marathonman,

Nope, I understood you well. However when it is the time, don't based your CC on rebuilding M or any hope of M. I just want to make sure that you separate the two issues ...

In MB, if you willing to do 4 gifts of love and she lets you do it for her, she would fall in-love again.

Hope next week will be a better week for you.

-rh-

Redhat
What do you mean by 4 gifts of love?
because if I'm missing something I could be doing.. I sure would like to know.. I do love Mrs MM very much and would do anything to help her fall in love with me again..I know I cannt make her but showing her a confident MM.. who is happy may swing her back...just a hope I have...she has to realize that this OM is rat meat that is taking advantage of her.. using her..and maybe her eyes will open some day to see what she lost in MM..
KILY MORTARMAN if you are around sure could use some input.. I am all alone and need some uplifting advise..

marathonman

Sorry for being busy plastering walls and planting bunny eggs thsi weekend. You're in good hands with redhat, though! One of the MB greats!

I think it's going to be your salvation that you are here and you care about your W the way you do. I just heard from a friend of mine at work yesterday afternoon, that he and his W of THIRTY YEARS have decided to DV! No A. She just got angrier and angrier over the past 10 years. They've been sleeping in separate rooms for 10 years, too. It's hard to imagine a M of 30 years just ending like that. Very sad.

Then the Laci Peterson story. Man, what's with that guy??? My W watched the news conferences last night together. It was an odd feeling.

Please have a good bunny day, okay???

-Qfwfq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marathonman:
<strong>Redhat
What do you mean by 4 gifts of love?
because if I'm missing something I could be doing.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are doing fine MM but a bit patience and breath slowly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . 4 gifts of love are the essence of MB. It is care (filling ENs), protect (avoid LB at all cost), time (undivided attention), and radical honesty. What you are doing right now is plan A where you negotiate through your actions. Review your plan A by trying to remember what WW said/complaint about you in M before D-day and through our the ordeal 'till now. Some of them are justifications; you could ignore them and some are real plan A material; you have to draw a plan of actions to show your WW that you are a change man or are capable of change. For example, by going to join child rearing should show something specially if she feel that you weren't carry part of your burden. Also you already know that you should avoid LB and R talk and let her bring it up. You don't need to roll out red carpet yet you shouldn't give any impression of "punishing" her either. Just think what MM needs to recover this M (ammends). Be honest to yourself and don't think about she would only if she could (humanly possible). This is crucial for the recovery of your M. Yes, you need to let her know what you beleive in and your M could be recover but the path to recovery is very hard and need work. If she is still in deep fog, don't argue or LB !. We made the condition/ situation for A to occur, we are ready to fix it ... but does she willing to work on M ?. Be honest and admit/appologize for the parts that you have done and tell her how you are going to fixing it or had fix it. However don't take the excuse, just say to her that you understand her but you don't agree with it and move to next conversation.

What do you have for your girls ?, I made basket bunny filled with candy & chocolate eggs. I gave them this morning before I left them at the rink since my exW will be there soon afterward.

Qfwfq Watching Scott Peterson gave me a creep since the beginning. He will be tried for death penalty here, more than 1 victim and the court count the fetus as a human being. I hope the police found the weight on the bottom on marina, it would be slam dunk case and save tax payer money on this b@st@rd.

-rh-

REDHAT
I have been alone in house since thursday.WW took 2D to visit her parents..so I missed spending easter with my girls..I am so sad!!
With any gifts of love I feel she will have her eyes closed to. I know that the road to recovedry is very very long, but this is very quickly becoming a pipe dream..Everyone is telling me not to give up.. but there is no sign of coming out of the fOG,, even though she says RATMEAT called it off.. I have a gut feeling she is LYING!!!
Just by her actions..very strange!! she is coming home tommorrow..driving approx 7 hours....will be home just intime for supper and then going to a belly dancing class...hardly.. guess Im just venting here..
I will try to continue on with plan A.. but my heart is so broken.. I really do not know what to do!!

mm:

CALL YOUR DAUGHTERS!!!

Call them and talk to them about what they're doing for Easter. THEN, talk to your MIL and even your W if she will let you. Be upbeat. Happy Easter stuff. No LBs. No R talk.

Okay? But it's important to EVERYONE that you call and talk to your kids.

For our 27th anniversary, just after Xmas, I took my W to a nice historic hotel. We had just had a couple of our worst arguments (yep, ol' Qfwfq was still LBing after 11 months since D-day!!) and I wasn't sure I even wanted to do anything. My W hadn't planned anything, and she didn't say much in response when I told her about the reservation, which had me down a little. But we ended up having a good time. I guess the point of all this is that whatever you do today will be remembered. If you do nothing, it will be held against you. If you call and make the effort, you might not see any results from doing it, but in months or years to come, it will matter... ...possibly even a LOT.

Please take care,
-Qfwfq

Q
I did call and speak to the girls..they were pretty upbeat about easter..pretty excited..I will be great to see them tommorrow afternoon. I do miss them so much..On the LB side with their Mother..had a LB session..not sure what she has told her parents, but they seem very cold to me at this time.. they use to be so lovable..almost like they have started to hate me...I told my W about the info that I learned about the OM..she seemed upset that I was speaking to people about her..none the less.. I wil not be speaking to her when she gets home.. minimal talk.. just yse and No answers...although very good and upbeat to the girls...

MM-

I'll comment tomorrow.

Hang in there...

I think after this weekend alone..I am strting to accept the M may be over..it will be interesting to see what she has to say after talking with her parents. Most likely they are very supportive of her decisions.. not trying to find a way to save a family..Her eyes are so shut and full of FOG that she does not realize what kind of [censored] OM really is and it is a shame. I feel bad for her..the man she should be with is by her side and when things fall apart with OM..she'll wake up to see that I was not a bad H afetr all.. guess what I'm trying to say is that.. this is about making a better MM for my 2d and me..become stronger and more confident..KILY any tips!!

mm:

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor??" -John Belushi, "Animal House"

It's not over, MM. Keep doing what you're doing. Her family probably doesn't have the true story. And she is their D. It's not surprising they're on her side, or seem to be.

Keep hanging in there. You are doing pretty well!

-Qfwfq

Q
There are two sides tp every story .. your right!
thats why I feel she had the weekend to tell her parents everything except the info on the affair with Ratmeat.. if I can so humbly use the term..
Only gave her more time to stew and think that she is doing the right thing.. She will be back this evening..and I will do my best not to LB ..but the info I got on the weekend is sure to come up and out..should I try to get her to give me all details of this A or should I let it go and try to forget about it?

I AM CONCERNED!!!
There is a new memeber checking out my board.. JENNY8675309!!
I think it may be the OM...Jenny why have you not posted anything???? Jenny are you raelly "T.P" or should I say RATMEAT!!

mm:

Do you have any particular reason for thinking this jenny8675309 might be someone you know? (Cute login name, by the way - Steeley Dan song).

Before you answer that, just know that I had a concern like this too last summer. Seems a new user that hadn't posted was interested in posts of mine that were a few months old. I got concerned because her name was the same as a gal that could have been the OM's W's sister. It took me a couple of months to find out that she probably wasn't. Then, just a month ago, she finally posted her story, and it was obvious she didn't have anything to do with the players in my sitch.

So, think about this, and be careful. If you have reasons you want to talk about, but not on this forum, email me at the address below.

-ol' Qfwfq

MM, please don't be concerned about me. I'm a MB lurker, also a BS, who has been keeping track of posters who have similar stories to my own. Many of the people who have responded to you have indirectly provided me w/ invaluable advice. Your threads (w/ Mortarman's replies) were linked into a response to another BH's thread. I'm a friend--not Rat Meat, okay!?!

What make you she is connected to you ? phone# ?. Either way, if it is your W it is for the better since she might learn something here. If it is RATMEAT you have nothing to hide, let him compete with your love for W.

Anyway, when W is back ... don't talk about R unless she brings it up, let her starts and you have to listen.. Don't pressure her to do anything ... take one step at a time. However you have to be ready with ammends for MM, it is not to punish her but what would MM needs to recover this M and to trust W again.

-rh-

Q
Thanks bud!! really appreciate it..my WW wil be back tonite and i will be confronting her about this.. after a long day of travelling.. she has intentions of gooing to her belly dancing class.. I am sure she is set to meet up with RATMEAT..the last thing I want to do after be couped up in a car all day is to go dancing.. she is so pathetic.

mm:

Just don't JUDGE HER. Let her go if she wants to go. Think about other things. Particularly don't worry about who she may be going to meet. Contemplate your navel if you have to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Welcome Jenny! See, mm? It's easy to let our imaginations get out of control! (I know mine can!).

-Qfwfq

JENNY!!
please accept my apologies.. just getting really spooked there.. I hope all the info here iis helping you.. All these guys and gals are amazing...good thing they all have a piexce of 2x4 handy since they have to pound things into my head..If you are in the same boat , I wish ypu well because no one should have to go through all this S^^T. Take care..and again my apologies..

REDHAT
after learning so much about RATMEAT this weekend..its going to be so hard no to say a word..to my WW..I think the main thing she wil bring up is how soon can we get apart..and let her start a new life.. I have to build a better MM..biting my tongue will be a start...RIGHT MARY JANES!!!! I would be very suprized if she comes back and wants to try to make things work..
anyhow.. thanks for the advise.. sure appreciate your input!!

Q
thanks for the smack in the head...if she is going to see RATMEAT..I cannot change it..but she does enjoy her belly dancing... if that is actually what she does when she goes out.. Its her exercise night and she pays enough for it.. so your rigt let her go!!

<small>[ April 21, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

Hey MarM (as opposed to MorM for MortarMan),

I saw my name used in vain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> so I thought I would jump in.

How have you been working on yourself? How is the counseling going? I saw that you were going to ask about cognitive therapy but haven't seen an update.

Did I give you the Emotional Needs URL? If not here it is:

EN Questionnaire

Now, instead of a 2x4, here is a swift kick in the rump. Go get the questionnaire. Fill it out as yourself. Ask wife to take it; if she won't, you do it for her answering for her as best you can. Find an EN of hers (one of her top 5) and start to meet it. Then come back. Tell us your top 5 and then tell us her top 5. Please consider this an assignment. How about that anger management that either your counselor or someone on this site mentioned. Done any reading/work on that? "The plan works if you work it and you are worth it."

Look, I know how much the physical betrayal can tear your mind apart, but you have got to pull yourself together. I am not trying to be the gal with an amputation who goes to the hangnail support group to tell them how lucky they are. In other words, I am not trying to invalidate nor take away your pain. Please realise that most of us here have lived through it already. I understand that that aspect is harder for men than for women, but MorM, Q, RedHat, many men on this site have survivded it. It feels awful, but it will not kill you (unless you let it). If she sleeps with him, if she already has, marriage is still recoverable. Let that part of it go; most affairs aren't really about the sex, anyway. The sex is the result of the emotional connection our spouses make with another. Hell, my H did "it" for 7 years and only stopped when they got the shock of a pregnancy. Now I have a step-daughter and I have always been infertile--born without a womb. It took awile, a long time to be honest, but I am so over it, that it is old news. (Mr. J's stuck on his guilt and still in turmoil about his A, but I ain't.)

So I did all the "wasn't I good enough?" stuff until I realised his A had much more to say about him than it would ever have anything to say about me. See? This is about her--her awful coping skills, her fog, her insecurity, her screwed-up childhood, whatever. It is HER fog, HER FOG HER FOG. You don't own her fog, you can't (directly) make it go away, especially not by LBing.

Biggest word here at MBers is "plan." So what's your plan? It sounds as if you haven't read all the material on this site. The Harleys practically give it all away for free on this web site. Have you ordered a cognitive therapy book? Have you done the homework your counselor should have assigned you for this week? If not, why not? Go read---TODAY. Instead of having another argument with her, go do something TODAY that may change your life.

In peace (honestly),
MJ

Hi MM,

No need to apologize…but thanks for it anyway. I understand where it comes from. My own not knowing what the OW looks like has me peering into every car that drives by my house (a habit she’s taken up since NC). Also into the face of every woman of a certain age that fits my WH’s description of her. Can be crazy making.

Your friends here at MB are helping me a lot. Thanks for sharing them!

Qfwfq

Thanks for the welcome! I’ve been lurking a while and your advice to MM and others hasn’t stopped with them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> (Cute login name, by the way - Steeley Dan song). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the cute---small correction: it was that one hit wonder Tommy 2 Tone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />