My wife left me, Please please help - Marriage Builders® Forums

please give advice, I am new here. I have read the Divorce Busters, Dr Phil books and others.

Please read my story and give any advice you can.

I have been married for 14 years, we dated for 3 17 total very good years with each other. Here goes. My best fried of 20 years was having a very bad time in his marriage and needed to get out. He asked me if I minded if my wife went with him to pick out some stuff for his wife to help in his marriage.(clothes lingere etc.) This was 21/2 years ago. That ended and they started going dancing at some of the casinos. I was told over and over nothing was going on. this continued for another year or so. I told my wife and former best fried to stop going out. it didnt stop. Fast forward 2 years, my fried left his wife and needed a place to stay, of course it was at our house. this was in late Feb of 2003
after several weeks I noticed bickering between wife and I. Small arguments like why is the house a mess, she does not work, she was always going shopping or to babysit friends kids. All I asked was clean our place before going elsewhere.
Finally on June 30 or 14th Wedding Aniv. she told me she was tierd of me and left. Took both of our daughters and moved in with her parents.
Thisis also a blackeye on our marriage as her mother never cared for me. Her mothr was very sick. Wife moved in to take care of mother. When wife moved out I took credit cards from her but gave her money for the children, since she moved out in june my former friend has bought her a cell phone, she has money in a checking account being sent to his companies business address, he takes the wife out to eat.......she has Lasik eye surgery...most of the things I could not afford.
I have started checking my old cell phone records
and found where he was calling 8- 10 times per day. After she moved, I done all of the things you all advise not to cry, beg, I'll change etc.
we both were very mad her telling me she never loved me, shes been unhappy for years......I
called her a quitter, accused her of an affair
which she has denied, I confronted the old friend
and all he said was heck move on. he is the ONLY person to tell me that. My wife an I were out
with friends 1 night before she left. Sex life was great, 3 to 4 time a week, she always started it. great kids and friends, new swimming pool, everything she wanted... I just found out that she went and filed for the Big D on 11-25
she has not even told me, she also has one of the most expensive D lawyers in town.

Am I done for. I had no idea, neither did neighbors, friends, family, our friends told me us getting divorced was like all McDonalds shutting down at the same time. Her mother passed away in early Sept. wife tells my sister in law who she is close with she is happy, when I ask wife about us hse tells me there is no us were done, its over..what do I need to do to try and save this marriage, kids 9 and 6 tell me all the time they want to come home all the time.

Please help, also is there an example of a
plan A letter I could go by for ideas or am I doomed ?

Here's clue #1:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> My best fried of 20 years was having a very bad time in his marriage and needed to get out.<hr /></blockquote>Do you have any idea why his marriage collapsed? Have you talked to his ex?

Sounds like this has been going on a very long time.

I don't understand why you permitted him to stay in YOUR home.

Low

Welcome to MB - sorry you had to find this site under these circumstances.

I am the WW in my story, so I do not have too much advice for your side. Your W has the classic signs of someone in an affair - it clouds everything. She can't see how this is effecting you or the kids. She is heavily in the fog. What I would recommend is to read "Surviving an Affair" You can order it on this site. It will give you a lot of answers and were to start.

There are others on your side of the story that will probably respond and give you better input than I can.

(Like you, my H invited my OM - old single friend - to live next door in our rental - sealed his own doom. Luckily, mine had a happy ending.)

My friend left his marriage because he said he was unhappy, he and his wife argued all the time, I have since found out most of what he has told everyone about his ex is a lie. He has also told his mother I was abbusive to my wife, that
probably hurts more than anything. Why did he buy the cell phone for her, where did she get the 4k in her checking account.....I knkow, my question is how do I stop it and get her to
at least give me a 1st chance. She told me she was leaving on June 30. Moved out on July 3rd filed for D on Nov 25, why so fast? what can I do to slow things down. The past 3 weeks I have have very little to say to her, just I will pick up the kids from school, etc. She has tried to argue with me while the kids are in gymnastics
while all other parents are around at PTA meetings at school, she never cussed while we were married now its all the time, she like to tell me she has no money but is always buying the kids clothes, going out to eat with them.
Our kids tell me he is not there anymore, when I confronted him right after she left and asked him to stop calling her and seeing her he said no. I told him again and he said he was going to have a restraining order placed on me. he is still in the middle of a very bad divorce, he walked out on his wife like my wife did to me.

what is my best plan of action that will at least give me a chance, I have said the kids need me etc. everytime them see me they run to
me no matter if wife and I are both there,they have always been Daddy's girls. There is also the neighbor, who is one of her friends, she tells the wife every move I make, when I leave and come back, what I am doing in the yard,

Please help

Me 40
her 38
2 Daughters 9 and 6
Married 14
dated 3
She told me she was unhappy June 30
left July 3
filed for D on Nov 25

This doesn't sound hopeless at all to me. You have lots of opportunities here if you play your cards right.

First off, I would read everything you can about Plan A and Plan B and start working Plan A NOW. She will come out from under the fog eventually and its important that she can come back to you - under certain circumstances - when she does. You just don't want to cause any damage that will prevent that, ok?

And that means being civil and pleasant as possible and avoiding ALL lovebusters. Don't argue with her EVER, but don't give her any money. Giving her money, except for the girls, only enables her behavior and allows her to stay away longer.

It would also be helpful if you could get in touch with his W and get her here so she can start working MB principles and we can help her. That is, IF she wants to save her marriage. If she is lovebusting from the other end, she is just THROWING her H into your W's arms. If she uses Plan A then she can hopefully attract him back towards her.

In essence, Plan A is a program of ATTRACTION designed to attract your wife back to you and away from him. Think of all the reasons that caused her to fall in love with you and try to give her those same reasons again. [as best as she will let you anyway]

Lastly, I would strongly recommend ordering Surviving an Affair by Harley and getting into couseling with the Harleys if you can. They are top notch marriage counselors who can often do more in 2 sessions than most others can EVER DO. And keep coming back here every day for support. You will get lots of help. But, by no means give up hope! This is far from over.

Have you hired an attorney? If she has her own attorney, I would suggest getting one of your own so you can protect your interests.

How is she supporting herself if she doesn't work?

[ December 11, 2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

My wife works as a hair dresser(cuts hair) now she drives all over to each persons house or they come to her parents house and she does it there. She had a beauty shop custom built at our house. I have changed the locks on it.I have stopped giving her money and now she is telling me I dont support my kids and dont deserve to see them. The other night she had our oldest daughter ask how much stock I have at work and what my 401k was worth. She had her ask me why am I being wonder dad. I told our daughter i was working out again and the wife had her ask how much I was paying for that. (I workout at home in the custom shop that is in our back yard)when she takes them to the Dr. she tells me how much she had to spend on the med. Now she has to pay for her own cell phone and was telling me the
bill was overdue, she tells me her father is helping her and her father payed for her Lasik eye surgery of 1600.00 dollars. this was 2 weeks after her mothers funeral. My wife hates best friends wife because ex Best friend told us all she did was talk bad about us, I have found out this is all lies. best friend did not want my wife and his talking so he made up lies. I have asked if she was cheating on me and she tells me no I was/am just unhappy. Nobody saw this, I cannot express this enough. I found out my ex best friend was telling my wife when I complained about some of her shopping sprees.
when I asked him about that he said I only done it once, I dont want to get in the middle..
I now know he would come back to my house while I was at work and talk about how happy he was now that he has left his wife and did not have to hear about her complaining. I have stopped all arguing with her. The D papers have not been served, I have called the court house and found out she filed, she wants to have me served at work.
Court says I can pick them up in 2 weeks. There is such a back log it will be at least July before we will have a court date. I dont want this, I love her which I have told her a million time's. what do I do now at Christmas, do I get her any gifts or not ?

thanks for all your help these past months have been the worst of my life. I know the wife is on Anti Dep, since her mothers death.

blog, here are my suggestions:

1. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A

2. counseling with the Harleys if you can

3. get the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley

4. recruit the OM's wife to help from her end if you can

Yes, I think it would be a good idea to get her a nice present for Christmas. Not anything too elaborate.

Don't tell her all the time that you love her or act too needy. It will just push her away. You want to ATTRACT her. Be polite, happy and civil around her.

Also, when your daughters ask you questions about your finances, etc, I would suggest telling them that it is private information between you and your wife. Don't let her drag them into it if you can help it.

Can you get on anti-depressants?

What do think led her to this affair? Are there emotional needs that weren't getting met in your marriage? What needs did the OM meet that lured her to him?

I think a large part was the going out on thursdays. I worked and would come home and spend time there, new pool, hottub, friends cooking out. she worked at home and guess liked getting away from home sometimes. I also think
he used what I was telling him about my wife against me. like if I complained about something he would tell her he didnt care about stuff like that. I am really doing fine now, just holding out hope but I also think of the worst. The
GBLOGBD stands for "get busy living or get busy dieing" quote from Shawshank Redemption.
I hold out hope and have never given up. should I tell my wife I know about the D papers or just have my attorney contact hers and act like no big deal. I really love her, I have always given her everything she wanted, boob job, pool, hottub
beauty shop.....I probably let her down emotionally, when she would cry about her mother
who also hated her, mother told her she was not welcome in her home as long as she was married to me. Her mother did ask to see me though before she passed away and wife and father in law asked me to be paul bearer at the funeral. I would get her to talk about the children, I thought if she talked about happy things she would feel better. I think the friend would listen when they went out on Thursdays. Maybe I couldnt see the forest because of the trees.
I have asked numerous times not very recent for her to meet me for lunch. She is always busy.
Crazy to think This could happen to me, wife and I were always together. what type of christmas gift are you talking about, I thought of getting her the canvas painting she wanted of the kids and getting it framed, that will be around 100 dollars. Do I get her to talk to me by not talking to her ?
I miss her but thinking of the gblogbd(Andy told Red before the breakout) keeps me
going forward, so does working out. Best Friends wife has told a mutual friend I could use any
thing she has in my case if it comes to that. X best friends mother is on the side of his wife.
x bestfriend and his wife have no chance he only talks to his kids once every 2 weeks, I call my children everynight and go eat lunch with them at school about every other week. Should I cut back on this ?

Anybody have ideas that my slow things down, do I tell her I know she filed, why is mine going so fast?

get:

Your story isn't unusual. That's the first thing I can tell you... ...although I know it doesn't helpt 2 hear that now, with time it will.

There are even people here that have been through speedier divorces than you're facing. You really do have a lot going for you, time being one of them. If the earliest court date is next July, you have between now and then 2 work on your plan A and make it the best you can. Also, if and when she does serve the DV papers, find out what your obligations are in returning them. Most places, you can stall a DV by waiting until the last minute, or protest it if you do have 2 respond.

I'm wondering. If you have a custom shop for her 2 work out of, why not let her have access 2 that so she can continue 2 work at home, even if she's not living there. It might be more convenient than the way she's doing things now, and it would be good plan A behavior, so long as it doesn't ADD 2 the friction, and she doesn't have access 2 other parts of the house you don't want her in.

Get her the painting of the kids if that's what you think she'd like. I think it's a great idea. Also, don't cut back on spending time with the kids. This is also good plan A behavior, and it goes a long way 2 help your kids through a tough time while giving you a distraction from worrying about what your WW is doing.

-ol' 2long

The shop is in the back yard and I have told her she can and should use it. she told me no. She told me i will get by, She is very angry, even in the past when people would talk about my ex best friend wife would be very defensive of him.
shoud i let her know I found out she filed or
just have an attorney contact hers, What do I do now that I cut off the money and she complains, what do I tell her without her getting mad and telling me how sorry I am again. Any plan A help is welcome.

get:

"The shop is in the back yard and I have told her she can and should use it. she told me no. She told me i will get by,"

Then don't bring it up anymore, but keep the option open. In other words, keep the shop just the way she left it, so that whenever she comes and sees it, she can be reminded of what she's giving up. IF you someday have 2 go 2 plan B or end up divorced, then you might consider packing up her stuff and converting it into a woodshop or machine shop with all kinds of cool guy 2ls! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm kidding, of course.

"She is very angry, even in the past when people would talk about my ex best friend wife would be very defensive of him. "

I would be very, very surprised if she's not having an EA and a PA with him. But it doesn't matter. These angry outbursts are "necessary" for her 2 justify her behavior and protect herself from facing the consequences of her choices. She's "blame-shifting." The best remedy for that is simply NOT 2 play along. Don't blame her, either. Once, last year, when my W tried 2 blame me for the umpteenth time for her A, I tried a different tack. I said "Tell you what. I will cheerfully accept full responsibility for everything that's wrong with our M. That way, you don't have 2 worry about who's fault anything was. It's all mine. Does that help?" And she ac2ally came 2 MY defense, saying "It wasn't all your fault." But you know what? That only helped for a few minutes. The fog never cleared up and we slogged on for many, many more months before real progress started 2 show. I think that, looking back on it now, it showed me just how important truly following the plan A plan is. You will struggle with thoughts of how 2 make sense of what's happening, when logic and reason have absolutely nothing 2 do with it, and so cannot be applied. Plan A is behavior modification. It's empirically developed by the Harleys through applying and fine-tuning it via working with thousands of couples over the years. Cases like yours are prime candidates for MB methods. You WILL make it!

"shoud i let her know I found out she filed or
just have an attorney contact hers,"

I wouldn't let her know anything until you get served, and only THEN have your attorney contact hers. You don't know yet whether she will even have you served. Many get cold feet before they serve you. Many others get cold feet AFTER they serve. And still others get cold feet when the DV becomes final.

"It ain't over until we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" - Animal House.

"What do I do now that I cut off the money and she complains, what do I tell her without her getting mad and telling me how sorry I am again."

If you have 2 cut off the money, tell her in an email or written letter. Be kind, not spiteful. If she gets angry, try 2 ignore her anger. Ignore her emails and phone messages, or deflect if you can if she confronts you in person. Let her OWN her own anger and deal with it somehow. Don't accept it. You didn't put her in the si2ation she's created.

best,
-ol' 2long

I know she has filed and was told by the court I could come pick the papers up without being served at work papers will be ready in 2 weeks. She told me several months ago she filed the papers then told her previous attorny not to file. Now out of the blue she has filed and has not told me, I have cutoff all conversation with her unless its about the children, should i ask her to lunch ? or what
I am in need of plan A advice, how often to wifes return ? I want my family back..

I know she has filed and was told by the court I could come pick the papers up without being served at work
Don't go pick them up. If you don't get served or sign a waiver, then you are not notified.

Thanks, I will not pick them up. If I am to be served it will be at work. Do I ask her out to lunch and let her tell me no, just ask how she has been doing, I really dont know where to start. Months ago I was asking what she doing all day, hwere she went etc. I have not asked in
in about 6-8 weeks, Should i continue to call the children every night. The wife gets mad when I tell them I miss them. please help.

Ask her 2 lunch if you want 2. If she says no, don't be upset (and if you anticipate it and feel you'd get upset, don't ask her). Do what you feel you can 2 stay in contact with her during plan A, so long as you aren't applying 2 much pressure on her. Now, it could be that ANY contact will feel like pressure 2 her. You'll have 2 play that by ear. In any case, read up on plan A and avoid ALL LBs while in it. Be religious about that, as it's by far the most important thing you need 2 do during plan A (or anytime between now and the rest of your life, for that matter).

She gets upset when you tell your kids you miss them? ...Sheez! ...well, DON'T say that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But by no means stop talking 2 your kids about how much you love them.

Why don't you have joint custody of your kids?

edit: By "don't say that" I meant don't say "sheez!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> By all means tell your kids you miss them if you do!

-2long

[ December 11, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]

I can see the kids when I want, I see them o nthe weekends, everyother weekend now. Another question, do I stop going out with friends to eat
or watch a game at some of the local restraunts like TGI*, Is there any time frame I can expect to have her come clean ? I have heard that my Ex Best Friend admitted to his mother he had an affair on his wife, Should I talk to her whom I know well ?

I just talked to my wife about our daughters birthday party in Jan. My wife told me I am not welcome at the party she is going to give. Should I go ?

gb, you can still go out with friends and carry on with your life. Just don't go on any dates, ok?

I think the best thing to do right now is to talk to her when you have an opportunity and just be as pleasant and confident as possible. Don't bring up ANY RELATIONSHIP issues or tell her you miss her or anything like that.

And don't let her drag you into a fight. If she complains just nicely say: " I am sorry you feel like that. I hear ya. Sorry, but I have to get going. ALWAYS keep your conversations short [under 10 minutes] and pleasant and always be the one to END the conversation.

I also wouldn't suggest cutting back on your time with the kids. Your childrens welfare comes before ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

Why don't you get her something like a nice poinsettia or something for Christmas??

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 I just talked to my wife about our daughters birthday party in Jan. My wife told me I am not welcome at the party she is going to give. Should I go ? <hr /></blockquote>Oh no, don't go. She sounds very hostile and you need to try and change that. How did you respond when she said that? Why are you not welcome?

get:

Going out with friends 2 watch a game now and then is a great idea. Just don't "date", okay?

It's good you're seeing your kids regularly. Definitely keep that up.

As for how long it might take for your W 2 "come clean." Well, she may never. Most As tend 2 last a year or 2 before they "burn out" or run their course. You can shorten it considerably by bursting the fantasy bubble. If you don't have "proof" that there is an A, you may need 2 get it, but I don't think you'll need 2. Over time, as you read about them, you'll be able 2 tell even if you don't have firm confirmation (read the articles on the home page about infidelity - you'll quickly see what I mean). In any case, if you work as though she IS, you can't go wrong. So long as you do a good plan A, that is.

I guess it's sort of surprising she'd be angry about you seeing your D at her birthday party. I don't think that's considerate at all. I hope others chime in. I wouldn't just show up though.

-2long

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:

I just talked to my wife about our daughters birthday party in Jan. My wife told me I am not welcome at the party she is going to give. Should I go?<hr /></blockquote>No don't crash the party, and instead throw a party of your own for your daughter the day before her B-day. In this way, your daughter will know that you love her and have not forgotten her B-day despite the fact that you are not with her every day.

danged 2ble post!

2dles,
-2long

[ December 11, 2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]

Just talked to the kids, the wife got on the phone and said she doent know if I can see them on Christmas, I responded lets not get the kids in the middle of this, then she told me I made her sick, and the only way she can be happy is to get everything I have, house 401k everything, she said she is going to try and take everything I have, She told me she has all kinds of friends
telling her she should do this and that to me, she is madder now that she has ever been, telling me I am stupid and that I am talking about her and calling people she knows, this is not true. I just let her ramble and asked her why do you want to try and crush me. she said she has lived in He$$ the past 14 years. She just told me one of the Dr's that was treating her mother before she passed away in Sept called her and asked her out on a date once the D is over. The wife said she just wants to get rid of me and never see me. I last spoke to her on Tuesday night and told her I was getting the girls Friday after school, Tonight she said why didnt you tell me you was getting them, she didnt remmber me telling her and is putting the blame on me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
I just let her ramble and asked her why do you want to try and crush me. <hr /></blockquote>KILL HER WITH KINDNESS. When she says stuff like this, don't respond defensively. She is just trying to bait you into a fight.

When she says this stuff, just say "I'm sorry you feel so bad tonight, dear. Let's talk another time when you feel better. G'night."

Don't engage her when she is a bully. Don't react to her.

I called the wife and told her what yo usaid, sorry you feel so bad tonight I will talk to you
another time, she told me this is how I am going to be until we divorce. she said she is tired of being nice. I just told her goodnight she is now saying her kids since I did not pay her this month. She said they are not my kids anymore, I just let it slide.

Very good. She is feeling guilty and the only way to make that go away is to turn you into the bad guy. If she can make you mad, you will be the bad guy and will justify her shabby behavior. If you don't give her any justification, then she will have to feel guilty and start thinking about her own behavior. So, just hold your tongue. Don' let her run over you, but be FIRM and very kind and civil.

when should I try and talk to her again, she is telling me all of these different people are telling her different things, do i let them slide or do I ask some of them to see if it is true. when she tells me people say@@@@@ and its worng do I tell her what was really said.
example wife said one of her customers said I was
mean and told her I had lost weight because I was on the divorce diet. what I told her customer I had lost weight because I was single
now and had to cook for myself

Let them slide.

Just say, "thanks for telling me, dear. I am sorry, but I have to go start the dryer. You take care!"

Blow it off....

so when do I take up for myself? when I asked my wife why she is acting like she is she tells me because I have a backbone now.
do I ignore EVERYTHING and hope for the best in the future?

Letting an insane person bait you into a fight is not "taking up for yourself," it is letting yourself being manipulated by an insane person. You just don't fight with her. You kill her with kindness. That way she has no excuse to be angry with you, which will help her come out of the fog sooner. Don't make YOURSELF the issue here because that will only prevent her from dealing with the consequences of her actions.

Just imagine that you are dealing with a drunk right now. You can't reason with a nut and fighting only makes it worse. Your best bet is to just hang on and don't burn any bridges until sanity returns. You don't want to cause permanent damage in response to a temporary problem.

Read this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=020829

One of the reasons my wife is so angry is she thinks I have told everybody lies, when I meet someone and they ask how I'm doing I tell them
I feel like crap, most ask what happened and I tell them "she just walked out on me and took the girls with her" some people I tell about the cell phone and money but most I just tell she just left me. Any ideas on what to say or is this ok.

She is angry because the truth of her actions is getting out and she wants to hide. Exposing the affair - and shabby behavior - is a good thing because it often helps the WS to confront the truth. If she gets angry about it, just say: "I am sorry you are upset about it, but it is the truth" and change the subject. You shouldn't help her HIDE her shabby behavior.

Even so, I wouldn't go out of your way to antagonize her. Everyone knows now, so quit telling people about her antics.

So let me get this right, pretty much agree with everything she tells me, when she tells me I am a sorry father, just tell sorry you feel that way and every now and tell her I am a very good father just to let her know I have a backbone.
She also pick every word I say apart, if I said it looks like rain today she would say sure does then the next day I would say wow pretty blue sky wife would go NO YOU SAID IT LOOKS LIKE RAIN, SEE YOUR A LIAR!!!!!!Just agree right ?

get:

CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Not just during your conversation with HER, but in your own HEAD. Your life is about YOU first. Fix the things you know are wrong with YOU. Let her fester in her own juices for now.

"So let me get this right, pretty much agree with everything she tells me, when she tells me I am a sorry father, just tell sorry you feel that way and every now and tell her I am a very good father just to let her know I have a backbone."

Jawless fishes have had backbones since the Ordovician. This isn't much of an accomplishment. Anger is a WEAKNESS, not a STRENGTH.

"She also pick every word I say apart, if I said it looks like rain today she would say sure does then the next day I would say wow pretty blue sky wife would go NO YOU SAID IT LOOKS LIKE RAIN, SEE YOUR A LIAR!!!!!!Just agree right ? "

NO. DON'T HAVE DISCUSSIONS LIKE THAT. Or, 180 it. "Yeah, you're right. I'm a lyin', sea-goin' sack of salty salmon s***, alright." ...on 2nd thought, don't say that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Just don't get dragged in2 those arguments. And when she tries, ignore her. (I did this when my W tried 2 get me in2 fights after D-day. She's a "good arguer", I'm not. There's no way 2 "win" an argument based in anger, so why participate? I chose not 2 participate. Believe me, it pissed her off, but it ENDED the argument, because I simply wouldn't say ANYTHING.)

When you deflect by saying something like "I'm sorry you feel that way. Oh! The rock-polishing machine is acting up again, gotta go!" HANG UP! Don't wait for a response, because she'll just know she CAN get you 2 fight.

Do you ever correspond via email? That might be better, because it's easier 2 ignore the negativity in a reply. Also, see if you can arrange a specific time 2 call the kids, so THEY can know 2 answer the phone, not your WW.

-ol' 2long

pretty much agree with everything she tells me
No. But you don’t need to disagree. Just leave it alone if possible.

This is what Steve Harley told me to do.
If she criticizes you, then tell her, “Wow, I never saw it that way before (or) I did not realize I was doing that. Thanks for letting me know. I’ll work on not doing it like that again.”
And then don’t do it again.

This will totally take the wind out of her sails.

ok, gotta have some help, wife is now wanting her Stair Stepper. She asked for it and I have not said yes or no, just forgot to bring it when I brought the kids back. She said her "father"
bought her one. Also Do I bring up the " A doctor
asked me out and I said I would go out with him when we are done" I know she is jerking my chain. She told me after she left she hates guys and will never re-marry.

Give her the stair stepper HAPPILY. Offer to go to her house and set it up for her. WITH A SMILE ON YOUR FACE!

Don''t say a WORD about her dating the doctor comment. She is only trying to yank your chain and if you stop reacting to it, she will stop doing it.

Don't you see that she is just trying to make you mad? And every time she succeeds you help her avoid looking at herself. As long as she can keep you mad, then YOU are the bad guy and NOT HER. Stop making yourself the bad guy, ok? Stop HELPING her avoid taking an honest look at herself.

Here is your motto: KILL HER WITH KINDNESS

She said her "father" bought her one.
Why‘d you put father in quotes?

Also Do I bring up the " A doctor
asked me out and I said I would go out with him when we are done"
No, don’t bring it up. She may/maybe not be doing it to get a rise out of you. Don‘t take the bait.

I know she is jerking my chain. She told me after she left she hates guys and will never re-marry.
That means absolutely nothing.

I put father in quotes because she has told me her father bought her the cell phone and payed the bill, couple of hundred per month, gave her the 4k in her check book, payed for her lasik eye surgery,,, I know the cell phone is a lie, I found out it was registered in friends name and he payed the bills, it was one of his company phones. doubt very much her father has 4k for her checking account or 1600 for the eye surgery, she also has one of the top D attorneys in town..

ok, how did I do. I had the kids this weekend,
Sat. night there was a party for a friend that returned from Iraq and for another friend. I went to the first party to say welcome home, etc. Then I went to the 2nd party. This was around 11pm. when I walked in guess who was there. My WIFE and her Father. I went up and said hi and shook her fathers had and said Hi.
Wife asked wheres my kids, I told her with my brohter and sisater inlaw and kids cousins who are the same age as my kids. The 2nd party ended early so I just turned around and going to leave. The wife grabbed me and told me how sorry I was, then on the way out of the bar/restraunt
she was saying Oh you dont have money to give to me but you have money to go out bla bla bla.
as I was going out the door she grabbed the door and would not move. wife said I was checking up on her, I told her I was only there because I was invited to a party. She said she knew, it was someone she did not like who invited me.
any way as I was walking to the car, she followed me accross the parking lot telling me how her attorney was going to really like this.
I got to my car and she was going on and on
about how her and her father was out trying to have a good time since her mother passed away, she passed Sept 5th. after wife rambled for about 4 min. I told her I seen her point of view and did not mean to ruin her night, got in the car and left.
how did I do

Were you snarky or were you polite and civil? Why did she follow you out to the car? Why is she so furious?

P.S. It sounds from your telling that you did VERY GOOD, btw. You didn't let her bait you and it appears that you stole some time and attention away from the OM.

no I was very nice, smiled, Told her i did not want to ruin her night with her father shook both of their hands while inside, Told them both goodbye when I was leaving, aBOUT 1 MIN AFTER i ARRIVED since other party had left already. OM was not there. wife and her father, Why she followed me to my car, I dont know I said nothing, when I got to the car i turned around and said goodbye,
very polite.
got in car and left.
going to take kids home now I will update in 1 hr
I hope.....

gbd,

I'd say you did VERY well....under duress for sure! Your wife is trying very hard to provoke you and you didn't let her. Good for you. I know this is hard...but feel good about how you conducted yourself.

Ok Im back, took kids back to wife, I also took the stair stepper and told her I realized I was being selfish, When she told me she had one already I told her ok, Maybe some of your friends may want it if not let me know and I will pick it up or take it to goodwill. She then started asking me if I was talking to OM's wife.
I told wife it was cold out, she then asked me
who told me she was at the club/ I just told her our friend that she spoke to , I told her I was invited to a party. Wife then asked how I was going to pay for my drinks since I didnt have money to pay her, I told her I was not drinking last night. Wife also said she was not looking for dirt on me but EVERYONE is calling her telling her all this stuff. I let it all slide, I
then told the wife what I was going to buy the kids for Christmas, I told her if I had some of the same gifts as her to let me know and I would change mine, I told her I have bought some clothes already, she said " it costs a lot dosent it, I didnt make a sound. I told her goodye and then she stopped me and asked me if I wanted to go to kids Christmas party at the school, I told her only if she didnt mind, I told her if you dont want me there then I will not go, she said she didnt care, I told her to let me know the time. She then told me I could have the kids on Christmas eve, I tried to set a time and she said you can have them all day as long as I have them back at night, I told her no problem.
How did I do.?

Again....surprisingly well under assault. If you have portrayed your responses about these last few incidents accurately....I'm almost ready to cannonize you. You tellin' us everthing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes, please do, the wife asked me tonight how could I be so mean sometimes and so nice the next. I told her I had to change my self before I expected anybody else to change, Wife said
over the years I was mean. I am telling all of you, we had no more arguments that any other married couple, I always invited her EVERYWHERE I
went. I told her a million times, if she was not werlcome then I wasnt welcome. Sure over the years 14 I have said some things I shouldnt have, but who hasnt. I have told her I was sorry, as a matter of fact every time there was an argument she would bring up my past wrongs and I would tell her I was sorry again. A lot of times I would get " you dont mean it". I would not have told her I was sorry if i didnt mean it. Bottom line, we had the arguments about
house being clean, I should have helped more sure, helped wash clothes more, clean dishes more. Probably some other things as well, but to have her walk out like she did. NEVER in anybodys
lifetime do I or did I deserve that.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
I told her only if she didnt mind, I told her if you dont want me there then I will not go, she said she didnt care, I told her to let me know the time. She then told me I could have the kids on Christmas eve, I tried to set a time and she said you can have them all day as long as I have them back at night, I told her no problem.
How did I do.? <hr /></blockquote>Do I have to call you gblogbd? Can I call you by your first name? gblogbd is too long to type!

I think you did very good tonight! Do you feel that she is backing down a bit since you haven't been reacting to her? She seems to sounds more conciliatory in inviting you to the Xmas party and giving you the kids on Christmas Eve. Do you see it that way? Is she backing down?

Do you know all about lovebusters, what they are, and that you should avoid them?

Will you take a minute and read this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html

seems like she backed off some, But she done this in the past then next time I talk to her she has changed her mind, telling me I done this or that when I havent. no I do not know about the love busters, as it is now I am stil not invited the daughters bday in jan, I was told i had to plan my own and get my sister in law to help, wife was telling her I was a dead beat dad
and didnt care about the kids, Sis in law told wife I was a great father and could not imagine how she tought that of me, Sis in law told me she wanted to tell her this is what you get when you walk out.

Steve

Steve, she will get bored with picking fights with you when she sees it won't get a reaction. Just keep on doing that consistently and she will soften up. Will you go read the link I gave you?

Any thoughts on what you want to give her for Christmas? I figure a few weeks of treating her like a princess would be followed up nicely by a thoughtful Christmas present.

please give me any ideas you think would fit
right now at this point in our life.
I talked to our friend that was there, she said the wife kept digging up the paast, our friend told her why didnt you call em. wife did not say anything. friend said wife just seemed to be very mad, told her i was telling people she and OM were an item. wife denied this ot the friend and said I dont even talk to him anymore.
wife told friend she never cheated.
still need gift ideas.

Well, it depends on what she likes. I like stuff from Bath and Body Works. I think a nice gift basket would be appropriate. Not too expensive, but very thoughtful. If it were me, I would want a gift basket that had some Fig Body Scrub [this stuff is wonderful!], some lotion, body wash, hand wash, candle, maybe some foot treatment stuff and gel socks. Does she like stuff like that?

You could write something nice on the card, like To XXXXX, I hope you have a wonderful day,

With all my love, Steve

You could also let the kids get her a little gift there and help them wrap it at your house. The kids could take it all home to her that night. That would be really sweet and would help her miss you on Christmas Day.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:

I talked to our friend that was there, she said the wife kept digging up the paast, our friend told her why didnt you call em. <hr /></blockquote>What exactly what she saying about the past? What is her complaint about you, beside telling people what she has been doing?

what do you mean like to xxxxx, ? Out to eat, future palns or what please help.
The wife likes the body stuff, I think I wil. I have also thought about a day spa package ?

Digging up the past, just stuf I have done years
ago, arguments etc. Times when she was really upset and I would just have her change the subject, Thought no tears meant she was happy, I was wrong.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 what do you mean like to xxxxx, ? Out to eat, future palns or what please help.
The wife likes the body stuff, I think I wil. I have also thought about a day spa package ?

Digging up the past, just stuf I have done years
ago, arguments etc. Times when she was really upset and I would just have her change the subject, Thought no tears meant she was happy, I was wrong. <hr /></blockquote>Did she feel like you didn't really care about her feelings? Would you go read up on the emotional needs and try to determine what her greatest needs are? What was it that attracted her to the OM? What need did he fill for her?

It's important to find out what went wrong here, but ALSO LET ME ASSURE you that she will probably exaggerate anything you did wrong so she can justify her affair. Even so, something happened that made her vulnerable to an affair and that is what we need to find out. You need to find out so you can start meeting that need that went unfulfilled. That is the key to attracting her back to you.

Emotional Needs: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Why Women leave: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

"XXXXXX" was for her NAME. To Sally, blah blah, blah. A day spa package would be nice.

[ December 14, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:

Times when she was really upset and I would just have her change the subject, Thought no tears meant she was happy, I was wrong. <hr /></blockquote>How would you have her change the subject?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 so when do I take up for myself? when I asked my wife why she is acting like she is she tells me because I have a backbone now.
<hr /></blockquote>hmmm, does she feel like you have not respected her or her opinion? Does she feel like you have run over her all these years? She says she has a backbone now. Did she feel like she had no backbone in the past?

I would hsve her talk about the kids to try and cheer her up, or talk about vacations we had been on. Yes, she thinks i never listened to her, she thinks I always had to have my way.
Not true, shop,pool,etc were her ideas.

So she is imagining all this? What do you think made her unhappy then?

No I am not sparkling clean, I have vented about the house not being clean, I really think I have let her down emotionally, we always done thing together. I think the OM got to her that way, he listened better than I did I really think so. He is also a snake, when I would complain about wife charging stuff on Visa or buying stuff we didnot need I am sure he talked to her about stuff like that and would say, I wouldnt care if you chargedxxx or I would help you clean, I always clean my house. I know this is lies on his part. He used what guy talk we had against me. My wife came to me in the past and said I know you complain to XXXX about me charging bla bla bla on the visa. He never once told me anything she complained of. I really think
she does think I was not a good listener to her, I admit I probably should have done a better job listening. I think OM filled that gap. Is the Emotional needs one of the harder areas to rebuild ?

Steve:

I 2, think you're doing a great job under pressure.

"A lot of times I would get " you dont mean it". "

And the right response?

Don't SAY "Yes I do." If you say anything, like above: "I'm sorry you feel that way." Then, SHOW here through you consistent, thoughtful actions, that you DO mean it. That you ARE sincere.

You're doing fine. Keep doing fine!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
-ol' 2long

Thanks for all the support, any ideas on what to
write in the Christmas Card. I need some do's and donts.

called the court house, I found out I will probably be served this week with the papers,
What do I say to my wife once I get the papers,
nothing and just my attorney contact hers ?
I got the be polite thing down to an art, its really not hard once to accecpt the fact they could be gone forever. I dont want this to happen.

Steve, about the Christmas card, I am not clear yet on what she wants from you. See, I can't tell if she is trying to get your attention with all this or if she is in the throes of an active affair and thusly, DETACHED.

But since you are now trying to show her your BEST side, I would suggest putting something simple in the card like Merry Christmas, love from your H. Nothing too expressive. You can't really go wrong with that unlesss you think she might WANT more.

I wouldn't even mention the divorce papers. But be sure and contact your own attorney RIGHT AWAY so you can protect yourself! If she brings it up, just tell her that you love her and don't want a divorce. Leave it at that. Don't let her bait you, ok?

I called the court house today and was told it will probably be this week sometime when the papers are delivered to me. I was going to let my
attorney contact hers and not say anything. when she asks I was then going to say I dont want to divorce I love you. I spoke to my friend who saw her out this weekend and was told wife was drunk
and just talked in circles when asked what i had done that was so bad, talking about stuff that happened years ago, said i come home in a bad mood, was moody etc. I called to speak with the girls wife asked why I was calling from cell, I told her I was on the way to pick up a prescription. she asked what for and I told her some med. to help me get healthy.. she seemed fine.
I contacted an attorney today and asked if I HAD to give wife money since she left, I was told no.
Should I give money to her, If I stop will this make her move further away what do I do?

You should only give her enough money to take care of the girls. If you give her more, you are simply enabling her and preventing her from realizing the consequences of her actions. Remember, it was SHE who wanted to leave the marriage. She shouldn't then have all the benefits of the marriage when she leaves.

Have you been giving her living expenses, too?

I have been giving 500 a month and helping with school supplies, dr bills and prescriptions.

do I mention the papers when they are served

no, don't mention anything. Just be Mr Pleasant and Charming, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

$500 is a fair amount for 2 children so you should probably continue paying that amount until your attorney tells you otherwise.

the attorney told me not to give anything since she left.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 the attorney told me not to give anything since she left. <hr /></blockquote>The attorney told you this today? Why?

I called the attorney i am going to use, I explained that my wife left the house and moved out. I have been in the house since, The wife moved in with her father. The attorney said I did not have to give her any money, I wonder if me not giving money will make wife realize what she left or make her dislike me more.
Attorney said according to state law I did not have to give money since she left, We live in Alabama

ok, let's talk about this. Why would you want to stop giving her money? I mean, its not like you are giving more than what your kids would need for support. Its not unfair or out of line for you to pay $500 towards your childrens support. You are their father and should contribute to their support.

On the other hand, if you stopped, what would you achieve? Wouldn't it just make her furious for no purpose? I think there are some things you HAVE to do that might make her angry, but there needs to be a good reason behind it. I can see no good reason whatsoever in this move. It would be negative every way you look at it and would hurt your children and YOU the most. As a consequence, you wouldn't be meeting your obligation as father and would give her certain ammunition against you.

right after she left i spoke to an attorney, this was back in August, He also told me not to give her any money. When the wife found out i had TALKED to an attorney she went nuts, I explained to her I was confused and did not know what to do, she was telling me she was going to TRY and get everything. I told her this is why I talked to one. I told her the attorney said not to give her any money, she could care less, all she did was compain and make a big deal out of thefact i contacted an attorney.

This might all be a moot point when you get served this week and take the papers to your attorney. I wonder if she knows that she is at a serious disadvantage legally? Do you have proof of her affair? Does the OM's W?

The OM's wife suspects him of having an affair with my wife, i have confronted my wife several times and she has denied, I also asked my ex best friend, he has denied it as well. I do know he has told his brother my wife was the love of his live. I have stuff like money in checking
account, where is getting all of the money, she shops almost everyday, I have recipts 100 each where he is getting my car washed waxed etc.
ex best friend admitted to his mother he had an affiar, I dont know if he told his mother who he had it with, I dont know of anybody he was friends with he could have had an affair with except for my wife

So what was the reason she gave for leaving? Can you have her tailed for a couple of days to see who she is seeing?

ok, I just reread your first post and see where she just up and said it was over. Did she ever say anything like "I love you but am not in love anymore?"

I have evidence where they me for lunch, she tookhim to the dr office when he needed surgery.
This was a couple of months ago, I dont know if they continue to see each other, he bought her a cell phone, I dont know if she still has it, Best friends wife knows about cell phone, so he probably had it turned off.

Well, I wish you knew the truth. But since you don't, the best you can do is continue to try and develop civil communications with her and see where that takes you.

what are the chance she will return 50/50
what are the results from this board.
or is ther any waty to tell
how many wondering wifes try and return?

I don't know what the odds are, but I do know that the Harley's are extremely successful marriage counselors. They specialize in infidelity and are probably your best bet. They do phone counseling and I know several on this forum have found them very helpful.

yes my wife said she loves me but she is not in love with me, she also said she dosent know if she ever loved me. She said she only stayed amrried so her mom wouldnt think she was a failure. Sha said she stayed with me because she had noplace to go. I have heard them all.

CLASSIC affair talk. Now I really think she is in an affair. She is using all the classic language and rewriting history.

Wow! I thought I was the only one. My wife said the exact same thing! She loves me but is not in love with me. She thinks she does not know how to love. Hearing those things hurt so much. But is it possible that she really does not mean all of this? How is that? And is it possible that she will take all of those words back? Its amazing that they all say the same thing.

I wonder how often affairs turn into happy marriages.

how is she rewriting history?
Now what do I do to try and get her back,
I know she has filed for D. Do I just sit and wait it out and see if turns around?

Steve, she is trying to recast the past in as bad a light as possible in order to justify her actions. This is CLASSIC behavior of a WS in an affair. Did she ever tell you any of crap BEFORE she got in the affair? Of course not. It is just FOG TALK that we hear all the time.

The only thing you can do right now is try to attract her back TO YOU, via Plan A, and do everything in your power to end the affair. Just keep on being as nice as possible so that you don't give her any more excuses to demonize you.

And I really do wish you would call the Harley's for counseling. They can often zero right in on a situation and give good advice on how to proceed.

what are some good ways to help to anything that is going on, I just wish things would slow down, why hasnt she told me she filed?
I think time will be on my side, It will be July or Aug before the court date from what I have been told.
I am going to continue giving her money.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by solon:
 I wonder how often affairs turn into happy marriages. <hr /></blockquote>The generally accepted statistic here is 3-5%. Not great odds, but both the WS and OP are great at deluding themselves into believing "it's different for us." Amazing that all these "we're different" scenarios follow the same old song and dance.

anyone know how long Emotional affairs last?
are they more difficult to end the the others.

Do I just keep being nice, not saying much when I am around her because she is hashing problems, I told her the other day if there are any duplicate Christmas presents for the kids to let me know and I will return the ones I got them and
get something else, I also told her if she did not want me at the kids school Christmas party then I would not attend.

This is how I have been really cut back on the
comments the past 3 weeks. Do I wait for her to ask about lunch or take a chance and ask her ?

Okay...

Steve and solon, you BOTH need 2 do some serious RESEARCH.

You are both amazingly ignorant of how these things go, when you've been dealing with this for weeks or months already. Sorry, but there's no excuse for not doing everything you can 2 understand how affairs "work" and how they should end, especially since the info is so readily available.

GET YOURSELVES COPIES OF "SURVIVING AN AFFAIR" AND "HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS" first thing. Go 2 the homepage and you'll find info on how 2 order over the internet.

Also, I strongly, STRONGLY suggest you consider calling one of the Harleys for phone counceling RIGHT NOW. Both of your sitches are SO BY THE BOOK it'd be funny if it wasn't real life. They are expensive, but they are amazingly efficient. And it would be a lot better 2 have a PLAN of action than flopping around like a fish on a hot boat deck like you're doing now. We can help SOME, but we're NOT professionals.

As for the things WSs say? Yep, we've ALL heard ALL of those fog-latin phrases. They ALL say them. They all behave this way, 2, with minor variations on this scripted theme. And that is precisely why the MB methods work so well 2 end affairs and restore marriages.

Go there!
-ol' 2long

Thank you, 2Long! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ok let em ask you this, when I call and talk to the kids the wife never asks or seems to want to talk, Should i ask to talk to her and say something just wanted to see how you are doing ?
any ideas

Steve, you could ask how she is doing, that wouldn't hurt. I would stay away from any relationship talk, though.

Did you read what 2long said about reading? Have you given some thought to talking to Dr Harley?

gblogbd I suggest that you consider the following:

1) Act Happy. Be as cheerful as possible. Be positive. Put on this behavior when you have contact with your W. Prepare yourself to act this way. Practice if need be. Be an actor if need be. Fake it, if you must. Fake it til you truly do get to the point where you experience your life as positive (It really is, you know!). Remember that there are millions of people out there who are worse off than you are at this moment and who would trade places with you in a second.

2) Get a life. Rekindle old hobbies or interests that you have discarded but still interest you. Try out new hobbies or interests. It's very therapeutic.

3) Focus on 4 key words. Every day, every hour and every minute if need be, plaster your mind with these 4 life-saving words: I WILL MAKE IT! This becomes your mantra. Wake up with it. Put it on your mirror. Eat lunch with it. Go to sleep with it. Convey in every which way to your W that you WILL MAKE IT. Say, "I will make it! I prefer to make it with you (if that is what you REALLY want), but if that doesn’t happen, I will make it without you. Either way, I want you to know that I will make it." State with erect, confident body language, unblinking, direct eye contact and calm, firm, consistent tone of voice.

4) To-the-point small talk. Make conversations with your W brief and
to the point. Talk only about the solutions to specific problems that need to be addressed, such a particular bills, household or children concerns. Let silence prevail if she wants to "hook" you into melodrama. Politely but firmly end such conversations.

5) Tend to agree. Try to find the kernal of truth in what your W is saying and agree with it. Acknowledge it. If she says "I don’t love you anymore.", you say to her "It certainly seems that way. Thank you for your truthfulness.". If she says "I’m not sure what I want." You say "Yes, it must be confusing for you." If she tells you "I’m thinking of moving out." You say "Do you have an idea of when you’re going to do that? Knowing would help me plan for my activites."

6) Expand your social relationships, including those of the OPPOSITE SEX. Make new friends. Go to lunch. Surround yourself with interesting people who have the potential to care about you. Rekindle old friendships that have faded. With the opposite sex? Yes! I’m not talking about a revenge affair or sleeping with somone. I’m not talking about dating. I’m talking about being friends without intimacy (sharing of deepest thoughts and feelings) and learning about you and how you relate, especially to those of the opposite sex.

7) Get sexy – in a healthy way. Get in shape. Lose weight. Run. Walk. Exercise. Eat right. Enjoy your body. Take supplements. Take extreme care of your body. Begin to feel healthy…and healthy is sexy.

Do not use these strategies as a manipulative tool to change what your W is doing. She will pick up on your motive and see through it. She will easily manipulate you back to where she wants you (whereever that was to make you predictable and controllable). You engage in these exercises and strategies because you want to for you. You know that this is the best way to live and at this point, be in relationship with your spouse. This is the best way for you to survive and retain integrity. Here’s the kicker. A by-product of these efforts is usually dramatic changes on the part of your spouse. Don’t be surprised if he/she moves closer. Don’t be surprised if she does a double-take. Don’t be surprised if she decides to 'work on the marriage.' But, don’t expect it!

Yes I have, I was going to get the book first.
will this work if my wife is not willing.
I offered counseling in the past and she said she did not want it. Another friend of mine called and said he saw her this past weekend and spoke to her, Frist thing wife did was to tell him nothing was going on with OM who friend alos knows.

You need to get the book so you can understand what is going on in her head and better handle the situation. You should not recommend counseling to her at this point. Trying to educate her or any relationship talk is a lovebuster.

P.S. the counseling I suggested is FOR YOU. The Harleys can help you understand the situation and guide you in the best way to handle it. They may even be able to think of a way to get her into counseling.

Steve:

"will this work if my wife is not willing."

Yes. My FWW is STILL not willing. Not willing 2 go 2 a counselor, that is, and I had planned 2 talk 2 cerri, a marriage coach trained by Willard Harley. I'm still going 2 do that one of these days, but for now it wasn't the right thing for me.

But you can recover your M single-handedly if you're W isn't willing BUT isn't interested in getting off the fence, either. It's a lot harder that way and it takes longer. I'm doing it, because I have 2. It'd be a lot easier if your W were willing 2 follow MB methods and work WITH YOU, but for now she can't, so you have 2 work on yourself.

Change yourself for the better. Find your weaknesses and improve on them. We all have them. Trials like this give us the oppor2nity 2 understand them and change them. WE can't change others, only ourselves. But when we change ourselves, we're often surprised 2 see those around us change in response 2 our outward expressions.

It's pretty cool, when you can see it happening!

-ol' 2long

globld, whatever you do, DO NOT ask to speak to her. I am telling you, I am about 8 months ahead of where you are and if I could go back I would NOT do that. It will only aggrevate her and hurt you. I remember I sent flowers to her, just because. When she got them she sent me an email saying, "The flowers were nice, but this has to stop. Please don't send anymore". She will repay all my kindness with cruelty and it hurt like you would not believe. If you ask to speak with her, she will be cruel to you, or probably will not even get on the phone. You will be able to detect a tone in her voice that says, "I really don't want to talk to you". She will not start off being that blatantly cruel, but if you keep being kind and reaching out like that, she will blatantly abuse you. Show your kindness in such a way that she cannot respond back to you.
Trust me on this. It will save you much unneeded heartache.

Solon, you are right, I just got off the phone with my wife. I was talking to the kids and she got on the phone, I asked if I could help her with the Kids Christmas party at school and she said I could not her her with anything all she wants is a divorce and told me hjow her atorney was going to make a fool of me, she then said it could have been different but your a liar ..............All I did while we were married was take up for you.....I spoke to the neighbors and they all think your crazy.....
I just told her ok if this is what you want ok, thats fine, whatever you want.what ever she said that I did wrong just agreed with her told her your right. I also found out that the wife got in a car wreck, I asked her about that and she finally told me why do you care, I have it taken care of, I told her she should tell me these things. She asked why and I told her I cared about her, plus its our car. she then wwent into Oh, no you want to act all nice, its over Im gonna take everything you have. She then asked me If I had told people at work about us, I told her no
she told me she saw somebody and told them all about us......I asked who and she said none of my business. I told her that fine, if you dont want me to know. Any ideas

Just keep on playing nice. She is still trying to bait you and getting frustrated. She will run out of steam soon.

Steve:

Just don't get sucked in2 the black hole of any more of those baited arguments.

Look. If she files for DV, MOST STATES will not CARE if there's an A going on. They won't care about rumors of what you're doing or not doing either. Whatever she's entitled 2 in the way of settlement, she'll be entitled 2. Try not 2 worry about it. She's tweaked because you're not getting in2 her little range wars with her. Keep being nice, it'll boil her blood! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But in the meantime, prepare yourself for any even2ality. You don't need 2 hurry and sign papers or counterfile or anything, assuming she even serves you dV papers. Stall if you don't want a DV. Stay within the law, whatever you do.

And, of course, keep being Mr Nice Guy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

I think I done very well, She started telling me im getting 1/2 your 401k, were selling the house etc. I just kept telling her ok, that fine. She asked why I was like that, I told her its out of
my hands if the court says sell the house then thats what we will do, same with 401k and everything else. I told her by and she didnt want to get off the phone, I said good bye and hung up, 10 min later I called her back and told her I did not want to upset her I just called to see about our daughters Christmas party and see if I could help, then then she started right back, I told her again I didnt want to upset her and we could talk about this later. she said your right when we go to court, I again told her thats fine if thats what you want.

She's really trying to pick a fight. You got sucked into a bit of the baloney, but not too bad. Makes me wonder if she's trying to provoke you into saying something so she can pursue a Restraining Order. Next time, try to cut the conversation off quicker, even if you have to hang up on her. It "feeds" her need to have conflict to even try to have a rational discussion with her at this point. I'm trying to remember that old saying about arguing with a fool, but it's not coming to mind. Somebody here is sure to know it.

okwhat about this, my wife was in a car wreck, she was not hurt, she ran into the back of someone. My oldest daughter told me about it. when I asked my wife she told me not to worray about it. When I asked how she was doing she replied" why do you care now, you never cared before" she finally told me who was fixing the car. Do I call the body shop and get acopy of the estimate or let it ride? I really do care
all she said was the car will look like new when they are done with it.

gb.
I know your situation is very, very painful, but please - don't call her again. She's looking for every opportunity to hurt you and blame you. She's doing that to protect herself from responsibility and guilt and to justify her actions.
She will continue to act this way if you let her.

Please don't call her again. Don't ask her if you can help, don't ask her about the carwreck.
If your daughthers have their own cell phones, call them directly to avoid speaking with your wife.
remove yourself from the center of the drama.

Change whatever you know you need to change - within YOU, for YOU.
Write her a Plan B letter.
Tell her you love her and want your M to work - tell her ONCE - don't persue her any further.
Go dark and let her take the rollercoaster ride all by herself.

TMCM and others have already given you great advice! Listen to them, please.

Yeah, all of this is going to start taking a serious toll on your, all the cruelty, the best thing to do is not talk to her at all. If you want to get a word of love to her, write it, but even then, when she doesn't respond it will hurt. She sounds just like my wife sounded early on (in Feb.) and my wife is still cruel, though not as cruel as she was before. But I just don't talk to her. That's the best thing. It hurts, but not as bad as putting your love out there only to be trampled on.

update, went to the kids Christmas Party at school, when i got there my daughters ran to me, I then looked and saw my wife, she had a sour look on her face, My wife to to other daughters class and oldest daughter teacher came to me and said the wife was acting all happy then when she saw me the wind went out of her sails, teacher started laughing, she knows what up with us. I told the teacher I dont know why the wife is mad or upset she invited me. When I left I told the daughters goodbye, the wife was right by them, I told her bye real happy acting and she never said a word, I just left after that and said nothing else.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:

I told her bye real happy acting and she never said a word, I just left after that and said nothing else.<hr /></blockquote>Good job! Keep up the good work.

Always remember that your happiness is in your own hands and NOT in your WW's.

OK, I went to pick up the kids fro wifes parents house where she is staying since she left. The wife was not there the kids asked me to go see the room they have now. I looked and talked about how cute it was, wifes father was in the kitchen and could hear. We then went into the wife beedroom and they showed me some Christmas stockings the wife had made for them. When I turned and looked on the bed there were 2 more stockings, they had the OM's kids name on them.
I just looked and felt like tearing the whole room apart. I just got the kids and told them to go get in the car, I told the father in law it was nice of the wife to make the stockings for the OM children, he did not say a word. He has been a spineless man ever since I have met my wife. when wifes mother was being very eman and hateful telling the wife she looked like a stripper, my wifes father never said a word. this
is just an example of how he was the past 17 years. what do I do about the stockings ?
how did I do?

Will her dad tell her what you saw?

Hey Steve, did you ever get served the divorce papers? I think there's like a 10 day window that legally they have to get them to you once she files. If you haven't seen them yet then maybe she never really filed.

Also what part of Alabama are you in? I live near Montgomery although I'm in the Air Force and deployed overseas right now. I went through this crap 2 1/2 years ago when we were in Florida and it still haunts me daily. I never got an honest answer from my wife about what happened and have given up on ever getting one. I didn't find this website until way late in the affair and I didn't follow any of the plans.

sure her father will tell, they have been going out to eat and to clubs, since the mother in law is gone they have a relationship again. When I took the kids back last night my wife opened the door and let them in, I could not even see her, I guess she felt bad and could not even look at me. she hid behind the door, Do I mention the Christmas stockings to her or let it ride?

As of today I have not gotten the papers.
I found papers in her car where she was at an attorney's office Nov 17. I called the court and they filed on Nov 25th.

Live in Mobile

Steve,

As a general principle, you want to confront the WS with any evidence of an affair so you don't enable their attempt to hide it.

HOWEVER, in your case, I think it would work wonderfully in your favor if you said NOTHING. Right now she is stewing in her guilt, don't MESS THAT UP! When the enemy is destroying themselves, don't interfere.

If you say nothing, then she has no opportunity to bait you into fight about it. A fight will only help her get over her guilt and rationalize her affair. If you say nothing, she will be all alone with her guilt.

when I get served the papers do I tell her I got them and act like no big deal. When Do I tell the kids ?
Do I tell the OM's mother and father whom I know very well, this was my best friend of 20+ years
who is now going through a divorce.

I guess he NEVER was a friend or her a WIFE if
they could do this to me

also do I try and put off the D and hope for the best. I was told 4 days before she left teh house, she has been gone since July 3rd.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 when I get served the papers do I tell her I got them and act like no big deal. When Do I tell the kids ?
Do I tell the OM's mother and father whom I know very well, this was my best friend of 20+ years
who is now going through a divorce.

I guess he NEVER was a friend or her a WIFE if
they could do this to me <hr /></blockquote>Yes, I would try and drag out the divorce. I don't know that I would say anything about it, but that is up to you. The same as telling your kids.

I would suggest telling his parents. Harley recommends doing everything short of taking out a billboard. They should know also. If they are going to have an affair they have no right to expect that you will help them conceal it. The greater the exposure, the faster it will come to an end.

do I go talk to the dad and tell him what he is doing is wrong, he is more or less supporting what my wife is doing, he has let the OM in his house to watch football games and he had to have seen the stockings, do I tell him what he has done is so wrong and the kids will realize this in the years to come ?

I doubt if he will become a man at this late date.

Christams Eve update, I went and picked up the kids yesterday, when I got there the kids were playing, I said Hi to my wife and Merry Christmas, got the unemotional Merry Christams I was expecting. When the kids come running to me I noticed one had a runny nose, the wife said I had to spend 150 dollars on her med. I did not make a comment. I talked to the girls and then asked the wife what time she wanted them back.
We got to the car and I gave the girls Mommys and Father in laws gift, Victorias Secret Lotion and gift card to Home Dep. I waited at the car, 2 minutes later they girls came outside with their heads hung low. The said Mommy told me she didnt want them to take them back and give her the money. I took the gifts and walked them to the door. I told the wife this was from the kids
and Just wished her a Merry Christmas. She told me she wanted Money and didnt want tthe gifts, I sat them inside the house and told her to take them to Goodwill if she did not want them and left. the kids age 8 and 5 were heart broken and asked why mommy did not want the gifts. I told them Mommy was upset and she will be alright later. Th wife called later and asked me to bring them back at 7 instead of 6 like she had first said, I had no problem with that. I dropped off the kids and the gifts and stuck out my hand to shake hers, she just looked and me
I told her to smile everything will be ok, and asked her to smile, just a blank stare. I just smiled and said bye.
everything sound ok?

Steve, I am so sorry it went down like that, but you handled it exceptionally well. How very cold and callous of her. Just keep on playing it cool and hopefully she will thaw out. She really needs to stir up a fight with you in order to justify her affair and you are not helping her at all. Its pretty hard to demonize someone who acts as nice as you so hang in there, ok? It will take time, but this is the best way.

I know this is a sad day for you, Steve, but please try and put it out of your mind as best you can and enjoy your Christmas! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks, its hard to keep this up but I will. The kids called and said they got a playstation, air hockey table, all kinds of dolls, more skates
gusee who bought all this ? Wife always tells me she has no money.

I read this whole dang thread, and just an observation, but I think your wife's EN's are as follows:

1. Conversation
2. Financial Support
3. Domestic Support

Obviously she won't allow you to meet her "conversation" EN, because she's in the FOG and needs to be mean to you in order to justify her Affair. So no convo.

But, if you're in Plan A, I'd suggest not withdrawing any of the support $$ you are currently giving her. I wouldn't go over board with giving her more than she needs, but I would continue to provide her with essentials. I also liked the suggestion of giving her access back to her shop at the house. Maybe something to think about.

Don't get me wrong GBLOGBD, you need to continue to protect yourself legally (financial, child custody, etc.) with an attorney. This is VERY important.

BTW: Love the movie Shawshank Redemption, it's one of my favs.

Lv,
Jo

I have offered to let her back in the shop, she says No!, I have not cut off the money, I give her what she asked for when she moved out, now everytime I turn around she wants more, she eats out with the kids at least twice a week. The kids order wine for her when they go out. She buys new clothes ALL the time. She has no bills I pay for the car, insurance etc, she lives with her father She has not mentioned the D papers.
she lied about teh amount of damage to the car.
I dont mention none of this to her. Just agree
and tell her when I will have the kids home.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
I have offered to let her back in the shop, she says No!, I have not cut off the money, I give her what she asked for when she moved out, now everytime I turn around she wants more, she eats out with the kids at least twice a week. The kids order wine for her when they go out. She buys new clothes ALL the time. She has no bills I pay for the car, insurance etc, she lives with her father <hr /></blockquote>Well then, "IF" you are required to go to Plan B, all those amenities will disappear and she will be GBLOGBD-needless, meaning those needs will no longer be met by you, and more than likely will not continued to be met by OM either. A wake-up call for your wife I would say.

You're doing good GBLOGBD, this is a very tough situation at best. But you have made progress in your Plan A efforts. Continue on Plan A but be careful not to become a doormat.

I'll bump up a thread that was written by a MB member that will help you understand what Plan A (and Plan B) is really all about, but you have to promise to READ it, k?

Best,
Jo

I will try anything at this point, what have I got to loose, My wife left with the kids.
My kids will always be my kids, not so sure about my wife.

Steve:

I, 2, think you did remarkably well, considering.

Keep it up, an have a good Christmas!

best regards,
-ol' 2long

ok, Christmas I call and tell my kids I will pick them up at 10:00 that we are going on a trip. The wife has them call and asks me to pick them up at 11:00, I tell them no. I arive to pick the kids up at 10:10. The wife complains that I could not pick them up at 11 like she asked, she then says but 10:30 is fine, I ignore this, I know she has been sick so I asked how she was. She just stood there shaking her head saying how can you be so mean?, I just smile and tell the wife I will have them back Sun Night, she asks me to have the kids call, I ask her what time she wants them to call, I make sure they call at the exact time last night. She asked what we done, I could tell by the answers the kids were giving. The wife is telling me about how much money she spends on Med for the kids, the med has Complimentary sample on each bottle, I know she got samples from the Dr but told me she spent 150.00. Do I ask her about this ? when Do I tell her I know 100% that she had an affair or do I ?

You are such the gentleman in all this, gl.

If it were me, I would tell her nicely that I know she has had or is having an affair and let her know that it is hurting you VERY badly. I wouldn't tell her in person, but that's just me. I would write her and tell her. But how can you expose the affair if she does not even know you know about it?

The OM's mother has said she knows about the affair and that my wife will not be welcomed in her house if things continue the way they are, my wife has to know i know, I have not come out and told her, early on I asked but of course she said no, the OM is now telling people " we are just friends" when asked about my wife.

Hi Steve, just tell her to give you the bill and you will pay half of the medicine cost. She can pay the other half. But don't pay anything without the bill.

And of course you should tell her you know she is having an affair. There is no reason to withhold it. I would just be careful about getting into a fight with her about it. Be firm and straightforward and let her know that you know she is having an affair with the OM. As far as "proof",[a common nutty request from a guilty WS] you don't need to prove what she already knows.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 The OM's mother has said she knows about the affair and that my wife will not be welcomed in her house if things continue the way they are, my wife has to know i know, I have not come out and told her, early on I asked but of course she said no, the OM is now telling people " we are just friends" when asked about my wife. <hr /></blockquote>Have you told her that OM's mother knows about their affair?

No, I have not told her any proof i have about the affair, just I know he has bought you cell phones, checking account etc, she keeps telling me her dad done it all, if her dad done it why would she have her checking account sent to his business office

I was talking to the girls age 9 and 6. the oldest told me the wife has told her we are living in 2 houses because Mommy and Daddy argue, she told them various other things as well, she told them when everything is done between Daddy and I we can see OM again. I explained to the kids that the OM was wanting to take Daddys place and be Mommys boyfriend.
they said they want Mommy to come home. I told them to be big girls and not to give up hope.
Was I wrong in theis, I will probably go talk to OM's Mother whom I know well and talk to her.

You know, Steve, I think it is terrible that your W is telling these girls this stuff. I would mention it to your wife and tell her how upsetting and how VERY inappropriate it is. Just be calm, civil and respectful but...........FIRM.

Don't let her bait you into a fight either.

It is bad enough that their family is torn apart without bringing in 3rd parties. Let them get used to their family being torn apart before she starts foisting a new stud on them. Kids can better handle one trauma at a time.

I would suggest just telling the kids that you are doing everything you can to get Mom and Dad back together and leave it at that. Don't even mention her new stud.

the kids know the OM and I were best friends.
They know I dont care for him very much and when they see a pictire of him they cover it up. I am going to stop by his mothers house and talk with her. I just took the kids back and the wife just opened the door and let them in, I set their stuff in and told them bye, she never said a word. The kids also told me the wife told them not to take me to her room again, this is after I saw the Christmas stockings for the OM's kids. I have not mentioned them, I also did not comment on the car, she just got it back.

when my wife asks if I have talked to OM's wife what do I tell her. I have not talked to her yet.
right now I donot anwser the question.
also read also, please read above post.

Contact the OMW. If your W asks, if you tell her anything, tell her tha you will not support her lie, and you won't let the OM lie 2 his W. She will be mad because you will be blowing her secrecy. Goes with the territory.

-ol' 2long

The OM has left his wife back in March, Divorce is pending next month. My wife hates her with a passion. Looks like OM lied to his wife about my wife and the other way around so they could not compare notes. He also made sure we/they never wound up at the same functions.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 when my wife asks if I have talked to OM's wife what do I tell her. I have not talked to her yet.
right now I donot anwser the question.
also read also, please read above post. <hr /></blockquote>If you have talked to the OMW and your wife asks, tell her yes. If you haven't, tell her no. If she asks what you were talking about, tell her that is your business. You are not the one who has something to hide here, Steve. There is no reason you shouldn't talk to the OMW about your w's affair and there is no reason you should hide it.

Here is something else, the last 4 or 5 times I have had the kids the wife asks when I will have them home. I tell her 5:30 6:00. she then says fine. But 1 -2 hours before I am to bring them back she will call and ask me to bring them back an hour or 2 later. I always say fine, she then says if you have to bring them back drop them off next door. I dont even know the person next door. I take them back the hr or 2 later like she asks and dont say a word.

ok, Do I pay the car insurance and the tags for the car AND give her the money I have been. Or should I just give her the renewal notice. ?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 ok, Do I pay the car insurance and the tags for the car AND give her the money I have been. Or should I just give her the renewal notice. ? <hr /></blockquote>This is a tough one. You can do what I have done, and basically pay everything, or you can be hard-nosed. It all depends on your personal situation and your needs. I decided to basically take the high road because I have four children and I want them properly looked after. I have probably erred on the part of going too much and sooner or later the money supply will start drying up for my wife. Until then, precedent and lawyers be damned, I keep paying most of everything.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 ok, Do I pay the car insurance and the tags for the car AND give her the money I have been. Or should I just give her the renewal notice. ? <hr /></blockquote>Steve, just give her the renewal notice and let her handle it.

what is going on, I buy the kids some fireworks and call to tell them I will bring them over so they can shoot them. My wife call minutes later telling me not to bring them over becuase I did not ask her. I told her I bought them for the kids since they wanted tehm, Wife said to keep them with me and shoot them next time I have the kids. I seems like she is kinds doing a Plan B on me, she never calls, asks me anything, or even says thanks for the money I give her, At
least a while back she would call to complain.
whats up ?

Ok, The kids called and talked to me, the wife was telling them things to to tell me like, "tell daddy to buy you some clothes, Im not packing any more clothes for you" I asked my daughter to put Mommy on the phone. I calmy told my wife I would like it if she spoke to me about these type of things, she then went into, your only giving me XX dollars and you need to buy them clothes...you havent given me money yet, I told her I would get her some money asap.
When I hung up I went to where she is staying and brought her a check, she then told me her lawyer was going to make a fool of me, that she was going to have me kicked out of the house and was going to try and keep the kids from me as much as she could, I calmly told her if thats what she wanted there was nothing I could do.
She then told me she was still upset about
all the things I have done in the past, I told her I let her down emotionaly during our marriage, she said that right that she will never forgive me, she has not gotten over the death of her mother, All I told her was I understand how she felt and I understand, she told me she had a great lawyer and I better get one, I told her I was not going to get an attorney, I asked if she had filed for the D and
she beat around the bush and would never tell me she did. She denied seeing the OM and said they
were never more than friends, I never said a word. She then talked about a DR. that asked her out then started back telling me all the things that I done wrong, The main things she said were I let her down when she was sick, she also kept bringing up the conversations I have had with her friends telling them I did ot know why she left. She just kept telling me it is over, and I will need a lawyer, she then told me how she tried to be fair by wanting to give me everything
house furniture etc. now she says she wants it all. I know this is from talking to her attorney.
what does this sound like ?

Steve, it all sounds like more angry talk designed to bait you into a fight. She needs to get you mad so she can justify her affair. When she starts going off like that, you might just excuse yourself by saying "I'm sorry you feel so bad today, please call me when you feel better" and leave. It does no good to sit there and just listen to that nonsense.

Can you get into counseling with Harleys? I think he would be a huge help in your situation.

Am I graping at straws or, does it seems as though my wife is having second toughts or really dosent want this since she cant or wont tell me she has filed. Could it be she has been pressured in to doing it ? any thoughts.

Also, should I get counseling alone or see if my wife will do it also. I think the chances of that are none at best.

Steve, your W isnt ready for any counseling. But you could benefit GREATLY from some guidance from the Harleys. They are PROs at this and could maybe guide you into breaking the ice with your wife and making some headway. It would be WELL WORTH your money. They are not the kinds of counselors where you just sit around and stare at each other, they are proactive and always give very good guidance and tips.

Who knows what is on your W's mind? I sure don't. I think she likes to make threats in order to bait you into fights and wonder if she means much that she says.

Got home from work and found the Christmas gifts
I got my wife from the kids at the back door, Christmas Eve she told our daughters she did not want them. I took them to her and told her they were from the girls. Today there at the back door. Let it slide or ?

found the Christmas gifts
I got my wife from the kids at the back door, Christmas Eve she told our daughters she did not want them. I took them to her and told her they were from the girls. Today there at the back door. Let it slide or ?
She had them twice and gave them back twice.
Can you say, LoveBusster" to keep doing something which she doesn't want?

Steve:

Can you answer Mel's 2uestion?

Would you consider counselling with the Harleys? I, 2, agree that it would help you a great deal.

Let your W waste her money on a lawyer if she wants 2. Lawyers are good at getting other people 2 give them money. In the case of DVing, it's sad that their objective is the money, not repairing peoples' lives. A GOOD counselor will not only work 2ward the goal of putting your shattered self back 2gether, but they will try 2 do so in an expedient fashion, so as NOT 2 waste your valuable finances in the process. The Harleys (or Cerri) are the best. Why not get with a program and quit this flopping around, always trying 2 2nd guess what your W is thinking when she does the s2pid things she does?

Yeah, sure she's probably having doubts about what she's doing, and maybe she IS trying 2 avoid taking responsibility for the mess she's in, but you'll get nowhere fast by always trying 2 fathom the unfathomable. It won't make sense because it can't make sense. Let her take responsibility for her fu2re. Take responsibility for yours.

best,
-ol' 2long

Hey Steve what's the latest? Are you still here?

Got served the D papers yesterday, she wants to have me removed from the house even though she has been gone for the past 6 months. 50% of my 401K, sole custody of the kids and child support. This is WRONG. First trial date is set for April 14th. I gota a lot of stuff to get to the attorneys office.

This is scary!

I just spoke to an attorney here in my office. She could file anything she wants but that does not mean the courts will agree. Don't allow this to get to you.

What are the chances I will get the boot, April will be alsmost 1 year she has been gone, then got to court and have to move out because she wants back in. Whats up with that. I have no probles paying the child support even though I think its too much, but thats that law. I do object to giving her 1/2 of the 401k and furnishings. She had a key to the house for 1 month, all she took was her clothes, booze that the OM had purchased and the kids tv, vcr's and tv stands. SHE WALKED OUT ON EVERYTHING else, said she didnt want it. now she wants it all.

Steve, I don't know what the chances of her getting everything are, but I hope you get an attorney right away. Can you hire a P.I. to get the goods on her affair?

They are very secretive now,I have a lot of evidence, cell phones, him taking her out to eat.
car wash, her checking account being sent to his business.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 They are very secretive now,I have a lot of evidence, cell phones, him taking her out to eat.
car wash, her checking account being sent to his business. <hr /></blockquote>This is evidence you can take to court?

I spoke to an attorney today and he really didnt give me the warm and fuzzy, sure I can take this to court, also the OM wife said I can use all of the evidence she has as well.

Steve:

Dag nabbit, CALL THE HARLEYS!

Having said that, it wasn't s2pid 2 call an attorney and protect yourself. But don't just use the attorney. If you're done with the M, then you're done, but you don't sound ready for DV. You need 2 learn what your options are right now. Most DV claims I've heard about here, the WS will ask for everything in the hopes that they'll do better than break even, and you should counterfile (if you're not going 2 delay this as long as you can) by asking for everything yourself. But 50/50 is the right thing 2 do.

-ol' 2long

I do plan on taking as long as I can, I also plan to counterclaim on the grounds of adultry.
I dont think she should get anything, she left, walked out, quit, gaveup what ever you want to call it. never gave me a chance, betrayed me, her kids and everyone that knows us. As far a talking to the Harleys, I would love to but now I dont have a spare 185.00 dollars, I continue to pay her for the kids and keep the household.
SHe is living high on the hog, no rent or bills
gets money from me, her father and the OM. Then to make herself fell better she shops and nags at me.

Her chances of getting everything is darn near nill. She moved out of your house. The only way she stands a chance of having you moved out of your house is if she proves domestic violence, other than that, she does not stand a chance. But, on the other hand, if you have these documents that you say you have and you have only one eyewitness of seeing the two together, she stands a much greater chance of losing everything.

What you can do is file a countersuit for sole custody (arrange to have the children with you. home is home and make it clear that the children are home with you) and for child support. You do not have to file for divorce to get these things. In the brief you'll state (or your attorney) that your wife is involved in an affair, she has moved out of the house, and as a result you are filing for sole custody for the betterment of the children. Make a point and say in the brief that you are NOT filing for divorce at this time because you love your wife dearly, you wish your wife to turn from the affair and come home (include all supporting documents that prove the affair). You will stand a very, VERY good chance of winning...if her affair lasts that long. It will take about 6 to 12 months for there to be a trial, but you can get temp. custody and arrange for child support.

The wife has filed for Divorce, she has the kids.
She knows I dont want a Divorce, she tells everybody its over, done. I do have some good
proof, like cell records where they called each other 10 - 20 times a day. The OM's wife said the
OM's mother told her that OM admitted to an affiar. OMs Mom did not mention a name but did say my wife would never be welcome in her home?
My wife is scheduled for a deposition in their Divorce case on Feb 4th. They have mediation scheduled for Jan 26th. I hope they dont settle.
so the wife has to go through deposition.

Please read the last post as well,

Questions about all this Plan A stuff, for the last 10 weeks I have been a role model, when the wife tells me Im a dead beat, I tell her Sorry you feel that way I will help you anyway I can, all she wants is more money. I do not give extra money. She wanted me to buy kids clothes when they stay with me I did on and on. I donot argue
with her, she has tried to get me to comment, returning the Christmas gifts and leaving them on the back door, leaving notes, telling me her attorney is going to take everything from me,
not inviting me to our kids Birthday party. I
never say a word.

She has told me she hates me being nice, tells me to " act normal" and not be nice. I smile at her and she tells me to stop laughing at her.
I called the other day for the kids, she picked up the phone and said there not here and hung up.
I called back and said I will try later what time would you like, all she said was 7:30 and hung up.

I called last night and she had the kids tell me
Mommy needs 500.00 to get me tested for Allergies. I need to go to the Doctor.The child is 5 years old.

If the wife hates all the nice stuff and the sorry you feel that way what else do I do. She does not call and really dosent care to talk to me, she is not at her parents when I bring the kids back on Sunday, it has been this way the last several times.

All I ever hear is Im gonna @%@#$@##@#%&*^()(
and to tell you all the truth Im ready to
tell her goodbye. I still hold out hope.

I did tell her the other night I was 1000% sure she had an affair. I spoke to OM brother who I have also been friends with and he told me he had no idea why his brotherdone what he did to me. when I asked him directly he said he did not want to get in the middle of this.

I then asked him how long it has been going on and he said he would not answer that either.

I asked him what would happen if I asked their mother and he said that would really clear things up. I told his brother, tell your brother to ride over and lets drink a beer together if
he has not done anything wrong, his brother told me he didnt think his brother would come over.

I dont have the 185.00 for the Harleys so please dont tell me to call them. I need the money for an attorney later today.

Steve, she is still trying to bait you into a fight in order to justify her affair. You don't have to oblige her by giving her what she wants. You should stand firm and not let her run over you, but you also should not respond to her silly baiting comments. See what I mean?

As far as your children asking for money on her behalf, I would just tell the child to have her mother talk to you. Then IGNORE the subject entirely. If she needs the money, she can bring it up herself and you can consider it.

Please don't get discouraged, Steve. There is nothing you CAN DO to change her attitude right now. She will eventually get tired of being so mean when sees it gets her nowhere.

Has her affair been exposed to everyone in her family and HIS? I think you told me it had. What did you BIL mean when he said you should talk to his M? Are you going to speak to her?

The OM brother more or less said that the OM's Mother knows that my wife and EX best Friend had an affair. Ex best friend told his mother the truth. I have not talked to his mother. When I speak with the kids and they ask about money I tell them we talk about us not other things. they say fine. The wife got 2 supoena's, 1 for a deposition and 1 for the Divorce case. This may have something to do with the reason she stays so mad.
I really want to say screw it all and jump ship. I will always be there for my kids. they will always be my kids. Where did/does all the
hate come from ? the wife has started calling my friends(funny she said I didnt have any)telling them she would supoena them in our case, trying to cause trouble she even told me my brother was going to get involved it was up to her. ha ha ha ha. now this is funny!!!!!

I talked to an attorney today and it sounded like I have a very strong case.

You should definitely counter-sue on the basis of adultery and claim everything for yourself. Try to get some photographic evidence from a P.I. of them together.

My biggest question is, is Alabama a "no-fault" divorce state? I went through my A in Florida which is a "no-fault" divorce state and the attorney basically told me it doesn't really matter what broke up the marriage. The court just looks at it from strictly a business perspective and divides up the assets accordingly.

Alabama is NOT a "no-fault" only divorce state. Here's a link:

http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/...atID/995EE405-21AA-4B4A-97CBABD905A37E1B

If I read this right, you have to be separated for 2 years for a no-fault divorce, otherwise there must be grounds for divorce. This should be good for you, especially if you have undisputable evidence of her affair. Hire an investigator to get some photos of them but don't tell anyone you are doing this or else they might go into hiding.

I would also file a seperate lawsuit against the OM for emotional pain and distress and for breaking up your marriage.

[ January 22, 2004, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Layer3 ]

I just got the school records, on the emergency contact form the wife lists the cell phone the om
had been paying for. My attorney really liked this, he said it looks like she listed him even though she carried the phone, if she admits that she carried the phone then it looks bad as well either way, also she did not even list me as a contact on the forms!!!! shes gotta explain this.

Should I go for the throat ?

Do you guys really think there is a chance?

I do love her deeply and care for her, I have to look out for myself, she surely will not pull any punchs.

Steve,

I have been following your deal but unable to weigh in due to my hectic situation. I will try to do so tomorrowthough. The legal battle is something I am well aware of...and I believe that many of the things I did to "pen her in" helped lead her out of the fog.

More tomorrow.

In His arms.

Hey Steve, I'm definitely no expert but in my opinion I think it may be time for you to start thinking about moving on. You can't hang out in limbo forever. I would go for everything you can get in court but don't let them find out about your intentions. In my case in Florida, which is a "no fault" state the court doesn't care about who did what. They just divide assets based on purely financial reasons. But Alabama is a little more old-fashioned and conservative so they can find fault on one side or the other which may result in more gain for you. You really need evidence, especially if you can get photographic evidence of them together. Since you've already got the D papers you should get ready for this. And don't give them any ammo against you (don't go out on any dates) because they can twist that to say you were the one having the affair. You may be able to get custody claiming she is unfit due to her affairs and I'd also sue the OM for breaking up your marriage.

I have thought about this, I am moving on even though I really love my wife and would like her back in my life. Everyone tells me I'm crazy but it is my decision only!!!

Right now I am in the circle of life, I have reduced my circle so that the down time is small.

I have started moving on an up So I am going to increase my circle so that I will be ontop longer. Think about it!!

Make no mistake, I will NEVER give up. when someone gives up EVERY chance they have of
getting to the top is gone. Thats not my cup of tea.

I'm not going on any dates, been out with friends, just to hang out. 40 year young guys
dont really want to do the bar thing all over.

I still hold out hope, but not getting my hopes up.

read above post as well, do you ned to send plan b letter after rec'ing Divorce papers ?

Wife never calls, just talks in the background when I am talking to kids, only time She even hears my voice is when she answers the phone
and I ask to speak with the kids.

Looks like there is no stopping this Train I'm on
consider your self lucky if you wife talks or anything. I never got a chance from the day she left.

I don't know Steve. I went through my A 3 years ago and didn't know about this web site until recently. However I'm still feeling the after-effects and I never got anything other than denials from my wife that anything was going on. I'm not sure what the rules are and I didn't do any Plan A/B thing. But from reading your story it appears this has been going on for a LONG time and personally I think it's time for you to let go. I think you can come out on top in court if you have evidence. Don't worry about the bar scene, start checking out some of the online dating sites, there are a lot of women out there. The best way to get over an old relationship is to start a new one but don't do it until after the divorce is final.

Layer, he is using Marriage Builders principles in his marriage right now in the hope of eventually restoring his marriage. We have all seen worse cases than his result in happy endings. It's way to early for him to give up hope. He's not even to Plan B yet.

The worst thing in the world he could do right now is date other women. First off, he is married and secondly, that would only complicate and impede ANY CHANCE of reconciliation. He has a long way to go before he is recovered enough from this trauma to be available to date others.

I know Melody but in his case divorce papers have already been filed. He probably has a court date and he needs to think about protecting his self financially. Do you still continue MB principles after the divorce is final?? At this point he needs to counter file within a certain number of days (I think like 15, depends on the state) or else if he doesn't respond to the court then the terms by which she filed are accepted by default. So she could have asked for the house, all property, sole custody, everything and unless he counter files that's what is going to happen.

I did not suggest that he go out and date other women. He seemed kind of depressed about being 40 and not into the "bar scene" anymore and not confident about meeting someone else. I just suggested the dating web sites for AFTER the divorce is final as a way to meet women. You can hold out hope until the very end and that's great but right now he has to protect himself legally.

[ January 23, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Layer3 ]

Layer, absolutely he needs to protect himself legally and he is doing that. There is nothing in Plan A or B that precludes him from doing that or counterfiling. She filed for divorce but that changes nothing as far as his plan goes.

ok, Im 40 NO BIG DEAL, I will have no problem meeting anyone. This is not what I want.

I Just found out the OM admitted he had an affair with my wife in his deposition today.
His Divorce is final.

My wife did have an affiar with my ex best friend of 20 years, I have been with my wife 17years.

I dont know how long it has been going on.

What do I say to my wife now!!!

Steve, I wonder why he did that? Did his XW tell you he did? I would certainly bring it up to her. Tell her that you know about her affair and that OM admitted it in his divorce proceedings. Just don't let her bait you into a fight, but let her know that you do know the truth and can now understand her behavior.

Yes Om's wife told me he admitted to the affair in Mediation today. He was very mad but had to admit to it with all of the evidence she had. The OM admitted to it to keep my wife out of a deposition that was scheduled for next week.

Do I tell my wife I love her and want to try and work this out.

OM's wife said OM did not want everyone to know.

Please give me some advice, I think its now or never.

I also now am at the point is this marriage workable, it looks doomed if she filed for D or could she have been pushed by OM during this past time. When do I ask how long this has been going on etc

Wow! Do you have a court date Steve? You are definitely in a good position legally if he admitted to the affair!! File a counter suit, tell them you want everything, house, kids, dog, all property, etc. Claim that your wife is an unfit mother because of the affair and demand full custody of your kids and child support payments from her.

File a separate lawsuit against the other man seeking damages for emotional pain and distress and for breaking up your marriage. Sue for all the associated legal fees as well so he has to pay the court costs. If like you say in your story he paid for your wife to get lasik eye surgery and that other expensive stuff he's probably got money and assets.

So if the OM's divorce is final, then your wife may feel additional pressure and incentive to finalize your divorce. She may see the "light at the end of the tunnel" now that the OM is divorced and it may be even harder for her to go back.

Keep holding out hope that your wife will change her mind if you want but after all this time you need to face the possible reality that she isn't coming back. Maybe you taking strong legal actions will snap her out of the "fog". Good luck..keep us posted.

[ January 24, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Layer3 ]

My wife said her father paid for the surgery, I really dont think that is the case, I realy think it was the OM. I have and do think about it being over. The OMs ex wife has said she will testify for me and give me all of her evidence,
cell records credit card stuff etc. The OM works for himself and hides a lot of money.
Construction jobs for cash etc.

what do I say to the wife, I want to try and make it work.

Do you have a court date for your divorce? I don't know what you should say. Call her up, ask her if she's happy about the way things are turning out. Tell her you heard that the OM admitted, IN COURT, that he had an affair.

Ask her if she wants to meet somewhere and ask her if she can say face-to-face that this is what she wants to do and let her know that she could still come back and it's not too late. "Has this gone far enough yet? Are we going to make this divorce final?". Those are the kind of questions I would ask...

yes the court date is set for April 14th, Attorney said it will delayed about 6months.

She still has not gotten the inorogitories?

Should i wait to try and speak with her?

I don't know Steve. My A was 3 years ago and I did not know about this web site. My situation was a lot different than yours. I did not do any plan A/B thing and I'm not an expert on them. She did not acutally leave me she just kept sneaking around and denying anything was going on. It went on for months, I don't think the guy had any intention of trying to steal her away, they were just enjoying themselves at my expense. My marriage survived, basically by me telling her she had to get out because I was getting transferred out of state (I'm military) and I didn't want her coming with me. At first I was a wimpering, crying fool begging her to stop and come back but when the time came for me to leave I was ready to throw her out. A few weeks before the movers were scheduled to come she came and said she would "stay with me" and I just said ok. Things are good now, we survived and she says she wants to "forget the past" but when I ask for details of what past we're supposed to forget she just shuts up. So I've just let it go and things are going well but she knows if anything like that ever happens again she'll find her stuff on the street. So I didn't really follow the plans and advice they are giving here but my situation was different than yours. I don't really know what to tell you at this point. I think my wife came back to me when she saw I had the strength to go on without her and I could start over and didn't need her anymore. I really was ready and somewhat looking forward to being single again but I did hold out hope that she would change her mind at the last minute and she did. But this is different in your case since she has already left and filed the papers.

I guess Im dealing with when to tell her I know he admitted it. His ex said she would testify if/when we go to court. I dont think she has told her father either. but damn he has to have some idea with all the money that has been pouring in. Another thing the neighbor is very good friends with my wife, she wont speak to me, I tried talking to her just to let her know i
hold no hard feelings towards her, she stood in the yard and listened to conversations I had then told my wife about them.

At this late stage I would tell her now. If you can get her to talk to you and ask her if she's happy at the way things are turning out and just mention, matter of factly, that you heard the OM admitted in his divorce case that he had an affair with her.

If you want to be bold and follow my example, also say that even though you're sad and this isn't what you wanted, you are looking forward to getting this over with since she appears to have made up her mind. But just leave the hint that the door is still open and she can change her mind but you just don't feel like she will. This is just me talking and I don't know if it agrees with the MB principles here or not.

What do you all think of me talking to OM's mother. I have been told by his Ex the mother knows everything? would this kill all chances of
wife and I talking ?

Or do I keep quite and wait till court date and tell her, OM and wife had to sign papers not to talk about each other.

This is after he has told everyone lies about his ex and myself. I know he told his mom I was abusive etc.
Big fat lie.

Steve, I would tell as many as possible but right now I wouldn't tell the OM's mother. I would leave that up to the OMW. And the reason WHY is because your W may view it as an attack on HIM, which would push them together. It doesn't necessarily serve your purpose.

On the other hand, I would absolutely call her father and let him know. Tell him that you know your W is telling lies about abuse. Anyone else in her family you can tell?

I would then call her up and just let her know that you know about the affair and that OM has admitted it in court. Don't challenge, don't let her bait you into a fight. Just let her know that you know and your attorney knows and leave it at that.

I hope Mortarman comes over and gives you some tips on how to squeeze her in the divorce issue.

the OM's mother does know, he admitted it to her. The OM's wife told me. The oms wife also told me he admitted it in court mediation.

I will not let her bait me, I just really dont know what to say to her. I know shes mad, defensive and dosent really know what she wants. the last thing I want to do now is close any doors.

Please have mortman or who ever else you can think of give me some clues, tips or whatever.

If my wife would talk to me I know without a doubt she would realize I love her more than any affair could seperate. I know most people who know us thhought I would be the one doing this.

My track record speaks for itself, I have never cheated. 1000000000000% faithful.

I just dropped the kids off, I asked the wife how she was doing, she said fine I asked if she was ok and she said yes, I the told her I was told the OM admitted to the affair in his mediation. She blew her stack, telling me I was crazy, she has supoenaed everyone, including my own parents. She denied the affair and told me
I was the sole reason she left, I asked about the cell phone and she said the OM did buy her a cell phone. She then told me her father has given her ALL the money. She said she got all of the inorogotories from my attorney and was very mad about having to Answer them all.
She saw my Sister in law at the grocery store and
ignored her, did not even wave just had a very mean look on her face.

I now have my doubts about this Marriage Builder stuff. I have been so nice, not saying a word
telling her I understand etc. nothing has even come within 100 miles of working. is this normal
or is she just that pissed off ?

Steve, I am sorry it is going so badly, but I assure you that fighting with her is not the answer. It only emboldens her and helps her rationalize her affair. What do you think you should be doing that would be more effective?

Steve, you need to start thinking with a clear mind and come to the realization that she may not be coming back to you. There's no guarantee on this MB stuff. Her reaction when you told her you knew the OM admitted to the affair in court tells me she is planning to try and put all the blame on you and take everything she can from you. Since he has money they probably have a good lawyer who is going to try and take it all. If you show in court she had the affair that puts her at fault and seriously damages their case. Get photographic evidence of them ASAP!

I have all the evidence the OM's wife had, she will even testify for me. I have accecpted the fact she may not and probably will not be back.
I was told to tell her but damn, who the hell knew she would act like that. I dont care how much money he has, he was busted in his divorce
my wife was the person he had tha affair with.

I feel well about my case, I dont see how she can get much more than child support which i dont think she deserves since she left and had an affair.

Since she denies the affair do I tell her father ?

That's what I mean. If you want custody of the kdis then tell that to the court and then demand child support from her. He has money so their lawyer will be pulling out all the stops to try and put the blame on you. That's why I'm saying get some photographic evidence, even if the OM admitted the affair in his case, their high-priced lawyer may pull some kind of stunt to not allow it in your case.

I don't know why you would tell your wife's father. What are you trying to accomplish? To get your wife to admit to the affair? My wife never admitted to hers, even 3 years later if I bring it up she avoids the issue. Some women just won't admit it even in the face of overwhelming evidence. They just can't say it. Parents only want their children to be happy and he would probably support her even if she was wrong. She could have told him she just isn't happy anymore and wants to change.

her father never took up for her the 14 years we were married when her mother called her a whore and told her she was never welcome in her house. They never came to the kids birthday parties. seenthe kids 3 or 4 times a year when the wife and her mother were not fighting. the father never took up for his ONLY daughter.

What do I want. Justice, she has told the neighbors i am insan/crazy. seems funny that when they need something or help doing something they wind up in my yard.

Since I have been done wrong/hurt. I guess I really want to see her hurt. i love her still to this day i would take her back, I can forgive her, him NEVER. Custody in Alabama is nearly
impossible to get. I have one of the top
attorneys in the state. everyone I have asked
tells me my attorney is far and away better than
hers. I had the chance to get her attorney and passed. I dont need to get pictures, I have OMs ex that will testfy, his credit card recipts, cell records emergency contact records for my kids with his phone number on them signed by the wife.......I have been told my 401k is now safe and no alimony for her, and the chances of her getting the house are close to zero.

What do I want, a damn chance like everyone else got.

Steve:

"I now have my doubts about this Marriage Builder stuff. I have been so nice, not saying a word
telling her I understand etc. nothing has even come within 100 miles of working. is this normal
or is she just that pissed off ? "

This is NORMAL, though this si2ation may be a bit more "dramatic" than the average.

Steve, her world is falling apart, and she's blowing up at YOU for it. It's falling apart because your application of MB techniques IS working. But it is certainly true that MB can't "guarantee" a particular outcome. It is GREAT at restoring MOST marriages, even after divorce, but it isn't a certainty. I would almost go so far as 2 say it can guarantee recovery - in your case personal recovery.

Back a page or so ago, I think you and Layer were talking about "letting go" and moving on. Well, they're not quite the same thing. Letting go is a healthy thing, and something you should do whether you recover your M or not. Let go of resentment, control, anger, assumptions, expectations. This is very different from "giving up", which unfor2nately a lot of people choose 2 do as well. Giving up does NOT help you recover as an individual, so you run the very real risk of having the same problems that went unadressed in THIS marriage cropping up in the next one. Really, concepts of "letting go" and "giving up" should not be directly associated with "moving on." Moving on may be what you end up DOING, but letting go is a healthy thing you should be doing now. Giving up is something you should NOT do, and what MB will help you prevent.

At the same time, you certainly need 2 protect yourself and your kids financially from your W's erratic behavior right now. You are doing this for HER 2, but she can't see it.

When Mortarman gets time, he'll give you some great advice about how 2 implement plan B. He's one of the greats.

best,
-ol' 2long

The only contact I now have with my wife is when I call for the kids and she picks up the phone. I say hi and ask to speak with the kids. That's all. She is in the back ground telling the kids to tell me things, like tell daddy I had to take you to the doctor and the med cost 150.00.
The she will say stuff like oh he dosent have money for that but he has money to buy himself clothes. I will only be able to fully let go when this is done and I can redecorate the house,
change things around, get her name off the checking account etc. I have been nice very nice.
I let her ramble on and do like you say, last night she told me her and her father now hate themselfs for asking and me being a paul bearer
at the mothers/wifes funeral. I just told her I was sorry they felt that way. That it nothing extra. once she denied the affair I told her I know he admitted it and asked her if she was going to tell me. she Denied it. She then told me she was going to need counseling when this was done, I asked her if we could go together and she said all she wants from me is a DIVORCE
and wants to take everything I have. She said she hopes I am homeless when this is over..

Steve:

again, it's the drama for her!

Pay for the medical bill if it's reasonable 2 do so. Don't argue about whether you need a new pair of boxers or not. We all do even2ally!

She's pissed because she's WRONG and she knows it.

Just don't play games with her.

Have you noticed that you're having more time 2 contemplate your own shortcomings when you dwell less on what she's doing? I hope so. I know I did. It's THEN that you can make leaps and bounds in personal growth!

-ol' 2long

I dont argue with her, but it get tough hearing all the time how sorry i am, am whats going to happen to me. She tells me to call the kids at 6:30 but is not there, The clothes she is talking about is a leather jacket. I did not have any jacket and bought it. I heard about this
for 3 weeks and she still brings it up. The other night I told the wife I understand I did not meet her Emotional needs, This is when she said she would need counseling now but more or less said she hated my guts. I did not argue with her. done just what she wanted. I then told her goodnight and left.

Steve:

And you're getting BETTER at it, though I'm sure you may not feel like you are. I know, again, that that's just how I felt for the longest time.

Keep it up!

-ol' 2long

The Om admitted the affair, he called his wife last night telling her I was a piece of Sh**.
I told his wife to tell him to call me with any comments about myself he may have. He will not call. Cant wait to get this over...when do I plan b and how do I do it with kids?

I'm ready to go for the throat....

one of the Kids school teacher told me yesterday at the school they would testify or write a letter for me about what a wonderful parent I was.

Steve:

I wouldn't seek 2 talk 2 the OM. He's pond scum, and you don't need 2 debate your qualities with pond scum.

plan B isn't about going for the throat. Plan D may be, but even it shouldn't be.

-ol' 2long

gblogbd: Hey, I have read your post. I'm sorry you are feeling the pain that is voiced in this site. I would like to address the child support issue with you. Child support is for the child or children not the spouse. You will always have those children even if you divorce your spouse. You will have to deal with visitation if awarded sole custody. Your child needs to be the TOP priority in this. You can go to counseling and get help for your pain. Your child on the other hand is a minor(under 18) and not well suited to deal with divorce of his/her parents. Your child will be have to sort though all the feelings you have plus more. The child will have feelings for what the BOTH of you do and did in this matter. For your childs' sake and mental health in future, do not make any ugly remarks about your spouse. You can tell them "We are having a marital problem and trying to work things out. We have hurt EACH other and it is hard to deal with these feelings. I love you and am sorry you have seen this pain. Do you want to talk with me about how YOU are feeling?" Your child will get to experience both sides of you and your spouse. They will see the love/hate relationship and will then be fearful that YOU will turn on them also. Pay your child support and always do for your own child. When this has past, either way, you will have to face your child and years later you will have set the EXAMPLE how to handle this crisis and others. Lets pray that you will have shown them the best example of unconditional love for them and their parent. Years later they will learn the meaning of 'unfaithful' but try not to teach them 'unforgiving' by your own standard. NOW more than ever, You must "Do as I do" not "do as I say not as I do". Please don't try to teach your spouse a LESSON and get the same one from yourself. Been there and done that and the kids never forget and forgiving is hard when you failed it the first time.....Peace

I do not talk bad about their mother, I tell them I hope Mommy comes home soon. They tell me all the time they want to stay with me. When it is time to take them back they call the wife ank ask if they can stay longer. when I talk to them on the phone we talk 30 min. when they talk to the wife they talk 5. I know the child support is for the kids, thats what it is intended for, my wife will not spend it on the kids. she has all new clothes, shoes, goes to get her nails done, tanning salon, out to eat ALL the time.
Once the money leaves my hands its not mine, but I see where its going, I dont have to like it.
One day she will see whats going on. The OM is in debt to his eyes. He will cut her off, drop her, he has a past record of this. I just hope she looks to me for help when its done.

Hey Steve, I have been thinking about your situation since last night and I wonder if you are not ready for Plan B. I think she is so committed to demonizing you that any decent actions on your part only seems to EMBOLDEN her and further infuriate her.

Plan A has been good in that that you have not been giving her any ammunution but I wonder if you would take the wind out of her sails if you cut off all contact? It would also protect you from her abuse as I see your love bank running in the red here.

With her, I think you need to cut off ALL contact and communicate only through an intermediary. Is there someone you can use who would help you with this? You could also set up stipulated visitation times and indicate in your Plan B letter that she is only to contact you in the event of an EMERGENCY. And if she does contact you otherwise, tell her to please refer to your PBL and end the call.

What do you think?

I dont know, when the kids call how will I know its them on the phone and not the wife if I answer it. When I call for them each night, what if she answers the phone. I dont think she would have a problem with this, she dosent make ANY effort to call or talk to me. Mainly just blabs in the back ground when I talk to the kids. Dosent even tell me about the report cards they got. I hear her all the time tell them to get off the phone when we are talking, I pick the girls up from school on Fridays and return them on Sundays. Are you talking about getting someone else to drop them off, another family member ? she hates all of my family including ny sister in law whom she was very close to.

Steve, you won't know if its the kids or her calling, but you still answer it and if its her, you politely ask her if this is an emergency. If its not, then you refer her to your PBL and end the call. FIRMLY ask her to respect your request for no contact.

You could still pick the kids up and drop them off without seeing her. She doensn't have to like the intermediary, but it would be preferable that it be someone who is not seen as threat. Who can you think of?

The idea of the PBL will be to end all contact, tell her you love her but you are moving on because you find yourself falling out of love, and arrange housekeeping issues. You should also give her a clear path to back to you IF she meets certain stipulations. By that, I mean you tell her that her affair has caused you a great deal of pain and that you would only consider discussing reconciliation once contact has ended with the OM.

You would designate an intermediary so that no more contact takes place. And tell her that she needs to send any messages through this intermediary and NOT through the girls. Tell her since the situation is hard on the girls that any messages sent through them will not be considered.

What do you think?

If you want to do it, I would look at other letters here and let us give you feedback on your letter. But whatever you do, Steve, please don't make it long, sappy and sentimental like some of the PB letters you see here. That will NOT WORK with your wife. She is emotionally detached so that would just push her in the wrong direction.

MEL, all this sounds good, but it almost like the final straw, is this right. I really dont like to get others involved, this BS about listing people we plan to call as witnesses in the divorce case is bad enough. If I decide to take the kids back and she come outside can I just ignore her. Not say anything to her or is
seeing her the same as contact?

Steve, no, it is NOT the final straw AT ALL! Plan B is almost always used as part of this process. There are no guarantees, of course, but the idea is that once you take control here and end contact, that she will miss you. It also sends the message to her that you are not going to tolerate her disrespect anymore and will be removing yourself from the situation.

I don't know if this will cause her to miss you, but it seems that any contact with you only emboldens her to demonize you even more. Plan A has not helped much in your case, except to stop giving her more ammunition to demonize you.

So, I am hoping that by ending contact, the demonization will cease to an extent that she starts thinking clearly again. And by showing her that you are no longer sitting on the sidelines hoping for crumb, you might wake her up a bit and make her realize that she no longer has you as a fallback.

If she comes out to car to talk to you, smile at her and tell her to please contact you through your intermediary. Just be a broken record until she gets the message.

Steve, see, right now she is in charge and you are sitting on the sidelines waiting for her mandates. You essentially are at the mercy of a crazy woman. With a Plan B letter, you take back control of the situation. You tell her how contact will be but you do it in a loving manner that gives her a PATH BACK to you.

Her affair with the OM is very likely to NOT LAST. What they have done to you and OMW, they will do to each other eventually. We just need to remove you from the scene so you are no longer the demon in the story. Let them start scrutinizing each other. We just want you to be ready to take her back when it all falls apart.

give me sample letter, I will try it.
I will post it here and let you read it first.
will she be able to use the letter against me in the divorce.
I am filling out all the questions as we speak.

Steve, do a search on this forum for some other letters. Here is an outline that ChrisCA-123 wrote that I liked:

1 – I love you.
2 – I apologize for the part I played in getting our marriage where it is now. (give one or two examples – ignoring her on anniversaries/birthdays or whatever.)
3 – You continued affair is causing me intense pain. I cannot have any contact with you until you end it.
4 – If you must contact me about kids, or your decision to end affair, then call (friend) and friend will get message to me.
5 - I love you and know we can work everything out if we both put forth the effort.

You could pattern your letter around that outline without being too mushy. But do a search for Plan B letters and you can read some of the others on this forum. Then when you are done, please post it so we can help you tweak it.

Update, I was talking to the kids tonight and asked about a field trip they were going on, My wife had our daughter ask if I would pay for the next trip. I heard her say" ask daddy if he has enough money to pay for the next trip". I told my daughter to tell me about her day and did not acknowledge the comment by my wife. I heard her ask several more time. I finally told my daughter this was adu;t talk and we were not going to talk about it.
I am going to do my best to write a letter in the am. I am getting together al of the info requested by the wifes attorney.

Good, I am glad you are going to work on the letter. And good job with your daughter.

Maybe you could tell her also that she needs to tell her mother to ask you DIRECTLY, that this is a subject for adults and NOT KIDS. Tell her that her mother should not be asking kids to ask you questions like this and train her to say to her mom: "dad says to ask him yourself." If you could train them to say that, she might get the message and stop using your kids to get to you. grrrrrrr

Do I need to give her a letter or just cut off all talks with her. I have stopped leaving voice
messages for the kids when I call. If its ok I will not speak to her at all. will this work or do I need to do the letter.

Steve:

if you're going 2 do plan B, you need 2 do it by the book, and that means read the sample plan B letters, post one of your own here, and get editorial comments before you give it 2 your W.

Do NOT try 2 do plan B without a plan B letter.

best,
-ol' 2long

I will post a letter tonight, how do I know if she will read it? most everything else she tears up?

Steve, the LETTER is the ENTIRE point! Please don't consider doing Plan B without sending the letter. It gives your reasons, explains your feelings and gives her a path back. Without that, it is destructive.

OK how is this for Plan B letter

Dear ******
First let me start by telling you I Love You.
I would also like to tell you I am truly sorry for my part in allowing our marrige to get to get to this point.
I now know how hurt you must have been the day you fell and hurt yourself and I came to the hospital to see you. I turned and walked away
without offering any support to my wife. This was not the way I should have acted.
The affair you have had during our marriage has caused me unbelivable pain. It is for this reason, I must end all contact with you until the affair ends. I am doing this so I can remain in love with you and hope to rebuild our family.

Should you ever need to contact me about our 2 beautiful daughters ****** and ******* or about your decision to end the affair please contact ******, ****** or ******* and have them to give me any messages you may have. Please do not send messages thru the kids, any messages sent thru
the kids will not be responded to.

Please call me for ANY emergency at ********
or ********* or ***********.

I still love you with all my heart and know you and I can overcome this regardless of what others say.

Love or what here?
S****

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
OK how is this for Plan B letter

Dear ******
First let me start by telling you I Love You.
I would also like to tell you I am truly sorry for my part in allowing our marrige to get to get to this point.

I now know how hurt you must have been the day you fell and hurt yourself and I came to the hospital to see you. I turned and walked away
without offering any support to my wife. This was not the way I should have acted.

The affair you are having has caused me unbelievable pain and is eroding what remaining love I have for you. It is for this reason, I must end all contact with you until the affair ends. I am doing this so[b] I can protect any remaining feelings I have for you.

Should you ever need to contact me about our 2 beautiful daughters ****** and ******* or about your decision to end the affair please contact ******, ****** or ******* and have them to give me any messages you may have. Please do not send messages thru the kids, any messages sent thru
the kids will not be responded to.

Please call me for ANY emergency at ********
or ********* or ***********.

I still love you with all my heart and know we can overcome this if we tried. With hard work, we can recapture the intense love we once had for another. Until then, I must remove myself from this situation.

All my love,
S**** <hr /></blockquote>I really like it! I made some minor changes, use them if you want. I like that you kept it short and didn't ruin it with too much sentimentality. I think that would sour her on the letter because she is so hostile and detached. Best keep it short and sweet without pouring too much heart into it since she may initially mock it.

I am not experienced in Plan B letters, so would you Plan B pro's please give Steve some feedback here?

[ February 03, 2004, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

Hi
In regards to you calling your children when they are at their mum's (and you are in plan B) If it is financially affordable could you not get a cell phone for your 9 year old & explain to her that this will only be used to comunicate with you etc. I don't know if she is responsible enough but just something for you to think about. May God bless your efforts.

Good luck Steve.

So a botched hospital visit caused the whole affair? I wouldn't mention any specific incident unless it was really significant. I would just say I'm sorry for all the mistakes I have recently made in our marriage that contributed to your unhappiness.

No the hospital thing is what she keeps bringing up.
Any one have Ideas on the letter.
My attorney is getting a statement from the OM's
ex wife's attorney that he admitted to the affair.
The wife had the kids ask last night if I was going to take them away from Mommy, I told them that was adult talk. They also said Mommy said were were getting a big house with lots of land and said we can get a horse. I told her that was nice and we would talk about that later.
I found out she just had a prescription filled for pain pills and sinus stuff.

Hi Steve,

Well, I just spent an hour and a half(with a few breaks) reading ALL the posts from day one of your story and what a story.

Your wife sounds like a particularly vindictive woman who has SERIOUS self esteem and self worth issues("boob job" and temper tantrums,LASIK eye surgery,manipulation,anger,shopping sprees,etc) not to mention my heart breaks for your children.It is so disgusting how she has manipulated them in this whole mess and they are definitely going to be scarred by all this.It is just awful.It sounds like everyone could use some counseling,especially your W.

All I would offer at this point is that which was already mentioned,Plan B.
This Plan helps you to detach from the drama and pain that this whole process has inflicted upon you.You become more like business partners for the sake of your sanity and also by cutting off the air supply to your W's repeated attempts to demoralize you.

Even if you still end up divorced,you will have begun to heal *yourself by not being around your W.And,your children need you and a stable life more than ever after this terrible trauma they have been part of.Your W sounds UNSTABLE to me and she should not have custody of them in my opinion.

Plan B has helped me break free from the source of my pain(WH) and begin to focus on myself and children more instead of the selfish ongoing saga of my WH A.It is a worthwhile plan.Hang in there.

Lastly,you should keep a journal and start documenting her irrational/dysfunctional behavior just for future reference.If and when in court,you will want to have a record of her instability and treatment of you and specifically her children when and if it comes down to D day.

O

Thanks Oct..I have kept a record of the things she says to the kids and places they go. In
Alabama I dont know if it will help any at all.
Maybe when the kids get older I will let them read it? any thoughts? When I listen to her talk I can hear her wanting to suck the wind out of me and have me die right before her. With Valentines day around the corner, I am going to get the girls something and forget her. This did
not go well at Christmas as you have read.
I am in the middle of the Divorce now, I have had to answer all the questions from her attorney. now its hers. How long have you been in plan B and has it helped.

Hi again,

Personally, I would not let my children read my journal of pain(if I kept one).It is only for the sole purpose of helping you in court such as showing a person's "conduct" which applies in my state.Each state may be different.

As for Plan B,I have been in it now for "only" 5 weeks.I wanted to start it sooner,around December of last year,but it was hard with all the holidays and family get together's.I did not see WH the first 3 weeks of December though so I'm not sure you could count that because technically,I broke the Plan B for Christmas.I had no choice at the time.

My WH is working in another state right now so that makes it easier for me to actually be in the plan.And it has been so much better for me to not have him around knowing he has not stopped his long distance A(homewrecker lives in Canada) and it has also helped not talking to him.We only send eachother brief,business like e-mails regarding finances and childrens issues.

WH has attempted many times to draw me into to talking to him but I cannot.It is too painful.I feel SAFE being in Plan B.Thank you Dr.Harley! So,there you go.I am a proud supporter of Plan B.It is working for me if only to help me get stronger and be strong for my daughters.

I don't know if my WH will ever decide to not be his selfish self and come back to his family but I can honestly say that it doesn't matter to me as much any more.I can see clearly being in Plan B and it has helped me to get to a point where I can be ok with whatever the outcome is.It will still be hard either way but I am stronger now.I don't have to make any decisions regarding D,I will leave that up to WH.Right now,I am just focusing on my daughter's, myself and my beloved home.And I continue to get support from my family,friends and my I <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> n-laws and SIL which has been so wonderful.

Good luck to you.I will keep reading and hoping for you.

O

I dont know if the plan b is going to work, My wife has made no contact to call or contact me in any way at all the last 3 weeks. I have not even given her the plan B letter. I really think she does not care the least. the kids have told me Mommy said we are going to get a big house and lots of land so we can get a horse. I have slips from the insurance company, looks like wife is Dr shopping.....anyway.
Since she makes no effort at all to contact me in any form, Whats the use ?

gb,

Plan B is for you to heal. NC with your W will allow you to protect what love you have left. While she is out there supposedly making 'big' plans, reality will hit. Now you can also use this time to secure your future and NOT give her any $$ (for the WS to use for the A) or meet her ENs. As long as she can string you into enabling her A, then you are not in plan B, instead you c/b in a bad plan A and being used by the Ws which invalidates the purpose of plan A.

Remember, plan B is for YOUR protection. Whether the WS contacts you or not is a side benefit. Many find that plan B brings relief to the BS and family. No longer are they being sucked into the daily pain of the A being thrown in their face along with the hurtful babbling from the WS.

L.

[ February 07, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]

Well,it's not over til it's over right? Even though she may not be talking to you,you also have to let her know how you feel and sometimes when it's on paper,it is more focused and makes sense to a WS.

There is not any guarantee that she will stop the D proceddings or whatever,but you still must move on and focus on you and those kids.If she ever turns around and says she is having second thoughts,then you could be ready if so inclined.

Also,the 180 degree list which has floated around here may be how you should interact with WW if and when you do.Plan B just requires that you stop contact with her & having that letter is showing her that there is a way back and this is how,etc.Unfortunately you did not have the "luxury" of implementing a good plan b since your WW is in such a rush to end things but there is always hope all the way to the end.But it's up to you if you send the letter.

And I would also hasten to add that I would not put too much stock in what your WW is trying to do by luring the kids into her dysfunctional world.She seems terribly insecure,immature and selfish to try and use the kids and material things to make them "happy" to be with her.She is very misguided in her thought processes.It's like a battle now for her to see which parent will "win out" over the kids.Very sad.

Anyway,as someone else here mentioned,live a life that *you can be proud of and that you will have no regrets.Your daughters will respect that when they are old enough to know who was really there for them when they needed it and who was just trying to buy them off.

O

I am sending the girls Valentines gifts. I am not going to send the wife anything, is this OK?
or is this a LB. Remember she returned the Christmas gift.
I have not given her the Plan B letter yet.
I did not get much feed back on it, wanting to make sure all is fine with it first.

Personally, I would not give your WW anything for Valentine's Day.You're Da**** if you do and da**** if you don't really but based on her previous reaction to gifts,she may feel more angry at any attempts by you.So IMO don't.

O

I'm not going to send anything to her, I am having a florist deliver some Kids packs they have, stuffed animal, Kids makeup etc for the girls. For the wife nothing.

Steve, did you send your Plan B letter?

P.S. heck no you shouldn't send her anything for Valentines.

I have not sent the letter yet, I was going to wait until I got all of the evidence from the OM's attorney. This should be next week. OM's ex told me she had to go sign some paperwork before they can send it over.
Not to worry, I am not going to send V'day gift
for the wife. I would like to because I love her.
But i Will not because of the situation she has created.

NEED EXPERT ADVICE HERE,
Last night I got a cal from one of my very good friends who the wife knows very well. She called him and was telling him she was going to try and destroy me etc.. he started asking her questions as to why she left etc, she told him she was never happy and he told her that was bs. because you have 2 children, she only mentioned the 2 times I let her down, her told her that was insane to leave, he asked her if she was having an affair, she said no. friend told wife that OM was spreading all of the rumors about her not me.
Wife told him he was crazy and he showed/told her proof. she still had a had time beliving him.
She asked friend what I have been doing, where I have been going out and really wanted to know where I was New Years eve(first time we ever made love 17years ago) he told her he did not know. She asked who I spoke with etc. Friend asked wife why she called him, wife said several months ago she hated him and thought he was talking about her. she asked him why he did not get her number and call her. friend told her he had no reason, wife said she did not understand why everybody was feeling sorry for me.
Friend and wife should talk today. Why this late
turn of events, friend said she was trying to dig up dirt on me. its not there. wife also called another friend several weeks ago and he told her everyone is looking for the old S*****
and dosent know who she has become. All she said was I made her this way she now has a backbone.
Friend is going to talk to her today sometime.
more or less tell her people miss her and still love her and want her back, he has proven to her the OM has told several people about them, people that do not even know me or the wife.
people where OM used to work is telling my friend things, they have no idea friend knows me.
hope all this makes sense.
please give some helpful advice!!

Steve:

Ah, the defication is hitting the ventilation!

Look. Stay clean. Stay NC. Stay dark.

She's asking about you because she cares, even though she's still slamming you. You've done a great job at not getting pulled in2 her drama. Keep doing that.

She is solely responsible for her lot in life, not you. Someday she'll realize that.

-ol' 2long

Talked to the kids tonight, the wife was in the back ground going "oh aint we daddy of the year"
hey L*****We have to take you to the Dr office real loud so I could hear, the kids talk to me on speaker phone so they can both talk. The wife was banging pots and pans by the phone tonight. I never made a sound, when she was through I started talking to the kids again. I was talking to one of the kids about her toys and the wife said " Yea, it's great that Santa is not as cheap as some people" Again, I never said a word.
SHe said oother mumbling stuff I could not quite make out but know it was about me, because I heard her say stupid.
I talked to them about 15 min and told them I would talk to them tommorrow.
I have not given her the plan B letter, still waiting on stuff from OM's wifes attorney before I do. I have noot spoke to my friend today to see if wife called him again. Im sure she will.

Steve, do you want custody of your kids if you end up getting divorced?

If so, then go down to radio shack and buy some telephone recording equipment and start recording these phone calls on the speaker phone. It costs like $50 and it's really easy to set up. Her making ridiculous statements like "Santa not being so cheap" etc will help out in court to show her unstable and unfit to keep the kids.

Steve, why are you waiting on the OM's attorney to send the Plan B letter? You don't need to wait. I would suggest just sending it right away. And ignore her nasty tirades. Gee, she sounds like a real sweetheart!

I am going to start recording, Last night I was talking to the girls on the speaker phone, The wife walked by and said " Stop the nice crap, it makes me sick to hear it, then she could not get me off the speaker phone so she said call back and hung up the phone. When I called back to talk to the kids she was telling me " I know your telling everyone I will not let you see the kids, (lie, I never said that)I did not say a word to her, she then kept asking me do you remember what you said a long time ago ?
I just said, Can I please talk to the girls, she
kept rambling. I hung up the phone, she called back and all I said was cna i speak to the girls.
I never acknowledged what she said.

I then heard her tell the girls they were going someplace on Saturday as a family.

Still waiting on fallout from florist delivering stuff to the kids but not the wife!!She might have thrown out the stuff for the kids, i am going to check with the florist today.

Steve, have you considered trying to get custody? Her chronic debasing of you in front of the kids almost constitutes abuse. Imagine how hard it is on those kids to not only lose their home but to have their dad bashed in front of them like this night and day.

I would go to Radio Shack today and start taping these conversations and then you can either address her about it or take steps to get custody.

That Plan B letter needs to go out NOW. If not, you are not in control of this situation at all.

Why is my wife so darn mean, all of you seem to at least get to talk to you husb. or wife.
Mine left a July 3 and talked on on off like all was ok thinking I would just roll over and give her the quick Divorce, after Sept when her mother passed away her eyes turned red. she HATES
my guts, no question about it, Do I still try and stall the divorce? could it be because the word is getting around that she and my ex friend of 21 years had an affair and now they have to sneak around and cant see each other like they did right under my nose ?
what can I expect?

Steve,

Here is what you can expect. In short...more of the same for awhile. The Radio Shack idea is GREAT!! You need to start gathering forces and info. Be ready for anything.

I went thru this a year ago (and my wife is home now...although yours might not make it back...time will tell). You need to protect yourself first, and also your kids. She walked out, she had an affair, she is trying to end the relationship (and destroy the family unit). She is the one who is scarring those kids thru her actions, and her words. It is NOT an LB to stand up for yourself, and for those kids. As a matter of fact, it is the BEST way for her to garner respect for you again (in order to have an affair, she has to have no respect for you). You see, when you stand up to her over the kids, over defense of the family, over defense of your marriage...well, sure, she will get angry. But underneath, she will begin to feel respect for you.

If you are a Christian, let me let you in on a little secret. Do you know that the Bible NEVER calls for a woman to love her husband? Oh, it commands a husband to love his wife like Christ loves us. But, the wife is never called to do the same. What is she called to do? Submit and respect. And she is doing neither right now.

But, when you stand up, when you, in a non-threatening or angry way, stand up for youyr marriage, your family, and those kids...well, it will begin to instill respect in her. She HAS to! You are now an adversary to what she THINKS she wants. If you roll over, well...no respect. But when you say "Enough, wife. I cannot stop you from doing what you are doing to yourself, but I can certainly defend this marriage, this family, and those kids from your destructive behavior. It might make you angry...so be it. If another person was hurting my wife, my kids and my family like you are, you had better believe that I would do anything I could to protect those that I love. Well, in this case, it is you that is causing this damage to yourself, to those kids and to our family. And I will not allow it!"

By standing up, preparing yourself for battle...you will instill respect in her. And for a woman, she MUST respect her man in order to love him. One of the first things my wife said when she came home and we were talking about the affair was that the launching point for her beginning to decide to come home was when I stood up to her.

Now Steve, there is no need to raise your voice. As a matter of fact, just DO what you have to do (apply for custody, tape her interactions with you, record EVERYTHING she says and does daily in a journal, etc). When she finds out that you are defending your marriage and family, she WILL become angry. VERY ANGRY!! She will try to intimidate you, to threaten all kids of things. Ignore it all! she only has the power to do what you let her do.

With my wife, I began assembling tapes, recordings of our conversations, I wrote in a journal. I began to find people she had talked to, and record their recollections in my journal so that they might be subpoened later. I made sure that any recollection about something Mommy said by the children was recorded in that journal (note: DO NOT go asking them "What is Mommy doing" or "What is Mommy saying."...if they say it, record it. Otherwise, leave them out of the middle of the battle.).

Do not consider any bit of information small. Record it all. When your lawyer gets all of this, it will save you a lot of money because you have done a lot of background work for him/her. But also, having this info...and then your wife finds out later, is like an enemy showing up with a knife to a gun fight. She will then realize that she is woefully ill-prepared for the battle that is to ensue.

Now, that sounds like I think this marriage is over and it is time to play hard ball. But I am not. By having the ammo, it doesnt mean you have to use it...or even threaten to use it. By having the ammo, it does several things:

It causes you to relax more, knowing that you are in control of the situation and it will be YOU that will be dictating things if they go to divorce.</li>
It causes her to fear that she has already lost. And in a battle, any battle, if you can get the enemy to question whether they can win or not...then they have already lost.</li>
Your wife has the advatage in custody...she is a woman. But, there are many things that you can do to make up ground. Do them now. As I outlined above (and your lawyer can help you with more).</li>
Your wife will begin to respect you. When she has a "knife" and you have a "bazooka," she HAS to have respect for you. And it is that respect that will eventually pen her in (more on this below).</li>

All of these actions help you to prepare for the worst. At the same time, they begin to squeeze her tighter into her box. Let me explain.

When she went out into the affair...and moved out, she felt initially freedom. Freedom from EVERYTHING, not just you. But, it was all a lie. And as the "chickens come home to roost," she will begin to see the consequences of her actions. She will begin to be penned in. When she isnt allowed to abuse you anymore because you are in Plan B, then she is stuck with her anger alone (you had better believe that the OM doesnt want to constantly hear about you, even if it is in anger). When she realizes that she has hurt her situation in regards to custody, she will begin to see that she cant just erase you from her life...and that she may be losing her kids (at least for half of the rest of their lives). When she realizes you have your legal act together, she begins to realize that she cant just "take everything," and that she may be stuck with much less than she expected.

Do you see what I am talkign about here. Prepare for war, and then stand back. When she learns that you have amassed an "army," and that you havent use it, she will wonder why. Why? She will think "If I had all of this on him, if I was this well prepared, you had better believe I would use it. Why hasnt he?"

When she starts asking that question, it will then be when the chance for her to realize your love again. For she will see that there is no other reason why you didnt "destroy" her, why you didnt go thru with the divorce (but instead didnt even try to particiapte in it). She will see your Plan B letter. And she will wonder.

But right now...it is time to gird yourself up. Get into a position of strength. It will make you feel better and keep you less anxious. And it will begin to start the process of closing in the walls on her.

She may still not come back. But in that case, you will be prepared for the end. But in either case (going, or returning), she has to come to a position of surrender. She has to be brought to bankruptsy. You dont need to force her ther, she is doing just fine on her own. Just document, set up boundaries, and hold your ground.

And watch her world implode. Then, you will have your opportunity to turn this "war" into your favor...and maybe win your wife back. At the very least, you can save those remaining in your family.

In His arms.

Thanks Mort, I have been documenting when she takes the kids out, shopping etc. I have the recorder and tapes and will record every conversation from here on out. My wife took the kids to the Dr yesterday and has not told me, How can I give her money for the Dr co-pay if she dosent tell me.Or prescriptions. I still give her money to for the kids, I either mail it or put the check on the front door. All I ask the kids is how there day went and what they did, I have always done this. I have not spoke to my wife in over a month. I am sure the OM still gives her money. same as her father. I have lots of ammo and really dont want to use it, it will make her look bad, I know the oM is
telling her all kinds of stuff cause the OMs wife said he talked bad about me to her. Some friend dont you think. Should I go to the kids Dr and find out the prescription and send her 1/2 the money for it or do nothing since she did
not tell me. While in Plan B I cant talk to her,
she now hates the sister in law for no reason, and the neighbor will not talk to me because she is the wifes friend. There are so many twists.
I guess next time the wife tells the kids to tell me something I will get her on the phone and tell her not to relay messages thru the kids.
All she want to tell me is her attorney is going
to make me look like a jerk, brings up the same
things that hurt her.

Steve, those were great suggestions that Mortarman gave you! I hope you contact your attorney about trying to get custody. That should shake her up a bit.

As far as paying the medical bills, leave that up to her to contact you. And if the girls come bearing a message, tell them to tell your W that she has to contact you herself. When she does tell her to stop sending messages thru the girls, that you won't have them dragged into it. She can send a message thru your intermediary.

I sent the plan B letter, I have not heard from her about it yet. waiting on the fallout.
I have asked for all of her Dr visits and prescriptions filled, also all of cell records!!
This will shake her up for sure. Looks like she has been visiting several Drs days apart..

Why did you ask her for records of doctors visits and prescriptions? Because she asked you to pay for them? I would not pay anything unless you had the actual bill. How come you asked her for the cell phone bill?

I think she is dr shopping for pain pills etc.
The cell records are to show who all she is talking to and to prove she is working, she works cutting hair and has all of her customers, this will help show she has employment and reduce the child support I have to pay. SHe has worked this year for cash. Most of the Drs she has been to are family practice type, Doc in a box as they call them, go in with a pain out with a prescription. I know she is on an Anti Dep. and Darvocet along with a lot of sinus med, this is just from 1 dr. this is the reason for the Dr stuff.

Melody, see the answer to your questions above,
Mort. I read your last post, should I change anything? sounds like you regret Plan B
Also, what if wife does not respond to plan B
letter. I sent it to her on Tuesday.

Steve,

First off, I never have regretted Plan B...I am a proponent of Plan B!! So, now that you are in Plan B, you are on my "turf."

Now, your Plan B letter (PBL). What if she doesnt respond? Steve, she will respond. She has to. Even going along and never contacting you ever again is a response. But, I want you to see something here. For the first time in all of this, YOU ARE IN CONTROL. She is RESPONDING to you. She no longer gets to walk around carte blanche. She can make demands until she is blue in the face, but that just means that she is talking to a wall...because you my friend are in NC.

The rules have now been set...not by her...by you. Whether she likes it or not, she will have to abide by them. You are in control. You call the shots now.

In Plan B, it is all about you. It is about getting you out of that mess, to protecting your love for her. It is about starting to piece your life back together, and to get some normalcy to it. It is about working out, getting sleep, eating right. Do you see, the first and most important part of Plan B is YOU...not her.

The second is that she now gets to live with the consequences of her actions. She lives with her decisions. She gets no Steve fixes. She gets nothing. Why do you think she wants to argue and threaten you? If she truly didnt care at all, she would just shut up and do what she has to do to get out of this marriage. Why all the drama?

Ask yourself those questions Steve. If you dont have the answers now, you will shortly...when she explodes. She will scream, threaten, etc. Remain calm and remain in NC. Everytime she tries to contact you, dont answer. I assume that your PBL has set up the boundaries on how to deal with the kids (3rd party, email, etc). Dont be baited into ANY conversations with her.

Instead, start getting your act together...with YOUR life. Financially, legally, socially, etc. You have a lot of work to do...not much time to worry about what she is doing (another benefit of Plan B). Make a plan.

Look, even if she is to come home, she wont be back for awhile. It could be months. When she does, there will be a lot of work to do on your marriage, etc. So use this time alone WISELY! If she comes back, you will need to have your act together financially, etc. If she doesnt, then you will need to be prepared for court...and also be prepared to move on with life and someone else.

So, this time is about you. You will never have this kind of time alone again. So, get done all of those things that you have been putting off. Go back to school, learn to play guitar, whatever. It will make you feel better, will improve your future. And, let me let you in on a little secret...she will find out. She will hear from the kids that you are playing guitar now. She will know thru your contacts that you are very busy because you have put yourself back into school. Or whatever. And what do you think she is going to think? How will she perceive you?

She will see a man, not lost in his mess, but a man that is able to overcome even without her. She will remember why she loved you, and most important, she will wonder what she is going to miss out on. Who is this new Steve guy?

But, the question for you remains the same, Steve. No matter what she does, whether she comes home or leaves, Plan B is still the same for you. That is the beauty of it. You dont have to do one thing to win her back, or another thing to be ready for diorce and a new life. With Plan B, it is the same path.

Get with it. You have sent the PBL. Now, it is her problem. Get on getting your legal house in order. Research everything you can on how to protect yourself and your kids. Find out what it will take for a mother to lose custody of her kids. Get all of the ammo you can on her, so you will be ready. Then work on your life. Write all of this down. Get a big calendar and post it in your house. Plan it all, just like a military operation. Dont leave yourself idle time. Get busy.

In His arms.

I been busy, going out with frends on Thursdays to eat, joined the gym, back working out again.
Mort, I just can hardly belive your story and mine are very close. Wife always talked about the way I sounded when I said stop or dont do that. she said I sounded very mad, mean hateful.maybe she was afraid in some kind of way. Now she does not even speak to me. Waitin to see what happens.

Melody, please read about the Dr and cell records posted above.

Steve, can you elaborate on the doctor's visits thing? How did you find out and how did you ask her and why do you think she would be scared and why would she comply with your request to turn them over? Can you fill me in, oh-man-of-few-words?!

Mel, You are one of the few people to ever say I was a man of few words, this message board thing is NEW to me. The way I found out about the Dr visits is when ever she goes to any Dr, the insurance carrier, Blue Cross, sends a summary of charges form to me, the insurance policy holder. I have then went to the drug store and
done other research on some of the Family type doctors she has gone to. They like to prescribe pills, Loratab, darvocet etc. As I als said earlier, I sent the plan B letter with some of your changes to my wife on Tuesday, no comment yet. The wife is talking about taking the kids to Mardi Gras Monday or Tuesday, I have them this weekend. I have talked to the OM wife. She has all of her Exs cell records and it shows where he and my wife talked on the cell phone
about 10 time per day. once they found out I was
looking at all the records they stopped calling on the cell hpones like each of them died.
If you look at the records its talk talk talk
then STOP. Looks funny, How can they just stop like Bam!, My attornet says it dosent happen like that. They are being very secretive, I also found out the wife (sure its her) got the kids
Nintendo Advance game boys for Valentine day,
she also got tehm Gymnastics workout outfits/warmup suits, she went and bought herself new bikinis and the kids swimsuits as well. Does this sound like she is starving for money. She told the kids they better not tell me about the Nintendos. I promised my 9 year old daughter I would not tell her I knew. They both told me about the nintendo, said they also got more Playstation II games as well. Yet the wife tells all her friends I dont give her any money. I currently give 500 per mo. plus pay car insurance, life insurance and health insurance.
She has no bills except gas for the car and her cel phone. Last month she talked over 1500 minutes on it(to who) this is why I want cell records, she cuts hair and this will prove employment, she also better file a tax return this year!!!!!!!!!She is self employed.

So Steve, does that mean you are going to bust her with this info on the prescriptions and doctors visits? Is that the point?

And I take it you are not a man of few words in person? Are you quiet or chatty? My DH is very very quiet and I am a chatterbox!

I do plan on showing the perscriptions she keeps getting. I know she also takes anti Dep.
My wife and I were/are outgoing, our house
always had people over swiming, hottub cooking out etc. I can be the joke of the party without any problem. If I had to choose my wife is a little more of the social butterfly than I am.
I guess a lot of times I have to make sure on of
us could drive home when we were out. normally when we would go out there were lots of friends
there, (my friends) funny she told me I didnt have any. I do talk more on the phone or in person.

Ok, check this out, Tuesday night while I was out of town I called for the kids several times.
No answers Last night I called and the wife answered, I said Hi S*** may I please speak to one of the girls, she said there not here right now, she then said the reason I did not answer the phone was because you said you did not want to talk to me> I then asked what time the girls would be home and said goodbye.
Today I get home from work and I find out the wife has been to 3 doctors ( Orthopedic) I
caled the Dr and was told they specialize in
Knee, hip and shoulder surgries. The wife does not know I know this. What do I do? I found out
because the insurance sends the billing summary to the house. please advise

Why do you need to do anything?

Maybe I dont really get this Paln B, am I to sit back and let her come to me, let her make the first move. My sister in law is going to take
my wife a check for half the medicine for my daughter this weekend. Mel did you read my last few posts about the doctors etc?

During this paln B How will I know when to start talking with her?

Steve, yes that is right. You just sit back and let her do any contacting in Plan B. Did she ask you for the money for your daughters prescriptions? Yes, I did read your posts about the doctors.

No she has not asked for the money, I want to do my part. I will have to pay for half the meds. once the div. is final. Do you think she was wanting to talk to me the other night.
What your telling me is wait until she tells my sister in law she wants to talk to me, what do you think about my sis in law taking the check by on Sat. She has also been calling one of my other friends we used to go out with. She is talking to him about small things like when I scolded the kids when they were bad, about how everyone feels sorry for me and nobody is thinking about her feelings. My friend tells her
everyone is thinking over her. I asked my friend if she said its over for good and he said she has not said. he will talk to her in the next day or so.

I wouldn't make it easy for her, Steve! Make her belly up to the bar and ASK for the money. And I would also require copies of the bills. Make her SQUIRM!

It sounds like she is trying to get others to help her rationalize the demonization of Steve! That means she isn't too confident about what a bad guy you are and is trying to convince others. I would just sit back and chill.

I kinda get the same feeling, I think she has tried to find someone to say bad things about me other than my ex best friend. just aint gonna find anyone other than her 2 friends that tell her what she wants to hear. I think she may
have some second thoughts, The reason I wnat to pay half is, if she is thinking about me will this
show I am willing to change, not LB, will paying 1/2 of the med deposit love points?

Steve, but that is what you did in Plan A. Now you are in Plan B and not supposed to meet her needs. It is time to make her squirm and put pressure on her. Let her see as much reality as possible. She can come to you and ask for money if she needs more than the $500 you are sending her. You are taking care of your kids' support as agreed with her. You are doing good, just hang in there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

when my friend talks to her later this week, if she tells him she would like to talk to me before
the divorce is final or goes to court or meet me for lunch am I to go meet her? my friend is not the person in the plan B letter, I know he has told her I still care for her and want more than anything for us to workout our dfferences/problems is ther anything wrong with this ?

Steve, yes you should go and talk with her. Don't get your hopes up, but this is the time when many WS get cold feet and want to come back. If she has something to say to you, let her come meet with you and hear what she has to say.

I still hold out hope but have also thought about life without her, I have had several people already tell friends of theirs they want them to meet me once the D is final. I sure hope my wife turns around and comes home. I miss her and the girls everyday.

Steve, and I hope they do come home, too. I really do. Hopefully, she will come to her senses.

its been 2 1/2 weeks with no reply form my wife at all. Should I get on of my friends to test the waters and see how she feels, to see if she would even consider talking to me?

Oh no, Steve, please don't contact her at all. Let her contact you if any contacting is to be done. Dont' get impatient! How are the girls? Have you given any more thought to trying to get custody? If she is on painkillers that is even more reason to try and get them. What do you think?

My wife has been talking to one of my friends,
he was one of the people always over and whom we used to go out with, He has been talking to her
trying to get her feelings in a very indirect way, talking about old times etc. Today I gave my sis in law a check for the wife, she called my wife and wife did not answer but did call her back, this has changed since a coulpe of weeks ago my wife would not even look or talk to her while grocey shopping. I have also found out that my wife called several of the phone numbers from my cell phone records asking them if they have ever been out with me etc. people that she
called has told me she said stuff like, I met you the other night when you were out with Steve
etc. not true. I am not going to contact the wife, like I said my friend that my wife hated a few months ago but now calls is going to meet her
for lunch, she called in out of the blue asking him what I done New years Eve, and was telling him she knew what I done etc, trying to get him to admit something, all he told her was I have no idea what he done.
any advice, does it look like she is softening up maybe just a little?

It looks like she is trying to dig up dirt on you so she can defend herself in court. I am sorry to have to point that out, but that is what I sense here.

Oh I know exactly what she is trying to do, what I am asking is that since she is now talking to friends and sis in law whom she hated just weeks ago, does it look like she is maybe having second thoughts. Just weeks ago she was saying she hated my friend because bla bla bla, same thing sith sis in law. Now she is wanting to meet my friend for lunch. Now she at least called
sis in law back when 2 weeks ago she did not even speak to her when they were 10' apart.
and tonight when I called for the girls she talked normal telling me my oldest daughter was at a kids camp at church with the neighbor.
not real sarcastic like last week.

hmm, just be real careful. Maybe it is a good sign! On the other hand, could she be trying to get info from them to use against you? Why do you think she's being nice? Thats a new development.

I have no idea right now why she is being nice,
thats why the friend is going to meet her for lunch. there is nothing either of them can tell my wife that would hurt me. the divorce date is set for April 14th, I spoke to my attorney and my wife has not reurned the answers to the inorogitories, they are going to file a motion to compel. all of my answers have been delivered to her attorney. she has my cell records and is going down them calling numbers she dosent
reconize.

My friend talked to my wife today, she got the answers from the questions her attorney asked me, she is very mad, thinks I am trying to make her look bad, thinks I am going to take the kids from her, she was mad I had listed all of our friends to be supoenaed. Told the friend I was all about myself. I did not do anything unless I stood to gain something from it. she told the friend she has not liked me for the past few years, hard to tell since we had sex 3 or 4 times per week with her starting it all the time. Told my friend she was loosing weight and her hair was falling out, she was mad that all our friends was talking about poor old Steve.
My friend mentioned counseling and wife said she was going to need it, friend mentioned us together getting it and she said no. She then told the friend I was being fake to the kids
and it made her sick to hear my voice. said I was a big put on.

Sounds like she is still trying hard to yank your chain and just can't do it. Any thoughts on getting custody?

I really dont know whaT my attorney has asked for, My wife was telling my friend, see Steve wants you to testify that I am a bad mother unfit etc. My friend knows better, Wife is late on returning the answers to the questins my attorney asked. my friend was here and i listened on the other line, he said he know 80% was bs. wife still talked about when I cried the
day and weeks after she left. said the neighbor
her friend, called and told her this. wife was telling friend how divorce did not happen on her
side of the family, talked about how I handled her mom not liking me. I done what my wife asked me to do. now she wants to blame me. friend is
going to ask her to go to counseling with me.

Steve, do you feel like she has become unstable? Was she always so unstable and vindictive when you were together?

no all my friend ssay they want the old S***** to come back, they say they dont know her, when she talks to my friend she tells them I hrove her crazy. She tells them she was/has been so unhappy for so many years that she is now letting it all out. how can she be unhappy for so long and not tell anyone and also have 2 beautiful kids with me and then say she never loved me. sounds like bs

Well, it sounds like affair talk but with her it sounds like MORE. Do you think she has a pill addiction?

hard to tell about the pills, she told the friend I tried to be fair told Steve he could have this and that but he wanted it all. she then told the friend her father has given to 10-12k since June, what the hell is she spending this money on, I give her money as well plus she works!!!
Mel, Does this sound like its over?
do I use all the evidence I have or let her know I have it but not use it, she laughed to my friend when she said my ex best friends wife was going to be sopeneaed. Wife does not know I will get all her evidence she had against him.

Steve, I have seen too many marriages reconcile around here from WORSE circumstances than yours. And I have seen others than seemed hopeful, fall apart. So you just can never tell.

I would give your attorney all the evidence you have and try to get custody of your girls. I would tell him to actively pursue custody. It is very disconcerting to think that she has those girls and has been abusing pain killers and denigrating their father to them. That is sick emotional abuse.

the court date is set for April 14th, should I have it postponed until a later date? There are so many things she thinks I am doing that I am not, do I try and get my friend to tell her what she is saying is not true, that i have not said or done what she has accused me of.

Steve, I wouldn't postpone anything and I wouldn't try to get your friend to convince her of anything. I don't think the truth sounds like it is an important matter to her anyway. She just wants to demonize you and is making herself look foolish in the process. That is probably why all your friends are saying "poor Steve." No one serious will fall for her nonsense.

I thought I read where Harley says to postpone the Divorce if this is not what you want. draw it out?
would this help or hurt, April 14 is 6 weeks away.

please read previous post

Steve, he says to postpone it in Plan A. However, i think in your case, it would backfire because I think she is getting nervous. If you postpone it, she will relax. Is your divorce going to final on April 14th? I thought that was just a court date?

I found out today depositions are set for March 30 and court date is April 14th. If we go to court on the 14th when we leave we will be divorced.
Are you telling me not to postpone the April 14th date?

You know, I would hold out for awhile longer and see what develops here before you do anything. I wonder if she isn't getting cold feet herself? I say let her squirm and see what happens. Maybe she will postpone it herself?

I will hold out, bottom line if she does not stop it do I ?

I spoke to OM's wife and she says the OM is furious at her. Cussing and telling he he will not pay her a dime. He has to pay Alimony and from what I am told the only time this happens in Alabama is if there was an affair.

I think they are still talking just by some of the comments OM makes to his Ex.

Waiting on all the evidence from that case.

Wife called tonight, she talked to the kids and asked where they were, I said in the background it did not matter. About 5 min. after she got off the phone with the kids she called back and wanted to talk to me. I told my daughter to give the phone to sis in law to field the message she wanted to give me. Wife did not want to talk to her so I hung up the phone and when she called back let it go to voice mail.

Wife left 2 messages, telling me I would remember this next time I wanted to tak to the kids. The sis in law then called the wife and they went at it, the wife was telling her I drove her crazy and I was to blame for her leaving, the sis in law to my wife that the OM had her head all screwed up and has her thinking crazy thoughts. The sis in law also told her she was hurt since the wife will not talk to her any more, they were very close.
Wife told sis in law she was loosing weight and her hair was falling out. same thing she told friend the other night.
wife was telling sis in law I was going for custody and she had to pay her attorney an extra 7k, Wife told sis in law I was going to try and make her look like an unfit mother. I have said none of this, the sis in law told my wife this and the wife said she did not belive her. told her I was tellling lies.

comments please also above post

Saw wife today at kids school function, I did not talk to her at all. She walked by and acted like she was was in plan B against me. I dont know if this plan b has any affect on her. I really think she does not give a damn what happens to me. She did at least leave voice mail on my cell phone that was half way normal, said Hey, Im calling for the kids, please have them give me a call, she even said bye.
Had to have been someone else call, bye is the nicest thing she has said to me in weeks.

Please read above post also.

Steve, that is a nice development, maybe she is catching on that she has to treat you with respect? Did you have have the girls call her back?

yes I did, the kids called 20 minustes after I realized she called. Mel, do I postpone the D, I dont see how this is a nice development. She did not say a word or look my way today. She walked by within 3 feet and didnt look my way, nothing.

She is going out with her father tonight.
Remember I was out around Christmas and ran in to them.

I just dont see how her saying bye on the voice message is anything

Steve, you will have to decide if the divorce will be postponed but let me suggest something to you. What good do you think it would do?

How do you think she will react to that? Wouldn't she view such a postponement as an opportunity to mock you and hold you up for riducule? I wonder, on the other hand, if you stay the course and let things happen, that she might respond better to a show of strength. What do you think?

I am talking last minute postpone, I also think that if she has to continue to stay away from om
all the while she may realize this is not worth it. The OM and my wife right now are really mad,
OM's wife says she has never heard him cuss or act like he has in the 12 years they were together. My wife never cussed during or marriage, she is now making up for lost time.

Our Babysitter come to me and told me she saw the wife out shopping and said she has lost
a lot of weight, she was only 105 before, now probably 90. she has been in the tanning beds and still getting her nails done.

I just feel that if I postpone it, she/they will get tired of this.
dont know if this is good or bad, thats why I keep asking.
Or do I let it go and tell her to go ****off
and move on?

Steve, I can't answer if you should postone it or not. I gave you my thoughts on how she might react. But you know the situation better and have to think it through to determine which path would work better. I don't think you just say **** it, but I do think she might just use such a thing against you. And remember, divorce does not necessarily mean the end. I wonder if a divorce would wake her up?

Mel, I have wondered the same thing, should I just let her go, She has told everyone I am going to try and do this and that, all of which is not true. I have tried to tell her I am not going to embaress her like she has been doing to me, no need to tell everyone our private moments.
She will not listen to me or sis in law, she has her mind made up of what she thinks I will do.
I guess she will find out when we go to mediation. maybe then she will realize just how much I love her, its been 8 months since she left and I miss her just as much now as I did
when she first left, I keep telling friends I donot want to meet anybody now, they keep wanting tot fix me up. I want My wife and kids back. I do not want to destroy her, she has called the neighbors and friends telling them Steve is gonna do this and that, you wait and see.
She is wrong.

Steve, what has she been saying you are going to do? See, I think you should squeeze her as much as possible. Any consequences you can inflict can only help the situation. But what does she think you are planning?

my wife like to go out and when all of us were out she liked to do the flash thing, since she got the boob job. she dressed really wild, I was there,but most women did not like her and thought she was slutty, naked in the hottub, skinny dipping in the pool. her 2 friends (1 is my our neighbor)and the OM were never here when she done that. The om has said before he did not like that type of stuff, he was around every now and then when we all cooked out and that's what the guys talked about. OM did not like that.
She liked to joke with the guys, listen to guy stories. She was also with another woman for about 30 seconds for shock value. it has never happened again. I think she is worried I am going to tell her father and friends. She aslo
had some nude photos of herself. This is private stuff and I am not into revealing this to anyone. This was all her idea, Im sure drinking had something to do with it. She also went to strip clubs and made a big deal about it, all the dancers hung all over her, Manager offered her a job. this is what she thinks Im going tot tell, she also thinks Im gonna try and prove she is a bad mother. Not true.

Mel, please read above post as well,

Sat. my brother and I were at a local home builders show. The OM is a local remodeler.
as he was giving the oh look how good I am to some couple I stopped just to listen, I never said a word to him. listened for a while to his lies and left. looked around for a while. We were getting ready to leave and my brother walked up to the OM and flipped the bird to him. about 1/4 inch from his nose. I did not say a word. Just walked off. the Om did not make a sound.

When the OM first saw us he left his booth for about 5 minutes. Just like my wife did when she saw his ex out one night while we were still an item.

is/was this a LB, did I do wrong(I know I will be blamed for it)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 my wife like to go out and when all of us were out she liked to do the flash thing, since she got the boob job. she dressed really wild, I was there,but most women did not like her and thought she was slutty, naked in the hottub, skinny dipping in the pool. her 2 friends (1 is my our neighbor)and the OM were never here when she done that.
She was also with another woman for about 30 seconds for shock value. it has never happened again. I think she is worried I am going to tell her father and friends. She aslo
had some nude photos of herself. This is private stuff and I am not into revealing this to anyone. This was all her idea, Im sure drinking had something to do with it. She also went to strip clubs and made a big deal about it, all the dancers hung all over her, Manager offered her a job. this is what she thinks Im going tot tell, she also thinks Im gonna try and prove she is a bad mother. Not true. <hr /></blockquote>Is it alright if your daughters do this stuff too? I read all this and I am no longer surprised that she had an affair. Are you surprised after knowing all this, Steve?

I imagine that she is scared that you will tell this stuff in court because it sure would be pertinent in a custody hearing. It speaks to her fitness as a parent. Do you feel she is fit as a parent?

yes she is a fit parent, I think she really is confused. the OM has her convinced of greener grass. The wife only done this on ocasion, I know we are good enough parents to raise or kids and when they get to be 38-40 if this is what they choose and are not hurting anybody then fine. I know this is not what you probably want to hear.

I really dont see how the behavior i described caused her to stray. The OM was never around.
Are you saying she strayed because she did not want to act like that, It was her idea for the boob job, I tried to talk her out of it, she wanted it after the kids were born. I never made her flash, her idea.

she is a very good mother, she has made a very bad mistake.

a motion to compel was issued today, what do you think about her walking by without talking?

Called for the kids, the wife got on the phone and said let me tell you bla bla bla, I told her I did not want to talk to her and to quit harassing me, she then started saying she was going to call the police on me for harassing her, funny how she tried to turn it around, All I asked was please let me speak to the girls, she would not, I then told her if she had something to say to call my sis in law or contact my attorney. this is why when I go get the kids I have someone go with me.
Maybe this plan b thing is working, she said I tried talking to you and be nice to you but you did not want to talk, she said you never answwer the phone, I know you have it forwarded to your cell, and thats why you got home at 7:30 last night. I told my wife i dont always have a phone on me. she said sure you dont. I hung up and she calld back, I kept asking to talk to the girls and after 5 min of asking she put them on the phone.

Mel or Mort, please read last 2 post and advise.

found out wife is getting of the home phone records for her court case, have no Idea what she is looking for here. She is going back 2 years, this will help me. it will show how many times per day her and Om talked.

please read last couple of actions
need advice

Steve, it sounds like she is changing her attitude quite a bit towards you. Do you sense the same thing?

it is hard to say, I kept telling her last night I did not want to talk to her if she had anything to say to me then talk to sis in law, she is made at me and blames me for my brother confornting OM.
NOte, she has always told people I am not giving her money and telling me she dosent have any. I noticed the car was spotless so I called the carwash and asked for a recipt, just by chance. sure enough she paid 135 dollars for car wash plus carpet shampooed.

her attitude, she makes no effort to contact me or sis in law, a friend of mine who knows my wife and I see my wife on Tuesdays when she drops the girls off at gymnastics. the wife does not know this person. My friend told my sis in law that my wife looks so mad all the time. he said she looks bad, tired etc.

how should I play my cards?

Steve, I would just keep being as civil as possible and playing it by ear but I am curious about something. Do you think she is trying to engage you? Or is she still hostile? If she wanted to see you would she tell you?

I think she really dosent know what to think, She does at times try to engage me. I told her last night to quit harassing me, she did not like this and said it was me harassing her. I dont talk to her except when she answers the phone, I ask to speak with the kids. some times she says sure!hold on real smart [censored] like, I ignore this other times she says let me tell you something bla bla bla, mel did oyu read the other actions since you last post, Hope i did not offend you with that one post.

Steve, no, I wasn't offended at all! The things you told me made me wonder if she even thinks adultery if wrong. If she doesn't think its wrong, then Houston, we have a problem! See what I mean? I just can't seem to get a FEEL for her or your situation and am trying to understand it.

Do you think she knows it wrong and is just rationalizing it because she is addicted to this guy? What are her views normally on adultery?

What do you think would happen if you sort of flirted with her the next time you call over there and she is pleasant?

From what she has told me in the past she is dead set against cheating on your spouse.

As I said she never acted crazy,slutty etc around Om, he would see us out and she would have a low cut shirt on etc. never seemed to be a problem. she never went skinny diping etc around him, she did not like myself or friends talking about it around him.

She told my friend last week that when ever I touched her it made her sick, do I dare try and flirt, she said she never loved me but stayed with me so her mom would not think she was a failure.

How would I try and flirt, any ideas.

I have to tell you how to flirt??? lol! C'mon, Steve, surely you have flirted with her? You are too funny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She told my friend last week that when ever I touched her it made her sick, do I dare try and flirt, she said she never loved me but stayed with me so her mom would not think she was a failure.<hr /></blockquote>That sounds like revisionist history to me. Did she ACT LIKE she didn't love you and couldn't stand for you to touch her all these years?

no, she never acted lke she did not want me to touch her, like i said sex 3 or 4 times per week. She started it 95% of the time. The reason I asked about the flirting thing is maybe I am gun shy. Guess i dont want anything thrown back in my face.

Plus how can I flirt if i am in plan B?

is there any chance of talking on the phone, this typeing stuff is hard, plus I forget what I want to say sometimes. I understand if you say no.

what do think about the car wash, person of few words.

Steve, when you talk to her on the phone the next time, try just being nice to her and see how she reacts. I am trying to determine if she is softening up towards you.

As far as the things she told your friend about not loving you, that is all typical WS fog talk. They all exaggerate and lie about how bad it was in a weak attempt to justify the affair.

Sorry I can't talk on the phone.

Should I tell her something like, you looked nice the other day when I saw you, She may think Im sarcastic since she has lost weight. She was
working the sno cone booth which we could not find, should I tell her sorry we could not find it, we asked and they did not know either.
She already jumped down my throat because ny brother confronted the OM. I defended myself and told her if she wanted to tell my brother something then she should call him and leave me out of it.

I feel stuck right now, dont want to make another wrong move in her eyes,

should I talk about our daughters,
or comment on my wife.

Steve, just see what happens if you tell her she looked nice. I want to see what her reaction is.

Mel, I was speaking with my daughters and when we
were finished I asked ot speak with Mommy, My daughter said Mommy daddy wants to speak with you, she said tell him I dont want to talk. I then said tell Mommy I want to tell her something real quick, My daughter told her that. My wifes reply was tell Daddy I dont want to ttalk to him because we always argue when we talk.

I told My daughter I just wanted to tell Mommy she really looked nice this past weekend.
My daughter said she would tell mommy this.

Whats Up?

Do you always argue when you talk? Will your daughter tell her you said that?

yes my daughter will tell her, I dont think we always argue, the last time she was mad because of what my brother had done to Om. She told me you better tell your brohter bla bla bla, I told her to call him if she had anything to say to him.
I donot yell or raise my voice. When my wife answers I will tell her again if you think I should or is there another plan.

Just see how she acts the next time you call over there. I am curious to see if there will be any response. Is she still seeing the OM?

I think so, while Im at work, I know this past weekend he had a babysitter for his kids while I had our kids, seems very strange. Also how would my wife know what my brother done, my daughter was there but she did not understand what was done ohter than we did not talk to him.

I feel they still talk at the very least

Called for the kids, wife will not answer the phone, I kinda expected this.
Mel, please read the above post to questions you asked last night

I called and spoke to the kids, they said they were out late last night with the wife and was
over at the neighbors all day today.

I asked my daughter if she told Mommy I said she looked nice this past Sat. when we saw her. My daughter said she told mommy, I asked what Mommy said and she told me mommy said "whatever"

Ok Mel what now.

Ok, I guess she didn't respond to it. I would just keep moving forward, Steve, and stay in Plan B. There is really nothing you can do, except try to put pressure on her via the court proceedings. Has child support been set? What about custody arrangements?

While talking to my daughter last night I found out that she had broken out in a rash, wife told daughter to tell me it was because of some med. she had given her. I told daughter not to say what mommy said, I told her Mommy needed to tell me what happened.

I called this am to check on my daughter and wife did not answer the phone, I left a message telling wife I was calling to check on ****** to please call and let me know how she was.

Should I try and tell wife instead of having daughter tell her? Should I write her a letter?

I really dont think the wife gives a S*** about this plan B, right now I think the only person it affects is me.

Steve, but Plan B is working to stop the arguing and withdraw you from her craziness. That was gettting you nowhere. Do you really need to talk to your W about this rash or do you feel she has it under control?

I feel she has it under control, Daughter said
mommy thought it was a generic brand med for a stuffy nose. I guess I want the wife to tell me
the details and not a 9 year old, I want my wife to be an adult.

Wife took kids to New Orleans this past weekend,
I know there is no way she could do this on her own. She is/was very bad with directions.

Plus if wife called I could tell her she looked nice and got her reaction.

What about a letter when I send a check to her ?

Why would my wife subpoena my sister in laws parents and my parents ohter than try to embarass
myself, brother and sis in law and herself?

Sis in laws father has only met my wife 2 or 3 times at birthday parties, her mohter used to get her hair cut by my wife?

My parents, I dont have a clue.

What she does not know is that none of the people
she calls will sit in the court room other than the person on the stand.

I think wife has blown a gasket

Steve, I dont know why she would subpoena all those people. What does your attorney say?

I would drop the looking nice angle. I thought she might be open to some nice gesture on your part but it doesn't look like it.

mel. neighbor who wife subopenaed called and told me she does not want to testify and will not.

I had to speak to wife about picking up kids tonight and she was miffed, what time you gonna pick them up, I wished you would have called, I have been telling her for the past 3 weeks where we were going.
I told her that, she then told me My friends are telling me not to let them go, I told her thanks
for not listening to your friends.

She then started going on about taking the kids from her(custody) she started reading my answers
from her inorg's, I told her gotta run I'll call later. She said bye.

I didnt let her ramble to much, I was out of town
and told her I was on a plane all day is the reason I did not call. I then told her again, you have konwn for 3 weeks, she then asked about getting the kids from school tomm.
I told her yep I was going to, she said I did not know, I told her I get them every other
week you know that.

She has not answered the inorg's from my attorney. We have had to file 2 motions to compel.

picked the kids up and had them give the wife a check and a rose I made from a napkin(old Bar trick) the girls gave them to the wife and she said thanks, I asked my daughter what mommy done with the rose and my daughter said Mommy put it on the counter.
At least she did not throw it away in front of the kids or tell them to give it back.

Please read above post as well.

Hi Steve, I like what you did with the rose and think you did good in ending the earlier conversation. I don't really have any comments other than that. What are your thoughts about getting custody?

In Alabama the chances are very slim, I ahve been told she would have to do some unlawful stuff.

I would love to have them, i took them to Clifford the Big Red Dog, had a blast, wish mommy was there.

The kids told me the wifes father bought an above ground pool for them, looks like thery are trying to buy the kids.

Got some of the wife anwsers, she has seen a lot of doctors. Several different pain pills, pills for Nauesea, pain pills are, darvocet and lortab
and some other pill for migrain headaches.
and sinus stuff.

Found several lies on some other questions,

said her father has given her 20k plus what I
have given her plus what she has earned, lied about insurance policies and ira. still has not
produced cell records. she has also lied about pharmacies she has had prescrip's filled at. I know of 2 others she has not listed.

She filed a motion to compel against me, I did not list the address of 1 private investtgation
company. thats it, my attorney said this is the dumbest thing he has seen. have a lot of wifes checks, department stores everywhere spending like a drunk sailor. she has 2 credit cards
and already has a late payment on it.

please check out last 2 posts.

I called and spoke to my attorney today, They have the OM's cell records, it shows where he was calling our house and talking to my wife 10
to 20 times per day, he even called from Orlando when he was on vacation with his family.

We finally got the interrogotories back from her,
on the question of have you had sexual relations with another person, she took the 5th.

what now.

please give some advice,

pills listed include 3 pain pills, 2 anti d's,
muscle relaxers and something for nausea.

also she has been to 10 different Drs.

Looks like Im gonna be divorced, she has not made
any attempt of any kind to turn around,

Also she stated her father has given her 20k plus what I have given her plus her earnings, about 30k total since July 1, Tax free.

All kinds of checks to clothing stores, Victoria secrets, etc...

Hi Steve! Well, does it help you in any way to know about the calls between she and the OM? I am not sure what you are asking so don't know what to give you advice about.

I really dont what Im asking either, maybe Im just in shock at what a dumb [censored] I was for trusting my wife and friend or what I thought was a friend.

10 to 20 calls per day, her pleading the 5th. does this seem odd. could it be just an EA and
not a PA what do all the signs point to ?

I just want this to slow down and her and I talk, do you think it beyond that?

does it sound like there is any chance for me?

her answers to our questions are a complete joke.
she listed her monthly income as 307.00 per month.
under budget she listed a house payment with all utilities, she lives with her father and has no bills other than a cell phone. she as already ran up 750 in credit card debit. also she has listed pest control, cable internet etc.

she said I have been verbaly and mentaly abusive.

please read last post.
what do you make of wife pleading the 5th to the
question about sexual relations outside of the marriage?

My friend called my wife by mistake on his cell phone, he avoided the divorce stuff but she brought it up, she keeps telling him I am going for custody. I have never said I was going for custody, I would like for custody but cannot
hurt her by doing this, also I will not use my kids in this way. Should I relay this to her
or let it ride, we have depositions set for Tues the 30th.

I wish she would turn around, looks like Charles Manson has a better chance of being president
than her coming back any time soon.

I asked my daughter what mommy done with the rose
I suggest you don't quiz your kids about what your wife is doing (as above).

I would like for custody but cannot hurt her by doing this,
So you think it's better the kids are hurt?
Who would be the better parent, not who would get "hurt"?

also I will not use my kids in this way.
If you are doing what is best for the kids, then you are not using the kids to hurt her. That would simply be a by-product of protecting the kids.

with depositions set for Tuesday I was wondering if I should try and talk to my wife and let her know I wish to try and save our marriage regardless of what others say. Let her know we can work through our differences. maybe write another letter? I was going to talk to her when we were in the depo. room before it starts, any ideas?

please read above post

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 with depositions set for Tuesday I was wondering if I should try and talk to my wife and let her know I wish to try and save our marriage regardless of what others say. Let her know we can work through our differences. maybe write another letter? I was going to talk to her when we were in the depo. room before it starts, any ideas? <hr /></blockquote>Steve, I wouldn't do that. I think you already laid that all out in your letter, didn't you? That just puts all the power back in her hands. Let her come to you. She knows your conditions. Let her do the work.

Go through the depo, and then what? stall divorce date set for April 14th?.
my friend called her by mistake and she said she just loves shopping now, talked about how dark she was from being in the tanning bed and she has colored her hair.

he was going to ask about counseling, see if maybe he can talk her into at least going to listen. he has taken up for me whenever
she starts harping on me, she still talks about the same 2 issues. 2 things in 17 years.

What does she harp about?

about not supporting her when she fell and went to the hospital, she busted her mouth. this was after one of the nights she was out till 3am.
I saw her at the hospital and just left, the other time was not wanting to be a paul bearere at her Grandfathers funeral 10+ years ago. I did not know the man and her 2 brothers refused to be one. I finally gave in and was a paulbearer.

Don't know in what country you live, but in the US, I am not aware of any state where it is a criminal offense to sleep with another man's wife or another woman's husband (although it should be !!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) I am sure your attorney told you this, but unless there is some criminal charge that can be brought against her for her answer to the questions in the interrogatories, taking the 5th is not a proper answer. Does your wife have an attorney?? I would ask your attorney about this and whether you could seek sanctions against them? Just a thought.

Regards,

Brit's Brat (BS)

Thanks Britt, I think part of the reason she took the 5th is to keep from looking bad infront of her friends and her father. She does have an attorney. The OM admitted in his D he had an affair.
I was talking to the kids tonight and asked about the day at the beach thye had today with the wife. I then asked if some friend went because the kids said they were going. when my daughter answered the qustion I heard my wife say tell him I can take 3 kids to the beach, I dont need anyone to go with me.

I feel like putting the D off, I also feel like getting it over with.

just got a message from my attorney that the wifes attorney has postponed the Deposisition set for tomm.

I'm glad cause I really dont want to put her through this.

depo's have been postponed. Do all of you think this is normal. I want to talk to her so bad. I really feel we can work this out. I think right now she is caught up in money, like I said, she has had around 30K given to her since July. She
works a couple of hours per day cutting hair.

She shops all of the time. Something she has always enjoyed.

Also as I said above she always brings up the same 2 instances. Is there no way she can look at the big picture. I think since she has the kids she feels like she won and knows this hurts me.
instances

but in the US, I am not aware of any state where it is a criminal offense to sleep with another man's wife or another woman's husband
I believe 21 states have criminal laws against it.
I don't believe there are any that actually prosecute though.

NEW HAMPSHIRE!!

Friend of mine divorced there, on grounds of adultery.
Her WH and OW had to testify! (I believe she brought them up on charges...not sure what the outcome of that was) But...
Divorce went quite nicely in her favor!!

NEW HAMPSHIRE!!

Friend of mine divorced there, on grounds of adultery.
Her WH and OW had to testify! (I believe she brought them up on charges...not sure what the outcome of that was) But...
Divorce Settlement went quite nicely in her favor!!

Shugah, we are in Alabama not New Hamp.

what do you think about putting off the divorce.

should I finally say I struck out divorce her,
be a weekend dad and get remarried one day.

or say screw it and move to Las Vegas, get a casino job and live out the rest of my life.

I know the wife talks bad about me to the kids.

I really dont like paying a bunch of child support that will be used for Tanning beds, getting her nails done and other stuff.

I'l quit my present job and make it hard on everyone iof this is what she wants!

Chris, I would be interested in knowing the states that have criminal statutes for criminal conversation/alienation of affection, or anything making it an offense to sleep with another person's spouse. I don't profess to be a criminal or family law attorney - just one of those corporate kind - but thought that, while a few states still recognize a civil cause of action for alienation of affection, most, including the one in which I live have abolished such criminal statutes.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

please read my last posts

BACK TO THE TOP

Here is a quick reply.

From the Washington Post after the Clinton & Lewinsky scandal.

"Because -- just for the record -- adultery is, in fact, a crime. Berra's student's instincts were inarguably right: An "extramarital affair" is illegal in the District of Columbia, where adultery is a misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of $500 or 180 days in jail. It's a misdemeanor as well in Virginia, Maryland and more than 20 other states, and a felony in Idaho, Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma and Wisconsin.

And though the law is rarely enforced, it's not never enforced: As recently as 1980, a Massachusetts couple were spotted having sex in a van and, when they admitted they were married but not to each other, arrested for adultery. The man admitted his guilt and paid a fine of $50, but the woman appealed, invoking the same right of privacy defined in landmark contraception and abortion cases. The court rejected the argument and upheld the conviction.

Closer to home, in Maryland, there's a bill in the legislature that, far from striking the state's archaic adultery law from the books, would expand the criminal definition of adultery to include extramarital affairs with partners of the same sex: If, for example, a woman leaves her husband for another woman, she could be convicted of adultery and fined the penalty of $10. This bill wasn't introduced by an anti-gay constituency; just the opposite, it was introduced to assist couples seeking to dissolve their marriage when one partner comes out of the closet. In Maryland, adultery is the only grounds for an immediate divorce; other grounds, such as desertion and separation, require a waiting period. So the effect of the bill would be to ensure that homosexual liaisons could also be used as grounds for obtaining a quick and, equally important, cheap divorce."

People, I really dont care if it's a crime.

I am asking for advice on the best methods to stop/delay or whatever you want to call it the divorce.

I am asking for your experience and what worked or did not work.

I want my marriage to be rebuilt.

I know the final decision is mine but would like to hear options or advice.

Please post the legal stuff elsewhere

Steve, I don't think anyone has any magic answers that will turn a toad into a princess. The truth is that your W is hellbent on getting a divorce and nothing you have done, Plan A or Plan B, has changed her mind. In fact, any kind gestures on your part have only seemed to make her MORE hostile and cause her to mock you.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do suspect that she would probably view a postponement as a sign of weakness and a fresh opportunity to mock you. But then, you know the situation better than any of us, so you would know best. What is your suggestion?

[ March 31, 2004, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

Steve:

FOLLOW the plans. That's all the advice I think I'm 2ualified 2 give these days.

The simple truth is that you can't make your WW do anything she isn't ready 2 or doesn't want 2. All you can control are your own actions. Plan B is designed 2 help you keep yourself under control, be yourself for yourself, and protect you from being affected by the things your W says/does.

Want 2 stall the DV? Then stall. Stay within the law, but only just. Wait until the deadlines, that kind of thing. But definitely protect yourself regarding visitation rights or custody as much as you have 2 when you have 2.

Then wait, and be prepared that DV might be the outcome anyway. It's all you can do.

-ol' 2long

I think I broke plan B, I called for the kids last night several times, they did not answer.

I called this am at 8 and the wife answers, I ask to speak with the kids and she tell me she will have them call me. I told her I called last night several times with no answer. She told me to call her cell phone. I told her I was not going to call her cell. I told her if they were not at home I was not going to bother them. I asked her to have the kids call me when they got
back to her fathers. She said no she was not going to do that.

She then started crying saying I was making her spend a lot of money on attorneys, her moms insurance money. I told her I was not making her do anything. I asked her to please stop crying and she did. I told her I was going to pick up the kids tomorrow and she said well go thing you told me. I then told her I asked the kids to tell her all week long, seem funny she hears me tell the kids to clean their room, brush thier teeth etc but dosent hear me tell the kids I will pick them up on Friday.

She then started saying how for the last 15 years she was unhappy, I told her wait till court and tell me, I told her not to listen to other people, she said I done heard bla la bla.
I told her to wait till court.

She still is under the impression I am going for custody of the kids. I have not told her I am or am not, she has made up her on mind with the help of her friends all 2 of them. She then said after 15 years of marriage all you want to give me is half the furniture, She left, I dont think she deserves that, she left, walked out, quit on me and our daughters friends and family.

I think I broke plan B, I called for the kids last night several times, they did not answer.

I called this am at 8 and the wife answers, I ask to speak with the kids and she tell me she will have them call me.
Your conversation should have stopped right there.

I then told her I asked the kids to tell her all week long,
Do not use the kids to pass on messages, even if it is only about picking up or dropping them off.

She then started saying how for the last 15 years she was unhappy, I told her wait till court and tell me,
If you don't want a divorce, don't tell her to "wait until court."
You should not be "egging" her on to court or agreeing to everything.
Simply let it stand as it is.
If she says things about going to court or the divorce, jsut tell her, "oh, okay." No need to discuss it.

The wife knows I pick them up every other week, why do I need to tell her all the time.

She acts like Im not going to pick them up, and she acts stunned when I tell her Im getting the kids. She listens to our conversations so she knows I was going to pick them up.

I am going to postpone the D until after 4/15 tax
day, she is self employed. I want to see what she claims as income. On the inerrogatories she
stated her income as 307 dollars per Month.
what a joke.

She aslo has 2 credit cards and has made late payments. I have car wash recipts for 135 each.
hand wash/wax complete detail. this is at the same car wash the Om uses for his truck all of
the time.

waiting on her cell records, I just found out the wife has subpoenaed the neighbors kid, 21 year old.
why, I have no idea..
so how bad did I blow the plan B.

I really feel like telling her and him everything I want and burning the bridge,
But I dont let her know it affects me, I talk nornmal tones, say excuse me and that is eating her up. she feels like she has wasted the last 15 years of her life.

The wife knows I pick them up every other week, why do I need to tell her all the time.
You don't need to tell her, you choose to do it.
Why?

She acts like Im not going to pick them up, and she acts stunned when I tell her Im getting the kids. She listens to our conversations so she knows I was going to pick them up.
Then why do you tell her all the time?

I am going to postpone the D until after 4/15 tax day, she is self employed. I want to see what she claims as income.
???
What does that have to do with anything?
Why would she have to show you her income after but not before the 15th?

so how bad did I blow the plan B.
You didn't "blow" Plan B. But you do need to try a bit harder a sticking to it.

CA, if I did not tel my wife I would not get to see the kids, She would leave so I could not see /get the kids. She knows the only way she can hurt me is to keep the kids from me. I call them every night. She has asked me in the past to call at 6:30, when I call she does not answer, So I call at 7 and 8. when the kids answer she stands in the back ground and says tell him to call early, hurry and get off the phone etc.

I want her to show income on her tax returns,
this will help to reduce child support, she is saying she only makes 307 per month. BS, she has lied about the money she makes, she is in a cash business, I have her appointment book, my attorney wants to know to use as leverage I guess. I also want to know if she has used my income on her credit card applications.

Bottom line is I have to tell her I am getting the kids, we have been every other weekend, if I dont say anything I will not get the kids, Just like the show I took them to Clifford, I told her for 3 weeks and the day of the show when I call she complains that I dont know your picking them up, what time etc. I did not tell her the time but she knew the day when I was pickiing them up, she knew it would be after they got out of school, she asked me if they should eat, do homework etc..

CA, if I did not tel my wife I would not get to see the kids, She would leave so I could not see /get the kids.
Why would she leave? You said she doesn’t know you are coming over.
Why don’t you go over when you know she is home?

Bottom line is I have to tell her I am getting the kids, we have been every other weekend, if I dont say anything I will not get the kids
Get a court order for visitation.

Better yet, you should be seriously considering getting custody.

[ April 01, 2004, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

I think she wants to feel like she has some sort of control over me. She dosent. The money train she is riding on is headed to the station.
Its runnig out of steam.

I told he when she left when everything was said and done I would be the only person standing or willing to help her. The om will dump her.

He has filed her head with bs for so long she has her mind made up with thoughts and there is nothing i can do to change it. She will find out in court who has been telling the truth.

I have found out she has subpoenaed 25 people.
this includes, my parents, sis in law parents , my brother and sis in law, neighbors and 2 people that lived accross the street that moved 5 plus years ago.

she also subpoeneaed someone that worked at a pharmacy that was fired for stealing Lortab 5000
plus pills.

Funny she did not subpoena the OM my ex best friend......I did though and his ex wife, only people I did. nobody else matters.

Steve:

These train wrecks happen in slow motion, you know?

While you're watching it happen, do your best NOT 2 get sucked in2 the drama. I fear you're already in 2 deep.

-2long

ok if Im in to deep how do I get out?

Going to get the kids.

I have the car tag renewal and insurance renewal.
I am going to send them to her.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 ok if Im in to deep how do I get out?

Going to get the kids.

I have the car tag renewal and insurance renewal.
I am going to send them to her. <hr /></blockquote>Steve, why are you paying for her insurance and tags? That is HER responsibility!

I had to pick the kids up, sis in law is out of town,
I found out the wifes father had heart surgery,
I called ot check on her father, the father in law answered the phone, I asked how he was doing and he said he did not want to talk to me.
5 min later the wife called yelling and screaming about me calling saying her father did not want to talk to me, I hung up. She called
back and asked why I called, I told her I wanted to see if he was doinfg ok, The wife said he was not doing well because I was making her spend a lot of money for an attorney and was trying to take her kids, I told her I was not to blame for her dads health and it was her choice to spend the money on an attorney, She started yelling again and I told her not to call and yell at me ever again and hung up, she called back, I did ot pick up the phone and she left a nice calm voice mail her father was doing well and asked me to please not call and check on him.

what a wacko she has become.

Steve:

It's this kind of nonsense phone call that I refer 2 when I say you're already in 2 deep.

Stop calling. Find an intermediary 2 remind her that you're picking up the kids.

By participating in the drama convos, you're feeding her imagination, however idiotic the reasoning might seem 2 you. The only way 2 stop is 2 stop.

-2long

looks like court D date will be put off,
Her and her attorney canceled the depositions and has said he cannot reschedule before court day.

How come it was delayed?

Because we had depositions scheduled and her attorney canceled and did not reschedule before the April 14th court date. My attorney said we
were then going to postpone the D until we could depose my wife, he really wants ot depose her since she took the 5th on the question about the affair.

Steve, what is all this deposing and stuff about? What difference will any of this make in granting a divorce? I am confused about how divorce works in your state. When I got divorced he just filed and then 6 months later we were divorced, end of story.

They wanted to interview us about our children but I declined telling them that my children were strictly my business and not theirs. Their job was to grant the divorce, mine was to parent. Can you even imagine the nerve of some court lackie scrutinizing MY parenting skills? ummm, I don't think so!

Why is it so different in your state?

For one my wife is wanting me to leave the house.
her to get all of the furnishings, 1/2 of my retirement plan and child support of nearly 1k per month.

My wife is saying she only makes 300 per month.

We are wanting to prove she earns more, lock her into a story, that she has no money that the OM has not been helping her etc. then at the Div.
hearing prove where OM has provided for her and where she can afford 130 doaalr car wash etc.

This will allow me to keep the house, not have to give her 1/2 of my 401k, and she can take
at least 1/2 of the credit card debt she ran up.

there are other legal issues also that once she
tells her story in the deposition if she tells a different story in court then she will be caught
telling a lie. this helps me. I want the house and all of the contents and my 401k and kids.

we are going to ask about her DR shopping and her reasons for all the pills etc she has been taking and why she went to 3 Dr;s on 3 different days and got pain pills.

I gotcha, Steve! So you are trying to get the kids?

Do you think she is running scared in all this?

for sure, because I dont tell her anything, why do think she has been calling all my friends.
the ONLY thing she can say is I yell at my kids sometimes. But heck show me 1 parent that dosent.

I am a VERY good father, thats why I have some of my daughters teachers willing to write letters or testify as to my well being.

Im not worried about a Damn thing. I would like my family together. I dont want to crush my wife because I love her, I have been totally reactive in this whole thing.

the only time I made a first move was to go talk to an attorney that the OM was Using. I went there so my wife could not use him. i never told her. She came to me telling me what a sorry
SOB I was for going to an attorney. I left the attorney she has now alsone because he is Very expensive and has a very bad reputation with all other attorney's. That right where she went and has since complained to me I should be ashmed of
making her spend a lot of money for the divorce.

I simply told her dont blame me and hung up the phone.

Just found out the wife went to our bank and was telling all of the tellers I was not giving her money and I was defrauding our homeowners insurance company, we had a hail storm and several houses on the street were damaged.

The wife did not know that I use this bank and bring the tellers TCBY just to surprise them.

Wife also told them I was forging her name on checks and tax return.

I think wife is going crazy.

found out wife went to another bank and was telling them how much she has spent on attorney, whil there one of the tellers was emailing me telling me what she was saying, I was talking to the kids on Easter and the oldest daughter, said hold on a minute, when she come back to the phone she said" Daddy, mommy said she did not want you to come by here today" I told my Daughter not to repeat stuff like that. Told thm I loved them and good bye.

I use this bank and bring the tellers TCBY just to surprise them.
Uh, why are you bringing TCBY to tellers?
These are all male tellers, correct?
Cause of course you wouldn't be doing anything like this with women since you are still married.

I think wife is going crazy.
Perhaps she's already there?

I was talking to the kids on Easter and the oldest daughter, said hold on a minute, when she come back to the phone she said" Daddy, mommy said she did not want you to come by here today" I told my Daughter not to repeat stuff like that.
Be very careful about what you are telling your kids. This puts puts them in a very confusing circumstance. Mom says one thing and Dad says another. You are forcing them to choose sides.

Simply tell them, "oh, thanks for telling me" and leave it at that.
Discuss with your wife about using the kids to pass messages. Don't argue about it.
If she continues to do that, then simply reply to her about what the kids ask.

You are trying to get custody, aren't you?

[ April 15, 2004, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

Come on bringing someone TCBY is bad, they are all married. Ive been going to the bank for years. NOTHING IS THERE, dont imply anything.
Whats wrong with being nice. Thats all.
If I said I tipped my hair dresser would that be wrong too?

Also how can I talk to my wife if in paln B,
you say dont say a word now your telling me to have discussions with her.

Seems like there is no way in the world to do this because it sounds like a lot of should have would have could have. Monday morning quaterbacking.

I simply asked my daughter to not repeat something, not choose sides.

Steve:

...um... what's a TCBY? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"If I said I tipped my hair dresser would that be wrong too?"

Which? Tipping the hair dresser or a big manly-man like yourself having your hair "dressed?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry for the humor if you're not up for it now. I see your difficult si2ation, Steve. It's hard 2 know when answering simple 2uestions is appropriate and when it's not. When it gets you in2 trouble, or when you can get a simple one-word answer.

I hope you're coping okay, though.

-2long

Where I live, the guys go to the barber shop or cut their own hair with a pocket knife! Course, we have guys named Bubba and the mullet is still in style. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TCBY=The Countries Best Yogurt=frozen yogurt place comparable to DQ or Baskin Robbins. (Don’t know if it really is or not.)

Come on bringing someone TCBY is bad, they are all married.
So it’s okay to bring gifts to married women?

Ive been going to the bank for years. NOTHING IS THERE, dont imply anything.
I was not implying anything. It’s a simple fact that it is inappropriate behavior for a married man to bring gifts to other married women.

Whats wrong with being nice.
Nothing. But it is not appropriate because you and they are married.

Thats all.
I am not suggesting you are trying to start an affair or anything like that.
But that is how 90% of affairs DO start. And since your marriage is on the rocks, you are extremely vulnerable. One of the top Marriage Builders rules is to NOT put yourself into situations which are directly

If I said I tipped my hair dresser would that be wrong too?
No, but hairdressing is a job where tipping is expected.

Also how can I talk to my wife if in paln B,
you say dont say a word now your telling me to have discussions with her.
I didn’t write that you should have “discussions”. Keep it short & simple.
You need to do everything to keep the kids from being in the middle.

I simply asked my daughter to not repeat something, not choose sides.
I know you did not come right out and ask her to choose sides.
But her Mom is telling her one thing and her Dad is telling her something different.
By doing this, (both of) you are forcing her decide who she should listen to.
She didn’t ask to get put into this situation. It’s up to YOU to make it clear that she does not have to choose sides and it’s up to YOU to make it as easy as possible since your wife is not willing to do it.

How is the custody issue coming along? When you do get custody, most of this will not be an issue.

Chris, it is because he doesn't want to put his daughters in the middle that he tells them not to pass on messages for the mother. She was sending the girls with messages like "I need money for XYZ and you better pay!" He has told the girls in the past to tell their mother to call him directly about these issues instead of passing these messages on.

I realize that.
But since SHE has decided to not play by the rules, he has to adapt.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
 I realize that.
But since SHE has decided to not play by the rules, he has to adapt. <hr /></blockquote>But I think he has by discouraging them to pass on messages. If he accepts their message, he is affirming her attempt to bring them into the middle. By telling them not to pass on messages, they know they don't have to be involved and that it is between the parents.

Thanks Mel for taking up for me a little, I think CA just wants to get my engine reved up.

TCBY is frozen yogert, How in the world can you call this a gift? thats insane. Im married and so are they, so get off my *#$&$ back about that. Like I said it is called being nice.
If they were men I would do the same thing. I bring doughnuts to work. I have stopped by Mcdonalds and bought biscuits for everyone.Men and women
its called being nice to men and Women.
no other meaning at all.

Hair dresser, barber what ever you call it I dont care, My wife cut hair(that was her Job) she called it hair Dresser. she cut mine for the last 17years. Now a guy cuts it, with clippers a little longer than military, and guess what I tip him. no big deal.

Fine example of her tweaking me, Im talking to my daughter and wife comes in the back ground and says why is daddy calling so late? then stands there and says hurry and get off the phone
you have to go to bed.

So CA what do I do now. I dont say a word unless the kids start to ask then and only then do I tell them not to repeat that.

I checked the mail tonight and found where the sife went to yet another Doc. dont know what type of Doc they are. I am going to check in the am. so let me make this clear, I am going to see if this doctor is a Family type doctor or Orth.
I am going to find his specialty. I hate being defensive but kinda feel like I have to be.

Had a reply done but it didn’t take. AARRGGHH!!!

Thanks Mel for taking up for me a little, I think CA just wants to get my engine reved up.
If I wanted to rev your engine, you would know it.
I’m simply trying to get you to understand and use Marriage Builders ™ principles correctly.

TCBY is frozen yogert, How in the world can you call this a gift?
Because it is. You are doing it “to surprise them”. Why would you want to surprise the bank tellers? (That could be dangerous. It is a bank…)
Have you ever heard the phrase, “it’s the little things that count”?
It’s not how many diamonds or trips you give your wife, it’s the “thank you Honey” and the telephone call in the middle of the day to say “Hi, I love you” that really count.

Im married and so are they, so get off my *#$&$ back about that.
Which is exactly why you should NOT be doing it. MB explains this type of behavior is inappropriate for a married individual, ESPECIALLY when they are separated due to an affair.

Like I said it is called being nice.
But it is FAR more than the average person does for bank tellers. Why can’t you just say, “Thank you. Have a good day.”?

If they were men I would do the same thing.
But they aren’t men.

I bring doughnuts to work. I have stopped by Mcdonalds and bought biscuits for everyone.Men and women
its called being nice to men and Women.
As long as it’s an evenly mixed group, not a problem.

no other meaning at all.
I didn’t write or imply you had any other meaning.

Now a guy cuts it, with clippers a little longer than military, and guess what I tip him. no big deal.
Correct. But you are expected to tip a hair dresser/barber, not a teller.

If you don’t want to use MB principles, then that is your decision.
But if you do want to use them, then these forums are to discuss them so you can learn and apply them correctly.

Fine example of her tweaking me, Im talking to my daughter and wife comes in the back ground and says why is daddy calling so late? then stands there and says hurry and get off the phone you have to go to bed.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO GET CUSTODY?!?!?!

Steve:

I dunno. I do have 2 side with you on the yogurt thang. IN THIS INSTANCE, and only FROM WHAT I KNOW (or think I know).

There's always a matter of degree 2 these sorts of things. On one extreme, you could not say a word 2 the tellers, even avoid eye contact. Would that be in keeping with MB principles? It might, I don't know. But I wouldn't worry about it either. At least not 2 much. Just be on guard about how you feel when you do that. Also, watch the reactions you get. it's always dangerous 2 assume you know what other people are thinking, but if your "gift" were perceived as flirting, you can tell, if you're perceptive enough. And if it is, you SHOULD back off. Politely.

I also think you need 2 get a humor injection. I usually try not 2 laugh at my own jokes, but the one about a man getting his hair "dressed" was pretty darned funny, IMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

The ONLY reason I used the hair dresser is because that what I heard my wife call it for 17 years. Dosent matter to me. I do see the humor
there. enough about all that.

There was no flirting of any kind associated with the TCBY,

too many what if's and editing everything I say. I put up with this BS from my wife.

I called the wife in the middle of the day
tons of times, called and got her to meet me for lunch. Wrote love letters etc. told her millions of times How great she was and how lucky I was that she was my wife. I let her go where ever and when ever she wanted. Looks like I let it happen to myself, more or less opened the door.

I had the kids this weekend and had a blast, wife tried to call sat afternoon. The kids and I were outside, then Sunday night before I brought the kids home she called and said " when are you going to bring MY kids home. I told her to refer to them as our kids since she did not have them by herself. I heard from the neighbors daughter that the wife was seen shopping (imagine that)
with the OM last Wed around noon. The kids tell me mommy does not cut hair anymore. That is her profession.
When I took the kids back last night at 9pm wife was sitting outside talking on the phone. I told the kids I loved them and left without saying a word. Distance was 50' plus I had Sis in law with me. Oh, wait is this a lb since she is a married woman?

There was no flirting of any kind associated with the TCBY
I never even suggested that was happening.
Just that Steve Harley told me to stay away from those situations EVEN if there was no intention of getting too friendly.

too many what if's and editing everything I say. I put up with this BS from my wife.
If our suggestions that you follow Marriage Builders are bs, why do you ask questions here?

I brought the kids home she called and said " when are you going to bring MY kids home. I told her to refer to them as our kids since she did not have them by herself.
Why are you being confrontational with her? That is not Plan A or Plan B.

When I took the kids back last night
How is the custody issue coming along?

at 9pm wife was sitting outside talking on the phone. I told the kids I loved them and left without saying a word. Distance was 50' plus I had Sis in law with me. Oh, wait is this a lb since she is a married woman?
I don’t understand? Who would it be a Lovebuster to?

Do you just want to be sarcastic or do you want to learn, understand and use Marriage Builders principles properly?

I am working on the mb stuff, I have held my tounge. I am asking for some guidence not to be
micro managed so to speak. The reason I talked about having the kids back at 9 is because for the past 8 - 10 time I brought them back she has called and complained about the time. She knows I bring them home at the same time when I have them. I am just getting tired of being berated by her. Maybe I am getting defensive. CA is there ever a time to say the heck with it?
Just so you will know I would loose every friend I have, probably 50 or so if my wife came back. If this is what it would take.

I am the most easy going care free person you will ever meet, this is no lie. I have had 20 to 30 of wifes customers call me and tell me wife is nuts for leaving me and she will be back one day.
Guess I have to be patient

steve:

"is there ever a time to say the heck with it?"

Sure there is. And it's when YOU want 2, not her. But I don't think you're ready 2 do that yet.

"Just so you will know I would loose every friend I have, probably 50 or so if my wife came back. If this is what it would take."

Huh? Why would you lose your friends? I would think that the friends worth keeping would admire you for standing by your M, regardless of how your W is behaving right now.

"I am the most easy going care free person you will ever meet, this is no lie. I have had 20 to 30 of wifes customers call me and tell me wife is nuts for leaving me and she will be back one day.
Guess I have to be patient."

It's vir2uous 2 be patient. You don't have 2 be, but it's good that you have chosen 2 be.

Look, ol' 2long knows how hard it is 2 be patient. Sometimes I feel like a chump, sometimes I feel like quitting, but every time I take time 2 calm down, I feel better about remaining patient.

Just don't get complacent. Growth from now on will be a life-long process.

best,
-ol' 2long

I am asking for some guidence not to be
micro managed so to speak.
Remember that MB is NOT only how to deal with your spouse.
It is also your own actions and things which may not directly involve your wife.

CA is there ever a time to say the heck with it?
Yeah. But do it because you no longer want to be married to her, not because you are tired of it all.

Just so you will know I would loose every friend I have, probably 50 or so if my wife came back
If they would abandon you because you want to save your marriage, then they are not really true friends.

you two are right, I am not ready to call it quits, Sure Im tired of all the drama. I have moved on. Just tonight while talking to the kids the wife was in the background saying Daddy doesnt want to talk to me anymore. The kids had me on a speaker phone. I ignored her. the kids had to go and the wife said she would have them call me later.
just waiting now.
Neighbors daughter was told by friend they saw wife and OM at shopping mall together. Do I mention this to wife?

Neighbors daughter was told by friend they saw wife and OM at shopping mall together. Do I mention this to wife?
Why would you mention it?This would simply add to all the drama you are tired of.

As I have repeatedly asked you, what are you doing toget custody?

gathering information regarding all the prescripption drugs she has been taking. I have insurance service summary reports each time she visited a DR. family med doctors several days apart, Pain management Dr, Orthpedic Dr. OBGYN,
Radiologist, etc....13 different Dr's since July 1. She has been prescribed, Lortab, Darvocet, SOma, Phenigan, Midran and 2 Anti dep.'s plus all kinds of Sinus Med. Cell phone records, checking account records,
she was having them sent to OM's PO box. She listed the cell phone he provided her as the emergency contact number at the kids school.

Hey Steve, just read the last 5 pages of posts in this thread. I was following along a couple months ago while I was deployed overseas and just got back caught up.

You asked why she plead the 5th on the question of if she had an affair? Because she obviously did and answering no would be perjury (no big deal if your the president but for normal folks it could be a problem). If she answers YES well Alabama is a fault divorce state and answering YES will force the judge to find her AT FAULT and therfore you will win big. So her only option is to plead the 5th and hope for the best.

I advised you a few months ago to hire a private investigator to get concrete, photographic evidence of her affair. I hope you did but if not it is still a good idea as long as you can get it done before the court date. This would practically guarantee proof of her affair especially when backed up by the cell phone records. Cell phone records alone are not enough! Believe me I've been through it. They can BS about it all day that it's just a friend and they weren't talking about relationships, etc. etc. And in a courtroom you have to have PROOF!!

I also suggested you go to Radio Shack and spend $50 to record some of the phone converstaions you had with your kids where she was yelling and saying crazy things in the background that are unhealthy for young kids to be exposed to. I hope you did that because that will be strong evidence that she is an unfit parent and benefit you in getting custody.

The reason she is calling so many witnesses is because her case is weak and it's desparation. You should actually call 3 witnesses - the 2 you mentioned and the PI. If you have evidence of her affair and unhealthy actions around your kids the judge will see her as grasping for straws and desparate. If you do all this and it goes to court, you win and it's going to be a shut out. She will be found at fault, you get the house, kids, nearly all the belongings, your retirement fund and she ends up owing YOU for child support.

Then after the divorce is final, you file a lawsuit against her and the OM for your legal expenses and you sue the OM for emotional pain and distress and for breaking up your marriage. Don't let it end with them walking all over you.

I want to see you win Steve (of course the real winners are the lawyers) but you have to make sure the court finds HER AT FAULT not YOU. You have to put aside your feelings for her and think about what is best for you and your kids. In case the Plan A/B thing doesn't work you have to protect yourself. Always plan for the worst but hope for the best.

[ April 20, 2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Layerr3 ]

I called for the kids last night, the wife answers and says they have gone to church with the neighbor she has only knomn since July. I said will you please have them call me when they get back, she said it will be late, I then said that is OK I want to see how their day went. The wife then said the neighbor is going to have a birthday party for her kids and wanted to know If I would allow our daughters to come to it, I told her no problem, the wife then said the neighbor does not want you to come over. No problem I told her. Then the wife said Oh let me tell you, ****** said you were talking about me shopping at the mall with OM, I then stopped her and said Please have the girls call me when they get back, good bye and hung up.

The wife then called right back I let the answering machine do it's job, She left a message, she said lets not
be mean to each other, I would rather you say you dont want to talk about it than hang up on me
see if you can be nice if thats possible.

The kids called later that night.

THe wife also got a call from one of my friends
and was rambling about how she wanted to make it easy on me when she left, how I would not just accept the fact she wanted out, but now she wants it all. The wife then started crying to my friend saying she just wished it was all over.

The friend call and let me know. All I told them was Hate to hear that. She made up her mind this is what she wanted. Friend said I agree.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gblogbd:
 The wife then said the neighbor is going to have a birthday party for her kids and wanted to know If I would allow our daughters to come to it, I told her no problem, the wife then said the neighbor does not want you to come over. <hr /></blockquote>Excuse me? How obnoxious and rude. Why would you not be able to attend?

the neighbor is a friend of the wifes that used to come over and stay at our house all the time because of the pool. She used to complain about her husband. Now she does not talk to me at all, after the wife first left I knew she met the wife out for dinner, I asked what I should do, the neighbor also listened to me and friends talk and would go tell my wife. this is the same neighbor I done electrical work for when they needed it and plumbing work and put up chain link fence for, and on and on and on, her husband cannot do anything by himself.

I dont need to be there, I thought it to be very petty as well, I take the kids to get doughnuts and have them take the neighbors kids the extras, also when the neighbors kids are outside and the Icecream truck comes buy, I buy them icecream......I cant help her acting like a Bit**, really not my concern.

OK I messed up, I got a call from school that our daughter was not feeling well and need to picked up. I had them call the wife since I was at work, the only way they got somebody was due to the fact I had the home phone forwarded to my cell. I then called the school back to see if they had contacted the wife and they told me her father was going to pick up our daughter.

I called and asked the wife if she talked to the school nurse, the wife said she was on the way to pick up our daughter, I told her she was lying to me the school said her father was.
Wife then told me it dosent matter, I told her if it didnot matter then why did she lie,

She said she did not have to tell me anything, I
asked her if she could ever tell the truth again, she said yes, I said ok then how long have you been F***ing the OM. She did not deny anything. I called her a liar and told her goodbye, she called later to tell me about the daughter. I said fine and talked to the kids like always, court date is now set for July 21, cant wait. I found out wife has been to 2 more doctors in the mean time and was at the DR office today when I called.

please read last 2 posts.

D date reset for July 21, nothing has slowed her down at all. Just last night she was in the back ground telling the kids ask Daddy ........I just told them not to repeat what mommy said. Like I said I LB'd the other day but got right back on track.
Please read above 2 or 3 posts as well.

I called and asked the wife if she talked to the school nurse, the wife said she was on the way to pick up our daughter, I told her she was lying to me the school said her father was.
Was this the om going to pick up your daughter?
If so, you MUST go to the school immediately and inform them that NO ONE is allowed to pick up your child except you and your wife.

Are your kids being exposed to the om at all?
If so, have you filed for a court order to get custody (or something to NOT allow omn around them)?

no it was just about as bad, it was her father who never spent time with his daughter or only grandchildren, out of 9 birthdays for oldest D he
came to 2 birthdays and 1 for the 6 year old.
Christmas he and mother in law would drop of presents and mother in law would bring back gifts wife/daughter bought for her. I found them several times and put the returned gifts in the attic to keep my wife. Her daughter form finding them and crushing her spirits. This later happened anyway when the mother in law would call and tell daughter what she done. Why I have no idea.
I dont know if wife sees om around kids, I know
she was seen shopping and OM was there.
The kids know this.

And you're gonna allow this guy to pick up your kids from school?

right now my hands are tied, I have found out she has had one of her friends pick my kids up, a neighbor of her fathers where she is staying and of course her father. I am not told of any of this except for the kids, they will tell me after the fact. I do not ask who picks them up.

The only reason I knew this time was the school told me, the wife had 2 cell numbers listed as emergency numbers. 1 of the cell numbers was furnished to her by the OM, the other I was paying for until she gave it back to me and told me she had her own so I had it turned off last
August. I have the emergency contact sheet from the school with OM's cell number on it. I will use this in court.

Wife has my parents listed but will never call them for any reason. I am not listed on the forms any where, its as though I do not exist.

right now my hands are tied
No, they are not.

I am not listed on the forms any where, its as though I do not exist.
You can go to the school and change the info. Put on them that NO ONE except you and wife (and anyone else you agree to) can pick up kids.She cannot legally keep you from picking them up unless she has a court order or has sole legal custody.

Quit messing around with this issue with your kids. DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO PROTECT THEM!

I was speaking with our daughters when my wifes father comes to them and says" get off the phone and get in the bathtub" The kids then put me on the speaker phone and I told her father not to speak to them that way. He then replied I will speak to them any @@@@ way I want in my house. I
told him not if I come over there you will do nothing of the sort, he then said bring you @@@ over. I then ignored him for the time being. I will remind him of this July 22nd the day after our D. The wife got on the phone ranting, I told her he is not going to speak to the kids the way he did. I told her it was her, that needed to tell the kids to get off the phone and get in the
bathtub not her father. She then started ranting and told me how her mother died.....this was in September. I told her that was not a reason for her dad to tell the kids anything. I found a piece of paper with the OM's address on it.
The wife was also in another car wreck, this time it was someone elses fault. the kids were not with the wife.

Quit messing around with this issue with your kids. DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO PROTECT THEM!

How is the court order for custody coming along?

Hey Steve, you still here? What's the latest?