My world just fell apart - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I just came home from hunting. I didn't hunt just went with my friends because the W wants time apart. When I came home my wife told me she had been reading MB. Then she asked if she had more than one affair, would I still want to be with her? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> She had sex with two others! One was more or less forced! the other with a guy who is a "friend"! I want to DIE! I mean really just be taken out of this world! If it wouldn't cause my kids and my wife more pain I would just disappear. I really don't know how I can deal with this? I know their are many out their who have it worse than I do, but I just don't know how to right now. She asked what I wanted to do, and I don't know! I love her but how can I deal with want she has done? I hate her right now, real HATE! How can I make the hurt stop? If I get put on meds I could loose my job. I hate myself! I don't know why, I hate life!!!!!

CD,

Your world just took a nosedive but it is not the end of it all. Breathe.....your W appears to be reaching out for help and you both need it right now.

Can you make it until tomorrow? You must be in shock. Go back and read the basic concepts section. Tell your W you need some time to compose yourself and then go back and see where she is at (emotionally).

Get in contact with a good MC or IC immediately. Place a call to STeve or Jennifer ASAP if you can.

You need support right now. Is there someone you can talk with?

L.

Citydweller - You know I know how you feel but the one good thing that you have going for you is that she cared enough to tell you the truth - that is a huge step as far as I am concerned... I also don't understand if you are put on medication that you can loose your job - that is crap - I mean like discrimination - I know after I found out I walked around from October to March crying to anyone who came within 2 ft of me - I think you should talk to your employer and let them know the situation - or you know what better yet how would they know - I have been on Zoloft since March and I feel fine on it - I don't believe it effects my day to day stuff at all - if anything it holds me togther - Are you seeing a counselor - you should go right away - maybe you two should go together - if you are both willing to work it out then you must get through it together - good luck...

I don't know if I can make it till tomarrow. don't know if I even see tomorrow! sHE CARED ENOUGH to tell me but didn't care enough to stop %^$%$#%$*&^%@##@@#@#E%$##$ around!
Why to I even care?

CD, I know you are devastated and you have every right to be. Once you get over the initial shock, though, you will see how fortunate you are that she told you the truth. At least now you KNOW what and WHO you are living with. Without that knowledge, you were in the dark about your own life. I know it seems to ridiculous to see ANYTHING positive about this right now but I promise you it will get better. Hang in there and God Bless.

How can someone screw 3 other people and say that "i don't want to hurt you"? What the He** was she thinking at the time? I can't do this!

does rum help? or does it just make you more willing to speak what you feel? How could she do this? Or maybe she just can't keep her legs closed? Am I a looser for not keeping my W hapopy?

CD,

Run will taste good but dull the senses. Is that what you want? Long term? Will you be functional in the morning??

Listen pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. As hard as this is, morning will come and you will be able to deal with this in the right light.

Are you going to work? Can you work? Go visit the doctor and a counselor ASAP. Get yourself and your W some support.

You have it better than most. Do you realize that?

take care,

L.

Citydweller--

Hey! We have all felt this way, the way that you do right now. It hurts like crazy. It feels like you want to go to sleep and never wake up--but you can't sleep. And you can't eat. And you can't think about anything else.

But guess what--a lot of us have survived and overcome this feeling and it does pass in time.

Guess what--you are actually lucky! Your wife came clean with you. She was honest with you. That means she does care about you. You know how many of us pray our hearts out for that to happen? I would say the majority on this forum.

My husband had an affair with an older married woman--after tormenting me for years out of jealousy because he was afraid that I would cheat on him. It cost me my career. I spent two years in agony trying to figure out what the heck was going on with him, only to find out in a horrible way: I discovered very graphic chat files saved on his computer. Over a year's worth of dialogue. I read blow-by-blow (no pun intended) recounts of their digusting sex acts. And the hateful names they called me behind my back. And their schemes to leave us, their spouses, while getting custody of their kids (hers and mine.) Can you believe that? And all that while, I had no idea.

My husband never has come fully clean with me. Even with evidence in hand, he still tries to lie. As I catch him in each lie, he simply resorts to blaming me in outlandish ways. He has never fully confessed. He has never expressed regret in a way that would put my soul at ease. (He is only sorry that he was caught--that's the way I take it.)

I am still with him, believe it or not. For many reasons. It's an on-going and up-hill process to heal for both of us.

So, two years ago, I felt like you do now.

Please don't get all drunk and crazy. It might temporarily dull your pain, but in the end, it will solve nothing and only serve to make matters worse.

If you freak out--you will be teaching your wife that when she is honest with you, she will be punished for her honesty. She may never be truthful with you again. Is that what you want?

OK--she had sex with some other men. What does that mean to you?

You need to not be drunk. You need to sit down and ponder some ideas real hard:

Does her infidelity mean that at some point, she was lonely because you were not providing her with attention, affection? (Hate to say it, earning a paycheck and just coming home every night is not what makes a woman feel in love with a man--and that's what most men feel cuts it as far as their responsibility in a relationship.) Do you share some blame in her infidelity?

Does her infidelity mean that she, being young, inexperienced, and immature was tempted to venture something that she had never tried? Go places she had never been? Yeah, I know. Three different men. Well, guilt sometimes causes a chain reaction. Maybe it was just a mistake. Do you love her enough to forgive a mistake?

Does her infidelity mean that she may have serious personality or psycological issues? That's the case for some of us here. Some of us are married to grown-up spoiled brats that must be placated. Some are married to people that have endured terrible trauma (like sexual abuse) and are seeking comfort. Ect. Would going to a marriage counselor be an option for you to try to discover any deeper issues that your wife might have? Or any issues that she has with YOU? Don't say no--unless you don't want her back, period.

And you might think that you don't, at first. But, after a while, the feelings of love that you have for her will slowly surpass that hurt and rage that you feel. Don't supress them, at least for your kids sake. Give it a chance and see.

Read Surviving an Affair. Even after two years, I have reread it. It really helps to know what your spouse may be thinking. And to know that you are not alone in this--other people have felt like you do.

If I were you, I would count myself fortunate that your wife has been upfront with you about this. Don't destroy that trust she has in you by reacting horribly to her secret.

citydweller ,

I'm hoping that this will give you a bit of hope for your situation. When I first found out about my H affair, I too wanted to die. I just wanted to close my eyes and go away.
I couldn't eat and I couldn't sleep. I had panik attacks and thought that I had lost "my world".
I felt like an absolute fool and I lost trust in everything and everyone, even myself. I didn't know what to think and I thought that my complete way of thinking was wrong.
I believed that everything I had lived for and everything I had believed about life was a lie.

I wasn't prowd of myself and for my way of thinking, I thought I was just a fool and fools are just treated like fools. (hope that made sence)

I drank alot and I smoked like crazy and I cryed like never before in my life. Many times I ran out of the house, jumped into the car and thought I'd just "end life".
I couldn't and "deep" inside of me, I really didn't want to.

It took weeks until I was able to calm down. I was able to see things clearer and I was able to believe in myself again.
After one year I found Marriage Builders, this was my greatest help. Even though I must admit, I was doing a good job up till then.

When I read the things in MB, it all made sence. When I understood how this could of happened, I was able to take steps forward.
My H and I were able to communicate much better and we both made steps forwards.
This all took time, lots of time. And it took patience from "both" sides.

We knew fairly soon after d-d that we wanted to make our marriage work. This was the most important part. Even though I did have many "break downs" my H knew what he wanted and he went through all of this together with me.

I was able to let my "emotions" come and go, no matter how hard it was and my H was always there for me.
It was a terrible time of my life and yet it gave us the opputunity to grew together again.

I found out things about myself that I was never aware of and today I am the happiest woman ever. I'm gratefull that I didn't give up and I'm happy that I am alive. I would of missed out on so much. I wouldn't of known what can become possible.

Altogether I would say, my H and I are so grateful that we went through all of this, even though it was the worse part of our life. We made it and therefore I know it is possible.

If you would of told me this on d-d, I would of said:you're crazy!!!

Please don't give up. Communicate with your wife and read all you can. It will honestly get better and it can become better than you would of ever of dreamt of!!!!
My H and I are "living" examples.

Let me give you a "pat" on the back and let me tell you, we are all here for you, to help you. We all know what you are going through. Let us help you and trust. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

hugs
bb

CD
Yes many many of us here at MB have walked in your shoes, and they are not a comfortable fit. All the posts so far are right on
1) Your wife told you - admitting to an A is a good step toward healing and many of us are still dealing with lies.
2) Read "Surviving An Affair" by W. Harley. This can be purchased in the bookstore at this site, on Amazon.com, or in local bookstores. It is an invaluable tool in learning how to interact with your wife during this time
3) Can you take a day off from work, to just cool down? Maybe call in sick?
4) Acknowledge to your wife you both need to talk about this, but in the heat of the moment (now) may not be the best time. YOU want to be rational enough to HEAR what she says. SHE needs you to be rational enough to SAY how you feel. I would recommend putting some space between you both for a few days. Just to give yourself time to get your thoughts in order and to calm down. And maybe time enough to do some reading and refresh your knowledge from the basic concepts on this site.

Hang in there...you WILL get through this but it won't happen overnight. There are plenty of caring people here who will stand with you throughout the coming months.

Praying for ya!

CD -
I know just how you feel! I sometimes start screaming and beating on the walls and calling my no-good, lowdown, scumbag WH every name in the book. That's in between crying and being depressed and sometimes feeling okay. And just when I think I'm getting better (I've been going thru this now for 3-1/2 months), it hits me again right between the eyes.

Wine helped me. Not a lot, just a glass. Took some of the edge off, and helped me sleep. At first it worried me as I've never been a drinker, but after about a month, I didn't need it anymore any way. So if a rum and coke helps, I say go for it. Can't be any worse than meds.

Talking to people helped too - and still does. Before this I'd always bottled up my feelings, stayed strong, didn't let other people know when I had problems. For some reason when I found out WH had an A, I let down my guard and took people into my confidence. And you know what? People are really GREAT! They want to help!! Of course you have to be judicious about who you tell. But the more I talked, the better I felt. Whenever a new revelation hits - finding out WH has spent over $10K on this sl*t, for example - I find myself sliding back into depression and then I start calling in reinforcements to help me. I'll go thru my friends one by one, telling them the story, just to get it out and let myself cry and get some advice and support.

And then I read everything I can on MB. I'm really working on this, on me, on trying to understand what happened and at least fix myself if not my M. Doing something positive, putting a plan in place, thinking up a strategy for dealing with this - that really helps me.

At some point I found I could start pitying WH and even laughing at him. Here's this poor middle-aged guy trying to act like a kid again. Working on his tan, going to a stylist instead of a barber, buying new clothes. Takes up with some 20-something bimbo to make him feel like a man. Spends money on her like there's no tomorrow 'cause otherwise she'd be on her way to the next sucker. Doesn't even have the sense to wear a condom, for crying out loud. Gets an STD, and passes it on to me. Falls for her latest line, that she's pregnant and the kid is his. Has her move in with him and starts supporting her and her whole family, just to show what a big-shot he is. How pathetic! But you know what? Thinking about him like this really eases my pain. I can feel sorry for the big lug, realize he's acting like some lovesick teenager, and sit back feeling pretty smug and superior. It really helps my attitude sometimes.

Don't do anything too hastily, guy. Wait till tomorrow before you throw her out or leave or say anything you'll regret. Think things through.

I'll wish you the best.

there's always a silver lining in every cloud... I think the good news is that your wife finally opened up and tells you this. That could be a new start.

CD,

I'm so sorry about what has happened. I'm in no position to give advice so I'll tell you what has been working for me.

The first thing I did was to search my heart for what I really wanted. In order to make a decision I concluded that I needed as much information as I could get. Reading Surviving an Affair made me realize that the sun was going to keep rising each morning. Subsequent books have helped too.

The next thing was to acquire a few basic tools that would help me begin my journey to stay married. Something simple and easy to remember.
Three little tools I quickly armed myself with were:

1.) Be Respectful. Sounds so simple but is quite difficult when rage is flowing through one's body. It made sense. This tool kept the lines of communication open. Sure I stumbled but it worked for me.

2.) No Angry Outbursts. This too was tough. I faultered. However, this too kept the lines of communication open. I felt that I had to know what she wanted also. Who can have a conversation within a screaming match?

3.) No Unreasonable Demands. I decided to set two very simple boundaries for myself..not for her but for me. First, we cannot stay or sleep together if she continues any contact. Second, we will not sleep together until we are tested for STD's. I told her about these two promises to myself and was committed to maintaining these boundaries regardless. I was prepared to enforce them.

CD, these tools really helped me. Everyone's circumstances are different. Speaking with a therapist was and continues to be a huge help. Getting professional help, reading books, and communicating have been a lifesaver.

The one thing I felt that I had to decide from day one what I really wanted and what was I willing to do for it.

Hang in there CD! Your wife loves you and you love your wife.

The ladies are right CD,you will survive this blow. I too was married to a woman that had had multiple A's behind my back, and even though my pain was great and almost unbearable at times, I did survive. My M did not survive though, but it wasn't just because of her A's but because of the emotional abuse towards me and our daughters,her drug abuse problems, and her chronic child neglect. I hope you don't have these issues at home that I had to contend when I was married to my XWW.

You may want to consider talking to your boss about your situation, without going into graphic detail of course, and request some time off. If he's a boss that understands that an emotionally healthy worker is an asset to the bottom line, he may very well grant you your request.

And remember that YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER CHOICE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, SHE IS. You are responsible though for contributing to the deterioration of your M which turned it into a breeding ground for her A.

If you want to remain married then it is to your benefit to avoid angry outbursts at her because the only thing you'll gain is more dishonesty from her because she'll feel punished for being honest with you.

Beleive me, you will get better.

CD,

I now that it seems that your life is over. I understand those feeling just like everyone that is on this site. Everyone has given you great advice and I agree with them all.

I felt and sometimes still feel like you do, but you DIDN'T MAKE YOUR WIFE DO ANYTHING. Your wife made a choice. My dad said something to me in the begining that has stayed with me to this day. He said that, "People that do things like this are not a worldly problem, but they are a spiritual problem." See people make choices by combining what is modelded to them by their parents and what is in there spirit. If someone has the spiritial maturity to make the right choice even though it might not be popular this world would be a better place. You will get past this. Believe me I know. It is a day to day struggle. Just look forward one day at a time. Just like learning to walk when you are young.

Indy

[ October 10, 2002, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]

CD,

There isn't anything that I or anyone else can say that will take away or ease your pain much. But I can tell you, this is the right place to be.

See, if you are like the rest of us you are going to have many many questions that most of the people around you will be unable to answer. You will find those answers here. You will find them from not only betrayed spouses like you and me, but you will also get invaluable insights from wayward spouses as well. The wayward spouses on this site are actually a godsend for us. Don't be affraid to ask questions of them when you reach that point.

My wife was also involved in multiple affairs. My D-Day(discovery day)was March 12th, 2001. I suffered the same as you are now. Felt the exact same way. Then felt it again with each new d-day. I cried, boy did I ever. And I came to this site. Several people took it upon themselves to be my shoulder to cry on. They allowed me to vent my anger to them. They stayed up many late nights and into the next day even, just calming me down. They called me at times when things were really bad. Basically they were my lifeline to sanity and to life even.

None of this likely means much to you right now. What may mean something is the fact that my wife and I are still together. Still married. And things are going great for the most part. Sure, we still have problems. But we are in recovery and working to save our marriage. And there are others on this site that have made it as well. Many others.

As others have said, how you feel is perfectly normal. It sucks, sucks big time. But I promise you, my friend, it does get better. Whether or not your marriage ends, it gets better. This site gives you the best chance possible to save your marriage. It also gets you to the point where if your marriage ends you will come through it in much better shape than if you had not found this site.

I have an email link posted at the bottom of every post I make to these boards. If you ever want to talk off the boards, feel free to email me.

Wishing the best for you today.

jd

Well it's morning and I am still here. GREAT, NOW WHAT?
I needed to know who and when but she was unwilling to give me this details. I want to ask her to stop any comunication with any of these guys, is that wrong? I know I am better off than many and it is a good sign that she told me, but Now I don't know what I want. How will I ever beable to be with her again with out thinking of what she did? I don't have to be back to work til next Tuesday, but with all the time to think just makes it harder. My chest is going to explode!
She went out last night to "make contacts for her web page" and called and said she was just going to stay because she was tired and it was a long drive.
Thanks for all the advise and I know it can work and that I will survive. But I just can't see that right now!

DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF. It was her choice to cheat. We all make mistakes but NOTHING justifies an affair, certainly not numerous ones. I am very sorry for your pain. You mentioned that medication could hurt your job, how is that?

With my H's affair, I would not have made it thru without medication. I took it for 6-7 mos and it really helped a lot. It's not a 'happy pill' or a cop out. It gets you to a place where you can function again, and work on yourself and your problems. Depression is a serious illness and should be treated. Anybody in your shoes would be sad.

I strongly suggest counseling and lots of reading. If she won't go with you, go alone. There is a good article at findarticles.com called 'Shattered Vows' I would ask her to read it. Also the book Torn Asunder is very good.

Good luck and keep posting

I don't blame myself, but I know I had a hand in it. Not meeting her needs, not knowing the signs that she must of put out. I can see one mistake, but to do it more than once, how could she do that?
I am in the military and an air crewmember. There are other reasons why meds could effect my job but don't want to get into it right now.

I just feel so empty inside, I don't have anyone to talk to. I do have an appointment with a C next Tuesday, but I made that before I knew about the other two. Now I really need to see the doc.
I have so much HATE inside and at the same moment love, pain, confusion, pain, anger, pain, and more pain. I was having a hard enough time at work dealing with the one I knew about, now how will I be able to function? My poor daughters, they must be suffering too and I can't even help them

city,
I'm really feeling with you. I know what pain you are going through but believe me, it does get better.

Take a deep breath and calm down. Now that your wife has opened up, you have the best chances to create a relationship based on honesty. There will be a time when you will look back and "smile". You will be happy again.
Sometimes we have to really fall "very deep" in order to climb up and make things better. Have trust in yourself, you can make it, even if you don't think so right now.
I know that the emotions are really hard to cope with, but we all have went through them and we are all here for you if you need help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

hugs
bb

Well, if you are in the military, there again, you are lucky. I know that this doesn't take the edge off your pain, but you have a vast amount of resources--FREE--to help you with this problem--without drugs to make you feel better.

Yes, I will give you the pat answer and say "Go to the chaplain" but believe it or not, the chaplain helped me A LOT--and he didn't cost me $150 an hour. You don't have to be a religious person, by any means, to use the chaplain's services. I visited a couple different chaplains of different religions and different branches of service and in some way, they all served me well.(Chaplain Moreno--US Navy--Okinawa--needs to be a saint someday. The man is an angel sent from God.)

You can go to ACS and covertly sneak some of those pamphlets everyone wants to read but don't want to be seen reading. I volunteer for ACS here in Korea. I love it. I read those pamphlets all the time and I have an excuse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> because I work there.

Shoot, things were so bad in my house that I actually went to Family Advocacy. They have a bad rap because that's usually the last resort before someone gets put into the brig or mental health. But we needed it, and they helped. Discretely. Offered some comfort and protection to my son and I when things were really ugly. You should be aware that they are there for you if you ever need it--for your kids. (Some people here at MB have horrible crisises like child abduction and stalking as a result of infidelity. If things like this ever happen to you, you know where to go.)

And yes, you can go to your command and discretely ask for some "time." Don't freak out at work. (I made that mistake--as I felt as if I had to keep it a secret, my husband is an officer, and I cried all the time at the drop of a hat over my husband's infidelity. They kinda have a thing about women in the military crying, you know.) Your chain of command doesn't want you to suffer, either. How well are you going to function at your job if you are stewing over such a terrible secret? It will take it's toll, believe me. Nobody, especially the people you work for, wants this terrible thing to come to a head. You don't want it to come so full-blown that you loose your clearance and/or flight status because you are a basket case.

Your command has probably seen this crisis before, unfortunately, the way things are in the military. I have seen it happen on almost a daily basis in my time as a soldier and as a dependant, all ranks, all situations. It is so sad, but unfortunately true. So don't feel like you have a disease because this has happened to you. Talk to somebody you work for!

Military lifestyle, for all the effort of all the family team building programs, doesn't exactly foster family relationships. The vast amounts of time apart, the emphasis on job and de-emphasis on spouse and family causes it. And this is going to sound harsh: the desensitizing the person in order to train and prepare him for battle, especially for men. How well can you tune in to the subtle emotional needs of your spouse when you have been taught to ignore pain and weakness? (Navy Seals for instance--I have known a couple, all going through divorce, incidently--have an 80% marriage failure rate. Rangers: We had a detachment of them in my battalion in Hawaii and lots--I'd even say most--of the young men I knew personally while I was there were either cheating or came home from the field to find their wives cheating.)

Infidelity in the ranks is the ugly secret monster that everybody involved in the military knows about but doesn't want to address. Why is it supposedly punishable by UCMJ if everyone turns their heads and looks the other way? (And then suffers for it?) I have long wanted to talk to some of my high-ranking ACS lady friends and ask them if they would help organize a forum to deal with infidelity crisis, and host a specialist (like one of the Harleys <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) to come speak. If they can spend kajillions of dollars on dumb stuff like tree-lighting ceremonies, why not?

Anyway, enough about that, back to your problem.

1) Calm down
2) Talk to your supervisor about some "time."
3) Talk to a chaplain. Please don't feel dumb doing this--it would be dumb to keep it inside.
4) Try to control the anger you have for your wife during these first days of discovery. She will be more likely to talk to you if you are not angry with her.
5) Remember this: Repentance for a sin starts with confession. Your wife confessed--OK partially--so that could mean that she really is sorry, just so fogged in that she doesn't know how to feel, what to think, what to say to you.
6) This does not mean the end of the marriage. But it could, if you reject her.

Did I help any?

Hi CD,

Sorry to hear about the multiple affairs... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I know the pain that you are feeling right now. You've gotten some great advice.

Don't make any hasty decisions right now. You can get through all of this.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Citydweller: I'm pretty new at this. Please listen to what the others are saying. They are really wonderful people. I can't give you much advice, but just wanted you to know I was following your story and am praying for you.

TORO

CD:

"When I came home my wife told me she had been reading MB."

This is GOOD. Offer 2 read and post 2gether!

"Then she asked if she had more than one affair, would I still want to be with her?"

How did she ask you? What I mean is, was she taunting you, or trying 2 figure out how much you loved her? I hope the latter, and it sounds like it from the way you said it. She loves you. You need time 2 determine whether you love her enough 2 forgive her for this so that you can stay 2gether.

"She had sex with two others! One was more or less forced!"

This sounds like RAPE. Do you know the circumstances? If it was rape and she doesn't describe it that way (like "more or less forced") she may be bottling up some serious psychological trauma with that description, or maybe she was threatened? This is serious stuff, CD. You need 2 help her with this.

"the other with a guy who is a "friend"! I want to DIE! I mean really just be taken out of this world! If it wouldn't cause my kids and my wife more pain I would just disappear. I really don't know how I can deal with this? I know their are many out their who have it worse than I do, but I just don't know how to right now."

Believe me, no situation is more serious than the one YOU are living through. I know these feelings. I have had them 2. So has my W, even now. Your W is probably feeling this way 2 some degree as well. Healing from this will take TIME, LOVE, and COUNSELING for both of you.

"She asked what I wanted to do, and I don't know! I love her but how can I deal with want she has done?"

You love her. That's the most important thing here.

"I hate her right now, real HATE!"

Try 2 remember that what you hate is what she did, not HER. If you truly hated HER, there'd be no reason 2 stay with her. If you hate the acts, then you and she can get past them and 2gether see that they don't happen again.

"How can I make the hurt stop? If I get put on meds I could loose my job."

You should speak 2 your military doctors about this. There probably are medications that are okay 2 take while flying. Stopping the hurt will take a long time. Most say at least a couple of years. It's been 9 months for me, and I still think about my W's A every day. We're getting "better" but I don't expect the pain 2 go away completely for a while. It gets easier 2 deal with after the first couple of months, though. Counseling helps a LOT, and should not be underrated. Find a good one, though.

"I hate myself! I don't know why, I hate life!!!!! "

Because you feel like a chump. I know I sure did. And it was worse because the contact continued, still does 2 a limited degree. But you are NOT responsible for the As. You share responsibility for the "decline" of your M with your W, but that's it.

We are here for you.

Hey CD;
Very sorry to hear about this situation. But know this; no matter how much pain, anger, hurt, & confusion you are feeling right now (and we know you are), it IS going to be OK.
I know you don't believe that right now, I didn't either a bit over a year ago.

Know, too, that what you are feeling is not unique to you; we have ALL felt exactly the same things. I know that when I first found out about my W, I felt like I was alone in the world, that nobody else could POSSIBLY feel what and how I was feeling...but then I found out that this was not true, and that those people who'd felt the saem were getting better, and were finding ways to deal with and resolve the situation.

So if nothing else; know that we are here, we support you, we feel for you, and that we will do the best we can to teach you, guide you, and help you through this.

Try to take it easy, read and learn as much as you can, and come her and vent to us. We'll help.

I asked her to cut off any communication with this guy she has been confiding in. Was I wrong for wanting that? She asked what she got out of it, I didn't know what to tell her. I told her that I didn't think it was right that she continued a relationship, even if it is just friends, with a guy she had an PA with. I also said it sounds like she is having an EA with him.
But she wouldn't agree to cut contact, just said I don't know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
How should I handle this? I think I will look for somewhere to stay until I deploy again. That will give her a couple more weeks alone to think.
I just don't know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You asked her to cut off contact with the three men she had sex with and especially the one person she is still in contact with and in an ongoing emotional affair at the least and she replies "what do I get out of it"?. She then tells you that she will not or dosent't know?
You have got to be kidding me. Think of all of the things she has been doing (the black magic ) and so forth.
She does not sound worthy of you in the least and she sounds extremely self centered and probably a cakewoman. From your previous posts it sounds like she is a total user and will probably continue in this pattern of behavior in the future. She will continue to bring you heartache.

It is good that you are seeking counseling. Hopefully it will help you understand why you are willing to accept so little in this marriage with this woman. From all of your previous messages it is doubtful that she will ever make you happy nor be respectful of you and your feelings. Hopefully counseling will make you emotionally stronger so you can realize you deserve to have someone in your life who you can love, trust and respect as a partner and a partner who can do the same for you. I wish you luck.

I have thought alot about weather or not she will ever be happy with me. Or if I will ever do anything right in her eyes. I know I have put up with a lot, but I also know she has gone through so much in the last 5 years. Enough to make anyone go off the deep end if they kept it all inside like she did.
I have been getting mixed advice on if I should move out or make her move out if she wants to seperate. I don't think I should have to if she is the one who screwed up and wants time. But If she leaves she won't get the full affect of what it will be like if I'm not here. Any thoughts?

I think it's up to you whether you want to move out or not. A lot of people here would say 'no, don't leave unless you want to lose her.' It is totally how you feel. You yourself know your own situation and the personality of your wife. A lot of people can advise you, but you have to do what you think is best for your own situation.

When it happened to me, I moved out. Very un-MB-like advise, but I think that people should pay for what they do, whether you love them or not. A person convicted of murder does not just say "Sorry. It won't happen again. What do you want me to do? I can't make him come back to life." and then go free. A person caught stealing cars does not say "Oh, silly me. It was just a prank. You can get another car someday." and go free. Right?

I moved out. D-day, the actual d-day, for me was when my husband was deployed. I e-mailed him in Australia and asked him to acknowledge what I had found on his computer. Over the next 2 1/2 months, his e-mail response fluxated between "I'm sorry I hurt you, but. . ." to "What the h*ll are you doing going through my stuff?!!" to "I don't love you anymore--get lost."

So I did get lost. Packed my stuff and went back to the states. (From Okinawa.) He was still gone to Australia. In fact, he had volunteered to extend his deployment to avoid coming back home.

I stayed in the states for nine months. Soon I got a good job, my own apartment, my kid was going to school and we were settled in quite comfortably. I pretty much had no intention of going back, even though deep down, I still loved my husband. I was waiting on him to file the divorce. That was one thing that I was not going to do--he made the mess, he was going to clean it up. Besides, I had no money to spare for a lawyer (I can't stand lawyers--wish I could make $120 an hour sittin on my butt.)

My husband threatened. He raged. He turned it around on me and vilified me (I took his kid, I ruined his reputation by leaving, I was costing him money, blah blah. Typical WS logic.)

Sometimes he would call and say "Can we talk?" Usually that was when he was drunk from a night out at the club. I know he was not sitting on his hands. He was out chasing girls. (Because I was such a mean woman, I left him all alone.)

I think that all this taught him to respect me, and that he did, in fact, love me. With me there, he took me for granted. Without me, there was a big void in his life that Jack Daniels and strange Asian women couldn't fill. It took a separation to learn that.

After nine months, I did go back. Two reasons, initially: 1) My son needed his father. 2) My daughter from my first marriage, a lovely girl with wisdom beyond her years, told me to give her stepdad a second chance.

There has been plenty of times that I cursed the day I ever made the decision to go back to him, especially the half dozen times or so last year that I caught him looking at pornography or in illicit chat rooms.

But it does progress to better places, if you give it a chance. It's not easy.

There are plenty of people who have made a good, sucessful recovery and have achieved happy marriages because they gave it the chance.

You will never know if you can achieve the same if you don't give it a chance.

Not saying that moving out will ruin your chances. It might better them, in fact, in the long run. But you need to do what you feel would benefit you the most.

If it would protect what's left of your love for your wife, and give her time to clear her head and make decisions, by all means. Move to a friend's house. Move to the barracks. Plan A her from a safe distance.

OK--I take it back about lawyers. I have been ripped off to the tune of thousands of dollars by lazy dudes that ask me the same dumb questions over and over again in order to "defend me." (To the tune of $120 an hour.)

CD,

Ok....I cannot just sit on my hands any longer. Listen to yourself.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I don't think I should have to if she is the one who screwed up and wants time. But If she leaves she won't get the full affect of what it will be like if I'm not here.<hr /></blockquote>You are going nowhere until YOU decide what YOU want. Please make a calm rational decision, think about your motivations, shed emotions from your decision making. It's hard but I know you can do it. All of us are capable of doing anything and that applies to both ends of the spectrum.

Punishing her get's you nowhere. Make a decision and resign yourself to the consequences. It's up to you. Get professional advise.

I'm praying for you both.

Bryanp:

Hor$e$h!t.

CD's sitch here, and what his W is doing is very little different from what most M's subjected 2 infidelity experience. It is highly unlikely, based on this fact, that CD's W will treat him with disrespect forever, or even want another A. She's in the fog now, and can't make the decision 2 cut contact for whatever reason. Doesn't mean that CD shouldn't or even can't expect it at some point, but it does mean that he has a lot 2 learn about how these things "work" and how 2 heal from them.

CD, you never did answer my question about your "more or less forced" comment in your original post. If it was rape, or even "more or less" so, it could be having a very detrimental effect on your W's self-image and her ability 2 heal.

You need 2 heal whether your M survives or not. You will find, as you work, that it's easier 2 do WITH your W, who is sharing these experiences with you after all and knows you, than it will be alone or with someone else. So hunker down, read until you can't see anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and KNOW that you will come out of this a much better man.

2long, I don't know if it was rape or not. I beleive it was in another contry when she was visiting. I think it was a big party and she eother doesn't know or doesn't want to admit she lost control and was taken advantage of.
I keep asking if she will cut comunication and all she can reply is "why should I cut off someone who cares about me and how I feel for someone who hasn't for 11 years".
Now she wants to go to colorado for the weekend and asked if I was Ok with that. I said I can't tell you what to do but I am not OK with it. CAN YOU BELIEVE SHE ASKED WHY? Am I controling her by telling her I don't want her to go? Am I showing her that what she wants isn't important?
I just don't know. I'm ready to just call it quits. She will use this against me some how.
I need to get am appointment with the Hs.

CD --
I'm military as well. My best advice to you: Take some leave, go see a counselor. It's free. There's no stigma and they can relate completely to your situation. You have no clue, my brother, but you are so NOT alone in your pain.

I thought I needed meds and finally went to a counselor. It took him about 30 seconds to calm me down. That was six weeks ago. I'm much better now and we have our marriage on a seemingly straight course.

And she had multiple As. With friends.

So, first step: Talk to a supervisor about your sitch. You don't have to give hard-core details. Just "problems at home." They'll cut you some slack.

Then see the counselors in the life skills center.

CD:

"2long, I don't know if it was rape or not. I beleive it was in another contry when she was visiting. I think it was a big party and she eother doesn't know or doesn't want to admit she lost control and was taken advantage of."

Either way, she could be feeling pretty bad about herself. It may be part of why she's had multiple As, because she doesn't think she's "worth much" or something. She needs your love.

"I keep asking if she will cut comunication and all she can reply is "why should I cut off someone who cares about me and how I feel for someone who hasn't for 11 years"."

Boy, this sounds so familiar. Almost exactly what my W has said many times, including the "11 years" part. My W hasn't stopped communication either. This has been very frustrating, because I believed, like most people on this 4um, that we couldn't start "recovery" until she had agreed 2 NC. Well, she hasn't agreed, and pushing her 2 agree did nothing but evoke the kinds of responses you got. I KNEW that she had the A, in part, because I wasn't "caring about her" like her OM did the past 11 years. But if I couldn't start working on my "shortcomings" (really mine were 50% of the problem, the rest were hers, and the choice 2 have the A was ALL hers), she couldn't let go of OM, and we couldn't start "recovery" based on the accepted definition of recovery. So, I'm working on identifying my shortcomings, loving her for who she is rather than chastising her for what I THINK she's doing (because I don't know for sure what they say). And that is giving us the most progress we've had so far. I truly think that her OM is no longer an issue, and at some point she'll be able 2 make the decision 2 drop him on her own. It can work for you, 2.

"Now she wants to go to colorado for the weekend and asked if I was Ok with that. I said I can't tell you what to do but I am not OK with it."

I think you answered correctly, because it was an HONEST answer. And you're right, you can't tell her what 2 do, but you have every right 2 tell her that it upsets you.

"CAN YOU BELIEVE SHE ASKED WHY?"

Certainly. I've been asked many times!

"Am I controling her by telling her I don't want her to go?"

No, particularly if you're saying that it hurts you for her 2 go, not that you're telling her not 2.

"Am I showing her that what she wants isn't important?"

No. In fact, you might say it like I did: I want you 2 be happy, and if that means we're not 2gether in the long run, then that's what I want. (I knew, though, that it ISN'T what SHE wants, before I said that).

"I just don't know. I'm ready to just call it quits. She will use this against me some how.
I need to get am appointment with the Hs. "

It can only help! It's also quite normal 2 want 2 give up, particularly after hearing the news so recently like you have. Try not 2 worry about her "using this against" you. You can't really control what she thinks, at least not directly. But you can control YOU, and you should make every effort 2 "be there for her" and not LB at all. Basically leave her with nothing but positive thoughts of you. Make her ultimate choice YOU, and no one else.

"why should I cut off someone who cares about me and how I feel for someone who hasn't for 11 years"


hey there, have heard the same ol' song playing quite a few times. one of my WW's favourite, actually. my reply at that time was
- gotcha. finally woke up. a real epiphany. but now, my word, I'm trying my best
- what you are saying is unfair. because I did A, B and C too, remember?
- how could you remember all the other moments when I tried to be there for you when you didnt let me into your heart? in hindsight now absolutely understandable - given the fact that your heart, and other organs too, were busy with someone else (a hint: dont say the last part. it's an LB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

... and ...

- look, there's him or me. either or. black or white. at least in the long run.
- you dont have to choose now, right now. but beleive me: the clock is ticking. it's your choice. I can't live with that. if you dont like it - go.

I lived through this - you can too. good luck!

N

Well, we got into it again today. I told her I didn't want her to go again and now she thinks I am trying to control her. Once again she went into wanting space and wanting to separate so she can miss me and know that I'm what she wants and so I can think about what I want. So I got <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and said I would leave for the weekend. Not good! Now she thinks I wanted to leave so she couldn't go to Colorado. So now she won't go but will find a place to stay for the weekend. I am batting a thousand here.
Anyway, I went home and calmed down. I thought about it. Read some of your post and talked to a friend. I think I would rather her gone somewhere with someone I know than not knowing where she is or with whom. So I called her and told her that I thought about it and maybe I was selfish. Told her that I didn't like the idea but if she could find some peace and time alone, that she should go.
I need to find the guy she was married to a couple of years ago. That just meaning I was so different, happy go lucky type. Always trying to have fun and goofing off. I have been so uptight since this all happened, I'm driving her nutz! I have to change or she won't want to stay with the guy that I have turned into.
I think I am going nutz. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

CD:

Well you're not going nuts. You're going through what we ALL went through so soon after D-day. I'm amazed that my W stayed with me after my reactions for the first couple months after D-day.

I think you did good by calling her and telling her she could go if she wanted 2, but that it would'nt make you happy. That's the right way 2 pitch things like this.

But I don't agree that time away 2 find what you want is the right thinking. I always felt that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" was no more right in all cases than "fondness makes the heart grow absent" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Remember what someone's sig line says: "Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have."

Take it slow. You'll make it.

Hey, CD, I'm someone who came her when I needed encouragment the most. You have found the right place. I have been gone a while, but I read up on your situation. I know your pain and it sickens me that so many people have to go through it. Hang in there. You've probably been told this a million time, as I was, but time really does heal all wounds. I know because all I wanted to do at first was die.

A very wise friend told me this:

What we are all going through is like a huge wound, a cut in our lives. Eventuallly that wound will start to heal, the bleeding will stop, then the healing will start, it will heal slowly, but it will heal. As it heals it will start to itch, and when it finally heals, there will always be that scare. But we will go on.

So, try to keep busy. Do anything you can to keep yourself occupied. If your W goes to colorado, just keep busy. The more attaching I got the more my W pushed away. She's in her own world right now, anything you do to make you seem controling will make her want to leave. Just take care of yourself, try to make yourself the person you want to be. You will come out of this a better person in the long run.

Hang in there.

I want to thank everyone here. You don't know how much it helps to come here and find people who care. Just to see someone has replied gives me hope and some how makes me feel better.
Well I put on the happy face and wished a good time for my wife and our friend. The purpose of the trip was to meet a guy our friend has. She met him on a trip and has been writing him. I have talked to this guy before and he likes our friend. She is excited to see him again.
Anyway, I was nice and pleasant. Told her I was sorry if I didn't show that I cared for her, or made it seem as if what I wanted was the only thing that was important to me. Told her that I didn't like some things that she has been doing and that I was sorry for criticizing her instead of trying to understand why she was doing these things. I scored a few deposits, she told me not to be so nice.
I hated to see her leave but it was better than what would have happened. I feel pretty good right now, I just hope I can keep busy so I don't think about what a mess I am living.
CD

Keep up the good work. Anyone and everyone can make it. It takes time and devotion.

I have said it before and I will say it again, we have sort of a family here. In our hearts we hate to see that family grow because they usually come in pain at the same time we love to see that family grow because if we can offer support and insight to those like us we all become stronger. So welcome to the family.

I will keep you and your family in my prayers

ayslyne

Hi!

good to hear that you are doing abit better, really made me happy for you.
Be prepared for coming breakdowns, but believe me, it will get better. Sorta like "5 steps forwards and 2 steps back" but some day you will "catch up". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How about getting her some flowers for when she returns. Just put them in a vase so that she will notice them. (you'll deposit a "plus" for sure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

take care of yourself

bb

CD,

Checking in here to see how you are doing and well....see you did survive til the next day. And you will continue to survive.

Now about her wanting her space in COLORADO? Well dear, this is a WS line of crap. She doesn't want space (you offered to leave and let her have the home for the weekend)....... NOPE IMHO, she is probably going to meet the OM and the GF is her cover. This mysterious GF;s BF is probably the OM incognito.......

Now this might make you mad and very suspicious but that is why I will also venture to say NOT to welcome her back........don't get flowers. You didn't want her to go in the first place.

I could be way off base here but her reasoning doesn't make sense. Don't reward her for that trip.

So what do you do? U go and take care of CD. Use this time to do some reading "surviving an Affair", "His needs/Her Needs", Love must be tough (by Dr James Dobson). The other books are by Dr Harley. Take the EN questionnaire. This should take up most of your weekend. You will find out ways to handle your anger and learn how to find out maybe not all info but some so that YOU know the direction she is headed and how to keep YOURSELF in control of U.

If she accuses you of controlling her..... don't argue the point (SHE IS NOT LISTENING TO YOUR REASONS ANYWAY), just tell her that is her opinion and you have yours. Don't give her info.......let her give you info. Do make her wonder what you are up to. Not in an LB way......just need to kick her mind back to reality.

The WS have a strong tendancy to want to know all the BS is doing and thinking. So the WS can plan their next attack. Don't give her that satisfaction. Sound like war??? It is. You are fighting for you and your M and for the future of your family against someone who used to be your best allie.

take care,
L.

Well I just took the five steps forward but just fell about a full story. I was sitting in the circus with my girls and my friend and his girls, I just couldn't stop thinking of the fact that my W spread her legs for three different guys. Sorry if that sound graphic but that’s what I see.
Then I start to wonder how it got that far or what she was thinking. I wish I could make her feel my pain.
I am not 100% 4sure that she doesn't have a man in CO but I do know the friend does. The friend is staying at our house with her daughter and also her mother. I have talked abit with her and she has given me hope. My wife has told her that she thinks I am such a good guy blaa, blah, blah!
As I talk to this friend of ours she sees our struggle and doesn't understand why it’s so hard if we love each other. She is concerned for my W as well and sees her confusion. When I was in CO a few weeks ago I went to check this guy out for her. Didn't meet him but talked to him over the phone. So I know this guy is real and he writes our friend alot.

So anyway, I just don't know what to think, what to do. How to take care of myself when everything seems to be falling apart at my feet. So much good advise here and I'm stuck watching a bad image in my mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She has called alot to day just to tell me how far they are and that they are ok. They drove; it’s about an 8 hr drive. I was worried last night because they left late. But they got tired and pulled over and slept in the car. I know it sounds suspicious, but she told me she would do that if they got tired. Because I was worried about them leaving so late.
Am I just rambling? I want to hit something, not her, I wouldn't do that. Just need to release some frustrations I guess.

agree with Orchid. assume the worst, unless proven otherwise. BS in particular have a right to be paranoid.
in this moment, put a huge discount rate behind every statement & "logical" explanation, but assume what every WS acts pretty much according to Steve's archetypical model. they really tick that way, you know.
but all that doesnt mean necessarily that it's over & hopeless - far from it. do all the things you should and then things WILL look up. trust me. first and foremost, you gotta get a grip on life again and become 'stable'. can you do that? you'll find that regular exercise, a healthy diet and targeted self-pampering helps. then take the next steps.
good luck.

Well, I'm not feeling any better today. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
My D tried to call W last night at 1am and didn't answer. Of course I start to think the worse, out on the town clubbing it. I still don't think my W has anything going on there, but I wonder if that is just my hoping, wanting her to be honest, wanting to believe her. She called this morning and said sorry, the phone was in the charging. I believe that. She didn't take anything but her car charger, so it’s a believable story.
I still can't get over the fact that she could willingly have an A. Or just have sex with someone that she really hadn't known that well.
I agree with what you all said about hating her or what she did. It’s not her, but what she did. I am still so in love with her, and I don't understand how I could still have these feelings for someone who betrayed me like she did. I really do not understand why I want to try. I don't know if it will work because there are things she needs to do for me to be happy and I know I have things I need to work on. But I know in my heart that we can be happy. It hurts knowing this and not being able to do anything but wait for her to wakeup! I guess I am just having a bad day, AGAIN!

that's a good start I guess.
having followed 1001 stories on this board here, I would say the bottom line for your case though is: expect that it wasnt "only" a slip, a PA. expect a full EA as well. expect to be lied to, unless proven otherwise. Not sure for example if I would buy the charger story. Finally, you have to realise that, whilst she did the active part of doing something wrong, she found herself in a situation where she was tempted to do so. And both of you contributed to this situation. Be it through not being completely honest with each other, be it for you not listening when she tried to tell you something, etc etc whatever it is. Going forward, that's where you have to work on, be it for your current relation with your W, or if the worst comes to the worst, for your next relation. that's what plan A is about.

I don't know:

"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that people aren't out 2 get you"

evolves in2:

"You might as well be paranoid, because people really are out 2 get you."

Not a very rewarding existence, in my unbridled modesty opinion (IMUMO).

Yes, you can "assume the worst" so as not 2 be "surprised" when it's confirmed, but what if you're assuming more than is happening? I know... Your WW will "smell your paranoia, or fear" and react 2 your negativity with her already-polished negativity - her fog. A never-ending, negative feedback loop? Perhaps. At least that's where *I* was going with that kind of thinking.

Love. That's the only solution 2 CD's problem. If he can shift his focus on how many times his W "did it" with her OMs 2 what HE can do 2 improve his R with his W, he can only grow. This paranoia can eat you like a cancer. It certainly was consuming me. I started hating myself and our M, and became completely unable 2 do much of anything positive.

Sure, don't take what the WS says/does at face value. You can't control that anyway. But don't dwell on what you THINK might be going on, either. Dwell on your R, or your ABILITY 2 have a rewarding R, and you'll either have that with the WS or someone else someday.

OK, its Tuesday morning and I am back to work after a good long break. Got up early this morning and headed to work when it all started to slip into my thoughts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I just can't seem to keep it out!
The W came home last night tired and beat. With stories of a trip from hell! The guy they went to meet didn't fall real well with my wife so she was kind of irritated by him. I don't know what happened but my W ended up bailing our friend and this guy out of jail.
Here is something that I cannot believe my W did. When they got home we was looking at a couple of pictures they took. One of the pictures was my W in bed with some fat geek. She was dressed and so was he but the story goes.
He was a guy from this area who went to see the football game in Denver. When they was introduced the guy made a comment about how he can't meet girls or his wife won't lit him go to any more football games. That’s when my wife jumped in bed and said we are going to send a picture to your wife and took the picture.
Now I know my W and sounds like some thing she would say and do as a joke. But I just CANNOT believe she could be so thoughtless as to do that now when we are having these problems. I didn't even know it was her in the picture until she said it was her. It was blurred pretty badly. But I am dumbfounded to think she would do that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I have a question for you all. I received an email from one of the guys she slept with. I don't think it was from him but maybe some kind of virus that goes out to people in your address book with the address of people in your book. Has anyone heard of this? The reason I say this is because I have received things from my sister that she didn't send and in a language she doesn't speak. Anyway, I wanted to contact this guy, not telling him who I am or mention my Ws name. But just ask if he knows he slept with a married woman and maybe find out if there is something going on. I do not think there is still something, but I know my wife still checks his team’s web site. OK I don't know for sure but I think she still does.
I have an appointment today with a councilor, not a day to soon. Maybe he can help me shift my focus to something besides my WW! I really want to be able to focus on her needs and figure out how she feels. Then worry about me. I mean worry about my needs. Show her true and unconditional love. I still need to work on myself and show her that I am fine with or with out her, just prefer it to be with her. Am I even making any sense?
CD

My friend your wife enjoys giving you pain.
After all you have been through she comes home and pointedly shows you being in a bed with another guy fully dressed as a joke? Clearly she gets of on making your life miserable. Please get into counseling at once. It is clear that your wife knows that you will put up with all types of hurtful behavior and sadism from her.
Do you really think any normal person after putting you through her affairs would come home from a trip and point out to husband a picture of her in bed at a party with another guy? I read somewhere that if a person did not meet the person they eventually married then they would probably would have met 50 other people in a lifetime they would have ended up being married too. Let me ask you this: If you read all of your messages as if it was written by someone else; what would you think of the wife and what would you think of the husband? What would you advise the husband? I think it is pretty clear.

CD, I don't think your W is necessarily enjoying causing you pain. I think WS's just don't want to believe the pain they have caused us BS's.

I would not email the OM. What good could come from it? Do you want to hear that he didn't know your W was married? That means she purposely hid it or lied about it. Or do you want to know that he knew and they did it anyway. There is no good answer here. Trust me.

I wish there was a quick fix for this pain you are going through. I know I could have used it a long time ago.

Hang in there, do your best. This person you are w/ is not the person you married. If you think you can have that person back, then hang in there. Since my Marriage is over, it helps me to think of my ex as just being gone forever. There is someone there that I have to deal w/ but she is not my W.

Time is our friend and enemy in this. Because things to feel better over time, but every second seems like forever.

Hang in there.

CD:

I don't think your W enjoys causing you pain, either.

She is reacting negatively 2 her perceived lack of fulfillment in her M, and this hurts you. Try 2 focus beyond the hurt and on 2 her good qualities. Compliment her on THOSE, however hard it might be 2 unearth them. They're there, or she wouldn't be with you.

Also focus on honing your OWN good qualities and sharing that part of you with HER.

These are parts of a good plan A, really. They take time, but the results will be well worth the time.

Take care,

Hi C_D. I too beleive that your WW did not intended to deliberately hurt you (although the effect was still the same) because if she did have, she would have sent you some pretty sexually graphic stuff with her and one of her OM's, with a sadistic note attached to it. She may even showed you that picture to show you as 'proof' that nothing went on with that fat geek guy. Your WW is, like a lot of WS's, in denial of the pain her A's have caused you.

If she feels safe in telling you the truth, then you may be out-OM her OM. Remember that A's start with talking and if she clams up with you, then she may be doing the talking with her OM. So if you still love her enough to save your M, it is to your advantage to keep the lines of communication open until your pain is too great and you need to go to plan B.

I know she did not show me the picture to hurt me. In I was trying to show pictures of oour friends guy that she went there to meet. She wanted to show her mom and sister. The picture of my W was just one in there. Even when I knew it was her, I didn't think anything bad was going on. But then there is that unsure, because of what has happened. My W is a wonderful person who has gone through a lot and I wasn't always there for her. As much as I would like to blame her for everything, I can't. It doesn’t make the hurt stop, in fact makes it worse knowing I wasn't there for her when she needed it. Even now I write through the tears wanting nothing more than a chance to be the man that brings her the greatest happiness. I have alot to work on and if it can bring her back great, if not, I'm a better man for the next time. Knowing that doesn’t stop the pain either. I still think of the effect it would have on my girls.
I wrote my W an email this morning telling her that I was going for a couple of months and that I hope she will be able to have the space and time apart that she needs. That I wanted her to be happy. That I really didn't like her communication with OM and that he was there willing and waiting to give her support when I am here willing to do the same. But was happy she was able to find hope and support during this rough time...blah...blah...blah. I was trying to be supportive and show her that I care about her concerned and how she felt. Yet let her know how I felt at the same time. Did it come out right or did it not? I start to write and then I send it, when I get a chance to read it later I feel it sounded stupid.
I just found out today that I am deploying this Thursday, a week early. I will be gone for 45 days. Any thought on how I could leave her with a good love bank deposit?
CD

CD:

Yeah, read Greg Baer's book "The Truth About Relationships". It's helping ME do my best damned plan A ever!!!

Last night I asked my W if she would like to go out on a date. She hesitated and I said lets just go to a movie or something, she agreed. That made me so happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We ended up at home watching gone with the wind, one of her favorites. Then she remembered she meets with her girlfriends on tueday nights. She asked if it was ok if she left for about an hour or so. I said sure, go take care of your things. She left about 10:30 and got home about 1:00. We laid in bed and just kind of talked for a bit, then she softly asked "what happened to us?" I Asked if I could hold her, she said no. As she said sorry, I said don't worry, I don't understand but I respect your feelings.
I don't know why, but that really hurt. Then I begane to wonder if it was a guy she goes to see. I don't think so But I really don't know. I have never met her friends, atleast some of them.
I leave tomorrow and I am really don't know what will happen whenI get back.
LUcky for me I have an appointment w/a C today.
CD

CD:

I find that I worry about what I'm ASSUMING is going on behind my back all the time, even now, 9 months after D-day. What I find is that my worries, and my assumptions of what my W may or may not be doing/thinking, hinder my ability 2 be a loving H - the one thing that can attract the WW back 2 the M.

I have 2 let go of those thoughts and focus on US and what we have 2gether and what our fu2re can be. I need 2 shift my thoughts from what Rat Meat might be doing so that I can figure out what I neglected all thos years ago and change THAT. If I don't, what's the sense even TRYING 2 recover, because the problems with our M that my W thinks are important aren't being addressed.

I know how it feels 2 be "rejected" like you describe. But try 2 look at this as a positive step. When she asked you "what happened 2 us?" she was showing you that your behavior has gotten her thinking. Let these moments happen at their own pace. But continue 2 be supportive of her while this is going on, and you'll see more evidence of her thinking.

Update.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I am now in Key West waiting for our aircraft to take us to our deployment location. Its 2:30am and I'm not feeling so good.
The day before I left we had a problem. About a week ago my W left her palm at home and I picked it up. I don't know anything about it, but I turned it on and it asked for a password. I put in her maiden name and it didn't work so I put it back down and didn't mess with it anymore. Well she turned it on and had her name was typed into it and she confronted me about it. At first I denied I did anything, but I thought she asked if I got into it. I went back to her and told her that I tried to turn it on but didn't know her password.
She got pissed and said she can't live like this, and wanted a D. I had talked to a C that day and wasn't feeling very hopeful anyway. I tried to talk to her and let her know that I couldn't promise that it would work out, but I thought it was very unfair that she messed up and punishes me by not letting me try to get over it. That it was just easier for her to start new. We talked about the guy she writes. I wanted to know some things, but she wouldn't tell me who he was where they met or where he was from. I don't know what difference it would make to me, but I felt I needed to know. She said she was 31 and felt that she should give it a try and maybe she could be happy. It hurt to find out she met him after we had talked about the A from the cruise. So I imagine she met him in a club and was drunk, don't know if she slept with him there or if it was only when he came to see her. I told her I didn't know why but I still loved her and that I wanted to fix things. I said I felt I deserved time to heal the wounds and I also needed to get it out of my system. She seemed receptive to this, but still cold. That night we took our kids out as a family. I wanted to do something as a family before I had to go. We talked a little more that night before we fell asleep, but then about 1:30 she woke up and couldn't sleep then woke me up and asked if I minded if she went for a drive. I was asleep and didn't really know what was going on. I woke up about 2:30 and tried to call her, I got no answer. I tried again a few minutes later, she answered and said some guy ran off the road and she pulled over and the police was asking her what she saw. Of course I am thinking the worst, just don't know why she has to leave. As we lay down to sleep again I asked if I could hold her. This time she said I could, as I wrapped my arms around her she held my arm close to her. It felt sooo good, I didn't ever want to let go.
She took my to the airport this morning and as I thanked her for taking me and I asked again. " Will you please stop all communication with this guy?" Her reply was "I will try" I know it wasn't a yes but its a step in the right direction. It went from " what do I get out of it" to "I will try" So I felt good. During the flight here I had a hard time not thinking of how she met him, where he lived. So tonight I went out with the guys. Good or bad I don't know. It sucked, I just saw all these drunken guys hitting on the drunken women. Seeing guys leaving with girls and all I can think about was my W going to clubs and all these guys after her. She is very attractive and I know guys would be after her. And I can't do anything. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I want to call and tell her that what happened, happened. And it’s in the past, but I need to know she will not put herself in that kind of situation again. I know she will think I am trying to control her, but I think it’s a simple request. I want to call her right now and tell her I love her, but it might be to much and suffocating. I can’t even have fun on my own without her.
How can I keep my mind off of her and what has happened? I want to concentrate on how I can take care of me and care for her needs.
Still lost, CD

I am lost and confused. I am now in my deployment location and I am going nuts!!!!
I really want to call the W and let her know I want to forget everything and move forward. But I need to know that she will be loyal to me and not contact OM. Is this a bad move? I just don't know if I can sit here and wonder if she is going out and flirting with guys. I don't want her going to the clubs and drinking. Am I wrong for this? I just need to know that if I am here working on forgiving her she isn't screwing around. I can forgive her and I do love her!! Should I call and tell her what I feel or wait and see how it goes while I'm away? I just don't know!!! please help.

CD:

I think you were right in interpreting the holding and the "I will try" as positive signs.

Remember, you can't control her, and if you try it will likely backfire on you. Just be loving, as much as you can from where you are. I would definitely call her if you want 2 talk 2 her. I bet if you're positive and loving, she'll appreciate it. I would not demand she stop contact with OM at this point, that might backfire 2. I would just focus on YOU and HER as a M couple. Let HER realize that what she wants is YOU, don't TELL her what she should or shouldn't want or do. I know this is very hard, it certainly was for me, but "letting go" of the OM problem has been the most useful thing for me. I still don't have a NC promise from her. The latest thing she's said 2 me, a few weeks ago, was "I will try", just like your W said 2 you.

The drinking at club scenes is NOT very rewarding, is it!? I still like 2 drink with friends, but I won't go anywhere with single friends if they're out trolling for chicks. That doesn't interest me. My W and our M does.

OK, how can you go to bed at night and be able to sleep with thoughts of your W cheating on you? How can she be so selfish that any reguards to me or our girls can be pushed aside for something she is unsure of? She replied to my email finally and this is what she said.
"about the other thing yes you are right i am feeling very confused maybe deep inside I know he is not the right thing for me but I feel so loved and acepted I don't even know how to explaine it, I really have not felt like that in my life time so I wonder if i should give it a try?"
How can she want to try something with someone she hardly know when I am here showing her love and acceptance? She did go on to say
"but at the same time deep in my mind I feel like maybe is not the right thing and it won't be on the long run, but I don't know what is good anymore! anyway it is all confusing today!"
How can I help her understand I am here for her and want to make her happy? I want so much to see her happy again. She is just looking in the wrong places. She was so head over hill over the baseball player, now its some other guy. What the h3ll is going on? Its not like she has built up this friend ship that has turned to love...
Help!!

CD,
When a WS finds themselves involved in a full blown A they become profesional liars. The whole relationship is based on lies. After what you have said about her wanting to go out late at night with friends that you have never met and then going out for a drive in the middle of the night because she cant sleep.... more lies.
This is what my wife was like when she was in that ugly place. It wasn't until the A was exposed to the light that the fantasy dream of theirs became a living nightmare for the both of them.
If I were you, I would hire a P.I. and find out just who she is involved with. If he is married I would contact him emediatly and tell him that you are about to tell his wife. If he is not married I would still contact him and let him know that you are fully aware of what he is doing and that he now has you to deal with.
This is basicly what I did and it scared the h3ll out of him. I then told my wife that I could not live like this any longer and will not stand for it. I also told her that the OM could go near my kids over my dead body. I told her that I would fight for coustody. This shocked her and forced her to wake up and really see what she was doing and possably loosing.
There has to come a time when you say "enough is enough" you can not be a doormat forever. Life is too short.
Hopfuly she will see what she is doing and run from this mess she has put herself in and never look back.
For my wife it took a rude awakining for her to wake up.
Good luck and please pray that God will heal your family. I will be praying for you as well.

Stillhurts

[ October 22, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: stillhurts ]

CD,
You are asking a lot of good questions, but many times there are no good answers. I will attempt a few of them.

You are asking why? Why would she do this. We don't know in every case what tilts them towards having an A but we do know that once there, it is an addiction. It is chemical as well as emotional. I have seen studies referenced ( here on old threads) about it and it is real. If you want to help her, you have to have a plan and just run the plan no matter what she is doing. Imagine for a minute that she is an alcoholic, how you react to that? They always think they don't have a problem, when pointed out to them, they say they used to have a problem, but don't any longer. If they finally do realize what is going on, many times they seem powerless to stop it. That is what is going on here, that is why just pointing out the problem does not work, addicts don't respond to logic very well.

That is why we suggest you decide what you want to do, and do it. If you want to try and save it, plan A. If you want to get out, that is also your choice. When you run the plan, you don't look at what she is doing from day to day or week to week and react to it, you run the plan and you do it every day until you can't go on any longer ( love bank is gone) You judge how the plan is working by how well you do what you plan to do, now by what she says. Long term it often works, short term you will still have a very bad time with what she is doing. DR Harley has taken a universal principal (people like us more if we are nice to them) and made it into a program to save marriages. I don't know of a better way to work on it.

I know it is hard, and I feel for you, I hope you can make this work for all of you. Don't give up hope while you are gone. Write her often and express your feelings( positive ones) Don't make demands, or be negative or sad all the time. When affairs take place, the OP makes the WS feel good. You need to do that too. Be upbeat, happy, make her laugh. Draw her to you like a magnet does steel.

There are people out here that care about you, I for one am praying for you. don't give up hope.

SS

[ October 23, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

CD,
Im a WS and had a big EA with OM. I have been in recovery for a few years now and we are doing good. I'm just getting into this story so if I can help, please let me know. How are you doing today? Have you heard from her anymore?

I know if you are on deployment your access may be limited and that is okay so just write when you can. I hope I can help you. All the feelings you feel are totally justified but you have to work through this and you have to take care of you in the meantime or you will get rundown and sick and that will make matters worse for you.

Please let me know if I can help. You are not alone
Zoey

[ October 23, 2002, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Zoey ]

CD:

"She replied to my email finally and this is what she said.
"about the other thing yes you are right i am feeling very confused maybe deep inside I know he is not the right thing for me but I feel so loved and acepted I don't even know how to explaine it, I really have not felt like that in my life time so I wonder if i should give it a try?"
How can she want to try something with someone she hardly know when I am here showing her love and acceptance?"

This is the part where I have the biggest trouble implementing a "pure" MB plan. Even in her fog, my W is an intelligent, thoughtful, and caring person. She had the cakewalking down 2 a T... ...then I found out about the A. She's said exactly what your W just said, and as recently as this am! How did I deal with that? Well, first thing I did was thank my lucky stars that I had an OPPOR2NITY 2 do anything at all about it. You see, if I were in a plan B mode, advised by a number of friends here, I wouldn't even be communicating with her, and we ALWAYS have made the most progress when we're communicating!

The other thing is that, if I were in plan B, I'd probably be sitting smug as a bug in a rug in the "knowledge" that I was right and she was behaving badly, and she had 2 pull her head out of her nether regions and do what *I* needed her 2 do (the right thing, right?) before we could put our M back 2gether. But the truth is that there's plenty wrong with my behavior over the last 12 years, or she wouldn't have felt the need for an A. How was I going 2 learn about those if I didn't get feedback from her (aka CONVERSATION). Answer: I wasn't. But now I am, in a big way. And we're talking openly about our feelings (hers and mine!), and I'm listening (finally) and she's listening (and hearing what's inside ME, finally). Will we make it? I think so. Will you? If you try. Try 2 understand what it is she thinks she needs that you're no longer providing (or never did?) and ask her how you can fill those needs for her. And remember (but don't rub this in) SHE is the mother of your children, but that means YOU are the father of hers, and nobody can fill either of those roles but the original cast!

"She did go on to say
"but at the same time deep in my mind I feel like maybe is not the right thing and it won't be on the long run, but I don't know what is good anymore! anyway it is all confusing today!"
How can I help her understand I am here for her and want to make her happy? I want so much to see her happy again."

By showing her that you are there for her. Try 2 understand why she's feeling the things she's feeling, however nonsensical they may seem 2 you. You might stumble on a grain of insight that you can BOTH learn from.

"She is just looking in the wrong places. She was so head over hill over the baseball player, now its some other guy."

Absolutely, but DON'T remind HER of this. It would be a LB. You can only hope that she'll learn on her own and that you can be there 2 be understanding of her confusion and ready 2 catch her if she falls. That's what I'd do, anyway.

"What the h3ll is going on? Its not like she has built up this friend ship that has turned to love...
Help!! "

Again, don't try 2 "make sense" of any of this. You can't, and neither can she. But don't forget the part about you and her being the only parents 2 your kids. That's your strong tie. Your foundation. Does she cease being a person deserving 2 be happy and loved because of what she's doing? h3ll no!

Stillhurts:

"When a WS finds themselves involved in a full blown A they become profesional liars. The whole relationship is based on lies. After what you have said about her wanting to go out late at night with friends that you have never met and then going out for a drive in the middle of the night because she cant sleep.... more lies."

Perhaps. So what? This isn't anything that CD (or any of us) don't know now. Sue the firm?

"This is what my wife was like when she was in that ugly place. It wasn't until the A was exposed to the light that the fantasy dream of theirs became a living nightmare for the both of them."

I can only speculate about what happened in my W's and her OM's case. I think it was a nightmare for them. But did it end? No. Still hasn't, ac2ally. They're still talking 2 each other about work. But I learned a lot in a convo with my W this am. He's trying 2 reconcile with his W, who threw him out on her d-day in May. And still they're having a hard time breaking contact. But my W's getting there. I can feel it! And I intend 2 help her, not push her.

"If I were you, I would hire a P.I. and find out just who she is involved with."

If CD doesn't know, he should ask her first. Even then, does he need 2 increase his paranoia by having her tailed?

"If he is married I would contact him emediatly and tell him that you are about to tell his wife. If he is not married I would still contact him and let him know that you are fully aware of what he is doing and that he now has you to deal with."

This is risky, as many on this 4um will tell you. It could just as easily backfire on you.

"This is basicly what I did and it scared the h3ll out of him. I then told my wife that I could not live like this any longer and will not stand for it. I also told her that the OM could go near my kids over my dead body. I told her that I would fight for coustody. This shocked her and forced her to wake up and really see what she was doing and possably loosing."

And how is your M now? Is your W staying with you out of fear? Or does she love you? I prefer letting my W make her own decisions, including leaving me if that's her choice.

"There has to come a time when you say "enough is enough" you can not be a doormat forever. Life is too short."

Geologically, life IS short. But it does go on. Being a doormat isn't a solution for anybody, but a good plan A isn't being a doormat.

"Hopfuly she will see what she is doing and run from this mess she has put herself in and never look back."

YES!

"For my wife it took a rude awakining for her to wake up."

My W is waking up with me right there loving her all the way. This is HER life, so I'm letting her make HER choices. She already knows what my choices will be if hers are hurtful.

2long,
You make very good arguments and I must agree with most of what you have said. I just sence that CD has been in plan A for a long time now and getting no where. All I could think of when I replyed was what I went through and how it played out. It was just me thinking out loud as I did say "If I where you..." This was only my honest opinion and I am the first to admit that I am not by any means a trained counsler.
For the record, my wife and I and my children are happier now than ever before and I praise God for it all. Mabey it all has to do with the fact that my wife and I both turned to God and laid it all at His feet. When they brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus and he said let he that is without sin cast the first stone, this made perfect sence to me and I told my wife that I would never hold this against her. I have kept that promese and she in turn followed Jesus's advise... "Go and sin no more".
Recovery was hard but we kept moveing forward and yes, I am happy to say that we are very happy and she is by no means still married out of fear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
God Bless
Stillhurts

[ October 23, 2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: stillhurts ]

CD: My prayers are with you. Hang in there. If you believe in prayer, try it now; you will be surprised. The good news is that she wants to work on it and may just need time to find the right path. I am dealing with a very tough situation myself and have had many of the same feelings. I just have to keep reminding myself of what is the right thing to do. Try to do some reading each day for motivation and strength. This can be a tough time, but you will come through stronger and wiser in the end. Stay the course.

I have to go fly but wanted to say thanks for the replies. I will give an update when I get back
CD

CD yes please do. Praying for you. God Bless you

Zoey

Stillhurts:

Absolutely no offense meant and none taken! This life is an incredibly complex, delicate journey. I'm glad that things have turned out well for you. I believe that they can for CD as well. ...heck, I believe they will for me, 2!

Have a good flight, CD, and let us know how things are going when you can post again. Give this time and love, and everybody will win even2ally.

Well, I hope they work out for me...
I called the W just before I flew with an upbeat additude. Letting her know I miss and love her. She was quiet for a minute then asked what I was doing. When I asked what she meant she replied that we have all these problems and I am acting as if everything was fine. Sounded alittle upset that I was being upbeat, But I just let her know that I know we have issues but I wanted her to know I still loved her and miss her. I asked if that was bad, she replied "NO" but it confuses her. I asked what she meant but she withdrew and said it didn`t matter. I am trying to call her everyday and let her know I love her along with an upbeat email. I did ask if she was communicating with OM, she asked if we had to talk about it. Maybe I should have left it at that but I told her I thought I was intitled to know atleast that. She said she hadn`t been, but I don`t know if I believe it or not. Should I just not ask anymore? I want to know but don`t want to LB on her. Thanks for the encouragement.
CD

Hi CD,

First I want to say how sorry I am you're going thru this. You don't deserve this and I know how devistating this is.

And to answer your question regarding "talking about or asking about OM with your wife", the answer is NO. You should avoid all talks regarding OM, unless your wife initiates them. You should do your best not to talk about your relationship either, unless your wife initiates it.

You see, those two subjects are volatile right now, and from reading your posts, sounds like they are considered LBs to your wife.

I know this is asking alot, believe me. But you need to concentrate on YOU right now, and put all the OM and relationship talk on the back burner.

Have you read the site literature about Plan A, LBs and ENs yet?

Jo

[ October 26, 2002, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]

OK, so I shouldn't talk about them or us. Great, I guess I will just sit here in the dark!!! Sorry if I sound upset. I know your probably right, I am just having a hard time today. I tried to call yesterday and couldn't get a hold of anyone. I have only recieved one email in the two weeks I have been here. It is hard. As I sat in church today it seemed like they talked about everything that is wrong in my life. How will I last another month away??? We have so many restrictions we can't do a lot. So most of the time I am board stiff, with lots of time to ponder on the thoughtless act of my thoughtless W! I just want to cry to her and let her know how much oain she is causeing me. It wouldn't be so bad if she would just talk to me and show a little remorse. I hate this!!!!
I hope somebody out there is having a positive turn in there relationship. Good luck to you all.
CD

I just got off the phone with W. She was so Cold and hard. I aske dhow she was and how things were, all I got out of her was "fine". I asked if she didn't want to talk, she said she did once and will never do it again. I just want to be there if she needs someone to talk to. She said she made a mistake and didn't want to live with it, I told her thats fine. I was a mistake and it is in the past, we don't need to dwell on it. She said "why don't you just leave me". It hurts <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . Why does she want me to leave her? Why hasn't she just done it herself?
I am so confused right now!!!! I don't know how much longer I can do this!!!
\CD

Hi CD,

Please know we know how hard this is. It's horrible and devistating. Steve Harley equates it to worse than a death of a spouse.

I'm just truly sorry you're going thru this.

Try to concentrate on you, on keeping yourself busy with things you like to do. And mostly taking care of yourself during this time. An A takes it's toll on our health and welfare in almost every way. Believe me, eventually this whole thing will end one way or another, and you need to remain healthy thru the course of it.

Have you explored the idea of anti-deps? I was recommended them, and they drug me kicking and screaming to the doctors to do it. But, I am so glad I did it. It made a world of difference. They don't numb you or anything, they just help you manage through the really hard emotional stuff.

Please take care of yourself, please.

Love,
Jo

CD:

"I just got off the phone with W. She was so Cold and hard. I aske dhow she was and how things were, all I got out of her was "fine"."

Then go with that! Don't press her 2 be specific. Give her time.

"I asked if she didn't want to talk, she said she did once and will never do it again."

Try not 2 take this personally. It's fog talk. But don't react 2 it either.

"I just want to be there if she needs someone to talk to."

And this is the one thing that she will truly appreciate at the end of all this, CD. I know it sounds impossible, but this will end someday.

"She said she made a mistake and didn't want to live with it, I told her thats fine. I was a mistake and it is in the past, we don't need to dwell on it. She said "why don't you just leave me". It hurts . Why does she want me to leave her? Why hasn't she just done it herself?"

She says she wonders why you haven't left because if you DID, it would help her avoid her feelings of guilt. Don't remind her of this, it will be a LB. Just chalk it up and keep going. And she hasn't left YOU because she doesn't WANT to. Keep this in mind, 2. It will help a little!

"I am so confused right now!!!! I don't know how much longer I can do this!!!"

I am confident that you CAN and WILL survive this, CD. Please remember that we care what's happenning!

I don't know where I stand any more. If I don't call her I would never talk to her. I send email everyday but never recieve in return. Wondering if I should stop for awhile just to see if she even notices.
CD

Hi CD,

I have been reading your posts but have not "jumped in". I am just getting back into this. I had a different login back then. I too am a BS. My wife took a year and a half to start coming around out of the fog, guilt, remorse, etc. I posted here a couple of years ago and am hoping to help as much as I can. I was given some great advice from some "old timers" and hope to give back. Mine(marriage) so far is also a "success".

Youv'e been getting some great advice from lots of folks. One thing I sense is your readiness to jump out of your skin and rush, hold, kiss, be intimate, etc. and you can't do that. I learned the hard way doing this. Take time and relax. I know I felt that sense of urgency that I couldn't hold back, I wanted it fixed right then, why couldn't she see what I was trying to do and so on. Relax and make out a game plan! Don't rush! I had to step back and realize that I could not make things go faster without taking time for myself first. Someone told me once that "smothering her makes her look to you as being weak".

There is nothing wrong with your thoughts and feelings, just vent them here - not to her. I tried everything, believe me. I noticed changes only after I felt like I was at my wits end and ready to Plan B. I felt it how you described wanting to hold her and being told no. It hurts, I think you admirably said I respect your feelings and that it was ok. She is going through a rough time also.

Her being confused is great! She is starting to see that she is wrong and what she has. It's how you approach this is whether you come up with deposits or LB's. How do you want to approach this? LB and push her back into him or Plan A and slowly reel your wife back in? I wouldn't demand that she not speak with him again. It sounds like she is coming to this herself.

Take a break a couple of days from emailing her. It may be overwhelming for her getting one every day. Save it for her. Remember that relationships love a bit of mystery. Save some info of how you are and how your day is going. Also, keep your self busy. Volunteer doing what you can. Start a hobby that makes you think of what you are doing instead of her. I liked modeling and drawing. How old are your children?

Well, enough for now. Let me know. Good luck and prayer always helps!

Sorry I haven't been here for a bit, we were evacuated to a new location. I was doing pretty good until last night. I finally got an email from my W, but it about ripped my heart out. I called her last night trying to understand what she is thinking. She wants to seperate but hasn't said anything about D. She told me she had done wrong and she could never forgive herself nor would I beable to forgive her. She just wants to do it in way that is not hard on the kids. She said in a small way she wants to give this guy a chance to make her happy. He makes her feel like noone has ever done before. HOw can I rise the Bull sh!* flag without LBing? In her email she said she wants us to always be friends and she needs me to be OK. How the HE!! can I be OK when she is unwilling to save 11 years of marriage.
She admites she is being selfish. I wonder if I should just bow my head and bow out. It hurts to the point that sometimes I feel that life with out her is not worth it. I know I should feel that she isn't worth it after what she did. I really hate this, and don't know how to get out of this funk. Help....
CD

Can someone shine some light on this email? I took it really hard the first time I read it, but after reading it again I thought it might be a cry for help. I responded by calling and asking what she ment and what she wanted to do? The day after I read it again and thought about it, then called and told her thank you for writting and sharing her feelings with me. But I still need some insight.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Hi
How are u?
I wanted to write u today to tell you that the girls miss u too!
And to say I am sorry for hurting u like I have I am never going to be able to go pass this I don't think but to my benefit I was reading my journal and I really try things in our marriage I really did ! right now I have not feelings about anything its like m heart is close or brken I don't know, Being alone its good for m! I am working so hard in getting the daycare and ourselves out of debt! I want to work very hard to make things better for every one! but I do think that we need to separate I am not good for u! i have ot tell this to anyone, but u can tell me how u want to do it? I need u as a friend and a support but I know I don't deserve any of that! and u would want to give that to someone else, I also know I am going to be very poor when u leave but I need to pay for what have done .
U r a special person and i don't know what and when things when wrong . I am so last but this time is good for me i have gotting close to my girls and though a lot about my self! and what i want to go in life ! and the conclusion is I just want to be a good mami and a good daycare provider! I just wanted to write something and I know i am writting non sense stuff!
hope u r having a good time in curasao go diving for me and don't drink unless u just want it what i mean is don't go bad beause of me, I need u to be ok, but do have a good time how s everything there? prettier? I wish for u to be my friend all the time and also I wish for us to not get a temple divorce hoe thoose that work? or since i screw up that doesn't matter>? help me understand!
please be my friend?
<hr /></blockquote>So what do you think?? I don't think being a friend will work if she wants to seperate. But what about plan A?

CD,
I am so sorry for you my friend, the pain you are feeling hurts deep, I know.
I remember my wife going through the same stage of not thinking that I could ever forgive her and how she couldn't forgive herself for what she did. The easy way out is to quit and that is what your wife is feeling now. Even if she does give up and try to find happiness with this OM she will live with this guilt for a very long time if not for the rest of her life. As you both watch your girls grow up that stain will not go away.
All you can do is try to assure her that she is not the first in this world to find herself in this situation, many have been there and many have found their way out without giving up as she is about to do.
You mentiond a few months ago that she was into seeking God before her life came crumbleing down with the loss of her mother and brother but you then were not supportive. Have you brought this all before the Lord and truly prayed for God to heal your marraige with the promise to completley surrender to His will and not your own from now on? Maybe this is what God is waiting for. As the leader of your family this is your duty to God and to your family, in doing so miriacals happen. It did for me.
Jesus said to "seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightousness, then all things will be added unto you." ..to seek His rightousness means to simply get the sin out of your life, become completly blameless and then all things will be added to you. When we repent (turn around) God can and will make great things happen for us. In doing so, your leadership can bring new meaning to your wife and she might see a ray of hope, hope in the form of "forgivness".
I pray for great blessings on you and your family, try not to loose hope. There is always hope through Him.
God bless,
Stillhurts

CD,
I just read your last post. It sounds to me like there is definetly HOPE! Keep plan A going and I hope what I have said helps you.
SH

Hey CD,

I have to agree that it's a cry for help from her part. She is confused and hurt. My wife still can't get over the fact that she did what she did and wants to go back to change it all the time. Your wife needs you, your support and some forgiveness.(The ultimate Plan A).

You may still experience some bumps, other contacts with the OM from your wife(although she really needs to break all contact), feelings coming out from her EA/PA, but your wife needs to go through these. When they come out of the fog it's pretty turbulent. Just be there for her, letting her know it's ok and that you'll be on the other side waiting. Be positive and let her know of all the good things she is doing to and for you. Thank her for taking care of the home and your children. Lots of things you can do here to be positive! Keep reading up on this site and SAA. Your doing a good job. Her being confused is a good thing! DON'T LB!! Big here! Easy to do, hard to stop. Think before you say or do.

Reaching out for God's help was an excellent suggestion. Let Him take care of your problems. Listen to Him.

Good luck and I'll say a prayer for you. Keep your spirits up!

CD,
I think after all that has happened, her e-mail is a step in the right direction.

I hope when you reply, you don't say things like
" I know we can make this work" It seems to turn her off because she doesn't believe it. I would say things like "I don't know if things will work or not, but I would like to try." I would say something like this and use it as the reason you don't want to seperate. Don't say "We can't seperate, it won't work." Or "Seperation is wrong." or things like that. Go this way - "I would feel better if we could stay together and work on things, that is what would make me happy."

Just let her know your feelings in a non demanding, non judgemental way. I believe this is the best way to confort her and give her faith that you love her and believe it will work. I would never reply right away ( within a few hours of getting something) because your emotions are very high whenever you get something from her, wait a day and then do it. If you want to acknowledge, just say something like " Got your mail, will reply when I come off mission." or something like that.

You have asked ( before in some of your posts) "Why can't she get this, and see what needs to happen." Or at least words to that effect. Well, why don't you and I get some things the first time around? Fact is that all of us miss some things some times. Your choice is to work with what you have got, or leave. Remember that she will like you more and there is a better chance that things will work if you are nice to her even when she causes you pain. That is one of the things plan A is about.

You need to continue to plan A right along, and don't be calling her and asking her what she means, she doesn't know. I see it as a cry for help, and re-assurance. But if you told her that's what you thought about it, she would deny it. Plan A right along, give her positive replies to all her communication with you. Don't tell her she is wrong or ask her to explain herself. Just be positive. Thanking her for sharing her feelings is part of that, you did the right thing there. Say things consistant with your personality when you talk to her. It shouldn't be forced. Here are some things I might try ( but you are not me, so don't do things that are not you.)

This may sound crazy but I still have very strong feelings of love for you, and I still want to try and work things out.

I know you wonder what is the best thing to do, so do I but I still feel I would like to see if we can make us work.

Thank you for sharing your feelings, it remiended me of why I fell in love with you in the first place, it reminded me of why I still want to try and why I believe we still have a chance. Please consider that we still may be able to make things work, for that is what would make me the happiest.

Now, I know you have already spoken to her, this is for future, just trying to give you a heads up.

CD, I actually think you have a chance if you can step up and do this right. I am praying for you as are many others. Hope you are OK.

SS

[ November 08, 2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

I have nothing 2 add 2 the excellent advice above, CD. I truly believe that you can learn 2 show your W that you love her and she has every reason 2 love herself. In the end, the best thing for all of you (her, you, and the kids) is for your M 2 survive, but for now focus on being supportive, don't say or do anything that might appear 2 be applying pressure on her 2 do something "right." It will happen, in time, but it has 2 be her decision.

All my best,

As I sit and ponder one the things I am trying to do, I have to wonder how effective I am at what I am doing? I know I have little faces and tones that show my dissatisfaction or disagreement to what ever may be the issue at the time, I just don't know how to think before the reaction takes control. In my heart I want my W to know I care about her. I want to be able to have the pure love that Christ had. After all, I am no better than she. I have my own mistakes that have to deal with, and in away may be a problem of my own. My self-esteem has never been high in some areas of my life and is probably very unattractive. Even now as I say I want her to know I love and care about her I wonder what secrets she is keeping from me. I found out she has traveled out side the state a few weeks ago and now she is in California trying to promote her line. I wonder if she has met this guy again or if she is planning on it, and before I know it I am consumed in the unknown.
I have tried some of the things you all have suggested and it sounds like good advise. Do you ever feel like you are really going crazy? I mean really crazy! Not knowing what to do, or wondering what you could say that might shake the fog! I went out with my friends last night, just to get out of my room, and was at a restaurant/club surrounded by beautiful women. Everything I saw, everything I heard made me think of my W. Made me think of how she must have got into situations that lead to her mistakes. So as hard as I tried to have fun, I just wanted to hide and cry!! I am going nutzo!!!
Thank you for you replies, it help to have some kind of feedback when I get nothing from my W.
CD

CD:

"Do you ever feel like you are really going crazy?"

Yeah!

"I mean really crazy! "

Oh Yeah!!! Very much so.

Have you tried Greg Baer's book "The Truth About Relationships?" It's helping me, tremendously.

2long,
I looked for the book on my way here, but was unsuccessful. I found it online, but do not trust the system on getting it to me where I am at, so I will wait til I get home. I hope it will help, cause I am losing it. How can I hate her so much and at the same time want to be with her forever? What hurts is the fact that she knows she made a mistake but not willing to fix things? I know she is in this fog that consumes her, But its crap!!!
Sorry for the vent, but thanks for being there.
Cd

CD:

I may be able 2 help somewhat. Email me?

Taker care.

I have miss my W. I was calling and writting her everyday just to say hi and that I care about her. I was getting no response from her, no email and phone calls were all one sided, mine. So I stopped calling everyday and havn't sent as many emails, but now I miss her. I got online the other day and she was online. We chatted for a bit, she said it was nice to chat, it was like having a friend. Thats good because I want to be her friend, the one she can count on. Now I have a change to extend my deployment for another 2 weeks. I really don't want to do it, but it might show her I am trying to give her some space. I am fine with out her, but I do miss her!
Should I stay or go home? Cunfused again!
CD

CD,

I have been following your thread from day one.

After reading your wife's email to you, I wanted to give you a litte perspective from the WP point of view.

I see a lot of similarities between what your wife wrote, and the things that I went through. I see a woman that is terrififed. She is starting to feel the guilt from her actions and at the same time she is trying to still protect herself from the truth of what she has done.

Personally, I think that right now she's looking to know that you will be there for her to lean on because she is empty and in need of someone to "fix" her feelings. She's really LOST and now is the time when she will be looking inward. She is VERY vulnerable at the moment. She's testing the waters to see whether or not it will be safe for her to open up. I TRULY believe that you need to back off with the emotional "reactions" and simply be there for her. She doesn't trust anything right now so you need to show her that you are a "safe" person to be around. Once she feels safe, it will all start to pour out of her.

If you asked me, your chances look great. Please don't walk away and try to hold on. She WILL come out of this FOG.

Lily,
I feel you are right, I just don't know how to show her I am safe to open to. I'm going to an island in the caribean for a couple of weeks with my unit, so I invited her. She said it was something to think about, but we had alot to talk about. I am so lost right now, the girls here are all so forward and open. Not that I am looking for something or someone, but when I go out they all seem so nice I wonder if I could be happier with someone else. I know it is just the attention that I crave from the lack of any at home. If I don't go out and do nothing all I think about is my W and it really brings me down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I know we could have a happy marriage, but I know it will not be easy. I feel so cheated being the only one who cares. I know I can be happy with someone else, I just don't want to be with someoneelse.
I know she is going through a stage in her life that she is lost, her selfesteem is low and she thinks if she changes her surrounding she will be happy. But I know that is not a fix that will last, and I want her to be happy. If she is happy my Ds will be happier and I will be. I just don't know how to show her I want to try.
Should I try and stay away, giving her space? or is that just giving her the freedom she want to see OM? I just don't know. I miss my Ds so much and I miss my W.
CD

CD:

Did you get my email?

I think you're head and heart are in the right place. Good for you for resisting temptation with those "other girls" you mentioned. Yes, you CAN be happier, either with someone else OR with your W in an openly honest and caring M. And YES, you will need 2 do this work 2 be a better companion anyway, so you're right in wanting 2 do it with your W...

As 2 whether you should go home or not is up 2 you. I think it was sweet of you 2 invite your W 2 be with you. It shows that you want 2 be a family 2gether. You can do that in the Carribean or at home. Your choice.

I hope all goes well for you, but realize that this will take time and patience.

CD
You are in the military
I know you are sad and lonely with your current marital situation. I know that temptation is ALL around you. You would be MORE of a man if you just simply kept walking..away from the girls you talk about that seem so "Upbeat and Fun". Trust me on this one. You will get into a boatload more of trouble that you already have going on, if you bring someone else into the equation.

One night of being with someone to take away the so called "BLUES"...will in the end get you the blues like its cool. Trust me. Im a FWS. Don't do it. Work on you, work on your marriage but don't give into a few fun and upbeat girls that are all around you.

It may look like they are fun and upbeat and all that. You may feel like you deserve to be with someone like them but my friend, don't judge a book by its cover. You have no idea what half those girls are REALLY like or really have going on. Anyone can smile and giggle and make it all seem okay but trust me. It won't be.

Concentrate on you and your goals to save your marriage. Don't worry about fun and upbeat chickys that are all around you. You will be asking for BIG TROUBLE if you give into them in the slighest way. TRUST ME ON THAT ONE. One night of being made to feel like you are someone will lead to a path of feeling like a nobody real quick and the regret and guilt will eat you up. I speak from experience.

I know you can justify it. Your wife is not responding. You are alone, far away, tired of being down and out. Find other things to do that are more productive and positive. When the giddy girls come walking by, look away. Take pride in yourself. Do the right thing. Tell yourself. "I deserve to be happy, smile and have a good life and I will get that by doing the right thing, not the wrong thing".

So often we justify being with other person for a million an one reasons but you know what....THERE IS NO REASON TO CHEAT OR BE WITH ANOTHER PERSON UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. The damage you will do to yourself, let alone anyone else, will haunt you for a long long time. You may be forgiven or forgive yourself but you will be haunted by it in so many ways, I can't even begin to tell you.

Not to mention those girls you are around. You have NO idea where they have been..if you catch my drift. They may seem "legit" but trust me all that glitters is NOT gold.

Good luck my friend.
Zoey

[ November 18, 2002, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Zoey ]

Thanks for the advise, and don't worry, even though its nice to get alittle attention, I still love my W and do not want her to feel the pain I have felt. It doen't matter what she has done, no one should have to feel that. I never want to have to face her and say I was unfaithful. I can see how hard it is for her and I know it has brought her much unhappiness.
2long, Yes I got your email, Thank you. I have not explored much of it but I like what I have seen.
I have about 2 more weeks before I go home. I can't wait to see my girls, I miss them alot. I haven't recieved anything from my W in about 2 weeks. Although she did forward a story this morning. I guess its something.
Cd

Going home in a week and want to go with an up beat and hopeful additude. I can't seem to keep it, how can I keep up the act so she never sees me down and out? I don't want her to think I will dwell on what she has done forever.
I am scared to go home..... what do I do?
CD

Hi, citydweller:

I have not responded to your posts before, but I read this thread with some interest. You seem like a really GOOD guy, trying to do the right thing. Being a guy (and a soldier!), you probably want to FIGHT and FIX things right NOW. Believe me, it won't work. I'm kind of a "fix it NOW" kind of person myself!

My H left me 18 months ago, without so much as an explanation, or advance warning. He's still gone, and dv is final, and STILL I have no idea what prompted it, or what he was/is thinking OR if there's any chance of ever seeing him again. Pretty dour situation, don't ya think?

I say all that to let you know that the most important thing you can do now is work on YOU. By this time, you should have a pretty good idea what EN's your W felt were missing, which sent her looking at OM. If so, then you must work on becoming the kind of H who wouldn't neglect her needs anymore.

I know what you are going to say to this: HOW can I show her I've changed, will change and be there for her if she won't let me? The "Official MB answer" to that question is that you must work on YOU during this time alone. It's a great way to fix yourself, so you appear strong, confident, ready to help her when she's ready for help.

This is one of the hardest things for BS to accept. The hardest one to understand. You cant' MAKE them be "ready" for help, or force it on them. They have to go through whatever mind exercises it is they have to go through before they emerge from the fog. In the meantime, the best thing we can do for them is - well, you've been told! All the great advice you've been given is the answer!

WORK ON YOU.
DON'T ask her about your R.
DON'T pressure her, or LB.

Have you read all the concepts on this website? Have you purchased SAA? There is also an excellent book, "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. Both of those books will put much of this in perspective for you, and help you cope while you wait for your W to come back to herself.

I admire your resolve to put your M back together. YOU CAN do it! YOu obviously can't do it alone, but understand you CAN'T rush this. Just take it slow. She's coming around. I know you don't believe it, but she is! At least she talks to you (albeit infrequently)....I haven't heard from my H in 6 months. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Apparently he likes it that way. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

We are all pulling for you.

God Bless,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by citydweller:
.
I am scared to go home..... what do I do?
CD<hr /></blockquote>CD,
Proverbs 3

Further Benefits of Wisdom

1 My son, do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,
2 for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you prosperity.

3 Let love and faithfulness never leave you;
bind them around your neck,
write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 Then you will win favor and a good name
in the sight of God and man.

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.

I will keep you in my prayers...

SH

Thanks for the responses.
I have read SAA and HNHN. I have started reading a book called 7 habits of highly effective people. It has nothing to do with As or Marriage, but it applies to all areas of life. I cannot believe how much the first habit applies to plan A. It really gave me a wake up call, not that it is easy but its talks about bettering your self and not letting your surroundings dictate who you are. Anyway, I would recommend it to anyone wondering how to better themselves.
Now with that said, I sit and wonder how I can go home next Saturday and be that person. How to keep upbeat. To make things harder, I sit and wonder if I should look for someone who would treat me better. My W is wonderful and is very driven, I just wonder if her priorities are in the wrong order. All though I have been gone alot and, as she states, never wanted to go to school and better myself for them. I serve her and jump to her every call. Maybe I need someone who will be willing to serve me as I serve her. I’m I just confused or scared? Either way I have two little girls that need a mom and a dad. It breaks my heart to think they might not have them both together because we are too selfish and thoughtless to fix a M that is broken.
CD

CD:

So long as your "self-improvement" that you talk about is FOR YOU, not a facade 2 make your W "want you", you have nothing 2 be afraid of. JUST BE YOURSELF. Your W will either warm up 2 this "new you" or she won't. But try not 2 hang everything you do on expectations of what you want her 2 do. You'll both be disappointed.

This process of getting past her A will take TIME. Probably a LOT of time. Patience without expectations is in order now.

Good luck

Hi CD,
I haven't seen you for a few days, but glad you are still working on things.

I have started reading a book called 7 habits of highly effective people. It has nothing to do with As or Marriage, but it applies to all areas of life. I cannot believe how much the first habit applies to plan A. It really gave me a wake up call, not that it is easy but its talks about bettering your self and not letting your surroundings dictate who you are.

See, DR Harley, and Steven Covey have taken some universal truths and written books about how they apply to us, and how we can use them. 7 Habits is very good material. I hope you read HNHN and 7 habits over again at least once a year because we tend to forget and need reminders.

Now with that said, I sit and wonder how I can go home next Saturday and be that person. How to keep upbeat.
CD, you will just have to try. There is no magic spell that will keep you from LB's after you get home. It's easy for us to say you need to do this and that but you are going to live your life and we can't do it for you. One help it to write down your goals, and your plans. One of the reasons our spouses feel distant from us is our pushing them away in anger over what they have done. You have some good helps in the books you have gotten, write down some things you want to be able to do, and check each night before you retire on how you have done. As many have said, it's not how she reacts, it's how you do compared to how you wanted to do that you go on for a while.

To make things harder, I sit and wonder if I should look for someone who would treat me better.
You don't have to stay, remember that, you have chosen to stay. That should give you some power to fight the demons that well up in your mind. This is your choice and you chose it because of the kind of person you are, and you can be even better, you really can. We all fight with that, but self improvement is a battle that can be won, don't give up.

My W is wonderful and is very driven, I just wonder if her priorities are in the wrong order.
We know her priorities HAVE been in the wrong order, and some of them will continue to be, I believe that could be said of all of us at times. What we hope is that she will change, as you are changing. My W and I have been using HNHN to improve our M for over 9 months but we both still make blunders - even though we both buy into the concepts.

All though I have been gone a lot and, as she states, never wanted to go to school and better myself for them. I serve her and jump to her every call. Maybe I need someone who will be willing to serve me as I serve her. I'm I just confused or scared?
Her guilt will cause her to find excuses for what she has done, it's easier to blame you than look inside. I have found there is nearly always some basis for the concern they have, even if they blow it up way beyond reality. Examine closely what she is saying, use whatever truth there is to help your plan. Perhaps she resents that you have been away in the Military instead of getting your education close to her. Think on this stuff, but don't obsess over it.

Either way I have two little girls that need a mom and a dad. It breaks my heart to think they might not

Yes, that part won't change, will it. Sobering information there.

CD, just do the best you can, and try to improve. Don 't go home and start up the R talks. Go home and have fun with your family - especially your W. Go on dates that are things she likes, and just enjoy her company. Have some family outings, love your daughters. Think some more and then tell us before you do anything big. Please don't try and figure out if you will stay or leave in the first month you are home, give it time. Notice how both Steven Covey and DR Harley talk about the love bank concept? Go home and make deposits.

SS

[ November 25, 2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Thanks guys,
Some good advide here, I need it. The closer I come, the harder it gets. I have my last flight to day then I am down til the 1st of Dec when I get home.
Don't worry, be happy. Right?
CD

I kind of laugh at the "don't worry, be happy."
I don't know how one could be where you are and not worry and not have some sadness. There are many things you can't change that naturally bring sadness ( and anger)

One of the things I suggest is that you make a list of all the things that worry you, and that make you sad and angry. Then look at the list and divide it into two parts - The things you can do something about, and the things you can't do anything about. After you have it, you need to put all you worry and effort into the things you can do something about. It seems that you spend quite a bit of time worring about things you cannot change or affect in any way. Put your worry, your thought, your effort into things you can change.

As far as be happy, you still have many blessings. Don't let the bad things that are happening overshadow the good in your life. Count your blessings, I believe you will find that you have a great deal to be happy about. If you can communicate those things to youw W, if you can show strength, and love, and not anger and sadness, there is a greater chance she will respond and love you back.

Do you pray, and do you feel there is someone there that cares?

SS

OK, I haven't been here for a few and I am really feeling lost.
I just got home last night and I am trying to be cheerful. Its hard when i sit down and talk with the W and she has to say she wants to seperate!~\
I have been gone for almost 2 months. In those two months I might have recieved 3 emails from her. But, she would like me to help her get a loan so she can get the Day Care back on its feet!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I told her if she wanted to seperate where she was going to go,... she doen't know. Yet she wants me to help her at work and still be friends. Am I just not seeing it here? How can I be friends with her after she has been with 3 other men and wants to leave???? I must have been stupid for thinking This could work. I am tired of giving and not getting my needs back.

Ok I may be in a bit of a fog here as well. I had mentioned I had made female friends that would atleast listen to me. I was put to the test before I left to come home. But I stayed faithful. Its just so unfair. To have someone willing and eager to meet my needs while My W continues to break my heart. Even tonight My W is out with her friends. I am beginning to hate her! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Tonight I told her i was confused about what she had said. Last night she said she wanted to seperate and to night she said she wanted a D. She actually asked what the difference was! Am I just blind? Is it all the same? What are the rules if we just seperate? Do I start dating again? Or do I try to wait til she wakes up or remarries? What about my kids, will they ever understand? Do I tell them their mother is a two time'en H.....? Ok I know I don't tell them that, but should they know their mother cant keep her legs closed? Ok.... not that either.... Or just mommy has a new boyfriend? I just don't know what I'm doing any more.
I would tell you more on why I would be better off finding someone new, but I might just be talking from the fog. But maybe it isn't, I have not had an A.Maybe I'm just tired of trying.
Maybe I'm just tired!
Cd

cd,

I hear your pain and know that you are one frustrated H right now. You should be. No one should be suffering as you have been.

With that in mind and knowing that this pain is not over yet, please try this:

1. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart.

2. Know that your questions are legit.

3. Know that the answers to them are coming.

4. Learn to know when the right answers come.

5. Know that while you can't fix your W, your children need your love and you need theirs. Be there for each other. You won't have to tell them. You have bright children, right? They will figure it out. What the need to be reassured of is your love.

6. Don't help your W get on her feet. She is the one that fell down by her choice. While you are willing to help her help herself and her family, let her know that you are not interested in enabling her A. If she can't tell the difference between S and D, then she needs to start with the dictionary and progress from there. Don't help her figure it out. WS' get mentally quite lazy in the fog.

Don't get suckered into that fog. It is not a pretty place.

take care,
L.

CityDweller.......i agree with you...how could she say she cares about you and cheat on you again and again....if she really cared about you she would let you go......she is not worthy of you...you are letting this happen over and over.....who knows how many times she did and will do it again....why? BECAUSE SHE CAN....she is being COMPLETELY SELFISH......CAKEWOMAN....wants the safety and comfort of home and loving husband.....fun on the side....she probably couldn't handle the real world out there....you should let her have it....THE REAL WORLD OUT THERE....that is....you are being way to nice to her for accepting her behavior.....she needs a reality check....no plan A....just the BOOT....hopefully she'll be back with a whole new outlook on your marriage, if she doesn't well at least you wont be in Hell forever.....you'll meet someone who respects you...I was married, cheated on my husband once..... told my husband right away, he accepted....i felt like s**t....promised MYSELF that if i would FEEL like cheating on him again i would leave the marriage so he can find someone who is better FOR HIM, and i can go and figure my stuff out without hurting innocent people.....7 more yrs. went by....the feeling came back....i got out....today his is remarried with 2 children and happy....he went through hell with me....i was always honest with him....we can't deny how we feel...

Must add.....your wife is nothing but a COWARD, who wont assume responsability and let you go....she's waiting for YOU to tell her to go so she doesn't have to feel responsible for breakup...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> i hate these weak weak people..

Why do I care so much? She has cheated on me more than once and I still wanted to work it out! WHY? It just doesn't make sense to me.

We talked this morning about...? I guess about everything. She just said she is the bad person, she is the one who made the mistake and she wants to find someone who will accept her with her faults. Thinks I will always throw what she has done in her face and use it against her. She wants me to leave her, I guess your right, so she doesn't have to be the bad person.
She said she tried so hard for so long, but I think she is just trying to make herself feel better for what she did.
I know I could be happy with someone else, but what If we could fix our M and not have to put the kids through hell. I can't stand to think about " her weekend, My weekend". My kids didn't do anything to deserve this.
I hate her for this!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
CD

I just had a question run through my mind.
should I plan B or give it some time at home before I do something like that? Or should I wait and let her leave?
CD

citydweller.......i can't tell you what to do, but your situation sounds alot like mine was minus a few affaires.....my ex husband couldn't deal with the my weekend your weekend also....he would say if i can't be a full time dad and husband then i don't want to be anything.it just about killed him ...it was the hardest thing we had to do in our lives...till this day it remains the hardest thing we had to deal with. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ....when he left he did not see my son for 6 months because it killed him to be with my son and not with me as a complete family....he was suicidal and he had thoughts of killing me and my son and then killing himself.....he turned to his family and went to a doctor...it hurt so bad ....this went on for 1½yrs...until he met his present wife.....all this happened 13yrs. ago......we are still very good friends and everything worked out for the best.....but i'm sure he hated me for having the feelings i had also....but he did not want to stay with me for the wrong reasons.....i had told him at that time if he wanted to come back that i would be with him because i couldn't stand the pain he was going through....he said he could not come back because i had pity for him....so he tried to move on...the whole time i was there for him until he met his now present wife....

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She just said she is the bad person, she is the one who made the mistake and she wants to find someone who will accept her with her faults. Thinks I will always throw what she has done in her face and use it against her. She wants me to leave her, I guess your right, so she doesn't have to be the bad person.<hr /></blockquote>Maybe it's not the possibility that you'll throw her A's in her face, but that being with you will always be a trigger that will remind her of her A's. Of course, IF this is the case it's nothing more than a running away from her issues that caused her to have her A's. A good question to ask her would be is that if she does find somebody else what makes her beleive that she won't have more A's when the going gets tough?

TooMuchCoffeeMan.......my ex husband did ask me that....he asked me if i was going to bail out of every relationship when the going gets tough....well at the time i couldn't answer that, but 13yrs. later i must say that the answer is yes....life is too short.....BO

Hoping my answer could help Citydweller understand his own wife....i could imagine how she is feeling.....she must be feeling very guilty and just as upset as you are CD.....BO

<blockquote>quote:<hr />....well at the time i couldn't answer that, but 13yrs. later i must say that the answer is yes....life is too short.....BO<hr /></blockquote>BO I'm confused. Are you actually saying that his WW is right in wanting to end her M and find somebody else because she's afraid of the possibility that CD will throw her A's in her face?

TooMuchCoffeeMan.....i'm saying he should LISTEN to what she is saying....SHE wants out....LET HER GO.....The road will be difficult for the both of them.....It always hurts more for the person left behind, this pain is temporary.......but the guilt of breaking up the family will be with her for ever....BO

Thanks for the clarification boilingover.

You are correct, it may be time for CD to let go. Who knows, she may even want to come back to him if he says to her goodbye.

Ok, now that we clarified everything...
Well it has been an eventful day. She wants a divorce and I want to kill the OM. I just jound out that she had lied to me again. (big surprize)
The New OM doen't live out of state, but right here in town. She went on a business trip the beginning of Nov, looks like he went as well. Funny thing about luggage, it has names on it. Her luggage had his name on the luggage checkin tag. Maybe your right, maybe its time to just let her go. Al I wanted was a chance to forgive her and try to make her happy. I don't know if anyone can make her happy right now. As long as they don't bring up anything she has done wrong I guess shes fine. Sure they are all sweet and supportive, they are getting what they want!~
Get this... She says she just has a really good friend. I want to find this guy and beat the living s**t out of him.
Then she tells me she has to get a divorce because she feels guilty for what shes done, so he!! WHY NOT KEEP DOING IT, RIGHT? We have to get a divorce and then if we get back together she knows its because I wanted to and not because I am trapped! Does any of this make any sense to you? So we ended up with her telling me she has been asking for a divorce for months now and I won't give her one. I told her I am not filling out papers for something I don't want. So she said I need to leave, I said I am not leave, I don't want to seperate she does. So she said she would pack and leave. I told her she could not take the car, the other one is broke. She grabbed a bag and started to put clothes in, then started to cry. I wanted to kill myself. I hate to see her hurting, Even if she hurt me, I just wanted to hug her. Looks like she will sleep down stairs tonight and go do something tomorrow by herself. Do I believe her? don't care anymore! She can run to the OM and see if he can comfort her. Funny, I looked up his # today...He still lives with mom and dad. How can she compare him to me. He knows nothing about life! The bank is going bankrupt and I don't knowe if I care!
I just want to cry, but I can't. I spent almost 2 months crying to myself so my room mate would know somethig was wrong. I had to be out and doing something just to keep my mind off of my W. Wondering if she was OK, hoping she had a smile that day. The I find out this guy is here in town, Now I just wonder how often they got to gether. But I guess it really doen't matter.
I am worried about her. She said she had thought about killing herself, but hasn't because of her girls. They love her and need her, I pray she doen't do anything stupid.
CD

CD.....it hurts me to read your story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .....of course you make sense when you say that you need to get away from each other in order for both of you to get a better view of what's happening to your lives....easier said than done...i know....Why do you have to divorce so quickly? I don't know your whole history with wife but it seems clear to me that she always had things her way......not that there is anything wrong with that......referring to the OM who still lives at home....he has very little to do with her decision to leave....OPs usually are not the reason WSs leave their families, but they don't know that yet....I don't believe that you can or should leave a good husband or wife for another person, no matter how good they seem at the time....Unfortunately too many WSs figure this out when its too late.....you should however leave your marriage if THE MARRIAGE and that LIFESTYLE is not what you want anymore and your miserable and your ruining everyone elses happiness around you (meaning your spouse and children)
trust me CD your wife will only appreciate who you are if you LET HER GO for now.....she says she is looking for someone that will accept her with all her faults.....i think that person is you ..... she just doesn't realize that yet.....she will realize it when she won't find it with anyone else......especially not the boy living at home...don't worry she may compare your eye color to this man but she can't compare your integrity to his.....hope this helps CD....BO

Boilingover - You need to stay out of other people's lives on this message board. Nobody wants to hear what you have to say here. Especially when you CLAIM to be the OW on one message board and then turn around and CLAIM to be a WS on another!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> This is NOT the place to come for "kicks" Boilingover!!! These are real people's lives that you are giving so -called advise to. Mind your own business and get a life! I aplogize to everyone else on this thread for my interruption but felt the need to express caution when posting comments to this member.

Robin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Citydweller,

I have not posted to you before and I am sorry I haven't read your entire story. I am so sorry for what you are going through and a lot of what I have read sounds so familiar. I was struck however by a few of your statements that lead me too ask: RU LDS 2? If your are, and I am, I understand the "exceptional" reasons behind wanting to save your M. I think you mentioned the Temple. If you are, I know how you feel. My H is in-active (we are not temple married) and me becoming involved in church and striving to prepare for the Temple (for me, not him necessarily) is the BIGGEST reason he gives for leaving me. Going as far to say that OW had nothing to do with his decision. But that it had mostly to do with me going to church. And believe me I am no religious zealot, and I never pushed him.

If you are LDS you will understand what I am saying. If not sorry for the misunderstanding. I hope you will find PEACE.

Sharon

CD:

"She wants a divorce and I want to kill the OM."

CD, she doesn't know what she wants. And, try not to think about the OM if you can in any way. Having thoughts of violence is one thing, but if you saw him? You could find yourself in jail if you're not careful.

"Maybe your right, maybe its time to just let her go."

You can do this without even separating. Let go of the "ownership" of her life. I know you don't necessarily feel this way, but even I have been accused of wanting to "posess" my W. In some ways, it was probably true. At least it was HER truth. It's hard to keep this in mind in the midst of all this hurting, though.

"Al I wanted was a chance to forgive her and try to make her happy. I don't know if anyone can make her happy right now."

This is the hard truth that she's going to have to learn on her own. None of us can expect to make another happy. We can certainly want to, and strive to, but for another to find happiness with us, we've got to be happy with ourselves first.

"Get this... She says she just has a really good friend."

If it's any consolation, this is NOTHING UNIQUE. And when the A "ends", it's often used as justification for keeping the OP in the wings.

"I want to find this guy and beat the living s**t out of him."

Try to curb these thoughts. They'll only make you crazy.

"Then she tells me she has to get a divorce because she feels guilty for what shes done, so he!! WHY NOT KEEP DOING IT, RIGHT? We have to get a divorce and then if we get back together she knows its because I wanted to and not because I am trapped! Does any of this make any sense to you?"

No, it doesn't, other than the simple observation that ALL WSs say/do this. Don't even try to make sense of it. She's got to figure it out for herself.

"So we ended up with her telling me she has been asking for a divorce for months now and I won't give her one. I told her I am not filling out papers for something I don't want."

Good for you.

"So she said I need to leave, I said I am not leave, I don't want to seperate she does. So she said she would pack and leave. I told her she could not take the car, the other one is broke. She grabbed a bag and started to put clothes in, then started to cry. I wanted to kill myself."

I know exactly how this feels, because I've done it before. Almost the same script, too.

"I hate to see her hurting, Even if she hurt me, I just wanted to hug her."

So, why didn't you?

"Looks like she will sleep down stairs tonight and go do something tomorrow by herself. Do I believe her? don't care anymore! She can run to the OM and see if he can comfort her."

You don't NEED to believe her at this point. Just do your best to make HOME the safe place for her to come back to. For now.

"Funny, I looked up his # today...He still lives with mom and dad. How can she compare him to me. He knows nothing about life! The bank is going bankrupt and I don't knowe if I care!"

You shouldn't even try to compare yourself with the OM. In most, if not all cases, the OP is nothing like the BS anyway.

"I just want to cry, but I can't. I spent almost 2 months crying to myself so my room mate would know somethig was wrong. I had to be out and doing something just to keep my mind off of my W. Wondering if she was OK, hoping she had a smile that day. The I find out this guy is here in town, Now I just wonder how often they got to gether. But I guess it really doen't matter."

It may matter to you, but you shouldn't worry about it too much right now. It's better left until the point in time when you can feel that you're both committed to rebuilding your M, if you get there.

"I am worried about her. She said she had thought about killing herself, but hasn't because of her girls. They love her and need her, I pray she doen't do anything stupid."

Me too, CD. This will continue to be very hard on the kids, but with you there, and as strong a CD as you can be, you and the kids will make it. Even your W may make it someday.

Well, Another exciting day on the battlefield. As the W took the field she was sporting a fresh new, "what the he!! Do you want me to do" And the BS following up with a "How could you do this to me". As the WW kicks off, BS returns for a personal best. (Not the team desired return) BS punts deep into WW territory. WW comes out with a stiff arm and looks like she'll go all the way with it. Wait BS brings out the LB's and down goes WW. Wow, that hurt. WW leave the field Hurt and running for cover. BS follows to offer assistance. Feeling bad for the low blow BS offers a shoulder and some kind words and an apology. WW fights and kindness and come back with some LB's of her own. Down goes BS. This could be it, looks like BS is out of the battle.
Wait, looks like BS is bringing out he big guns. look out.... He’s out of control!!! Everything he's been holding in is now out and he’s not holding back. Oh my, they are both down!!! Bs returns to his corner unable to return anything. WW hunts him down and with a few soft-spoken word they start to communicate. To think this battle was started with a simple question of what was done with $$ that was with drawn while I was gone.
It wasn't a pretty sight this morning. But it changed nothing. She still needs to divorce to close this chapter of her life. Something that can not be done any other way in her eyes.
She wants to do this so she feels relief from the guilt. Then maybe start to date after awhile, that way she know its because I want to be with her and not because we had to stay together. Sounds to me there is some other reason, but nothing I know about.

FBW, Yes I am LDS. That is why this is really hard for me to grasp. She said she didn't want to get a temple divorce. Now I am really confused, Why would that matter to her? Anyway, I must be going, need to decorate the tree with my girls.
CD

Hi CD,

Your wife sounds really confused. And probably feeling EXTRA guilt because of the fact she broke her covenants. Even though my H is pretty much anti-LDS now I still think he has really felt extra guilt because he knows I was working for something for the whole family.

The fact that your W doesn't want a Temple D is interesting. She probably still wants a forever family because of your girls, but can't deal with what she needs to do right now to get it back.

My faith has really taken a blow in this whole thing because H says he basically left because of the church. Don't know how much of that I believe. But to have the thing I was doing to bring us together, tear us apart, it is hard. But my faith also got me through. I know Heavenly Father has a plan for me and knows what is best. I just have to bring my wishes in line with what he wants me to do.

Keep hanging in. It's only half-time. We're down but we still have a chance before the end.

Take care,

Sharon

Citydweller, What you describe is only all too familiar. My WW and I too were (sometimes: are) trapped in this vicious tit-for-tat, you-hurt-me-so-let-me-hurt-you game. To be fair, it was (and is) largely WW who is v. angry and abuses me verbally. We had now a couple of sessions with an MC who clearly showed us (her) what we (she) was doing to me, resp. to each other. Now, I wasn’t exactly a innocent lamb either - I knew which buttons to press to bring up the rage in WW. So do you, right? To cut a long story short, he told us something fundamental, to which I subscribe now to the best of my abilities. It's you who is responsible for your actions and words. You can't change your wife, or change the way she feels about something. If she chooses to be hurtful and angry - that's strictly her business. Don’t let yourself be drawn into it. Good luck! N.

Hey CD,

Sounds like she is still really confused. When spouses are in the fog, it is easier for them to blame either someone else or make it easier for them to tell you to move on. That they arn't worth it, they didn't want to be married or that you should have an affair also. I have heard it all. Luckily my wife didn't continue her affair and stuck around.

I wouldn't give up either and neither should you. I disagree with the folks that say to let her go. There are still many "MB thoughts" that have yet to be explored. Have you actually tried Plan A? If so, for how long? This is a continuous process. It goes as long as you can until you feel like your love bank is in jeapordy. At that time, you should go into a Plan B mode. This, I believe, is where you are or should be. She seems to be confused and is making things worse in your love bank. It's time to say and with the tough love added, enough is enough.

You should read through this site for examples of a Plan B and start to formulate a letter. Either that or continue to have your bank depleted and make matters worse for you. You can already read it in your posts how upset you are and she is playing you like a fiddle. You get more upset and the bank is getting dumped. Again, been there, done that. Stand firm, tell her enough is enough. Tell her that you love her. Tell her that you are willing to forgive and work on your marriage not only for you and her but for you children. In the eyes of God, divorce is a no no. What's it gonna be? One thing I learned was that my wife didn't want someone that was going to be wishy washy but firm and confident. Your spouse needs to know that you are serious and she needs to have confidence in you that she will be forgiven and the marriage worked on.

Well, my two cents. What's it gonna be? I think that she is confused and waiting. She is in the having her cake and eat it to. It has to come from you. You are actually driving the bus.

CityDweller,

Hi there. Sorry to read about your terrible marriage problems. I'm LDS too. Is your Bishop involved with this? He should be and can act as a mediator and counselor to maybe help your wife to see reason. Getting a civil divorce isn't going to do anything to help with her feelings of guilt. That is just a cop out. She needs to face her guilt and stop her wayward behavior NOW is she wants to begin the healing process.

I'm glad to see that you are willing to forgive her and that for the sake of your kids you are trying to save your marriage. Please get your Bishop involved, even if you are not presently active in church. Most Bishops have delt with these kinds of issues before.

Don't buy your wife's reason that you need to get divorced so that you can PROVE that you really want to be with her again. Please!! It sounds like she just wants a chance to sow more wild oats without feelings of guilt because she is married.

Her caviler attitude towards your marriage, especially a Temple marriage is very odd. Maybe she is suffering from depression? With all the traveling that she does, it sounds like you have enough money to afford a marriage counselor. Even if you don't, the church has professional counseling resources available that you can get through your Bishop. You need to act quickly and get in front of a trained marriage counselor.

footballwidow,

Hang in there. You deserve much better than you have gotten. Keep moving towards that goal. I'll bet HE has someone special just waiting for you.

[ December 10, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Susan's Man ]

I don't know whats going on any more. But I believe you are right, I have to go before I completely hate the mother of my children. Bishop is not involved, althought he is aware. She will not talk to anyone from the church. What can I do? I'm losing hope and beginning not to care.
CD

Hey CD,

Make sure you read up on a Plan B letter. It really sounds like you are losing love fast. It's frustrating I know. There are times when you feel like nothing you say or do will ever work. When you feel you're at your wits end, it's time to go to Plan B and save or protect that love for your wife. Doing this also will make her, if she is riding the fence, stay on or step off. It does need to be done though. If you can handle Plan A'ing then great. But give it a great try. 6 months at least. No love busting! See how that goes. If you can't do this and you feel or see the danger of losing what "you" have for her then Plan B and stick to it. Good luck and I'll say a prayer for you!

CD:

"I don't know whats going on any more. But I believe you are right, I have to go before I completely hate the mother of my children."

You know, CD? I don't believe that this will ever happen. Why? Because you AREN'T beginning to hate your W. You hate her actions, not her. Keep reminding yourself of the distinction, if you need to. And if you do that, you'll realize what I think I realized a while ago, and that is that you won't lose your love for your W any more than you'll grow to hate her. You'll lose your respect for her as a W while she's abandoning her own integrity by continuing her behavior. If that becomes a reason for going to plan B, then so be it. But for me, losing love for my W has never been a factor, and never will be even if we DV.

"Bishop is not involved, althought he is aware. She will not talk to anyone from the church. What can I do? I'm losing hope and beginning not to care."

I believe that you may be losing hope, but I don't believe that you don't care. I do understand that it can FEEL like you don't care. But, if you need to know which it is, because if you go to plan B when you're not really prepared, you'll regret it very deeply, IMHO.

Best regards,