Boilingover - You need to stay out of other people's lives on this message board. Nobody wants to hear what you have to say here. Especially when you CLAIM to be the OW on one message board and then turn around and CLAIM to be a WS on another!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> This is NOT the place to come for "kicks" Boilingover!!! These are real people's lives that you are giving so -called advise to. Mind your own business and get a life! I aplogize to everyone else on this thread for my interruption but felt the need to express caution when posting comments to this member.

Robin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Citydweller,

I have not posted to you before and I am sorry I haven't read your entire story. I am so sorry for what you are going through and a lot of what I have read sounds so familiar. I was struck however by a few of your statements that lead me too ask: RU LDS 2? If your are, and I am, I understand the "exceptional" reasons behind wanting to save your M. I think you mentioned the Temple. If you are, I know how you feel. My H is in-active (we are not temple married) and me becoming involved in church and striving to prepare for the Temple (for me, not him necessarily) is the BIGGEST reason he gives for leaving me. Going as far to say that OW had nothing to do with his decision. But that it had mostly to do with me going to church. And believe me I am no religious zealot, and I never pushed him.

If you are LDS you will understand what I am saying. If not sorry for the misunderstanding. I hope you will find PEACE.

Sharon

CD:

"She wants a divorce and I want to kill the OM."

CD, she doesn't know what she wants. And, try not to think about the OM if you can in any way. Having thoughts of violence is one thing, but if you saw him? You could find yourself in jail if you're not careful.

"Maybe your right, maybe its time to just let her go."

You can do this without even separating. Let go of the "ownership" of her life. I know you don't necessarily feel this way, but even I have been accused of wanting to "posess" my W. In some ways, it was probably true. At least it was HER truth. It's hard to keep this in mind in the midst of all this hurting, though.

"Al I wanted was a chance to forgive her and try to make her happy. I don't know if anyone can make her happy right now."

This is the hard truth that she's going to have to learn on her own. None of us can expect to make another happy. We can certainly want to, and strive to, but for another to find happiness with us, we've got to be happy with ourselves first.

"Get this... She says she just has a really good friend."

If it's any consolation, this is NOTHING UNIQUE. And when the A "ends", it's often used as justification for keeping the OP in the wings.

"I want to find this guy and beat the living s**t out of him."

Try to curb these thoughts. They'll only make you crazy.

"Then she tells me she has to get a divorce because she feels guilty for what shes done, so he!! WHY NOT KEEP DOING IT, RIGHT? We have to get a divorce and then if we get back together she knows its because I wanted to and not because I am trapped! Does any of this make any sense to you?"

No, it doesn't, other than the simple observation that ALL WSs say/do this. Don't even try to make sense of it. She's got to figure it out for herself.

"So we ended up with her telling me she has been asking for a divorce for months now and I won't give her one. I told her I am not filling out papers for something I don't want."

Good for you.

"So she said I need to leave, I said I am not leave, I don't want to seperate she does. So she said she would pack and leave. I told her she could not take the car, the other one is broke. She grabbed a bag and started to put clothes in, then started to cry. I wanted to kill myself."

I know exactly how this feels, because I've done it before. Almost the same script, too.

"I hate to see her hurting, Even if she hurt me, I just wanted to hug her."

So, why didn't you?

"Looks like she will sleep down stairs tonight and go do something tomorrow by herself. Do I believe her? don't care anymore! She can run to the OM and see if he can comfort her."

You don't NEED to believe her at this point. Just do your best to make HOME the safe place for her to come back to. For now.

"Funny, I looked up his # today...He still lives with mom and dad. How can she compare him to me. He knows nothing about life! The bank is going bankrupt and I don't knowe if I care!"

You shouldn't even try to compare yourself with the OM. In most, if not all cases, the OP is nothing like the BS anyway.

"I just want to cry, but I can't. I spent almost 2 months crying to myself so my room mate would know somethig was wrong. I had to be out and doing something just to keep my mind off of my W. Wondering if she was OK, hoping she had a smile that day. The I find out this guy is here in town, Now I just wonder how often they got to gether. But I guess it really doen't matter."

It may matter to you, but you shouldn't worry about it too much right now. It's better left until the point in time when you can feel that you're both committed to rebuilding your M, if you get there.

"I am worried about her. She said she had thought about killing herself, but hasn't because of her girls. They love her and need her, I pray she doen't do anything stupid."

Me too, CD. This will continue to be very hard on the kids, but with you there, and as strong a CD as you can be, you and the kids will make it. Even your W may make it someday.

Well, Another exciting day on the battlefield. As the W took the field she was sporting a fresh new, "what the he!! Do you want me to do" And the BS following up with a "How could you do this to me". As the WW kicks off, BS returns for a personal best. (Not the team desired return) BS punts deep into WW territory. WW comes out with a stiff arm and looks like she'll go all the way with it. Wait BS brings out the LB's and down goes WW. Wow, that hurt. WW leave the field Hurt and running for cover. BS follows to offer assistance. Feeling bad for the low blow BS offers a shoulder and some kind words and an apology. WW fights and kindness and come back with some LB's of her own. Down goes BS. This could be it, looks like BS is out of the battle.
Wait, looks like BS is bringing out he big guns. look out.... He’s out of control!!! Everything he's been holding in is now out and he’s not holding back. Oh my, they are both down!!! Bs returns to his corner unable to return anything. WW hunts him down and with a few soft-spoken word they start to communicate. To think this battle was started with a simple question of what was done with $$ that was with drawn while I was gone.
It wasn't a pretty sight this morning. But it changed nothing. She still needs to divorce to close this chapter of her life. Something that can not be done any other way in her eyes.
She wants to do this so she feels relief from the guilt. Then maybe start to date after awhile, that way she know its because I want to be with her and not because we had to stay together. Sounds to me there is some other reason, but nothing I know about.

FBW, Yes I am LDS. That is why this is really hard for me to grasp. She said she didn't want to get a temple divorce. Now I am really confused, Why would that matter to her? Anyway, I must be going, need to decorate the tree with my girls.
CD

Hi CD,

Your wife sounds really confused. And probably feeling EXTRA guilt because of the fact she broke her covenants. Even though my H is pretty much anti-LDS now I still think he has really felt extra guilt because he knows I was working for something for the whole family.

The fact that your W doesn't want a Temple D is interesting. She probably still wants a forever family because of your girls, but can't deal with what she needs to do right now to get it back.

My faith has really taken a blow in this whole thing because H says he basically left because of the church. Don't know how much of that I believe. But to have the thing I was doing to bring us together, tear us apart, it is hard. But my faith also got me through. I know Heavenly Father has a plan for me and knows what is best. I just have to bring my wishes in line with what he wants me to do.

Keep hanging in. It's only half-time. We're down but we still have a chance before the end.

Take care,

Sharon

Citydweller, What you describe is only all too familiar. My WW and I too were (sometimes: are) trapped in this vicious tit-for-tat, you-hurt-me-so-let-me-hurt-you game. To be fair, it was (and is) largely WW who is v. angry and abuses me verbally. We had now a couple of sessions with an MC who clearly showed us (her) what we (she) was doing to me, resp. to each other. Now, I wasn&#8217;t exactly a innocent lamb either - I knew which buttons to press to bring up the rage in WW. So do you, right? To cut a long story short, he told us something fundamental, to which I subscribe now to the best of my abilities. It's you who is responsible for your actions and words. You can't change your wife, or change the way she feels about something. If she chooses to be hurtful and angry - that's strictly her business. Don&#8217;t let yourself be drawn into it. Good luck! N.

Hey CD,

Sounds like she is still really confused. When spouses are in the fog, it is easier for them to blame either someone else or make it easier for them to tell you to move on. That they arn't worth it, they didn't want to be married or that you should have an affair also. I have heard it all. Luckily my wife didn't continue her affair and stuck around.

I wouldn't give up either and neither should you. I disagree with the folks that say to let her go. There are still many "MB thoughts" that have yet to be explored. Have you actually tried Plan A? If so, for how long? This is a continuous process. It goes as long as you can until you feel like your love bank is in jeapordy. At that time, you should go into a Plan B mode. This, I believe, is where you are or should be. She seems to be confused and is making things worse in your love bank. It's time to say and with the tough love added, enough is enough.

You should read through this site for examples of a Plan B and start to formulate a letter. Either that or continue to have your bank depleted and make matters worse for you. You can already read it in your posts how upset you are and she is playing you like a fiddle. You get more upset and the bank is getting dumped. Again, been there, done that. Stand firm, tell her enough is enough. Tell her that you love her. Tell her that you are willing to forgive and work on your marriage not only for you and her but for you children. In the eyes of God, divorce is a no no. What's it gonna be? One thing I learned was that my wife didn't want someone that was going to be wishy washy but firm and confident. Your spouse needs to know that you are serious and she needs to have confidence in you that she will be forgiven and the marriage worked on.

Well, my two cents. What's it gonna be? I think that she is confused and waiting. She is in the having her cake and eat it to. It has to come from you. You are actually driving the bus.

CityDweller,

Hi there. Sorry to read about your terrible marriage problems. I'm LDS too. Is your Bishop involved with this? He should be and can act as a mediator and counselor to maybe help your wife to see reason. Getting a civil divorce isn't going to do anything to help with her feelings of guilt. That is just a cop out. She needs to face her guilt and stop her wayward behavior NOW is she wants to begin the healing process.

I'm glad to see that you are willing to forgive her and that for the sake of your kids you are trying to save your marriage. Please get your Bishop involved, even if you are not presently active in church. Most Bishops have delt with these kinds of issues before.

Don't buy your wife's reason that you need to get divorced so that you can PROVE that you really want to be with her again. Please!! It sounds like she just wants a chance to sow more wild oats without feelings of guilt because she is married.

Her caviler attitude towards your marriage, especially a Temple marriage is very odd. Maybe she is suffering from depression? With all the traveling that she does, it sounds like you have enough money to afford a marriage counselor. Even if you don't, the church has professional counseling resources available that you can get through your Bishop. You need to act quickly and get in front of a trained marriage counselor.

footballwidow,

Hang in there. You deserve much better than you have gotten. Keep moving towards that goal. I'll bet HE has someone special just waiting for you.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Susan's Man ]</small>

I don't know whats going on any more. But I believe you are right, I have to go before I completely hate the mother of my children. Bishop is not involved, althought he is aware. She will not talk to anyone from the church. What can I do? I'm losing hope and beginning not to care.
CD

Hey CD,

Make sure you read up on a Plan B letter. It really sounds like you are losing love fast. It's frustrating I know. There are times when you feel like nothing you say or do will ever work. When you feel you're at your wits end, it's time to go to Plan B and save or protect that love for your wife. Doing this also will make her, if she is riding the fence, stay on or step off. It does need to be done though. If you can handle Plan A'ing then great. But give it a great try. 6 months at least. No love busting! See how that goes. If you can't do this and you feel or see the danger of losing what "you" have for her then Plan B and stick to it. Good luck and I'll say a prayer for you!

CD:

"I don't know whats going on any more. But I believe you are right, I have to go before I completely hate the mother of my children."

You know, CD? I don't believe that this will ever happen. Why? Because you AREN'T beginning to hate your W. You hate her actions, not her. Keep reminding yourself of the distinction, if you need to. And if you do that, you'll realize what I think I realized a while ago, and that is that you won't lose your love for your W any more than you'll grow to hate her. You'll lose your respect for her as a W while she's abandoning her own integrity by continuing her behavior. If that becomes a reason for going to plan B, then so be it. But for me, losing love for my W has never been a factor, and never will be even if we DV.

"Bishop is not involved, althought he is aware. She will not talk to anyone from the church. What can I do? I'm losing hope and beginning not to care."

I believe that you may be losing hope, but I don't believe that you don't care. I do understand that it can FEEL like you don't care. But, if you need to know which it is, because if you go to plan B when you're not really prepared, you'll regret it very deeply, IMHO.

Best regards,