Before I go into how the afternoon played out I need to come clean with those who can look past my shortcomings and still offer constructive advice after I reveal what I have to. Since coming to MB I've seriously taken to heart the program of recovery that is spelled out within MB. Yet I've fallen short in my efforts.

Due to me still trying to control what happens I've been behaving like a friggin moron. The truth of the matter is that I've ben telling my BS that if she does go thru with the D that I will not have anything to do with our children and I will move out of state. I know this is a LB x 1000000 given where my BS and I are right now. I've stopped that line of attack and started to approach her in the manner that if she does proceed with the D I will be a part of the childrens lives as much as she'll let me.

I changed my tune this past week after this was dicussed in IC. It is a function of my issues with control and the repressed grief over losing my own father as a child. I truly do want to be a part of my boys lives if my BS does go thru with the D.

Now to last night. My BS text messaged me saying she was called into work and would it be alright if I brought the tax forms and my answer by her work instead of the house. I called her and told her it was fine with me. I also told her that right now I am up and down on an emotional roller coaster ride and its made me inconsitent with my behavior.

So I head out and meet her at her work. When I came in she had me come to one end of the bar away form the regulars who were there. While we took out the tax forms we began to talk and I screwed up. I told her I was thinking about resigning my position and starting over as an independant contractor. (this is something I've considered for a while, it would mean much better salary.) I know that I should not make any big decisions at this time. I know it was a LB as she immeadiately said, "ohh yeah, so you can screw me over with child support" I tried damage control as far as convincing her that if I did strike out on my own it would be as a legitimate company and that I wouldn't try and screw her.

As we talked she began to bring issues up as far as what I've done to her. Letting her become a full time mom and not work and then shatter her world by screwing someone. Those were the sort of things she said loud enough for all to hear. I answered her anytime she asked me a question and was open and honest, even given the public situation. (the embarrasment I felt must pale in comparison to hers.)

During this time a young man came in who could have been the OP she's been with since we've separated. When he came in and sat down she kind of shushed him as he began to say something and gave him a look. She went and got him some smokes and asked what he wanted to drink. He asked for Coors in a bottle. She replied they didn't have any bottled but had cans. He made a joking gripe about it and someone said "well at least we know why he comes here if its not for the beer"

When this was said my BS and the OM were looking at one another and I perceived they shared what I would call a "knowing smile". When this happened the entire mood in the bar changed as the regulars looked at me waiting for a response. I sat there with my hands on the bar, my heart was beating so fast and so hard it sounded like a freight train in my ears. Someone made a stupid joke to break the tension and one of the regulars who knows who I am got up to go to the restroom. My BS came back over and I told her that I needed to use the bathroom and get going soon as it was getting late.

I went to the bnathroom and asked the regular who knew me if her knew the guy who came in (OP). His response was a less than convincing no. I told him not to worry that I wasn't planning on causing any trouble that I needed to get going. He agreed and we walked out.

I went back to the bar and wanted to leave asap. I walked up to BS and told her that it was late and we needed to sign the taxes and I had to go. She was a bit upset as we had been having a discussion when all of the previous 3 paragraphs happened and I was like I gotta go now. I wanted to go because I was afraid I was losing control of my emotions and I felt I had to go before I did. So she signed the forms and I left.

Before I was 5 minutes away she called me and said "this is not an answer" and I lost signal and her call. I called her back and managed to get thru crappy reception to tell her I would call her back once I was in a better location. I called her back and asked her to start over as I barely heard her. She said that my letter was not an answer to why I had an A. I went on to explain what I was saying in the letter. I explained to her that I brought unresolved emotional issue to our marriage. I explained that she did not do or say anything to make it happen. I explained that it was the sum of things that were wrong in my life both from childhood and present. She kept on insiting that she needed a more specific answer as to why I had the affair. She seemed to point the conversation towards my childhood issues as they may have seemed to be the biggest cause listed in my letter, at least thats what I perceived. I ended up conceding a single statement answer for her that was worded as such (almost verbatim):

"I came into our relationship as damaged goods. I was damaged somewhere in shipping and was never fixed along the way. I never saw the issues for what they were but I do now and I'm begining to fix them."

After that the conversation was pretty much finished. I asked if she worked today and who would have the boys if she did so I could call them. She told me she'd let me know and I told her I missed her and that I'd talk to her later and thanked her. She said y/w and goodbye. End of night.

I know I have a lot of 2x4 coming out of storage and I know how much beeter things would be if I had been able t be completely open in my posts here. If someone is extra harsh to me, no need to berate them. I certainly deserve it. But please, I need help and outside of sitting in IC every day of the week, this place keeps me hopeful.

-2soon

Do me a favor. Don't have any more conversations about your marriage in the bar. If W is not comfortable at home, at least go somewhere that there will not be an audience.

Believer,

It was where she worked and I told her that I didn't feel comfortable having the discussion we were having. I tild her I would listen to her and answer her but that it was difficult there. I was told this morning that it was probably just so she could make me feel bad.

Don't know, and I guess it doesn't matter. Other than LB'ing by telling her I might start over careerwise I was able to keep the conversation relatively productive.

-2soon

I'm wondering if she felt safer (in an odd sort of way) having this conversation there. Do you have a history of being harsher in private than you would in public?

Sounds like you didn't do that badly. My opinion is that even if you know what you've been doing wrong and improve on those things, you shouldn't beat yourself up too badly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Before I go into how the afternoon played out I need to come clean with those who can look past my shortcomings and still offer constructive advice after I reveal what I have to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is the essence of why we're here. If you didn't have some shortcomings, you wouldn't need support.

How important is this independent contractor thing to you? You may build up some points if you tell her that you've changed your mind after hearing her opinion of it. I assume you could start it later if you eventually give up on the marriage or she changes her mind. I think this would show her that you respect her opinion and you're willing to let her have a say in things.

Hang in there.

wise,

Your consistent pattern of behavior to your W says to me that you are both incapable of conversing about this whole issue on your own.Neither one of you have the "right" communication skills to try and make any headway here and as we have seen it keeps backfiring.

Can you not both get into joint counseling? I can't remember if you already talked about this before but it seems to me that the longer this plays out like it has been,there just isn't going to be a positive outcome.Sorry if we already crossed this bridge but I didn't go back to reread your posts on this topic(MC,IC).

O

Originally posted by wise2soon:

The truth of the matter is that I've ben telling my BS that if she does go thru with the D that I will not have anything to do with our children and I will move out of state.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I know this is a LB x 1000000 given where my BS and I are right now.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I've stopped that line of attack

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

"line of attack" certainly seems how you approach working with your wife to solve problems...

and started to approach her in the manner that if she does proceed with the D I will be a part of the childrens lives as much as she'll let me.

This too comes off as a type of threat. You probably scare the heck out of her by now!

What a pickle you've created!

Sometimes we can make things so awful that there is no happy ending.

I'm praying you have the strength to change your life around.

Pep

October, We were in MC before I disclosed the A and only made it to one more session before I screwed things up even worse.

Dobie, I believe she really was called in to work. I don't think she had me go there for any other reason save that one.

Pepper, you hit the nail on the head with how I'm feeling this morning. After reviewing things I get scared that I've done to much damage and now its probably gone to far. I pray I'm wrong.

Another thing I forgot to mention was she brought up the fact that she told me years ago that if I ever had an A it was over, no questions. I used the approach that was reccomended to me here when I responded to her. I told her I either lied to myself or looked at her absolute as a child would. I told her that I either lied to myself about the consequences or I just didn't believe she would do it, tht she loved me and our family to much to let me destroy it.

Keep it coming, Stopped vomiting now so I can sit and respond. (am sick today, in the office doing nothing)

-2soon

Why do you keep saying things to her that you dont mean? You know you shouldnt be doing it, but you go ahead and LB anyway. JUST STOP! It seems like the man who is talking to your wife and the man who is talking to us now are two different people. You need to make her feel secure around you and feel confident that you wouldnt walk out or have another affair if she let you back home.

Write her another letter, answering any of the things she felt you didnt answer in your last one. Is there anything else you can think of to explain how you are feeling and why you had an affair?

Also, obviously you need to talk with her in private next time. Make sure you dont give her any grief about the OP, because you know what her response will be. Focus on your affair and what she has requested of you.

Well done for giving her the letter and doing your best to answer her questions despite being forced to do it in a less than ideal situation.

KS and others,

When it comes to me saying one thing here and another to her, I really just failed to mention the sh!tty way I've been acting. I am trying to be more consistent and show her some stability within me.

My behavior in recent days as far as me still lashing out childishly is done with. I stopped it this past weekend when I told her that I would be a part of the childrens lives.. etc. Would it be helpful or harmful to somewhat explain the "fog" to my BS and how it, coupled with me still dealing with decades old personal issues are why I've been so inconsitent lately? I want her to understand that I am trying to do the right thing and I correct myself when I find I've screwed up.

Good idea/ bad idea?

-2soon

Sorry to say it, but...

I imagine she has probably heard enough about your issues(excuses?) by now. She just wants it to stop. How about focusing on her? She has been betrayed and let down by you in a big way. If that isnt an issue that shes having trouble dealing with, I dont know what is.

Sending my love

Ok KS,

Help me then, What would a constructive way of approaching this look like?

Do I approach her and say, "I do not want to cause you anymore hurt. I'm here to answer the questions you have and to be here however you'll have me. I will give you support wherever I can and try to make dealing with this whole awful mess I caused easier for you. Somethings I will try to do on my own, others I will do if let me know. I don't care if it is as simple as coming out and taking the trash down to the street for you on trash days, I want to help you."

KS, one of the things she did point out to me was how I have been all over the place with what I was saying I was going to do. If she does ask me again why I've been behaving this way I plan on saying something along the lines of: "Because I've still held on to some childish and immature patterns of behavior and I'm working to let go of them. They are part of the withdrawl from the A I was having as well part of my unresolved issues." is this an acceptable response? I sincerely believe that this is part of the reason I've continued to act this way while screaming from the top of my lungs I want to save our marriage.

Thoughts?

-2soon

Ask:
"What can I do for you today?"

Then do what she requests.

You talk too much about yourself.

It's all about you.

Try being quiet and listening.

Stop explaining and reacting.

I imagine you are exhausting your wife's resources.

You sound like a needy man who never gets full.

Pep

Pep is right.

She needs to vent at you: have you given her this opportunity? Do you even know how this A has affected her? After all, you've had your chance to vent.

What was the real, specific reason for your affair? Have you admitted this to yourself? What was going through your mind when you decided to have sex with another woman? These may well be the things that are bugging her.

You are skirting around the most important issues here by harping on about the distant past. Stop using past events to justify your actions: it doesnt wash with me, and Id be very suprised if it did with her.

Sorry to be harsh, still sending love.