I suppose the topic line says it all. JL, I know you must be disappointed after all the posting you did for me.

Are there any other WS around here whose S does not know about the A(s)? Have you been able to make progress in the marriage without telling? Have you been able to personally come to terms with everything? Do you have any advice for me?

I know there are plenty of you that will want to tell me why I should tell. I know your reasons are valid and your motives for telling me those reasons are good ones, to help. There is no reason for you to take the time to convince me, I do not want to waste anyone's time or energy. You all have enough to deal with. But if there is anyone out there that is choosing the same route I am choosing, to take it to my grave, I would love to hear from you.

Here is where I am at right now (at age 40, H is 43). I want to stay married. I want to satisfy my H's needs. I want to consistently not do any LBs. I want him to be a happy, fufilled person. I want my kids to have a stable happy environment to grow up in (they are 9yr boy, 14yr girl). I want all those same things for me.

Here is where the marriage (of 17.5 yrs) is right now. OK, I guess that is my problem. I don't know if I can really answer that question.

Seems silly to post this now, but since I have been trying to figure out what to post since I came back from vacation on tuesday, I'm just going to put this out there anyway.

It's hard for you all to answer my request for "Help!!" when I cannot even figure out what I need help with. All I know is I feel sad, sad that this marriage was so bad for so long, sad that i got to a point where all i wanted was out, sad that I stayed that way for over 2yrs, doing things that i don't know how to recover from now.

<small>[ February 19, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL,

So I guess the question is what have you Finally Learned? How is what you feel squaring with what you want in your life? Do you have a plan to get your relationship with your H to a place that you both enjoy it?

I know you are making a big mistake. It is my hope that it is NOT fatal to your marriage. The real problem is how are you going to get your H to work on the marriage when he doesn't know what has happened?

You said a few things that I thought I would respond to </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is where the marriage (of 17.5 yrs) is right now. OK, I guess that is my problem. I don't know if I can really answer that question.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why can't you answer it? Did you enjoy your vacation with your H and the kids? Did you have troubles reconnecting with H? What is causing your inability to answer that question? Why not ask your H the same question? Tell him you HONESTLY want to know what he feels because you would like to make the marriage better for him. In another words, make it worth his while to provide you information.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seems silly to post this now, but since I have been trying to figure out what to post since I came back from vacation on tuesday, I'm just going to put this out there anyway.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So why not post your plan for recovering you marriage?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's hard for you all to answer my request for "Help!!" when I cannot even figure out what I need help with. All I know is I feel sad, sad that this marriage was so bad for so long, sad that i got to a point where all i wanted was out, sad that I stayed that way for over 2yrs, doing things that i don't know how to recover from now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What things don't you know how to recover from? Has it crossed your mind that if you were sad your H was too? He very likely pulled away to avoid your sadness, but it is very unlikely that he was happy if you were NOT happy.

You know the old saying: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is such a waste that you lost two years fooling around and being sad when things could have been address, but they need to be addressed now. So I ask again what is your plan?

How are you going to get H involved in your plan? How are you going to improve communications with H?
What are his strengths?
What does he value?
What do you think his goals are?

Figure these things out and then you might be able to put together a plan. I have been containing myself pretty well don't you think? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have NOT said that you should be honest with him so that he knows what he is up against, have I?

Must go, but start to think about a plan.

God Bless,

JL

jl, i just spent almost 2hrs trying to post. i just cannot get it down without it being a novel. i cannot sort this out. kids are waking up for school now, i have to get to making breakfast.

the vacation was nice. everything is fine. i was a bit emotional when we first got back in town, probably just not enough sleep.

I am in therapy right now for my infidelity. My W and I have separated too. When she found out about what I did, I was completely honest. My W told me the other day, "I wish you had lied to me the night I found out". Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My psychologist told me that (and this shocked me at first, being a very open and honest person) sometimes, honesty can be selfish. I guess his thinking is that YOU would experience a great sense of relief just "getting that off your back". But - what you are doing is throwing it onto your H's back. And now he bears the brunt of the pain, hurt, anger, despair and all that... Which, when I thought about it, IS very selfish behavior, and I guess that's why my W wished I had lied about my transgression instead of "coming clean". Is it worth it to clear your conscience at the expense of your H's? Isn't that what you're struggling with? I know Harley would disagree with my take (and my therapist's), but sometimes I think Harley's world is just too perfect for the "real world". That's not to say I don't agree with his core marriage concepts, because I do agree. But I've come to see that honesty and openness - about PAST incidents - can be "overrated", I suppose you could say.

What I would do, is from this point forward in your life, be as open and honest as possible with your H, but I would not reveal past, damaging incidents to him. If you're truly ready to turn over a new leaf and improve your marriage, then you DO need to start following the MB concept on H&O today and every day from here on out.

JMHO. Best wishes.

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: asb3pe ]</small>

FL -

I am new here, but I have followed your story for a while now. I was so hopeful that you had come to a decision, and I had such confidence that you were doing the right thing, for the right reasons.

As a BS, I can only tell you that your behavior is probably confusing the heck out of your H. He may even think your behavior towards him and in general are his fault. Before my WH told me about his A, I knew. I knew something was wrong! I don't think you can be with someone for that long and not be able to tell when something has shifted in the R.

Please find your courage again. Read your old posts and try and get your head back where it was before your vacation. I implore you, on behalf of your H. You are cheating you both out of happiness. Do NOT underestimate your H and his feelings for you. It seems to me that is what you are doing. You have already taken so many decisions out of his hands. He has rights, too.

I am not trying to guilt you. I am sorry. I know it takes so much to tell, when you feel there is so much to lose. I just think your perspective is off on what you are losing. Does that make sense? Listen to these learned people! They are wise. Follow and trust them, when you are in such turmoil and doubt.

Sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the trees, and my impression is that that is where you are. Stuck in the trees.

Love, Amy

ASB,
I understand that you believe that this will work. I am very concerned that you are giving the advice to use MB principals and be honest "from this point on"... that is not honesty, it is concealing the truth and trying to rebuild a marriage based on lies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Finally learning had made it clear that she is not MB principals are just being tossed out the window here and I will not (as she requested) try to convince her otherwise.

Yeah, I admit to being a bit confused myself. When my W is telling me she "wishes I had lied" to her, and when my therapist is telling me that "we all carry secrets to the grave", and "honesty can be selfish"...

Perhaps I need a new therapist. Again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Perhaps I need a new W too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm sorry if I've added to the confusion for you, FinallyLearning...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong>

Here is where I am at right now (at age 40, H is 43). I want to stay married. I want to satisfy my H's needs. I want to consistently not do any LBs. I want him to be a happy, fufilled person. I want my kids to have a stable happy environment to grow up in (they are 9yr boy, 14yr girl). I want all those same things for me.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But what does HE want? Would he want to be married to someone who had an affair? Shouldn't he have the right to make that choice or do you intend on keeping him hostage in a sham marriage based on a lie?

Isn't it a little cruel and manipilative to keep someone fraudulently tied to you? A marriage based on fraud and deceit is destined to failure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by asb3pe:
<strong> I am in therapy right now for my infidelity. My W and I have separated too. When she found out about what I did, I was completely honest. My W told me the other day, "I wish you had lied to me the night I found out". Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My psychologist told me that (and this shocked me at first, being a very open and honest person) sometimes, honesty can be selfish. I guess his thinking is that YOU would experience a great sense of relief just "getting that off your back". But - what you are doing is throwing it onto your H's back. And now he bears the brunt of the pain, hurt, anger, despair and all that... Which, when I thought about it, IS very selfish behavior, and I guess that's why my W wished I had lied about my transgression instead of "coming clean". Is it worth it to clear your conscience at the expense of your H's? Isn't that what you're struggling with? I know Harley would disagree with my take (and my therapist's), but sometimes I think Harley's world is just too perfect for the "real world". That's not to say I don't agree with his core marriage concepts, because I do agree. But I've come to see that honesty and openness - about PAST incidents - can be "overrated", I suppose you could say.

What I would do, is from this point forward in your life, be as open and honest as possible with your H, but I would not reveal past, damaging incidents to him. If you're truly ready to turn over a new leaf and improve your marriage, then you DO need to start following the MB concept on H&O today and every day from here on out.

JMHO. Best wishes. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sufdb....There are lots of incompetent therapists (and doctors, and lawyers, and accountants...etc.) out there...so what? Certainly one can use honesty in a hurtful way, how you are honesty, twisting honesty, etc. But we are not talking about that here....and your wife did not want you to keep the secret, that was just a reaction to the pain....if she really did, then she is as screwed up as you supposedly were...why would anyone deliberately seek a dysfunctional marriage? (which is what any marriage with this kind of secret automatically is....dysfunctional).

Finally learning, this really boils down to the same simple stuff behind all behavioiral choices. You want to manipulate your H and kids, for your own benefit (keeping the life you think you want....now)....that makes you a dangerous person. You are stealing your H right to make decisions about his own life....All this angst is about you, that makes you a narcissist (or at least acting like one), using your H and kids as an excuse to decieve them. You are also seeking to avoid the natural consequences of your actions...which is what all murderers, thieves, pedofiles, and such ilk do as well.... You can hide or you can grow and learn from lifes experiences, but what you can't do is escape. Keeping the secret will destroy your marriage, seriously injure your kids, debilitate your own well-being, and ripple on through the generations. You cannot hide such things FL, it oozes from your every pore, it is in your every action, it is already poisoning your life and you cannot stop it ever, eventually it will literally kill you (shorten your lifespan, depriving your presence to kids and grandkids...that is the biochemical effect of such things on ones physical health).....but you can take the antidote...honesty.

fl...I can't confess, so where does that leave me?

sufdb....giving your family a death sentence.


There is no gaurantee the marriage would survive, that isn't the reason for honesty....what honesty is about is making recovery possible for all parties, including the marriage....deception just gaurantees a crippled marriage at best, an possibly much worse.

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

ok, my last post was not at all helpful, i suppose neither was the original one that started this topic. i am ready to try again...

(JL, yes i did notice you held back some, thanks)

so what exactly has happend to make me change my mind back to the not telling decision? first of all, the vacation really was nice. it was not perfect, different people got tired at various times, myself included. no one was perfect in their behaviour, no one was terrible. different people did not always want to do what the others were doing (i.e my son did not want to go on a lot of rides my daughter wanted to go on, my husband didn't enjoy discovery cove as much as the rest of us, my daughter didn't want to go to the playground areas that my son wanted to be at, i can't think of what i didn't want to do cuz actually i wanted to do it all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i am just like that, my husband even told me at one point that he admires how easily i seem to be able to enjoy anything. this was his response to trying to understand why i get frustrated at others for not going along with suggestions. which, i suppose, is my problem, i wanted everyone else to want to do it all too and got frustrated at the kids when they grumbled.) but we had lots of laughs. my H was true to his word and got up everyday when the alarm went off. he is known for not wanting to get up early and this has been a sore spot on past vacations, including the last time we all went to disney together. i expressed my appreciation for that effort very much. i gave everyone a foot massage every night just before bed, we did soooo much walking. i also arranged nap time for my husband on 2 of the days by taking the kids to the water park on my own. and i sincerly had no problem with that, i was the one to recommend it. and my husband was very appreciative of that.

so what is my problem? internally i had to watch myself, i had to actively work on enjoying being with my husband. but that is to be expected, right? it is understandable that i have to work on not letting my old view of him subconciously effect my current view of him. for quite some time now i have prayed each night for the ability to continue to heal old wounds and just focus on the future. and i did the same thing while in disney. maybe the thought of having to do that even during a vacation worries me. but it is understandable, isn't it??

our trip home was a little stressful, we were late, almost missing our flight but arrived to find the flight was delayed. we got home late and had to be at school and work the next day. true to my word, i let my husband sleep in and i was in charge of getting kids to school, true to their word, the kids were extremely great about getting up (husband would of prefered taking an earlier flight, we had a family vote, the 3 of us wanted more time at disney so it was agreed, kids would have to get up without complaint and i would be the one to get them out the door allowing H to sleep in).

they got to school, i got to work and i think the lack of sleep finally caught up to me. that coupled with having to be back at work, at a job i really don't want to be at anymore. (i am wanting to change careers to a HS math teacher, i have found an excellent accelerate program to get my certificate but have put the plans on hold for now because family needs my income too much, H has not been able to find steady job, he is a freelance photographer, has been for about 9 yrs. but that work is not lucrative enough. however, having him home has been great for the family. now that the kids are both in school, that need is not there as much. H and I are struggling with if and when we can afford to have my salary go down at this point, of course that is a whole other story!!).

if there was anything on the trip that bugged me, (besides having to mentally work on enjoying his company at times) it was a memory of a cruise he and i took for our 5th anniversary that kept trying to creep into my brain. on that trip, he would never get up very early with me. i am a morning person, he is a night person. i really wanted to see a sunrise, he would not do it. i watched that sunrise alone and felt so extremely lonley. although, i will say, the sunrise was amazing to watch, to see a new day starting. he said a sunrise is no different than a sunset, but it really is very different. anyway, i also had breakfast alone each morning, well with the other 5 people assigned to the table. and it became a running joke of the table. each night my H would say, I'll be here for breakfast tommorow, but he never did. each morning i would go alone(i need a good breakfast). it was a joke to everyone, well everyone but me, i was sad about it, i never showed it though, (at least not in a direct way, i have to wonder now if i showed it indirectly. instead i would bring him food back with me every morning, eggs benedict, and then he would wake up and eat in the cabin while i kept him company.

so what have i finally learned JL? I have to be honeset, i have to show myself to him, good and bad. but the problem is, he does not want to see the bad!!! he wants everything to just be smooth sailing. whenever i express any sort of neg feeling he takes it personally, gets defensive and mad/aggrevated with me. he won't let me show him everything about me. yesterday, i stayed home in the morning, took a conf call from home and when it ended i asked him to lay down with me for a little bit. between wed, our first full day home and then, the sadness of how much bad stuff went on between us took hold of me. i am sure the lack of sleep didn't help, i just kept thinking about the cruise and i felt like if i could just express it to him i would feel better. the place i feel safest to talk to him about my feelings is laying down in bed, in his arms, i know he knew something was bothering me, as i tried to figure out how to say it the right way, he fell asleep. and i just ended up feeling even worse. i got up cuz i had to get to work, he got up with me and as i was literally walking out the door he said something about you still seem sad, i hope you get to feeling better. and i broke into tears, "why didn't you ask me what it was about, why did you fall asleep when you knew i had something on my mind?" no good answer, except he guesses he was just still tired from the trip. this is not the first time that has happened, his mind cannot deal with anything negative sometimes, he just shuts down and falls asleep. so i get in car and then the really big tears come while i'm driving. i call him on the cell and tell him what was bothering me, that i don't want to focus on the past but the truth is i was just feeling sad about our past and i told him specifically about the cruise memories. was it wrong of me to tell him that? i just needed some reassurance right then, that we, the couple, not just the family, really are on a better path right now. i realize that i didn't actually tell him that specifically, i did not tell him what i needed was some reassurance that we are ok. he just listened and said well i hope you get to feeling better, i'm sure lunch with sylvia (a co-worker) will cheer you up. so last night was we were pretty distant. did i put this wall up?? i feel like i just need to be stronger, i have to get better at letting go of the past and just move forward.

melodylane, what my H wants is for all the turmoil that has occured over the last few years to be over. he does not want us to not go back to how our marriage was before, he agrees neither of us did a very good job at being in this relationship. he just wants to have stabilty and progress moving forward. he sees no reason for this to not be able to happen. "we both messed up a lot, we both know it, we both are working on being better partners, we love each other, bottome line, there is no problem anymore" so how could i possible tell him now. what purpose would it really be serving???

i have to be strong enough to let it go and move on. i have to do this on my own. we have been through so much. if i could just relax and stop worrying so much. if i could just have faith in our love for each other and in the things we have learned, we could be great together.

incidentally, in the middle of this post, my H called and apologized for not being a better listener yesterday, that it was ok to need the extra reassurance (i finally managed to tell him that is what i was needing). i started to say, i'm sorry for needing it, i should not need it but he said no, we both know that is not how feelings work, you cannot control the feelings from coming, only how you react to them. he said i did not attack him in anyway, i just wanted to share and i should be able to do that. also worth noting, on wed morning, when he slept in and i got kids to school, i wrote him a love note, even though i was feeling some sad feelings already, telling him how much i enjoyed the trip, i did a top 5 reason i enjoyed the trip (one was not having to wake him up, another was enjoying holding his had, the top #1 was for being there with him.) he really liked the note. so i am learning too, i can have neg feelings but i don't have to let it impact my actions and i can offset the neg feelings by doing something positive like writing him that note. although i still have to be able to directly share, even the neg feelings, with him if that is what i need to do.

there really are good signs here that we can just move forward.

amy, i hear what you are saying. thank you for your post. i know i have confused the heck out of him. but you have to realize, i didn't just have an affair while pretending nothing was wrong in our marriage. he knows how serious i was about divorce (and it was not to be with the OM, i think my A was different than so many here, this was not a person i was thinking i could run away with and live happiley ever after, this was a full blown PA, with just enough fantasy friendship in there to keep me sane). my H knows our marriage was in serious trouble and the seperation was a big wakeup call for him. i slowed our progress out of this mess because once in the A, i had a hard time finding my way out. but if i can be strong now, the confusion can just be left where it is, in the past. i know where i went wrong. i also know myself better, i have done a lot of work on coming to terms with my childhood and the needs i have because of that childhood and i have learned to express and share that all with my H. and i have accepted that i have to work hard on myself, i have to come to realize it is I that have acted in a passive agressive way (i used to think my husband was like that) there is nothting more passive agressive than having an affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i have never really trusted my H. i have always held on ,really tightly, to the idea that no one will ever really be on my side (childhood wounds).

maybe you all are just shaking your head at me, thinking i am so much in denial. i hate to think i am taking steps backwards. i will go back and read some of the past posts which led me to the other decision.

JL, you asked some questions:

How are you going to get H involved in your plan? he is involved.
How are you going to improve communications with H? we are actively working on this. mostly the imporvement is due to what we learned at Retrouvaille.
What are his strengths?his patience
What does he value? well, he really values being respected (yes i know, you are all screaming now, YOU ARE NOT RESPECTING HIM by not telling him) i don't know how to answer that. on top of that he values stability. he really desperately and deeply needs stabilty right now, he has made that very clear.
What do you think his goals are?well we have some issues to work out there. he wants to figure out how to start up a furniture store, mission furniture. i want to be a teacher, those two plans don't work out so well together.

so bottom line, do i have a plan? the best i can tell you there is i am 100% committed to continuing to grow and heal and be the best wife i can be.

asb, no worries, you did not confuse me at all. i wish you much luck in your therapy, thank you for posting. as you can see, i am more inline with your way of thinking already.

sufdb, i am sorry if this sounds bad but i sure am glad you did not post yesterday!! you do not know me, you have no idea what all my anguish is about. feel free to believe what you want about me. if you were attempting to be helpful in your post, you did not suceed. and if that is not your intent, to be helpful, then i respectfully ask you to please not post to me at all.

sufdb, i am sorry if this sounds bad but i sure am glad you did not post yesterday!! you do not know me, you have no idea what all my anguish is about. feel free to believe what you want about me. if you were attempting to be helpful in your post, you did not suceed. and if that is not your intent, to be helpful, then i respectfully ask you to please not post to me at all.

sufdb..The point is I don't need to know anything about you fl, your anguish is not particularly remarkable, it is normal for ws, and does not excuse the continued deception. There are no excuses for not revealing truth to someone else, those who do so are theives and liars, and all the rationalizing in the world won't change the deception. Nor am I impressed with the above statement, or your assertions you know what's best for your H. He has a liar for a wife, he just doesn't know it, and he has a right to know (of course if you tell, you are no longer a liar, you are honest....which is the whole point).

If you don't understand that, then you are behaving narcissistically. Narcissists want what they want for them, and will do whatever it takes to get it.....for now, you want the "happy" marriage so you manipulate your H accordingly, and justify decieveing him is ok because you do it for "him"....nah, you are doing it for yourself, because you are afraid he will leave you, at least admit that to yourself. Let me ask you a question, if you knew with certainty that revealing the affair would make your marriage stronger, would you do so? Of course you would, and that's the point, you have no principles, you are doing what it takes to get what YOU want, that is what narcissists do...everything is about them. Your H has a right to know, and you have absolutely no right to continue to decieve him. It is not your choice to decide what he should and should not know about his life.

The affair does not end until it is revealed, for the rest of your life you are in a conspiracy with the om to decieve your H, no matter how you rationalize it away, there are parts of you your H will never know, they belong to om, and you do so willingly...that is really kinda despicable. But be that as it may, perhaps you will understand and make proper ammends, if not you, and your family will pay a price, and it will be high.

Helpful? Yes, I was trying to be helpful, by confronting you in the hopes you are not a narcissist, or a controller, thinking sometimes the hard truth shakes people out of their denial. If I wasn't "helpful", it is because you are a determined controller thinking you have the right to decide other peoples lives for them....in which case, you are right, no one will "convince" you otherwise because honesty is not your agenda...one can only hope someday your H knows the truth, in the meantime you have the power to dupe him, and seem intent on doing so....don't expect to be validated, or allowed to do so unchallenged.

I wonder what your response would be if your H asked you if you ever had an affair. And I really can't understand why you want to keep om in your marriage, why you will let this affect your entire life, rather than trust your H, and tell him the truth, and let him choose you for you...not cause you manipulate him.

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

I'm the WS, my situation is a little different than yours but I think I can offer some insight.

I ended the A a while before H found out. I ended it because I realized I wanted to make my marriage work.

Before the A, I was VERY unhappy. I found though that after, once I stopped withdrawing from him, and changed MY approach towards him, everything got MUCH better.

Sad that then he found out and that all went out the window, but I do not regret him knowing. I think the guilt would have eaten me alive, it did and still does.

I'm not trying to pursuade you either way, just giving you my experience. It sounds like you're thinking the right way to make your marriage better.

Again not trying to pursuade, but I also vowed to take it to my grave. Though he found out without me telling him, I know I couldn't have kept it up long.

My revealing the details of the A has started to better our marriage in many ways. I realized that I wanted my M to work VERY badly and that if I didn't tell him EVERYTHING that it would just seem to be working, but not really be good. I knew for that couple of months I was in the A, our marriage was a lie, I didn't want it to be that way forever. But I understand how you are feeling as I felt the same way for a couple weeks after I ended the A.

Just sharing my story! Hope it helped in some small way

FL -

I cannot leave without pleading with you again. After reading your response, there are so many references in there to you and your H not being connected. You are not connected because you cannot get past this huge lump of A between you.

I am telling you, as a BS, your H KNOWS something is wrong. At best, he doesn't know what it is and is just going to keep on in the marriage even though he is not happy - as you are doing. At worst, he thinks it is something he is doing that is causing you to be unhappy, and will spend countless time trying to "fix" you or "make you happy."

That you are here posting, that you titled your topic the way you did, that you didn't just drop off MB site without a trace (and thank GOD you didn't do that - please do not do that), I cannot help but think you are giving out a cry for help.

I believe, as all WS do deep down, that you know what you have to do. It is what drew you to this website. And you are now afraid, because it is after the vacation, and you said you were going to do something, and now you are afraid and backing out.

You have filled up your H's love bank so much with your actions over the vacation (letting him nap and sleep in)! And he yours (waking with the alarm clock). You have nicely set the stage for the best chance of him wanting to work on the M with you, after you tell the truth. Do not let fear rob you of your best opportunity!

No good decision was made out of fear. Courage is not the absense of fear - it is being brave IN SPITE of your fear. Write it in a letter and read it to him. Make up note cards.

After he goes through the natural range of emotions (and reading so much here, you have a pretty good idea of what those are going to be), he will be so grateful you told him. On some level, he already knows! You are not protecting him. You are not saving him. It is too late for that. You had an A!

All you can do now is the best thing for him, and that is not to lie to him for the rest of your lives. You know down that path lies unhappiness for you both. You have to know that!

And you have so much support and love here to help and guide you. That is why you are still here. Your true self is here, seeking, learning, knowing. Do not let that small (but powerful) fear hold you back. You know what you know now, you cannot go back, thinking not telling will work.

I have so much compassion for you. After my H asked me to marry him, I happily said yes. Then I woke up at 2 am, from horrible dreams, because I had cheated on him with 2 boys while we were living together - dating exclusively.

So, I faced my fear. I was so afraid of rejection. I had no idea what he would do. But I was more afraid of beginning a M on a lie. And I just blurted it all out in a rush, told him if he didn't want to marry me because of all the horror I had told him, I understood.

And he laid there and thought about it for a long time! Then he said he still wanted to marry me, he forgave me. WOW. And I have never regretted, even now, that I let our M begin on a firm foundation of truth, honesty, and friendship. You will not regret it, either. This can be the beginning of your real M.

Love and hugs, Amy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong>

melodylane, what my H wants is for all the turmoil that has occured over the last few years to be over. he does not want us to not go back to how our marriage was before, he agrees neither of us did a very good job at being in this relationship. he just wants to have stabilty and progress moving forward. he sees no reason for this to not be able to happen. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he doesn't see a reason not to move forward because you are defrauding him. You are keeping him a marriage based on a lie. He may not choose to live with a liar and an adulterer and you are depriving him of that right.

You are manipulating him for your own benefit because you can't face the consequences of your actions. Please don't try to tell us your continued deceit is for HIS benefit, it is for YOURS.

Through fraud and deceit, you have cruelly determined what is best for him, when you are the LAST PERSON in the world who is qualified to determine what is best for him. Is the rapist qualified to determine what is best for his victim? Of course not.

I feel very sorry for your H and your children.

i am 100% committed to continuing to grow and heal and be the best wife i can be.
Not really. Maybe only 50%.
You don’t trust your husband enough to confide in him.
You continue to lie to him every second of your life together. (Yes, this hurts MUCH worse than the affair).
Those two things show that you are not really as committed as you think you are.

I’m not suggesting you just blurt out about the affair. But to think you marriage can “recover” when your husband does not have a clue that it needs to “recover”, just ain’t gonna cut it.

If you want to be committed, then be committed. Don’t do it half-baked and think it’s “pretty good”.

Still praying for you fl.

S&C

FL -

You didn't let us all scare you away, did you? Keep posting and communicating with us. I think you need more time to make sure your decision is going to work for you.

Whatever that decision is.

Please keep posting. Do not leave.

I am praying for you, hoping for you, wishing to see a post from you soon.

HUGS! Amy

well, i woke up yesterday morning realizing I have to go back to the decision of telling my H.
I am going to stay home one day this week and talk to him after the kids go to school. I would sure appreciate any final advice. What book would be the best one to have do you think. I have read part of His Needs, Her Needs. I have heard a lot of people talk about Torn Asunder too. Obviously my H will not have to learn about plan A/B. I am extremely out of the A fog. He does not have to work on winning me over. He has already done that. I realize it is now my turn to work really hard now. Please pray for us.

milwifefw, thank you for sharing your story. it does help.

Amy, I thank you for your interest and positive energy. God knows, it is more than i deserve. You are very kind. I have not gone anywhere and I agree with what you say. I am obviously calling out for help because I keep coming here. Thank you for seeing that and responding with such kindness. i'm sorry i didnt post yesterday, i did read your post, and as i stated above, i had already decided i had to tell him. i guess i needed an extra day to admit it on the board again. (i really am so scared, he does not deserve all this pain i am about to dump on him, nor all the pain i have been dumping on him)

Chris -CA123, as you can see, i know you are right.

S&C, thank you for your prayers. i have not been over to the prayer board in a few weeks. your prayers mean a lot.

sufdb, melodylane, i will say this to you both. it does not help me to have you tell me how awful i am, like comparing me to a rapist. i can understand it must be hard for you to listen to the whinings of a WS afraid to tell her H she has cheated on him (i assumer you are both BSs). I am very sorry for the pain you have both endured. I do not wish to add to it. Nor do I need you to be adding to mine right now. And so I am asking you, please do not respond to my posts anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong>
sufdb, melodylane, i will say this to you both. it does not help me to have you tell me how awful i am, like comparing me to a rapist. i can understand it must be hard for you to listen to the whinings of a WS afraid to tell her H she has cheated on him (i assumer you are both BSs). I am very sorry for the pain you have both endured. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry that I used an analogy with you. I just assume that most people "get" analogies; I know many simply cannot. I see I was wrong here so I will try and explain my point in a clearer manner.

My point is NOT that you are a rapist, but that you, the adulterer, are the LAST PERSON who is qualified to decide what is "best" for your victim since you are the one who committed the crime. See what I mean? My analogy was intended to convey that PRINCIPLE, not that you are a rapist.

And I appreciate your concern for my "pain," but I have not been in pain for years. And sufb is not a BS, but a WS just like you. Not that either of our backgrounds, or our "pain," has anything to do with the points we made.

I understand that its hard for you to hear truthful opinions about your behavior so I can see why it would be hard for you to see such opinions. But please don't run from differing views, try and be open minded and listen to them.

<small>[ February 22, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>