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Tatjana Offline OP
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thanks Soolee:-( It's very hurting what my husband is doing to me. he kept on saying that he loves me but his actions is not showing it anymore.last time i heard him talking to his friend and i think his friend is suggesting him to leave me or send me home:-( i wanted to talk to him about this but i still don't know how to start and when. our last discussion was quite too much even he himself said that as well and i want to have a quiet weekend as much as possible, i have the feeling that we're both trying to avoid not to have such discussions again.tomorrow we said that we'll call the coach a psychotherapist.
i would like to ask some advice how can i talk to him about him talking secretly to his friend that he will not offend.
any suggestions will be appreciated...
thanks:-(

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I would go with a concerned attitude:

"I'm concerned about a situation that seems to be affecting our marriage. My husband has a close male friend, who seems to be taking my place as my husband's closest confidante, and I feel it is damaging to our marriage. I believe he is coercing my husband into either sending me home or leaving me. I don't believe he's a friend to our marriage. He is encouraging my husband to resume a single lifestyle."

Tatjana...it's important that you voice your fears. All the better to do that with an intermediary present if you feel your husband will get upset.

How you deal with it afterwards when it's just the two of you is tell him again it's from a position of concern that you voiced your fears and that you feel very hurt that he is not defending or protecting you and the marriage like he should.

You can tell him that you want to work on strengthening the marriage, but feel like you are swimming upstream as long as the friend is trying to pull him away from the marriage. You may tell him that either the friend become a supporter of the marriage or he may need to reconsider the friendship if he wants to effectively strengthen the marriage.

Emotional affairs come in all sizes and shapes. They don't just have to happen with two heterosexual people of opposite sex. It can be a platonic friendship like this that erodes and weakens the marriage as well.

Last edited by Soolee; 01/14/10 10:34 AM.

Sooly

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thanks Soolee for your advice and the words.
Last week we had quite an argument again because it sounded that my husband was trying to defend his friend than me and it seems he's not respecting my feelings anymore. For him as long as he's happy to spend time with his friend it's ok
What I can accept is whenever he will talk every thing we had discussed and what he don't like about our situation and he's not talking it to me:-( it's kind of hurtful.

Anyway hope the counselling will help us see where is really the problem why we are like this?
Thanks

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Tatjana Offline OP
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hi again, the other day, I wanted to talk and discuss with my husband. And every time I asked him something, he tends to defend himself and he even told me that I'm getting paranoid. I can't talk to him anymore and don't know what to do? :-(
I even heard him telling his friend that he lost interest on both of us. But what I don't undertand is, he is showing me the other way around. He still keep on telling me that he loves me, and he cares for me. But when I asked him, about what he said to his friend, he denied it. And he told me that I'm getting paranoid. I even heard their conversation that he asked his friend what he's going to do with me? When I asked him about this he said he'll never ask that because he's already old to know what to do. But I clearly heard it:-( Why is he defending his friend?... then he told me that I have a problem in trusting him. He told me that why is it that I'm not trusting him?...
if you start to ask is it already something to do with trust?
And whenever his friend call him and if I'm sometimes beside him, he would say first that I'm beside him. For me, it sounded that please don't talk about our topic because my wife is here...
I really don't know what to do now? It seeems he's trying to do some things which leave bad impression so that I'll realize it that he don't love me anymore. What I don't understand he'll tell his friend like this and if he's talking to me he'll say it on the other way around. I can't understand. Do all men do this if they are not interested in a relationship?
Thanks

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Wow, Tatjana, that's a really tough spot there. How about keeping him busy doing fun things the two of you? Planning fun trips together, so he's already taken his vacation when the friend wants to go away with him again? Have you read the articles on Thoughtful REquests, Respectful Persuasion, and Negotiation in the Basic Concepts section.


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Tatjana - I'm not sure what to say. If it were me, I'd be doing some investigating. Knowing this place, I'd go over to the SAA (Surviving an affair) board and just pick their brains for ideas on how to dig deeper just to make sure you know what you're up against.

Maybe stop the relationship talk for now because I think it's making him want to hide his conversations more and to be more guarded. And don't tell him anything that you might find out for a while.

Maybe it's nothing major going on, but the fact that he's being secretive is concerning.


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I'm guessing that he is acting this way because he doesn't like being in the hot seat. This dates back to being a kid. If we don't like what people are asking us - if that subject makes us look bad - we try to avoid it however we can. It sounds stupid, but try telling him that you want to discuss what isn't working WITHOUT making it a judgment about each other; it just IS.

You could try setting up one night a week to discuss relationship stuff, and leave it off the rest of the week, so that you can build up 'good' time. It sounds like you're asking him about what he's doing 'wrong'...all the time. No one wants to be around someone who constantly shows him how bad he is.

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that's what some of my friends also think. They think he's like a kid who's lost now because he doesn't know what to do. He wants the presence of his friend and also at the same time he's kind of scared to let me go. If that's what he's friend is telling him. Because last time I heard him asking his friend, what is he going to do with me? I was surprised when I heard it when he called over the phone. And he just replied, sh**, sh** and he somehow laugh.
I asked him, why he asked it he denied it and he said he'll never do that because he's old enough to do what he wants to do and not his friend. And he started to throw back all these stuffs against me. He said why I didn't tell it to him right away if that bothers me and it seems my behavior is kind of paranoid because I listened. I told him that I only heard the first words you said and then I didn't listen anymore. And he told me that I'm paranoid. In 2 weeks we will go to a coach and I'm not sure if I have to tell this to the coach about what happened. It could be the coach would ask me to prove it and I can't.
@NewEveryDay: I would love to organize fun things for both of us so that we can spend time together. But it seems he's trying to avoid it. And like last time, he also mentioned it to his friend that he don't have interest to both of us. Every time I organize something for both of us, it looks like I'm forcing him to do things he doesn't like and the result is not always good. I'm sad and tired about what's happening to both of us. Just right after his holidays, he changed alot. It seems that, he was badly influenced by this friend of him :-( and it's hurting me so bad. He exchanged our 3 years of marriage just by a week of holidays and by going to the bar the whole week and could be flirting around with girls.
Where can I find the articles you mentioned? Thanks

@Soolee: I am not talking anymore since we had discussion 2 weeks ago about what he said. And he denied it:-( It makes me so sad:-( because then I know he was lying. I thought if he did lie on that was only little question, that explained all his actions before his holidays why he was acting so weird, that means he did lie whole throughout. It's very painful to know that the one you love is the one who will hurt you. I'm trying to talk to him directly in the eyes but he usually insert some uninteresting topics like Math, our computers, his work at the office and movies. It seems he doesn't want to mention anything about us, where is our relationship going or what is happening to us.
Like last week when I told him that I'm quite sad about us, he said then quite angrily, why I always make things so complicated and always worry. For him, it seems ok and me I'm always looking for something to discuss and cry about. And he don't know anymore how to meet all those expectations. I just cried again, because it seems he didn't get the point. He didn't even listen to how I feel or even try to listen and ask why I'm acting like this. The moment I start to explain, it's always me who's making the fault :-( Now I feel that I'm always the cause of our problems which is I don't understand. I actually don't say too much and just let him do whatever he wants.
What's hurtful is, if he doesn't have any interest to both of us, why is he being unfair? I mean, if he don't like to work on our marriage why is he doing this to me? If he's seeing his friend he's talking all our problems that I'm like this, like that and strange and weird. But when he talks to me, he say he love me, he care for me and I'm his love of his life:-(
I don't understand... why?...

@catperson: I would love to do this every week, but it seems my husband doesn't have any energy anymore for this:-( I'm so sad, I know I love him very much and I trusted him, but he broke my trust:-( I don't know what to say anymore and what to think. I'm just so sad :-(





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Hi again the other day we had a big fight again. I don't know it just started from small things & then we ended up dead end.

We decided to have a tour in the mountain two days ago. But the night before our trip, he went out with his friend again and had dinner. A friend of mine invited me for a drink, so I went out as well.
That night he and his friend drank a lot, which is usually not a problem for me. Before if he goes out with this friend, I'm always happy to hear that they're having a fun time. When he went home he was drank and it was quite late though I went home later than him.
The following day, when we woke up the first thing that I heard from him was he had headache. I was quite concerned because we will be driving almost 45 minutes and I'm not sure what would be his condition afterwards. Usually if he has headache you can't do anything with him because he has headache. So I just kept quiet and didn't mind at all. I gave him water to drink and hopefully our trip would be wonderful even if he was not feeling well. He told me that maybe it was the alcohol that they drank the other night. I still kept quiet.
When we arrived at the station where we had to go to the mountain, I noticed that we were not actually talking much. While waiting for the next cable car going to the top of the mountain, we agreed to have a little walk around the station. So we walked and we saw a hotel which was being renovated. The hotel has a fence, and there was a sign said : Not allowed to enter something like that...But he tried to open it...I just looked what he was doing and asked him lately why are you trying to open that it has a sign which says not allowed to enter... he was so happy doing it and then he replied, just nothing. Sometimes its good to do something which are not allowed. I was shocked about his reply because I never know him like that, he's usually the person who's always careful of everything & now he's trying to break a rule. In my mind, I was thinking what does he mean? It sounded like he did something bad and he was happy to relay it to me that it's good to do something bad. His facial expression was kind of strange and he was kind of weird. I felt like crying coz it seems it confirmed all my hypothesis what they did when they were away. He saw me that I had tears, I didn't want to show it to him but with all my experiences since then, it's just like dead end for me and sometimes I have the feeling that his pointing back fingers on me. Nothing seems to be right. If I react like this, he'll judge it differently. I wanted to tell him how I feel but I know he'll never understand it and I think he'll get mad why the h*** will I think like that to him. So when we were at the top of the mountain, we walked and just continue walking quietly until we met our couple friends. Actually they're already old coz they are the parents of one of his friends. The guy commented that I look like not ok and he wanted to borrow me coz he found me cute. And they started to laugh even the wife. I just smiled. And my husband replied, no, no i will still keep her for a little while. After that I asked him what does it mean, he said that it was just a joke. I told him it doesn't sound that it was a joke. I felt sad and I can't control my feelings. We tried to clear things up and he said he understand if I'll react like that because maybe I didn't understand their humor. We were quite ok and we went to have a bite, we wanted to have their specialty but we didn't know that the restaurant where we were, is also serving that. So he told me that there's actually a new restaurant opening that day and if I like we can go. I was happy about it. I said we can only eat something small and then later we can go to this restaurant. But when I said that, I can see on his face that he doesn't like to go. So I didn't comment because he was quiet afterwards. When we arrived home, the first time he told me was that, if it's ok for me if we're going to stay at home because he had headache. I said ok, but I was quite of sad because I wanted to go out with him having a drink. When we checked the opening of the restaurant, he mixed up the dates. So instead that day, the opening will be a week after. And he made a reservation for next week. I said ok. And he kept on saying that he has headache and then he started to prepare our food in the kitchen. I made a remark that his friend is a bad influence to him. And he told me that I shouldn't start any discussion again. I was kind of sad. I fixed myself and told him that I wanted to have a walk clearing my mind while him preparing for our dinner. I don't know if I over reacted but it sounds that if he's out with his friend even if its already late, he can manage it and even drink a lot. I know this is not good to compare, but I feel that my husband is not enjoying our times together, that he's making a lot of excuses like he's having a headache or tired and he needs some sleep.
But anyway, after I asked him, he told me that he's kind of worried about me because why I usually go for a walk if I have something to say, why I don't discuss it to him. I told him I would love to discuss it with you but the problem is he'll never understand and we'll start to fight and we start to shout each other. And he then told me, of course, it will not be all goody-goody times all the time. When he was telling this he's already shouting and kind of mad. I know we will start to discuss again. He asked me to tell him what's my problem and he'll listen. I trusted what he said so I didn't go for a walk instead I pour out all the hurtaches I had that day to him. Until such time we started to shout each other. When I told him, that I was kind of sad that he has headache and I don't understand why he has to drink a lot knowing that we will be out for the whole day. So how can I enjoy my time with him if I know that he's not feeling well? He then told me that I'm selfish because it's always what I want to be followed and it seems that I don't want him to enjoy with his friend. But that was not my point...
He seems to blame me that even he has headache we were still able to go out to the mountain. I told him I didn't decide it alone. We decided it together because I thought he also wanted to go. But it seems, he only did that so that at the end he has something to throw back to me, that we did this because that's what I wanted which was not actually the case. I actually give him another options like going for a swim if we could not make it to the mountain. But it seems he really wanted to go there as well. And I was surprised that in the end, it seems like I forced him to go to this place because that's what I want and he has headache...
I don't know...then we started to talk the things happened before they went for holidays and that he was dishonest to me and why is he defending his friend and stuffs like that....

He said that he can't feel that he's being trusted in this relationship. I told him that I trusted him but he broke it :-(
His acting that his treating his friend better than me :-( and even defend his friend....

I tried to explain him my side and he was so angry and I can't talk with him anymore until he said that he will call it a time out because we're kind of dead-end. Not only that he's also trying to mix things up right now, telling me that I didn't understand it before how they told me why they are going on holidays. Now it's my fault that I didn't understand it...

I cried again alone without showing it to him.... It's very hurtful what my husband is doing to me... after that he acted normally again as if we didn't have a fight.
He started to talk about computers and stuff like that... which was for me so odd. Because it seems that he don't want to work things out, and now we are just waiting for our appointment with the coach. I hope he can really help us to understand where is the problem really :-(

Did I over reacted? Am I being selfish?

please tell me :-(


Last edited by Tatjana; 01/28/10 10:35 AM.
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Tatjana:

I'm not sure. What I do think is that you need to get to the bottom of his faithfulness, and you aren't going to get a straight answer by just asking him or talking about it because people who might not be faithful are good actors.

I'm not saying he's cheating, but some of his behaviors are not that of a married man.

Good luck with this, and let us know what the coach says.


Sooly

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Tatjana,

Did you read about Love Busters in that link that Sooly gave you? As I read your thread, I'm seeing you harming yourself and your husband using Disrespectful Judgments (DJs).

And I believe you do not want to do harm. You seem to be a very dedicated, loving, focused young woman who wants to benefit her spouse and the marriage, and enjoy the benefits of marriage.

Marriage is hard. Just as your H said about his experience of how invasive it is...didn't really want to give up his privacy for intimacy, which essentially is what Marriage truly is...because when we make our vows, get married, we are saying in advance, that we promise to act from love, even when we don't really like our spouses at the moment.

And that's true. We are promising to come to know all of our spouses...all parts of themselves, over time, great, good, neutral and awful parts...to take all of them; and to also show them all our parts, too. Very tough to go from knowing the image of your boyfriend to really knowing the human being who is your spouse.

Everyone works through, I believe, what you are doing now. You cannot make the road smooth, without conflict--potholes or hills. Conflict aides intimacy...depending on your choices on how to act during conflict.

Assuming your H will never understand your feelings...is harming your marriage. Assumptions do that. He assumed a lot of stuff about you before you married and in the first couple of years...and living together, intimately, breaks those assumptions...and yes, we can feel pretty lost about where we are, even who we are and who we married.

What I read is that your H does love you and acts from love in ways you do not consider loving. Some are hard to see for you, which is reasonable, those actions don't count as much to you as they do to him. And vice versa.

I don't believe either of you really are listening to the other. He fears your sadness and you fear his anger. Can you think about how sadness to him can feel like you rejecting him, just as his anger can feel like rejection to you?

Your feelings are yours. They are what they are. They are valid and real. Does not make them fact, they cannot prove anything...respect them as is. His feelings are his. They are valid and real...and really his.

Did you hear that he sees you as complicated and that he worries about your feelings? And then you tell him he can never understand your feelings...how much that would hurt him. He very much wants to control your feelings...make you happy, make you never sad, never angry, afraid or in pain. That's like a child's wishfulness, though. Not real in our adult marriages.

Still, good to know. Neither can you make him happy, never sad, angry, rebellious, polite, respectful, never angry, afraid or in pain. And you try to do that a lot, I think, to manage/control his emotions...saying "yes" to make him happy, stop talking to make him calm or agreeable again...even when saying "yes" goes contrary to your instinct, your gut telling you (like phucket) this is a different agreement...you're being manipulated...and you say "yes" anyway.

You betrayed yourself and felt very betrayed. Your feelings come from you, your beliefs, they follow your actions. And in doing so, you lie to your H. I think he knows you lie to him, just as you know he lies to you. Marriage is working toward radical honesty, no lies...not where we begin in marriage, in my experience.

So, you clear up where you do harm, disrespect and lie. You evaluate what only you control, your actions...and don't judge yourself good or bad...just strive to see clearly what your tears really mean, what they are about, and if your goal is to understand your H or to get him to stop hurting you.

Because when we are afraid, when we hurt, have strong feelings of frustration and misunderstanding, we do act like the children we were, instead of the adults we are. Great to be aware of what triggers us, aware when we react when we really want to act, instead...and know when we're acting out our feelings (like crying, yelling, defining others), or informing our partner of our feelings.

Please read about the Four Rules of Marriage...find it on this website, order the books, and know that what you're going through isn't over-reacting (it's reacting that is blocking intimacy with H, in part), isn't bad or wrong...just not what you want. Work on what you control...in a week, you'll have hopefully, someone to hear both of you, when you won't really listen to each other, who can teach each of you to really listen, striving first to understand, then to be understood...and bring you back to where you began...doing things you fell in love with other doing...making old patterns new again, with awareness...

And not trying to change each other, which is impossible and causes conflicts.

Sooly said (I think) that what you're really asking of your H is that he ask his friend to be a friend of your marriage. To put The Marriage first, not H...because otherwise, his friend's influence harms the marriage, even if it seemingly benefits H.

And ask the counselor for what you want most...to deal with honesty (and that means you knowing your own stuff, knowing what actions you took that resulted in your feelings...like telling yourself that your H is mocking you, when he is not, and knowing the difference...which is tough, Tatjana, in my life, too) and sharing your feelings as YOURS...sharing how you experience H as your own experience...not proving anything.

Key part of meeting ENs (the link to the questionnaire) is knowing you choose to act from love and stop reacting from hurt.

And keep your feelings talks at first to just once a week, also as you were advised, because your H hears HE is at fault, the problem, just as you are his statements as making you at fault, all wrong.

Each of you is having the same experience...you cannot control how he hears you, what he hears in your words...you can only control how you hear his words...and be really honest with what you hear. If you're listening to not feel at fault...then you have an agenda...and it will twist what he's really saying. If you are listening to really know H...then you won't twist it, 'k?

You both continue to discover each other day by day. And you're right, it's important what H chose to do to the marriage, taking his holiday separate from you, the money, the lies, the place, the manipulation. You're not crazy. You can't really know what he did there until you both get to a place of personal honesty.

Hold yourself to being honest and catching your own lies. You'll cry a lot less. You dwell in a place inside full of rejection, neglect and distrust...it's hard right now for you. Won't be hard forever...and it may feel like you'll always feel this way. You won't. You'll change your choices and feel differently. I promise.

You can do this.

LA

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@LovingAnyway: thanks for your advices. Yes i did read about the love busters.

I just would like to clarify something...about when my husband said that I'm making things complicated. I don't know what made him say that, but he's giving me the feeling that every time, I will say something he'll start to criticize it and sometimes i have the feeling that he wants me to listen what he thinks or on his point of view. And if I started to explain my side because I also wanted to be hear because sometimes I feel that things are not right, he started to be aggressive and will start to speak in a very loud tone of voice. Sometimes these are only little things and I usually don't react because I expect that it's just normal but if its for all the time at the end I explode and I don't want to talk. If he wants me to talk I start but then he's still like angry and it made me feel insecure to share to him my feelings. because the moment I'll say that's often his reactions.

I hope that he will also do something our marriage. Because what I don't understand is, he kept on saying that he loves me but then behind my back he's talking bad things about me to his friend :-(

The other day I saw some notes on his PC telling his friend again that we had a fight and he wants to tell his friend again about what happened to us :-( But whenever he talks to me, he's now sweet and let me believe that things are fine and that he loves me. So how should one react on this? He expects me to trust him but what his actions are sometimes inappropriate? And he's the one speaking all the time about "trust" and that he don't feel trusted in this relationship?....

How would I react?

But thanks for the links here, will try to read the other parts. Btw where can I find the one you suggested rules of marriage.

Thanks again

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He may not be able to see what you see in terms of the friend. This may be something good to bring up with the counselor you're going to see, in a concerned manner.

If your husband has an issue with you, he should be discussing it with you and not the friend. By discussing it with his friend, he is eliminating a need to talk about it and then the problem never gets solved with the one person it should be solved with.

As far as the discussions with him, it's important that each of you be heard. That's going to mean maintaining eye contact and not interrupting, allowing each other to finish. I would hear him through. When it appears he is finished, ask him if he's finished and if he is, tell him what your thoughts are. Set a good example of how you want to be heard.

If you avoid using the terms "you never" or "you always" it will put him less on the defensive. If you use terms like "I feel" or "It feels like" it will be hard for him to discredit because these are your feelings, not accusations.

When your husband tells you something, you can validate and mirror, which is done by repeating what he said in your own words, to make sure you understood it like he meant it. If you understand it wrong, this gives him an opportunity to correct it or reword it so that you will understand what he meant.



Sooly

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Perhaps if you begin to listen to him without interruption and show interest and not opposition, he will respond in kind. Be open to what he is saying. Drop the defenses. Consider your answers carefully. Wait until he is done.

Listening is a skill. It doesn't come easy for everyone, but practice makes perfect. God gave you one mouth and two ears, so that you will listen twice as much as you will speak. ((Tatjana)) Hang in there.

I am not saying your husband is right, but learning to listen (not necessarily obey) is a primary skill in any relationship. If you want respect and consideration, you have to show respect and consideration.

Last edited by Soolee; 01/30/10 08:22 AM.

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thanks Soolee. We were already with our coach last week. And it's quite a pity that we only had 1 hour. So we were not able to discuss everything. The meeting with our coach went fine. He asked about our background and we answered him back with our information like how we met, how long are we married, where did we meet, etc...
And the coach told us to talk freely anything. So I started the conversation. And the coach was only listening and sometimes clarify things with us. During the conversation, the coach asked my husband about disappointment and he said, it sounded like my husband is quite disappointed about me because it seems he has expectations which are not met. And somehow, he said it in a direct way. What he said he do to much for me which is also his fault and he admitted it and the more he's doing more for me, and he feels that he's not getting what he's doing for me. But we already talked about that, I once one time noticed that he's doing a lot for me and I told him he shouldn't. I appreciate his sweet acts but sometimes it's just too much for me although I wanted to do what we had plan together like going to school here etc.... And he himself noticed that and also said that he loves doing it for me, like for example researching books for me over the internet and later on he'll get more than 20 books and he'll give it to me. and he'll be surprised that I couldn't read those because before that, he just gave me some other books... and lately I find myself that I'm catching up with his pace and not with my pace. I realized that I have to adapt quickly, although sometimes there are things that I don't understand. And later on, when we go back to that particular topic, I have to ask him again because I forgot...and that made him impatient. Because he said he had the feeling that he was talking to a wall long time ago... and now I have to ask again...

It seems we were trying to recall everything how and why we were on the place of the coach... I told the coach that one reason is: that I have the feeling that we are not understanding with each other anymore. He became impatient and aggressive and harsh with his words towards to me, and I became sensitive, insecure, and always cry and lost, and trying to grasp why is he behaving like that...

He also said that the reason why is he talking to his friend was, because he can't talk to me anymore when I shut down myself and when I start not talking to him. Yes there are instances like this, but this was not the only reason. Because last year, even though we discussed it already that every things fine and which I assumed that it's already ok with him although I felt something strange because he's acting kind of weird, that was also the time when I heard him talking to his friend, "what is he going to do with me?" when he called his friend. I felt so hurt about it, because I thought every thing was ok,and we agreed to discussed things first with us and if he has issue with me he has to talked it with me. But when I heard it, they were talking about me for 1 hr, because I saw the log of times how long he called. Although I heard the first words he said, when called his friend, he tried to reason out that maybe I heard it in the middle of their conversation & I didn't understand what they were talking before that. I told him it was not in the middle of the conversation, it was the first words he asked when the friend answered his call.... I was so sad, because it seems he doesn't care how I feel,. and he lied about it...

Now he decided to go back again to the coach next week and he asked me if its ok for me. I also said yes. And the coach even suggested if I want to have a female coach he can recommend us. I said I'm fine if we have a male coach, at least I can also gather some points of view...

I have a question, do you think a coach can detect if one person is lying and not true with himself?

thanks











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Tatjana Offline OP
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Hi again

last time I found out, that the friend of my husband is a not really a good friend. He's pushing my husband to lie to me.
I've read some of their messages where his friend told him to ask me if he can go for guys weekend but he shouldn't tell me that they're going back to the same place where they went last year.

I'm so angry at the moment that my H agreed to his friend's idea. I'm just waiting now for the time he'll ask me about it.
Next week we'll be going back to the coach again and I'm not sure if I have to bring this out or not :-(

My heart is aching that my H is looking his friend as a good example. He also mentioned on our first visit with the coach that if I'll trust him, our relationship shouldn't have any problems. He always points out that he felt mistrusted by me. He said that he never felt trusted in this relationship. I did,,,but after what happened, it seems that it's very difficult to get that 100% trust again. How can I trust him back if I can prove now that they really did lie, like for example he told me that the reason that they were not able to go to that sailing race anymore was, because it started 6am. And last time his friend also told me that he was already on this event. But last time when we had discussions with my H, he told me that it was the first time of his friend to this sailing race event. I checked on the internet about the program of this event, and actually the race started by 9am and not 6am. And in the rules I've read the racer can bring people on the boat as long as he has to register it to the committee.

When they arrived from their holidays, his friend looked so surprised that they were not able to see the sailing race and it didn't work out the way he expected. Now it really seems to me that they plan their holidays not because of the sailing race but because of club-hopping and flirting with the prostitutes their :-(

Please help...I'm so angry now. Because this all confirms to all my questions why?...

Need some words from you guys. Please help





Last edited by Tatjana; 02/16/10 08:54 AM.
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Tatjana, I encourage you to hit "Notify" at the bottom of your post and ask the mods to move your thread to "Surviving An Affair" I think you'll get more relevant advice there from folks who have been where you've been. I know it is hard to open your eyes to what you're seeing now, but at least now you're not wondering why things didn't make sense. Now you have the information that you need to make informed choices.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Tatjana Offline OP
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hi again, I was asked by someone to hit Notify and change the thread to surviving an affair. I hope I'll gather more insights here.

Last week before we went to the coach, I and my husband had a very emotional talk. I thought every thing seems to be ok but still I can feel that there is something which is not right. Since last year, I have been seeing some messages he wrote to his male friend. And sometimes it's hurtful because some of them are hurtful and I've been hearing some of their conversations, which my husband denied when I asked him one time. We had our first meeting with the coach 3 weeks ago and last week was our second meeting.
The last time I read some of his messages that they are planning to go back to the same place again in summer if it works. His friend found some cheap flights and even told my husband to ask me if he can go for a guys-weekend but he shouldn't tell me where. So that they can go again together. My husband reaction was, he found it a cool idea.

My heart broke down when I know this, but my husband is keeping it from me. I also know that they are communicating through emails. But he don't usually say it to me. But last week, I don't know what happen, I happened to pass by on his workplace and had a glance on his PC unintentionally, unlucky him because he kept his PC open with his email maximize. I saw the name of his friend on his email but I didn't react. After I saw it, my husband hide the email of his friend and he opened another window to cover it. I can't really take it. At first I wanted to keep it again and just let it be. But this doesn't help anymore. I asked him right away, why he needs to keep the email of his friend if they are not hiding or planning or something. He was kind of nervous, because we knew that we will have a discussion again. He just told me at first that he was checking another mail. But after a while, he asked sorry and told me that he was afraid that we have to discuss it again about his friend and his holidays plans. He told me if I want we can show it to the coach. He printed the mail, but he was kind of angry because he said he's not also reading my emails and why I always have to invade his kind of privacy. He asked sorry and I said I don't know what to say anymore because I'm so angry and this kind of behaviour has been on-going right after his holidays.

That night we had a talk and I asked him what's going on. I told him if he's not happy anymore he can say so. He also told me that last year, he was already on the verge of divorcing me. Only little percent left and he was about to do that. I was so hurt when I heard that because, that answers all my questions why he was acting that strange and weird to me. I know we had so many discussions but I was left hanging with all of those questions. And what I didn't understand is, why he didn't tell it to me right away. Instead he went for his friend and even boasting most of the time that their holidays were very great and he never felt that way before. I was kind of lost... He told me that I was always busy, and was unreasonable. He also didn't imagine, that the reason that I might busy is because I was having a hard time to look for job on his country where language is very difficult. Reasonable?... maybe because I got a lot of rejections from all of my applications, because I know my husband is also quite stress that I don't have a job yet. I think he didn't understand how I also feel on his country where every thing is so new to me. I'm also struggling to cope everything on his country. And it seems he didn't see it. We had a very heavy discussions. And for me it was an answer why we're not connected anymore and things are always a confusion to me.

Now I don't know what to do? Our coach told us, as much as possible we have to avoid this for the meantime to discuss just the two of us because it will not bring any good to us. After that talk that night, I was so sad and very hurt and wanted not to see anymore and wanted to run away. Because I know now the reasons why he was so strange and his feelings are so cold to me. Even he tried to make me happy the feelings are not real anymore, it's because he wanted to divorce me last year. And sometimes I can feel that he doesn't love me anymore even though he kept on telling me.

Now I'm so lost. The coach mentioned first we could take a time-out but he will not recommend it because he sees if we will take a time out there is no possibility that we will go back together. I actually will go for a time out if the coach recommended it because I was also tired with all of these confusions and figuring things out what's wrong. My husband kept on telling me that I have to say what I feel and what I think so that I'll not kept all of those. But I noticed he wants me to say it then he will judge me and if he doesn't find it good, he will keep it for himself and he will tell it to his friend.

I'm so confused now and don't know what to do?... I would appreciate your advices...

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Tatjana Offline OP
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Hi again

I'm wondering why I can't edit my post anymore. Whom shall I contact about this?

Please help me I need some advice.

Thanks.


Last edited by Tatjana; 02/25/10 06:49 AM.
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I think there is a time limit.

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