Come on bringing someone TCBY is bad, they are all married. Ive been going to the bank for years. NOTHING IS THERE, dont imply anything.
Whats wrong with being nice. Thats all.
If I said I tipped my hair dresser would that be wrong too?

Also how can I talk to my wife if in paln B,
you say dont say a word now your telling me to have discussions with her.

Seems like there is no way in the world to do this because it sounds like a lot of should have would have could have. Monday morning quaterbacking.

I simply asked my daughter to not repeat something, not choose sides.

Steve:

...um... what's a TCBY? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"If I said I tipped my hair dresser would that be wrong too?"

Which? Tipping the hair dresser or a big manly-man like yourself having your hair "dressed?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry for the humor if you're not up for it now. I see your difficult si2ation, Steve. It's hard 2 know when answering simple 2uestions is appropriate and when it's not. When it gets you in2 trouble, or when you can get a simple one-word answer.

I hope you're coping okay, though.

-2long

Where I live, the guys go to the barber shop or cut their own hair with a pocket knife! Course, we have guys named Bubba and the mullet is still in style. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TCBY=The Countries Best Yogurt=frozen yogurt place comparable to DQ or Baskin Robbins. (Don’t know if it really is or not.)

Come on bringing someone TCBY is bad, they are all married.
So it’s okay to bring gifts to married women?

Ive been going to the bank for years. NOTHING IS THERE, dont imply anything.
I was not implying anything. It’s a simple fact that it is inappropriate behavior for a married man to bring gifts to other married women.

Whats wrong with being nice.
Nothing. But it is not appropriate because you and they are married.

Thats all.
I am not suggesting you are trying to start an affair or anything like that.
But that is how 90% of affairs DO start. And since your marriage is on the rocks, you are extremely vulnerable. One of the top Marriage Builders rules is to NOT put yourself into situations which are directly

If I said I tipped my hair dresser would that be wrong too?
No, but hairdressing is a job where tipping is expected.

Also how can I talk to my wife if in paln B,
you say dont say a word now your telling me to have discussions with her.
I didn’t write that you should have “discussions”. Keep it short & simple.
You need to do everything to keep the kids from being in the middle.

I simply asked my daughter to not repeat something, not choose sides.
I know you did not come right out and ask her to choose sides.
But her Mom is telling her one thing and her Dad is telling her something different.
By doing this, (both of) you are forcing her decide who she should listen to.
She didn’t ask to get put into this situation. It’s up to YOU to make it clear that she does not have to choose sides and it’s up to YOU to make it as easy as possible since your wife is not willing to do it.

How is the custody issue coming along? When you do get custody, most of this will not be an issue.

Chris, it is because he doesn't want to put his daughters in the middle that he tells them not to pass on messages for the mother. She was sending the girls with messages like "I need money for XYZ and you better pay!" He has told the girls in the past to tell their mother to call him directly about these issues instead of passing these messages on.

I realize that.
But since SHE has decided to not play by the rules, he has to adapt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong> I realize that.
But since SHE has decided to not play by the rules, he has to adapt. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I think he has by discouraging them to pass on messages. If he accepts their message, he is affirming her attempt to bring them into the middle. By telling them not to pass on messages, they know they don't have to be involved and that it is between the parents.

Thanks Mel for taking up for me a little, I think CA just wants to get my engine reved up.

TCBY is frozen yogert, How in the world can you call this a gift? thats insane. Im married and so are they, so get off my *#$&$ back about that. Like I said it is called being nice.
If they were men I would do the same thing. I bring doughnuts to work. I have stopped by Mcdonalds and bought biscuits for everyone.Men and women
its called being nice to men and Women.
no other meaning at all.

Hair dresser, barber what ever you call it I dont care, My wife cut hair(that was her Job) she called it hair Dresser. she cut mine for the last 17years. Now a guy cuts it, with clippers a little longer than military, and guess what I tip him. no big deal.

Fine example of her tweaking me, Im talking to my daughter and wife comes in the back ground and says why is daddy calling so late? then stands there and says hurry and get off the phone
you have to go to bed.

So CA what do I do now. I dont say a word unless the kids start to ask then and only then do I tell them not to repeat that.

I checked the mail tonight and found where the sife went to yet another Doc. dont know what type of Doc they are. I am going to check in the am. so let me make this clear, I am going to see if this doctor is a Family type doctor or Orth.
I am going to find his specialty. I hate being defensive but kinda feel like I have to be.

Had a reply done but it didn’t take. AARRGGHH!!!

Thanks Mel for taking up for me a little, I think CA just wants to get my engine reved up.
If I wanted to rev your engine, you would know it.
I’m simply trying to get you to understand and use Marriage Builders ™ principles correctly.

TCBY is frozen yogert, How in the world can you call this a gift?
Because it is. You are doing it “to surprise them”. Why would you want to surprise the bank tellers? (That could be dangerous. It is a bank…)
Have you ever heard the phrase, “it’s the little things that count”?
It’s not how many diamonds or trips you give your wife, it’s the “thank you Honey” and the telephone call in the middle of the day to say “Hi, I love you” that really count.

Im married and so are they, so get off my *#$&$ back about that.
Which is exactly why you should NOT be doing it. MB explains this type of behavior is inappropriate for a married individual, ESPECIALLY when they are separated due to an affair.

Like I said it is called being nice.
But it is FAR more than the average person does for bank tellers. Why can’t you just say, “Thank you. Have a good day.”?

If they were men I would do the same thing.
But they aren’t men.

I bring doughnuts to work. I have stopped by Mcdonalds and bought biscuits for everyone.Men and women
its called being nice to men and Women.
As long as it’s an evenly mixed group, not a problem.

no other meaning at all.
I didn’t write or imply you had any other meaning.

Now a guy cuts it, with clippers a little longer than military, and guess what I tip him. no big deal.
Correct. But you are expected to tip a hair dresser/barber, not a teller.

If you don’t want to use MB principles, then that is your decision.
But if you do want to use them, then these forums are to discuss them so you can learn and apply them correctly.

Fine example of her tweaking me, Im talking to my daughter and wife comes in the back ground and says why is daddy calling so late? then stands there and says hurry and get off the phone you have to go to bed.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO GET CUSTODY?!?!?!

Steve:

I dunno. I do have 2 side with you on the yogurt thang. IN THIS INSTANCE, and only FROM WHAT I KNOW (or think I know).

There's always a matter of degree 2 these sorts of things. On one extreme, you could not say a word 2 the tellers, even avoid eye contact. Would that be in keeping with MB principles? It might, I don't know. But I wouldn't worry about it either. At least not 2 much. Just be on guard about how you feel when you do that. Also, watch the reactions you get. it's always dangerous 2 assume you know what other people are thinking, but if your "gift" were perceived as flirting, you can tell, if you're perceptive enough. And if it is, you SHOULD back off. Politely.

I also think you need 2 get a humor injection. I usually try not 2 laugh at my own jokes, but the one about a man getting his hair "dressed" was pretty darned funny, IMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

The ONLY reason I used the hair dresser is because that what I heard my wife call it for 17 years. Dosent matter to me. I do see the humor
there. enough about all that.

There was no flirting of any kind associated with the TCBY,

too many what if's and editing everything I say. I put up with this BS from my wife.

I called the wife in the middle of the day
tons of times, called and got her to meet me for lunch. Wrote love letters etc. told her millions of times How great she was and how lucky I was that she was my wife. I let her go where ever and when ever she wanted. Looks like I let it happen to myself, more or less opened the door.

I had the kids this weekend and had a blast, wife tried to call sat afternoon. The kids and I were outside, then Sunday night before I brought the kids home she called and said " when are you going to bring MY kids home. I told her to refer to them as our kids since she did not have them by herself. I heard from the neighbors daughter that the wife was seen shopping (imagine that)
with the OM last Wed around noon. The kids tell me mommy does not cut hair anymore. That is her profession.
When I took the kids back last night at 9pm wife was sitting outside talking on the phone. I told the kids I loved them and left without saying a word. Distance was 50' plus I had Sis in law with me. Oh, wait is this a lb since she is a married woman?

There was no flirting of any kind associated with the TCBY
I never even suggested that was happening.
Just that Steve Harley told me to stay away from those situations EVEN if there was no intention of getting too friendly.

too many what if's and editing everything I say. I put up with this BS from my wife.
If our suggestions that you follow Marriage Builders are bs, why do you ask questions here?

I brought the kids home she called and said " when are you going to bring MY kids home. I told her to refer to them as our kids since she did not have them by herself.
Why are you being confrontational with her? That is not Plan A or Plan B.

When I took the kids back last night
How is the custody issue coming along?

at 9pm wife was sitting outside talking on the phone. I told the kids I loved them and left without saying a word. Distance was 50' plus I had Sis in law with me. Oh, wait is this a lb since she is a married woman?
I don’t understand? Who would it be a Lovebuster to?

Do you just want to be sarcastic or do you want to learn, understand and use Marriage Builders principles properly?

I am working on the mb stuff, I have held my tounge. I am asking for some guidence not to be
micro managed so to speak. The reason I talked about having the kids back at 9 is because for the past 8 - 10 time I brought them back she has called and complained about the time. She knows I bring them home at the same time when I have them. I am just getting tired of being berated by her. Maybe I am getting defensive. CA is there ever a time to say the heck with it?
Just so you will know I would loose every friend I have, probably 50 or so if my wife came back. If this is what it would take.

I am the most easy going care free person you will ever meet, this is no lie. I have had 20 to 30 of wifes customers call me and tell me wife is nuts for leaving me and she will be back one day.
Guess I have to be patient

steve:

"is there ever a time to say the heck with it?"

Sure there is. And it's when YOU want 2, not her. But I don't think you're ready 2 do that yet.

"Just so you will know I would loose every friend I have, probably 50 or so if my wife came back. If this is what it would take."

Huh? Why would you lose your friends? I would think that the friends worth keeping would admire you for standing by your M, regardless of how your W is behaving right now.

"I am the most easy going care free person you will ever meet, this is no lie. I have had 20 to 30 of wifes customers call me and tell me wife is nuts for leaving me and she will be back one day.
Guess I have to be patient."

It's vir2uous 2 be patient. You don't have 2 be, but it's good that you have chosen 2 be.

Look, ol' 2long knows how hard it is 2 be patient. Sometimes I feel like a chump, sometimes I feel like quitting, but every time I take time 2 calm down, I feel better about remaining patient.

Just don't get complacent. Growth from now on will be a life-long process.

best,
-ol' 2long

I am asking for some guidence not to be
micro managed so to speak.
Remember that MB is NOT only how to deal with your spouse.
It is also your own actions and things which may not directly involve your wife.

CA is there ever a time to say the heck with it?
Yeah. But do it because you no longer want to be married to her, not because you are tired of it all.

Just so you will know I would loose every friend I have, probably 50 or so if my wife came back
If they would abandon you because you want to save your marriage, then they are not really true friends.

you two are right, I am not ready to call it quits, Sure Im tired of all the drama. I have moved on. Just tonight while talking to the kids the wife was in the background saying Daddy doesnt want to talk to me anymore. The kids had me on a speaker phone. I ignored her. the kids had to go and the wife said she would have them call me later.
just waiting now.
Neighbors daughter was told by friend they saw wife and OM at shopping mall together. Do I mention this to wife?

Neighbors daughter was told by friend they saw wife and OM at shopping mall together. Do I mention this to wife?
Why would you mention it?This would simply add to all the drama you are tired of.

As I have repeatedly asked you, what are you doing toget custody?

gathering information regarding all the prescripption drugs she has been taking. I have insurance service summary reports each time she visited a DR. family med doctors several days apart, Pain management Dr, Orthpedic Dr. OBGYN,
Radiologist, etc....13 different Dr's since July 1. She has been prescribed, Lortab, Darvocet, SOma, Phenigan, Midran and 2 Anti dep.'s plus all kinds of Sinus Med. Cell phone records, checking account records,
she was having them sent to OM's PO box. She listed the cell phone he provided her as the emergency contact number at the kids school.

Hey Steve, just read the last 5 pages of posts in this thread. I was following along a couple months ago while I was deployed overseas and just got back caught up.

You asked why she plead the 5th on the question of if she had an affair? Because she obviously did and answering no would be perjury (no big deal if your the president but for normal folks it could be a problem). If she answers YES well Alabama is a fault divorce state and answering YES will force the judge to find her AT FAULT and therfore you will win big. So her only option is to plead the 5th and hope for the best.

I advised you a few months ago to hire a private investigator to get concrete, photographic evidence of her affair. I hope you did but if not it is still a good idea as long as you can get it done before the court date. This would practically guarantee proof of her affair especially when backed up by the cell phone records. Cell phone records alone are not enough! Believe me I've been through it. They can BS about it all day that it's just a friend and they weren't talking about relationships, etc. etc. And in a courtroom you have to have PROOF!!

I also suggested you go to Radio Shack and spend $50 to record some of the phone converstaions you had with your kids where she was yelling and saying crazy things in the background that are unhealthy for young kids to be exposed to. I hope you did that because that will be strong evidence that she is an unfit parent and benefit you in getting custody.

The reason she is calling so many witnesses is because her case is weak and it's desparation. You should actually call 3 witnesses - the 2 you mentioned and the PI. If you have evidence of her affair and unhealthy actions around your kids the judge will see her as grasping for straws and desparate. If you do all this and it goes to court, you win and it's going to be a shut out. She will be found at fault, you get the house, kids, nearly all the belongings, your retirement fund and she ends up owing YOU for child support.

Then after the divorce is final, you file a lawsuit against her and the OM for your legal expenses and you sue the OM for emotional pain and distress and for breaking up your marriage. Don't let it end with them walking all over you.

I want to see you win Steve (of course the real winners are the lawyers) but you have to make sure the court finds HER AT FAULT not YOU. You have to put aside your feelings for her and think about what is best for you and your kids. In case the Plan A/B thing doesn't work you have to protect yourself. Always plan for the worst but hope for the best.

<small>[ April 20, 2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Layerr3 ]</small>

I called for the kids last night, the wife answers and says they have gone to church with the neighbor she has only knomn since July. I said will you please have them call me when they get back, she said it will be late, I then said that is OK I want to see how their day went. The wife then said the neighbor is going to have a birthday party for her kids and wanted to know If I would allow our daughters to come to it, I told her no problem, the wife then said the neighbor does not want you to come over. No problem I told her. Then the wife said Oh let me tell you, ****** said you were talking about me shopping at the mall with OM, I then stopped her and said Please have the girls call me when they get back, good bye and hung up.

The wife then called right back I let the answering machine do it's job, She left a message, she said lets not
be mean to each other, I would rather you say you dont want to talk about it than hang up on me
see if you can be nice if thats possible.

The kids called later that night.

THe wife also got a call from one of my friends
and was rambling about how she wanted to make it easy on me when she left, how I would not just accept the fact she wanted out, but now she wants it all. The wife then started crying to my friend saying she just wished it was all over.

The friend call and let me know. All I told them was Hate to hear that. She made up her mind this is what she wanted. Friend said I agree.