As I've said before, this board has given me more insight into Christianity than I have ever had before. Sometimes the insight has been very positive, sometimes very negative. Sometimes, I just can't tell.

In this case, well, I'm awfully glad that 2oak posted what he did. I'm no Bible scholar, but something in what MM had to say rang very wrong to me.

From a completely different point of view, Georgie, perhaps you should be asking God how best to raise your children and what's right for them? I have no idea what the answer might be. But taking it out of the framework of marriage and into the framework of the best interests of your children. God surely has something to say about both things, and maybe that'll help you work it through in your own mind.

Whatever you do and whatever advice you get here or elsewhere, please make sure that you make your decision a loving, considered one, with what's best for you, your family, and both your XH and your current H firmly in mind. No matter what we say here, this is YOUR life, and sometimes the right choice is the one that every single person tells you is wrong.

Georgie,

Go talk to your Pastor...does he knows you and your situation?

It's easy to give advice when you don't have all the pieces.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You need real spiritual guidance, one way or the other.

You might be interested in www.rejoiceministries.org. Others have posted about them on here.

I wanted to follow up here, because I can see that there are some negative connotations to what I posted above. And I didnt mean that to happen, necessarily.

As EVERYONE has said here, Georgie, you should go and talk to your pastor. Lay everything out there, all of these issues raised by yourself, and others, and find out what he thinks in relation to Scripture. This is always the smart thing to do.

Second, I have no doubt that one of the biggest reasons you ae thinking of pursuing this is the love of your children and the possibility that they could have their family back together. Your motivations are good, and your heart is in the right place.

But, God has also spelled out that the heart is deceitful...it is decrepit at its very base. We must think with our heads, if we are to know what is TRULY best for us, and our children. And what is ALWAYS truly best for us is what is God's will. His direction, his laws, his love...all of those are always good for us.

He makes rules for our own purpose, to keep us safe and healthy, as well as those around us. Too often in this society, we believe that as long as someone's heart is pure and they are sincere, that it is okay what they are doing. But according to God, that is about as wrong as we can be. You see, we can be sincere, and at the same time, be sincerely wrong. We may be wrong due to ignorance, or lack of judgment. But we would be wrong, nonetheless.

It is like the wino on the corner. Is dropping a buck in his can helping him? Not really. Sure, my heart is in the right place. And a few bucks like that, and he could get a meal. But, where does that leave him? Broke, and hungry again in short order. What would be better, if we TRULY want to help, is to get him into a place that he can get help for his problems, teach him a skill, whatever. It is like the old saying "Give him a fish, and he eats today. Teach him to fish, and he eats for a lifetime."

We can help someone with the goodness of our hearts, and not really be helping them. My wife works as a nurse. One thing she tells me is that very soon after surgery, the nurses get the patients up and around, moving around. Of course, this is very painful, and it looks like the nurses at best, dont care...and at worse, love to inflict pain. But, it is that moving around that helps the patient heal faster, and staves off other maladies that come from post-surgery. So, they do what is painful to the patient, for the greater good of the patient.

And so does God. Many times in our pain, we cannot see how a loving God would let us go through it. Why He doesnt allow us to opt out of being moved around after surgery, so to speak. The rules he has for us dont make sense when we are in that pain.

But it is after the crisis is over, after we are healed, that we truly understand the "why" of what He has done. And we are so very thankful.

Why does God detest remarriage to a former spouse after you have married someone else? Again, I am not sure. I am waiting on MY PASTOR to email me back with that answer. But I am assured, due to faith and everything God has written and shown me, that Deut. 24 is there for a VERY good reason...and it is there for us. Again, God NEVER contradicts Himself, and He NEVER issues arbitrary rules.

What Georgie should be asking herself, and her pastor, is the same thing I am asking mine. Why is that rule there? Why does God find marriage under those conditions detestable? Because knowing the reason for that, will allow her, and all of us, to understand what the real loving and compassionate thing to do is. And we wont have followed our hearts...we will have used our heads.

I am not a pastor, nor do I play one on TV. I am a Christian who very much seeks the truth of God. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I believe that He speaks to Christians through the Holy Spirit in order to guide us. I believe that He uses our fellow Christians to help guide us also, and build us up. Many times, the answers to questions I have prayed on have come through just fellow believers, not from my pastor. That is why I study, and try to learn more. Not to become a pastor. but to be able to live this life as God wills, and at the same time, to be able to help my brothers and sisters.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But so far, the Scriptures have shown that this is not allowed. That it is detestable to God. Maybe there is something in the New Testament that I am missing. maybe God no longer finds that detestable. Maybe He changed His mind. Maybe He likes the idea now (obviously He didnt at one time). But I have yet to find that. I have yet to find Him saying that He finds divorce okay. Instead, He still issues the same Old Tesstament decree...that He HATES divorce (Malachi 2). All divorce. Even for reasons of unfaithfulness. He HATES it! Because it destroys so many lives...for several generations.

And so, I see that His Old Testament position that He finds this sort of remarriage detestable as something He still believes. And if true, I am sure it is for a good reason...because He is a whole lot smarter than me.

I would love it, if I am wrong about this, to find where God has changed His mind about this being detestable, to something that He wants and loves. Because I too wish that Georgie and her kids had that life again. That those kids' mom and dad in the same house is what everyone wants. Including God. But God also limited that. He said that He wants reconciliation in marriages and families. But reconciliation under these conditions, is detestable. Again, there is such a thing as too late.

When we die, it is too late to come to Jesus and ask to be saved. It is too late. You dont get another shot. Is that unloving of God? Is that uncompassionate? If He wants all of us to come to Him, if He is a God of love, then how could He deny someone who has just died, who sees where they were wrong, and is now pleading for forgiveness...how can He deny Him salvation then? Because it is too late. There is a time when what we do cannot be reversed. A just God cannot just arbiotrarily wipe away sins. He cant wipe them away anyway...because that would make Him unholy. They have to be paid for.

He allowed His Son to take those sins upon Himself. But, in doing so, He stated that there is one certain condition for His Son to take your sins...and that is accepting Him as your Lord and Savior. That's the rule. He didnt have to send His Son. He could have let all of us die. But since He did, it is beyond me how we can question how a person who is getting saved, can question how they are being saved.

It is like a man who is overcome by smoke in his house. The fireman comes in, finds him...throws him over his back, and takes him to safety. But during the exit, it got kind of rough, and the man who was being saved was bounced around a little...and actually received a broken arm. And then the man wanted to sue!! He wanted to complain about how he was saved. How ungrateful. That fireman could have just left him there to his doom. But he risked his own life to save this man's. And not so much as a thank you. Just complaints about bruises and a broken arm.

We need to get back to what's important here. What is the MOST important thing here, for Christians, is our relationship with God. Our walk with Him. Our faith and trust in Him. Our own pains, our children, everything is second to that. "What is it for a man to gain the whole world, and still lose his soul?" Another way of saying that is "What is it for a man to find happiness his own way, but still miss out on the true meaning of his life?" You cant take it with you. Your wealth, your house, your kids...none of it. The only thing you take with you is your relationship (or lack thereof) with Jesus. If you have that relationship, then He will meet you on the other side of death and welcome you home, just as the prodigal son was. But if you dont have that relationship with Him, then Jesus will look at you and say "I never knew you." And then, it wont matter how good a father or mother you were...or how good at your job you were...or how big your heart was. You will be where even the most evil people who have ever existed will go. Your heart in the end will not save you. Only that relationship with Him will.

If we are to have that relationship with Him, then we had best listen to what He says. To what He likes. To what He doesnt like. If He says He hates something...should we do it anyway? Do you think that it might strain the relationship a little (or a lot)? Do you think that He will just stand idly by and say "That's okay..I still love you...all is forgiven." And all ofthe consequences are removed?

How loving is that? It isnt. A God like that I want no part of. I want a God that will do what is necessary to help me remain in His presence. Whatever it takes! If it took my wife getting into an affair for me to wake up fro mwhere I was headed, then I am glad for this pain...and eventually, I may even be able to accept that this horrible thing has been used for my own good.

This situation, in the end, for Georgie, will be turned for her own good, and her children's own good, IF she follows Jesus and maintains that relationship.

Georgie, I continue to pray for you and your ex-husband. I continue to search the Scriptures for the answer, because I too would love for God to allow your children to have their family together again. Please see your pastor. Please pray and search the Scriptures. Find the answers to these questions (I am doing so also). Never, ever take the word of anyone (including your pastor). If someone tells you something, go to the Word and find it. Make sure they are right. Because even the most sincere person, who is trying to help you, may be leading you astray. It could be me, even.

Go and find out. Post back here what you find, for all of our edification.

In His arms.

For sufdb: No affairs I’m aware of.

The present husband: - My marriage to my 2nd husband (Greg) lasted 8 months, with 6 of those months in Christian marriage counselling. He was removed from our home with the police in attendance 20 months ago for abuse. I haven't seen, spoken or corresponded with him except through a lawyer to obtain the restraining order. The simple thought of talking to this man through 'any' medium TERRIFIES me. My children are also afraid of him. The atmosphere in our home changed drastically when he was out of it. We all noticed the lack of tension and how comfortable we felt once again. My faith in God and 'only' with His help am I'm finally off all medication to assist with sleeping and the classic case of clinical depression this relationship put me in. So with an extremely emphatic answer of 'NO', I will not pursue reconciliation with this man whom I should never had married in the first place! I also believe very strongly that he would not want to reunite either since I wasn’t able to live up to his rules and regulations.

The former husband: (married 17 ½ yrs.) - Since my children and I were living in Alberta and their father (John) in B.C., the only contact we had was via the phone when the children called him or vice versa. [For several years] Very occasionally was there an email and ALL these conversations were based on the children; how they were doing, etc. This contact with him was always lighthearted and many times full of laughter as we were able to rebuild a friendship. Approx. 6 months ago, topics of these phone calls shifted to 'us' and I revealed to him that since the recent revival at our church I felt God wanted me to return to B.C. I didn’t know how I could possibly afford to move as I was working part time and had no money left over each month to save for a big move like this.

Through prayer and much faith, funds started to appear from many sources. Refund cheques from the Government, income tax mistakes were discovered resulting in more Government cheques sent to me. Opportunities for me to do respite care arose with my employment, doubling my wages!! Look what happens when you put your faith totally in God!! I knew He wanted me back in BC, although I still didn’t know His plan for me or what I was to do once there. John flew out to drive the moving van for us so I could drive my car. It has only been a couple of months that we have had the opportunity to talk face to face. What has surprised us is the fact that it feels very much like we have both awoken from a bad dream and were never apart.

For Mortarman: Are you a Bible scholar?

Thank-you and bless you for all the time you have spent on this thread! It is very possible that you have touched many others with your wisdom and knowledge of His Word. I have no doubt that God is very pleased with you and I thank you for your prayers.

After reading your first post, I was devastated but that was solely because I believe you had found the truths I was looking for but really didn’t want to know. I ‘must’ put God first in my life ‘always’ for only He will give me life eternal. The rest of that day and night, I spent with my Bible and God in prayer. I shouldn’t have been so surprised when I awoke the next day to a feeling of great peace and joy. God will make the ultimate decision for me. I now pray for discernment. I won't dispute His will for my life.

It will take up to a year to obtain a divorce from Greg. (Presuming he cooperates) Since I don’t know where he is or how to contact him, it may be less time than this.
I will spend this time seeking God’s will for my future. God will make it very clear what He wants me to do just as He has done in the past. Thank-you for your diligence and research MM. I will keep you posted as I learn and am grateful to you for doing the same.

For 2ofaKind and Just J: Thank-you for speaking up!

You have brought to light some great examples from the Bible to support your beliefs on this issue.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> “if you pray and ask His guidance with this and really look at what he puts in your heart I think the answer will be there.”
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree whole-heartedly with this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> “Only God knows whether he wants your original family to be restored.. I have a feeling he will tell you if you ask with an open heart/mind. Personally? I believe nothing would please God more than to see you raising your children with their father in a loving, Christian home.”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, only God knows, and it would be wonderful if this were true! The Bible clearly states that I am now an adulteress and am not to return to my first husband since I am defiled. Our awesome God has a plan and I will follow it to the best of my understanding. Who knows? Only God! Could He have yet another miracle planned for me in my life? We’ll see!

For marque: I’m sceptical!

My Pastor in Alberta knows my situation. That church saw me through 2 relationships. After John and I split, the church was very supportive. When I remarried, they started to withdraw. Then when they saw that marriage fail also, I felt judged and was. The children also spoke to me of how they felt alienated by other members of the church. Unfortunately Christians are more critical of Christians than non-Christians are. They have no idea what is in another’s heart. Only God knows this.

We have found a wonderful supportive church here in BC. The Pastor of this church sees us all going to church together and was referring to John as my husband. I felt badly letting him believe this so told him that we were no longer married. I have left it at that for now, not telling him of the marriage to Greg yet. I would rather my past stay in my past for now and enjoy the acceptance I feel in this new church. I would dearly love to talk to him for advice but instead chose to come to this board and have emailed a couple of Pastors who offer Christian marriage advice. Strangely these Pastors both had different answers to me, as is happening on this board.

I have emailed Focus on the Family; a short distance from my home and after receiving a reply email from them, I am waiting for a phone call from one of their counsellors.

For Lor: Hijack away girl!

I am so glad I chose this Forum to post to. I hope and pray that in some small way, my issues have served to assist others feeling as trapped as I was and that the responses posted here may guide others to lean on Christ for guidance in their life decisions. Jeremiah states that only God knows the plans He has for us.

In God's Grace and love,
Your sister in Christ,
Georgie

Obviously this ain't my business...

BUT - I am not sure where it says in the bible that we can divorce someone who is beating the crap out of us but I believe the IMPLICATION is somewhat clear.

At any rate, your thread and Mort's research made me pull out my Bible and do some reading - which I had forgotten to do lately so THANKS!

At any rate - Please do talk to your pastor and perhaps some others, I am specifically interested in the freedom from the law that Christ gave us in addition to cleansing of sins.

The Bible is a very short book in some ways - I have reread certain passages on numerous occasions when different issues were facing me. Each time the reading and prayers for discernment (good word) were answered and I did feel at peace with the result - and when i ignored what I was told I had to have the Almighty's boot lodged in my rear before I figured it out :-)

Y'know, when you work like crazy trying to figure out His will sometimes a good long walk and quiet time results in answers...

You'll find'm :-)

Thank-you 2OfaKind

I'm very happy you pulled out your Bible again! Praise the Lord!

As far as I know, the only reason God will allow divorce is for adultery or unfaithfulness. Adultery is clear but unfaithfulness may be open to interpretation. I've opted for the 'clear' option.

I believe that adultery was committed thus my blessings from God on a divorce. [as stated in my first post]

Yes, I am actively seeking advice from different Pastors and Christian counsellors. I'm looking forward to hearing what MM's Pastor has to say, too. You are right on with your advice about slowing down to hear God speak. An open mind and heart is all we need to hear from God and to know what direction He would have us go. No neon signs flashing in the sky, that's for sure! :-)

God Bless you!
Georgie

24:1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

2ofakind said this was not ambiguous and was clear, but I am not so sure. Read carefully. "IF a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her"-
Well, Georgie's H divorced her because he had OW. There was nothing 'indecent' necessarily about Georgie. HE just made the poor choice of committing adultery and divorced her. So has Georgie really been defiled??
I think that is open to prayer and interpretation. If Georgie's ex has truly repented and they can repair a marriage damaged by adultery I think that if God is leading you in that direction, that he would honor the marriage. Very important though- you need to finalize your divorce with Greg before spending any more time with John, or you are having an EA and that is not in God's will I don't think.
Don't listen to my opinion though about something I am sure of- just think about it for yourself and put it heavily into prayer. I do not take a legalistic approach to Christianity so I do believe God forgives and while there are consequences, your sins are forgotten in His eyes.

Hi adgirl

I think it's okay to be spending time with John as our 14 yr. old son is always with us. We go to church on Sundays, then to watch our son play soccer on Tues, Thurs and Sat. We may rent a video but again, it's the three of us.

Sometimes, like Paul, we will find that God answers prayer by giving us not what we ask for but something better. 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 - Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away. Each time he said "....My power works best in your weakness."

I feel like I'm playing a game of tug of war with myself. One moment I feel pulled to wanting to believe God wants us back together as a family again and will forgive me if I'm wrong. The next moment, I'm determined that Deuteronomy has it all wrapped up in easy to understand black and white text. That's free will for you!

ADGirl,

I hear what you are saying. And if we justtake Deut. 24 by itself, one could certainly interpret it that way. But one Scripture does not stand alone. It must be taken in its entirety.

First off, what is a divroce? What is a legal divorce according to God? Is it going down to the courthouse and getting that piece of paper? When is the marriage actually over with andthey are no longer husband and wife?

The marriage is for a lifetime. God said what He has joined together, let no man tear apart. it is a bond that cannot be broken, EXCEPT upon death.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rmoans 7:1 Now, dear brothers and sisters--you who are familiar with the law--don't you know that the law applies only to a person who is still living? 2Let me illustrate. When a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. 3So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question here is that if this is true, then how can God allow divorce for adultery? I mean, her husband didnt die, did he? And if he didnt die, then she is still joined to him.

Well, going back to the original text, one can find that the meaning of death here has multiple meanings. Of course, physical death releases you from the bond of marriage. But what many dont know is that spiritual death can also release you from your marriage. That is what adultery is...it is a spiritual death, one where God then allows divorce. With adultery, the two are no longer bound togther, just as if one spouse had physically died.

Now, if someone commits adultery one time, are they spiritually dead? Maybe. Spiritual death is where the Christian is in rebellion and will no longer come under God's law and obey. I spelled out in a previous post above concerning rebellion, so I wont go into that.

But how do we know when someone is spiritually dead? Well, in the physical sense, we know due to certain symptoms (stop breathing, heart stops, no pulse, etc). But, even with those symptoms, how do we know this person is physically dead? Well, a doctor or coroner examines this person a declares them dead.

How do we know that a person who has received Jesus as their savior is spiritually dead (remember, those that arent Christians are already spiritually dead due to Adam)? Well, God spells out how to do that...and it has nothing to do with the local courthouse. And it certainly isnt their spouse declaring them spiritually dead. It is God's "coroner" on Earth...the church.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Matthew 18:15 "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the fault. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back.16But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses.17If that person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. If the church decides you are right, but the other person won't accept it, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector. 18I tell you this: Whatever you prohibit on earth is prohibited in heaven, and whatever you allow on earth is allowed in heaven.19"I also tell you this: If two of you agree down here on earth concerning anything you ask, my Father in heaven will do it for you.20For where two or three gather together because they are mine, I am there among them."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The bold emphasis is what I am getting to. In the Bible, who is someone that is a tax collector or pagan? It is someone who is spiritually dead. So, if the BS goes through this process, and the WS is still unrepentent, then the church declares that person spiritually dead...and with death, the BS is free to divorce and remarry. Verses 18-20 speak to the fact that God uses the church as his court, and that the just verdicts rendered by the church are thus accepted by Him.

So, we have a WS who wont repent. This person is a Christian. That spouse is taken before the church, and due to him not repenting, he is declared spiritually dead. The BS is now free to divorce and remarry. Just as if that spouse had physically died. And as I showed in the first passage of this post, it is only through death that we are allowed to remarry.

Want more proof? Jesus talked to the woman at the well. He asked her where was her husband. She said that she had no husband. Jesus then showed her that he knew her situation...that she had 5 husbands. Why 5? Because she never divorced properly the first four. They may have been spiritually dead, but in her case, she didnt have them declared dead. When a soldier goes missing in action, when can a spouse get his death benefits? The answer is when he is declared dead by the government. God's governmen on the earth is the church (I am not necessarily speaking ofthe Catholic church...I am not Catholic...I am speaking of the body of Believers...all of the Christian churches).

Now, what is that woman supposed to do, the one with 5 husbands? She is now living in adultery. Well, Jesus told her what to do...He said go and sin no more. That means start right here and move forward in truth.

This is where Georgie is at. Her ex-husband has created a great mess. Her new husband has been abusive, and she is now divorcing him. What does she do? She does as Jesus said...she goes and sins no more. That is the compassion of God...He is allowing her to move on, to make a better life filled with joy. But she must follow Him to do that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Romans 7:7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is evil? Of course not! The law is not sinful, but it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, "Do not covet."8But sin took advantage of this law and aroused all kinds of forbidden desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power.9I felt fine when I did not understand what the law demanded. But when I learned the truth, I realized I had broken the law and was a sinner, doomed to die.10So the good law, which was supposed to show me the way of life, instead gave me the death penalty.11Sin took advantage of the law and fooled me; it took the good law and used it to make me guilty of death.12But still, the law itself is holy and right and good.13But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my doom? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God's good commandment for its own evil purposes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will cloe with that...and look forward to more discussion. Georgie is in a situation where she knows and wants to do God's will. I trust with her faith, her prayer life and bible study, she will find out His will...and will follow.

Georgie,
What you said here is so very profound...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like I'm playing a game of tug of war with myself. One moment I feel pulled to wanting to believe God wants us back together as a family again and will forgive me if I'm wrong. The next moment, I'm determined that Deuteronomy has it all wrapped up in easy to understand black and white text. That's free will for you!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the struggle we all have as Christians. It is the struggle to do right, as I showed in the Romans 7 passage above. Keep your heart open...and your mind clear. As you stated before...do whatever His will is, whatever He shows you. You cannot go wrong that way. If you are still in conflict of what Hs will is, then do as the Bible says...and wait on the Lord. He is NOT the author of confusion. That is Satan. So, if there is confusion, it is only because Stan is playing his games again. You keep your face on Jesus. He wil make Satan leave...and then everything will be very clear.

In His arms.

The question here is that if this is true, then how can God allow divorce for adultery? I mean, her husband didnt die, did he? And if he didnt die, then she is still joined to him.


Because Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 say so.

Georgie, Mortar - Hey this was bugging the doodoo out of me and I asked some Christian friends for opinions. I received the following note back after describing your situation - this makes sense, it is both Biblical and Logical as the answers generally are.

What I could not get around is the idea that God would not wnat the restoration of your original marriage due to the very reason remarriage (to another)is condemned - it prevents the return to the original union.

Anyway, here's what i found from a friend - see what you think.

Dear XXXX,

Here is a letter I recently sent to a number of others labouring as missionaries to the western church. I hope it helps. Please write back with
any more questions or just for fellowship. God Bless you.

Dear fellow missionaries for Christ,

This ministry is now receiving many enquiries, often from pastors, over the matter of the confusion being generated in the church regarding the introduction of Deut. 24:1-4 into New Testament Christianity. Lying practically undisturbed since Jesus put it to rest 2000 years ago, it is just now being repackaged by the
enemies of reformation as a new emergent defense against the restoration of historic Biblical marriage, divorce and remarriage theology.

I was at first incredulous that parts of the church would get so upside-down
that some hauled out and dusted off Moses' allowance for sin, and regulations to
administer disobedience in the nation's civil code, as a means to stop repentant restoration of
prodigal spouses to their Christian families. I am unconcerned no more. A whole new twisted theology is being introduced into the church in order to preserve the adulterous remarriages condemned by God, while declaring those actually made by Him as being "ungodly." The extent of the momentum this wicked doctrine is spreading is
breathtaking. May God have mercy on our souls.

The question I have for us missionaries who work to evangelize and reform
the western church is this: "How do we answer the deceivers who now misuse it to avoid
repenting and turning away from their own remarriage sin, and those of their flock, or
more sinister still, using it to stop abandoned wives and husbands and their children from praying and trusting God for the restoration of their families after an affair, a quickie
divorce followed by a church blessed but God cursed adulterous remarriage?
It is obvious in such cases that the church is going to stand behind and support the
sinners instead of the righteous.

This heresy or something like it should have been expected in this fight for
hearts and minds. The verse "My people perish because of lack of knowledge," comes to
mind, as well as "Woe to those who call good bad, and bad good." It is hard to
believe that "Christian leaders" would dare stand in front of Jesus Christ and His most
wounded children and mimic the words of the Pharisees to justify divorce and remarriage. Let
's look at the verses in Question. Deut: 24:1-4

"Suppose a man marries a woman but later discovers something about her that is shameful. So he writes her a letter of divorce, gives it to her, and sends her away. If she then leaves and marries another man and the second husband also divorces her or dies, the former husband may not marry her again, for she has been defiled. That would be detestable to the Lord. You must not bring guilt upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as a special possession."

God Himself referred to that passage in Jeremiah 3:1 then divorced Israel inverse 8.

Next, divorced Israel took other Gods in verse 9. God then proceeded to break the Moses civil code by calling Israel back in verse 14 when he called out to her:

" Return faithless people," declares the Lord "for I am your husband." Jesus himself overrode Deut 24: 1-4 in both Matthew and Mark because of those using it to legalize their adultery in His day. He explained that it was put there by Moses, not God, to regulate sinful men. God's standards from the beginning were far
different from Moses', and Jesus pointed out the difference. He then overturned it by saying:
"But, I say unto you...", restoring the marriage law God had originally commanded but Israel had
corrupted. Jesus did not take ownership of that piece written by Moses any more than God did
in Jeremiah.

Hear this: God has not reinstated Jewish civil law today just so that a man who has stolen another man's wife; or a woman who has seduced a husband away from his wife and children; who had some replacement hocus-pocus sacrilegious ceremony performed by a disobedient priest or pastor; leaving abandoned husbands wives and children without His blessing and His help. If you have any doubt read Malachi 2:7-8 and 2:1-18:

"The priests' lips should guard knowledge, and people should go to them for instruction, for the priests are the messengers of the Lord Almighty. But not you! You have left God's paths. Your 'guidance' has caused many to stumble into sin."...

Here is another thing you do. You cover the Lord's altar with tears, weeping and
groaning because he pays no attention to your offerings, and he doesn't accept them
with pleasure. You cry out, "Why has the Lord abandoned us? " I'll tell you why!
Because the Lord witnessed the marriage covenant you and your wife made with each
other on your wedding day when you were young. But you have been disloyal to her,
though she remained your faithful companion, the wife of your marriage covenant.
Didn't the Lord make you one with your wife? In body and spirit you are his. And what does he want? Godly children from your union. So guard yourself; remain loyal to the wife of your youth. "For I hate divorce!" says the Lord, the God of Israel. "It is as cruel as putting on a victim's bloodstained coat," says the Lord Almighty. "So guard yourself; always remain loyal to your wife." You have wearied the Lord with your words. "Wearied him?"
you ask. "How have we wearied him?" You have wearied him by suggesting that the Lord favors evildoers since he does not punish them. You have wearied him by asking,
"Where is the God of justice?"
Regarding this whole section of Mosaic Law, and Deut 24:1-4 in particular,
John Wesley had this to say:

"Some uncleanness - Some hateful thing, some distemper of body or quality of mind not observed before marriage: or some light carriage, as this phrase commonly signifies, but not amounting to adultery. Let him write - This is not a command as some of the Jews understood it, nor an allowance and approbation, but merely a permission of that practice for prevention of
greater mischief's, and this only until the time of reformation, till the coming of the Messiah when things were to return to their first institution and purest condition."

When we reflect on this particular situation in 24:1-4 and its possible relevancy and binding force on Christians, we must also weigh other
connected passages in the same light and authority we give this marriage and divorce
teaching. Consider for instance what Moses commanded in Chapter 23, verses 11-12 about charging interest on loans:
"Do not charge interest on the loans you make to a fellow Israelite, whether it is money, food, or anything else that may be loaned with
interest. You may charge interest to foreigners, but not to Israelites, so
the Lord your God may bless you in everything you do in the land you are about to enter and occupy." NLT or in Chapter 25 verses 5 and 6 concerning the requirement to marry a brother's widow:

"If two brothers are living together on the same property and one of them
dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Instead,
her husband's brother must marry her and fulfill the duties of a
brother-in-law. The first son she bears to him will be counted as the son
of
the dead brother, so that his name will not be forgotten in Israel. "NLT

Anyone of these precepts is as authoritative to us today as any other in
this section. We would not think of forcing a brother to marry his widowed
sister-in-law as demanded in this section. Consider the hardship imposed
on
an accident victim if Deuteronomy 23-1 was enforced today.

"If a man's testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be
included in the assembly of the Lord."NLT

And what about the next verse, (Deut 23-2) it violates everything we know
about the mercies and salvation plan of Jesus Christ:

"Those of illegitimate birth and their descendants for ten generations may
not be included in the assembly of the Lord."NLT

John Wesley was right - these were interim steps, civil law for a
lawless ancient Israel, put forward by Moses and permitted by God, that
were
the basis of unfulfilled law only until Jesus Christ came and delivered the
New Blood Covenant, thereby finally fulfilling the whole law. In any case
they were
never intended for gentiles as whole divisions of them were excluded
in Deuteronomy 23-3:

"No Ammonites or Moabites, or any of their descendants for ten
generations, may be included in the assembly of the Lord." NLT

Jesus distanced himself from these teachings, pointing out that divorce and
its

regulations were permitted by Moses because of how far these hard hearted
people

were from God and His ways. With his: "But I say unto you...." Jesus
declared that
marriage continues intact, being an indivisible union during life and that
remarriage

is no more than church and state encouraged adultery. As Origen wrote:

"Just as a woman is an adulteress, even though she seems to be married to a
man, while a former husband yet lives, so also the man who seems to marry
who has been divorced does not marry her, but, according to the declaration
of our Savior, he commits adultery with her." (Commentaries on Matthew
Section 14:24)

It seems to me that both God Himself and His suffering, heart sick prophet
Hosea demonstrated by example the path we are to take in beckoning and
welcoming home wayward prodigals, no matter what they had done, legally or
otherwise.

Hosea was commanded by God to go and bring his wife back to him even though
she

is loved by another man, contrary to Moses' regulations, and love her in
the same way

God loves Israel, even though they chase after other gods (Hosea 3:1) If
unconditional

forgiveness and reconciliation of covenant marriage is God's standard, as He
has so clearly

shown it to be, then ours, as Hosea's was, can be no less.

So the question remains. What would God have us do? I for one will begin to
pray.

"Dear Lord. I pray for your beloved church. You said that You yourself would
lead

it and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. We ask for your mercy
on those

who are faithful to you and to convict by your Holy Spirit those twisting
and turning

to hide the truth from your people. Forgive us of our many sins dear Lord.

Come quickly!"

ADGirl,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question here is that if this is true, then how can God allow divorce for adultery? I mean, her husband didnt die, did he? And if he didnt die, then she is still joined to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 say so.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well ,this is true to an extent. but ask yourself a question. If Matthew 5:32 & Matthew 19:9 say that a BS can divorce their WS due to marital unfaithfulness (which it does), then how does that jive with Rmans 7:1-, which states that a woman (or man) is bound to their husband as long as he lives? Jesus would be saying then that there is an exception. That Romans 7 is wrong...that she isnt bound to her husband as long as he lives, IF marital unfaithfulness is the cause.

Ask yourself why these two seem to be conflicting each other. I spelled out in my last post that they arent really in conflict. That yes, Jesus was continuing to permit divorce due to marital unfaithfulness. But it is not in conflict with Romans 7:1, because as spelled out in my last post, it is that marital unfaithfulness and lack of repentence that causes death (spiritual death).

So, while it is easy to say "Well it is so, because Jesus says so," we need to be very careful in showing that He is never in conflict with Himself.

The point to that question was to get people thinking on the passage in Romans, about how we are bound to our spouses as long as they live. And there is NOTHING we can do about that. If they live, we are still married to them.

If my wife, who was committing adultery, had been brought before the church because I wanted to divorce her (as Jesus said I could do), and she repented and said that she would live with me as my wife and not be unfaithful again, could I still pursue the divorce. No! Then I would be wrong! Then I would be divorcing illegally, and causing adultery. God wants reconciliation in marriages. And He does give us an out...but even in adultery, it still isnt that easy. We still have to go through the hurdles of the church "court."

If my wife repented, then she would still be my wife. And since she had repented, Jesus had forgiven her. And no matter what my feelings are or were, I would have no choice but to forgive her also.

When Hosea brought Gomer home, he told her that she would be his wife again...that she would not be with another man again.

I just wanted everyone to think about this issues of divorce and remarriage...to what God has laid out there. His laws do not contradict. He has said that we are bound to our spouses as long as they live. And He hasnt changed His mind on that one. Even with marital unfaithfulness. Even with Jesus saying we can divorce for that reason. We are still bound to that person until they are dead...and in the case that Jesus spelled out...they would be spiritually dead (marital unfaithfulness).

I always try in my life to take the Scriptures in their entirety. If one takes all the passages written about marriage, divorce, remarriage, sin, reconciliation, repentence...and lays them side by side...it is very evident what God requires. Too often we take one passage (or part of one) and try to derive the meaning of it. It always has to be taken in the context of His entire Word.

A quick example. How many times have we heard that Christians arent supposed to judge? "Judge not, lest ye be judged." The problem with this statement is that the people who say that Christians arent supposed to judge...are wrong. We are supposed to judge. Several times in the New Testament, it calls on Christians to judge. In the end, we will sit by Jesus, and judge the fallen and the fallen angels. We are to judge. So how is it that so many have gotten this passage wrong?

Because they didnt read on. It says "Judge not, lest ye be judged...for in the way you judge, you also will be judged." It isnt saying not to judge...it is saying be careful when and the way you judge. What God is talking about here is hypocritical judgment.

To judge someone for adultery, when we were WSs ourselves, would be hypocritical. That was what Jesus said about the woman caught in adultery. they were all going to stone her. Jesus said that the persons without sin could cast the first stone. Did He say that anyone without ANY sin cast the first stone? No, because that would mean only He could do so. No, He meant that any person there that wasnt guilty of THAT sin (adultery) could cast the first stone. And to make sure everyone understood that He knew who had, Jesus had bent down and began writing in the sand. Know what He wrote? Well, the Bible doesnt say...but it does say that when He did write...they all left. So what is it that He wrote.

Jesus knew, and they all knew the law. That adultery was an offense punishable by stoning. Jesus just gets done saying that anyone that isnt guilty of adultery can cast the first stone. and then they all leave. So, they understood what Jesus was talking about. They knew because Jesus most likely wrote their names in the sand as those guilty of adultery. And they knew that Jesus now knew that they were guilty of the same offense that this woman was. And they knew that if they cast a stone, then after she was done being killed, then they would have to take her place. So they all left!!

I brought this up because here is a classic example of people taking one or two passages out of the Bible, and coming up with the exact wrong conclusion. And I have been as guilty as the next of this.

I hope I have clarified things here.

In His arms.

Georgie, I rarely post here but wanted to remind you about the website recommended by A M Martin. It's rejoiceministries.org. The website has a lot of information for people in exactly your situation. This ministry is directed by a couple who divorced and then remarried. May God bless you as you search for His will.

Well, I am not going to the bible right now, but I know this. You are considered married to your first spouse as your true spouse in God's eyes.
We need to remember to stay out of the old testament when dealing with this issue today as it changed.
Not saying we shouldn't read OT, but we have to apply the NT to us.
I mean, if we go by OT we have men having several wives!
The fact is, I believe God will bless the first union if you remarry faster than any other!
that doesn't mean people don't get divorced for biblical reasons and remarry.
I believe in the forgiveness of all sins when we turn from them repenting fully.
Examine your hears thoroughly, then if you do decide you will make a life time commitment to first H, go for it!
Perhaps God has not blessed the second union for a very good reason!
I am going to search. But if you need more and want to read OT, Go to Hosea.His wife was a harlot, she was passed around in pagan rites, she was sold on the auction block when she was worn out! Hosea bought her back, then was Commanded by God not to touch her sexually for I think it was a year. After that, she was renewed to a healthy woman, loving her children and H.
If you want to read OT, Go to HOSEA!
Wishing you the right decision and happiness. I will go find verse and put here.
LouLou

You can go to Biblegateway.com online and search. This is from Hosea, but you need to read whole book of Hosea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Start with Chapt 1. Hosea and Gomer were used as examples by God for his relationship with Israel. Somewhere is written, which I cannot find, maybe it was in a book I have, about the whole relationship between Hosea and Gomer. But after much sin, she was rejoined to her H and blessed in the marriage.

Hosea 3

Hosea's Reconciliation With His Wife

1 The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes."
2 So I bought her for fifteen shekels [1] of silver and about a homer and a lethek [2] of barley. 3 Then I told her, "You are to live with [3] me many days; you must not be a prostitute or be intimate with any man, and I will live with [4] you."
4 For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol. 5 Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.

Footnotes

3:2 That is, about 6 ounces (about 170 grams)
3:2 That is, probably about 10 bushels (about 330 liters)
3:3 Or wait for
3:3 Or wait for

2ofaKind,

I too am still searching the Scriptures for the possibility that Georgie could remarry her former husband, after she has already married. And believe me, I have accepted all that anyone has posted or told me, because I know that I still have a lot to learn (as do we all).

The text you post here raises great questions. My issue with it is that it has many holes in it, that take the argument that it is making to the point that it may not be credible. Let me just take some of those passages and tell you why I say this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This ministry is now receiving many enquiries, often from pastors, over the matter of the confusion being generated in the church regarding the introduction of Deut. 24:1-4 into New Testament Christianity. Lying practically undisturbed since Jesus put it to rest 2000 years ago, it is just now being repackaged by the
enemies of reformation as a new emergent defense against the restoration of historic Biblical marriage, divorce and remarriage theology.

I was at first incredulous that parts of the church would get so upside-down
that some hauled out and dusted off Moses' allowance for sin, and regulations to
administer disobedience in the nation's civil code, as a means to stop repentant restoration of
prodigal spouses to their Christian families. I am unconcerned no more. A whole new twisted theology is being introduced into the church in order to preserve the adulterous remarriages condemned by God, while declaring those actually made by Him as being "ungodly." The extent of the momentum this wicked doctrine is spreading is
breathtaking. May God have mercy on our souls.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I too fell into this during the my wife's affair. I wanted very much to believe in the thought that until my wife was physically dead, I was still married to her. But, it has taken a lot of prayer, and Godly counsel, to see that God does allow that bond to break...that marriages do end...that remarriage is allowed in certain circumstances. As I outlined above, God does give provision to the widow. He states that the marriage bond is broken upon death...and she (or he) is free to remarry, only in the Lord. but if we take the original text, in the original language, the word death has a duel meaning. It is the same word used in Genesis when God says that Adam and Eve died in the garden. Did they physically die? No. Not right away anyway. But it said that when they ate the fruit, they would die. And they did die. Spiritually. They were cut off immediately from God. Thus is the meaning of the word "death" when God states that the marriage bond is until death do we part.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question I have for us missionaries who work to evangelize and reform
the western church is this: "How do we answer the deceivers who now misuse it to avoid
repenting and turning away from their own remarriage sin, and those of their flock, or
more sinister still, using it to stop abandoned wives and husbands and their children from praying and trusting God for the restoration of their families after an affair, a quickie
divorce followed by a church blessed but God cursed adulterous remarriage?
It is obvious in such cases that the church is going to stand behind and support the
sinners instead of the righteous. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please dont get me started with the mess many churches are making out there. that part of this passage is absolutely correct. But the part about divorce and remarriage is couched in this new theology that says "If you divorced your spouse, even for marital unfaithfulness, you are still married to them. So when you remarry, then it isnt a real marriage. Andthat if you want to get right in God's eyes, then you must immediately leave you current spouse (and any kids you have with them) and go back to your first husband or wife. I believed this for awhile. I truly did. But over the last year, I have prayed and studied and many have helped to show me that this is wrong.

In Matthew, Jesus states that we can divorce for marital unfaithfulness. I have already shown that adultery, and unrepentence for it, is grounds for a person to be declared dead. And Romans says that upon death (physical or spiritual) that we are free to remarry, only in the Lord. Again, I believe that many (like I said, I was guilty of this also) are not taking the full word into context here. Like I said in my last post to ADGirl, take every passage out of the Bible concerning divorce, marriage, remarriage, sin and repentence. Lay them side by side and read them. And then we will see God's true plan for marriage, divorce and remarriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This heresy or something like it should have been expected in this fight for
hearts and minds. The verse "My people perish because of lack of knowledge," comes to
mind, as well as "Woe to those who call good bad, and bad good." It is hard to
believe that "Christian leaders" would dare stand in front of Jesus Christ and His most
wounded children and mimic the words of the Pharisees to justify divorce and remarriage. Let
's look at the verses in Question. Deut: 24:1-4

"Suppose a man marries a woman but later discovers something about her that is shameful. So he writes her a letter of divorce, gives it to her, and sends her away. If she then leaves and marries another man and the second husband also divorces her or dies, the former husband may not marry her again, for she has been defiled. That would be detestable to the Lord. You must not bring guilt upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as a special possession."

God Himself referred to that passage in Jeremiah 3:1 then divorced Israel inverse 8.

Next, divorced Israel took other Gods in verse 9. God then proceeded to break the Moses civil code by calling Israel back in verse 14 when he called out to her:

" Return faithless people," declares the Lord "for I am your husband." Jesus himself overrode Deut 24: 1-4 in both Matthew and Mark because of those using it to legalize their adultery in His day. He explained that it was put there by Moses, not God, to regulate sinful men. God's standards from the beginning were far
different from Moses', and Jesus pointed out the difference. He then overturned it by saying:
"But, I say unto you...", restoring the marriage law God had originally commanded but Israel had
corrupted. Jesus did not take ownership of that piece written by Moses any more than God did
in Jeremiah. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So much of this is true! God hates divorce. His plan is ALWAYS for the family and biblical marriage. But interstingly, this passage above quotes Jesus in sayin "But I say to you..." Well, what did He say? He said that we commit adultery if we divorce our spouse for any other reason BUT marital unfaithfulness. And as I've shown here, marital unfaithfulness, and lack of repentence thereof, begets death (spiritual). And death begets the ability of the spouses to remarry, because death breaks the bonds of marriage. Always!

Here is some marriage Algebra for you:</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sex with someone not our spouse = adultery</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">an unbiblical divorce = adultery</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Adultery + unrepentence = death</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Death = breaking of marital bonds</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Breaking of marital bonds = free to remarry, only in the Lord</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hear this: God has not reinstated Jewish civil law today just so that a man who has stolen another man's wife; or a woman who has seduced a husband away from his wife and children; who had some replacement hocus-pocus sacrilegious ceremony performed by a disobedient priest or pastor; leaving abandoned husbands wives and children without His blessing and His help. If you have any doubt read Malachi 2:7-8 and 2:1-18:</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All true. So very true. But we are talking about more with Georgie here. She has remarried. Deut 24 says God finds detestable her divorcing and remarrying her first husband. Why is that? Why is it detestable? And, now that we are under the New Covenant, does God no longer find that detestable? I doubt it. I can find no where that He has changed His mind on His feelings about that.
The rest of the passage goes on to keep pushing its point. It says again that Jesus said "But I say unto you..." And I continue to say...what did He say? He said all that was posted here about their hard hearts, and that God's idea of marriage is so much different. but then He gives a consession. He allows (permits) divorce for marital unfaithfulness.

The passage you found is correct...we are no longer under the law. We arent even under the 10 Commandments anymore. Not Christians. As I pointed out in an earlier post, it says three times in 1st Corinthians that all things are lawful for a believer. We can commit murder, and still end up in heaven. Of course, commiting the murder may be an indication that we were never really saved...but that is for God to sort out.

But Jesus is the fulfillment of the law...all of it. The reason we are no longer under the law is that the fulfillment of the law lives within us. In the person of the Holy Spirit. Thus, we obey the laws of old...because that is what Jesus always has done and will always do. By being a Christian, and following Christ, we obey all of the laws...because we are guided to do so by the one who never broke any of them.

In the end, Christianity is not a list of rules, or being good...it is about a relationship with a living person...Jesus. And because NONE of us are good (even on our best days, our works are but filthy rags to God), our relationship with the one that is ALWAYS good, is what holds us to fulfilling the laws ourselves. That is why I have written over and over to Georgie that she must keep her eyes on Jesus.

So, I hope that this clarifies some things. I too believed many of these things that was posted. But thru study, prayer, instruction, etc I have come to find out that the argument that the bond of marriage is never broken is just not correct. And that once married, there is never conditions for a biblical remarriage. The physical death of a spouse is cause to be biblically remarried. If the spouse who leaves is an unbeliever, then the remaining spouse is free to remarry (but if the unbeliever wants to stay, then we must also stay). If a spouse commits adultery and will not repent (turn from their evil ways), then the BS is free to divorce, as per Jesus' own words. And if he/she is free to divorce, then they are free to remarry.

If two people are just tired of each other and want to divorce, then it is tru...there is no divorce (even if the court signs one). So, they leave STILL MARRIED! But as soon as they have sex with someone else, then they have committed adultery. And now, we are back to square one in the fact that adultery +unrepentence = death. And death ALWAYS gives the remaining spouse the breaking of the bonds of marriage, and the freedom to remarry.

In His arms.

NewBranch,

You bring up a part of what was posted by 2ofakind, that I forgot to mention.

God divorces Israel. And Israel is later brought back to God...remarried so to speak. So, God does want reconciliation and remarriage. But...Israel had other lovers (gods). They never "married" these other gods. They just ran around in spiritual adultery.

An example? Well, Hosea that you bring up is a great one. Gomer is a prostitute. Hosea is told by God to marry her. Did Hosea and Gomer EVER get a divorce? Maybe. I am not quite sure due to the text. But it doesnt matter. Gomer goes runnign around, I believe for 10 years, with other lovers. Committing adultery. But does she ever remarry? Not that I can find.

So, Hosea bringing her home does not violate Deut 24, because neither of them had remarried.

In His arms.

This is an interesting discussion, as it always is, the ebb and flo or various agendas...but the fact is, no one knows what God's will is for anyone other than themself (and that is hard to determine as well). What gets lost in the various interpretive rhetoric is real life, this isn't a game, it is out lives... to try an live them by some kind of legalistic rules will always fail, because no set of rules can take into account what is needed for our psychological health. The school of thought that promotes marital absolutism (the idea one remains "married" to the first person they keep house with) is fatally flawed because not only do we have this conflicting doctrine about adultery (and the fact adultery does not even have to be physical, just intent alone is enough to be "guilty")...but we have huge logical fallacies too...such as marrying someone and having them then reveal they are a homosexual and have no intention of a physical relationship (yep, does happeen)...or marrying someone and finding out they are a psycho/sociopath, or marrying someone and finding out they are violent and will beat you (and murder you, as often happens), or marrying someone only to realize they are an alcoholic, drug addict...whatever....so in all these cases you are MARRIED to them FOREVER....Nah, don't think so...That is a ridgid self-serving interpretation of God's will regarding marriage, to promote the controlling agenda of those who seek to use religion to exert power over others.

IMO it is clear in the context of Christianity, and what is said about marriage in the Bible, that it is a living breathing thing, created by the capacity and intent (two things often missing in so-called marriages) of two individuals to live in a particular psychological state, and has to meet certain criteria of health, and well-being...and we are empowered to assess the circumstances of our lives, and if we discern the marriage is not a safe place, we can (and should) leave it. The catholic church recognizes this through it's granting of annulments...the idea being the marriage never actually took place...which brings me the next issue, there are no definitive explanations for the underlying assumptions....for example

1. What is marriage anyways, if a "legal" document for divorce means nothing, then a legal document for marriage means nothing also...cause the state has no power to address ones marital condition, only to reflect what you say it is, and administer contract law in said regard.

So when are you married, how do we know that, how is marriage different than cohabitation...and please, if anyone tackles this, don't mumble something about saying some words, that is easily demonstrated as nonsensical by itself, there has to be other observable and measureable conditions validateing this state. I have yet to meet anyone who can categorically define when marriage has actually occured.

Just one "for instance" for the doubting Thomases. People often choose to live together, stating to each other it is ok cause we are in love and going to get married (when we got the money, out of school, whatever) so they voluntarily enter a marital state, just haven't "legalized" it, are they married? I dunno, they could be by some standards, most would say no, they can part company anytime and "remarry" someone else. I could posit many more ambiguous scenarios...but the point is we are arguing from a point where one is "married" and has x y z choices, but we have not defined marriage. In many cases IMO, it is spiritually accurate to conclude you are not married (ie oneflesh) at all...but instead are cohabitateing, because whatever the very real conditions of marriage are (and no one actually knows, but I assume they exist) they have not been met.

2. Another perplexing issue is what about non-Christians. No doubt (despite my please above) someone is going to quote "vows" back at me. Ok, let's go with that, so an atheist marriage occurs (no spiritual vows I assume), are they married? For that matter can anyone who is not a Christian marry at all? What are the criteria? How do we know they are married?

3. Ok, pragmatic question....so we have literally millions of 2nd marriages, blended families, many with children from the new union...what are they...bastar*s? And what does that mean anyways? Are these millions of people all committing adultery? Does God abandon them, and abhor their marriages?

So let me get this straight...some young person buys into the mask presented to them by a pursuer, and marries them. Comes to find it is a horrible enviroment, and leaves....now they are doomed to remain childless, celibate, and terribly alone the rest of their lives? I don't think so.

The bottom line IMO (and from observation) is people are going to do whatever they want anyways....but hopefully what they want comes from a healthy understanding of themself, and what works right, that means not only understanding their spiritual beliefs, but also understanding human psychology, and that it is ok to discern that a particular union is not a safe healthy place to attempt the particular degree of intimacy and nurturing that most of us think of when we use the word "marriage".

This subject is staying on my mind as well.

The Chapter in my Bible study this week was the Minisitry of Condemnation and though remarriage was not specifically addressed, living under the Law certainly was--maybe I should read ahead <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

What about the Law?

Galatians 3:1-3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Matthew 5:27,28 You have heard that it was said, "Do not commit adultery." But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Galatians 3:23,24 Before this faith came, we were held prisoner by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now now condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law...have fallen away from grace.

So, how are we to live?

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

Most Christians eat shellfish and pork, most of us worship on Sunday, not the real sundown Friday to sundown Saturday Sabbath (a stoning offense), plus we do "work" even on the day we've chosen as our Sabbath...as far as law goes, we have not kept those points, so we have failed at all points.

Is remarriage to a former spouse qualitatively different in terms breaking law?