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IHelp a tired wife..

Welcome to MB.

This is a wonderful program to have a wonderful marriage.

Have you read this? A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

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I would like to do the checklists and have the conversations in the back of the book, but I have absolutely no idea where to start.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, TW. May I make a suggestion on where to start?

THROW AWAY THE 'TO DO' LISTS. BOTH OF YOU. You need to have a 'list-free' weekend, with nothing that your H 'has' to get done. I fear these to-do lists have successfully distracted your husband (and you) from your main priority: your marriage. I think your H is addicted to making lists - some people use lists as a way of feeling in control of their life. It actually has the opposite effect, as you have seen. Why in the world would your H make it a weekend priority to fix a fence, when what both of you need is time together, spent on each other? You can't even manage a back rub during the week! My friend, this is serious.

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He comes home so tired and so depressed. He no longer wants to be on call. He would be happy to be able to just stay home 24/7 with us at home with all of his projects that or traveling.

He may want to consider switching jobs.

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I've suggested he quit but he says he cannot.

Of course he can. He doesn't owe his soul to his employer.

I was concerned to read about the number of hours he is away from you. No one's getting any younger, here, TW. You're going to blink, and the kids will be gone. And there you'll be, with a list-making stranger repairing a fence in your back yard. I don't think that's what either of you want, is it?

I'd start with chucking the To-Do list so you can free up time for each other. (Side note: there are people who would be very happy to do things like fixing fences for a reasonable wage.)

The Policy of Undivided Attention Give this a read, TW, and let us know what you think.

15 hours seems impossible. I'm not even sure we did that when we were dating... Let me try to remember..he was in med school and I was in college 2 hours away. We did talk on he phone every other day or so. He would come up for the weekend. We would have a date on Friday night. He would spend Saturday studying at the library. ( He had to for his exams.) We would go to church together and have lunch and he would go back.

For those of you who say change jobs..what else does a surgeon do?? He is counting down the 8 years until retirement when the last kid is in college. He then wants to do full time mission work. I've tried to talk him into doing it now but the kids are still here so that won't work.. 15 hours...when. Honestly, how do I get him to give up the lists. I don't know how and I thought it wasn't about changing him but changing ME. I can't change him.. I have to find a way to live with it and be happy.

He feels like a failure because our 50 acre farm doesn't look like a showplace, his shop isn't perfectly organized, every patient doesn't have a perfect outcome, his kids aren't perfectly behaved, etc. and it is all HIS fault!!! sigh

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Honestly, how do I get him to give up the lists.

Have you asked him? Have you talked to him about this?

Think, TW. If you could have an afternoon with just the two of you on, say, Sunday - that's 4-6 hours right there. If he could cut back his work load to free up one hour a day, you're up to 10 hours. I'm not saying it's easy to do, once a marriage has dropped to the bottom of the priority list, but it is imperative. You've got to help push it back up to the top of the pile.

Brainstorm this. What would the two of you enjoy doing together?

All of you are using TW, what does that stand for? Think TW...?? MB stands for Marriage Builder but what does TW stand for. No.. I don't know how to talk to him.. I don't want to disappoint him or make things worse. Plus, how do I know that I am right... I mean lists are good. Sitting around doing nothing is being lazy, correct? Seriously, he sits and watches tv only when he is sick which is 2x a year. He APOLOGIZES for being lazy if he sits and watches a quarter of football. I know most wives would be envious as they would love to get there husbands off the couch. I just have the opposite problem..

We just got back from a 2 and 1/2 week vacation. ( He has to have 2 weeks off every quarter for his sanity. We have homeschooled so the kids can go with us, but now the older two are 17 adn 15 taking dual credit classes and can't go and we can't leave them and dh is depressed about that as well.) Anyway, in the middle of the night I was crying and he asked me what was wrong... I said that I didn't think he even liked me anymore. He said nothing..nothing. The next night in the middle of the night when neither of us could sleep he said that he was sorry that he loved me very, very much and was sorry I even felt like that... He then said that he thought that I cared more about the church stuff than him... I explained how I thought I was showing him love and then asked him how I could make him feel loved. We must be talking different love languages or something.. He just said, "I don't know.."

Honestly, I feel like he needs professional help but I don't know how to find it. Probably I do as well. Nor do I know how to work up the courage to even talk about it.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

But I am tired. I've looked in the phone book for counselors but I have to be so careful. He is scared to death of anyone thinking him weak. I cannot ask our pastor either...number 1 he was a patient and friend but our church is now a mess. Our pastor and another pastor have left. I am the peacemaker in this situation trying desperately to find a way to hold this together... There is no one to talk to there...plus they are all his patients....

Hi tiredwife, welcome to Marriage Builders. I was getting tired reading your post! My suggestion would be to sign up for the MB online course. Many of us have used this and have transformed our marriages. You would have daily access to Dr Harley, a licensed clinical psychologist, and he would help you and your husband change your lives so it is possible achieve a happy, romantic marriage.

The course is conducted online. You start off by watching Dr Harley's videos and then your assigned coach walks you through a series of lessons that span over a years time. You would have daily access to Dr Harley over on the private forum. My H and I went through this in 2007 and it is a wonderful program that really makes an amazing difference.

This would be perfect for your situation because you would be getting the very BEST in the business and it would be anonymous.

If you want to get an idea of how Dr Harley operates, click on his radio link above and you can hear him talk about his program.

One thing that stands out to me from reading your post is that your husband is probably depressed from his career. Dr Harley could help him look for solutions to that problem. Additionally, it seems that everything else comes BEFORE your marriage which means that your lifestyles can't sustain a happy marriage. When the marriage comes LAST, it withers and dies.

Here are some links I think might be helpful:

Meet Dr Harley

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

MB online course

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

I've tried to talk him into doing it now but the kids are still here so that won't work.. 15 hours...when. Honestly, how do I get him to give up the lists. I don't know how and I thought it wasn't about changing him but changing ME. I can't change him.. I have to find a way to live with it and be happy.

15 hours is only impossible when one puts the marriage last. There really IS time available when you prioritize and put less important things AFTER your own time is scheduled.

This is another reason why you need the help of Dr Harley. Dr Harley can be a great influence on him and help him find solutions that complement his marriage instead of harm it.

The worst thing you can do is just accept the status quo when you know it doesn't work. It doesn't work for you, for him and especially your marriage.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

Anyway, in the middle of the night I was crying and he asked me what was wrong... I said that I didn't think he even liked me anymore. He said nothing..nothing.

TW, the #1 cause of divorce is NEGLECT and you are right to be addressing this. You are the canary in the coal mine and you should not let up until there is a plan in place to change your marriage. You DON'T HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS.

If you can get him to agree to join the MB course, Dr Harley could help your husband make changes that would complement your marriage.

Dr H would tell you to not let up until this problem is resolved. Keep it on the front burner until it is addressed.

Hi, TiredWife. Welcome to Marriage Builders. Please stick with us and let us help you find out how to do all these things that seem impossible. If you will fix the most important problems in your life first (having a good marriage), you will find you have a lot more energy to tackle the other problems in life.

You will also have a fantastic ally: your husband.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

All of you are using TW, what does that stand for? Think TW...?? MB stands for Marriage Builder but what does TW stand for.

It stands for you!

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Honestly, I feel like he needs professional help but I don't know how to find it. Probably I do as well. Nor do I know how to work up the courage to even talk about it.

Would your husband post here?

Have you printed out any of the articles on this site and handed them to him? Dr. Harley's material is designed for wives to buy / pick up, and hand to their husbands, believe it or not.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane

Dr H would tell you to not let up until this problem is resolved. Keep it on the front burner until it is addressed.

This is right, TW. Be persistent. Make the other problems and issues in life lower priority, and stay on this one.

Your husband needs you to be honest about how important this is to you. You were made with this way, with these feelings, for a reason, and if he will address this, he'll discover what a blessing it is.

You need to be persistent in your requests to your husband, in the same way that a Christian needs to be persistent in requests to God:

Luke 18:
Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'

4 "For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself,
'Even though I don�t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won�t eventually come and attack me!'"

6 And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

Keep the problem on the front burner.

Oh my goodness no. He would be mortified to know I've even gone on this site. He is an open book. He tells me how he feels all of the time..constantly. I just don't want to make him feel like it is his fault. It is my problem. You probably noticed I deleted the original post just so no one will ever see it and recognize him. [/quote]

Would your husband post here?

Have you printed out any of the articles on this site and handed them to him? Dr. Harley's material is designed for wives to buy / pick up, and hand to their husbands, believe it or not.

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I will say that I have started a letter to him that spells out how I feel. I was wishing I could have someone look it over and see what they think. I just do better writing things down. I've just changed so much in how I feel about things since we were married and I'm not sure he would approve and don't know that it is fair that I am changing the rules. So I keep silent.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

Oh my goodness no. He would be mortified to know I've even gone on this site. He is an open book. He tells me how he feels all of the time..constantly. I just don't want to make him feel like it is his fault. It is my problem. You probably noticed I deleted the original post just so no one will ever see it and recognize him.

Would your husband post here?

Have you printed out any of the articles on this site and handed them to him? Dr. Harley's material is designed for wives to buy / pick up, and hand to their husbands, believe it or not.

[/quote] [/quote]

This stuff doesn't work if you are the only one doing it. You can't solve that 15 hour problem alone, for example. But if we can help you convince him that it is important enough to give it a try, the two of you will be able to solve that problem.

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I just don't want to make him feel like it is his fault. It is my problem.

No, it is a marital problem, and the two of you have to solve it together. You can't solve it alone, and you can't just make it not be a problem.

You need to be open and honest with your husband about the problem.

Have you read the basic concepts and articles on this site?

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

I will say that I have started a letter to him that spells out how I feel. I was wishing I could have someone look it over and see what they think. I just do better writing things down.

Please post it here, and the folks here will help look it over and suggest changes to make sure you stand the best chance of getting his attention with this problem.

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I've just changed so much in how I feel about things since we were married and I'm not sure he would approve and don't know that it is fair that I am changing the rules. So I keep silent.

It's not so much about rules -- people change in life all the time. The question is do we just follow life where it leads us and change randomly and chaotically, or do we study and plan and do it intentionally and, as married people, change WITH our husband and wife, so that we grow closer together, as God intended?

Tired Wife
My heart goes out to you. I get the impression you are both responsible hard working folks. Dr. Surgeon, homeschooling kids, wanting the best for them working your hardest to keep everything together. However you seem trapped in your roles. The old way of doing things is no longer working.

Your husband is a proud man who is used to dispensing answers and healing people, making a difference. Trained in a profession that requires being on 24/7. You have been supportive and understanding, wanting the best for everyone. But what do you do not that the old way is no longer working.

We grow up with ideas that will propel us into a successful life. And that measure of success can be very different from person to person. By this worlds measure you sound like you are successful financially, and with your family. But things are not working any longer. As the saying goes if things don't change they will stay the same. We naturally avoid change until we are forced to change or we hit bottom and there is no choice but to change. The winds of change are blowing in your life. You sound intelligent and sensitive so you see the early warning signs. However change involves some risk.

You are the best judge of your situation. From your post it sounds like your husband really cares. You likely shocked him the other night and that is why he did not respond. It sounds like he needs time to process things and give a reasoned response. It sounds like he is a hard worker. Do you understand why he is such a hard worker? What is his motivation? This will be part of the key to introduce change.

My suspicion is he relies on you more than you have indicated here. He sounds like an old fashioned guy. Work hard, gut it out, keep your shoulder to the wheel, things will work out in time. My suspicion is he relies on you for emotional intelligence. But because of his work ethic and his competence you hold back.

It is time for you to be the canary in the coal mine. He is likely feeling trapped too but does not know how to change. I suspect he needs your help. The first step is going to admit there is a problem. Determine what the problem is then find a solution.

You need a new way of doing things. Marriage Builders can give you a proven method of doing that. So it comes to some important questions around what your priorities are. Is your relationship more important than stuff? (i.e. the looks of the farm, the shop being messy) You both will have to agree on what is most important and give permission that some things will just not get done. I presume the relationship is important to you because that is why you are here. I presume the relationship is important to your husband too, but he is trying to show it by providing for your needs and working himself to death. ITS NOT WORKING!

So is it time to take the risk and make some changes? Or do you want to wait until you hit bottom and start thinking about separation and all the pain that goes with that. I think you know the answer to that question.

Talk to your husband. Make an appointment with the Harleys to get to the key issues. This will help your husband get some confidence in the process.

Good Luck
BC Boy

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Oh my goodness no. He would be mortified to know I've even gone on this site.

Which is why, I'm sure, that you deleted your original post. We all know that there is no way he would know you've been on this site unless you tell him. So it's not your concern that 'someone recognizes' him from the vague description you've given.

Why are you so afraid to talk to your husband? Why are you so afraid to tell him how you feel?

I'm not comfortable posting my letter on the message board. Would anyone be willing for me to send a pm to them so they could read it. I'm really not sure that I should give it to him. I don't want to hurt him.

nm

I wonder if you read our posts??

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

So see many times it is when do I talk to him??? AT 11pm, over the phone? 5am? (I'm normally up at 4 am anyway every day. I can't sleep.) When it is a weekend off, I don't want to ruin it for him by bringing up something unpleasant. He is in his overalls, digging weeds around the tomatoes or using the weedeater around the fencerow or his great love riding his tractor. It just doesn't seem like the right time.

How about giving him the letter you discussed? Complaints are a good thing in a good marriage and an irritant in a bad marriage. A complaint is like getting an NSF notice from the bank. Getting them is unpleasant, but not getting them is a disaster. Ask yourself what would happen if the bank never notified you of overdrafts.

A big source of the problems in your marriage is that you have NOT complained. That has led to a lack of problem solving that has resulted in an unhappy marriage. One cannot solve problems if they are ignored.

So would you be willing to read my letter to make sure it is ok?? Yes, I have read your posts.. But I don't tell my true feelings to anyone because I might be wrong and whose to say my point of view is correct? I just want everyone to be happy with me. If I share my view then they might not be... I don't have a clue how to do that.

Anyway, I need someone to read my letter to see if they think it will be ok.

Also, it isn't an unhappy marriage. I have no plans to leave him. Why would I? I love him so very much.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

Also, it isn't an unhappy marriage. I have no plans to leave him. Why would I? I love him so very much.

Yes, I would be happy to read your letter and give you feedback. However, if you were happy in your marriage, you would not be here seeking help. Your marriage is not happy at all. But we can help you change that!

No one has suggested you leave!

It says your pm is disabled. How do I send it to you?

Did you not want to post it, TW? If you could post it, others could also give you feedback. The PMs are disabled on this forum.

But it has names and such on it... Let me do some editing. Maybe I could just post it for a few hours and then delete it...

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

But it has names and such on it... Let me do some editing. Maybe I could just post it for a few hours and then delete it...

good idea!

nm

TW, first off, I would cut that back to about 3 -5 short, CONCISE paragraphs. Reading through this I have no idea what you want, other than to give your opinion of HIM and toss out some disrespectful judgments. He can't possibly know what you want. Your issues aren't even stated here, that you are unhappy and would like to have a happier marriage. That is the TRUTH and this problem will never be fixed if you want to tap dance around that.

Instead of judging him, I would tell him about your unhappiness and how you think that can resolved.

Nor does "love languages" have any kind of plan to repair marriages..It is strictly a program about communication. It has no plan to restore the love in a marriage. And people who are in love don't have problems "communicating!" So please, my friend, don't pettifog the issue with stuff from LL and the "love tank."

Start off with your main point in your first paragraph and then drill down. Remove all the superfluous information about your own childhood, his cholesterol, his lists, etc because that is a distraction. There are also several disrespectful judgments in here, ie: "You want to spend so much time on our family: vacations, getting our place to look right. You don�t seem to care about the community or even church involvement. Jesus is important to you but not the community." What needs to be in this letter is this:

1. I love you

2. I am very unhappy

3. BECAUSE I LOVE YOU, I want us to have a happy, fulfilling marriage

4. here is how I think we can achieve this.

More is not better when you are communicating your needs to your husband. Precise, concise language is imperative with a detached spouse.

I hope this helps!

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

It isn�t your fault I feel this way.

TW, it *IS* his fault that you feel neglected and that is what he needs to understand. Until he accepts this, and does something to make changes, nothing will change. It is his job to make you happy and it is your job to make him happy.

I would write a letter that goes something like this:

My dearest husband,

I am writing this letter because we have so little time together and this is very important to me. I am hopeful you will read this over and take time to think about it so we can formulate a plan together.

I want our marriage to be the happiest place in our lives and I know it is not. I know it can be, though. I feel it is the lowest priority in our lives, behind church, your career, our home chores, vacations, everything. I can't remember the last time we went out on a date with just us two. We don't spend enough time together to sustain a happy, fulfilled, intimate marriage.

It is because of my love for you that I feel I must be honest about my feelings. I have felt neglected and unhappy for a very long time. I yearn for the intimacy and romance that we once had. I want our marriage to be our greatest source of happiness.

I have been investigating and have found a plan that is supposed to restore the love to our marriage. It is a step by step plan that always works when it is followed. Would you be interested in joining me in this program?

All my love, tiredwife45

But that isn't what i want. I want him to go get help so he will finally be happy. That is all I want..for him to be happy. I am unhappy because he is unhappy.

"You need help" rarely goes over well in marriage. It's a disrespectful judgment.

"I need help. Your behavior is bothering me, and I need your help to effect change so I can be happy" will go over much better.

When you give him this letter, I would print this out and include it:

When should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem."

Undivided Attention

And this is from his book, Effective Marriage Counseling:

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley

When I found that the model I've developed had helped over 90% of those I was counseling, I gave up my career as a college professor and started counseling full-time. At the time, I didn't assume that it would save all of the marriages it seemed to help, because I felt there were factors beyond a couple's control. But after 35 years of experience with this model, I'm not convinced that it works with 100% of couples who follow it. I've yet to witness one couple out of the tens of thousands I've seen, that did not experience a healthy and happy marriage by following this model. Personally, I feel it's the only answer to the question, how can a couple have a great marriage for life?

But it's very difficult to prove that one model of marital satisfaction is superior to another. The ultimate test is to randomly assign couples to various models and to measure their marital satisfaction after the provisions of each model have been implemented.

The training of therapists is a huge problem: How can we be sure that the therapist assigned to each model was properly trained? And there's also the problem of representation and random assignment: Does the group of volunteer couples represent the population at large? And is the assignment to treatment groups really random? There's also the ethical problem of assigning couples to a control group where they receive no effective treatment. When they divorce, does the researcher bear any responsibility? Finally, if someone who has a stake in the outcome does the research, it usually shows that their approach is best. Shouldn't studies of alternative models of marital satisfaction be conducted by those neutral to the outcome?

My own personal experience led me to the model I've been using for the past 35 years. But that's not proof of it's superiority over other models. What I need is objective studies conducted by those who have no bias that compare this model to others. That's hard to find even among those who have published hundreds of articles on martial therapy.

But I can direct you to three studies that support my enthusiasm. They all deal with my book, His Needs, Her Needs, the popular application of my model, and the effect it has on couples that read it.

The readers of Marriage Partnership Magazine were asked which self-help book on marriage helped their marriages the most. In that survey, His Needs, Her Needs came out on top. I didn't know that the survey was even being conducted, so when I called the editor after the results came in, I was curious to know more. He told me that it not only was the top choice, but it was far ahead of second place (Ron R. Lee. Best Books for a Better Marriage: Reader's Survey . Marriage Partnership Magazine, Spring 1998).

In a national survey that I sponsored, people were asked if any self-help book on marriage solved their marital problems. Out of 57 books that were read, only three were reported to have actually solved marital problems. The three were the Bible, James Dobson's Love for a Lifetime, and His Needs, Her Needs (Lynn Hanacek Gravel. Americans and Marriage: National Survey of US Adults. Barna Research Group, 2001).

Finally, five out of six couples that read His Needs Her Needs were found to experience significant improvement in marital satisfaction (Julie D. Braswell. The Impact of Reading a Self-Help Book on the Topic of Gender Differences on One's Perceived Quality of Marriage. Doctoral Dissertation, 1998, Azusa Pacific University.

Granted, these findings are not conclusive evidence that the model I use is superior to every other model of marital satisfaction. But when you find one that works for every couple that actually follows it, you have to be impressed. And coming as I did from almost zero effectiveness to almost complete success, I can't begin to tell you how convinced I am that it's the solution to a very difficult problem we face in our society.

So I should reword the letter to please get help so I can be happy????

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

But that isn't what i want. I want him to go get help so he will finally be happy. That is all I want..for him to be happy. I am unhappy because he is unhappy.

Your marriage is unhappy. Your unhappiness comes from an unhappy marriage. People are not happy because someone else is happy, but because THEY are happy.

And I know why he is unhappy. It is very likely because of his career, which is something Dr Harley could help him with. Men are typically depressed over their careers, women over their marriages.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

So I should reword the letter to please get help so I can be happy????

You are unhappy because you are being neglected in your marriage. He is not meeting your needs in any way, shape, or form.

****edit***

TW, i just read through your long post and that is not the sentiment of someone who can be made happy just because someone else is happy. That is not how a happy marriage is created. A happy marriage is created when spouses are meeting each others needs and spending enough ALONE with each other to sustain a marriage. Your marriage does none of that.

You told him in that letter about his lack of attention to your needs. A person gets married with the expectation that their needs will be met. Perhaps he is meeting your need for financial support, but that is it.

I think there is a lot wrong here that is not being faced.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

But he has said that if he died he isn't sure anyone would care. That it is taking everything he has to go to work. He has lost weight. He is having severe headaches.. ... To me that sounds like he is depressed. I just can't give him the letter you suggest, but I won't give him mine either.... Thanks anyway.

Then why won't you take my advice and have Dr Harley work with him? I don't understand. You say you are looking for solutions and when those solutions are given, you don't listen to them.

Are you really looking for solutions?

So I am supposed to say, Honey you remember this book we read several years ago. You need to call him and talk to him.'

I don't know how to make myself say that.

You are making it sound like he doesn't love me. He is such a sweet, considerate man. He is trying the best he can. It isn't his fault that I live inside my head..

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

So I am supposed to say, Honey you remember this book we read several years ago. You need to call him and talk to him.'

I don't know how to make myself say that.

Exactly! Radical honesty is the first step. You can't fix a problem unless you are honest about it. This is why I suggested sending him a letter.

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You are making it sound like he doesn't love me. He is such a sweet, considerate man. He is trying the best he can. It isn't his fault that I live inside my head..

It is his fault that he is not meeting your needs and puts his marriage LAST on his list of priorities. That is why people get married. People don't get married to be roommates, TW.

And it is also your fault because you are not practicing radical honesty by telling him this.

I am sure he does have caring love for you, but that is not enough to sustain a marriage. The kind of love we are discussing here is romantic love. That is what constitutes happy, fulfilling marriages.

Yes, when I read that book and got to radical honesty. I cringed. I guess I should just quit because I have never, ever been honest with anyone in my whole entire life. , I'm not even sure what i think or feel about some things... Sorry I wasted your time... I'm going back to my hole now. Never mind...

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

Yes, when I read that book and got to radical honesty. I cringed. I guess I should just quit because I have never, ever been honest with anyone in my whole entire life. , I'm not even sure what i think or feel about some things... Sorry I wasted your time... I'm going back to my hole now. Never mind...

Radical honesty is much like getting overdraft notices from the bank. It might be unpleasant to get the notices, but the alternative is worse. A complaint in marriage is an opportunity to make improvements. In a bad marriage it is an irritant and something to be avoided.

Just think it over, TW. I realize you aren't used to these ideas and probably need some time to let it sink in. We will be here to help when you are ready.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

But that isn't what i want. I want him to go get help so he will finally be happy. That is all I want..for him to be happy. I am unhappy because he is unhappy.

You want him to 'go get help'...where?? His help lies with YOU and HIM.

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

But he has said that if he died he isn't sure anyone would care. That it is taking everything he has to go to work. He has lost weight. He is having severe headaches.. ... To me that sounds like he is depressed. I just can't give him the letter you suggest, but I won't give him mine either.... Thanks anyway.

YES! You're getting it! He's unhappy. And YOU'RE unhappy. The two of you can change that! But SOMEONE is going to have to fire the first shot to do this. He doesn't know what to do. We're telling you what to do. You now have the knowledge, TW. That means YOU are going to have to step up to the plate. Will you do this?

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

So I am supposed to say, Honey you remember this book we read several years ago. You need to call him and talk to him.'

I don't know how to make myself say that.

You are making it sound like he doesn't love me. He is such a sweet, considerate man. He is trying the best he can. It isn't his fault that I live inside my head..

Yes. This is exactly what you should do. As a matter of fact, you should do this instead of writing him a long, well-thought-out letter. Just put it on the table, TW. MAKE YOURSELF SAY IT.

I am one thousand percent sure he loves you. I am also one thousand percent sure that the two of you have lost yourselves in the business of Life. The two of you have lost your way. You can get that back!

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

Yes, when I read that book and got to radical honesty. I cringed. I guess I should just quit because I have never, ever been honest with anyone in my whole entire life. , I'm not even sure what i think or feel about some things... Sorry I wasted your time... I'm going back to my hole now. Never mind...

Do you know how refreshing it is to say what you're thinking? Try it. It is so freeing!

No one will die from hearing your honesty.

And TW? Please stop posting and then deleting your posts. Commit, woman! Put your words out there if you mean them! Do you know how many posters are standing by, ready to help you? I've had to fill in some blanks, and I'm okay doing that, but you don't know how many posters may be in your exact spot - if you delete everything, you lose help.

But do I even have a right to want those things?*****edit**** And I have the gall to complain that my husband and I don't have fun.... That is just so wrong.....

I will pray about what all of you have said. I don't know that I can do it, but I will pray. I am fasting today for my meeting this evening..a meeting I do not want to go to. I hate conflict of any kind, especially in the church. It will not be fun. I need to be able to speak truth tonight and don't know that I can.. I am the chairman but fear I will spend tonight in tears unable to speak...

What you are trying to do is endure a bad sitution by comparing yourself to the lowest common demoninator you can find. You should know something is wrong when you have to do that. But you don't have to live like that. It doesn't benefit your husband, yourself or GOD to have a bad marriage, my dear friend. You can greatly improve the quality of your lives with a little work.

People don't get married to have an empty, bad marriage. They get married with the expectation that their needs will be met so that together they present a complete unit that is better equipped to serve God.

TW,

You are hurting, and it appears that your husband is hurting.

Ever stop to think why he makes time to call you 10 times a day?

Don't you think he would rather be with you, than calling you?

The entire source of both of your issues at this time is a lifestyle that is completely incompatible with marriage at all, let alone a fulfilling marriage.

Early on, it was suggested that maybe he should find a different job.

Your response?

"What else does a surgeon do?"

Here's an answer;

Whatever the hell he wants.

He should have a solid trifecta - licensing, experience, competence.

He doesn't HAVE to work in the fashion he does - he may be compelled to do so, but there is still a choice involved.

Obviously, the lifestyle he chose at this point is not fulfilling to him - not to mention the woman he vowed to spend his life with.

TW, what you have described above is unconditional love, which is very destructive to marriage. AND unBiblical too! Dr Harley is a Christian and he has written 2 very good articles on this subject. PLEASE take the time to read them:

What�s Wrong with Unconditional Love
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

What�s Wrong with Unconditional Love (Part 2)
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

Not YOU NEED as that's a DJ. Say I think it would help US if you called him.

Or better yet, YOU call the man who wrote the book! I'm not sure you need to wait for your husband to call. Dr H may know from first hand experience what your next step should be.

Neither we, nor Dr H can make your husband want to do anything. But you can be coached in the ways of MB so you can entice your husband on-board.

So rather than delivering the message to your husband that you think he's broken and he needs to call Dr H, why not take the approach that you are going to engage Dr H to see what you need to do to get your husband on-board?

Originally Posted by tiredwife45

So I am supposed to say, Honey you remember this book we read several years ago. You need to call him and talk to him.'

I don't know how to make myself say that.

You are making it sound like he doesn't love me. He is such a sweet, considerate man. He is trying the best he can. It isn't his fault that I live inside my head..

Hi, TiredWife. In response to your "do I have a right to want these things?" I have a question for you. As you state that your husband loves you, don't you think he WANTS to make you happy too? That his happiness also depends on your happiness? How is he going to know what makes you happy if you don't tell him? How will he know how to avoid lovebusters to your love bank if he doesn't know what they are because you are too afraid to tell him?

How would you feel if something about your cooking is bothering your husband but he doesn't say a word about it for years? As an example, let's say you always add too much salt to the food to his taste. Would you want him to tell you? Or should he just endure his taste buds being assaulted daily because he has "no right" to want food with less salt? There are many people starving across the world after all, who would give their left kidney just to have the crumbs of what he is eating. Besides, you made the food with so much love and went through so much effort... as long as you are happy with how you made the food, he will just force it down and keep quiet. Would you want him to keep quiet or would you want him to ask you to maybe use less salt on his portion of the food?