I am lost and confused. I am now in my deployment location and I am going nuts!!!!
I really want to call the W and let her know I want to forget everything and move forward. But I need to know that she will be loyal to me and not contact OM. Is this a bad move? I just don't know if I can sit here and wonder if she is going out and flirting with guys. I don't want her going to the clubs and drinking. Am I wrong for this? I just need to know that if I am here working on forgiving her she isn't screwing around. I can forgive her and I do love her!! Should I call and tell her what I feel or wait and see how it goes while I'm away? I just don't know!!! please help.

CD:

I think you were right in interpreting the holding and the "I will try" as positive signs.

Remember, you can't control her, and if you try it will likely backfire on you. Just be loving, as much as you can from where you are. I would definitely call her if you want 2 talk 2 her. I bet if you're positive and loving, she'll appreciate it. I would not demand she stop contact with OM at this point, that might backfire 2. I would just focus on YOU and HER as a M couple. Let HER realize that what she wants is YOU, don't TELL her what she should or shouldn't want or do. I know this is very hard, it certainly was for me, but "letting go" of the OM problem has been the most useful thing for me. I still don't have a NC promise from her. The latest thing she's said 2 me, a few weeks ago, was "I will try", just like your W said 2 you.

The drinking at club scenes is NOT very rewarding, is it!? I still like 2 drink with friends, but I won't go anywhere with single friends if they're out trolling for chicks. That doesn't interest me. My W and our M does.

OK, how can you go to bed at night and be able to sleep with thoughts of your W cheating on you? How can she be so selfish that any reguards to me or our girls can be pushed aside for something she is unsure of? She replied to my email finally and this is what she said.
"about the other thing yes you are right i am feeling very confused maybe deep inside I know he is not the right thing for me but I feel so loved and acepted I don't even know how to explaine it, I really have not felt like that in my life time so I wonder if i should give it a try?"
How can she want to try something with someone she hardly know when I am here showing her love and acceptance? She did go on to say
"but at the same time deep in my mind I feel like maybe is not the right thing and it won't be on the long run, but I don't know what is good anymore! anyway it is all confusing today!"
How can I help her understand I am here for her and want to make her happy? I want so much to see her happy again. She is just looking in the wrong places. She was so head over hill over the baseball player, now its some other guy. What the h3ll is going on? Its not like she has built up this friend ship that has turned to love...
Help!!

CD,
When a WS finds themselves involved in a full blown A they become profesional liars. The whole relationship is based on lies. After what you have said about her wanting to go out late at night with friends that you have never met and then going out for a drive in the middle of the night because she cant sleep.... more lies.
This is what my wife was like when she was in that ugly place. It wasn't until the A was exposed to the light that the fantasy dream of theirs became a living nightmare for the both of them.
If I were you, I would hire a P.I. and find out just who she is involved with. If he is married I would contact him emediatly and tell him that you are about to tell his wife. If he is not married I would still contact him and let him know that you are fully aware of what he is doing and that he now has you to deal with.
This is basicly what I did and it scared the h3ll out of him. I then told my wife that I could not live like this any longer and will not stand for it. I also told her that the OM could go near my kids over my dead body. I told her that I would fight for coustody. This shocked her and forced her to wake up and really see what she was doing and possably loosing.
There has to come a time when you say "enough is enough" you can not be a doormat forever. Life is too short.
Hopfuly she will see what she is doing and run from this mess she has put herself in and never look back.
For my wife it took a rude awakining for her to wake up.
Good luck and please pray that God will heal your family. I will be praying for you as well.

Stillhurts

<small>[ October 22, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: stillhurts ]</small>

CD,
You are asking a lot of good questions, but many times there are no good answers. I will attempt a few of them.

You are asking why? Why would she do this. We don't know in every case what tilts them towards having an A but we do know that once there, it is an addiction. It is chemical as well as emotional. I have seen studies referenced ( here on old threads) about it and it is real. If you want to help her, you have to have a plan and just run the plan no matter what she is doing. Imagine for a minute that she is an alcoholic, how you react to that? They always think they don't have a problem, when pointed out to them, they say they used to have a problem, but don't any longer. If they finally do realize what is going on, many times they seem powerless to stop it. That is what is going on here, that is why just pointing out the problem does not work, addicts don't respond to logic very well.

That is why we suggest you decide what you want to do, and do it. If you want to try and save it, plan A. If you want to get out, that is also your choice. When you run the plan, you don't look at what she is doing from day to day or week to week and react to it, you run the plan and you do it every day until you can't go on any longer ( love bank is gone) You judge how the plan is working by how well you do what you plan to do, now by what she says. Long term it often works, short term you will still have a very bad time with what she is doing. DR Harley has taken a universal principal (people like us more if we are nice to them) and made it into a program to save marriages. I don't know of a better way to work on it.

I know it is hard, and I feel for you, I hope you can make this work for all of you. Don't give up hope while you are gone. Write her often and express your feelings( positive ones) Don't make demands, or be negative or sad all the time. When affairs take place, the OP makes the WS feel good. You need to do that too. Be upbeat, happy, make her laugh. Draw her to you like a magnet does steel.

There are people out here that care about you, I for one am praying for you. don't give up hope.

SS

<small>[ October 23, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

CD,
Im a WS and had a big EA with OM. I have been in recovery for a few years now and we are doing good. I'm just getting into this story so if I can help, please let me know. How are you doing today? Have you heard from her anymore?

I know if you are on deployment your access may be limited and that is okay so just write when you can. I hope I can help you. All the feelings you feel are totally justified but you have to work through this and you have to take care of you in the meantime or you will get rundown and sick and that will make matters worse for you.

Please let me know if I can help. You are not alone
Zoey

<small>[ October 23, 2002, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Zoey ]</small>

CD:

"She replied to my email finally and this is what she said.
"about the other thing yes you are right i am feeling very confused maybe deep inside I know he is not the right thing for me but I feel so loved and acepted I don't even know how to explaine it, I really have not felt like that in my life time so I wonder if i should give it a try?"
How can she want to try something with someone she hardly know when I am here showing her love and acceptance?"

This is the part where I have the biggest trouble implementing a "pure" MB plan. Even in her fog, my W is an intelligent, thoughtful, and caring person. She had the cakewalking down 2 a T... ...then I found out about the A. She's said exactly what your W just said, and as recently as this am! How did I deal with that? Well, first thing I did was thank my lucky stars that I had an OPPOR2NITY 2 do anything at all about it. You see, if I were in a plan B mode, advised by a number of friends here, I wouldn't even be communicating with her, and we ALWAYS have made the most progress when we're communicating!

The other thing is that, if I were in plan B, I'd probably be sitting smug as a bug in a rug in the "knowledge" that I was right and she was behaving badly, and she had 2 pull her head out of her nether regions and do what *I* needed her 2 do (the right thing, right?) before we could put our M back 2gether. But the truth is that there's plenty wrong with my behavior over the last 12 years, or she wouldn't have felt the need for an A. How was I going 2 learn about those if I didn't get feedback from her (aka CONVERSATION). Answer: I wasn't. But now I am, in a big way. And we're talking openly about our feelings (hers and mine!), and I'm listening (finally) and she's listening (and hearing what's inside ME, finally). Will we make it? I think so. Will you? If you try. Try 2 understand what it is she thinks she needs that you're no longer providing (or never did?) and ask her how you can fill those needs for her. And remember (but don't rub this in) SHE is the mother of your children, but that means YOU are the father of hers, and nobody can fill either of those roles but the original cast!

"She did go on to say
"but at the same time deep in my mind I feel like maybe is not the right thing and it won't be on the long run, but I don't know what is good anymore! anyway it is all confusing today!"
How can I help her understand I am here for her and want to make her happy? I want so much to see her happy again."

By showing her that you are there for her. Try 2 understand why she's feeling the things she's feeling, however nonsensical they may seem 2 you. You might stumble on a grain of insight that you can BOTH learn from.

"She is just looking in the wrong places. She was so head over hill over the baseball player, now its some other guy."

Absolutely, but DON'T remind HER of this. It would be a LB. You can only hope that she'll learn on her own and that you can be there 2 be understanding of her confusion and ready 2 catch her if she falls. That's what I'd do, anyway.

"What the h3ll is going on? Its not like she has built up this friend ship that has turned to love...
Help!! "

Again, don't try 2 "make sense" of any of this. You can't, and neither can she. But don't forget the part about you and her being the only parents 2 your kids. That's your strong tie. Your foundation. Does she cease being a person deserving 2 be happy and loved because of what she's doing? h3ll no!

Stillhurts:

"When a WS finds themselves involved in a full blown A they become profesional liars. The whole relationship is based on lies. After what you have said about her wanting to go out late at night with friends that you have never met and then going out for a drive in the middle of the night because she cant sleep.... more lies."

Perhaps. So what? This isn't anything that CD (or any of us) don't know now. Sue the firm?

"This is what my wife was like when she was in that ugly place. It wasn't until the A was exposed to the light that the fantasy dream of theirs became a living nightmare for the both of them."

I can only speculate about what happened in my W's and her OM's case. I think it was a nightmare for them. But did it end? No. Still hasn't, ac2ally. They're still talking 2 each other about work. But I learned a lot in a convo with my W this am. He's trying 2 reconcile with his W, who threw him out on her d-day in May. And still they're having a hard time breaking contact. But my W's getting there. I can feel it! And I intend 2 help her, not push her.

"If I were you, I would hire a P.I. and find out just who she is involved with."

If CD doesn't know, he should ask her first. Even then, does he need 2 increase his paranoia by having her tailed?

"If he is married I would contact him emediatly and tell him that you are about to tell his wife. If he is not married I would still contact him and let him know that you are fully aware of what he is doing and that he now has you to deal with."

This is risky, as many on this 4um will tell you. It could just as easily backfire on you.

"This is basicly what I did and it scared the h3ll out of him. I then told my wife that I could not live like this any longer and will not stand for it. I also told her that the OM could go near my kids over my dead body. I told her that I would fight for coustody. This shocked her and forced her to wake up and really see what she was doing and possably loosing."

And how is your M now? Is your W staying with you out of fear? Or does she love you? I prefer letting my W make her own decisions, including leaving me if that's her choice.

"There has to come a time when you say "enough is enough" you can not be a doormat forever. Life is too short."

Geologically, life IS short. But it does go on. Being a doormat isn't a solution for anybody, but a good plan A isn't being a doormat.

"Hopfuly she will see what she is doing and run from this mess she has put herself in and never look back."

YES!

"For my wife it took a rude awakining for her to wake up."

My W is waking up with me right there loving her all the way. This is HER life, so I'm letting her make HER choices. She already knows what my choices will be if hers are hurtful.

2long,
You make very good arguments and I must agree with most of what you have said. I just sence that CD has been in plan A for a long time now and getting no where. All I could think of when I replyed was what I went through and how it played out. It was just me thinking out loud as I did say "If I where you..." This was only my honest opinion and I am the first to admit that I am not by any means a trained counsler.
For the record, my wife and I and my children are happier now than ever before and I praise God for it all. Mabey it all has to do with the fact that my wife and I both turned to God and laid it all at His feet. When they brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus and he said let he that is without sin cast the first stone, this made perfect sence to me and I told my wife that I would never hold this against her. I have kept that promese and she in turn followed Jesus's advise... "Go and sin no more".
Recovery was hard but we kept moveing forward and yes, I am happy to say that we are very happy and she is by no means still married out of fear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
God Bless
Stillhurts

<small>[ October 23, 2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: stillhurts ]</small>

CD: My prayers are with you. Hang in there. If you believe in prayer, try it now; you will be surprised. The good news is that she wants to work on it and may just need time to find the right path. I am dealing with a very tough situation myself and have had many of the same feelings. I just have to keep reminding myself of what is the right thing to do. Try to do some reading each day for motivation and strength. This can be a tough time, but you will come through stronger and wiser in the end. Stay the course.

I have to go fly but wanted to say thanks for the replies. I will give an update when I get back
CD

CD yes please do. Praying for you. God Bless you

Zoey

Stillhurts:

Absolutely no offense meant and none taken! This life is an incredibly complex, delicate journey. I'm glad that things have turned out well for you. I believe that they can for CD as well. ...heck, I believe they will for me, 2!

Have a good flight, CD, and let us know how things are going when you can post again. Give this time and love, and everybody will win even2ally.

Well, I hope they work out for me...
I called the W just before I flew with an upbeat additude. Letting her know I miss and love her. She was quiet for a minute then asked what I was doing. When I asked what she meant she replied that we have all these problems and I am acting as if everything was fine. Sounded alittle upset that I was being upbeat, But I just let her know that I know we have issues but I wanted her to know I still loved her and miss her. I asked if that was bad, she replied "NO" but it confuses her. I asked what she meant but she withdrew and said it didn`t matter. I am trying to call her everyday and let her know I love her along with an upbeat email. I did ask if she was communicating with OM, she asked if we had to talk about it. Maybe I should have left it at that but I told her I thought I was intitled to know atleast that. She said she hadn`t been, but I don`t know if I believe it or not. Should I just not ask anymore? I want to know but don`t want to LB on her. Thanks for the encouragement.
CD

Hi CD,

First I want to say how sorry I am you're going thru this. You don't deserve this and I know how devistating this is.

And to answer your question regarding "talking about or asking about OM with your wife", the answer is NO. You should avoid all talks regarding OM, unless your wife initiates them. You should do your best not to talk about your relationship either, unless your wife initiates it.

You see, those two subjects are volatile right now, and from reading your posts, sounds like they are considered LBs to your wife.

I know this is asking alot, believe me. But you need to concentrate on YOU right now, and put all the OM and relationship talk on the back burner.

Have you read the site literature about Plan A, LBs and ENs yet?

Jo

<small>[ October 26, 2002, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

OK, so I shouldn't talk about them or us. Great, I guess I will just sit here in the dark!!! Sorry if I sound upset. I know your probably right, I am just having a hard time today. I tried to call yesterday and couldn't get a hold of anyone. I have only recieved one email in the two weeks I have been here. It is hard. As I sat in church today it seemed like they talked about everything that is wrong in my life. How will I last another month away??? We have so many restrictions we can't do a lot. So most of the time I am board stiff, with lots of time to ponder on the thoughtless act of my thoughtless W! I just want to cry to her and let her know how much oain she is causeing me. It wouldn't be so bad if she would just talk to me and show a little remorse. I hate this!!!!
I hope somebody out there is having a positive turn in there relationship. Good luck to you all.
CD

I just got off the phone with W. She was so Cold and hard. I aske dhow she was and how things were, all I got out of her was "fine". I asked if she didn't want to talk, she said she did once and will never do it again. I just want to be there if she needs someone to talk to. She said she made a mistake and didn't want to live with it, I told her thats fine. I was a mistake and it is in the past, we don't need to dwell on it. She said "why don't you just leave me". It hurts <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . Why does she want me to leave her? Why hasn't she just done it herself?
I am so confused right now!!!! I don't know how much longer I can do this!!!
\CD

Hi CD,

Please know we know how hard this is. It's horrible and devistating. Steve Harley equates it to worse than a death of a spouse.

I'm just truly sorry you're going thru this.

Try to concentrate on you, on keeping yourself busy with things you like to do. And mostly taking care of yourself during this time. An A takes it's toll on our health and welfare in almost every way. Believe me, eventually this whole thing will end one way or another, and you need to remain healthy thru the course of it.

Have you explored the idea of anti-deps? I was recommended them, and they drug me kicking and screaming to the doctors to do it. But, I am so glad I did it. It made a world of difference. They don't numb you or anything, they just help you manage through the really hard emotional stuff.

Please take care of yourself, please.

Love,
Jo

CD:

"I just got off the phone with W. She was so Cold and hard. I aske dhow she was and how things were, all I got out of her was "fine"."

Then go with that! Don't press her 2 be specific. Give her time.

"I asked if she didn't want to talk, she said she did once and will never do it again."

Try not 2 take this personally. It's fog talk. But don't react 2 it either.

"I just want to be there if she needs someone to talk to."

And this is the one thing that she will truly appreciate at the end of all this, CD. I know it sounds impossible, but this will end someday.

"She said she made a mistake and didn't want to live with it, I told her thats fine. I was a mistake and it is in the past, we don't need to dwell on it. She said "why don't you just leave me". It hurts . Why does she want me to leave her? Why hasn't she just done it herself?"

She says she wonders why you haven't left because if you DID, it would help her avoid her feelings of guilt. Don't remind her of this, it will be a LB. Just chalk it up and keep going. And she hasn't left YOU because she doesn't WANT to. Keep this in mind, 2. It will help a little!

"I am so confused right now!!!! I don't know how much longer I can do this!!!"

I am confident that you CAN and WILL survive this, CD. Please remember that we care what's happenning!

I don't know where I stand any more. If I don't call her I would never talk to her. I send email everyday but never recieve in return. Wondering if I should stop for awhile just to see if she even notices.
CD

Hi CD,

I have been reading your posts but have not "jumped in". I am just getting back into this. I had a different login back then. I too am a BS. My wife took a year and a half to start coming around out of the fog, guilt, remorse, etc. I posted here a couple of years ago and am hoping to help as much as I can. I was given some great advice from some "old timers" and hope to give back. Mine(marriage) so far is also a "success".

Youv'e been getting some great advice from lots of folks. One thing I sense is your readiness to jump out of your skin and rush, hold, kiss, be intimate, etc. and you can't do that. I learned the hard way doing this. Take time and relax. I know I felt that sense of urgency that I couldn't hold back, I wanted it fixed right then, why couldn't she see what I was trying to do and so on. Relax and make out a game plan! Don't rush! I had to step back and realize that I could not make things go faster without taking time for myself first. Someone told me once that "smothering her makes her look to you as being weak".

There is nothing wrong with your thoughts and feelings, just vent them here - not to her. I tried everything, believe me. I noticed changes only after I felt like I was at my wits end and ready to Plan B. I felt it how you described wanting to hold her and being told no. It hurts, I think you admirably said I respect your feelings and that it was ok. She is going through a rough time also.

Her being confused is great! She is starting to see that she is wrong and what she has. It's how you approach this is whether you come up with deposits or LB's. How do you want to approach this? LB and push her back into him or Plan A and slowly reel your wife back in? I wouldn't demand that she not speak with him again. It sounds like she is coming to this herself.

Take a break a couple of days from emailing her. It may be overwhelming for her getting one every day. Save it for her. Remember that relationships love a bit of mystery. Save some info of how you are and how your day is going. Also, keep your self busy. Volunteer doing what you can. Start a hobby that makes you think of what you are doing instead of her. I liked modeling and drawing. How old are your children?

Well, enough for now. Let me know. Good luck and prayer always helps!