</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On a down note she did say this morning again it is over and she wants the marriage to end..she does not want to go on..In your eyes.. how do I proceed??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just think to yourself:
W- That marriage is already over...when will the new one start?

Then smile and say:
Godd morning, would you like eggs with that?

KILY
What are you trying to tell me here.. she does not want a new one to start.. she does not want to give me the chance ton show her.. that I can treat her like gold..Am I suppose to be ignoring her and just being the best MM I possibly can??
I am preety numb when it comes to understanding women..what do I do with Mrs. MM who says there is no love left .. no chances.. no hope.???

MM-

I was simply thinking that the marriage that made her unhappy is no longer there. You are now aware and willing to do things to change your part in what contributed to the problems.

Once someone has seen their issues, they will no longer approach the problem with the same attitudes. Basically it wasn't working with that method, what can I do differently to make it work.

I was just alluding to that fact and trying to present to you that in your mind the "new" marriage will be the one that you both openly committ to building together.

Hope this clarified things a little.

mm:

Do what 3 and kily are suggesting, but don't feel like you have to say ANYTHING to do it.

It's time for actions. When she says hurtful things to you, say nothing back. She's trying to bait you into a "revisionist historian" argument. Don't let her.

Make that breakfast, plant those flowers, raise the ceiling 3 inches (I ripped that off Tim Allen). Whatever it takes to keep your mind on positive things, and show her what a positive, loving guy you can be.

-Qfwfq

KILY/Q
basically what is being said here is actions speak louder than words.. show her a better MM.. when she comes home next week..althogh it looks like an official seperation will happen by the end of May..I will try my best.
Kily.. try as I might.. she is still headed and on her way down the one way street and is not looking back..whenb she does see me .. she will see a diffrent MM and hopefully open her eyes.. ut as a WW.. when do I do I give up the ghost.. when do I say okay there is no way this is going to work? I dont want to chase something that is impossible..

MM-

Let me give you the WP perspective on things....

She is running away from her problems. She is running to excitement and glamor like a kid runs to the presents on Christmas morning. The OM doesn't have to work at an R because she is accepting EVERYTHING without question. This is for a variety of reasons, but mainly she is hooked on the "high" feelings that the A produce. This is from the chemical infatuation.

At SOME point, the high goes away! Usually between 6 and 8 months after the start of the R. Once this happens, the WS starts to see things differently. The OM can't fil her EN's because HE doesn't know what they are. Unless he is ONE heck of a guy, and were talking about a sleazeball that messes around with married women here, she will start to MISS the life she had with you.

Now, you asked me about being mysterious...well, imagine that your wife is starting to have doubts and she looks your way...what will she be seeing?

She will expect to see the person that she left exactly as she left him....needing her, willing to accept anything. What she will find instead is someone she doesn't know. YOU will be completely confident, self-reliant, non-demanding, and maybe even a little COLD towards her.....she will start to wonder why, and where the changes came from, and if there might be someone else that caught YOUR eye.....thus the mystery.

Get the idea?

KILY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Thanks to You/ Q/ Mortarman/3isacrowd
and especially you as a WS.. here is a cyber hug..
This "Rat meat".. if I can so humbly use the word.. is just using her. she is all gaga over this guy.. they sauy they are each others best friend andhas been for a few years.. she may open her eyes done down the road.. and when she does it will be a better MM that has moved on... I have to work on the self esteem and confidence though..thanks fpr the advise... keep it coming.. I will have the weekend to do some soul searching.. I do believe I will end up moving out into my own place.. and start a new life.. whey disrupt the girls..they would be happier with their mother... why deny them that.. Its time for me to get on with life and become stronger.. and if the OM decides that he wants to start something with Mrs.MM again .. maybe she will open her eyes and think twice.. again he called it off... so she says and wants to stay with his kids..Mrs. MM got dumped.. unless this is one big lie that have made up .. she would be very foolish to get suckered in again..but as you say the emotions are there for her..

MM-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do believe I will end up moving out into my own place.. and start a new life.. whey disrupt the girls..they would be happier with their mother... why deny them that </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me get out that 2x4!!! Get ready because here it comes!!!

Your children have already been hurt by their mom's betrayal.....Do NOT leave them!!! It will DESTROY them. Trust me, I grew up longing for my dad, my self esteem and self image were blown to he!! because there wasn't a positive male role model in my life......now at least I have JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stop giving up! The first thing you need to do is FIGURE out what YOU want! You are on a fence too. Get off of it and let's get a plan together here.

DO NOT MOVE, and DO NOT leave those innocent kids.

KILY
okay I'm off the fence... I have told her that I am not leaving the house,,I am not giving up on my family annd my girls...therefore the past three weeks she has been looking for an apartment.. and her lawyer says not to worry the girls will be going with her..even my lawyer has told me that no matter how great a father I am the courts will usually give custody to the mother..I keep on telling her that what she is doing will destroy the girls.. but she says they wil be just fine.. out of a house with no stress,,,a mother that is happy.. with or without.. rat meat.. sorry Q.. had to use it..Kily ist just makes me so sad to see what she is doing and will not open her eyes to listen.. major fog eh!.. the EH! is a Canadian thing!!
so what next?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

mm:

Work on the visitation if there truly is no way to prevent your W from taking the kids with her. Work with your lawyer. See if you can insure that OM can't visit while the kids are with her.

My bet is that life with her will not be all peaches and cream, but a lot of bitter pits. On the plus side, such as it is, you will have the opportunity to be upbeat whenever you're around the kids, and especially around your W.

Hang in there,
-Qfwfq

Q
she is not gone yet.. and she will most likely be here until the end of may and that may even push ahead.. .if the OM decides that he wants to come back to her after calling it quits, then either she is very gulible or very stupid..this RAT MEAT as you say is pathetic. and using my wife.., if his wife knew what he did. she woulfd have his B#lls cut off...even though they have been best friends for some time.. she now says that things are a little awkward..I will deal with her leaving when it happens.. but before I will talk to my lawyer to see if it would matter if I leave and let the girls stay in the house with their mother.. I am sure that before anything happens .. visitation will be ironed out!! mean while..its still plan A.. no talk of OM and being the best MM possible to the girls and their mother...her eyes will eventually open.

<small>[ April 17, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

MM,
What state are you in? Redhat has 2 daughters of which is the one with custody. He has shared custody but he is the primary custodian parent.

Check out if your getting your children into counseling and see if that can be used in your favor to help you keep custody of the children.

Indy is another father that has his 2 children and they are 4 & 8.

You have options. Identify them and use them wisely.

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marathonman:
<strong>.... even my lawyer has told me that no matter how great a father I am the courts will usually give custody to the mother ... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which state are you in ?. Even in CA I got them 50-50 and actually I could push for more in the begining but I made mistake to let it. How to do it ? ... This is redhat's way ... before D-day I work my butt off and I attend my kids practice but Sat+Sun+Holiday I worked fixing the apartment that we own, I work like a dog and active father too !. Right away I know what I have to do ... I drop fixing apartment, involve in every practice, join them to get groceries w/ 2 D, join every field trip and rearrange my schedule to fit my 2 D practice so that I could be at home before they are leaving home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . It has 2 edges, I maximized contact in my plan A, I make sure there is no such thing as "her schedule w/ 2 D". I focus on 2 D. By the time she filed ... 6 months later ... 1. Her A is full blown and she wants to be with OM at all time ... Do I hear abondenment ?. 2. I am the primary care giver by then since she didn't want to be around me. 3. When she filed the judge always give temporary order not to change anything <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

I am a bit lucky since I live in San Mateo County, the judge never want to rule on his/her own about the children. FCS (family court service) is always called for to determine the custody and act as mediator. The judge will take their recomendation very highly. All I have to say is "to have it the way it is" for the stabilities of my 2 D. I got 70-30, I could push for more actually and put more provision but I was in between plan A/B ... the bigest mistake, I should go for the full custody and give her visitation right only, I have my chance - she disappear for 13 days, 1 day short for me legally filing for abandonment. The FCS actually has mercy on her. Also second mistake I agree to 50-50 for the summer since I know I would have a bit problem, this become permanent custody.

You see MM, everyone tell me about the same thing ... even my WW told me that "In the animal kingdom, the offsprings stay with their mother". Now, I am gladly replied "In the animal kingdom, the mother never abandon their youngs". You know what you want and go for it and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you loose at least you could say I did everything humanly possible and have no regret. MM, I don't know what runners say to each others on the starting line but I know it won't be pumping your confident <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . You WW are as arrogant as my ExW about CC, you lawyers & hers say the same thing as mine ... don't say a word, focus on D and find excuses to become primary care giver. She won't know what hit her later.

It was very hard but I bit my tounge and just imagine my girls around OM as dad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ... I would let him compete with me. You can't control your WW but you can control yourself to save your D. What type of example she would give her in the current mind ?. You are more fit than her in the la la land !. You could let her get more custody when she is out of fog !.

-rh-

Orchid/redhat
I am in Canada.. but I would imagine that the laws are going to be much the same..I think what I'll do is sit down with my lawyer and discuss a CC plan..Having me as primary caregiver will upset the girls..since they will be away from their mom.My problem is with the OM ever moving in..as she says he called it off so he would not lolse contact with his kids...what an [censored].. and Mrs. MM cannot see it! tjhat may not be an issue..
I guess for know.. I am going to continue on with trying to win her back..I know Its a long process but I have nothing to lose..
KILY
Give me some more input.. advise..tips that may help me in my quest!!
Thanks guys!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marathonman:
<strong> ... Having me as primary caregiver will upset the girls..since they will be away from their mom.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't say "primary giver", I would start join them to school, picking them up, and so on ... with your WW. It is up to her to let it go. If she does loose in the court down the road, she still could visit them or even get partial custody. You would be surprise what your D will say and react when you are around her and take care of them. They will enjoy it. I am not sexist but this is a reality, Keep in mind women don't need to do anything to get coustody but we need to work our butt off to just get 50% ... it is the sad. Q: does your D know about the A ?. How is your WW treat your D ?. I don't think she is WW #1 priority. If she ask just let her know you want to be with your D as much as you can. She will eventually drop out of sight, specially if A is still there. If she is not It is more time for you to show your plan A. Either way, you make sure that your D get taken care of.

If you are determmine to do it, I would also make sure that you get family therapist to mediate your CC and wrote recomendation to the court. Your D might even get evaluated for custody. CC mediation by FCS is an automatic court order in the county where I live.

-rh-

daughers dont know about the A or OM...you know he may be temporarily or out of picture...but I am not sure.. wife says he is...but I am not sure..
This RAT MEAT..is a pathetic [censored] who was using my wife.. none the less.. Daugters love their mom and I dont want to hurt her..all I want is equal access and not be denied..If a seperation does happen.. I wil push for best deal for all..
But that really is not what I am trying to do right now.. what I want is to save and start a new marriage..with Mrs.MM.. I hope Kily is around to lend a hand and help me bring my wife back... I have not heard much from Mortarman...hope all is well.. he has also been a great help..
Mrs.MM will be back on monday.. she will be seeing a very happy MM..trying to build the confidence thing..
Thansk for the insight.. I will be talking to my laywer next week..concerning the CC..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marathonman:
<strong>... Daugters love their mom and I dont want to hurt her..all I want is equal access and not be denied..If a seperation does happen.. I wil push for best deal for all..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Their mom unable to love them at this point, they will get hurt regardless. By you putting more emphasis on their life, they will enjoy it, gurantee. This is the kicker, you have to do what I describe to you just to get equal access !, I mean 50-50 custody ! not visitation right only. There is more pluses actually doing it since mrs. MM will see you as a new man comitted to the family <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Let us know on Monday. -rh-

I dont think that is going to be a problem..50/50..I will let you know once I have a chance to talk to my lawyer..
Was out last night with a friend and met someone who grew up with OM.. My gut feeling is right.. OM is a major scumbag..cant get into details.. but my wife was succered in big time..if she only knew..what he is really like hed be a goner..but what she is in..is most definitely FOG... when it clears.. what an opener she is in for..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marathonman:
<strong>I dont think that is going to be a problem..50/50..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">File for full custody, dig the OM's past, throw any dirt you can. Negotiate it from there.

-rh-

REDHAT
My wife says that he called it off.. if it is true, then it is a non issue.. but on the other hand I do not trust that it is completely over..
I really dont want to get into custody with my wife..until it is absolutely necessary...What I need to do is focus as hard as I can on saving and rebuilding a new marriage with my wife.. maybe it is hopeless to think that I can help her fall back in love with me.. but first I have to continue to show her a strong MM.. I do appreciate the insigt on custody and will ask for input from my lawyer on which way she feels I should proceed.. I will start with full..when the time comes... But now.. Making the best MM..
Mortarman... I really hope your not displeased with me...you have given me some ggod advise and I am trying my best to follow..
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />