Against all perceived reason or logic? 'Common Sense' is screaming in your ears, and yet ... you calmly brush her away ... unable to create a convincing argument as to why it must be done. You just know ... and trust that it will reveal itself in its own time." Its already revealing itself. And feel free to go on to tell me how unhappy the rest of my poor life will be.

Of course you don't.

It's equally amazing how some people can make pretty stupid choices, then blame it on fate.


Hogwash. There's no "common sense" in taking a stupid, destructive choice, and running with it.

No need to. It will bite you in the *** when it "reveals itself in its own time."

Perhaps nothing happens by chance. That's not the issue. The issue is the decisions made when presented with those circumstances.

You can't know if the route you chose is the happiest if you never choose the other route. So while you think you are choosing happiness, you may have chosen sadness that is not yet fully realized.

I simply choose to believe that this life is not all about my happiness. Happiness is such a fleeting thing. It's about what happens. Instead, I try, with varying degrees of success to find contentment and joy in the circumstance.

You can't take that away from me.

Happiness is fleeting. It can be taken away in a moment. But the ability to find contentment in your circumstance and joy in your life, regardless what is happening cannot be taken from you by the events of life.

I think one of the most selfish phrases ever put to pen is, "the pursuit of happiness." But it's ingrained in American culture. We have this notion that we have the right to happiness.

I find it sad that we've taken that to the extreme that we can pursue happiness without regard of how our actions impact another. Each generation ends up more selfish and entitlement minded than the previous.

Just as the Roman empire fell from the inside out due to their particular pursuit of happiness, if we don't make a change, we will do the same.

This website is a testament to how the pursuit of happiness can leave a wake of destruction.

Enough preaching. I pray you'll find peace, contentment and a genuine ability to treat others with higher regard than you treat yourself.

That's far more worthy than the temporary thing known as happiness.

Enlightened Ex, that was the best post I have read on here in days. I truly and sincerely appreciate your wisdom. From the mistake that I made in my marriage and the horrific process of divorce, I have learned so much about myself and about life and the people who have been on this ride with me. From all bad situations come some good. I do feel like I have grown from what has occurred over the past year. Maybe I will never find "happiness". Time will tell that. But yes I am content and still have tons of things that bring me joy every single day. If thats the best that comes out of this, I still feel rather blessed.

Oh goodie. She's destroyed her marriage and her childrens home, but at least she feels content and blessed. Yippee.

Is it time for the group hug now?

I think it is time for a group hug because I promise you, there are so many worse things in life than a divorce and no matter what I still feel blessed.

I'm suggesting that you don't even search for happiness. It's fleeting, it's temporary. Find contentment and you'll probably gain happiness as a benefit.

If you treat others well. I.E. you don't betray them, you don't think they are inferior, then you'll find you are content more of the time.

When you let go of the notion things have to go your way, be it traffic, how your spouse acts, or whatever, I think happiness finds you.

But if you lie, cheat, steal, betray and do "whatever it takes" without regard to others, any happiness you might "steal" using this method is easily lost.

Call it karma, or God balancing the scales, I do believe that happiness gained at the expense of others, such as the happiness obtained in an affair obtained at the expense of your spouse when you break your vows to him, is temporary at best, and non-existent in most circumstances.

Any happiness you might find is immediately threatened by the questions of how someone might steal it away from you as you've stolen happiness from another.

That's what folks are trying to tell you. Any happiness obtained through illegitimate means is temporary at best.

No one is arguing that you were unhappy in your marriage. In fact, I think we all get it. I was unhappy in my marriage to my WXW. Did her affair provide her happiness? Dunno? It certainly distracted her from the unhappiness.

Of course, it did the opposite to me, I went from moderate unhappiness to contemplating suicide. So while I would not argue against the notion we were unhappy, I simply disagree that the ONLY path to happiness was for her to have an affair.

Yet the wisdom of the world tells us just that, if you are not happy, then just bail out.

What if, that thing you described, that thing that made zero sense, appeared to be illogical was present in the situation. What is the conventional, "logical" choice? It's to give up, or to seek your happiness through an affair.

I'm glad you described the circumstance the way you did, because that describes what it's like to actually FOLLOW the MB plan. It's so illogical when you are in the middle of an unhappy stretch.

I'm sorry you, or you and your XH missed out on that, instead choosing the conventional wisdom, rather than what you described.

I sit here and wonder if you missed out on what you described in such glowing terms?

There are many here who would say you probably have.

Who is warming those knickers at night? Your husband or OM#2?

What would happen Strugglin' if you let OM#2 go and do NC (real/honest/truthful NC) with all your OM for 30-60 days?

Based on 40 years of work, facts well documented, and hundreds of thousands of posts on this forum for the past fourteen years -- I am 100% certain feelings for your husband will likely return, and the choices you made will likely sink you into one HE!! of a depression!!!

What I'm trying to say is you were called to do something, the MB plan. It went against all your perceived reason and logic. The collective common sense of the board was screaming out at you.

But instead of choosing this, you went with the Common Sense of the world that says to obtain your personal happiness regardless the costs to others.

Frankly, none of us know how happy or unhappy you will be. Not even you will know that.

But we do know that you didn't make a brave choice. You didn't go against the conventional wisdom. No, you took the wisdom of the world and made the choice most make, ignoring that voice that went against your perceived reason and logic.

So while you describe a brave choice, you didn't make it, did you?

Didn't he also write extensively about his failures and all his regrets? His regrets about denying his child for many years, failed relationships, and birth parents to name a few.

How are your girls blessed? How are you blessed? I am happy you are familiar with MB. It will help with my next post.

How long do you think the love of your girls will last? Since you understand how emotional needs and lovebusters work, then how long will their love last for you?

As a devoted mother I practice emotional needs with my children.

1) O&H
2) Affection
3) Conversation
4) Discipline
5) recreational fun
6) Admiration
7) financial support
8) domestic support
9) family committment
10) Teaching them how to groom themselves

Society tells us our children will love us forever because well, "We are their parent?" Really how can this be 100% true?

If I spend the next 20 years of my children's lives with independent behavior, dishonesty towards them, disrespect, and anger then will these children really love me? Will I foster love in them for the next 20 years?

The reseach and facts suggest they will not only stop loving me, they will likely grow to hate me. Who would love that in anybody?

When you are an ADULTERER - your model follows the 5 lovebusters. Children become confused because they retain residual love because the Wayward parent is meeting some of the needs, yet using Lovebusters against their children. As time progresses the child begins to feel love/hate for their wayward parent because they know lovebusters are wrong. They were taught that by their other parent.

Since children do not have maturity, the will act out in a temper tantrum as their wayward parent during adolescence.

Hence the repeated patterns of the Adulterous parent are passed down to the children, and the cycle begins.

And what of your victims ... You're still so focused on yourself.
Yes, I know that there are things worse than divorce. Such as an affair. Or destroying your childrens' home.

You've got blood on your hands, but at least you feel blessed. Lovely.

Struggling, what is your question? I don't understand it. Can you simplify it for me and reword it so we can try to answer it?

Out of curiosity, why choose to come back NOW and post on THIS particular thread since you were so adamant before that you were NOT coming back to MB? Who are you trying to impress with your "happiness"?

You threw your marriage away and you may not see it now, but you have gravely harmed your children. I personally have no respect whatsoever for a mother who would do this to her family. Your D-day was recent and you're already "hooking up" AGAIN? Wow? Does your new boy know your history?

Those poor children. I hope your BH has the strength to do what is necessary to protect them, because you certainly don't.

I would say you're mostly correct. Most things happen by CHOICE.

Someone pass me my ipad. I feel the sudden need to blog warm fuzzy quotations.

PDC - Sorry about the threadjack. Maybe these posts can get moved to their own thread.

PDC how are your kids doing? You said recently your oldest daughter has been helping out and giving support.

Stop in and give us an update. **edit** Any news?

{{{PDC & Your Five kiddos}}}

My apologies as well. struggling, you need to go back to your own thread or start a new one if you care to continue waxing euphoric over your newly discovered belly button.

Perfect, will do!!

And if you look back, I am not the one that jacked this thread. I posted legitimately and the rest of you were so excited to see me back, ya'll took over the thread. At least I gave you all a reason to get your feathers ruffled and something to do this morning.

In an attempt to get this thread back on track, this is the information I found:

**edit**

God Bless you PDC - so sorry for this news. Many prayers for you and your family. {{{PDC}}}

Exactly.

Struggling sounds just like my STBX WH who doesn't seem very concerned about how his actions affect our children.

Why? Because it's all about me me me and justify justify justify with fogbabble.

*sigh*

I'd like to respectfully ask you folks to take the strugglingaz discussion to a separate thread.

Hi, pdc. How are the kids? Any updates you want to share?

Both myself and the kids are doing very well. I'm waiting for my divorce to be finalized before sharing. If things stay on track that should be very soon.

You are booting us off your thread???

Just kidding, you SHOULD kick us offa here, we have it coming!

Hope you have some good news in the near future. I think about you and was hoping you were ok. Thanks for checking in.

PDC, Good luck with it (divorce), keep us posted.

Hey pdc,

Just read this thread and your original. Sorry your wife went nuts. A 14-year-old OM is beyond ridiculous.

I'd say try to keep those feelings for the new lady in check (at least for a while). There are lots of women out there, and it's probably not wise to fall for the first one you meet. Take your time. Take it slow. There's no rush.

And good luck with the divorce and the kids.

Well, I found out today the the judge signed my divorce decree yesterday. Ugly chapter closed.

I am very excited for the brilliant opportunities the future holds. I am able to keep my home and the kids and I have a happy, mostly stress free home.

I have love in my life. 2012 is poised to be a wonderful year. Things are looking up .

Howdy, pdc!! Congratulations on the divorce. Life can only go north for you.

AHA! Your caught Mel, you just said the north was better!

Grats pdc

Many blessings to you

Oh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh DUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKk

shaddup CP!!

Ummm.....you did say that Mel

whatevah!!

Took you long enough!

shaddup!!

*snicker*