sure missed hearing from you...I dont want to give up.. but when she keeps on telling me and the Psychologist says forget it.. my ww wants someone else..she has no love..no interest with me in her future.. The psych told me that i have to accept oit.. or else I am going to force myself into depression.. I want to fight and run the marathon.. all 26 miles.. but I cant fix my marraige if she is not anywhere near.. Plan A will only take me so far..I may have some time but she says that if she comes back she will be miserable and will be always thinking aboutv the OM... sorry to ramble.. but I have no one close by to talk to .. you guys are my only hope.. I am listeneing to you vets.. but each time I look at my wife.. I get discouraged.. Thanks for checking in on me.. please dont leave me I need you guys more than ever..

Searching Heart,,
sure missed hearing from you...I dont want to give up.. but when she keeps on telling me and the Psychologist says forget it.. my ww wants someone else..she has no love..no interest with me in her future.. The psych told me that i have to accept oit.. or else I am going to force myself into depression.. I want to fight and run the marathon.. all 26 miles.. but I cant fix my marraige if she is not anywhere near..You said that I am focusing on the wrong thing.. would that be herand the OM and not on fixing myself.. Once I came homer from Psych..had a major LB asking about thje OM again...I have to let it go..she'll never tell me the whole story..or how she felt in his arms.. Plan A will only take me so far but I'll do my best...I may have some time but she says that if she comes back she will be miserable and will be always thinking about the OM... sorry to ramble.. but I have no one close by to talk to .. you guys are my only hope.. I am listeneing to you vets.. but each time I look at my wife.. I get discouraged.. Thanks for checking in on me.. please dont leave me I need you guys more than ever..

Marathonman, Sorry I don't have a pc at the home right now, but you can count on me to be checking in on you now and again! Look you must be prepared for the long, long haul with your wife if you realy want her back. Be Patient with her, don't close her, in give her space! I don't know how close you were with her in your years with her, so you have to do the work! I'm talking about knowing your wife personally. Her Likes and dislikes, her needs, the things about her that you can only know! Keep showing her in as many ways as you can, how much you realy love her, and that no matter what she did in the pasted or what she does in the future you'll always love her! It's gong to take a long time to get her back were you would like her to be! SO BE PATIENT WITH HER! She'll never last with this OM, he's a fake!! You need to take your time with your wife, just be thankful for the little things, set goals and work on them one by one! PROVE to her without demanding anything from her, THAT YOU REALY LOVE HER!! At the same time GUARD yourself! Keep positive in everything Marathonman, everyting! Just keep helping her as mush as you can, and please stay off the SEX THING, do not focus on that and most of all do not rub it in her FACE! She knows shes doing wrong, just help her find her way back, and take your time and do anything you can to proved to her that your for real, DON'T give up! I'll be back in a day or two, so just hang in there and BE PATIENT Marathonman. Don't worry yourself so much, be your man and be the father you should be, stick to your beliefs! Keep kinda in the background, and listen more to your wife and see if you can find out her needs, look close now, sometimes they're very hard to find. KEEP YOUR CHIN UP Marathonman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Searching Heart.. I really want to show her that I love her..but I cant get the chance..she does not want me near her at all.. I know that I have to get past the OM.. she says that it is over with him. But she just left after sitting at the table trying to find a way to get either one of us out of the house by the end of April.. she left in her car to go look at apartments supposeably close by.. she also wants to consider buying a second house down the street, so the girls can be closer to each one of us.. the sad thing is that on both our salaries,we hardly get by..she does not want me to be anywhere near her. .shestalking about staying with a friend on the weekends, ,just to get away from the stress.. of being around me..point is I'm having a hard time with this breakup/.. I have no idea how I am ever going to get her back... i dont want to give up.. I want to do my best to deposit into the love bank but it seems senseless..she is seeing her lawyer tomorrow for suggestions on how to get seperate living arrangements.. but says that she does not want a court order..I am not abusive.. just trying to accept inmy best way on whats happening..she feels that she shouldnt leave.. I know Im rambling but I am falling into the trap as Mortarman said I would... I have to shut up and be the best I can..I dont know her needs cause she said I ahave screwed up everything in our marriage,,,she admits no fault .. so I dont know where to start..she will not give me chance.. all she wants is out and the quicker the better..I will not have a chance to work bit by bit.. but I have to .. for the sake of the girls..
not sure if I'm making sense.. but thanks for checking in.. I know everyone feels I need the 2x4 to the head.. I'll jsut try my best and accept what god lets happen,,Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

mm...

psychologists and therapists drive me CRAZY... we did MC and 'our' therapist eventually backed him into a corner so that he quit MC and left the house... she also tried to make me see that our marriage was OVER and I just had to accept that he didn't love me anymore...

Now that being said, I know NOW that I was TOO focused on my H and what he was or wasn't doing. As my post "How sweet it is..." said... I had to learn to focus on ME... by changing ME... real changes... INTERNAL... FOREVER changes... it made our relationship change... because how I reacted and acted around him changed...

My desperation for our marriage diminished... I got to a point of not caring... if giving up MYSELF meant keeping my marriage... I didn't want it... I wasn't going to live together as co-parents... just to keep our marriage intact.... I GOT STRONGER!

God and Jesus in my life... gave up control... worked on ME...

That is the common thread that I see in RECOVERY... when people focus on being WHOLE and HEALED... the marriage and relationship can also be WHOLE and HEALED...

Cali

<strong>
she says that it is over with him
</strong>

well, if true, that would explain a few things. your wife might be in a particularly bad place the moment, as she lost him and thinks she lost you too. think of it as withdrawl symptoms.

also, the fact that your discussions end up in rows points to the fact that YOU are not in control of what and HOW YOU are saying things. (similar applies to your wife of course, but remember: you have to take responsibility for YOUR actions, she for hers. You wont change her, and she wont change you). Work on that.

If she really dumped/was dumped by OM, then your plan should be clear: make it safe for her to return. dont be obsessed. be calm. be strong. easier said than done of course, but these actions will bring her back, whilst pleading/crying/shouting/arguing will simply not. let her talk to the lawyer - and you should do the same, so you get the facts.

regards
N

Cali...you seems to hit the nail on the head..
Both the psch and MC.. seemed to be trying to help us end the marriage instead of helping us save it! also try to get me to accept that she does not love me anymore..MC appraoch really confused me and thus I did not have my heart into it at the time...
your story is quite amazing..like i said before.. I am really impressed with you!! Now... what the H$LL do I have to do to fix myself...I have to get internally and change forever..what changes did you make// how did you get away from caring aboout saving your marriage..My wife eyes are so shut she'll never see a change and if she did It wouldn't matter since she has no interest in me what so ever..how did you make yourself stronger?? time for me is running out...and not sure she will either notice or accept changes. I want to stop worrying about the marriage and focus on me..but I keep thinking about her and the OM. although she says its over with him I am weary that it is true..

NICK... she lost the OM .. so she says that he called it off .. but he is always aroung the hospital with her.. so they still have contact. she did not lose me.. she dumped me and wants nothing to do with me.. aside from sharing raising the gils in seperate homes..On rebuiling and trying to get her back, first I have to learn to just shut up and be as nice as possible...I am trying to back off on the cyring and neeedy and have done an okay job since starting on the ad's...I will try to be calm and strong.. for myself..she is getting angrier by the day.. no physical contact .. no kissing no hugs..just wants space and be as far away from me as possible..not sure how being calm and strong and sticking to Plan A will help.....to all the MB gang.. I am trying and I dont want to give up.. but I am dealing with a uniqe woman here... she is set in her ways.

marathonman:

"the Psychologist says forget it"

Fire the g*d*****d "psychologist!"

People like that really piss me off.

That being said, everyone is right in that you are too focused on what your W may or may not be thinking or planning right now to save your M. Letting her move out may be just the "break" you both need from the mutual LBs right now. Unless you can really STOP them dead cold right now. That is possible, but it ain't easy by any means. To do it successfully, you not only need to not bring up the OM or what she may have "done" with him and all the other "obvious" things that are LBs, you also need to ignore her if she "baits" you with something that would cause you to LB, even if it's only her perception. Right now, you need to just DROP any talk of your R with your W. Only speak if you can say something nice. Ignore any effort on her part to draw you into an argument.

And, if she does move out, DO NOT LET HER TAKE THE KIDS.

Take care,
-Qfwfq

marathonman,

Not all A will end following the text book case of SAA, with WS out from the fog. I know it is very hard on ego and also very hard on LB$. To give you a glimpse of reason to keep going ... you have to understand the premesis of in-love according to MB. If you let someone to fillin ENs, no LB, spend time together and honest with you ... you will fall in-love with her (given enough amount of time). So the key in here is willing. Right now your W is not in the same place as you are in which you are willing to do it for her and of course you are longing for her to do it for you. What to do ?. Keep your guard up, absolutly NO LB !, including begging/crying/asking her about R, plan A to show her that you could changed or has been changed. Right now she is not letting you fill any of her ENs ... let it, the premesis of plan A is for you, no LB and fillin ENs as much as WS allows you too.

Dig your trenches, hunker down so if she wants to move out let her but keep plan A, no LB and fillin ENs as much as she allows you. There will be a time that she will need your help and hope you will be there to help her and there will be a time that she will be de-foged and hope you are still be there & ready to catch her.

Meanwhile you are still in 'coaster and she has the control over it. Buckle up.

-rh-

I really felt the need to jump in and give MVHO and some advice . Both from past and present experiance . Hope you don't mind .

PLan A is well in JMO the hardest thing in the world , it takes everything out of someone to look at themselves . NOT at what you think you want your WW to see or evern like . But who you like , who you want to be , and what you want to achieve for you . I DON'T mean your M I mean for you .

LB well you can read my thread I want a crown I LB at everything and focuse more on OW and WH then I think they do .

BACK to that in a min.

IN reality I think a separation for you a WW is needed , you don't see it now or maybe you do but don't want to admit it but YOU need to get away from HER .

Having her there IMVHO is not allowing you to focuse on you and also is not allowing you to get your pain out without her seeing it .

CRYING and CRAZY and LB is part of process that you can't go through in front of her .

With her gone you can PLAN A , talk to her on phone say hi and if convo gets nuts you can remove yourself easier . LIKE someone is couching me through now learning on how to not RE-ACT to my emotions . LET me tell you I have done this both ways . I ask H to leace 2 yrs ago , he said , he wanted OW I gave them our money for the APT .

With him out I was able to break down be myself flip out and he did not see a thing , when he came to pick up kids I was dressed , and nice offerd drink and what ever . YOU get it .

NOW H is home and it started all over again .

I can't PLAN A for the past 5 mon . I do it for a day even 3 or 4 then I LB .

MY H told me when he left the first time he hated my guts , thought I was $HIT , didn't love me ,
Was a fat slob and I'll tell ya I belived every word at that moment . BUT he was ahving an A .

He left and I relized I was more .

That is where you need to be right now .

YOU YOU YOU .,.................. In one respect GET SELFISH ME ME ME .

Is this healthy for me ? Am I happy ? Do I like me ? If not then find YOUR problems about you and fix them , the more focused you are on you the less you can be on them .

THIS is all so much easier said , then done I know people here want to 2x4 me all the time .

Please see really see that you must let her go in one respect , you don't have to stop loving her or give up fighting for your M , you just have to fight for YOU first .

I hope some of this was helpfull I hesitate to post some times cause I don't always practice what I preach , but when I say it it helps me to .
BE WELL and healthy and STRONG .

Q... thanks so much for that shot in the arm.. I thouught I was crazy.. these da$M psch.. have no reasoning in matters of the heart.. I am going to give it my sincere all not to LB in any way about the OM or anything she has done..Its just killing me not to say anything about a secret party shes going to saturday night.. she says that the OM is not going to be there..by the way if you look back the OM apparently called it off..but is still around her at the hospital and always will..but If she goes that will be a good break .. but now is my time to get real with myself and fix me...not worry about the M anymore and certainly not argue in any way... I really mean it thanks.. from my heart.. I am going to start praying again..you have lifted my spirits...
and If she does go I will do my best to keep the girls with me in the house..but that may turn into a real battle..
REDHAT.... thanks for the tips ..I know that the Om had served her needs well although ww say no sex ever happened.. I guess I have to believe her.. none the less I see what you are saying. It begins with absolutely no LBS.. as it stands now she will not allow me to satisfy any ENs,, any tips on some that I can slide in..she does not want hugs, kisses or any other contact.. maybe to just talk soft and listen..again my problem for the past three months has been to major LBS and yak about her andthe OM... I know she still loves him or has feelings for him.. but I have to forget about it..and let the god take over.. those are good pieces of advise ..please keep it coming..
3ISACROD. dont mind at all.. really mean it!!!
both you and you WH are the same age as me and my ww..I cant thank you .. all of you about your advise... I have to get busy fixing me and making a better MM... Mortarman should have a few 2x4s for me.. since he had been telling me this all along and I was not listening..ow i see it..If she does move out maybe a rest is what we need.. but in her eyes its alredy ended and ewnded a long time ago.. But like I said I willl get busy and focus in what my problems and solve them... it will make me better all over and if she never comes back ,,waht a catch for the next woman. As long as she is here no more LBS...only the best Da^M MM possible and try to plan A without losing it... once again to the three of you.. thanks... I needed the vote of encouragement it may have saved me.

.

It sounds like those little miracle pills (anti-d's) have finally kicked in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marathonman:
<strong> any tips on some that I can slide in..she does not want hugs, kisses or any other contact.. maybe to just talk soft and listen..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know ... just be patience. No one could live by oneself. She will come to you for help or asking small favors. That is the time to sneak in small deposit of LB$, oh LB¢ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Don't push it but be ready to "help" her when she asks you or let you. By reducing LB you make it safe for her to try.

-rh-

she sat down to talk about her meeting with her lawyer..looks likes I'm Scre%^d.. says thar we have to be seperated right now..sooner the better. That we have to make it as disruptive as posssible.. who would it be less disduptive for girls in the house.. me or her.. For F^*KS sake we know it would be easier for them.. she went on to say how she is the primary caregiver and how much she does around the house and how much I dont do...says I dont have a leg to stand on... looks like I am going to be forced out of my ouw home.. otherwise she takes the girls and leaves....again nothing I can do to stop her..needless to say.. we had another drwan out fight.. I'm sure it woke up the girls but neiher called for us.. after I sent my last post.. I was so pumped with your kind words REDHAT/Q/3ISAcrowd,,I Blew it .. she is in the process of destroying me..she knows she has got the ace... and is laughing all the eay to the bank!!!
looks like I am back to square one with no where to go!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

first things first - you cant change her, she cant change you. but you can change yourself and be responsible for yourself. what does that mean?
I could think of a number of things:
- talk to a laywer to get the basic facts covered
- insist on shared custody, at least visitation rights for several days a week
- insist on staying at home; if she wants to leave: fine.
- watch the way you communicate with her: no crying, shouting, LBing. try to ooze zen-like calm. :-)
- when you cant take it, or are on the verge of shouting/LBing/hitting - sound retreat, withdraw and go for a run instead

Take care,
N

I'll make this plain and simple:

UNLESS SHE PROVES HER WORDS WITH DEEDS, DON'T BELEIVE ANYTHING SHE TELLS YOU.

Get a grip on yourself man. She is pressing your buttons so you will leave voluntarily. If you leave, then you are screwed.

Enough said!

nick bang on.. I have spoken to my lawyer.. no matter how good of a parent she thinks she is ..if she wants to leave and take the girls..I will live with that..but I am not leaving the house..shared custody is a given no matter what.. Its hard not to LB.. but I have to stick with it no matter what she tries to throw at me..
TOO much Coffee..what do you mean by deeds .. serves me divorce PAPER..iF SO I will make her do the work...AND LET her see how hard it is.. but right now I think that she would jump over hopps to get me out of her life... only makes me wonder if the OM is still around...and waiting

For get OM or find out follow her ? If you need to know if it drives you crazy not to know then find out .

Listen everyone is different , some of need to put it in our faces but are to scared . And belive me waiting for her to be HONEST about it and come clean on her own , well is not happening and it is causeing you to LB more .

You sound so much like me . In some respects .

I waited for it to be honest , NOT I had to catch then , I had to stop being scared of the unknown and face it .

With some people the reality of thinking that there lieing and knowing they are are 2 very different thing .

I wanted to know asked all the time went crazy knew it in my gut but got no confesion . GO snooping .

Follow find simeone to follow , the thong that your doughting is weather to belive her that it has nothing to do with OM .

She wants you to think , it don't matter about him that she don't want you no matter what and there is no one . So you letting her feed you and your eating it and getting angry and douhgting your self thinking its not FOG talk .

Well maybe its not , but more then likely it is .

Prove it to YOURSELF that they are sneaking around together .Once the facts are in your hands you can stop LB over guessing .

Tackal one hurdal at a time , sit down and write a list of things you need to know for shore in your head , next to each one write down what it accomplishs , what you will do with it how you can use it to your recovery FOR yourself .

MAKE A PLAN and stop talking to her stop RE-ACTING to her . she communicates only to piss you off . SHE only talks to you about things she knows gets under your skin .

JOKE at her instead , make her think it isn't going to work .

Next time she starts a fight , say something so stupid , like ..... you know what when you yell like this it really turns me on want to fool around ............ Then laugh and walk away .

Let her know in so many ways that , she may think what you said , is stupid the same as what she is saying is to.

Well I was giving an example and wanted to make you laugh . LOL

Yes this is serious but some times humor is nessecery .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TOO much Coffee..what do you mean by deeds .. serves me divorce PAPER..iF SO I will make her do the work...AND LET her see how hard it is..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but right now I think that she would jump over hopps to get me out of her life...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh really? Has she served you with papers yet?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">only makes me wonder if the OM is still around...and waiting</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he is, you can't do anything to stop her from seeing him.

Here's an idea, is your state one of the few remaining fault divorce states where adultery is grounds for divorce?

3is crowd.. thanks..whether she has, hasn't splept with him should not matter she says she has not and if she did she would not admit it. so I will have to let it be...and start on making me better... she says is she laeves she is taking the girls.. Iam not moving out of this house,, family here or not.. no matter how disruptive to the girls lives she says it will be.. time to focus on me and get better...I like your style on the joke about hey your telling turns me on..wanna fool around.. that would really piss her off and go off the deep end..your anot a canadian eh!!.. she is just to secretive to catch her.. do I believe her when she swears she has not..I won't be able to and it will just drive me crazy so maybe best to forget it..and try to be as noce as possible..but she is set that either way we will be seperated by the end of the month...thanks I really appreacite the insight!!

Too much coffee man...
I live in canada.. no fault came in in the 70's I think its been here for a while,,, she can screww whoever she wants and there is not a da#m thinkg I can do about it .. so if she wants the D.. she does the work... i am staying out of it..by me saying that she would do anyting,, I am saying for me to allow her to have the house.. ad me move out..she has not served me papers.. I dont think she is swift enough to do such a thing,, she would not know where to start.. and the thing about the OM.. if he is waiting for her... not a da*m thing I can do about it..s he know that and she is playing it for all its worth,,,, she is telling me to go find someone to have fun with since you wont get it from me... almost time for another call to the OM wife....but she thinks he is gold..and would never do anything wrong.. Man I am dealing with a whole spaceship load of aliens...
anyway thanks TMCM.. I really apreciate your input.. keep it coming.

I