UGH.

Dad,

obviously talking, hugging and giving the OW a kiss was a step in the *wrong direction.Every time you do that you are hurting yourself and your family and especially mom.You start all over AGAIN.And the OW knows just what to say to push your buttons and get all those feelings flying again.What a martyr. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Do you now SEE why there has to be NO contact of ANY kind? It is IMPERATIVE.Why did you not turn around and walk away from this OW? She is a DANGEROUS person to you and your family. You have to start retraining your heart,mind and legs to get you out of that very type of situation.

You'll have to tell mom about this right away if you haven't already.She is going to be very hurt and don't let her find out about it on here.

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> UGH.

You'll have to tell mom about this right away if you haven't already.She is going to be very hurt and don't let her find out about it on here.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he told me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OK, dad. So this is it. It's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... she said I belonged at home and she would move on eventhough she loves me dearly and thinks of me every minute. She said nobody could be happy in this situation and she wanted what was best for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't let this go to your head. Of course she is going to say this kind of fluff right now. She still wants you back (no, she doesn't want what is best for you, or your wife, or your boys).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She said no one had ever made her feel the love she had for me but she will get over it cause life goes on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plain and simple? This is straight up ego strokes. She knows how to use 'em. Mom, pay attention. Ego strokes are a need for many men, and apparently for dad (my FWH, too).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I gave her a hug and kiss and told her we had a great thing but it was not workable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, dad, what you really told her was she was the love of your life but you could not walk out on your sons. You told her, with that hug and kiss, that she means the world to you but you are willing to give her up for the noble cause of being a dad to your boys. You made her feel good knowing the power she has over you. Who wouldn't?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She wanted to leave the door open for us to talk but I thought about what? Hi how was your day? we can't be together but talk to you later.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I pray some day you can look back at this and say that was "fog" talking. Your own thinking has you telling yourself the same thing you told OW with that hug and kiss: OW is my true love, but it just can't work. Woe is dad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I explained to her I was worn out by the whole thing and had decided to give my marriage a second chance and that by getting to know her son I felt worse about missing my kids. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And bring the kid into it. Now it is not just her you love so truly (which is how any OW who just got a hug and kiss from her beloved would interpret this whole thing) but her boy has a special place in your heart, too. Trust me, she didn't even hear the part about how you missed your boys. And if she did, it was through a filter that interpreted it thusly: I miss my boys so much, and if it weren't for that wife of mine I could have the woman I love, her kid, and keep my own kids to boot! But I have to suffer, OW has to suffer, for the good of everyone else. Ack!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really messed up by talking to her, I hope I can resist these urges to go back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

You've got my complete agreement there, dad.

Sorry to be so harsh today, but I think you needed a 2x4.

~ Snow

Edited to add my sig and "Ack!" (it was a choice between that and "puke!").

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]</small>

Dadto3boys, I'm probably going to get myself in trouble for this. I know it's counterproductive etc.. just remember that it's ME saying it, not your wife.

On the one hand you have a woman who has loved you for many years. Stood by you no matter what. Bore 3 children for you. Supported you in your career decisions even though it sounds like some were difficult. She has created a loving home for you and your children and has tolerated more than many women would! On the other hand you are pining over a woman that was willing to destroy your family and hurt the woman who loves you very much. A woman who preyed on the wounds of your marriage. I don't understand it and there's nothing anyone could ever say that could make me understand it.

toomanylies,

It is never counterproductive to tell the truth. And you put it so eloquently.

~ Snow

True, true and true. I messed up by making her feel powerful, she is cunning. I AM WEAK, how come this is so? Does the fog apply only to me? why not her? Why was that whole nursing home enabling the A? Geez they are all her friends and donot want to see HER hurt. Lets watch Dr WS self destruct in front of us, no I cannot believe myself. Must go back to the drawing board.

Dad,

The fog does apply to her. Read above: "I've never loved anyone like I love you." That is fog!!! Is she cunning? No, I don't think so. But she is manipulative and all her "homies" are egging her on. Kinda sick, isn't it? These people just love a good romance story, and not one of them can imagine the pain that this is causing you, Mom and your boys. All they see is OW's sad face.

~ Snow

Dad is off to work now! You guys really gave him something to think about. He feels very badly about what happened today. Tomorrow is another day, right! He knows he has to be strong! Thanks for the support you are giving him, me and our boys! We trully appreciate it!

Dad Dad Dad....

Yeah, I tried the face in my hands "I ma weak, she is cunning, I was led astray and she drove me to it..."

Bullsh1t. You are a grown man. Anyone drive you to do cocaine? Anyone drive you to rob banks? No, because you know it's wrong and you wouldn't do that. OW did not lure you away, the hospital did not allow it to happen. You followed yer d1ck, it got you in a lot of trouble and caused a lot of pain.


Big secret for you - I get the whole desire to find SOMETHING or SOMEONE to blame the mess on because Lord knows it ain't something anyone wants to claim but that's important.

If you really were so weak that you can't be trusted to keep your word ever then Mom needs to drop you right?

BUT no, you are not a big whussy, you are a grown man - ya f'd up bigtime but you are not a weakling. You failed but are not a failure and NO, nobody can lead you to do anything you don't want to do.

Start wanting to save your family. Can you imagine sitting there facing your boys and explaining how you were too weak and could not resist the woman you betrayed their mom with? HELL NO! No way in the world are you going to tell your boys that. You might tell them you've made mistakes and learned from them and became a better dad and man as a result but teach your boys that their word doesn't matter and they aren't responsible for their actions? Bullsh1t, I don't believe that, you are a LOT better than that.

Buddy (can't keep calling you Dad, too weird) you are running out of second chances. It only takes ONE decision to do right and stick to it. If YOU decide that then nobody can lure you into screwing it up.

Not sure if you have really and truly faced the notion that at any monet the 'next time' could be the last time - no wife, three boys who despise the father who ruined their home. How do ya figure they'll turn out if you let that happen???

Think I'm being rough or honest - Dangit I have BEEN THERE and as messed up as I was if I could do it then by God you can do it.

So don't tell yourself you'll try, don't say you will do it if you are strong enough, get good and pissed off and decide that dammit, you are going to make things right and never screw up like this again.

All in your hands buddy, no halfway crap - you are better than that.

DO IT!

Sigh. I'm tired of wielding the 2x4, so I won't.

Dr. Dad, let's talk about some basics again, here. If you need to end this, then part of the ending must be a change to your environment. You can't be with OW while you're on a cruise with Mom, nor driving the countryside with Mom & 2boys, nor if you join the Peace Corps and go tour Africa for a few years.

You can only be with her if you keep this dead-end job in a nursing home where the entire staff appears to be cheering on an adulterous relationship between two staff members.

Uh, could you please explain to me why the cruise isn't a better idea?

Dad, you get a pat on the back from me. Why? Because you were open and honest with your wife.

I wonder how many WS's at your stage of recovery would have made this gutsy choice?

You have no secrecy with the OW. You're an open book with your wife. I think you did the very best you could with what you knew.

Sounds like mom took the news OK too. As long as their is no secrecy about the OW I really think your marriage will be OK.

Talk with SH about what happened. He's great at planning a strategy for next time. A strategy that you and your wife agree on in advance.

I think you passed an important test. Keep telling her everything. I also want to congratulate you for talking with your wife several times today. That kind of initiative on your part means the world to someone in her position!! Blessings CSue

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

Dad -

You are doing just fine. You are way ahead of other WS's on this board.

You feel torn because when you are deeply infatuated with someone it does something to your brain. It is just like being a drug addict.

But your logical side has kicked in, so give yourself some credit. It will be painful for awhile, but much better later.

Try to do some things that you love. That will help.

Hey Dad,

Tough day...you thought it would be easier to stay away from her...but not as easy as you thought.

What extreme precautions will you and mom need to take now?

Many couples on here have gone so far as to change their number, change jobs (common), and even move across the country.

I understand the nursing home gig is a sweet deal, something you've worked hard for...but it is tainted now...and you have no one to blame but yourself. This job will need to be given to someone else. Do you have partners? Send another pertner in there. Take on a contractor to be the contact and Dr. for this nursing home. There are things you can do, and isn't your M worth more than your career? It seems you were ready to throw your career away to OW, so why not give the same consideration to your wife.

If you were an alcoholic and owned a bar...wouldn't you make plans to sell the bar, or at least have someone else run it?

Yes, you are a strong person, but you will ALWAYS have a weakness for the OW. And unlike beer or cocaine, OW will be trying her best to lure you back. I'm not her and I know about 10 things she can do that will lure you back.

1. Tell you her son is sick and would you mind coming over to see what is wrong...

2. Telling you she will never contact you again, but she has one last letter to give you and it's at her house...would you stop by?

3. Telling you she is throwing a party for her son and she would like you to come, and your whole family is invited.

4. Finding you in a moment of weakness when you've lost a dear patient or when life is not the sweetest with mom and you and empathisizing with you...rubbing your shoulders...being a listening ear.

5. Would you help her, she is having car problems...a jump maybe (pun intended).

6. Coming to you distraught over some problem in the home (snit with a coworker?)

7. Flirting with other male coworkers in front of you.

8. Praising you at every opportunity.

9. Talking with you about how hard a time she is having getting over you (major strokes.)

and 10. Lamenting about how hard she has it, has to quit, doesn't know what she'll do about money, etc.

Any of these work for ya? I'll bet they all would. And I came up with them on the spur of the moment...never underestimate the power of a desperate woman...and especially if she gets her friends involved.

So...plan for EVERY situation, and get the he%% out of there!!!

bump

Dad,

Hope we weren't too hard on you. Hope you and MT3 are getting the help you need to save your marriage, rebuild, and put this behind you.

~ Snow

Hi Honey! It's me! I just want to let you know how much I love you! I know you are very confused right now...You dont know if you are making the right decision. You are in extreme withdrawal right now. It hurts me to see you so confused. You have been very withdrawn today and I understand it will take time for you to be able to give me your full undivided attention again.

Please dont let last night discourage you! I believe that is to be expected in this sort of circumstance. We need to get used to each other again. We need to get to know each other again. it is going to take time. We have a long bumpy road ahead of us...I hope you are ready for the roller coaster ride of your life! Much more than Space Mountain or Tower of Terror <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I just want you to be aware that I am here for YOU...I love YOU...and I am not going anywhere. I am here for the long haul with you by my side...we can get thru this with the help of EACH other! We are doing extremely well, from the sounds of the experienced MBers on here. We are going to have good days and bad days. The good days far out weigh the bad days I think. Today was a not so good day...but tomorrow is another day.

I am just so greatful to have you sleeping in my bed beside me each and every night. When I woke up at 4:30 in a panic and reached for you, I wanted to cry out of happiness that I felt you there beside me. I just wanted to hold you...but somehow it seemed impossible to do with two kids, 3 dogs and a cat in the middle of us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I hope you can feel my love for you! It is there, it is stronger than ever and it is here to stay! Love you always!

<small>[ April 03, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Dad,
Your conversation with OW just about made me sick. It gave me insight. My H broke my arm when we were arguing about Sophia. I had surgery for it three days after Christmas. When he returned to work, there she was -- telling him that she was sorry he was going through this... He felt terrible about breaking my arm, I was upset and scared, and she comforted him.

PLEASE stay away. One thing our first MC did was suggest a letter stating that any contact from OW would lead to a harassment order. It may sound harsh, but I think our M would be farther along if he had decided to simply send a certified letter stating that.

it totally sucks right now, feelings have not awakened for spouse especially in bed, OW knawing away anyway she can to get me back. Contact is still there through work, coworkers are enabling. Watching my kids helps, working on my cars. May need to find alternate income soon to replace an 6-7K/month gig. She aint gonna quit, it's going to extra innings.

Would another well worded no contact letter asking her to respect your decision help? Who are these coworkers that are encouraging you to resume an affair? I find that flabbergasting!

Dr. Dad, YES. End the gig. Find another way to support your family. You can do this. I know you can.

I know how much everyone in this situation is hurting. I've BEEN, to my everlasting shame, in each of these roles.

You are going to live through this. You are going to thrive again some day. Please, take the time with Mrs. Mom. Arrange for a vacation, a leave of absence, anything. Get out of that environment. It's bringing you way down.

And the whole in-bed thing with Mrs. Mom? Take it slowly. You and she are both trauma survivors, and really you're still in the middle of the trauma. Neither of you should expect perfection in bed right now.

Heck, I keep telling people that if something they do is perfect, they didn't need to do it in the first place. Go slow. Back off from the level you tried most recently.

Sex is not a stand-alone activity. It's got tons to do with your internal self-image, your image of your partner, your stress levels, your comfort with your environment, your health, etc.

Try treating yourself, and your spouse, as if you're 15 years old and just starting out with your first ever girlfriend/boyfriend. I'm pretty sure gettin' nekkid would not be the first thing you'd do....

I'm thinking the first thing you'd do is write each other notes and fold 'em up in those crazy little squares (do kids still do that?) and send each other e-mail.

And you'd hold hands, and hesitantly smooch sometimes. And sometimes find yourselves in the back of the mall sitting on boxes and making out for an hour without ever taking off any clothes.

I've found, over the course of my long and checkered sexual history, that the longer it takes to get into bed with someone, the more fun it is once you're there.

Spend a few months getting there, okay?

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>