To all those who have followed me through the past month on shes leaving me.. and OM gone/back..thanks but I can't go on anymore. Why live with someone who does not love you.. why play second fiddle to the om.. Mrs MM does not want anything to do with me and is getting ready to start her new life..seperate bank account.. seperate visa..getting info together on how to change things over dealing with house..still contact with OM.. telling me he says its over... BLA BLA..After another major fight last night...I have come to the conclustion that although Plan A did not go as planned and I most likely did not give it a chance to work..she is done with the marriage. done with me..could not care less about trying for MC to save our family..says that girls are going to be okay.. they will be so sad without their dad close by.. I was a good father... but I guess a wrotten husband..she says that I treated her like garbage.. so I got what I deserve...but you know I have seen the errs of my ways..and have tried to show so many times how sorry I am.. and try to make amends.. but now she loves someone else..maybe she will still have him .although he says its over..my guess first chance he gets to spread her legs he will..sorry for sounding crude but I really am sick of it all. She is getting more and more angry as she talk to me...and keeps saying you dont know how to love me..with all the crap thats going on how can I have a chnace to love her..end thing is that Marathonman cant take this anymore and has to accept that I havd treated my wife bad.. she feel in love with someone else to get the comfort...I am trying to make amends reading. 1)SAA, 2) relationship rescure.. 3)save your marriage..ect.. trying to get her to councelling but to no avail..time to take some time if I can stay alive and build a better MM and try to find a woman who will and love me unconditionally and let me love her.. I am just so sorry that my beautful daughters will not have a family to grow up with..evryone says now.. hey.. its the norm .most their friend will come from same families.. H&LL I come from a Island where people see things though no matter how bad..but my wife sees the future thrrough rose color glasses.. Thats all for now. if anyone wants to talk me out of this please try but I see no use in trying anymore.

<small>[ April 02, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

I am NOT going to try to persuade you to do anything that you don't want.

You say that your WW's heart is no longer into saving the M and that's understandable considering she is deep in her A with OM. But your heart isn't into it either because every post of yours, you almost seem to be pleading with us to tell you to 'move on'. Why do I get the feeling that you are involved with someone else?

The reality is that the vast majority of A's end anywhere from 6 months to 2 years from the time they start. Why? because reality destroys the myth of being 'soul mates' and since they don't have the relationship tools and knowledge on how to use them, they resort to their normal response which is to flee the relationship.

You have been given excellent advise by folks like MortarMan, Just Learning, etc. but it's up to you to decide if you are going to take their advise or continue to do what has not worked in the past.

For a marathoner you certainly want to end the race immediately.

There is no one else in my life but I am interested in a woman I just met.. she is a runner as well ..thats all!!
I'm just so scared and tired of trying..no matter what I say, she keeps adding new things like starting her own bank account.. own visa.. wanting to talk to her lawyer about seperate living arrangements..she is now willing to move out and wil most likely want to take the kids... we have had some major fights the last few days..she says that the A with the OM is over.. and it was just kissing.. no SC.. although I feel it can start again at any timer... now it just comes back to how I treated her like garbage for the past few years.. she wont go yo MC.. to try to work things out.. no matter how good I am niw.. she is still finished..I really dont think there is fog.. I love her.. butwith all the crap she is throwing .. how do I keep going.. my daughters deserve a family with a mom and dad...My WW says we will always be fighting.. I think with MC we can start seeing each other differrently and begin to see a light..I will keep trying on Plan Af I have to but the towel is ready to do its deed..

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

MM-

I've followed your sitch for awhile and here's my take on things: You need to figure out a way to "get over" the anger and frustration of the physical part of your W's A, as it's obviously a major stumbling block. As just so you know, the idea of accepting that your WS slept with someone else seems to be much more difficult for men to get past than women(I know it was for me).

With these major fights you've had, do they revolve around you pressing your W for details about sex with the OM? If you insist on pressing for those sorts of details at this time it's going to make reconciliation impossible as there's no way she can feel safe around you. I wish you luck and hope you know that things can turn around if you make some changes.

In a lot of cases yes these figts have been about her and the OM..and what she plans to do once she gets me out of her life.. with The OM..
Now what do I do.. understand I dont have a printer so I have to keep going back looking through the threads:
Now!
the changes I have to make...
except that the marraige is over and that she does not want to be with me
2) stop touching her
3)stop asking her to go to MC
4)make things pleasant around house..be happy.. doesn't seem the ads kicked in yet..
5)spend time with kids..
6)dont talk to her..
7) is there something in plan A im missing??
8) do chores around house
9) respect her.. ie wishes to end marriage
she says thst she will bemiserable if she stays with me.. I dont want to be.. that is why I want to try MC. maybe call the harleys if I can scrape up enough to pay.. I am flat broke..

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no one else in my life but I am interested in a woman I just met.. she is a runner as well ..thats all!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You see how you are contradicting yourself? Even though you and this OW have not started an A, you are 'interested' in this woman to fulfill your unmet EN's which is the first step in getting into an A. This 'interest' robs you of your will and energies to fight for your M. No wonder you want to throw in the towel.

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

got a 2x4 handy I need a crack!! she is not even a friend yet..jsut met her.. fact is My wife wants out and yells at me to accept that we have no future..nada! I want to give it my all and get my fgamily back on track..Hoping Plan A will drag my wife back from the depths.. but again .. I now have to start taking care of marathonman..making him a better person.... my ww..would care if I turned into God himself,,, she still would want the marraige to end.

MM- Have you read Cali's post titled "How sweet it is..."? Specifically:

"My goal went from saving my marriage... to saving me... and I think that made the difference. I WOULD BE WHOLE AND HEALED... and so too will YOU... just make THAT your goal."

Do you get that idea? Make positive changes for yourself and stop worrying so much about how she perceives them or worse yet, how you think she perceives them. This is the direction you need to go, but it takes alot of soul searching and effort. Good luck....

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: litchfield ]</small>

2x4 coming up and ready to be swung.

MarathonMan, there is no guarantee that even with the best implementation of plan A and plan B, your M will survive. But they have proven to be the best chance that a spouse has to save his/her M.

The last thing you need right now (if you are truly serious about trying to save your M) is to cross the boundary of establishing a secret frienship with a member of the opposite sex, because that is the first of the boundaries that once crossed inevitable lead to an A (your W is living proof of this).

Ironically the best time to save your M will probably come when you learn to emotionally detach from your W. How you do this? by making peace with the possibility that your M may indeed end in divorce. I know it's strange but once you achieve this inner peace, your W MAY notice it and wonder if she is making the right choice in leaving you. Don't beleive me? just read Bramblerose's post on starman's thread titled Questions about false recoveries to see what I'm telling you is true.

Good gawd TMCM ..... how utterly astute of you!!!!

Pepper is impressed with the intuitiveness of TMCM!!!!

Litchfield.." MY GOAL WENT FROM SAVING MY MARRIAGE TO SAVING ME.. AND i THINK THAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE.. i WIULD BE WHOLE AND HOPEFUL..AND SO TOO WILL YOU.. JUST MAKE THAT YOUR GOAL..//
Excellent point.. almost felt like TMCM.. lent you his 2X4..this is where Mortarman told me to srtart.and seem to be the main point of Plan A..I have to come to terms with the seperation and divorce...she just has absolutely no feelings for me... and cant see a future..when she says that she does not love me.. she means it..no fog.. no pb..so now to just except that it will happen and now concentrate on a better MM..
TMCM.. thanks for the crack..I understand bramblerose..and will just forget about the M...I will take matters in my own hand and get the divorce papers..jsut to get on with my life and let her do what she has to.. but I assure you she wont be thinking about how she can get MM back..that is a guarantee.. she wants to live a new life.. the sooner the better.. again..I understand that it is now about me .. taking care and making a better MM..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but I assure you she wont be thinking about how she can get MM back..that is a guarantee.. she wants to live a new life.. the sooner the better.. again..I understand that it is now about me .. taking care and making a better MM..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are probably right because her fantasy right now is OM. But since nobody is perfect, the time WIll come when she will start to see that OM isn't whom she thought he was. When that day finally comes, she may finally realize that you were not the problem after all, but the person looking back at her in the mirror.

Hey MarathonMan,

When your W babbles all that stuff, babble back. She tells you she doesn't want to be married to you. Well tell her right now you don't want to be married to someone in her state of mind either. (you have to mean this).

If she further states that she sees your changes, knows they are good but is afraid you will go back to your 'bad' ways. Tell her, well that is possible, I am afraid you will do the same.

See these are classic WS lines. They are meant to push our buttons and produce emense pain. It does right?

Know this, then learn how to minimize it, avoid it and give it back. That will help you. NOw you may lead to separation even D but it was going to go there anyway as long as things stayed the way they are now.

Some of us think we have to go kicking and screaming...... all the way to the D. That is needed for most of us, esp at the beginning, eventually that need gives way to the BS' personal needs.

So right now, if you know you did the best you could or the most you could due circumstances, stop beating yourself up. She is going to go anyways, even if you did a perfect plan A. You are not a failure. She is.

You need to protect you and the children. Right now her decision making capability is not healthy nor safe for the family. If given a choice to please her family or the OM, what do you think she will choose? Now do you want your children to be in that environment? Then check out your options to ensure their safety. I don't just mean from the 'serious' stuff, everyday things. Keep the lines of communication open with your children. Let them know you love them and want to be with them. Show care and love for them.

This is a turning point for you and them. Make that turn together. Your W will be on her own in this matter whether the children are with her or not. Why? Because your children did not pick the OM, she did.

take care,
L.

Thanks Orchid..TMCM
Whether she does leave in the end..she has not mentioned a D.. just seperation.. maybe in her niave mind its all the same.. howver she is starting to get very emotional..and crying.when I tell her I loved her last night.. she said that she felt so guilty..about what I dont know.. In the afternoon she said that she wanted me out for the evening or for her to go out..because she was so stressed and wanted to be alone. we ended up watching the tube and having a snack together..I spent the evening mopping the floor and cleaning the house.. I am sure she noticed..none the less I am going to continue with no more lbs .. just keeping my mouth shut..I am meeting with the mediator tomorrow and she knows that I am totally against this break up.. make put a damper on the process. My WW also mentioned that she may agree to MC or C of sorts.. if I can get her there who knows..I am sure she still has storng feelings forn the OM but lets see ehat happens..like I say I dont want to play second fiddle..This D$%Mrolllercoaster is a surely a wicked ride.. thanks and keep the advise coming.. I will continue to pray..thanks again!!

I

update..WW spent the afternoon yesterday looking at apartments in the paper.. looks like she may be ready to move out.maybe thinking that this is the only way to get OM in bed..altough she says OM called it off.. she has been spending a lot of time on the phone with him at work,, says that they are talking business... I know 2x4 up the side of the head ,, forget about the om and start thinking about making a better MM..My only concern is that she may try to take the girls..spoke with my lawyer this afternoon..told me to stay out and not move..also met with mediator who suggested councelling for both of us to come closer to an agreement of whats going on.. maybe if I can get her there..she may start to see the light..continuing on with plan A until something happens...

I just dont know how all this PB from my wife can be labled as fog talk she says that this is reality.. and I better get with it..if you could only see her eyes.. she has no interest inme touching her... talking about us.. and definitely sex has beeen a noninssue for three monyths plus.. I cant see her coming back out of that at all..shes gone and she aoint coming back the next one if he hasn't slept with her will be the OM.. not MM..only a miracle would chnageit.. she too far gone stubburn.. but I stil want to fight for her... I am begfinning to feel like a loser.. for trying to have something that will never happen..

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

update..WW spent the afternoon yesterday looking at apartments in the paper.. looks like she may be ready to move out.maybe thinking that this is the only way to get OM in bed..altough she says OM called it off.. she has been spending a lot of time on the phone with him at work,, says that they are talking business... I know 2x4 up the side of the head ,, forget about the om and start thinking about making a better MM..My only concern is that she may try to take the girls..spoke with my lawyer this afternoon..told me to stay out and not move..also met with mediator who suggested councelling for both of us to come closer to an agreement of whats going on.. maybe if I can get her there..she may start to see the light..continuing on with plan A until something happens...

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

update..WW spent the afternoon yesterday looking at apartments in the paper.. looks like she may be ready to move out.maybe thinking that this is the only way to get OM in bed..altough she says OM called it off.. she has been spending a lot of time on the phone with him at work,, says that they are talking business... I know 2x4 up the side of the head ,, forget about the om and start thinking about making a better MM..My only concern is that she may try to take the girls..spoke with my lawyer this afternoon..told me to stay out and not move..also met with mediator who suggested councelling for both of us to come closer to an agreement of whats going on.. maybe if I can get her there..she may start to see the light..continuing on with plan A until something happens...

I dont seem to be getting much feedbck but here goes with a futher update...
Just got back from a session with a Psychologist.. with my WW..to get me to understand that she does not love me... the Psych said that my ww container oif love is empt and that she is done with marriage..no coming back and that I have to accept it..guess that she is right..she also said we have to decide on a date for physical seperation..there is no hope in this case.. no matter what I try to do.. she has been gone in her mind since last summer so..I have to let go and say what odds..do I [censored] to try and push her further apart or resolve to the fact that I will never have herin my life again.. sure looks grim... please help me!!!!

I thought you said you're a runner? Did you ever win a race? Because with the way you always sound concerning repairing your marriage, you've already lost before you even started. And you're focusing on the wrong things still!! I'd love to still try and help you Marathonman, but I just do not know anymore? I'm up and running myself right now if you want to get in and run a few miles!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ April 01, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: SearchingHeart ]</small>