Mimi - I don't think I've posted to you before but I have read both chapters of your saga and would like to add my support for you now. Plan B IS difficult. I've been in strict Plan B almost 6 months. WH moved in w/OW New Year's Eve, I've had only 1 letter and 2 emails from him since then, which may or may not be due to the conditions of my Plan B letter.

At first, like you, I wondered constantly about what WH was doing - when would he come to his senses? How could he ever be happy with OW? How could he step out of our family life so easily? And on and on. Sometime in March, I started to realize that I was changing. I had to take care of myself. I had to do the things WH used to do, so I did them. I missed the "self" I used to be, but I knew that she was inside me and that, as the stress of my life decreased, my "self" would return, maybe stronger than ever.

That remains to be seen, but at least I'm still here. I have promised both of my kids (S25 and D23) that I will not abandon them. That I will try to keep our family intact, our lifestyle ongoing, as long as I possibly can. I'm tired. It's hard to do it all myself, especially under stress, but I believe it's worth it.

I know you want your WH back, so do I, if he's willing to make the changes necessary for reconciliation. From your posts you seem to have had a very nice life. I can relate to one of your posts about having a hard time socializing. Your H was your world. So was mine, and I'm finding it hard to go out, too. For me it was just easier to stay home in our nest and relax, let other people come to us. You know, though, I'm trying to overcome the inertia and socialize, and no matter what happens in my M, going out will be a good thing for me. Other behavior changes will be good, too. Sometimes it's all about how you look at it.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone, things will get better, you will get stronger. You're doing a good job at a very difficult task.
Thinking of you.
Lablady

Me BS 48
WH 48
M 25 yrs
S 25, D 23
OW 44 widow/coworker
D-day 7/02
Several months of going back and forth btwn me and OW
WH moved in w/MIL 10/02
WH moved back home 12/02
WH moved in w/OW 12/31/02
I receive letter from WH 1/29/03 saying he's not sure what he wants, but he still loves me
I send Plan B letter 2/10/03
Only minimal email contact since then, about finances and D's graduation

I want to let all of you know how much I really appreciate your posts today. It's great to know that I am not really out here alone.

I tried to focus on me today as much as I could. I went to look at potential houses to buy. I bought some more flowers to plant. I bought some special food treats that I like. At least, I just didn't stay in the house. I also had a long telephone conversation with a girlfriend who was checking up on me. That was new. I'm really not a phone person. She relates to me as she is also grieving but over the death of her young daughter from breast cancer. We talked about how insensitive people can be who have not been through these traumatic experiences.

I still felt as if I was just going through the motions, like I'm living in a dream, like this can't be what my life has come to. However, this is it. I have got to figure out a way to accept this. This is no way for a person to live, so joyless. I want to be in love again, part of a couple. I'm tired of being alone. I know it sounds unhealthy but I sometimes think just having my WS' presence would be better than this.

Yes, I'm still struggling here in the dark but at least I have you guys to keep me on track. I've been wanting to make that call or to do that driveby but, at least, I've been successful in avoiding those self-defeating behaviors.

Silly question that's been bugging me... I know I shouldn't focus on him but... Why do you think my WS had his VOICEMAIL turned off? I can only reach him through E-Mail. Did OW demand this so there would be NC with me? or is he antsy about being always available to me? Who knows in that alien mind? However, I think it's irresponsible in that there might be an emergency with me or one of the children. I guess the police could always go find him at the condo. I'm obsessing here as usual.

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

((((((((((mimi1254)))))))))

Separation or plan B can be so difficult I know! I'm sorry that this is happening to you...

I'm just going to share how I have coped with this and what have worked so far.. maybe I could throw some light for you????

Well let me tell you I been following advice... like if someone told me I should go and walk upside down or get into a tub with candles I'll do it... Anything! anything that might work you know? out of desperation? to try to get my life back and be out of this limbo?

I just read in a book that in this times we are used and espect instant changes.. fast food, microwaves, one-hour dry cleaning... When in true deep changes takes time. Well I wanted an instant change also, but came to realize that THAT would not happen. I was just in a brink to ask D not because I was ready for it but just not to be in limbo? Like no matter what I want a different life? Well later I thought it over and followed some advice that in the first year if you can don't do or take any life changing desicions.

Well I'm there, also like you my circle of friends and family is SO tight that I beleived I would never meet anyone else. Well I'm not planing to do that but I also hate loneliness so I can understand how are you feeling. When and if that time comes I'll ask for ideas.

Now I'm not afraid to be alone anymore, you got kids and got advantadge over me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

So things that have worked for me... And I mean really worked.

Have a chat friend and share all this time with her.
Ladies chat! Is so good therapy and I have a lot of laugh there (best medicine).
Don't see things that bad or get ideas in my mind. I mean for all I know H can be still with OW, but I don't really care right now, this is MY time to fix MYSELF. And I'm using it for that.
I'm into a diet and getting a better body (boosting my self esteem).
Reading some books on codependency and sharing them with a friend who is also reading it so we don't feel alone... Care to join??
Concentrating on work more now.

Basically we run from sadness and feelings that we don't want to feel for so long, that when we are confronted with them, we want to keep runing... Well don't run anymore. Experience those, address your issues, take this time to take care on you and grow as a person. Don't think on H, there is so little you can do now about him. In time if he comes back you'll be stronger and if not you'll be a very different person that he will not matter anymore.

I know you see your life hopeless without him, I did the same myself. But let me tell you life is not hopeless without him it will be without you. Nothing last forever as much as we want and although this reality shot causes us great pain, I think you also need to take the good things out of it.

Take care of YOU!

Mimi

Hang in there. This whole thing is hell, but it will get better. Keep up the activities and posting here. I got new resolve in many areas over the weekend - of course I got down about others, but thats life - two steps forward and one back - but that is still a net one step forward.

It is lonely - I can really relate to that. However, I just think of the pain I felt and feel about WW's behaviour - I'm not going to do that to ANYONE. I am doing my best to get her back. If she chooses not to, then I'll be a better person for someone else.

Mimi, shutting the voice mail is just another hurt. It's insensitive and I know how you feel because when My H went to see Ow for a week, he didn't tell us anything about where he'd be. No contact ways at all.
I had to find the secret emails to see how to call him. And I did!
But you wonder what if one of us, me, children, grandchildren get ill or even die!Dont they care?
Mine also flew just after 9/11 which was worst time to fly. Like getting to her was worth his life!
About the LBing. yes they will! I tell you why and how. She's going to start bugging him about divorce and marry her to feel secure!
And if he's not made up his mind, wants you both, he's going to have the pressure on then!
It shouldn't take too long as you've said she's young. Probably very stupid too. LOL
If he' settling in, and becoming the couch potato with her, she's going to get antsy too.
The excitement will dim.
God bless and hang in, Lou

Every situation is different, but I too, did a Plan B and finally, after three months my H and I started recovery. Some advice from my personal perspective:

*begin to think only of yourself and your children, what is best for you? If you can only do it for a minute, then do that. When you think of something you would like, that would make you feel good or happy (not R oriented) just DO IT

*I read "Hope for the Separated" which helped quite a bit in seeing the purpose to staying out of contact with WH. Maybe with a true purpose in mind, this will be easier for you. In the end, you will be doing it for yourself

*Pray, meditate, whatever and stay in the NOW, this moment right now.

I will try and post more later...

Hi Mimi

any news?
Has your WS switched on his voicemail yet?

S.

Hi Guys:

I did not believe it could happen but I really believe that I have made a major change. It has lasted onto a second day. Basically, I feel calm, self-assured and confident. Like MATILDE , I am believing that "life is not hopeless without him" , that life would me hopeless without ME.

I just finally became tired of it all. I was mainly tired of the obsessions about him. My whole day was filled with thoughts about: "What are they doing?" and triggers occurred everywhere I went. I decided that I could not possibly live that way any longer. So I began replacing the obsessions with positive thoughts and affirmations about myself. Thoughts like: I don't deserve this; I am likable and lovable; I deserve gourmet dining and not crumbs, etc... I am steadily affirmed by others as I having been going out into the community again. Everybody compliments me on how good I look. I make sure to tell them how good I am starting to feel. Maybe they will pass some of this on to him.

Also, like Matilde suggested, I began to think back and identify ANYTHING THAT HAS WORKED. I asked myself, what activities keep my mind off of him. There aren't many but they include flower gardening, looking at houses and thinking about moving and reading. I want to add more and more activities to this list.

I'm feeling the love dwindling.I feel so detached from him. I'm thinking, "how can I be with someone who can treat me and his children so badly?" Hopefully, it is locked away somewhere as suggested by Mortarman.

I did impulsively call him on Monday. What a mistake! I told him about important mail he received at the house. He asked, "what did it say?" as if, as usual, I open all of his mail. I quickly ended the conversation.

This event just happened as I am typing this post. The banker called on my office VoiceMail and says, "I'm planning on coming over this morning for you to sign the documents'"( for refinancing). WS never told her that I was not going along with it! Well, I quickly called him and informed him of the banker's plan. He says "Oh that's right, that won't work for you ,will it? I'll call her right now and tell her not to come." I say thanks and hang up.
What's going on? Is it part of a scheme or is he just using avoidance. I don't really care, though. I'm simply not going along with the refinancing. I hate it that I talked to him again. He sounded so phony, not even like a real person, like an ALIEN!!!

I also hear that he has been going to the gym at different times as if trying to catch me. Who knows???

Phone is ringing two times in a row in the office now. I'll fill you in on what's going on. Let me hear from you. Phone is ringing again!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi, it sounds like you are doing great and breaking out of the obessession by focusing more on yourself. I suspect it will get easier and easier from here on out.

An activity that really helped take my mind off my troubles was working out. I know you don't want to go the gym but was going to suggest that you start doing it at home. Exercise will also help your mental state enormously. I equipped one of my rooms with dumbbells, barbell, step and worked out to home videos. The best ones I have found on the market are the Firm and Cathe Frederick. They have both cardio and weight lifting workouts. I used to just lose myself in those workouts just after my H left and it was such blissful peace.

Hang in there, Mimi, it sounds like you are doing great.

Hi Melody:

I continue to go to the gym everyday. I really it like it there. It is a great facility. I always make sure that he is not there before I go in. If he catches me there, then so be it.

Thanks for continuing to be there for me.

It was not him on the phone again, by the way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's a New Me but I want to make sure that you guys do not forget to check on me to reinforce my changes. Please let me hear from you. I can easily slip. It only took me a minute to impulsively call him on Monday.

The stuff with the refinancing today almost got to me this afternoon but I've been able to shake it off. I don't think he gave it priority to tell the banker that I had changed my mind. Then, he did not want to me to call and embarass him by telling her that we are separated. He has this big image there that he is trying to maintain. I did not blow it for him since it's his bank and I'm continuing to pull my Alimony/Child Support out of that checking account. I know, still dependent but I don't want any of his games with that money.

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>Hi Melody:

I continue to go to the gym everyday. I really it like it there. It is a great facility. I always make sure that he is not there before I go in. If he catches me there, then so be it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats good. I was worried that you had stopped working out. I started working out on a regular basis when my last H left and really threw myself into it, its such a lifesaver!

Hey Mimi,
You're doing good! You may slip but you won't fall and if you do, we'll be here to pick you up and dust you off and send you on your way again!

This is hard. WH was here today to see the two youngest, he picked them up while I was at work and dropped them off when I was home. He left them at the door, put the carseat on the doorstep and I never saw him! My ears were pretty perked up to everything that was said though!!
He didn't leave me any $$.
Oh, sometimes I wonder why I bother and then other times I am so sure about the things I love(d) about him!!
Hang in there!

I've become very serious over the past few days about moving on with my life. I'm feeling like I don't deserve this and I'm really tired of being so unhappy on the weekends. I spent all day Sat. looking for a new house and I believe that I found one that I really like. I made arrangements with the realtor to put my house on the market on next Monday and arranged to meet with contractors today to do work on my house. I am moving on; I am serious about this. I feel good about my decision.

Well, you guessed it. It is real scary for WS. He will need to **** or get off the pot. I E-Mailed him of my desire to split our retirement funds today. I told him that I needed to hear from him by this afternoon or I would go ahead and proceed with this. It's really easy to get mutual fund money disbursed to you. One fund needs his signature, unfortunately. The other I can simply do over the phone.

Had phone conversation with WS who, of course, did not want to give his signature. Also, he does not want to agree to signing the necessary paperwork for me to put the house up for sale. The realtor called him today wanting to get in touch with him about the paperwork. He also got my E-Mail. So he is getting a huge dose of reality today.

I called him back in response to him leaving an E-Mail questioning what I am doing. I will try to give you the gist of the conversation.

WS: Why are you doing this now? I thought we were going to WAIT before splitting the retirement funds? And, why is "REALTOR's NAME" calling me?

ME: I decided to buy a house and I need the funds for that.

WS: Why are you buying a house? How old is the house? Where is it.

ME: (Hesitation in my voice) Why does it matter to you? (In other words, it's none of your business)

WS: If I didn't care, I wouldn't ask. I thought you would want new construction. I thought you would want to live in a condo.

ME: I would rather live in a house.

He hears noise in the background as I am at home meeting with the contractor.

WS: Where are you? What's that noise?

ME: I'm meeting with contractors about painting, doing repairs,etc.

WS: (Sounding panicked) Are they doing the work today? Who are they? Are they reputable? How did you learn about them?

ME: (Gave a simple explanation and in response to his panic stated): All of this is your choice. You have chosen to leave me and to be with "OW". I have to go on with my life.

WS: How are you feeling about us?

ME: It still stands. When you can assure me of NC and I feel that I can believe you, I will CONSIDER talking to you about US.

WS: OK. Call me back before 1:00 to tell me the growth fund figures.

I CALLED HIM BACK AND HE IS GONE. HE HAS HIS CELL PHONE TURNED OFF.

What do I do now? He is going to avoid me. What's going on? What did I do wrong? How can I fix this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, I was able to get the ALIMONY/CHILD SUPPORT money again today from his checking account. He was anxious about that because he does not have much money left for the next two weeks. He is beginning to suffer the consequences of his actions.

Mimi,
What the hell does WH mean "How do you feel about us?"
It kills me, as if they don't understand yet how we feel??
And "Us", there is no us while there is an OW!!
Definate cake eating going on here, he doesn't want to be in your life but he wants to know everything that's going on.
Hang in there Mimi.
Don't try calling him again. let him come to you.
I know it's hard!
I'm a mess myself today, see my post.

I don't want to call him but I want him to sign the necessary paperwork for me to put the house on the market and for me to get the money.

I WILL proceed with getting the house repaired.

He's figured out how to stall me.

Mimi, Hang in there, you are in my prayers. God Bless.

Mimi,

You're new title for the thread is right on. He is cracking. Pani is the word of the day. But, where is he now in all of this? And more important...what do you do next?

He asked where your relationship was because he is afraid. Of what? of coming down off that fence, and putting down that huge piece of cake. Your response was right on (NC, and then I will begin to talk to you about possible reconciliation). Perfect.

All that you are doing (divorce paperwork, division of assets, selling the house, etc) is shining reality into the fog. It is getting REAL painful in there!

But, what now? Well, due to my experience, and many of those I have read on here, my suggestion is to turn up the heat! How to do that will be up to you.

First off, you have told him that you are interested in possible reconciliation. Now, during anything that might happen while you are doing what I suggest below, that he comes up and asks "Where are we?" or "Have you given up?", your normal response would be as you did above. But, as you have said in the last several posts, you are about done with all of this.

You are supposedly in Plan B, but you are still having a lot of contact. TURN UP THE HEAT! Let him know in an email or letter, that although you are ready to work on the marriage, you also are reaching a point where you can no longer accept the status quo. Thus, ALL direct contact will end. NOW! You will deal with him through intermediaries, lawyers, whatever...in tying up all of these loose ends. You are not doing this to hurt him...you are just trying to get on with your life.

Tell him that he is a grown man, capable of making decisions. Well, sometimes decisions have consequences. Tell him that as of now, there will only be one woman in his life...Mimi or OW. One of you will nolonger be in his life in any way.

Explain to him that this is not what you want, but it is what you have to do. That the power to save this marriage now rests in his lap. That you are now no longer waiting patiently at home for his return, but attempting to regain your life.

Close this letter/email with the facts. Tell him how you feel about him, that you know that with time,counseling, committment...that your marriage can be better than either of you ever could have thought. But tell him that you can no longer stand by and support his inappropriate and abusive behavior of you. That if he feels that this is what he should be and must be doing, then it is time to get fully away from him because Mimi does not deserve to be treated this way by someone that supposedly loves her.

Mimi, I have followed your posts for awhile. I believe your husband is on the fence...and it has gotten VERY uncomfortable for him. He is struggling to maintain the status quo. He sees you buying a house, taking out money from savings, etc. He figures he cant stop you, but wants to still maintain control...to keep you in the game. So he will go along with it, as long as he can still maintain himself atop of that fence.

It is time, IMO, that he understands that the placement of his butt on that fence will no longer be allowed. That selling the house, etc will not be continuing the status quo, but will be the beginning of the end.

I believe the way that you must do that is to go completely dark now. Plan B in the fullest! He is panicked and nervous. So let him be more so. Silence, plus your actions towards splitting assets, divorce, and moving into a new house, all will cause him GREAT discomfort in the fog.

Which way your husband goes from there is anyone's guess. You have done well, and the odds are he will break...and come home seeking reconciliation. but he might not. But I believe that you have reached that point where MIMI can no longer accept the status quo. And thus, it is your husband's responsibility now to act like a grown man for once...and make an adult decision.

In His arms.

He probably saw OW during lunch and got his FIX. ALways happens.

He called on Office Voice Mail and asked can realtor slide papers under the door to be signed. This is out of embarassment since she is my friend and now knows about him. That answer would be NO.

Then he says "CALL ME BACK ON MY CELL PHONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE SO WE CAN TALK FURTHER ABOUT DIVIDING THE MONEY". This pisses me off because he tells me when I'm allowed to call him on his cellphone and I'm not supposed to be calling him anyways. He thinks I need him and I do for the money issue.

So what do you recommend? I'm thinking an E-Mail, answering his questions and stating " the answer about the money is either YES OR NO. If the answer is YES, sign the paper which I WILL slide under your office door."

I'm so tired of this crap!

MM:

I just reread your post and know what I've got to do. I will write him a letter spelling out my position.

Any other suggestions by you or anyone else will continue to be greatly appreciated though.

I'm not calling him back and will tell the realtor to contact him regarding an answer to his question.

Thanks a lot.