<small>[ June 16, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Good job Mimi!!! He will now be getting curious about what is going on in your mind....Tell him nothing.. let him wonder...

It drives a man crazy when a woman becomes "unavailable".. you are showing confidence and self respect, and this is what men respond to......

When he does talk to you and tries to find out if you will take him back you HAVE to tell him that you are not sure what you want.. that maybe this was for the best...(in other words, do and say the things the WS does because they are the things that get people to pursue.)

I have helped many women get their men back... Trust me... What you are doing works the best of anything to get them to come around... Do not take him back easily.. He needs to wonder if he has lost you and maybe made a mistake...

MB is not about playing head games. It's not about making him wonder if he lost you or not.

While separated in Plan B, you don't date, you don't even give the appearance of dating. You are married and that's what you tell people.

He should KNOW what he needs to do to discuss POSSIBLE reconciliation. It was in your Plan B letter. If he won't end the affair, then you don't even discuss reconciliation.

Do not forget to hang up first if he does get you on the phone.. Just be business like, do some small talk, get on to the matter he called about, then tell him you have to go.....
Plan B is no communication, especially no small talk.

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Mimi,
I wonder if you would send me via email and I will tell you about my WS,and I KNOW exactly what you are going through.I am unable to go on MB as often as I wish, I hardly post but I read them. Please write and I will be completely open and honest to you about the pain I had gone through and still going through, OK. I promised.
wangiaja@yahoo.com
Wangi

Well done Mimi

Let me echo some of what has been said already. Plan B isn't about playing mind games. However, a side effect of it is that WS will miss you and wonder what you are doing. You are seeing the evidence of this now. Remember that the opposite of love is apathy - he is anything but apathetic. In fact he is almost obsessed with contacting/conversing with you. At one level he probably wants you to LB him so he can be 'validated' in his appalling behaviour. At a deeper level he wants to know if you still love him. For my money the kicker with plan B is that your plan B letter (and your plan A behaviour) show unequivocally that you love him. However, your plan B behaviour forces him to chose to accept this love on your (perfectly reasonable!) condition that it exclusive to you and OW is out of the picture. Right now he is following the script (as he was before), but now you are in the directors chair, not him! His interest says to me that his next step will be to get depressed about what he has lost. Sooner or later he will look again at the plan B letter (bet that he has done this MANY times already) and make the big decision - he wants you back!

Regarding the going out etc. - while the primary purpose of plan A is to demonstrate a willingness to meet his needs AFTER the A, a side effect is that you are making changes to your behaviour. Similarly plan B is about you. You will be a better person because of the plans, even though that is not their principal motivation.

Keep up the good work.

S

Mimi,

Keep praying for the clear mind and calm heart..... it is being put to the test and you are doing a good job!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Keepmvn4wrd:
<strong>

I have helped many women get their men back... Trust me... What you are doing works the best of anything to get them to come around... Do not take him back easily.. He needs to wonder if he has lost you and maybe made a mistake...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TRUER words were never spoken! Taking him back or letting him back into your life too easily does nothing but lead to heartache. Continue to hold out, Mimi! Continue to deny the junkie his fix. You are doing GREAT!!

I am so sad. I don't know what is wrong with me. This is so hard. I don't know if I can take this anymore.

I was so stupid. I did an impulsive driveby to her house. I think I saw him drop off OW and her daughter. They ran laughing from the car, running in the rain. Now it looks like they're turning into one big happy family. He doesn't even call my son. It was better for me not to know this.

I just want to give up on all this. What's the use, guys? I just think he does not love me anymore. I know the Harleys would disagree. How could I ever trust him again? This is not the husband that I thought I had. I am tired of living this life. I want to live a free, authentic life, not caught up in not being able to answer my phone. I want to call him and tell him how I feel about this and I also want to have a few words, well more than a few words, with her. She's also wanting my husband to be her daughter's father. That makes me want to throw up. The problem is that it seems like he's going along with it.

I can't stop obsessing and worrying about this. I don't know what to do anymore. And he was just calling me today.

He plays too many games.

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

quote:
MB is not about playing head games. It's not about making him wonder if he lost you or not.

Chris,

This is not about playing games. This is real life. If you have studied what really happens when a WS returns instead of worrying about plan A and Plan B so much, you would see that what I am wanting her to do WORKS. And that is what I am most concerned with, is what WORKS. The WS comes back much faster and WANTING to be in the relationship when you show them that you can and will live without them. I have seen this work again and again and again. If you do not want to do it, fine, but you are wrong and are not looking at REALITY if you can't see that what I suggested works far better than anything. If she keeps up what she is doing, you will see it again....

What wakes most of the BS on this site wake up?
It is when they "sense" that the WS is pulling away and is vague. Suddenly the BS starts begging and pleading and will do anything to change. They say they never realized how much they loved the spouse until they lost them. So, we KNOW it works to wake people up. I did not INVENT the rules, just observe reality. Reality shows me that time and time again the WS comes back "just" after the BS seems to have moved on and stopped trying everything to save the relationship. I have many saved threads to back up my views.

You are on the right track Mimi. Hold the line <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

KeepMvn:

I agree with you and follow you. I need your help. Keep checking on me. You see, I can easily backslide.

My WS does respond to the approach that you suggest as we can see already!!!

BTW, I feel better after my venting!!

I thought I had stopped the drivebys. I don't know what got into me.

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi

you are doing fine. Keep it up. I know it is difficult, but just remember the goal. You have to win the war not each individual battle.
Think about what he has done - he tried desperately to contact you - remember what I said in the earlier post as to why he is probably doing this. He failed (because you stuck to plan B). How would that make him feel? He will feel anxious and desperate. Where can he go now that you have rejected his overtures? OW. You know this. This is what plan B is. If you hadn't done the drive by you mightn't have even thought about it. You did and you saw him. But you don't know how he is feeling inside. I'll bet you that he isn't happy, but he is thrashing around emotionally looking for something to cling to in the wreckage of the life that he has made. YOU will almost certainly be at the forefront of his mind during this time. You will, IMO, see a lot of this behaviour over the next few weeks as YOUR plan B takes hold of HIS life. He will try to engage you. He will fail. He will be depressed. He will go to OW for solace. She will LB and he will get more depressed (even if she doesn't LB). He will try harder to engage you. He will fail again. Etc. Each time he springs back in your direction he will have more momentum. Eventually he will break through the wall of fog and cut the elastic cord holding him to OW. You will have won.

Hang in there.

Mimi,

Salerio is right. Although you saw one picture in one moment during your drive by (I did a lot of drive bys), I want you to think about what he is actually going through.

Okay, maybe they had a nice day together. Now he drops her off. And then later tries to call you. Ask yourself "Why?" Because he is NOT sold yet on what he is doing.OW may be having a great time. But it appears, just as with my wife, that your WH is not entirely onboard. especially after your Plan A.

Now, in Plan B, he is stuck 24/7 with her. No more Mimi-fixes. And the OW has to meet ALL of his needs. And guess what? She is not equipped to do that. She is happy because she has him 24/7 now...that you have backed away. In her mind, she has "won." so, she sits back now, happy in the knowledge that she doesnt have to fight anymore. She can let her guard down.

One thing the experts talk about is that a HUGE reason most of these relationships fail isthat eventually, they stop being on their best behavior in fantasyland (eg. the FOG), and begin to see each other clearly. This is when the LBs start. As was stated above, as the OW begins to LB your WH, he will try to fix things by contacting you (believe me, I KNOW!). But, now that you are in Plan B, he cant reach you. So, he goes back to his new life, with the beginnings of what will be great frustration. And the more frustrated he gets, the more he will try to contact you.

Even when my wife showed up at my door in January, wanting to know if it was possible to reconcile, it still took another 6 weeks before she was ready to fully end things with the OM. So, even when he starts cracking, you will have to stay on plan for awhile longer, so that he FULLY comes out of it.

I agree and disagree somewhat with the discussion about making him jealous and think he is losing you. Look, there is enough fantasy going on out there without you perpetuating it. But, what his mind invents may be far worse than anything you can cook up. Example? There is no need to tell him or pretend that you are moving on, or might have someone else. First, that may just give him justification for what he is doing. You see, he is committing adultery. You tell him it is wrong. And then he sees you possibly doing the same. Thus, maybe what he is doing isnt so wrong. No, you must maintain your position.

But, I agree that jealousy is also a powerful force. It was very powerful with my wife. But the thing was, her jealousy was due to NOT KNOWING what was going on. she would try to get information on my whereabouts, etc. and get nothing. She might try to call and talk to the kids and I had a babysitter and was out. Now, I might have been out with a few guys shooting pool. But, I didnt play it up like I had a big date. I just made sure that she received NO information. This way, her mind began to play tricks on her and she felt that I MIGHT be moving on, thus increasing her pressure.

In the end of all of this, she came to me, accusing me of seeing other women and moving on. Of course, it was then that I could prove that I didnt...that it was all made up in her mind. So, now she knows that I have always been committed to our marriage. But while she was in the fog and I was in Plan B, she had NO IDEA what I was doing. I didnt have to pretend or to do things I shouldnt. I didnt have to lie. Myself and people around me just shut off information to her. And her imagination took off from there.

You must maintain your morals. Lying, cheating, etc is the purview of the WS and OP. do not play their game. But since it is their game, they will believe that you will play it also. So, by shutting down all info, you let their sick little minds that are under the influence of the fog, go crazy. And in the end, they find out how great you really are.

Hang in there. Just assume that they are together EVERYDAY and stop driving by. Concentrate on your life. GO DARK! Then let their little game explode on themselves. You are close. Dont blow it now.

In His arms.

So the goal is to get the ws back in the shortest time frame regardless of what how you get them back?

When he does talk to you and tries to find out if you will take him back you HAVE to tell him that you are not sure what you want.. that maybe this was for the best...(in other words, do and say the things the WS does because they are the things that get people to pursue.)
So in Plan B it's okay to try and manipulate the ws by not being honest?

You must maintain your morals. Lying, cheating, etc is the purview of the WS and OP. do not play their game.
BINGO!
As mortarman pointed out, if the ws is wondering what's going on simply because you are not having communcation with the, then that is okay and it may have some benefits. But doing anything to perpetuate those thoughts is wrong and will not help the realtionship.

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Hello You Guys:

I find ALL of the perspectives and support on this Board to be helpful to me. I don't want any of you to go away. I need you ALL .

I don't perceive KeepMvn as moving far from the basic principles of PLAN B. Its the same effect of the BS figuring out how to go on with life without the WS. Also, not engaging in the whining and pleading, being the pursued not the pursuer, being the mouse and not the cat, etc.

For me, my WS is probably 99.9% sure that I will not be unfaithful because of being a devout Christian. I don't believe in divorce, concerned about judgement day, etc. I think he would want me to be unfaithful in order to justify his actions. I have heard him say, "you're only human". He might be WONDERING about what I am doing since I tend to have a high drive and have not had SF. However, unfaithfulness is probably not a major concern of his. He is probably moreso WONDERING why I am not asking him for SF this time. This is usually how he has been able to reel me into his cake-eating. He probably would comply if I asked. So his WONDERING about me reacting differently is a good thing. I'm not being predictable.

More than anything he's probably anxious that I won't wait around for him or that I don't LOVE or CARE for him anymore. He seems to want me to be his second option if things don't work out with the OW. I have had to face the reality of this and it is not a pretty picture. I guess it's an ALIEN thought process. He keeps saying, "This probably isn't going to work out", almost like I would feel sorry for him if it didn't. I can hardly imagine him wanting to be with someone like her. I have to ask myself who is he really? He's no longer the man I thought he was or was he like this always? When he is with her, is he my same husband only with another person or is he different with her? When I am with him, he seems like himself. It has also seemed as if he has wanted me to help him escape from her. It makes me want to rescue him but of course I can't. It's so confusing.

I know I want joy. I know I'm tired of all this drama in my life. I wish I could hate him and not care about what he is doing. However, I can't get him off of my mind. I wish there was some way that I could really distract myself from this all.
Steve Harley says that since my WS is my TEAMMATE in life that I will feel this way but I am getting tired and want relief which I have not been able to find. I think that's why I do the drivebys. I don't know what to do with myself.

Let me hear from you.

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I'm not trying to get anything started here, just help guide you on the way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't thnk km4v is too far aff the mark either. Maybe I am just percieving it wrong.

I thnk most of what you said is correct. However,...
He is probably moreso WONDERING why I am not asking him for SF this time.

He keeps saying, "This probably isn't going to work out", almost like I would feel sorry for him if it didn't.

When I am with him, he seems like himself.
All this seems as if you are in contact with him. Are you? Are you in Plan B?

It's not easy. Not having contact helps you to not worry about what he is doing or thinking.

This is the main reason a ws should end ALL contact with the op after the affair is over. Helps to keep from obsessing after them.

Hi Chris:

No. I'm not having contact. That's what I don't understand. I can't seem to stop the obsessing and longing. The PLAN B has not worked for me. Maybe it was that phone conversation on Friday (when he asked for clarification of PLAN B letter) that got me back into this withdrawal mode.

In my last post,I was mostly referencing what I experienced when we were in contact from February to April (cake-eating time)and during the false reconciliation time period of three weeks during April.

I can't seem to stop the obsessing and longing. The PLAN B has not worked for me. Maybe it was that phone conversation on Friday (when he asked for clarification of PLAN B letter) that got me back into this withdrawal mode.
Possibly. Any withdrawal is set back to day one with contact.

After a time, one learns to deal with necessary contact (kids, finances, etc) and it doesn't reset your "clock".

Even with ZERO contact, you are not going to simply quit thinking about them. After all, you were married/together for xx years and have a shared history. You're gonna grieve and your gonna remember things that happened because of all this. That's okay.

But after time, you will stop obsessing about him and quit letting your memory (of him) influence your decisions and attitude.

Mimi

My opinions:

my WS is probably 99.9% sure that I will not be unfaithful
as you probably were with him. Be assured that as your plan B progresses, that 0.1% doubt will rapidly increase. Let him doubt. Don't deliberately mislead or anything, just 'go dark' to use mortarmans great phrase.

He probably would comply if I asked
Of course he would, which shows you that your plan is working. But you aren't going to ask, and that will make him wonder even more.

More than anything he's probably anxious that I won't wait around for him or that I don't LOVE or CARE for him anymore.
Of course he is, except that your plan B letter told him that you do, but he has to choose to come back fully, not as a cake-eater.

He keeps saying, "This probably isn't going to work out",
That is him wanting to come back. He wants you to make it easy for him - then he can wait till he is sure before coming back. You are now in plan B, which makes him choose. He will be comparing an idealised romanticised version of you (from your plan A) to an real-life, no make-up, smelly feet, grumpy in the morning, leaves the cap off the toothpaste version of her - in other words completely an inversion of what he had during his cake eating phase (although I'm sure your feet don't smell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Pretty soon, in fact probably already, he will be fantasising about an OW - and that OW will be you.

When he is with her, is he my same husband only with another person or is he different with her?
He is different for now, but slowly he will become a guilt-ridden unhappy version of himself, i.e. a totally different person to what OW believes him to be. She will do likewise. Thats why Affairs don't work.

It has also seemed as if he has wanted me to help him escape from her
He does. But you can't do it for him. You can only help him once he makes the jump himself. He's looking longingly at the trampoline right now though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Mimi

I really think you are doing a good job and admire you for being so strong. you may not see yourself that way, but later you will.

I have been reading your thread in hopes that it would help me with my own situation and some of it has, but mine is very different at least the situation with my WH. So, I hope you will forgive me if I ask some on here for help.
God Bless you.

Mortarman,

If you see this, would you reply to my post on GQII about my situation. I feel like I'm the only one coming here who is in this situation and I really respect your advice. My financial situation will only allow me to seek free advice right now, and I have read some of your other posts helping others. I would really appreciate it if you have time if you could just give your opinion. Let me know if you would be willing to and I will post there, otherwise I will not.
Thanks and God Bless you either way.
cajeanie

UPDATE!!!! I'M ABLE TO MOVE ON!!!

I'm feeling surprisingly uplifted this evening. I just met with a realtor and WILL be putting my house on the market July 1. We talked about me purchasing a quaint cottage in an old part of town which I can renovate to my liking. A place for me and my boys, excuse me, young men. My youngest son will be going to college next year anyway. My older son is already out of town starting his senior year of college. I have not told him about the A, by the way. He has a bad temper which scares me.

My WS would not miss the shell of this house. He would miss what I have put in it. That's one of my gifts, making a house into a home. So wherever I put my stuff is where he might want to go if he decides to come back. OW would have a hard time topping me on decorating; that's probably causing a lot of LBing in his condo as he waits for her to make it comfy. Now my cooking, that's a different story. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think it will help me to start anew and to have decorating a new house of my own as a project. I'm feeling inspired!!!

I haven't heard from WS today. Realtor couldn't believe all of his stuff is still here, including a closet full of clothes. She's a friend of mine.

Also going to a new book club at Barnes and Noble tonight.

Thanks so much for all the continued support. I need it.

Mimi,
Glad to hear you're keeping yourself occupied and looking towards the future, cottage and all.
I know the longing and obsessive thinking about WS, I'm only into day 4 of Plan B and so far not too bad, but still...
I'm more worked up over my family's attitude and lack of understanding, I've argued with 16 yr. old S every day since my brother made his summer job offer!
I'm stickin to my guns on this one. I want him home with us this summer.
Keep up the good work! I'm following your posts closely.