Mimi:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So do I meet with him and look him straight in the face and ask him if he is playing me and tell him that I will not tolerate this anymore? That's what I am wanting to do. I don't know why I'm feeling that way right this minute. It's because I was happy about the date and now I feel like I was fooled. I feel so stupid.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off...you are not stupid! I feel that way sometimes too when dealing with my wife. Stop thinking this way. You are in love with your husband and emotionally tied to him. You want to believe him and believe in him again. THERE IS NOTHING STUPID ABOUT THAT!

Now the task at hand...you want to talk to him? Okay. You asked about asking him if he was playing you? Well, first off, he will not answer it truthfully. If he IS playing you, he isnt going to tell you. But in your case, I dont think he is.

The more likely scenario is that he is still an addict, and still pushing off getting off the "drug." So, you asking him if he is playing you wont get what you are looking for.

The way you are feeling is normal. This is why you MUST have a plan, because your emotions will lead you all over the place.

Rememberthe movie "saving Private Ryan?" When the soldier was trying to help that little girl and got shot by the sniper? His buddies ran for cover. There he was out there still getting shot, and there was NOTHING they could do about it until they took out the sniper. One guy tried to get up and run out there to help. But all that would have done was got TWO people shot. So his buddies grabbed him and dragged him back behind the wall. They had to wait until the sniper gets taken out.

We are your buddies. We can see that you want to run out and save your husband...but you cant until the alien is gone! All you will do is get hurt yourself!

So, you must have a plan. In the Army's case, we have a plan (battle drill) for reacting to a sniper. So even though we might be caught up in one of our buddies being shot, we also know there is a plan to get us out of it. And it might seem slow. It might hurt. But, we have to trust it. Because to go with our emotions would be disasterous!

You also have a battle drill...a plan. It is called Plan B. If you must talk to him, and in this case, it might be a good idea, then it must be straight out of the Plan B script. You must reiterate what your PBL said. You must make him understans that although you love him, you will not allow him to treat you this way. No shouting. No anger. Just matter of fact.

He will scream such things as not liking ultimatums. So what? Tell him that this first off isnt an ultimatum. It is a boundary, and there is a world of difference.

If you havent read Love Must Be Tough by Dobson, then read it TODAY! He says every marital breakdown is predicated on a lost of RESPECT. So, with the loss of respect, how do we think we need to get the marriage back? By REGAINING respect. You have done that by standing up for yourself, starting a new life, etc. You are a mature, confident woman...and he HAS NOTICED!

But, you back down from your boundary...you show your walls are made of jello...and he will NOT respect you. And you cannot love that which you cannot respect. And you cannot trust that which you cannot respect.

If you talk to him, stick to the plan. DO NOT DEVIATE! Tell him exactly what you said in the PBL. Tell him that you have given him a chance to proave himself right up until this Sunday. After that, you will preceed on with Plan B and darkness.

He is right there Mimi. All he needs is one more push, IMO. But, if you push wrong...you will push him in the wrong direction. He needs a little more panic, a little more pain in his life. The addict is just about there. DO NOT ENABLE HIM!

We are here for you. You are hours, and even a few days away from this all coming to fruition. As I said to Now What...do not go belly-up and go soft on us. Your husband, whether he knows it or not, is counting on you to be strong and do the right thing. Because right now, he still doesnt know how.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>I'm getting depressed now. I'm sorry I told you about the date. I had to give a date to my boss to get off. I'm getting fed up with this crap and want to give up. It seems like I can't do anything right. I feel like meeting with my WS and saying forget it. HELP ME!!!! I'm confused and losing it now.

You seem to feel like he is playing me and to me he seems sincere. Who do I believe? You guys who I don't know or a man I have loved for 30 years?

I'm struggling and doing the best that I can. I feel like you guys are ganging up against me. What's wrong with wanting to believe in him some?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh no, we are very much FOR you around here! We are not the ones who betrayed you in an affair, Mimi. He is. But we have heard all this before from your H. And he was "sincere" then. And he will be "sincere" when changes the date again on September 12th.

He is playing games, Mimi. We can see right through it even though you don't want to see it. We want you to protect yourself and stop this game.

Please do not even for a moment think we are against you and go into defensive mode on us. We are in your corner, Mimi.

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I love you guys but you have to understand that this is about maintaining my sanity. I can't bear it any longer. Really. I will not take another weekend with my WS with the OW. I told him that today. If he does it again, it's over for me. The pain of this is too unbearable.

It's like a cancer patient. Do you tell the pt. straight up "face it, the chemotherapy is not working you will die soon." No, even though the pt. has a slim chance of survival you do not want the pt. to give up hope in the midst of treatment.

I am going to maintain my hopefulness this week. Otherwise, I will become depressed. I don't think it's fair for you to be so sure Melody. What do you want me to do just give up? That's what I want to do when I hear you say "We can see right through it". That makes me feel like I am stupid. If he is really as you say he is, Melody, I don't want him. That does not seem like a MBing place to be. Is that what you guys are saying? That I don't need to be with my husband. I'm so confused now. I know he betrayed me but am I not supposed to try to forgive him?

If he doesn't follow through by Monday, I will go dark as promised. However, today, I have to remain hopeful. Until that time, I have to believe that he will keep his promise to me. He said he would again this evening. He said it would be Sunday or Monday. He said September 12th is the day that he wants us to go away. He may be lying but he does seem desperate for me not to go dark again. He seems to respect me. You see, now I'm questioning my reality of thinking that I had gained his respect.

I may have to go away from here. I don't want to but I am not feeling the love here today for some reason. I feel better when I am in denial. I guess that's human nature.

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi, no one is asking you to throw in the towel. Only to set boundaries and not let him trampede over them as he has done before. The more he is allowed to do so, the longer he stays with the OW and more threatened your sanity becomes.

I agree 100% with MM's suggestion that you set your boundary and stick with it. You gave him until Sunday and letting him change that boundary again only prolongs your pain. He has been telling you this for some time now. So he has demonstrated in the past that he will use this to prolong contact with the OW.

Now, of course you are not stupid, Mimi, but we know from experience that intense hopefulness will do some strange things to one's viewpoint. We have all been there ourselves. And as your FRIENDS, and people who want the best for you, we would be remiss in pointing out the red flags here. There is not a person here who doesn't hope that he is absolutely sincere this time, Mimi.

But friends don't give friends false hope, they give them the truth, no matter how hard. So please just hear what we say, use what you want and leave the rest, ok?

Mimi:

Whatever you decide 2 do, remember this: You CANNOT do this wrong. This is your life, he is your H, and only YOU can define the plans and set the standards as 2 what is appropriate for you 2 do. And only YOU can determine, based on your feedback with him, what is the right way 2 address your H's behavior right now.

We're all still here for you if you need us. But in the end, this is YOUR plan.

best,
-2long

Mimi, everyone here wants the best for you, and that means happiness that you want!
It isn't about being stupid dear. Haven't you ever heard that sometimes we're so close to someone we really can't see them? outsiders see a lot more than the spouse does because we do love, hope and dream!
with all that said, is he going to be through with OW before the Sept 12th trip? Or will this be like the last one and he came home to return to her? I sincerely hope not.
Maybe I've read too much and not really read enough to see about the plan for Sept 12.
From the others here who have worked a Plan B successfully though, I'd say no trip unless the NC letter has been delivered and he's done with her for good. And you have to have proof of that, or I would.
Remember, you don't have to listen to anyone else, You can do exactly what you feel like doing.
But if returning to the same type of relationship you've had for months is what you want, that is what you'll get if you quit now.
You've come too far and made such great progress all on your own! You're the one who did the plan, Mimi. All you got here were the tools, and instructions, but you did the work!
Why does it surprise you so many of us do not trust? We've been there ourselves.
You do know your H better than anyone. You also have brought everyone here up on who he is and what he's done.
Did you not trust him back in March? or was it FEB? he set up a trip for you two and said it was over by 4/1 or am I mistaken?
You trusted, and I remember how happy you were at that time.
I think what others are saying is they don't want that to happen to you again! Even hercules can only take so much weight!
No, I don't know him, but I wouldn't trust anything said. It has to be actions for it to mean anything. Words are so plentiful to all.
Sort of like, "Can you hear me now"? Yeah, I hear you, now show me the phone!
It's all set evidently for him to make his break, NC letter, etc. And the trip.
Question is, will you go away if the NC letter has not been delivered? if he's still living at her dump?
And will he continue to dangle trips in front of you while he hesitates?
Nobody wants you going in circles here.
You love your H, I love mine too. But I do know they're still lying, deceiving jerks as long as they want to be and as long as we allow them to be.
He's already broken promises a few times, so while you may believe him, most of us can't until he's done the work. There can be no trust while actions are dormant. Trust, but verify.
When your H proves his word is good, I'll be the first to applaud the man! And wish you every happiness. Until then though, there is no way to trust him in my opinion. The tongue is a glib thing. The heart is totally separate! Once I've been lied to, no one gets my trust again based on their word!
LouLou

I went back to reread so I'm sure what I read. LOL
No, I wouldn't give him the story that you need more time. Why let him buy himself more time at your expense?
BTW,he keeps breaking his word. So if Sept 12 came and he says two more weeks, one more week, he'd have himself a packett of papers to sign before the end of week! You think you can't live without him, but you are and have for many months! He's been playing this waiting game for months. Lying all the way.
Sorry, but I'd be suspicious on what else he's planning on how to stab me in the back financially or otherwise.
Anybody else here thought of that? Sounds like he's buying himself a lot of time for more than his addiction to OW.
I am not going to respond If I can help it until I see the proof and can say, Mea Culpa!
End of this week my [censored]. Sorry, but it's so obvious this man had no intention of this week and most likely not Sept 12 this year or next!
While he's playing his game and having a field day with keeping control, Mimi's life will be dwindling away!
He is definitely in full control of this issue right now!
As long as you go along with it Mimi, he'll figure you're sitting waiting even in dark and he can keep your string pulled anytime he wishes.
Nobody may like it, but these are the facts I see here and now.
I will keep my mouth shut from now on, until, or when the time comes to say Congratulations to Mimi.
I say if a man loves his wife truly, he would quit pampering himself and OW and get on with his marriage. He's not afraid of anything. He has got to be one of the worlds best con artist!

LouLou

Mimi!!!!!

I LOVE YA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

45 PAGE POST..

666 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> REPLIES...(OK THAT NUMBER IS CREEPY....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

BUT I LOVE YOU...

ARE YOU FEELING IT YET...????

ARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lou:

I really appreciate your post to me. It sunk in. It stuck. I heard you.

He does seem different this time than last time. The trip is not a big thing for me. I'm not doing anything without the NC letter. He knows about the letter requirement and refers to this along with other conditions I stated on the PBL. In fact, I really don't want him to leave her under duress. I want him to leave her and come back to me when he chooses to and wants to do ti -whether its Sept 12th or December 12th.

To All of you:
Continue to keep me in your prayers. I'm struggling. I know you care.

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Ok ARK!!!

I told you, spoiled brat!

Some people like me will do anything for attention. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wait a minute, Lou.
You changed to a different person in your second post. Do you have a split personality? I really agreed with your first post and then you got a little paranoid on me.

Whoa, hold on. My WS is really bringing out the anger in you. He really is not that bad. Really. This is getting out of hand.

I'll just report back to you guys if he keeps his promise. Bye.

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi --
Don't leave now.
You need this place more than ever right now.

You have done a TEXTBOOK Plan A and B. AND ITS WORKING.

We don't want to see your hopefulness cause you to slip your boundries back for the next 2 weeks.
Then H gets his "fix" of you, and continues to cakewalk.

Thats what tends to happen when you relax the boundries Mimi. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile.

You've been the MB Queen -- please keep it up as a shining example to all BS's. And don't leave now, you need the resolve and support everyone can give you.

If you are sensing that we are raining on your parade, please just think of it as keeping you on the parade route instead of letting you take a detour!

Mimi,

Read what YOU have said to me. DO NOT leave now and DO NOT give up now!

NW

Mimi,

I know that you are there because the title of your thread was changed in the last few minutes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> DO NOT give up now!

NW

Mimi,

Whether he keeps his promise or not, make sure you stay as best as you can be. You are near the brink of a turning point. This is NOT the time to be throwing any towel anywhere - ya hear?!?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now give me that towel and you go back to washing the dishes. I'll dry. Watch out for th knives...... I come from a long line of samurai's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

quote by NewBranch:
Remember, you don't have to listen to anyone else, You can do exactly what you feel like doing.

My thoughts are as always..... It is not so much Plan A or Plan B..... Many people seem to get so caught up in "what plan are you in?".... as if it is the plan that works......

What works is this.... confidence, self respect, and NO PRESSURE..... Pressure just does not work...... they have to come back because they CHOOSE to come back..... if not, it just seems like work and living up to rules to them.(which usually turns them off)

Just like people trying to pressure you to stick to plan B.... I have noticed that the more they try to talk you into it and pressure you to listen to their point of view, the more you seem to want to resist it.......

Do what you want.... There are no "shoulds" or "should nots"..... If he comes home, fine... if not, that's fine too.... If you believe he is sincere, that's ok.... live in the moment. be happy just the way things are.... no pressure.....
Be nice... Be confident... have self respect....
stop the relationship talks...

This is what will work the best... Plan B seems to work the best when these things are present...
When the WS feels pressure and gets the idea that their are a bunch of rules, they naturally want to
fight against that pressure.......

Don't worry about what plan your are in.... Stay focused on your "attitude".

As Dr.Dobson says.......
"Respect, the CRITICAL ingredient in human affairs is demonstrated by, quiet dignity, self confidence and common courtesy."

I have found this to be true....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do what you want.... There are no "shoulds" or "should nots"..... If he comes home, fine... if not, that's fine too.... If you believe he is sincere, that's ok.... live in the moment. be happy just the way things are.... no pressure.....
Be nice... Be confident... have self respect....
stop the relationship talks...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly the POV that I had decided to take today before even reading your post. Where have you been KEEPMVNFORWARD? You understand me. Thanks for reminding me how effective Dobson's approach has been towards my WS since he left the first time. He responds negatively to pressure and likes to feel free that he is doing this on his own, at his own pace. He even responds to hearing that out loud.

I just want to be happy for the moment.

I work with very sick people in my job. The patients that cope best are the ones that "act as if". Even though they are dying, they don't give up hope and try to get as much pleasure as they can out of each minute of the day. It is "false hope" but they can endure through a tragic situation. This coping strategy is done by choice in order to make it. It is not done blindly. That is what I am doing.

Mimi,

I'm glad you are still here. I know how hard this all is. I understand everything that you are saying and I suspect everyone else does too because they have been there too. It is very difficult to manage your emotions and actions in such an intense situation that we find ourselves in. It is also hard to predict what another person is going to do with their emotions (H)based on your actions. I understand the pressure thing, my W has said as much. She told me that she does not want to feel forced into making a decision and told me that I am giving her an ultimatum. She has also said to me & her friend at different times that SHE has to decide things on her own. Should your H or my W even have become involved in a situation that they would have to make these decisions? Absolutly not. Is it fair to us? Nope, they violated us. We have to take the principles and advice learned from here and do the best that we can with our given situation. I will say that I feel many WS will push the envelope as far as they can before picking one side of the fence or another.

I am not going to offer any advice on what to do because afterall, look at me, what do I know? I just wanted you to know that I am here.

NW

MIMI, do not leave. I said I wouldn't post again until time to congratulate you, but I did have to ask you to stay.
Please remember from my previous post. I admitted no way could I do what some of you do, I would not be that strong.
So I come from my own position which is not yours!
The anger is due to having read you for months, and liking you, feeling much empathy for your pain and what you are enduring.
I don't know your H or you, I just took sides I suppose which is wrong of me.
You need these supporters here, many have been your rock so please do not leave!
I'm sorry I upset you, I would probably be the same as I did defend my H too against family.
I'm not a split personality. LOL NO.
I didn't endure what you have, so the second post was probably from trying to put myself in your position and how I'd react.
Again, I'm only posting to say sorry and stay. I will await your great news and pray it comes soon.
LouLou

Mimi,

There is no way that I am pushing some hard and fast rules. You know this. I have described before the transition period, etc. That being said, I want you to consider something.

When you say you are going to hold guarded optimism, I say GREAT! You should. It is what will help get you through. I as much as anyone here has said that I believe your husband is on his way home. Could he fail? Sure. But the evidence points towards recovery.

Okay? Can you now believe me that I do understand how you feel, and the things you have to do for YOURSELF to get through these last trying days?

Now, what does all of this have to do with your husband? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! You keep up that hope, you keep preparing yourself. You keep focused on that end result. But guess what? He doesnt need to know that. If he doesnt do what he said he would do, then he should live in Mimi-darkness until he does. IO know, I know. You KNOW your husband! But guess what? A lot of this is human nature.

I just got off the phone with Steve Harley (check out my thread in a few minutes with my update). One thing he told me is that these plans (Plan A/Plan B/Recovery Plan) are all based on the basics of human nature and on the basics of affairs. Most people dont deviate to far from the norm. He said it is like being sick. Each person is different. But remarkably, most people require the same medicine for that sickness to get well.

So, the "medicine" for what ails your husband has been shown to you over and over again. When you follow the doctors prescription, he begins to get well. But as Steve said today, we tend to not finish the whole bottle of medicine. We start feeling better, and stop taking the medicine. And then we never fully get rid of what ails us, and we are back in the doctors office a few weeks later...sicker than ever!

Every time your husband starts getting "well," you have stopped giving him his medicine. And in short order, he goes right back to being "sick" again.

Now, for the first time in all of this, I really believe he is on the edge of full recovery from his "sickness." He WANTS to get well. And he now knows he NEEDS to get well. But Mimi...you are still providing for his care. And he still has a couple of doses left of medicine before he can say the illness has left him and he can begin rehabilitation. You stop now...and the "sickness" that will grow from this will be so great, that it may not be able to be overcome again.

All I am saying, and I think most are saying here, is that it is okay for YOU to be optimistic. Shoot...I would even try to mentally fool myself there at the end so the pressure wouldnt overwhelm me. But when it came to my wife, I never showed it. She got tough love. She got Plan B. She got boundaries. And as soon as she was done with her medicine and the illness was gone (the OM), only then could we move onto the recovery.

Do what YOU have to do to survive! But at the same time, do not let up on what got you here. Your husband need not know what is going on with you right now. Let him worry about this Sunday. Let him panic because he may be pushing things too far. Dont reassure him! He has had enough of that over this, and with the PBL. You take the next two days to show him that you arekeeping your word. That you are there for him and are ready to start things, as he promised. You are ready to keep your word.

But Mimi...if that man doesnt keep HIS WORD, then all you can do is go dark. And pull completely away. I will bet my bottom dollar that even if that happens, he wont be gone for long. I believe that either he will make Sunday happen, or he will try to cake eat and push it further again. if you give in, he will just push it again. If you dont...then he will see that he has indeed crossed a line. He will panic. And he will soon be standing on your door.

My wife said what really brought her home was that I finally stood up to her. RESPECT. Steve even said it today...that the problems in these marriages are people that have lost respect and then show disrespect to each other. He needs to respect you. Dont you disappoint him.

In His arms.