Nothing new is happening with me.

I'm such a spoiled brat. I don't like being on the second page. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I meant to ask you what was going on with you in my earlier reply on my post but forgot. Now that I know I'll just help keep you on the top of the page. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

NW

I know actions speak louder than words but I did get this Voice Mail Message after a FEW DAYS of DARKNESS:

(His voice breaking as if tearful):
"Hi, my name. I just wanted to call to say Good Morning and to tell you that I love you. Everything is going to be great. We're going to have a great life after all this bull we have gone through. These challenges were for a reason I'm sure. I just don't know why. I will be talking to you soon. Bye."

Mimi please resist the urge to respond to him because if you do then you will be taking the hurt away from him. His hurt needs to reach critical mass so that he can finally leave the OW for good, and if you talk to him then this will not happen. Remain in the dark until his actions prove to you that he has finally reached the point of ending all contact with the OW forever and is willing to follow a marital recovery plan along the MB principles.

As usual, Coffeeman is right on the money.

Stay Dark until he breaks.

In His arms.

Out of curiosity, what do you think is going on with him and the OW at this point? He's cleared her out of the condo. Is she demanding for him to come live with her in the ghetto life?

I know I really shouldn't care but I am wondering.

Mimi, Please listen to TMCM. I have kept up with your posts from the very first one and I have been in many of the situations that you have been and are in right now. I did not know about MB's site until after the A was over for my FWH and without the right guidance and advice,I made some major mistakes that has caused our recovery to be very difficult for me and almost unbearable at times.By the grace of God and this forum,we are doing good,now.
The one thing I must tell you is that TMCM is absolutely on the mark about what he tells you.

TMCM.........
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Mimi please resist the urge to respond to him because if you do then you will be taking the hurt away from him. His hurt needs to reach critical mass so that he can finally leave the OW for good, and if you talk to him then this will not happen. Remain in the dark until his actions prove to you that he has finally reached the point of ending all contact with the OW forever and is willing to follow a marital recovery plan along the MB principles.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please follow this advice. Please.I wish I had known this.Oh,how I wish I had known this.I helped my FWH to avoid his pain and I wish a thousand times over that I had known not to do it.In my love for him and my desire to have him back, I was too good,as Pepperband explained to me,and I have paid the consequences.
You have done quiet well following what the seasoned posters have told you,with an occasional detour,but in all,you have done great. Please do not mess up now.
Pepperband says that recovery is difficult and it is. Recovery has been the part that the people here have helped me with and as I have wondered why some of the well seasoned ones,like TMCM, did not post to me, I now realize that it was too late for some of their advice to me.The A was over and I had already taken H back with all of the mistakes included,such as no NC and he worked with her. I was not fortunate enough to know about this site during the A. I flew by the seat of my pants(which had holes in them at the time. Not good for flying!)and made mistakes as the result of my emotions and deep love for my H at the time.When one is experiencing the pain and devastation of betrayal,feelings and emotions often lead them in the wrong direction.I did a lot of things right during the time,too but I could have saved myself a lot of agony if I had the advice of this site,this forum along with my own efforts.
It is all hind sight now for me. It is the present and the future for you,Mimi.
My FWH called me every day for weeks,30 minutes before he would leave work and tell me he was coming back...... just not right now. I now realize that he was just making sure I was at home and too far away to be there to follow him and see where he was going! I looked forward to those calls. He would send me emails saying he knew it sounded hollow but he loved me.He would thank me for hanging in there and loving him...assuring me he would come home soon.... just not right now. He was with the FOW beore and after every one of those calls. He emailed her as well. He would come to the house and bring me flowers,hug me,at times have dinner with me........and then he would go spend the night with the FOW.On and On and on.I did not know for sure that he was still with the FOW.
I know what it is like to love your H and want your M and R back so much that you do these crazy things but I had noone to tell me any different. You do.Please listen.I am pulling and praying for you to have your H back and without the OW. Recovery is hard,Mimi.There are things that can make it even more difficult.Again.Please listen to TMCM,Pepperband and others who KNOW what they are telling you. Dr. Harley has done a wonderful thing by having this site and offering his advice and expertise.He offers this forum for additional input and you are so fortunate to have found it early.My thoughts are with you as I continue to read. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> kk

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>Today, I read over my notes from my last Steve Harley session.

He said, "WS" is trying to "finagle himself out of this. He knows that it is not working for him. You will have to sit back in your holding pattern and wait him out. He's a proud man who has to do it his way".

OK, Steve. I was trying to listen to you.

I've been trying to listen to all of you.

Hang in there with me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Mimi,

Listen to Steve, even when your H is crying and asking to come home. I had to listen to the WS and OW begging me to send the WS home. It certainly was hard to hear but I could not lose my ground.

The WS eventually did come home. Even then it was too early. The addiction is strong. Most BS can not fanthom the extent. That is why false recoveries happen.

So when should you resume contact? IMHO, when he can convincingly show you and prove to you that he is worth having back.

For now, I recommend you learn to shrug your shoulders a bit. It helps letting his crocodile tears slide off your shoulders until the real ones meant for your benefit not his come out of his heart and into yours.

Of course, Steve w/b the better analyst to help guide you.

take care,
L.

King's Kid:

Thanks so much for your loving post. I KNOW FOR SURE that my WS is still carrying on with the OW. I'm not being fooled. He has not done the NC letter and is stalling me. However, I'm pretty sure he's trying to get out of it but he remains addicted. She's not making him high anymore but he's afraid go cold turkey. I've learned so much from MB and Steve Harley.

I'd love to learn how your H's A finally ended after the cake-eating. How long have you been in recovery?

Mimi, in answer to your questions...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd love to learn how your H's A finally ended after the cake-eating. How long have you been in recovery?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#1. When he believed 100% that there was the possibility of losing me. He just left her and returned home.Did not tell her much of anything. He said that he had discussed with her his returning to me but it created a huge argument and she would not accept it. She is a mental case and he dreaded ending it just as your WH expresses.


#2.We have been in recovery for 2 years and right now doing good. We are doing good. I still struggle with things like there being a NC and his not ending the A in the proper way. My H is wonderful to me now.I have set boundries and he knows I will not allow some things that I allowed before.I do not believe that he will risk it again.
Right now what seems most important to you is probably that your WH end the A and return home. The problems are not over at that point.The recovery begins and it will go a lot better if the right things are in place.You have the best advice in the world right here at your finger tips and by phone with Dr. Harley.
I am pulling for you even when I have wanted to reach through this screen and shake you,I still am on your side,Mimi.I hope that your WH wakes up real soon and that when you are back together that it will be better than before.Time and the right principles will get you there. It took a long time for us to get on track and I am thankful we are there.I will be reading about you. kk

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

One thing I would look at hard and long. If WH makes a promise, then doesn't keep it, he's not worth it.
I told my H so many promises he'd broken, that he better not make any he would not keep because it was his last chance with me!
If H says he's going to do so and so, break by this date,etc. and doesn't do it, how can you possibly believe anything he promises if and when he does come home?
It has to start now, not later.
The largest and hardest part of rebuiling is going to be trust, that one keeps their word is proving their sincerity.
Mimi, what does Harley say to this? Can you ask H for a date that he's going to stick to? I don't think this is about making it easy for WH to break from the mess he created.
There probably is no easy way to say it's over, but it sure is necessary to say it.
The opinion that WH is right on the brink of doing this hasn't proven him to be doing so!
Cleaning out the condo would not be proof to me.
I don't think two months down the road will be any easier for him to go NC with OW than it is now. In fact, I think it only makes it harder and time simply puts them closer!
I can only say you are one tough cookie and a great woman to endure so much.
I've followed you since the time he came home and you took a trip together, the first failed attempt at recovery. It's been many months now too.
I only wish I had your strength! Thank God I didn't have to face what you have because I would have failed big time.
Are you still counseling often with Harley?
I'd be interested in what he has to say about giving an ultimatum in time line? Though I know through reading a lot here, he advises the plan and waiting for other person to wake up!
Many here have worked the plans successfully. That is most encouraging.
As for me, I wouldn't be able to recover from this type of A.
It must be very true that God will not allow us to endure more than we can bear.
If he brings you to it, he will bring you through it.
Blessing, LouLou

Hold me to this, guys.

WS is saying that this is THE LAST WEEK.

He has been doing weird things like, leaving his Passport in my mailbox. His Passport is the first thing he made sure to take when he left last time. He also left me a big check that he made for consulting.

However, MY PLAN, is to go completely dark if he is not finished by next Sunday. Completely dark is defined by changing by home and cell phone numbers and never answering my office phone. I told him this. He seemed panicked and would love to think of someway to keep me stalled. Lou, this is what is different than last time. I have gained his respect. Even though I have made my slipups, he sees me as a different person. He recognizes that he can't control me to the extent that he used to. Another plus is that he finds that attractive. Also, I am more aware of the games that he is playing with me. In other words, with the help of MB, I am more powerful.

His job now is to write the NC letter, rent the condo or at least to arrange getting all of the furniture out of there. No temptation to go back there to meet her or to have a safety net to move back into. His last response to me was to please make room in my garage for his car by the end of the week. I told you, crazy and weird.

Recovery for us will be a big challenge, I know. It will come sooner or later. I'm confident of that Lou. I will give it a try. I think he is now living in her trashy house in a ghetto neighborhood. He moved out of his brand new condo that he wanted so badly into there. I'm living in a brand new house that is nicer than the one I moved out of. I can't figure the reasoning behind the housing situation. What a major step down for him in terms of lifestyle!! He is wanting to get out of there, I'm positive, but is too addicted to make the move.

I admit that I have slowed down the process by relieving him of some of his pain.

Keep me in your prayers!!!! I'm struggling with this.

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

I will definitely keep you in my prayers. This is your opportunity to show you mean business. Don't fall off the wagon. I think you have him worried now, and that's exactly where he needs to be. The thought of you locking him out of the communication loop is frightening to him. He knows you are about to cut him loose and it will be just him and the OW. I think that is making him sick to his stomach to hear that.

He is trying to keep the hook baited, however, by giving you his passport and the check. Don't, don't, don't take the bait! He is just trying to keep you strung along, and that is not enough for you! It must be all or nothing. Do not settle for the crumbs, the scraps he is trying to entice you with.

We are here for you. Keep your strength, keep your resolve! The hardest thing I had to do recently was to email my WH that I didn't want to know the progress of his IC, not until the OW is gone for good. That hurt, because I care for him and want to know how he is doing. I also know that he recently had follow-up testing done (blood work) because he had cancer 7 years ago. All his tests since have been coming back clear, but it is killing me not to know if his is OK. But...gotta stay dark, and strong...like good coffee - hey, need to tell Coffeeman that!

We care about you Mimi. Keep your strength!

ISG

Mimi,

I WILL be praying. kk

P/S We will want to hear from you as to how things are going.
I wish for you,the best.My FWH and I are doing wonderful even with the problems earlier.We are a success story.I have no doubt of his love and devotion to me and trust is not an issue. He is well worth it.I wish for you,the best of success. kk

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

Thanks for being there, guys.

I was in PLAN B mode today. Planted flowers, bought new pots and pans.

I'm praying for strength for me and WS. I know he WANTS to do it but CAN'T. It's out of my hands now.

This is such a tragedy for all us so I will be praying for you guys,too. I have been thinking all day that I can't believe that my life turned out like this.

I'm praying for a future like yours KING'S KID.

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I'm praying for you too Mimi! I hope this phase is almost over for you.

NW

Mimi -

I haven't posted to you lately but I've been reading about your latest developments. I truly hope that your WH sticks to his statement that THIS IS THE LAST WEEK!

I have a question for you. Are you planning to let WH move into your new house if he says he wants to come home? Let's say he calls you Friday afternoon and says he's written the NC letter, are you prepared to invite him to live with you right then and there? I guess I'm asking because I know I wouldn't let my WH move home immediately. There are too many issues to work through before I'd feel comfortable enough to have him live with me. Mimi, I know we're all different, I'm just asking for your opinion on this. How do you visualize the next step?

Lablady

In my situation, I really have no other choice. WS will have to move in with me. We will have to try to work out our issues with Steve H.

For one thing, he's so addicted to her that he will have to be extremely accountable to me. Plus, he's moving out of his condo. And, seems to feel the need to hide from her. She does not know where I live. Wild Woman thing -which I believe she is. He was intrigued by her worldly, ghetto ways. She knows bad people and she is bad, lives in a drug-infested neighborhood.

Update:
WS was angry about what he thought was an "ULTIMATUM" from me. He said "I don't like for people to give me ultimatums" BLAH... BLAH...BLAH.
However, he quickly purred down. I could tell that he respected me and knows that I am not backing down. He ended up saying "it may even be before Monday" which was the deadline that I gave.
I will keep you guys posted.