</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Ah. That's what you meant.

However, I don't think Hitler needed any such license. In fact, he thought he was doing the world a favor!

-2long</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But that was exactly the license that Hitler took. He thought that good and bad was determined only by him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Labeling it and her as "bad" or "wrong" was exactly what kept me from progressing all this time. I quit that crap, and now we're progressing in leaps and bounds!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad that worked for you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Like I said on STTSI's "resentment thread" recently, I can't be grateful for the learning I've gotten as a result of my soul searching over the past 18 months if I continued 2 hold on2 the resentment I felt for my W's A. Labeling it and her as "bad" or "wrong" was exactly what kept me from progressing all this time. I quit that crap, and now we're progressing in leaps and bounds!

regards,
-2long</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2Long, do you have to call something "bad" good in order to get over your resentment? I mean, aren't some things really just bad? Aren't some things really just wrong? My husband's affair was not only wrong, it was BAD, it was destructive. But I didn't feel the need to change the truth in order to recover from my resentment. I got over my resentment just fine, but I did it without pretending like an affair isn't bad.

I am sorry, I do think an affair is a very bad thing and I would have a hard time living with such a manipulation of the truth. I am glad that you found acceptance that way, but I found acceptance without doing that.

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Mel:

"But that was exactly the license that Hitler took. He thought that good and bad was determined only by him."

No, it wasn't. He thought that he was doing good by exterminating what he judged was bad.

ol' 2long should never have posted 2 this thread. Hurts ol' 2long's noodle, it does!

-2long.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>Mel:

"But that was exactly the license that Hitler took. He thought that good and bad was determined only by him."

No, it wasn't. He thought that he was doing good by exterminating what he judged was bad.

ol' 2long should never have posted 2 this thread. Hurts ol' 2long's noodle, it does!

-2long.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't understand your point of disagreement. It was exactly that. That statement implies that there is no good or bad, only thinking that makes it so. Hilter thought he was doing GOOD. He was doing BAD, but "thought" he was doing good. If there is no standard of good or bad, that is a license to do anything.

wow e, this thread starts with Jen Brown's statement and turns into a debate and then I ask where God is in this and no one knows and now we are talking about Hitler. I think this thread should die a peaceful death. But hey, that is just my humble opinion!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On that note, maybe we should put this thread out of its misery.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
if I continued 2 hold on2 the resentment I felt for my W's A. Labeling it and her as "bad" or "wrong" was exactly what kept me from progressing all this time. I quit that crap, and now we're progressing in leaps and bounds!

do you have to call something "bad" good in order to get over your resentment? I mean, aren't some things really just bad? Aren't some things really just wrong? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think both of these statements is true.

I think there IS "bad" out there - and good out there, and both cross our paths but I think it's important HOW we deal with things, particularly the "bad" things that determines what happens to us.....how it affects us. Which direction it moves us in for our future.

If we allow ourselves to harbor, nurture, feed the feelings of not deserving the "bad" thing that has happened to us, only makes it take on a life of its own, and gives it power over us.

In some ways, it's a lot like this thread!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Could explain why God commands us to forgive each other. Yeah, bad things happen. BUT our reactions to them affect us way more than the "bad thing."

Interesting directions this thread keeps taking....

God Bless,

Good and bad are labels, they are meaningless without context, maybe that is what shakespeare was getting at. And indeed much good or bad is in the eye of the beholder, depends on how narrow the focus is. But I do think there is absolute good and bad, and I think it can be unambiguously defined so as to be clear to anyone at any degree of focus. But that doesn't happen much.

On the other hand maybe shakespeare meant what he said, but if he did then another way of stating his position is that each of us is God, was he a new ager?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On that note, maybe we should put this thread out of its misery.

Jen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I has tried 2x ... maybe we all should listen to acaza.com, a christian rock internet radio <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> instead.
-rh-

Indeed rh, indeed.

Or perhaps one of us could do something wildly inappropriate and against MB rules so that the moderator shuts down the thread, lol.

Jen

Rh- don't you see? Your good idea is ignored because people are too fired up on their opinions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Jen Brown- GREAT IDEA!!! What should we say? I'm in- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (laughing an 'evil' laugh! hahahahahaha)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>Indeed rh, indeed.

Or perhaps one of us could do something wildly inappropriate and against MB rules so that the moderator shuts down the thread, lol.

Jen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh I don't know Jen. There are other much longer threads about, the kingdom of carelon has been going on for months and hundreds of pages. Why shut this one down?

Actually I find it interesting that ending the thread has even come up, or that posters have dropped in for no other purpose than to suggest ending it. Why do you suppose that is?

Perhaps it would be safer to talk about waxy buildup or the weather, lest we upset anyone's tender sensibilities with a spirited debate about religion and philosophy? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My favorite sink cleanser is Soft Scrub with a fresh lemon scent. What does everyone else prefer? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I prefer Lysol, and I think that people suggested ending it because it went all over the board with the original thread person not getting her answers but getting the thread hijacked instead.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong>I prefer Lysol, and I think that people suggested ending it because it went all over the board with the original thread person not getting her answers but getting the thread hijacked instead.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">s...Nope, IMO melody knows why, and I concur. Jen herself noted and encouraged debate at different junctures. Further when and if Jen responds anymore with questions or needs I am confident she will be accomodated. In any event ending the thread also does not get her any answers, so how does that help? Which means of course that isn't the reason. Let me ask you (or anyone) does this thread make you uncomfortable? Does that have anything to do with wanting to end it? What are the real reasons (anyone) wants to end this thread deliberately...as opposed the the usual process which is that threads just die their own natural death. There has to be an agenda, anyone brave enough to actually post their real feelings/reasons?

Sufdb,
Thanks for asking my feelings or opinions. The thread itself does not make me uncomfortable. The only time it makes me uncomfortable is when someone else's opinion is shoved down another's throat or when it gets judgmental. My main beef with the thread, and maybe it would be best for me to stay off of it, is that around post 50 I said that the scripture reference was wrong. No one acknowledged this until around post 110. It was an innocent enough mistake and there is no problem with the mistake itself because the scripture IS in the Bible, it just happened to be in Matthew instead of 1 Corinthians.
Then I added that I wondered where God was in all of this and if people prayed over these things before expressing their opinions that could in fact influence another's life. God is the only source of real truth we have. Other people mean well and can think and pray and give thoughtful answers but in reality it is between you and God. Again, no one acknowledged this post. So I guess my main problem is that not only I, but several others, have gotten looked over in this thread either because people are too hot and heavy into the debate or don't care enough about what someone else says or maybe innocently enough, just don't pay attention or know what to say.
WIth that said, my main concern was just that it turned into a debate about who knows what and turned into a legalism thing instead of a personal decision between you and the Lord.

<small>[ July 16, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

The problem with a thread like this one is that it becomes a preaching podium on religion and not on marriage building.

How is it that TMCM and JL are so good at putting things simply? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think the only thing that this thread proves is that a great many of us are still very, very stuck with the desire to be right rather than happy.

It ceased to be for or about Jen Brown a long time ago, and became a pulpit for expressing that desire to be right above all else, our fellow man included.

A sad state of affairs, indeed.

Thanks for asking my feelings or opinions.

s...u r welcome.

ad...The thread itself does not make me uncomfortable. The only time it makes me uncomfortable is when someone else's opinion is shoved down another's throat or when it gets judgmental.

s...I concur, that should make any well-meaning responsible person uncomfortable. But it is not a reason to end a discussion (except as a personal choice made by each participant).

ad...My main beef with the thread, and maybe it would be best for me to stay off of it, is that around post 50 I said that the scripture reference was wrong. No one acknowledged this until around post 110.

s..I noticed the delay, I suspect it was because the location wasn't too relevant to the issue, long as the Scripture was correct. But I did note your effort to make that correction. Not being a Biblical specialist (in any sense) I didn't comment myself.

ad...Then I added that I wondered where God was in all of this and if people prayed over these things before expressing their opinions that could in fact influence another's life. God is the only source of real truth we have. Again, no one acknowledged this post.

s...I was on that page with you. And said similar things, I am not sure anyone would respond specifically, since it is a postion, and opposing positions are inherently obvious when made. I do think in this kind of venue there is a natural economy of words (both intentional and unintentional), which can be annoying, but is just the way it is.

ad...So I guess my main problem is that not only I, but several others, have gotten looked over in this thread either because people are too hot and heavy into the debate or don't care enough about what someone else says or maybe innocently enough, just don't pay attention or know what to say.

s...Hmm.. maybe you have a "need" for validation (and that is ok). This is one of those things hard to know (or keep straight) because of the numbers of posters, and annonymity of the site. So while it may "feel" neglectful, I choose to think (when happens to me) that most likely I was read and contemplated regardless of anyone specifically saying so. And most likely further responses by folks reflect that likelihood. But for the record I read and contemplated all your posts.

ad...WIth that said, my main concern was just that it turned into a debate about who knows what and turned into a legalism thing instead of a personal decision between you and the Lord.

s...And so you advocate on that issue, if you want. But again, that has nothing to do with taking a proactive stance to "end" a thread deliberately..right?

TMCM...The problem with a thread like this one is that it becomes a preaching podium on religion and not on marriage building.

s...So? Meaning should threads be censored to fit anyones specific notion of relevance? Clearly religion plays a huge role in marriage and cannot be removed from marriage building, so seems fine to have such discussions, until the thread dies it's own natural death. I can see your point (a little) should something completely morph into a pure religion debate, but my sense is most of the religious threads revolve around marital and related issues (like obedience, legalism, authority etc.). Don't see too much discussion over say....um the validity of the shroud of Turing or some such...what do you think?

ad...How is it that TMCM and JL are so good at putting things simply?

s...cause they leave out other relevant factors? just kidding, sometimes simplicity is good, othertimes issues are such that simlicity does not work.

space...I think the only thing that this thread proves is that a great many of us are still very, very stuck with the desire to be right rather than happy.

s....could this post be an example of that focus? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

space...It ceased to be for or about Jen Brown a long time ago, and became a pulpit for expressing that desire to be right above all else, our fellow man included.

s...scratching my head. Tell me, oh tell me pray tell, how does one advocate a positon if they think they are wrong? (assuming one is mentally healthy, and not including devils advocacy). Space the heart and soul of issues oriented debate is passionate belief in your convictions (hopefully with an open mind as well though). It makes no sense any other way. Further, allthough some get off on gratuitious arguing (just for the sake of arguing), I think this process of vigorous debate is how one ascertains what they believe, and whether they should continue to do so.

space...A sad state of affairs, indeed.

s...What other state do you propose? If you refer to Jen, she is quite capable of stating any personal concerns she has, and will be heard (I think)...no harm, no foul.