mm:

Got your helmet on?

"Just had another conversation with her about the future.."

Screw the future, mm. You can't control it any more than you can control the past. You can only control YOU. NOW.

"says that she has to get away from me..."

She probably does. RIGHT NOW. Let her. It'll do both of you good.

"does not love me..period.. does not want any future what so ever.. aside from raising the girls in seperate houses.. with me in an apartment.."

yada yada yada. Don't fret over this stuff. Let her move out. When she does, you won't have these convos and you will be able to focus on what you need to do.

"I guess what I'm trying to say is that.. by becoming the "self secure, strong, thoughtful and considerate MM in really am"..it will not change her feelings for me.."

Yes it will.

"It wont make her love me..that I know...it is in her eyes..."

It won't MAKE her do anything. It will give her something to think about. And her thinking will make her do things.

"although you have the experience behind youand believe there is a chance."

But even my sitch isn't completely resolved yet. Might not be for a long time, either.

"Q she is ready to move on..when do I decide to let it go and start looking for a new life without Mrs.MM.."

Right now! Because your life together was based on assumptions about your R that were flawed. Mine was too. I'm still learning how to be in a committed relationship and still be an individual. My W has a very hard time even now with that. Yours may too. Too many people equate being M'd with being "owned" or subjugating their own goals and desires for their spouse's. That's not what it's about.

"if we are seperated..chances of R will be slim.."

Your R will be different, which is a GOOD thing. You want to take the pressure off your W. Let her find out "who she is" or whatever it is she's doing this for. Find out who you are, while she's gone. You will have the opportunity to talk about things that relate to the kids without having to remind each other of how you pi$$ each other off. Do a "remote plan A" during this time. Don't go to plan B yet. You're not ready, like I wasn't.

"by the way I like the comment on raw meat..."

Actually, it's "Rat Meat", my nickname for my W's OM.

"it proves the point..tis may sound stupid so get the ebony out..
How do I show her that I am strong, thoughtfulstrong and considerate?? by not LBing? coaching required..."

That's how you START. But there's a whole lot more to it. It involves building your self-confidence, so that you will be happy, not just "survive" no matter what she ultimately decides to do. By being self-secure, you will be more attractive as a man, to her or to someone else if your M doesn't work out.

-Qfwfq

Q
If a seperation is in order .. which will happen I am sure eventually.. problem is . neither of us have enough cash to break out on our own.. financailly though. it would be better for me to take a settlement from my portion of the equity and move into an apartment. would it make any difference who leaves.. she will still see me as a better person if she stays or goes..Have to focus on the now.. Ive told her that I cant change the past.. I'm sorry for hurting you..but I can only change the now..so in the same light.. dont worry about the future... let God take care of that ..RIGHT!!
really got to work on building my self confidence, becoming a stronger, more secure MM..
again focus on the now.. if we seperate..either I go or she goes..show her what a better person I have become...
I can only hope while we are seperated.. she doesnt bring OM into her life.. shes gaga over him... Hope that wont prevent her from forgetting about me quickly..
thanks
I

met with psychologist this morning to talk about me..I have to deal with anger issues.. probaably routed from chilhood..and building self confidence as well as seld esteem.. I had the problem resolved with the power company.. she says she tried this morning but would not help her... I wonder how hard she really tried.. non the less I have taken control again..This whole mess is really starting to get on my nerves...I am totally to blame for not trying to stop LBing all the time and showing her a better MM.. while she has no regrets about her affair my OM..still wants to end marriage and strt new life..I am getting ready to say F^&K it and pack my bags, take a settlement and start a new life..Although I love her more than anything.. I cant wait around and let her ruin me totally.. If I am going to be a better MM and the best D^&M MM possible..it will have to be out of her sight..because ne being around her is doing me no good... I dont want to give up.. but whats the use!!!!the fat lady is getting ready to sing and the towel is in the drier waiting for the ring to be empty..
MORTARMAN/Q... This is the time if you are near to haul me out of the ditch.. because I dont know what I'm going to do next!!

marathonman:

I want Mortarman to chime in here now, too, because he's a lot further along than I am, and his sitch is more like yours than mine was.

What to do now, though? Well, try to step back and look at this whole thing, what's going on now, from as objective a viewpoint as you possibly can. If you do, I think you'll realize that you "know" what you have to do - and that is all that you can do. Meaning, keep cutting back on the lovebusting. The other things, like what she does, how she feels, how she hurts you, you can't control right now. I still think that YOU should stay put, almost at all costs, but even if you do end up deciding that you moving out is the best thing to do, just make sure that the last conversation you have with your W as you or she heads out the door is POSITIVE, UPBEAT, and LOVING. Don't let her argue with you at all. You want to leave her with a positive memory of your last convo. Eventually, when the OM starts LBing because he's pi$$ed that HE has to take care of all her ENs, she'll start remembering your good qualities.

Okay?
-Qfwfq

Q
I just made a personal commitment.. that I have to stop talking about OM .. or should I say RM..
no wore words what so ever.. its doing me no good..I am out of time so absolutely no lBing... this has to happen.. I am going to stay put as long as I can.. and show her the best MM possible.. Its going to be hard... and that is why I jsut want to give up and not prolong the agony of her and I finally splitting.. I am just hanging on hoping for the Fog to lift.. but my grasp is lossening..I know you guys must be really pissed at me for not showing any progress.. but this is one hard road and one big pill to swallow..the psch says forget it and just try to fix my problems.. says Mrs.mm is not coming back except it!!..

Mary Janes... I forgot to ask her on her stance of cognitive therapy..will do next time..
Q
On OM not being able to meet her EN... I dont think that would be a problem since they are both GAGA for each other.. once they are together.. If it actually does happebn.. my WW will be in bliss and happy as a clam..no worries abour him getting pi**ed at her!!

<small>[ April 14, 2003, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

mm:

"once they are together.. If it actually does happebn.. my WW will be in bliss and happy as a clam..no worries abour him getting pi**ed at her!!"

I hereby invoke the right to call bull$hit! OM is NOT the father of HER children, who won't be living with HER, or even if they are, won't be with her ALL THE TIME. And so, everytime you have to exchange kids or visit with them, she'll be reminded of YOU. It's during those times that you will have the opportunity to be the best you can be. But do this for YOU and your kids. Don't put her at the top of your priority list. If you take care of the other things first, the "W thang" will fall into place.

-Qfwfq

Felt the ebony 2x4.. again.. forget about the OM and just work on MM...starting to look like a very stupid MM here..cant seem to get with it all..again I have committed to not mentioning him at all..and stop LBing more and more..I have to also relax and build on that confidence..its time MM show his true self..a very confident and self assure guy.. show Mrs. MM that I can live without her just fine.. maybe ignore her a little.. dont say I love you..let her come around..in other words...give her what she wants..

Marathonman!
Man, you have GOT to get it together. Your wife fell for you once before and she will fall again. I don't know, women are something else. My situation is changing already. My wife, just like yours, was on her way out! She was supposed to be out of the house this week! I just could not take it anymore. I took a deep breath, realized that I have SO much going for me, I got a haircut, some new clothes (but I was still hurting inside to tell you the truth, but I played the role and told MYSELF that she was gone), then I told her, "I love you more than you will ever know, but what you are doing is literally killing me. I wish that you would realize that the best thing is for us to be together and that the OM is using you for a thrill, but you do not. That being the case, if you cannot stop talking to him and being so mean and nasty to me I ask that you leave and leave quickly. I need to move on." I left it at that. A woman from our church I think talked some sense in her and said that leaving your husband and children is a bold move and that she really needs to think and pray about it. On my end, I didn't talk about it anymore. I laughed with the kids, tried to be happy as I could be. Started working out again. She saw a change in me and then I started seeing a change in her. She is hugging me now before she leaves for work and a friend of hers told me that she told her she thinks we are going to work out. She is still at home and this morning she made ME breakfast. What?!?! Yesterday and today she walked around me naked. :-o Before she would go out of her WAY to make sure I didn't see some skin. Not the last two days.
Man, just be you when you were you before you met her. You are a man that she fell in love with...and decided to have three of your children!! She needs to see you how you were back then. The stud. The cool calm fine man she fell in love with. To be honest I do not even know if she is still talking to the OM. Well,I KNOW she is, but what has changed is, I don't care. I have the upper hand. She sees me everyday and she sees how our children LOVE me. The OM is nothing. Make her see that. Hang in there, Brother.

MM-

I have read through your entire thread and I'm going to tell you as a former WS that you need to stop being so insecure! Your attitude has been self defeatest and if you want this to work...YOU have to change your perspective about YOURSELF. You are probably the first person that I have given the 2x4 to on the first post. For that I am sorry. I just want for you to succeed and to do that you need a "new" way of seeing things.

Repeatedly you give up before you have even started to fight. What kind of attitude is that? Why do YOU feel so undeserving? She is the one that betrayed you...Everyone here gives you advice from their own situations....I was a WS-I'm telling you that her A WILL end. Once you believe that with all of your heart, then you can let go of your fear...This is the step that needs to happen in order for you to move forward...

I'm sorry that I was harsh, but I really want to help you get through this...

Your W's A will end!

mm:

You've said a couple of times now that your counselor has advised you to give up on your M, that "she's gone, accept it."

Let me quote from David Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage" (though any publication or therapist worth their weight in beans will say essentially the same thing:

"No therapist can tell you when it's time to leave your marriage. Therapy is not a safe route to paradise. Understanding this provides a way to select a therapist: ask what the therapist does when he or she knows a couple should divorce. If the therapist offers ANY plan of action - implicitly presupposing to know when a couple SHOULD divorce - quickly find another terapist. Therapists do not know when someone should leave a marriage."

End of discussion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Qfwfq

MM,

Listen to Kily!! She knows. She has been on the otherside. All of the statistics, all of the WSs here will tell you...the OM does not have a chance. You have a better chance at her coming home tonight and making love to you then he does with getting your wife permanently. it just is not going to happen.

Now, will the affair continue for awhile? Probably. Will they both stupidly pursue it and try to make it work? Probably.

Remember the first Gulf War? it was the Iraqis that attacked first. They drove into a small town in Saudi Arabia. It was a clear victory for them i nthose first few days.

What was the end result MM? Did our generals start panicking, just because they had taken a small town just over the border? Did they say "Oh no, it's all over. They are serious. We lost the first battle. We might as well go home." Did they? Of course not. Everyone, including the Iraqis, knew that this war could not be won by them. The odds were incredibly against them. But you know what? The Iraqis had better odds at stopping us than the OM has with getting your wife.

This is a "war," MM. Stop getting caught up in the battles. You will lose some. The "fog" of war will at times make things appear differently than they really are. Stay with your plan. Have confidence with knowing that the odds are in YOUR favor, not the OMs...no matter what your WW is saying right now. Dont listen to the naysayers. If your therapist says give up...fire him! Get another "general" to work for you. One that believes in the plan.

I cannot say it enough. And everyone here is right on with their advice. Your situation is very similar to mine. Or what used to be mine. Listen to Kily. She is your wife...after th fog lifts. She KNOWS what your wife is doing, what she is feeling. She knows what will work and what wont work.

MM, stop worrying about the day-to-day. Stop letting the fog influence you. Internally, laugh at your WW when she tells you these crazy things. It is as if she is walking in and saying "I am very serious...I am going outside and jumping as hard as I can so I can land on the moon." Would you take that seriously? Of course not. Would she go out and try? Probably...remember, she was serious. But serious does not make it so. She may be sincere, but she is sincerely wrong. The odds are not in her favor to land on Tranquility Base...and they are not in her favor to end up with the OM...or even be divorced from you.

Trust the plan. Trust yourself.

In His arms.

SOLON
I am glad that things seem to be turning for you and your wife.. but I think it will be a while before my wife does the same..the difference is that if she moves out she will take the girls..I will try to stop her but there will be a battle.
My committment then is to stop talking about the OM completely..forget him.. she says that it is obver.. he called it off... as you I have to realize that I have a lot going for me and will be fine either way.. I tell her constantly that I love her.. but it seems to be getting on her nerves... so on that I will back off... as for hugs.. or her letting me see her naked.. well that will also be a while..just back off and be calm..

KILY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
thats the first happy face I have given here...so you are special..
I felt the 2x4 .. maybe one of Q's ebony ones..
I am seeing a Psych as you know and hope to work on the self esteem/confidence bit..not sure why I feel so undeserving..maybe comes from a lot of s&^t from my past vand her saying I dont love you anymore... really pains..maybe you even said it to your H...My freinds and family tell me to give upand that she is'nt coming back gosh even Mrs.MM says.. let it go.. it will evenbe harder when we finally seperate.. But I truly beleive that there is hope..I feel it in my heart..again the A is over as far as Mrs. MM says.. I asked her how she feels that he called it off.. and she says a lttle angry...she still wil be working closely with him.. its hard to let go of everything ,, but for my sanity I have to.. m,aybe letting go will ease everything a great deal and let me start building a new R with her..No probs about the words.. they were totally justifiable and well deserved.. any tips to build self esteem and confidence..I know I can do this .. if Mrs.MM doesnt come back.. I'l still love her but I will be better for someone else.. I AM NOT GIVING UP!!! on this woman...she is a good person at heart.. just a sH^t load of hurt...
KILY... thanks again for your honesty sure appreciate you checking in on me..

Q
And now my friend with the ebony 2x4..
This has been my problem all along.. who in the H#ll do they think they are..some of them that is...the last one when we were first going to MC.. was a dead loss and that is why I was not sold..
The angle I have with the Psych is not to get back with mrs MM but to make me a better person..
In my eyes there is no fat lady in sight.. and if she is anywhere near, I dont hear her singing..and if she does show up I'm sure she wont be able to sing for beans...
I will say when to throw in the towel.. I am not giving up.. time to stop all this S=%T I am throwing around and get with it... my next post will be so upbeat.. I promise you..
Thanks to you all Q.. thanks for the shot and KILY..thanks for taking your time to drop by it really means alot to me...
Cheers
I

MM - just wanted to drop in I have posted a couple of times to you and want to let you know , I am in a $HIT situation , BUT I am very determined to see it through .

I have told you that I had a hard time sticking to PLAN A and I mean hard . MY H can push my buttons even in nice was to get me to LB .

Self-estem NONE I was sot down in every direction .

What I am saying is look yourself in the mirror and pick your self up .
YOU can be strong , you can dodge bullits, and you can find the you ,YOU want to be , THE YOU that she will see .

DO NOT TALK THE TALK - WALK THE WALK !!!!!!!

I mean it , be determined and strong for you and your girls know what you want andf GO FOR IT , let nothing she says NOTHING affect you .

SHE says I don't love you , say I love you .
She says give it up its over , say give up on the love of my life no not today I love you babe .

I may get hit here but one day at a time , PLAY A game in your head if you have to .PRETEND she is a roommate with bad attitude and your trying to get to know her for the first time . Avoid when you don't want to be bothered and try little things that won't hurt so bad if she says no .

If you 2 are home and doing nothing get out the cards , want to play rummy ? she says no say ok just was board I 'll play solitare its ok .

GET what I am saying go for a run and think of some things that can be done together small things weird and fun things that would catch her off gaurd . Also think of things to do for you .

Things that when she is around that she sees you interested in that you are not consumed with HER .

I am rambling having a bit of energy , to much coffee today. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Check ya later !

MORTARMAN
Sorry I missed your post...Mrs. MM said today again today that the OM called it off...I asked her how she felt about that and said not good...left a little in her ear about what happens if he says he wants to try something in a few months.. said she will deal with it then.. what a niave woman.. he does it once he'll do it again... who was it here that said she will find that "her handsome prince is just a pathetic frog"?
anyhow..with Kilys advise and I really hope the advise from kily as a former WW.. keeps coming!!!!! her advise of letting go of the fear of the OM.. Mary janes advise of shutting up .. all the amazing advise from both you and Q continually telling me to relax and focus on being a better MM...it finally is setting in.. tonight No LBs as of yet .. we are actually talking and laughing with each other..I know at this time she stillwants out .. but I am going to show her a better MM..
I will be working on that confidence thing.. firstly for me...she has not left so there is still time..maybe until the end of may now to show her what she could be missing.. Little by little I will have her falling back in love with me..and to show her that I am the best man for her to be with and spend the restof her life with.
letting go is like having a huge weight taken off my shoulders.. I just hope for now things dont start up again with her and OM..
you are always there at the right time.. thanks for being a friend...
I will trust in myself to do a good plan A and build a better MM and trust that God will bring us back together.. he wont let me down..
Once again Thanks..
I

3isacrowd
I have to go to put the girls to bed so I am going to be quick..
Both you and I have to work on our self esteem..
looking in that mirror and finding that amzing person in us will get us on our way.. the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.. almost like running that marathon...
I really like the tips on responding to her..with the I love you... finding things to do together.. looks like a lot of solitaire for me.. I asked her on the weekend tosit and watch a movie.. wasnt even interested in that..
will try those little things and see where it gets me.. its worth a shot.. and at the same time treat her like a roomamte..
Thanks for checking in on me.. please keep the advise coming..I sincerely appreeciate it!!
cheers!!
I

MM-

I'm honored that you WANT my input. I'm always willing to throw my $1 in....

Just to give you some perspective...

If the shoe was on the oppostie foot and you were the ine that left...would you be interested in someone that was clinging to you like a child? (no)

Would you be attracted to someone that seemed in control, happy, non-demanding, and mysterious?

That is WHERE plan-a, faith, and trust will get you to...

Just believe in your goal, set your mind to it, make a plan, set up some sort of measure, and we will help you get there.

How are things today?

KILY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Thanks for dropping by.. last nigt I lived up to my committment of forgetinga bout and dropping the OM altogether..its seems as if a huge burden is lifted.. I can no start fixing me.. I was so preoccupied and wasted a S%%T load of time when I could have been focusing on making a better MM..
Had a very good run today at lunch time and actually had one of my customers ( a woman) who knows my story ,; tell me that I was looking good and the smile was back on my face..
I am also committed to stop wimpering around her and making me better..showing her a happy man that is in control and Mysterious??? please tips on that..
On a down note she did say this morning again it is over and she wants the marriage to end..she does not want to go on..In your eyes.. how do I proceed??? I am not giving up.. I do love her...
I will work hard on the faith and trust that things will work out... I sincerly want to thank you for your perspectie.. having you here is giving me a side and the ray of hope I need..
keep the suggestions coming..
once again thanks..and to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On a down note she did say this morning again it is over and she wants the marriage to end..she does not want to go on..In your eyes.. how do I proceed??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You think to yourself, "Ah ha! It's the alien again! Weird how that keeps happening." Do you say that? Well, no. You say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm committed to our relationship."

And then you go for your run, you get a cup of coffee, you plant flowers, or you do some work that you need to do, and you go on with your day.

J of HJK , hit on the thing BS need a ONE LINER manual .

Good morning , I want out of marriage
Good morning , I want to be commited to our M

I don't want to be with you
I love you

This M is over get over it
Yes , the old M is over and lets leave it in the past and start a new

Get it negitive = positive
You need to not understand her cause , we have not yet advanced to understand aliens science is still studing them LOL

You will be fine continue to here BLA BLA BLA from her if you here anything else go for a RUN there trying to Abduct you onto there ship .

CHEER UP everyday gets better , you will get stronger and keep in mind she STILL has not left .

SHE talks and talks but what she is cripple can't walk .

I am not saying she won't but my odds are on the fact she wants to make you miserable to be the one to leave . Don't engage in the game .
GET any other hobbies yet (besides running)
Something to do when your stuck at home with her besides solitar LOL
MODELS , I don't know paper air planes LOL

BE STRONG .LAUGH alittle at least once a day ok

J &3ISACROWD

The one liners are great and I have actually been using them..She has left with the girls to spend the weekend with her parents..so I cant practise..She must be from some very distant planet .. since when I tell het that I cant change the past.. I can only give you a better future.. all she says is that she has no love for me.. empty .. ziltch.. da nada..how do I come back to that.. come h*ll or high water she says we will be seperated by the end of May now..buts this has been going on for a few months.. big money probs are keeping us together..She has though long and hard and is set thatv there is no futuer.. I am trying to be the best MM .. what is there left to say.. that she has not already heard?
she most definitely is trying to make things miserable and I am actually considering leaving.. it would be better off and with the settlement from the house equity I'll be able to afford child supprt if it comes to that.. otherwise I stay in the house and I will be bankrupt abnd lose the house.. either way she has got me by the B*LLS. This is just to frustarting/.. maybe the weekend will give her a chance to think.. but I am afriad it will come to pass that .. when she comes home on monday that..she'll be more set in her ways..

<small>[ April 17, 2003, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>