first day without her - Marriage Builders® Forums

Marriage Builders

I just turned in my letter to the OW, I feel horrible, I let her down we were so good together. I need help getting through the first weeks, I just want to pick up the phone and call her. She was my emotional life line for 2 months and now what? Yes my wife and family are happy but I have yet to reconnect and don't know if I will. What if I get to feeling like I made a huge mistake and now she is not there anymore.

Keep repeating the name you are using on this board and hopefully that will help you stay focused.

A good answwer, Renee.

Dad - if you'd like to hear what it's like to not be 100% involved with those boys - to have them gone - I'll try to explain it.

We understand that you are in pain, but reread also what you wrote:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I let her down we were so good together. <hr /></blockquote>I bet you were good with your boys, too, huh?

Key word in my question is "were".

If you let OW down, what have you done to your family?

You owe OW nothing. She preyed on your family. Focus on your boys and your wife and you will come to despise her for attempting to take you away from them.

Hey dadto3boys

Welcome to MB!

Dad I know it must not be easy. I saw the things you are describing in my H, and I know it was not easy for him.

Something I told him, and he keeps telling me. There are no guaranties that our M will work.

But hey! congrats! you have made the first 2 steps towards recovery, you send the letter and you are here!.

My H read's and he doesn't post. But the important thing is that he is here also.

Dad... You don't know if this will work or not, as much as ANY of us, but we are all here struggling to make it work! Maybe it seems senseless now, but if you read what people post with an open mind, and good will, maybe.... you ALL can make it worth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That is on what we are betting on, on make this work, not like before but better, and I can tell you with all the knowledge that MB is giving us, and if we abide to it, I'm having a hard time not believing this can work!

Keep the faith! and again congratulations on those steps!

Dadto3boys,

Are you married to Momto3boys? Just checking.

Dad,

She was your emotional life line for 2 months. How long have you been married to your W? Have you noticed that she is happy to have you back? Does that suggest that her feelings for you may be stronger than you realized? I hope it does, because it is likely to be the case.

It will take time to reconnect, but I would offer you something to consider. Love is a verb, it not really a "feeling". I realize you don't "feel" in love with your W. But, consider loving your W anyway. You might be surprised how you feel in a few months time. Your "feelings" will take awhile to come back, but I suspect they will.

Finally, I will be frank with you. You have a W that loves you. You managed to find a woman to mess up your marriage with. What makes you think that there are not other women out there for you if your marriage does not make it? You don't need to be in a hurry with this. There are lots of fish in the sea. Your main concern is regaining your equilibrium and seeing if you can rebuild your marriage into something both of you like and enjoy, while being a father to your boys.

There are a lot of peoples lives riding on this, you owe it your best shot. So no fair second guessing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , don't need to do the "what if's..." just move ahead and you will learn what you need to know.

Hang in there.

JL

Welcome.
The person you should be most concerned about letting down is the person to whom you vowed your fidelity - your Wife. You owe OW nothing.

Your Wife and children matter the most.

My own H felt very much in love with the XOW and it was a long journey to restore his love for me.
We are now a better couple than ever before which is not a result of his A but is partially a result of learning from his A.
It took us two years to get to the place where are are now, but it was so worth it. Our kids have a solid foundation.

You will make it. Get the counselling you need.
Read read read. Look to your W for support and understand that SHE needs support as well. She will have moments of despair and downright anger at what has happened. She had no choice in this affair and she has been betrayed. Her self esteem, sense of trust and truth have been shattered and it takes a long time to rebuild from that.

Surviving an Affair is a wonderful book as is "After the Affair" by Janis A. Spring. Start with those two.

God Bless.

Dont give up on your family, something was and is there, thats why you married her X years ago and had 3 kids.

Think about this, say you had 3 daughters all were married and all of their husbands cheated on them and you had to look all them in the face.
would you want to tell them " no big deal this is what I done to Mommy"

Simple, Dont quit on your wife, kids, family and friends. If she is willing to forgive
be grateful, yo umade a mistake. Admit it, dont do it again. The only person you lie to is yourself.

Hey Dad..welcome to MB...we've all been keeping our fingers crossed that you'd make it here.

We know what you are going through is hard...it may even get harder...but then if you do all the hard recovery work..your M will be better then ever.

I know you feel bad about letting the OW down..my H chose me and our kids on dday...he didn't continue the A but he did miss OW..mostly her friendship. He was afraid to give me up and afraid to give her up..for awhile he was hoping he could keep me as his wife and her as his friend.

His withdrawal wasn't too bad..over completely in a couple weeks. He didn't have much time to dwell on his missing her because we both threw ourselves into recovery...we weren't sure whether we could recover but we are fighters we weren't giving up until we had tried everything.

So, we counseled with the Steve Harley, went to IC and MC, read the infidelity books, read and posted her. We concentrated on meeting each others EN's (hard at first but then it became a fun challenge and that lead to us getting good feelings in return for meeting each others needs).

We also read the MB principles decided they made sense and devoted our selves to living by those. We spend our recreation time together, rejuventated our sex life, started working out together, take walks, go to movies, go out of town just the two of us, talk to each other about everything, POJA on all decisions, etc.

We learned to not just be truthful with each other but to be Open and Honest...this was tough for my H but now he's an expert.

Our MC also taught us the "mirroring technique" for learning to communicate with each other. We had to learn to listen to what our spouse was saying without making it about us...had to learn to really "listen" to each other...now that was tough but we even mastered that.

My FWH posts under "tellthetruth" if you want to ask him any questions.

He like you is a good guy who made a terrible mistake!

I too made mistakes (not an A but mistakes nontheless)...mistakes don't make a person...it's how they handle the mistake.

Turn to your wife...we've learned alot about her since she's been posting here...she's a smart lady who loves you very much and is willing to make the personal changes in herself that will allow her to better person and wife.

She just wants the same from you.

Hang in there...we'll help you through this!!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Just Learning:
 Dadto3boys,

Are you married to Momto3boys? Just checking.

<hr /></blockquote>Yes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I want to thank all of you for helping my H thru this pain he is feeling. He is very depressed right now. I will be here to support him but I do not know what he is feeling. I can only see the pain in his eyes and his heart and it hurts me badly to see my H hurting so much. I will love him and care for him even if that is not what he wants, but he needs you guys to help him thru this very tough time in his life. Please help my H make it thru this as painless as possible and keep giving him great advice! He know how much this board has helped me since DDay an dI know you can help him.

Thank you!

Welcome Dad!!! I've been following your story through your wife's posts but have never posted directly to her. It is a HUGE step for you to be here right now and I know you are probably very confused and afraid. There is no judgement here...know that you are truly welcome here with open arms. Best of luck to both of you.

Dear Dad,

Just want to say that I am impressed that you found the courage to do the right thing instead of the easy thing. I know it was not easy for you to do. We realize that you are in pain and have many people here who been through the same thing. You did the right thing.

I just want to assure you that there is great hope for your marriage with a little work. Many people who follow the Marriage Builders program end up in love again with their spouses when their needs are met. Your W is learning that in order to maintain love and passion in your marriage, she must meet your needs.

So please hang in there and let us help you through this. There really is a rainbow at the end!

welcome and glad you're here. your feelings are very normal and your W along with the MB concepts will get you through this. i don't really have a lot more to advise. i think my WH is far from where you are and i know i am envious. seek all the help you can get and prayers to you.

Dad wtg you've took the first steps, just realize that you don't have to do this by yourself your W will be there for you just remember that. I wish you and mom the best.

dear dadto3boys, it is natural to feel the way you are feeling, as time goes on those feelings will fade. You need to open up and let your wife meet all those emotional needs the ow was, once you let her in you will see you have made the right decision. All the other posters have another good point too - you should look at your beautiful boys, that should be enough incentive to turn away from the ow and focus on what is important to you, your family. You owe it to your children to try and make your marriage work. From your wife's posts she certainly wants you to be happy at home - best of luck,
Sandy

Dadto3 I know how you feel. I am in the same position you are right now. Everything you said is how I feel exactly. Keep on posting and I will keep reading. I hope everything I am reading in MB is true. Like I am sure you feel, my head keeps spinning with thoughts and different feelings. Your W was nice enough to reply on my post. We are both lucky 2 have W's that care enough about us 2 hang in there. We just need 2 get our heads straight and figure our feelings out. It has been almost 3 weeks w/o face 2 face contact with the OW. A couple of days with no phone contact. Rough times.

Hang in there... Good luck buddy.
Me WH 30 y/o
BS 26 y/p
no kids
M 5+ years
Together 10+

Thankyou all for the replies. Yes the boys need me but I had rationalized that a bad unhappy husband was no better than an absent one. The OW kept saying that going back would be even worse than before. It made sense for a while but yes my wife showed me what she is made of. She was at first shattered and almost not able to function. I backed off my divorce blitzkrieg afraid she was going to breakdown and be unable to care for the kids (afterall I needed that to continue my A) Then I started to realize after she got up and dusted herself off and started fighting for me tooth and nail despite everything I had underestimated her. Would OW do that? She may but I donot think so. I have already gained a huge measure of repect for my BS. I am emotionally numb and worn out since I revealed the A 3 weeks ago. The whole thing wore me down not to mention my schedule and not sleeping much entertaining self with OW. I am not the better person in the marriage and I hate that. I donot see us as equals and the guilt is hard to bear. I have a terrible streak in me that when I see myself as the bad guy I make things 10X worse on purpose to those I love to punish myself. I fear in a fight dowm the line this will happen, I forever have a criminal record in the court of matrimony, a convicted felon the moral highground is gone. The A started a slow death when I revealed it, the excitement level dropped off for me. I was looking for a place to stay as my friend had put the house I was using for sale since his divorce became final, I looked at a few extended stay hotels figuring to buy more time for a more permanent place and to continue the A. I saw the sterile room and pictured myself there alone and not with OW. My whole life just down the road and me in selfimposed exile there. I left and went home to collect some things, My wife came out to talk and I blasted her to push her away more. She left and came back an hour later saying I could not leave like that. This woman was so strong so determined and unwavering. The side of me that never stopped loving her saw that and that is why I am here. I still fear 2 years from now I will be back in my state of quiet desperation feeling unfullfilled and needing sex. The comforts of home will wear off and my misery will slowly return unless we change. I stayed in the grip of the A because I did not believe we could change permanently, it would slide back. I just tasted a small sample of my wife's pain when she mentioned she would eventually find new love and I would be replaced. The thought kills me, MY WIFE? MY KIDS? MY HOUSE, SOMEONE ELSE LIVING THERE? That did it, no OW is worth that. I will work on the marriage we deserve a second chance, all my divorced friends were in some nasty situations with not just infidelity but substance and physical abuse etc. This is not my situation, I fell out of romantic love with a good woman. I feel like we can make it but tommorow who knows I have moments of weakness. I feel so much better for the kids right now and that alone may get me by. I will have to face the OW since I work there 1/2 day a week, this will be hard I hope she quits but for now I will avoid her at all costs.

DAdto3boys,

I want to assure you that infidelity is NOT the unforgivable sin. There is no crime in seeing the error of your ways and making changes. That is what you are doing! The ones that have something to feel guilty about are the ones who NEVER change, NEVER feel remorse for those they hurt. Forgive me for sounding trite, but it takes a big man to admit he is wrong and take steps to correct it. It may be trite, but it is so very true.

I want to also explain something very important to you because I know you are scared about this. We know, and have explained to your wife, that affairs happen when a spouse's needs are not met. When a starving man is set out into the world he is absolutely vulnerable to the first buffet he encounters. One of the TOP NEEDS of most men is sex, so when a man or woman does not have this need met at home, they are very vulnerable to an affair. Your wife understands that it was this condition of deprivation that led to your affair and is committed to changing this. While you are 100% responsible for the affair, she contributed to the conditions that made you vulnerable for an affair.

And this is what Marriage Builders attempts to address and RESOLVE. They have found that when a spouse's needs are met at home, they fall in love and STAY IN LOVE. This is what happens when your needs are met. And this is the goal of MB. They teach the spouse to meet the needs of the other.

I can just tell you that there was also a time in my marriage when I felt NOTHING for my H. After identifying each top emotional needs and learning to fulfill them, we have fallen back in love again, passionately. Our marriage is better than it was even when we were dating.

Dad,

I don't have much time right now, but I thought I would say a few things. Weekends are sort of slow here, so I expect Mon you will receive even more advice.

First, you should read the articles here and the this discussion forum. You will find that some of the most respected posters here were at one time the wayward spouse (WS). You will also find the same in your marriage as time moves along.

I am not saying this will be easy. You will be on the rollercoaster as it is called here. Your feelings will go up and down,and so will your W's but gradually you will notice that the ups and downs are further spaced and then the downs are less and you are up more often. It is a process.

Now for something you may not realize yet. You don't need to change and neither does your W. What needs to change is your perception of your W and of yourself. You already know things about her that you did NOT know before the A. She is a strong woman, and she has a strong love for you.

Further as you talk to her you will see that she has been thinking about HER failings in the marriage. She has been considering and addressing her failings with regard to you. Just as you will have to do with regard to her.

As you both do this, and doing the needs survey will really help identify where you both missed the boat, your perspective will change.

Next, lose the guilt. You are not doing anything wrong now are you? You need to be remorseful but guilty, the time for that is over.

I strongly urge you to read Harley's Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs. They will open your eyes about marriage and yes affairs. They will lead to some interesting conversations with your W.

You also mentioned that when you are in a hole you tend to want to make things worse. My advice: PUT THE SHOVEL DOWN. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Quit digging when you find yourself in a hole and climb out of the darned thing before it gets too deep.

How long will all of this take to really rebuild the marriage? Harley quotes 2 years perhaps more. Not that things wont' get alot better much quicker. But what his goal is and what his plan is does not mean just staying married, but being married and enjoying it far more than before the A.

Please read his four rules for a marriage and read up on the concepts of "radical honesty" as well as the Policy of joint agreement, POJA. They are tools to keep your marriage from becoming what you felt it was before your A and what it is now.

The good news that alot of what needs to be accomplished to rebuild your marriage is not a random process or a question of luck. It can be worked on as a plan, with steps, progress charted, etc. Love is an action as I said to you before, therefore you control it just as assuredly as your W does. It is for you to choose, but if you do it you will see your "feelings" for her returning. In fact, you may feel things you have not really ever felt. It seems to happen that way around here.

One of the great failings of our society is the thought that love and yes even being in love is somehow random. It is NOT.

I see great hope for you and your W, but it won't be easy. The task before you is not for wimps. But, as you know, divorce is not a very attractive alternative is it? Your divorced friends are not that happy either. REcent studies have indicated that most people who are divorced wished that they had not done it, this includes the people that initiated the divorce.

hang in there, do some reading, talk with your W, and I think next week will be better as the withdrawal passes. It is a real process and is actually connected to brain chemistry. It takes awhile for the brain chemistry to settle down and things to be rewired but it happens alot.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

very well said melodylane and JL!

[ March 26, 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Dad,

One other thing to consider. That is getting counseling. The people here will do their best to help you and your W, but a good Pro-marriage counselor can help both of you to address issues that may have existed before the A, and residual issues from the A. Really consider getting with a good professional. It will help both of you.

Have a good weekend.

JL

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 I just turned in my letter to the OW, I feel horrible, I let her down we were so good together.<hr /></blockquote>Your thoughts and feelings are typical of a good man who has been forced to make a decision where somebody has to lose. In this case, three of you lose (six if you count the boys!).

Good people don't like to hurt other people. But remember this, please: OW is an adult woman who decided that a married man was the appropriate choice to fill her needs. She is responsible for making her poor decision in this regard, just as you are responsible for yours and Mom is responsible for her part in the marriage suffering.

Just don't let your feelings have control. Each of you will have to sort through his or her own pain and none of you can blame the other for it. However, you and Mom can help with each other's pain. That is your place. FOW will find her support, too. She wasn't an island before she took up with you. She'll reconnect with her support system, even if she had put them on hold while she engaged in this grand fantasy with you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 I need help getting through the first weeks, I just want to pick up the phone and call her. She was my emotional life line for 2 months and now what? <hr /></blockquote>Now you get to go through withdrawal. Soon you will get to see just how much pain and sorrow you brought to your family (because right now you really have just touched the tip of the ice berg and your own pain is too sharp to really see that of Momto3boys' and the kids). You get to feel guilt and remorse. I can't sugar coat this. It just is what it is.

However, you will also find a peace as time goes on and life returns to "normal." (Normal should not be defined as normal pre-affair. Normal will take on a whole new meaning for you and Mom if you work on your marriage together). You will begin to breathe a sigh of relief that you got out when you did, that you had a wonderful woman willing to wait and help you through the tough times. Eventually, you'll wonder at how thick the fog in your head was when you lost your soul. Happiness can't begin to describe the way you will feel to have regained your soul, your marriage, your wife and family.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 Yes my wife and family are happy but I have yet to reconnect and don't know if I will. What if I get to feeling like I made a huge mistake and now she is not there anymore. <hr /></blockquote>This is part and parcel of the withdrawal and the only answer is TRUST. Trust that small still voice inside of you that says you were right to give up OW. Trust your wife when she says she loves you and it will be all right. Trust the vets here who have been where you are and got through this and are now in happy, fulfilling marriages. This can be your future, too. Not only can but will if you give it your all.

Welome to MB, Dadto3boys. It's a rollercoaster, but there's nothing like surviving it and falling back in love with your spouse, forever.

~ Snow

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 I still fear 2 years from now I will be back in my state of quiet desperation feeling unfullfilled and needing sex. <hr /></blockquote>I couldn't resist a quick answer to this. Before the affair, there were many reasons our love life (read: sex) was almost non-existant. The reasons turned out to be pretty typical and are neither here nor there. The solution was to meet each other's needs. When you're done reading SAA, pick up His Needs, Her Needs. This book got the gears turning in both of our heads and, well, our love light started to burn brightly VERY soon after d-day. We're approaching the two-year mark and all I can say is "wooo-hoooo!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's not the "comforts of home" wearing off that make us vulnerable. It's the lack of putting each other first and meeting each other's needs that makes the home life all work and no play (and that, in turn, makes us vulnerable). I've had it both ways, and let me tell you, I am never going back to a dull, comfortable, predictale, sexless marriage! Learn about each other and you won't have to, either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

~ Snow

Hi Dad,

I am sorry you are hurting. You did make the right choice. I am not saying that because I am A wife. I am NOT a BW. I lurk on MB ..I finally registered to post to your wife.

I have forever looked for a support board for "Medical Marriages" The ones that exsist are for med students or residents. My H has been in private practice for 12 years. I am an RN by degree but currently I take care of the family.

It does take a very strong woman to be married to a Physician and keep the family together.
I am proud of Momto3boys.
I know you are in a bad way right now so I will reserve comments about OW. I will say that it would be best that you have as little as contact as possible. I will also say that her comment about to being worse for you to go home to your wife and family SPEAKS VOLUMES about her. OW does not know your W, she also has a child..
Could she just walk out on her child??? But she expects the man she loves to walk out on 3 without a fight?? Thats all I will say..

I am very impressed and happy that you came here.
I know the people here especially those that have gone through what you have can help you.

Take one day at a time....

Hi dad 2 three boys,

I've read your W's posts and chuckled to myself when she mentioned that part about how other men are noticing her now and telling you that...

"The thought kills me, MY WIFE? MY KIDS? MY HOUSE, SOMEONE ELSE LIVING THERE? That did it, no OW is worth that. I will work on the marriage we deserve a second chance"

I did that too, with my own H--and he knew, it would happen, if he left me. It always happened to me anyway, M or not, where guys would show interest, with me remaining on my M soap-box, stood my ground. But when he hurt me that way, I admit, the attentions from other men, AT THAT TIME, were more tempting.

This is important to realize though, that you really are replaceable. If you leave her, and especially since she is a faithful and good-hearted woman, that there WILL be a smart man to come along and realize the pure value in that, alone--that character trait. Honesty is truly a beautiful thing between people and TRUST is built on only that.

So, you'll feel what you do and I hope you two can keep communication lines open through all of it. This will be the new foundation upon which you build a loving relationship.

Sometimes you may feel that it is best to keep back from her what you are feeling. You'll have to ask her if that is what she prefers now to know for sure.

This is no easy thing for any wife to hear, that her husband is thinking and even missing another woman. It will cut her deeply, and yet, she is still willing to be there, for YOU, even now. In my book, that's love at its best.

Peace to you, as you reconcile your conscience with your actions.

Dad to 3;

I am so impressed with your progress. I wanted to suggest another book to you after you read HNHN and SAA. It's another Harley book called Give & Take. It sets the stage for Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) that helps you be successful in the future.

With your willingness and progress so far, I hope you and your wife consider counseling with one of the Harleys. My FWH and I counseled with Steve Harley; and it made an incredible difference right away.

Saved us so much pain. He put us on the fast track quickly. He's wonderful with WS and believe me he kept me in line as a BS too. I found I had as much if not more to learn than my husband.

Regardless, I hope you and your wife both realize that you'll be on the rollercoaster of emotions for awhile. The highs are high and the lows will still be low.

Hopefully you've read the basic concepts here and know what I mean by radical honesty. Any and all contact with your OW needs to be directly communicated to your wife. Your OW may try to contact you to see how serious you are about putting your marriage back together.

I'm 2 years post d-day; and still the OW tries to contact my husband about every 5 months. The first time she tried to contact him after d-day, he mistakenly tried to "protect" me from that knowledge. He told me much later about it; then realized the importance of not delaying honesty.

Steve Harley will tell your wife what to do to make recovery easier on both of you; and most importantly he'll tell her what mistakes to avoid.
My husband was most grateful for those bits of advice. Helped our healing and recovery by leaps and bounds!

Blessings to you and Mom! CSue

HI Dad....i too have been following your W's posts.

Just something i had to comment on when you said

"I still fear 2 years from now i will be back in my quiet state of desperation of feeling unfullfilled and needing sex."

My H and i are almost 2 years in recovery now, and beleive me the sex is great and very ,very, frequent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Our marriage is so much better now than it ever was in 18 years.

Your withdrawal from OW will be very hard and painful, but it will lessen. I remember one nite, i held my H while he cryed from missing her, your W will help you through this, her love in unconditional. You will get your strength from her love.

You've come to the right place, everyone here is wonderful. Please try to read some of the books the others have mentioned. The principals here teach you to have a much better marriage than before (hey, im living proof of that). Just meeting each others needs have made our marriage what we both want it to be.

We are so much more in love now, and it feels great. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It will happen for you and mom too.

A/C0810

d 2 3 b,

Welcome to MB. Believe it or not, through the pain this is a positive step. As for your current pain of the OW, it is temporary. Many an Xws here can attest to that fact.

Pray for patience, a clear mind and a calm heart. Work on communication with your family. Get with a good MC. Counsel with Steve if you can, he is quite good.

Will you have bad days? Yes. The A did a number on your emotional status. Your W will need your support, reassurance and love. So will your boys. Right now though you need to do some healing.

I have seen that the ones who tend to heal the best are the ones that reach out and help others. This is a good place to start. As for your personal recovery, I recommend the book His Needs/Her Needs by Dr Willard Harley.

When you can, sit down with your W and both of you take the EN questionnaire. It s/b quite revealing.

Remember this recovery will take time but with POJA and radical honesty implemented, it will get better.

I am going to recommend a few others stop by and visit your thread. If you get a chance to read Trueheart's letter to the WS, Trueheart is an Xws and he wrote that letter to my WS when mine was quite deep in the thick of the fog. Like yourself, my WS eventually learned that the A was his choice to start and his decision to stop. It took quite a while but he is recovering. He even meets with some from MB about once a month. We are going to visit with Redhat and his family this weekend.

See it gets better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

Dear Dad, I want to commend you on your bravery for coming to this site, and being so honest and brave. My H has had NC for a month and is in serious withdrawal. I have been recommending he come here for support. I am going to suggest he read this thread.

You have a taken a major step to be with such a quality woman and your children. You know what you have with Momto3boys. You have a woman who has and is sticking with you through the worst of times. Can you truthfully say you know that about OW? It takes tremendous love and strength to love the way your W loves you. Hang in there, and feel better about yourself, because you have taken the step to regain your life. A life of love, honesty, and integrity. I'm rooting for you both. CV

I would like to read TRUEHEARTS letter can someone direct me to what section and page please.. THanks.

Dadto3, We are still in the same boat. HAng in there. Like I say I'm TRYNHARD..

Dad,
I am so happy that you are here and that you realize the treasure your family is. Fight for them, you all deserve happiness together!

I really can't offer any better advice that what others have given, good job MB'ers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I do want to offer encouragement and tell you that you are a strong man to post here and lay it on the table. Keep reading and God bless your family! Ladysing

Welcome aboard Bubba!

If you get that urge to call OW come sit by me, I'll help ya by breaking fingers til the urge passes :-) (Teasing).

What I wanted to say to you I wrote on your wife's thread but I'll summarize it here:

You are in for a little bit of a rollercoaster and yes, it will suck.

..but knowing that you are no longer a liar and a cheat and have a chance to make it right is awesome isn't it????

Hang in there and KEEP YOUR [censored] HERE!!!! I got beat up here early on for all the things you are feeling but y'know what? The firends who pat you on the back for an affair are not friends, the ones who help you regain your self-respect and integrity by helping you figure out how to be a better, stronger man are friends worth having.

You screwed up - and you did so pretty dramatically but OK there is no time machine.

...there is a chance to become the kind of man whose sons are proud of not because he never made mistakes, but because when he did he didn't blame anyone else, didn't make excuses but instead he made up for them, learned from them and became a better man as a result.

One sentence explanation of what to do next?
Do not have any contact, of any kind, for any reason with the OW and do not lie to, hide anything from or stop apologizing to that wife of yours.

Welcome home.

TRYNHARD....here is a link to Truehearts letter truehearts Letter

I gave my H this letter about a week ago and it hit home with him, but he was so deep into FOGLAND I think he just brushed it aside!

H spoke to OW this morning....He is the director of a nursing home and the nursing home paged him so he had to call them back. Well, it was OW on the other end. H was so happy and in such good spirits when he left this morning. He was happy to hear my voice, then after he spoke to HER, he was sad and withdrawn. he said he couldn't stop thinking about HER. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Can you all Please explain to my H that NC means just that NO CONTACT! I do realize that this was not HIS fault. She just wanted to "hear his voice" PUKE! BUT, maybe ya'll can tell him how to avoid any future contact with her. he may say he can handle it, but it has been proven today that he CANNOT handle it. He cannot speak to her again. It will only move in in the opposite direction we were going this morning.

Keep the posts coming for Hubby, he needs all the support he can get and he says it is really helping him see the light and get thru this. Thank you!

Ouch,
He was doing so well. He does not need to hear her voice... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If he is the director of the nursing home and they page him, I guess he will have to take the call.

He must write a no contact letter today. Include in it that if she contacts him from the nursing home, he WILL hang up the phone. She is manipulating him, it's working. Is there a way to end all contact in the work environment. It is going to be a continued problem...

Maybe you,(Mom) can answer all the phone calls. This may put a quick stop to it.

Hang in there. Remember, NO CONTACT means just that. It's black and white, gray areas are very dangerous...

Find a new arrangement for returning calls to that facility. Maybe Mom could return those calls so you can avoid OW.

I cheated on my husband. I've gone through what you are going through.

It wasn't until I was totally away from OM that I could really see clearly what he was all about.
Thought he was the love of my life though. That destiny or fate had brought us together.

Breaking up a family for a lover is a pretty rotten thing to do. I personally couldn't live with myself -- never in my entire life have I gone through so severe a depression! I couldn't understand why either of these men were so stupid to want ME in their life.

This program is awesome for fixing what is broken. You will be very glad you are here!

Dear Dr. Dad, every time you have contact with the OW it puts you right back to DAY 1 of recovery. Its like quitting smoking but having a few cigarettes here and there. The end result is that you NEVER WITHDRAW and eventually go back to smoking.

Except in this case, you also put your W right back to Day 1 in HER recovery. So please have your W return the calls from that nursing home. OW will get the message pretty quick.

Hang in there, it won't be like this forever.

Momto, thanks for the reply. Dadto, everyone's right. I no how you feel, OW called me today, she was crying and very upset. Hurts my feelings. But we both gotta quit with the contact to go forward. I think we both have the right intentions. Be strong and I will try to do the same. I could use some words of encouragement myself... I do not work with the OW, but it is still hard. Good luck to U and momto.

went to the track today to get my mind on something else, it was working until I returned a page from the Nursing home OW works at. She tried to sound professional but I could hear the pain and longing in her voice. She gave me a detailed account of the problem I needed to address, too detailed I thought almost to keep on the line hoping I would break down. I did not I got off the line as quick as I could. It left me empty and depressed for 2 hours. But thankgod for the track, before long I was flying around in a state of total focus, so much so I blocked out the flaggers who were telling me to get off the track as I was oblivious to everything but catching the car in front of me. I never do that I am always aware, I was in a trance. The day went ok but everywhere there were reminders, I took her to the track with me last time and had a great time, now I was there alone. I drove by the hotel we stayed at and felt ill. Despite this I got top time and I don't care cuz I was supposed to tell her all about it today. I wish I had not brought her there since it is something I love to do and now I have screwed it up by thinking about OW. I feel like I should comfort her but I can't. I feel like it is not fair to her. I want to hold her and make it right again but I can't. I have little choice but to answer my pages so this is hard, I feel I have the selfcontrol because I am realizing how much pain and suffering this has all caused. She seems so vulnerable but I know she will be fine, I just need to remind myself SHE CHOSE THIS PATH WITH ME, and now it's time to pay the piper. The next big hurdle will be seeing her at work wich wikk happen due to my obligations. I feel strong enough to do this later but not now, if she starts to cry I will fold, so I need time away maybe 3 weeks or so at which time I have to go there. This is the worse part of an A at work.

Dad,
Your post shows how attached you still are to the OW. I did not see you mention your wife, only how bad you feel about the OW. You drove by the hotel? You heard the longing in her voice? You want to hold her and make things alright? Do you see what is going on here?

You have not let go and neither has she. Your marriage is in serious jeopardy if you allow yourself to be consumed with thoughts of her and not your wife and three sons. You MUST end contact with her. Write the no contact letter and tell her that someone else at the nursing home needs to contact you if there is a problem.

Do you want to save your marriage or not? You decide, you make the necessary changes to put yourself on the road to recovery. The OW will destroy your marriage if you continue to allow it. It is your choice.

Dad,

Hang in there. It will get better.....

You are getting a lot of good advice here on how to handle these business pages from OW. When you get one at home, let your wife call and get the message. If OW is just making these calls to keep you thinking of her, she will knock it off right quick, I promise, when Mom is the one who keeps calling back.

But what about when she calls and you're out somewhere else? I like this idea:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ladysing58:
 .....tell her that someone else at the nursing home needs to contact you if there is a problem. <hr /></blockquote>Yes, I know you wrote a no contact letter. But you left out a lot that could have/should have been said to OW. And now OW is thinking that her breakthrough point will be through business contact. And she is going to make use of it. This has to end.

So, what about Ladysing's idea? Tell OW she is not to be the one to contact you, EVER. Think she has to make the call sometimes? Think again. Bring in a third party at the home, one you can trust. Tell them the whole story and that you want to maintain no contact and from now on you request that person to do the paging when necessary. Ask them to tell OW that she is never to contact you, EVER, and that all pages will now be handled by them.

It is possible. Embarrasing, sure. Risky, a little. Not as risky as losing your wife and family, though.

Please don't think I am unsympathetic. My husband's second affair was at work. Neither he nor OW quit their jobs, but they did what they could: worked different hours and asked others to do the calling to the other when a need arose.

Surely you can go to that home when OW is not scheduled to work. Surely you can have someone else handle the paging. Think. There is a way.

But don't kid youself. If you work together, there WILL be contact. As much as it killed me, there was occassionally contact between my FWH and OW at work. It made recovery take a lot longer. It hurt like hell.

My husband left that company a few months ago. I can't tell you how much better I feel knowing there will be no more contact. Your wife will always feel a chain around her heart and trust will suffer while both you and OW work for this company. That's just the truth.

There is one more way to end contact, though you won't want to hear it. Quit your job. Many do it. Many with lots of responsibilities, just like yours. It is a solution that has many benefits.

~ Snow

Dad,

Almost forgot. Here's an idea, it's called "reclaiming" around here.

Take your wife with you to the track. Build new memories with her that will replace the ones of OW at the track.

It might sound silly, but it works. FWH and I reclaimed many "sites" this way and now my husband only thinks of the things we last did there, not the time he spent with OW there.

Hope this helps.

~ Snow

Dad - this one will take a while to sink in.

OW's feelings/actions etcetera? Irrelevant.

She's sonn to become a distant memory and a very painful one. She was part of the time when you hurt the people you love and almost lost them.

Hear me: She is not part of the equation now.

Mom? You asked someone to explain no contact? Read my sig line :-)

Dad - let me spell it out for you - tried to end it nicely a dozen times, be friends and keep it a secret (yeah, so why 12 times?... because each time we tried that we ended up back to it).

Tried it once with no contact 15 months ago.

Ya get it?

Hang in there. Ow did not give birth to your sons. Think about this - your sons will grow up to be like their father. So tell me, what kind of fathers/husbands do you want them to be?

I know that is a bit of a manipulative and rough thing to toss at you - but damn, it sure is true ain't it????

Here for ya, been where you are at now, a much happier guy today.

make sure you are telling mom about these things are happening (the track reminders, the hotel reminders, etc.) so that she can help and support you. she can only do so much when you don't let her know.

yes, changing jobs might be a consideration. i'm sure it's not what you want but the situation that is happening is not what anyone wanted either. who knows maybe a better job is out there. i've done some battling w/this myself. the pursuit of my "dream" job led me to another state and now my M is in a "state." i would give it up in a second and become a housewife if i thought that is what is needed. unfortunately we have A LOT of bills and i do need to keep my job right now. besides that if (and i pray all the time for this) that my H does give me another chance I think the best thing would be to do is move. i'm already living in another state so this would make his move a lot more seamless.

does that make sense? in other words, i don't want to quit my job and come back to where we live (when/if he decides to give me another chance) and him be forced to relive the memories he had w/her which is sure to come. so i'm going to sit tight for now and see what S. harley has to say. maybe that's what you should do, is talk about that in counseling w/the harleys.

hang in there, i can even say i envy the "state" you are in because at least you have decided to try and give your M another shot. prayers to you.

yes I agree there has to be a way to NC, but as the director ofthe Nursing home I feel I need to reestablish my credibility with all her coworkers who probably are having a field day with this. I want to show her she cannot and will not affect my professional demeanor, that is what I do that is who I am. My identity as a physcian is as deep a part of who I am as my family, it is one and the same feeling and I will let no one ruin that. It actually makes me mad at the OW if she were to persist in that strategy. She promised me once it was over that was it. I believed her then and still do. I think the first day she was just in shock and making sure since I just told her we had to stop with no warning at all. She was saying she was deeply in love at that point and I can empathsize if someone made a couple of gestures the first day. But if it continues yes it will make things harder. She would thrive on knowing she got to me and I feel I need to prove to her and my family and her coworkers that it is over and things will get back to normal. I am there 1/2 day a week I do 3 other homes, I have a clinic and I do 2 nights in the ER, she used to be a very small part of my week and was out of sight out of mind until this happened. I know I am not in love with her, I can tell as the A wound down I felt like I was seeing her too much but if I spurned her one visit she would freak out about it. So I was now lying to her. I needed to keep her fantasy alive to keep my options open so I could continue eating my cake both ways. The A for most I now believe is just that, an easy painless way to have your cake and eat it too rather than facing your responsibilities to those you love and working on your marriage. The mindset of giving up is so easy, so convenient when someone else is there to validate your feelings and then give you that intoxicating sex you crave. It is so not worth it, but man it felt good then.

Hi dad - good to see you still posting and trying to work this out.

You may be taking care of too many people. My IC had me draw a circle with arrows pointing to the people in my life that I was taking care of, then another cicle of who was taking care of me.

It was really surprising to me how many people I was taking care of and how few were taking care of me. So I sought out some more nurturing (to me) relationships.

It might help you. And also, research shows that most people who end up divorced look back with regret that they did not try harder. So give it all you've got.

Dad,
I'm not sure I understand what your position is at the nursing home. If you are only there 1/2 day per week then I would assume that there is a manager or someone who is responsible for day to day running of the home. Her calling you was not professional, just an excuse to continue contact.

If you have 3 other homes, a clinic and ER duty, you must not be the "call" man 24/7 for the one home that the OW works at. She does not need to talk to you about work, she wants to continue personal contact and it is tearing you up.

You are going to need to see this, make some changes in your availability or find a way to let this one home go. Is that possible?

You have 3 boys who will learn life lessons from your ability to handle this situation and put your priorities in order.

I "feel" pain in your posts, but it seems to be mostly from the ending of the affair. As a BS, I can't relate to that but I do know from reading that it is withdrawal, right or wrong.

Keep focusing on your family, go out with your wife and boys and make new memories as a family. If you intend to save your marriage and be a father to your boys, you are going to have to be strong and treat the OW as what she is. Not a pitiful, suffering woman in love with you, but a woman who is willing to take a man from his children. Any contact from her at this point is selfish and cruel. Hang in there!

As a director yes I must be available 24/7 I am the doctor in charge they need to contact when patients have a change in condition. I have 75% of the patients there and I make rounds 1/2 day per week at the facility the rest of the time I am on beeper. She works 5 days a week on a rotating schedule from 6A-2PM. After that I am safe, I think I will just round After 2PM and that is it. The pages I will have to deal with, I cannot let a pesonal problem interfere with the medical side of the job. I also have a responsibility to these patients and thier families who put thier trust in me. Fortunately for me the A only went 2 months I am gaining so much insight here and strength from my family that going back is unthinkable. But yes she lurks and may try again, I do miss her but that is all, there is no future there just fantasy.

OK, now I understand the situation a little better, thanks for clarifying.

I would suggest again that you tell her (in writing) that you want someone else at the home to make contact with you if there is a change in a patient's condition. If that is not possible and she must call you, keep it professional and do not discuss ANYTHING personal with her.

This is not going to be easy. Keep posting, there are a lot of caring people here who can help!

Dr. Dad, what is her position at this nursing home? Does she have a supervisor you can talk to?

Yes, this is going to be hard because you've messed up your professional relationships, but let's not hide from that, okay? Instead, let's face it head on:

- You are a professional with a demanding job.
- You need to be available for emergencies.
- You do not want to endanger patients by having an emotional reaction to the person who is providing you with information about those patients.

You need the support of her supervisor and the other staff members of the nursing home. You screwed up, you're trying to make it right. You don't want it to be hard on OW, but YOU cannot be the one who supports her.

That's the conversation you have with the supervisor. It's not about OW being a bad person. It's not about the gossip that may run rampant. It's about making sure your patients have the best care possible, and about making sure that OW has a chance at her own recovery in a supportive environment WITHOUT YOU IN IT.

she is the LVN (nurse) on the her hall, she must call if they are her patients because she is caring for them and the other nurses are busy caring for thier halls. I will mention to Angie her supervisor and see but this is very touchy and a sexual harrasment type deal could ensue that I have changed her work environment and made her uncomfortable there etc, this could blow up sky high, Darn why did'nt I think of all this stuff first, it sucks.

OK, yes, it sucks. You are thinking NOW and that is the important thing. Keep thinking, be strong, you will make it!

[ March 29, 2004, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: 2boysandaGirl ]

2boysandagirl,
I am concerned about you posting to Dad on a personal level. Did Mom tell you about the site?

Dad has come here in a very vulnerable state and is able to bare his soul in an anonymous venue. I really hope you don't scare him off here by posting to him and telling him that you know who he is.

I may be out of line here, but I would hate to see the place someone comes for help be a place that they have to retreat from.

Dad, are you out there? How do you feel about it? Now I will butt out!

Dr. Dad, Perhaps it's time to resign as the director of that particular nursing home. That will allow you to avoid contact entirely AND (hopefully) avoid any possibility of a sexual harassment complaint.

I dunno what your financial situation is like... but now is a great time to figure out how to refocus on your family. It sounds like you have a very busy professional career, and perhaps it's time to slow down and spend a little more time on your wife and kids.

Has anyone mentioned the 15 hours a week thing to you yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ March 29, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: 2boysandaGirl ]

2boysandagirl, I think it was very sweet of you to come here and post to him! It sounds like he has great friends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

2boys, I know who you are and I appreciate your concern and advice. I am not comfortable with people I have known reading my story. This is why I chose not to go on the Dr Phil show. You could have watched it all from your living room. Yes I use this site to bear my soul and yes it helps alot to be anonymous but now I am not, so if you know it all now so be it. I will eventually be able to face people but right now I cannot even face my neighbors let alone old friends. 2boys I am not mad or upset at you just give me time to collect myself, I have a long journey to travel I will get there. I will continue to post but please respect my privacy.

Unfortunately D23B, embarrassment and humiliation is part of the deal when you cheat. Imagine how embarrassed and humiliated your wife is. You signed up for this when you had an affair and this is part of the consequenses that you have to deal with, unfortunately.
I am not trying to attack you but just wanted you to know that this is part of the REALITY of the affair and the consequenses you must face now. It totally sucks but it's the deal, and you have tremendous support here from your wife, your friends and the folks here. You are one lucky man, your wife loves you so much.
I understand because I have a husband who loves me even though I cheated on him. I am so grateful and thank God every day that my H didn't boot me out on my A$$.

mrsx

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 2boys, I know who you are and I appreciate your concern and advice. I am not comfortable with people I have known reading my story. This is why I chose not to go on the Dr Phil show. You could have watched it all from your living room. Yes I use this site to bear my soul and yes it helps alot to be anonymous but now I am not, so if you know it all now so be it. I will eventually be able to face people but right now I cannot even face my neighbors let alone old friends. 2boys I am not mad or upset at you just give me time to collect myself, I have a long journey to travel I will get there. I will continue to post but please respect my privacy. <hr /></blockquote>

Let's give him a little bit of a break, he knows the consequences are due to his screwup but nobody - WS or Bs deserves what he and his wife are going through or what some of us went through.

Dad, I can understand having someone who knows you making this uncomfortable but what's done is done in that regard - the resource you found here is still easily worth it and trust me - the Sh1t you are going through is pretty similar for all of us.

There is still a lot of work ahead of you and I know how you'd like everything to get cleaned up overnight. It won't but consider this.

Your wife - Jeeeeez man, you are a lucky SOB. Mine almost killed me :-) Hey, you haven't lost her. Things don't suck, they are just a little uncomfortable.

The OW being a semi-subordinate member of the staff is a serious issue. While finding a different gig would certainly be the best solution I understand that might take a little time. Meanwhile, the rule HAS TO BE that contact is for professional reasons only. You're talking to experts in cheating and being cheated on but in this instance chat with an employment attorney to find out how to handle this. Switching jobs might be tough, getting the boot due to sexual harassment could kill your career. You are getting hit left and right with the consequences right now and I know how tough that it - beats hell out of hiding and lying though.

Here's what you can do TODAY:
1. Have a chat with the wife about how to handle who knows and keeping it private from here on out. You have some work to do rebuilding things with the wife and if the affair is over then putting it in the paper just complicates things. Screwing around with a co-worker is not a great resume bullet.

2. Chat with an employment attorney about what you can and can't do legally if you continue to work with her. Yeah, i want to tell you to quit tomorrow and find a new job but i don't have to write your mortgage check or buy 3 pairs of cleats and braces either. Understand that longterm you and your wife have a better chance with NO contact. Again, check with an attorney but if your boss is someone you can trust then being honest there may be a wise investment - sexual harassment works two ways and if SHE makes unwarranted calls and refuses to respect your wishes then guess what? She can get canned for it too. Talk to an atty on this but I would bet that there is a way to handle it legally where if she pages you at 3am to chat with an excuse like "Mrs Hughes farted and it stank" you don't have to be harassed. ...and if there IS a Mrs. Hughes on her floor that was a wild [censored] guess and i don't know you.

3. Remember those three boys - one of them will pick YOUR nursing home - ya better work this out because if they are pissed off when you are 80 your nursing home might really suck, Bubba (I deal with stress by hiding behind humor, not making fun)

Ok, you ended it, you have woken up to the reality that you f'd up and you are trying to figure out how to fix things. That's a good start.

Guess what? Today you stood up and acted like a husband and father. Beats the sh1t out of last week now doesn't it?

In a week you'll be able to say "I spent the week taking steps to rebuild my life with my family and we made a lot of progress".

All ya gotta do this week to make that true is:
NO CONTACT with OW aside from notifications on an ACTUAL change in patient condition ...we'll beat you about getting away from her entirely soon.

Second - no lies to the wife - if she asks you whether a skirt makes her [censored] looks fat and it does then you are allowed a tiny fib to avoid instant death, otherwise 100% honesty. (From what I hear she lost 60 pounds and the butt is kickin but that's just a rumor).

Third - don't bullsh1t yourself. This won't get fixed in a week. The good news is that now you are unscrewing things instead of digging a hole.

Until it is fixed be a dad, be a husband and hold your head up - if you think it through, any mistake can be forgiven when the person making it owns up to it and takes responsibility for it... it's the "I did not have sex with that woman who has my little swimmers on her dress" comments that people won't forgive.

Proud of you, yeah, the mess tinks but you are in the process of scraping it off your shoe and doing the right thing. I respect anyone who can admit a mistake and work to correct it... can't you?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 2ofaKind:
 Let's give him a little bit of a break, he knows the consequences are due to his screwup but nobody - WS or Bs deserves what he and his wife are going through or what some of us went through.
<hr /></blockquote>Wait a minute, I never said he DESERVES it. I am just saying that when you choose to have an A, this is the deal and to feel uncomfortable and embarrassed and humiliated is to be expected. If I could turn back the clock, I would never have had an A primarily b/c of how I hurt my H and destroyed my M. But also because of the fact that I ruined my credibility, my reputation and the trust of so many people. But again, I chose to have an A and in doing so, I now have to face some very uncomfortable situations which are at times embarrassing and painful as heck. Hope I made my point a little clearer this time.

I noticed that Dad was responding to helpful posts and now is not responding. C'mon, the consequences are in his personal and professional relationships. This needs to be a safe place.

Dad, why don't you close this thread and try again when it feels right to you.

Dont worry guys...Dad will be back! He posted in many other threads last night. A very good one over in "addicted"...I think the post just took him by surprise last night, but he will be back here. He knows that the embarrassment and all that stuff go hand in hand with the A and he is dealing with that...but to him he came here for support to bear his soul anonymously. I am the one who sent MY friends here as it was so much easier for me to have them all read here instead of me repeating myself over and over again when people would email me. That was my choice not his. I never thought in a million years someone would post to him...No disrespect tto the person who did. And I would not have minded a post in my own thread, but this is Dad's choice and we have to respect his wishes. Dad is doing great and he looks forward to coming here and posting. It helps him tremendously. As it does me too. This board along witht he MB concepts and SH will SAVE our marriage.

Dad will be back this afternoon refreshed and ready to post again. And dont worry if 2boys is there lurking, Dad is not mad at you, just a bit embarrassed...he will come around. Just give him some time. Much love!

Dadto, Yesterday I told the OW that it is done. It was very very tough and today is tough as well. I did not write the letter but told her in person. I felt it was how I should do it. I read alot of things here and it does keep me going. I hope u keep going. We both miss the same things about the OW and are TRYN to look at the positive things others have done that post in here. I think we both want and hope all the feelings about our BS will come back. I understand how u feel about people who know you reading ur personal feelings. Having to deal with the OW where u conduct business is tough. I do not have that same issue but the OW is very close to where I work and I need to take extra measures to avoid contact as hard as it may be for me. I keep feeling like I should let my BS go though so she can find some1 that would not put her through this hell. Some1 told me that their parents went through an A and stayed together and are today many years later miserable because of it. I want u and I to be like the happy recovering couples in here. We have both taken big steps in TRYN to work this out as hard as it is. We both have BS that are standing by us, that's huge.

There has to be a way around your work thing. I hope you find it. And being in a legal related field, I agree. Protect yourself regarding the sexual harassment stuff. I have seen a couple of attempts at Bull#$%& Sexual Harassment Suits.

Good luck.

Momto, read the Trueheart letter. Thanks for the link. It helps. Hang in there.

Welcome to MB!

I rarely, if ever post here anymore. The support I recieved in the beginning was wonderful but, I now can "fly" on my own.

I just wanted to let you and some of the other "new" WS's know that recovery is possible. If both you and your spouse are ready and willing to do whatever it takes, give 100% all the time then yes it's possible. Is it hard work? Oh yes! Do you have to face some ugly truths about yourself and your spouse? Absolutely! Can your marriage be better? Very much so. Except it will be different, you can never go back to the way it was (and why would you want to??...didn't work before, right?). The new marriage will be based in reality and maturity and not in idealistic fantasies of what your spouse should be or should do.

I strongly recommend MC for couples who experience this sort of trauma to their marriages. An unbiased, objective ear is what is needed to help both of you see the "big picture".

I wanted to post to tell you to keep the faith. Rough times are ahead but, it is possible to overcome and be better from the experience.

Good deal Mom.

Mrsx- wasn't flaming you but at least for me when people said 'well you chose to do this so consequences are to be expected - if ya didn't want..." and think back - it just makes the WS who is trying to put it together think "Yeah, no sh1t, fine it is my fault but what do I do now?"

Make sense?

The consequences, as you and I know and he's learning SUCK. Once the Ws has come around and is doing the right things sans excuses (ie, trying to put his life back together and repair the damage) even mean old me manages to refrain from pointing out the obvious "You made yer bed' stuff.

no harm done I was workin, I need to post,and enjoy it. It does help me tremendously, I went to lunch with my wife and two of my boys today....oh god I looked at them eating and smiling I had to get up and leave or I might have cried. I came back after finding an excuse to make a call about some car parts. One week ago I was spending all my time and energy with the OW, I had blocked my wife and kids out. One thing that helped me alot was spending time with the OW 12 year old son, nice boy, we went to buy him catchers equipment for baseball, I told him I can still play and would pitch to him, he was happy and excited, I took him for rides in my race cars he loved them. Then I thought wait a minute what about my boys who are bombing at school, crying at night and miserable. This OW kid dad and mom are divorced and he sees dad regularly but I could tell it was not the same closeness as I am used to. He called his mom to come pick him up after 1 hour with dad. When I would pick up the OW at home he would stand and watch us leave at the door as we pulled away with sad eyes. These things added up little occurences little subtle messages that you are wrong so wrong. I gave the kid stuff cause I like him, but fortunately we just started being friends and I pray he not upset, he is yet another casualty albeit small. OW is there I am still vulnerable she knows alot about me, I want to reestablish control of the situation and show her I will not let her get to me, I want to treat her like any other nurse there to prove to all DR WS is back. I cannot afford to quit this gig it is huge and I should have thought of that before but now I will cross my fingers and treat her just the same as the rest. My wife is terrified she will entice me somehow but I know the day will come and I will have to face it. She can work a double shift and catch me after hours, she can work late and catch me coming in or out there is no way around this. I feel she will not and this will pass for her as it will for me. We will see. For tryn I can only say we are in the same life boat out in rough open water. We need to paddle like hell, the big storm cloud behind us will swamp us if we don't and we will drown. She may come at us directly or more subtly, we may let our weakness get the better of us too, just paddle and try not to think, we did it for the OW so we can do it for our wives. There is no future with OW just keep thinking that NO FUTURE. I am not religous but this whole deal may change that. We are the path we take, we are our actions when I am in the nursing home myself close to death I will have nothing but memories, no cars no toys no money just you in that bed. A couple of old pictures on the wall, maybe a teddy bear from some great grand kid on your nightstand. You must not live a lie, you must be true to your heart that is all that matters, did you do the right thing? did you leave something positive behind? That is all there is I see it everyday. A dying man with end stage alzheimers lay in bed, no expression just blank, close to death, I thought geez poor guy his brain is gone. His son walks in and his eyes lit up and through that failing body came a smile. No words nothing that was all he had to give to his son, he died the next day. That is what we are talking about here.

Wow. Powerful post, dad.

You are doing tremendously well. Even if you don't feel like it, it looks to me like your fog has lifted and you see your life as it truly is: wonderful. You have a wonderfully caring and thoughtful wife who will obviously stand by you through thick and thin, and 3 boys who need you now more than ever. Congratulations on your road to recovery.

Keep it up, and wish me luck with my WH - I need it!

he is yet another casualty albeit small...

Children of divorce live with this reality. They see their parents beginning to date again, and each new partner their parents have is a potential parent to them. They evaluate, they watch, they hope... and they are repeatedly and often disappointed.

Divorce is not a single loss for children. Divorce is a loss that happens and happens over and over again.

This isn't to fault you, Dr. Dad, on how you're handling things. This is to say that you should see your own kids with those sad eyes, ever time you think of that poor boy.

...I want to treat her like any other nurse there to prove to all DR WS is back.

Easy there, sparky. She's not "any other nurse" and I sincerely hope that you're NOT back the way you were before. Take a step back and look at the situation realistically. There are a LOT of potential mines here, and a LOT of alternatives you have. You cannot regain "control" of this situation in any meaningful way... except to exit it entirely.

...and treat her just the same as the rest...

That's an extremely bad idea. Do not have contact with her. Please.

.... and what's more important? Making everyone at work think you're "in control," or having a family to come home to?

You said it yourself. The son who lit his father's face at the very end of his life. That's what's worth it. The people in your nursing home aren't going to do that for you, Dr. Dad. Focus on the ones who matter, and do what you have to do to protect them.

True enough I am not ready to face her. Today i had a yearning to go see her since we are 4 days out and I bet she would. It still grips me a few times a day. Intellectually I know what to think and say but my feelings are still there and they lead me into that world again. I sometimes wish I had not revealed it, but I could not function that way for long. I don't know how people do it for years it takes so much energy out of you. I am ambivalent still about everything.Wife,kids,wife, kids, right...OW,sex,pleasure,wrong...OW loves me, wrong, lies, deceit losing everything, wife giving up on me, OW says she loves me ,needs me and cannot live without me, No way right? Intellect knows this is BS, heart is stupid. I had a rough night.

Dad - Man I wish you could read my posts from 15 months ago.

If you get bored search the recovery board - jan/feb of last year.

Buddy - not sure if anything i have written to you made any sense. I'm writing because I hope some of it did.

Been there, done that - the humiliation, the professional issues, all of it.

I promise you this - nothing, and i mean NOTHING in the world one year from now could possibly feel better than looking in the mirror and knowing that whatever mistakes you made YOU saw them and YOU fixed them and YOU made the choice to be a good man, Husband and father.

Listen to me - when all is said and done that is all that matters and I gaurantee you this - nothing is more painful than knowing you have set a poor example as a father.

...and nothing is better than knowing you were man enough to change.

My money is on you, you are too damned smart to repeat the mistake.

How cool would it be to come bacj here in a year or two and tell someone " I was there too, today my wife and I are more in love than ever and I am the best father I have ever been".

..It's up to you buddy, sure hope my prayers for ya hit home.

You mentioned that just maybe this would change your thoughts on God. FWIW, right about the time I gave up all the lies and said "I need help" the answers came. He's pretty bright, chatting with him can't hurt now can it?

Dad, you're doing well.

Let's talk environmental changes. If you're in an environment that makes you sick, you don't stay in that environment, right? (I live in the DC area; I've seen lots of evacuations in the last few years...)

Any place where you might run into the OW is A BAD ENVIRONMENT FOR YOU.

If this were anthrax, you wouldn't argue with me on that point. If it were crack cocaine, you wouldn't argue with me on that point. So.... will you please think of OW as anthrax-laced crack? She is that dangerous to you.

It's not your heart that's trying to hijack you right now. It's a biochemical withdrawal reaction to the dopamines and other hormones that were coursing through your system.

You're an ER doc. Because of that, I suspect you see addicts and overdose cases with some regularity. You can't very well be your own patient, but you can surely take the actions that you would recommend to any addict you talked to.

And your best substitute? Your wife. Honest-to-god. Spend every single minute that you can with her, even the ones where all you want to do is lie down and die. Take her hand and walk with her, in silence if need be, while the shakes and the crazy notions pass. You will be okay.

(Second-best substitute: Your kids. Third? Your parents. Fourth? Ice cream. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Still rough, OW anb answers phone EVERYTIME I return a page, faxes are pouring in all with her name clearly written and" Dr WS notified " Notified alright, she is making her pesence or lack of it felt. Spoke to Harley he does not seem that concerned he says that's to be expected, wants me to develop a what if she corners me plan, ok that helps?

oops dad post

Still rough, OW anb answers phone EVERYTIME I return a page, faxes are pouring in all with her name clearly written and" Dr WS notified " Notified alright, she is making her pesence or lack of it felt. Spoke to Harley he does not seem that concerned he says that's to be expected, wants me to develop a what if she corners me plan, ok that helps?

Dr. Dad,

Not sure what is happening, but everytime I try to post something to you I do something wrong and end up deleting my message.

I think someone upstairs is telling me to keep those thoughts to myself. So I will. I'll just tell you that tonight I am thinking of you and Momto3boys and I'll say a prayer for you guys.

Hang in there.

~ Snow

Snow...what were you going to say??? I'm curious! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, Mom, it wasn't all that interesting!!! LOL! I'm sure someone else will come along and make a similar comment. Just be patient. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />by dad: sex,pleasure,wrong <hr /></blockquote>Well, I dont know what snowbell was going to say, but this comment really stuck out to me..

Mom... Dad knows sex & pleasure are good, right? He's got the good stuff at home, right? You're working on meeting his EN's, right?

Dad, keep up the good work. You're going to be so happy you did. I think you already are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Everyone take care and hang in there!!! - Dru

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Now, Mom, it wasn't all that interesting!!! LOL! I'm sure someone else will come along and make a similar comment. Just be patient. <hr /></blockquote>Oh, Snow, your killin me here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Dru...I am doing my best to meet all his emotional needs. We have to get to know each other again and I have left the sex part in his court. When he is ready, I am. My love for him NOW if so strong, I almost want to cry...It just makes me sick that we lost all those years of love in our lives when we could have been making it so much better. That is why i want to cry, cuz I realize how much I DO Love this man and I always have, it was just buried some place waiting to come out.

We havne't gone over our EN's yet with SH, so I am not sure what all of his are...I know Sex is the top one, but we are not rushing into that just yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> When he is ready, I am.

OH NO, I just realized I am posting on HIS thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WHOOPS!

Hi Honey! I love you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The OW is like a drug...very addictive, enticing drug. Like any addict you can rationalize away that you can "handle" just a little of it. You can drink just one beer, be at a party where crack is...but you succumbed to the temptation before...and would again unless you take extra precautions.

I'm glad to see you on here...it helps to feel accountable to people. There is a STRONG pull to be in contact with her...like wanting a drink or a pill...you want that feeling and are dealing with the fact you will never get that from her again. Take one day at a time...you are doing well!!! Spending time with Mom and boys...get away from the job...it speaks volumes to coworkers and her that you are really gone this time.

Cruise? Disney has a great family friendly cruise with LOTS Of activities for the boys to do so you and mom can have alone time....

not a good day. Went to the nursing home and it was alot tougher than I thought it would be. Spoke to her about the A and she said I belonged at home and she would move on eventhough she loves me dearly and thinks of me every minute. She said nobody could be happy in this situation and she wanted what was best for me. she said to keep busy with my interests and too occupy my time like she has tried to do. I will be OK she said and so will she. She said no one had ever made her feel the love she had for me but she will get over it cause life goes on. I gave her a hug and kiss and told her we had a great thing but it was not workable. She wanted to leave the door open for us to talk but I thought about what? Hi how was your day? we can't be together but talk to you later. I explained to her I was worn out by the whole thing and had decided to give my marriage a second chance and that by getting to know her son I felt worse about missing my kids. Hopefully this is it. I really messed up by talking to her, I hope I can resist these urges to go back.

Dad - listen to me here

Dont try, do it.

You and 'mom' are going to have rough spots over the next few months, when you hit those rough spots OW patting you on the back and saying "i understand, poor you' is a REALLY F--ING BAD IDEA.

No more, you absolutely can't do what you did today and DO NOT try the let's be friends crap because it does not work.

Worry about the wife's feelings and not OW's - get used to this - she is NOT part of you future for a simple reason - even if 'nothing happens' talking to her will absolutely rip your wife's guts out until she doesn't care.

Think about this - the fact that she still cares is what is saving yer [censored] right now my friend. You are fortunate - so be grateful, be appreciative and be thankful and DO NOT spit in her face by remaining close to OW.

Your wife and kids will one day be the ones to pick YOUR nursing home... how pissed off do ya want'm?

UGH.

Dad,

obviously talking, hugging and giving the OW a kiss was a step in the *wrong direction.Every time you do that you are hurting yourself and your family and especially mom.You start all over AGAIN.And the OW knows just what to say to push your buttons and get all those feelings flying again.What a martyr. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Do you now SEE why there has to be NO contact of ANY kind? It is IMPERATIVE.Why did you not turn around and walk away from this OW? She is a DANGEROUS person to you and your family. You have to start retraining your heart,mind and legs to get you out of that very type of situation.

You'll have to tell mom about this right away if you haven't already.She is going to be very hurt and don't let her find out about it on here.

O

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Octobergirl:
 UGH.

You'll have to tell mom about this right away if you haven't already.She is going to be very hurt and don't let her find out about it on here.

O <hr /></blockquote>Yes, he told me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OK, dad. So this is it. It's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />... she said I belonged at home and she would move on eventhough she loves me dearly and thinks of me every minute. She said nobody could be happy in this situation and she wanted what was best for me. <hr /></blockquote>Don't let this go to your head. Of course she is going to say this kind of fluff right now. She still wants you back (no, she doesn't want what is best for you, or your wife, or your boys).

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> She said no one had ever made her feel the love she had for me but she will get over it cause life goes on. <hr /></blockquote>Plain and simple? This is straight up ego strokes. She knows how to use 'em. Mom, pay attention. Ego strokes are a need for many men, and apparently for dad (my FWH, too).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I gave her a hug and kiss and told her we had a great thing but it was not workable. <hr /></blockquote>No, dad, what you really told her was she was the love of your life but you could not walk out on your sons. You told her, with that hug and kiss, that she means the world to you but you are willing to give her up for the noble cause of being a dad to your boys. You made her feel good knowing the power she has over you. Who wouldn't?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She wanted to leave the door open for us to talk but I thought about what? Hi how was your day? we can't be together but talk to you later.<hr /></blockquote>I pray some day you can look back at this and say that was "fog" talking. Your own thinking has you telling yourself the same thing you told OW with that hug and kiss: OW is my true love, but it just can't work. Woe is dad.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I explained to her I was worn out by the whole thing and had decided to give my marriage a second chance and that by getting to know her son I felt worse about missing my kids. <hr /></blockquote>And bring the kid into it. Now it is not just her you love so truly (which is how any OW who just got a hug and kiss from her beloved would interpret this whole thing) but her boy has a special place in your heart, too. Trust me, she didn't even hear the part about how you missed your boys. And if she did, it was through a filter that interpreted it thusly: I miss my boys so much, and if it weren't for that wife of mine I could have the woman I love, her kid, and keep my own kids to boot! But I have to suffer, OW has to suffer, for the good of everyone else. Ack!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I really messed up by talking to her, I hope I can resist these urges to go back. <hr /></blockquote>.

You've got my complete agreement there, dad.

Sorry to be so harsh today, but I think you needed a 2x4.

~ Snow

Edited to add my sig and "Ack!" (it was a choice between that and "puke!").

[ March 31, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]

Dadto3boys, I'm probably going to get myself in trouble for this. I know it's counterproductive etc.. just remember that it's ME saying it, not your wife.

On the one hand you have a woman who has loved you for many years. Stood by you no matter what. Bore 3 children for you. Supported you in your career decisions even though it sounds like some were difficult. She has created a loving home for you and your children and has tolerated more than many women would! On the other hand you are pining over a woman that was willing to destroy your family and hurt the woman who loves you very much. A woman who preyed on the wounds of your marriage. I don't understand it and there's nothing anyone could ever say that could make me understand it.

toomanylies,

It is never counterproductive to tell the truth. And you put it so eloquently.

~ Snow

True, true and true. I messed up by making her feel powerful, she is cunning. I AM WEAK, how come this is so? Does the fog apply only to me? why not her? Why was that whole nursing home enabling the A? Geez they are all her friends and donot want to see HER hurt. Lets watch Dr WS self destruct in front of us, no I cannot believe myself. Must go back to the drawing board.

Dad,

The fog does apply to her. Read above: "I've never loved anyone like I love you." That is fog!!! Is she cunning? No, I don't think so. But she is manipulative and all her "homies" are egging her on. Kinda sick, isn't it? These people just love a good romance story, and not one of them can imagine the pain that this is causing you, Mom and your boys. All they see is OW's sad face.

~ Snow

Dad is off to work now! You guys really gave him something to think about. He feels very badly about what happened today. Tomorrow is another day, right! He knows he has to be strong! Thanks for the support you are giving him, me and our boys! We trully appreciate it!

Dad Dad Dad....

Yeah, I tried the face in my hands "I ma weak, she is cunning, I was led astray and she drove me to it..."

Bullsh1t. You are a grown man. Anyone drive you to do cocaine? Anyone drive you to rob banks? No, because you know it's wrong and you wouldn't do that. OW did not lure you away, the hospital did not allow it to happen. You followed yer d1ck, it got you in a lot of trouble and caused a lot of pain.

Big secret for you - I get the whole desire to find SOMETHING or SOMEONE to blame the mess on because Lord knows it ain't something anyone wants to claim but that's important.

If you really were so weak that you can't be trusted to keep your word ever then Mom needs to drop you right?

BUT no, you are not a big whussy, you are a grown man - ya f'd up bigtime but you are not a weakling. You failed but are not a failure and NO, nobody can lead you to do anything you don't want to do.

Start wanting to save your family. Can you imagine sitting there facing your boys and explaining how you were too weak and could not resist the woman you betrayed their mom with? HELL NO! No way in the world are you going to tell your boys that. You might tell them you've made mistakes and learned from them and became a better dad and man as a result but teach your boys that their word doesn't matter and they aren't responsible for their actions? Bullsh1t, I don't believe that, you are a LOT better than that.

Buddy (can't keep calling you Dad, too weird) you are running out of second chances. It only takes ONE decision to do right and stick to it. If YOU decide that then nobody can lure you into screwing it up.

Not sure if you have really and truly faced the notion that at any monet the 'next time' could be the last time - no wife, three boys who despise the father who ruined their home. How do ya figure they'll turn out if you let that happen???

Think I'm being rough or honest - Dangit I have BEEN THERE and as messed up as I was if I could do it then by God you can do it.

So don't tell yourself you'll try, don't say you will do it if you are strong enough, get good and pissed off and decide that dammit, you are going to make things right and never screw up like this again.

All in your hands buddy, no halfway crap - you are better than that.

DO IT!

Sigh. I'm tired of wielding the 2x4, so I won't.

Dr. Dad, let's talk about some basics again, here. If you need to end this, then part of the ending must be a change to your environment. You can't be with OW while you're on a cruise with Mom, nor driving the countryside with Mom & 2boys, nor if you join the Peace Corps and go tour Africa for a few years.

You can only be with her if you keep this dead-end job in a nursing home where the entire staff appears to be cheering on an adulterous relationship between two staff members.

Uh, could you please explain to me why the cruise isn't a better idea?

Dad, you get a pat on the back from me. Why? Because you were open and honest with your wife.

I wonder how many WS's at your stage of recovery would have made this gutsy choice?

You have no secrecy with the OW. You're an open book with your wife. I think you did the very best you could with what you knew.

Sounds like mom took the news OK too. As long as their is no secrecy about the OW I really think your marriage will be OK.

Talk with SH about what happened. He's great at planning a strategy for next time. A strategy that you and your wife agree on in advance.

I think you passed an important test. Keep telling her everything. I also want to congratulate you for talking with your wife several times today. That kind of initiative on your part means the world to someone in her position!! Blessings CSue

[ April 01, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]

Dad -

You are doing just fine. You are way ahead of other WS's on this board.

You feel torn because when you are deeply infatuated with someone it does something to your brain. It is just like being a drug addict.

But your logical side has kicked in, so give yourself some credit. It will be painful for awhile, but much better later.

Try to do some things that you love. That will help.

Hey Dad,

Tough day...you thought it would be easier to stay away from her...but not as easy as you thought.

What extreme precautions will you and mom need to take now?

Many couples on here have gone so far as to change their number, change jobs (common), and even move across the country.

I understand the nursing home gig is a sweet deal, something you've worked hard for...but it is tainted now...and you have no one to blame but yourself. This job will need to be given to someone else. Do you have partners? Send another pertner in there. Take on a contractor to be the contact and Dr. for this nursing home. There are things you can do, and isn't your M worth more than your career? It seems you were ready to throw your career away to OW, so why not give the same consideration to your wife.

If you were an alcoholic and owned a bar...wouldn't you make plans to sell the bar, or at least have someone else run it?

Yes, you are a strong person, but you will ALWAYS have a weakness for the OW. And unlike beer or cocaine, OW will be trying her best to lure you back. I'm not her and I know about 10 things she can do that will lure you back.

1. Tell you her son is sick and would you mind coming over to see what is wrong...

2. Telling you she will never contact you again, but she has one last letter to give you and it's at her house...would you stop by?

3. Telling you she is throwing a party for her son and she would like you to come, and your whole family is invited.

4. Finding you in a moment of weakness when you've lost a dear patient or when life is not the sweetest with mom and you and empathisizing with you...rubbing your shoulders...being a listening ear.

5. Would you help her, she is having car problems...a jump maybe (pun intended).

6. Coming to you distraught over some problem in the home (snit with a coworker?)

7. Flirting with other male coworkers in front of you.

8. Praising you at every opportunity.

9. Talking with you about how hard a time she is having getting over you (major strokes.)

and 10. Lamenting about how hard she has it, has to quit, doesn't know what she'll do about money, etc.

Any of these work for ya? I'll bet they all would. And I came up with them on the spur of the moment...never underestimate the power of a desperate woman...and especially if she gets her friends involved.

So...plan for EVERY situation, and get the he%% out of there!!!

bump

Dad,

Hope we weren't too hard on you. Hope you and MT3 are getting the help you need to save your marriage, rebuild, and put this behind you.

~ Snow

Hi Honey! It's me! I just want to let you know how much I love you! I know you are very confused right now...You dont know if you are making the right decision. You are in extreme withdrawal right now. It hurts me to see you so confused. You have been very withdrawn today and I understand it will take time for you to be able to give me your full undivided attention again.

Please dont let last night discourage you! I believe that is to be expected in this sort of circumstance. We need to get used to each other again. We need to get to know each other again. it is going to take time. We have a long bumpy road ahead of us...I hope you are ready for the roller coaster ride of your life! Much more than Space Mountain or Tower of Terror <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I just want you to be aware that I am here for YOU...I love YOU...and I am not going anywhere. I am here for the long haul with you by my side...we can get thru this with the help of EACH other! We are doing extremely well, from the sounds of the experienced MBers on here. We are going to have good days and bad days. The good days far out weigh the bad days I think. Today was a not so good day...but tomorrow is another day.

I am just so greatful to have you sleeping in my bed beside me each and every night. When I woke up at 4:30 in a panic and reached for you, I wanted to cry out of happiness that I felt you there beside me. I just wanted to hold you...but somehow it seemed impossible to do with two kids, 3 dogs and a cat in the middle of us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I hope you can feel my love for you! It is there, it is stronger than ever and it is here to stay! Love you always!

[ April 03, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]

Dad,
Your conversation with OW just about made me sick. It gave me insight. My H broke my arm when we were arguing about Sophia. I had surgery for it three days after Christmas. When he returned to work, there she was -- telling him that she was sorry he was going through this... He felt terrible about breaking my arm, I was upset and scared, and she comforted him.

PLEASE stay away. One thing our first MC did was suggest a letter stating that any contact from OW would lead to a harassment order. It may sound harsh, but I think our M would be farther along if he had decided to simply send a certified letter stating that.

it totally sucks right now, feelings have not awakened for spouse especially in bed, OW knawing away anyway she can to get me back. Contact is still there through work, coworkers are enabling. Watching my kids helps, working on my cars. May need to find alternate income soon to replace an 6-7K/month gig. She aint gonna quit, it's going to extra innings.

Would another well worded no contact letter asking her to respect your decision help? Who are these coworkers that are encouraging you to resume an affair? I find that flabbergasting!

Dr. Dad, YES. End the gig. Find another way to support your family. You can do this. I know you can.

I know how much everyone in this situation is hurting. I've BEEN, to my everlasting shame, in each of these roles.

You are going to live through this. You are going to thrive again some day. Please, take the time with Mrs. Mom. Arrange for a vacation, a leave of absence, anything. Get out of that environment. It's bringing you way down.

And the whole in-bed thing with Mrs. Mom? Take it slowly. You and she are both trauma survivors, and really you're still in the middle of the trauma. Neither of you should expect perfection in bed right now.

Heck, I keep telling people that if something they do is perfect, they didn't need to do it in the first place. Go slow. Back off from the level you tried most recently.

Sex is not a stand-alone activity. It's got tons to do with your internal self-image, your image of your partner, your stress levels, your comfort with your environment, your health, etc.

Try treating yourself, and your spouse, as if you're 15 years old and just starting out with your first ever girlfriend/boyfriend. I'm pretty sure gettin' nekkid would not be the first thing you'd do....

I'm thinking the first thing you'd do is write each other notes and fold 'em up in those crazy little squares (do kids still do that?) and send each other e-mail.

And you'd hold hands, and hesitantly smooch sometimes. And sometimes find yourselves in the back of the mall sitting on boxes and making out for an hour without ever taking off any clothes.

I've found, over the course of my long and checkered sexual history, that the longer it takes to get into bed with someone, the more fun it is once you're there.

Spend a few months getting there, okay?

[ April 04, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]

DT3,

Let the sun shine in here.
The OW's persistency should be an eye opener to you about her character. Although she may be a kind and decent person, she's jeopardizing your son's lives.

If you've told her, for WHATEVER reason, you want to try to save your marriage, if she TRULY cared about you, she'd back off.

Let's face it....this is what I told MY FWH....if you put ALL YOUR ENERGY INTO YOUR WIFE AND M RIGHT NOW.....and you give it the toughest fight in your life...AND for whatever reason it fails.... (AND IT CAN'T BE OW)....THAN and ONLY then will you pursue or accept OW advances. If it's truly meant to be....it would be there waiting...AFTER you tried...wouldn't it ?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 it totally sucks right now, feelings have not awakened for spouse especially in bed, OW knawing away anyway she can to get me back. Contact is still there through work, coworkers are enabling. Watching my kids helps, working on my cars. May need to find alternate income soon to replace an 6-7K/month gig. She aint gonna quit, it's going to extra innings. <hr /></blockquote>Hi Dr. Dad. There is a lot of bunk in this post. Mind if I take it point by point?

1. Your feelings for MT3B have not reawakened. Of course not! You are still in contact with OW. Don't expect anything to change if you aren't willing to keep to NC. It won't.

2. OW is gnawing away, any way she can? Let's say she is gnawing away any way you let her. You have contact. You give her a place, a stage. She's taken advantage of that and got her homies at the home to help her. Good grief. How much clearer can that be?

3. She ain't gonna quit? To quote your wife, "No Sh*t, Sherlock!" Did you really expect she might? You need to look for something else now. I mean yesterday kind of now.

4. It's going to extra innings? Only because you are allowing it to do so. You can end the blow-by-blow any time you want to. Just show her the door with a strongly worded NC letter, without any "I miss yous" and plenty of "I want my marriage to work" and then turn you back on her. And tell the homies to mind their own beeswax. Cold? So be it.

Dude, you have to grow a set of something or other.

~ Snow

DT3B. Here is a post on your W board ----

mt3b:

As you probably know, I was the WS. Someone put up a post recently that really hit me hard and made so much sense. It was something like, "Living with lies is exhausting." Sooner or later your H is going to be sick of it. It's a nightmare. I don't know how I did it for so long. I felt disgusting and filthy every time I lied to my W. I agree that your H needs to stop all contact. He needs to find another gig. He needs to do this to save his M, but also for his own self-respect. He is in a position of authority, and he is setting a terrible example. Yes, co-workers might somehow be "supportive" of this; but I can guarantee you that all respect for him is gone. There is nothing worse than losing respect. It's not something that can be bought back. No one can ask someone else to give it. It has to be earned.

I am sorry for all you are going through; but you will be all right. In the same way yu want your H to know that he will be all right once he lets OW go, you will be all right once we can get him out of his fog. It is tough for him. OW is "good" right now. There are no problems dealing with OW. It's all sex and fun and good times. But that's an immature way to go thorugh life and an unstable foundation for a future relationship.

NC is the answer. I know you already know that, but there is no way the M will recover until that begins.

[/QUOTE]

DT3B

I want you to know that your story is not original. There isn't anything OW is saying to you that I (and other WS) haen't heard. There isn't anything you are thinking that I (and other WS) haven't thought.

I was a WS for an entire year. My OW was beautiful and sex was great and we had great times all the time, and we made plans to spend the rest of our lives together, and daydreamed a lot. Every once and awhile I got a glimpse of reality, and I walked deeper and deeper into the fog. I wondered to myself how long I could get away with it.

Yes, I agree my situation is different because my OW was obviously emotionally and mentally unbalanced; but let's all be honest, shall we? How mentally stable is your OW? Of all the men in the world; she chooses a married man. How does OW feel about your situation? How does OW feel about what your W is going through?

You need another gig, my friend. Yes, we all want your M to work and that is the first step, but you also need to do this for YOU. I hooked up with my OW in a work environment and I lost the respect of all those aorund me. I could see it in their eyes.

We are all proud of you for being here. Now it is time for you to be proud of yourself. Tough decisions are made all the time in life. It's time for you to make a tough decision. Take the easy way out and run to the carnival OW provides, or do what you know is the right and fair thing for everyone. If you are honestly good than you have the potential to be truly great. What a great W you have. Don't walk away from a true gold mine like that for some glitter in the dark.

Dad,
I have read Moms threads about what is going on, are you there? Are you reading any of this?

I read from a few WS's who really do know what you are going through, they are the best ones to help you right now. Are you reading?

You have continued contact with the OW. Every time this happens, you are back to square one. You say that you cannot give up the income of the nursing home bacuase your family needs it...You are not thinking of your family now, or the money...the OW is the factor here and that is clear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Have you asked your wife and three young sons if they would rather have more money in the bank or a husband and father at home?

You had a bad experience with SF with your wife and that seems to have put you in a tailspin. Get over it! You cannot expect to enjoy sex with your wife when you are thinking of the OW and all of the baggage that goes with it. Relax, give it some time. You had sexual issues with your W before the a and they are certainly not going to go away overnight. You are not giving this a chance.

The staff at the nusing home is in alliance with the OW, they are her friends. You are walking into a trap every time you go there. They WANT to help tear apart your marriage and throw you into the OW's arms. YOU are the director, you made that very clear to us earlier. Are you going to allow yourself to be a pawn in their little game?

Many here have told you that you must get rid of this obligation. I realize that you are a doctor and have patients lives at stake. If you decide that you must stay there you are going to have to ACT like the director and have a staff meeting. YOU are going to have to let them know that professionalism is expected of each employee and that your personal life is not to be interfered with. If you can ease out of this job, get a replacement and run as fast as you can and don't look back. You KNEW that you crossed the professional line when you became involved with a nurse on staff, now you must pay the price and deal with the fallout.

I tried to be supportive when you first came here, but at this point it seems that you have your head so far in the sand that you need words of harsh reality! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I hope you are reading, I hope you are thinking 5-10 years in the future without your sons.

Dad,

Of course feelings aren't coming back for your wife.As has been said before they CANNOT while you are still in contact,any contact,and until you have gone through withdrawal.

You also should take into account that you are not the only one addicted here.The OW is and will be until SHE gets help too but you have the support here of MB what does the OW have? A bunch of cronies hoping to see you fail your wife,children,marriage and yourself.Talk about "evil".Would you really go BACK to this person now if you even had a chance???

FIGHT her off and fight for your family! What is the alternative but to have this monkey on your back for eternity whispering sweet nothings in your ear until she helps destroy the very thing that she is JEALOUS OF,your family!

She wants what it is that you have but not with HER.So she is willing to try and eliminate that and try to use you to her advantage to get what she wants.She is attempting to lead you down the primrose path.And we at MB are screaming at you on the sidelines to wake up.Do you really think that someone you have only been with for weeks or months has your best interests at heart more than your wife that has been with your for YEARS and that you had children with??

O

bumping this up in hopes Dad is reading

[ April 15, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]

easier said than done, will avoid her and not let cronies corner me with her. I still feel zero at home except for the family as a whole, the romance has been absent for years though(way before the A started) What about that? OW says go ahead, go back and "make the best of it" like I have been for years. It will be worse she says but that is YOUR choice. I need time away from her for sure but she may be right too, she is not a reason to leave for I agree on that point.

Dad -

We humans are programmed to first be infatuated with another person. That is the tie that binds, until we marry and produce offspring. Later that dies down and we grow together, have intimacy, love, and companionship.

Sorry to tell you, that is the way it is. If you leave your wife to be with OW, the same thing will happen in that relationship. Then you will have to split up what assets you have left with OW, when she becomes the BS.

My WH was married twice before me. He left both wives for another woman. It never lasted. How stupid am I? Now he has an OW who tells him to "follow his heart".

What you are longing for is a fantasy that is not practical. Try to find some pleasure and joy in some other way.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 easier said than done, will avoid her and not let cronies corner me with her. I still feel zero at home except for the family as a whole, the romance has been absent for years though(way before the A started) What about that? OW says go ahead, go back and "make the best of it" like I have been for years. It will be worse she says but that is YOUR choice. I need time away from her for sure but she may be right too, she is not a reason to leave for I agree on that point. <hr /></blockquote>Well, who do you think knows best? The OW, who has an agenda, whose aim is the failure of your marriage or Steve Harley? Steve Harley has successfully restored 100's of marriages, OW is actively trying to tear yours down so she can benefit. Since when is she an authority on marriages?

Believe me, Dad, everyone here knows what happens in a marriage when your needs go unmet for YEARS on end. We know that has happened to you. But we have also seen so many marriages recovered to the point of PASSIONATE LOVE when needs are met again.

Y'all are just a little rusty at this point, though, so you need to give it time. Please just give it time and hang in there. You can have a better marriage than you ever believed possible if you just stick with it. I promise!

You don't feel anything NOW because you are still emotionally invested in the OW. As you withdraw, and as she begins to meet your needs, you will become emotionally invested in your W. It won't happen overnight, but it also won't happen EVER if you continue contact with the OW and operate in an environment that ADVOCATES and ENCOURAGES infidelity. [that just amazes me! corporate America is SOO different!]

Are you going to tell all this to Steve Harley tomorrow?

Dad,
I have avoided coming back to your thread. I have been a little angry at the position you have placed your family in.
As you know Physicians in this country are in a very tough position these days. I dont have to tell you how the absence of tort and the other issues that face medicine and your profession. The decline in medical school apps and the projected crisis will be huge. That of course is another issue.

The issue here at hand is you feel like you and your W (of course long before the A) have lost the romance in your marriage. Well let me tell you after several years and 4 kids I feel that way too at times. Kids tend to have a way of becoming number one in a household (however not in a physicians home). They tend to have more needs that have to be met on a daily constant basis. They tend to EXHAUST you.

Right or wrong they do become the focus of life... Kinda like you (and my H) did while in Medical school...when you were awaiting your match. Having to drop everything and move cross country for a 4 resident program only to have to move in another direction for a fellowship.
The long lonely nights supporting a man who was frankly NEVER there...and main focus in his life was HIM. Being proud and happy to watch his accomplishments while trying to accomplish a little of your own...BUT opps we having a baby.
NOW we have another common goal (other than of course our H's goals). Dad..Dont think I am bitter or angry (well I did have a bad day). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I LOVE my H dearly. You will never find a woman (not even his mother) who is more proud of him.
I dont regret one day with him. And what is so funny is what you described your marriage to be (prior to the A) is my marriage now. AND its my H that is telling me everything I have just stated to you (about the time , kids, and busy life). Relationships go in ebbs and flows..ALL RELATIONSHIPS do...all of them. You have to look at the tasks at hand and decide which is a priority...BUT wait lets see..your a Physician
SO that means:
WORK / Patients come FIRST...yep they do I accept that...Mom23 accepts that and your 3 boys accept that.
SECOND: The business part of medicine.. well cant have one without the other...can you?? and who do you trust with that?? We have a bookeeper, Biller and a CPA and H still is in the middle.
BUT he did not work all those years to have someone steal from him..right?? we accept that.
Third/fourth
you/ maybe your Boys ?? you seem to have "hobbys" cars, driving etc.. My H also collects cars..but he just collects them Because he has decided to place our children 3rd.
and where do your boys fit??
Fifth: your marriage??
6th: your W
The marriage and the W are separate..especially in a Medical marriage.
Do you know years ago hospitals actually had support groups for Physicians wives?..some still do. There is a reason for it.

You know Dad...MOST women would NEVER tolerate having a job coming before family NEVER EVER
Physicians wives know...we just know. We accept, we support..Period. My phone has rang at least 6 times while typing this. Had to say sorry Dr.Stressed is in the OR @ University H you will have to page him. I feel like a broken record.

I started looking at MB because "I" started to think there has got to be something better.
I was actually looking as I said in an earlier post for support in Medical marriages. I feel neglected...My H LOVES me and he is trying so hard..and I am seeing him suffer trying to balance (well not balance...cuz that will never happen). Trying to be more attentive.

BUT reality is I will never be first I knew this when I got in..and even though we are way through with the school and training...it never ends (like I have to tell you and MOM that).

WELL here is another reality...WHAT would a 29 y/o woman who was OH SO incredible special that it (I mean she) has you ready to CHUCK a life...and a career want with a 40 old married man of 3? seriously
Are you that cute?? Maybe (I know MOM thinks so)...But I would bet my first born she see's $$$...and for her to EVEN make a comment about HOW your marriage will be or anything about your W infurates me..as it should you...if anything MOM is the mother of your 3 sons...and guess what? she always will be.
She also was there for you and stood by you while you got to become who you are today.

And let me ask you another thing...HOW will a relationship with OW EVER work...EVER..
Next time she tells you that if you stay to make your marriage work it will only worse than before
tell her that if you left and had a relationship with her...your 3 sons will NEVER accept it.. NEVER because she was the reason their family broke up
BET that will shut her pie hole up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...and another thing
she is an LVN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> in a nursing home.
Now I am not bashing that...but her insecurities
will surface as you have interactions with nurses in the ER..better yet when you visit your W, I mean kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I dont even know why I am wasting energy even addressing the OW...she is not worth the energy
Except for the damage control you have to do now
especially since SOMEONE (I wonder who) has flapped her lips and circled the wagons at the nursing home. I wont go into it. I did that on Mom's thread.

You need to be strong..if not for your marriage then for all the years it took you to get were you are at. You need to either LEAVE that "gig" as you call it. OR you need to NOT engage OW in any more personal conversation period.
DAD you know medicine is a very "small" field
we love gossip and if there is anymore Upheaval
it will follow you...forever. This is now just a small fire, it can be put out...BUT YOU NEED TO DO IT..NOW..

Finally (hubby got home ...lucky you)..
I have heard how you feel like you marriage has been in a bad way for years...so let me ask you
what have YOU done to turn that around throughout these years?...are you not just as responsible for the neglect of your relationship?
I bet you are more than the reason..(Look at the above order of importance). I keep reading were MOM keeps taking responsiblity for this...and I think to myself YEA RIGHT...that is why I keep telling her to work on herself..it will make her stronger...again READ ABOVE..
Physician's wives are a very special breed..
WE KNOW when we send our H's off to work they will be flirted with. We know when they pull up to the store in that GROOVY sports car they will be hit on...WE KNOW were you actually come from
and dont you forget it..

Ok stressedout nice post, the reality of this mess is gaining momentum, I have put myself in jeopardy for some [censored]. Will adhere to NC and hope this blows over, got offer from other nursing home today, sister facility. Yes I am a physician first, that is who I am, yes my priorities are something like what you listed. I am egocentric, classic first born and need to redirect my narcissistic impulses back to hobbies or better yet replace those with my wife so I don't replace her with the hobbies. She has stuck by me and continues to my amazement. I will take it day by day.

Dad,
You are still being torn between your W and the bad relationship that led to your A and the OW who is willing to give you exciting sex. No wonder you are feeling so bad. In your eyes, the "right" decision to go back to your W is going to mean giving up a fulfilling sexual relationship. Nope, that is not really a very exciting option is it?

You said you feel like a zero at home. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Not a good feeling to be there is it?

You can make changes TODAY that will begin to turn this situation around. Your W is dealing with the discovery of your A, she is wondering how to keep your marriage together and keep Daddy at home for those 3 boys. Her energy is focused on you and she is suffering with no support at home. That is not fair...

If you want to feel important at home, sit down and tell her that you are going to focus your energy on rebuilding your marriage. You are not going to have great sex when you are still pining over the OW. It seems that you were not having that pre-A anyway so expecting fireworks in bed with your W now is unrealistic. It's going to take some time.

You MUST end all contact with the OW. We have heard all the excuses and game playing regarding the continued contact. I don't care whose fault it is, STOP it! The OW is baiting you into going back to a bad relationship so that you will turn around and come back to her. Until you commit to your W, the home time is not going to be any good and you will want to go right back to the OW, she KNOWS this. She is PLAYING you. DON'T fall for it.

You were offered a job at a sister nursing home, TAKE IT! Quit the current one and make arrangements for all of your current patients to be well cared for. Prioritize your family and you will not have to deal with the games, snickering etc. that the OW and her friends are playing. It IS unprofessional, but you knew that when you unzipped your pants and there is NO going back. You cannot be effective in the work environment with an ex-OW even if your marriage survives. Cut your losses and move on.

Your marriage with your W has the "chance" to recover and be better than it was before. You do not want to go back to the "old" marriage anyway, it was not filling either of your needs. PLEASE begin the counselling and work to restore it and you will be a big man in the eyes of your wife and sons. You are a strong man, you can make the right decisions now to restore your own dignity. Good luck.

"Yes I am a physician first, that is who I am, yes my priorities are something like what you listed. I am egocentric, classic first born and need to redirect my narcissistic impulses back to hobbies or better yet replace those with my wife so I don't replace her with the hobbies. She has stuck by me."

Dad...
I think I married you...My H could have wrote the same paragraph. Just an FYI...when my H did redirect his "home" energy He got to know an amazing child His son...It know brings tears to his eyes..

Somehow I think the reward of fixing this will all be so worth it..
I do appologize for being so tough on you...BUT I just buried an amazing friend this past weekend
He was Cheif of a Dept in a huge hospital..he was 52 he also had 4 kids..he didnt know the first 2 the last 2 (father of 4) he was close too
He was in perfect health ..worked out 2 hours daily longevity in his family (Mom 89, Dad90).
He just stroked out...stress I imagine..another colleague of my H's died last week (47) heart failure. You guys dont need anymore crap on your plates than you have...Just dont create it.
You have ADHD and so do your boys. My H and I probably do too or ADD...we are VERY high strung.

Dont over think the recovery (we high strung overacheivers tend to over think EVERYTHING).
Take care of business of saving your a$$ and your career. Then go home and get to know your bestfriend...your TRUE friend that one you have always depended on..I bet it all turns out BETTER than ever...

Thank you: yep you heard me...Thank you..You and mom's sitution has reminded me of so many great (yet hellish times in my life) But why our marriages are so incredibly special...different
unique... I was where you were at DAD..trying to rationalize why I deserve Better...
My H is gorgeous...not cute..FLAT OUT MOVIE STAR LOOKING gorgeous..people think he is lying when he tell them he is a Physician (too cute).RN's call my home for him and they "talk down" to me I usually floor them when they call for stupid s*** and I say have you tried so & so...Then Hubby tells them my educational background & training (I trained with the top docs in the country i our field)
so then they assume I am just a nerd hubby married in med school ... Nurse have told me how others nurses have tried to get H to cross the line. I love their faces when I come by the H (I sometimes consult on unit management and protocols) I guess I dont look the nerd part <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You really made me realize MY EN's and top on my list is an intelligent H (got it)..I have almost all of them except for a couple of the biggies
BUT I think it will be easier to work on those than it will be to start over..

So thanks for opening my eyes

Good- Luck I know it will be better for you than before. Just use 1/4 the effort you did to get were you are. And you will have the honor of knowing 3 incredible boys...and one incredible strong woman

[ April 06, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: StressedOutMom ]

Dad, I haven't posted to you yet. My H and you are in somewhat similar positions. At times he has felt judged and so I wanted to refrain from coming off as judgemental to you.

The whole withdrawal stage sucks, for both us BSs and you WSs. I'm sure if you're like my H you are feeling torn. If he stays with me and we don't recover, than he might lose OW forever. If he leaves me and goes with OW, will he be making the biggest mistake of his life giving up our M and family unit?

I don't know how involved you were with your oW, but my H allowed himself to experience stage one in-love again. That pisses me off more than anything because he ain't ever going to have that with me again. Those chemicals are flowing, the top ENs are being met so naturally, life is beautiful. I've pointed out the reality to him, and I'm sure you've heard it too, that the chemicals do stop flowing. Stage one ALWAYS comes to an end. So If you or my H leave the marriage for the excitement of the A, which existed in a little bubble world, what will it be like when you aren't in the bubble anymore? When you are going throught a divorce? When your relationship with your boys is altered forever, and so is their outlook on the world? I'm a therapist and see what this crap does to people and eventually they have to deal with how it effected their lives. How will the great sex with OW be when you look at her down the line and realize she never encouraged you to try and repair your marriage? She never gave a SH&& about your boys. I've told my H that if his and OW's love was encouraging each other to lie, cheat, betray, and hurt the people who you love and love you, then he can have that love. It doesn't sound remotely romantic or appealing to me.

Concerning sex! A song by this blues guitarist Johnny Lang comes to my mind, "You get what you give." You might not be capable of giving right now, but how about allowing your W to at least give to you. Maybe rub your head, your back. It doesn't have to be sexual. Who knows, maybe you will then want to give her pleasure. Try to open your heart a little to her. My H and I are enjoying sex, but I literally sobbed the 1st few times. And I'm not ready to "Do it" yet. It is very violating to know your S has been with someone else. Give yourself and your W a break. And for God's sakes, she's probably already feeling inadequate. Can you refrain from making her feel like SH&& over the crappy sex? I have a strong ego, like sex, and never felt inadequate. But knowing my H screwed someone else has left me feeling inadequate. You two will have to be gentle with one another. And mostly get the OW out of your head. It sounds like your W is looking pretty good. Why don't you imagine how you'd feel if she was making love to someone else?

OK, sorry if I LBed you. I hope you, my H, and any other WS on here gets their SH&& together. We all want unconditional love. Dad, your W is giving it to you big time. How often in your life do you think you'll have someone who will stick with you even after you've decimated their life? If you stick with her I guarantee when you two start having sex it will be deep and great!

OK, I'm shutting up! Hang tough Doc!!! CV

dang---2oak----i was gonna have "that chat " with dat---but it seems like stressed beat me to it!!!!

dad im the one, or one of the ones that beat the daylights out of 2 of a kind when he tried this way back when. im gonna give you a chance--its early yet for you. (and i think your inteligent enough to get it!)

good luck!!!

Hey there dad,

Some advice for you, and you've probably heard this before....Fake it till you Make it!!

You and mom are probably caught in a cycle, she is feeling unloved and thereby being unlovable, she is hard to get a hold of and therefore you are not able to get those feelings of love back...

Try it!!! Just go for it... It's as though you still have a link with OW until you finally become intimate with mom. (and the OW knows it, sees it in your eyes).

Good to know you have a plan to drop this nursing home. What did you think of the idea of taking on a contractor...a young doctor you could mentor and throw some work his/her way? You could still be the final say, and he/she can use you as a sounding board, but he/she can make the rounds and develop the relationships with the patients and staff...

bump

have been avoiding the board last few days, things are better with my BS. We are trying, it can be a minefield. OW is patient, she will bide her time and not give up, she is trying to get me jealous now. I still have the urge for a fix but at least I know now it is just that. OW is feeling betrayed and soon may come reprisals and or threats. NC is not possible. leaving the area is not an option, leaving the NH will cause me to leave another NH as well as they are under same umbrella. Not an option. I have lots of colleagues who have survived this and nothing happened to them career wise or legal wise. I hope I can say the same.

Dear D/M 2 - 3 boys,

Good to hear from both of you and glad to see the 'progress'. It is you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for the OW, well her true colors will come out and it won't be pretty. Time will tell so that you can see what the rest of us are already seeing.

The A is not a pretty sight yet in the fog, that is all some can see. If you can understand this D2-3boys, the fog is clearing and you are getting back your sense of reason.

Keep up the good work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> OW is patient, she will bide her time and not give up, she is trying to get me jealous now. I still have the urge for a fix but at least I know now it is just that. OW is feeling betrayed and soon may come reprisals and or threats <hr /></blockquote>Oh, that is true! Take it from me, my friend, that day is coming when you are going to see parts of her you never thought existed. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!" My OW told me every day how much she loved me, cared about me, couldn't imagine life without me, was proud of me, would never lie to me or hurt me. Then the day came when I realized our A had to end. She turned into a monster that still keeps me up all night. You are going to be amazed. You are going to be incredibly hurt. You are going to feel like the biggest fool in the world. You don't have to believe me now. Just wait.

But this will be a positive thing for you and your marriage. You will see her true colors and you will be glad you did not sink further into the sand with OW.

Just be prepared. Like me, you may even lose some of your faih in humanity. I mean, if love (or whatever it is) can turn into hate, and a great friendship can turn two people into enemies ... then is there nothing sacred anymore?

I am on anti-ds because I am so incredibly hurt still. I am p all night sometimes and can't think straight because I can't believe someone I cared about and trusted and believed and was friends with turned into such a monster. It has changed my life; however. Yes, I am less truesting of "strangers" now, but I am now involved with Amnesty International, some of my political views have changed, I am much more understanding and sympathetic to others, and I now try to do as many GOOD things as possible because I want to be the exact opposite of her.

Imagine if people tried to be as GOOD as they could be instead of being as BAD. What a great life and world we would all have, huh?

Good luck!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by whiteknight:
 [QUOTE] ....Oh, that is true! Take it from me, my friend, that day is coming when you are going to see parts of her you never thought existed. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!" My OW told me every day how much she loved me, cared about me, couldn't imagine life without me, was proud of me, would never lie to me or hurt me. Then the day came when I realized our A had to end. She turned into a monster that still keeps me up all night. You are going to be amazed. You are going to be incredibly hurt. You are going to feel like the biggest fool in the world. You don't have to believe me now. Just wait.<hr /></blockquote>Wow WK, your OW sounds a lot like PBR. You sure you weren't seeing her or her twin? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Whenever the OW (PBR) thought she was losing (I stepped out of that A game long before - the nutty OW was playing by herself), she would try to pick a fight with me by sending me e-mails or making hang up calls to my work, cell and home #s. Her last straw was sending me an e-mail while I was on vacation at my parent's telling me she was sorry to hear my mother was dying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I was furious. I called the WS and told him to keep his plane ticket and go live with the OW. A major boundary for me was to get her out of MY life. I wasn't the one having the A why did she need to contact me? Welp, because she was losing hold of the WS (he choose to come home) and she told him she was going to make my life miserable. Well she sure tried but I didn't give her that satisfaction. I later saw her in court when she tried to bring RO charges against the Xws. Xws asked me to go as a support for him and I did. OW tried to look like the victim. Instead she looked like a woman scorned and did a poor job of being a victim. The judge even told her that her story was poor at best. The RO was granted because he realized they both needed to stay away from each other.

Her true colors showed. She wanted to apologize to me (that is how she headed her e-mail) but within a few sentences I had to read words like (H loved her more but had to go back to his family, H wanted to put in her gate so he did and they said they would always love each other, etc.).... you see how Ows can be? Quite dangerous characters when they feel they have been betrayed. Doesn't matter that they are betrayers also. For some dumb reason they feel it is their right to ruin others lives and that the BS owes them an apology. Oh yea, I was told I had to apologize to her (via an e-mail to the then WS). I told him to tell her to take a hike, I did nothing to apologize for and would not apologize to the like of a 'creature like her'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

The point is watch for those OWs claws. The female gender of this population don't fight clean, they sometimes play quite dirty.

Protect yourselves.
L.
ps: Not all of the female persuasion are bad ya know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Originally posted by dadto3boys:
easier said than done

Most things that hold great value and worth are "easier said than done". Like college. Like Med school. Like parenting. Like keeping a family together.

I still feel zero at home except for the family as a whole, the romance has been absent for years though(way before the A started) What about that?

That is 50% your responsibility.

Romance involves effort.

After an affair, the romance is MORE your responsibility. Why?

because....

You've wounded your wife! Her womanhood is very tender. She's been rejected.

Be a man. Show her some empathy and some compassion.

Your selfish tryst robbed her of her sense of safety in her own bed ... and desecrated her sense of desirability.

The reasons you strayed are unimportant right now.

Selfish withdrawl will not heal your marriage and protect your family from divorce.

OW says go ahead, go back and "make the best of it" like I have been for years. It will be worse she says but that is YOUR choice.

Wow. Sounds like she's a real expert at long-term relationships! (sarcasm)

This comment by OW is telling. It says her views about marriage and family are:

Marriage vows are not sacred.

Hard times means reduce your efforts.

Families hold a lower priority to emotional feelings.

Selfishness before hard work.

I need time away from her for sure but she may be right too

She has an agenda.

Her remarks are not those of a woman with honor.

Her remarks may be those of someone with habitual conflict avoidance tendencies.

She's got an ax to grind.

Not words of compassion or wisdom to offer your suffering children.

Puke!

Pep
( an RNP with years of experience .... I teach residents!)

Originally posted by dadto3boys: "She said no one had ever made her feel the love she had for me "

Every single affair is just so special!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ALWAYS .... the love is "unique".

These are the lies affairees tell themselves to make infidelity "OK".

This is nearly universal.

"This would be wrong, except that our love makes sin so right."

~~~~~~~~~

And then you said:

" by getting to know her son I felt worse about missing my kids. "

You got to know her boy? You made her child a party to your adultery? Thus making adultery an acceptable choice to this child?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

This is harm intentionally inflicted upon another innocent child. ..... But OW was "OK" with this harm inflicted upon her boy .... because her feelings of being in love with a married man ... made her feel happy.

Her son's innocence sacrificed for her happiness.

What a woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Pep

Originally posted by dadto3boys:
I have a terrible streak in me that when I see myself as the bad guy I make things 10X worse on purpose to those I love to punish myself. I fear in a fight dowm the line this will happen, I forever have a criminal record in the court of matrimony, a convicted felon the moral highground is gone.

I LOVE this!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You have a flair for the drama.

and

You have the gift of introspection and self-insight!!!

Here's the great thing about this.

An opportunity to learn humility.

This is a very great gift, this opportunity.

Can you see this ---> that self punishment (ten fold worse ) is an act of arrogance <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Refusal to consider the possibility of forgiving yourself is also a hugely arrogant act! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Feeling that you require moral superority over your wife as a pre-requisite for marital bliss .... is supremely arrogant.

Contemplate true humility.

What does that mean .... humility...?

And how can humility guide you to forgiveness and redemption .... and therefore a renewal of self-respect and your position as head of the house....

hmmmmmm?

I think you and your wife are two really wonderful people.

She deserves the more humble soul that resides hiding behind all your drama. (although, I must confess .... the drama is amusing)

Your humility will open your soulful empathy. You will feel more alive than you ever thought possible! Your humility is a gate to a level of love for your wife you cannot imagine!

Here's a book I recommend to certain people .... and now you are among them:

"Passionate Marriage" .... by David Schnarch. It's a tough read. But one I believe will open your mind first, then your heart, letting free your humility and .... flood you with love for yourself and for your wife.

Pep

[ April 12, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

DT3B,
I have read your posts and the ones in reply to you. You have gotten excellent advice! Despite everyone's best efforts you chose to disregard this advice. I sincerely hope you are not as arrogant as you portray yourself!?

You have shown very poor judgement in regards to your professional relationships at the NH.

You turned to the OW instead of your W...again poor judgement.

You do not seem to understand the concept of "boundaries".

I doubt your ability to make sound decisions with the best interests of your W, kids and yourself in mind. You would be wise to set aside your arrogance and take the wonderful advice that has been given to you.

All M's go through bad times but, not all individuals engage in A's.

You made a commitment on your wedding day. You have a responsibility to your W and your kids. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and do whatever it takes to fix this M! You do not have the right to walk away until you have done everything you possibly can to make the M work. If you wake up one day, look at yourself in the mirror and can honestly say "I have done everything I possibly can and it's still not working." Then D is an option. A M should end because the two parties involved did everything they could to make it work and it just wouldn't. It shouldn't end because of a third person.

Awesome post mgm, Dad, are you reading?

At this point, your W is the only one fighting for your marriage. You are spending your free time on the computer and neglecting her and your 3 sons. I only hear your concern for the son of the OW, have you forgotton that you are the FATHER of 3 boys who need you? Your concern for the OW's feelings and those of her son are seriously misplaced.

Your continued defense of the working relationship with the OW is sickening. I understand that money is a very powerful motivator, how much of that will you lose when you are paying child support?

I know this is harsh, it is intended to be. Wake up and be a responsible husband and father and give at least as much energy to your family as you do to your work. In the end, if you marriage fails and you have tried, you can hold your head up. Right now, you should be ashamed at your blatent indifference to your family responsibilities. We are trying to help you here, please try to help yourself.

[ April 12, 2004, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]

Ok I admit to supreme arrogance, always been that way, a coping strategy, defense mechanism I guess. My problem here is committment, still on the fence, that is what it boils down to. The OW is not the answer I know that just an easy escape from the hard work as you put it. Give it my best shot that is it? OK fake it until we fall in love again? I know time is running out.

What kind of response is this??

Committment? Are you unsure or what? What is the alternative? Infinitely floating around at sea pondering yourself and the situation? Ugh.Take a stand dad.One way or another make some progress here.It is infuriating when I read posts from WS's who seem incapable of just making a darned decision.It's going to be hard which ever path you choose but if you don't put the EFFORT and TIME into one or the other they both sink.

And if mom is like me,she is tired of the wishy washy fence sitting approach you have taken.If you are in the marriage now then dag nabit get to work! This isn't going to magically resolve itself over time.It's action.He** yes give it your best shot.What about this is NOT CLEAR? Your response to this thread now is quick and full of doubt.If you can't even take the time to seriously review what we have been trying to help you with on this computer it must be worse at home.

You know,I would like to think that you will NOT be one of those WS's that decides,"Well,this is too much work and hey I can't really even get started so,I may as well just throw in the towel and cut my losses".Then,each post becomes smaller and less frequent and then POOF,he's gone for good.

Then what.The OW starts looking more attractive again as a choice(puke) and then what has happened? You have started all over AGAIN.You can't even stop the phone calls to/from OW now so you are still in this A.I told mom that a few days ago.She is convinced(100% as she says) that you are not in an A.I don't buy it.Not now.Prove me wrong??

O

D23B's, you're wife and I are in very similar positions. If she feels anything like I do, then you are right, time is running out. Every BS has their limit. I don't know what your W's limit is. I know I am trying hard to stick with my H during this hell of withdrawal. I also told him recently the love bank is beginning to run a bit dry from this end. I also realize that it isn't all about him choosing me, but about whether I want to choose him. Let me tell you Dad, at this point in time you WS's aren't exactly the biggest prize in town. Maybe to the lovely OW's, but please! I am sticking with my H for many reasons. It still shocks me that I didn't dump him. But it is an act of will. And I know, just like your W, that whatever happens I have incredible strength. I will be Ok, and I'll have my integrity. If H and I don't make it maybe one day I'll end up with someone else. I can tell you, it will never be a married man.

As far as the work goes. When a couple behaves in a loving way, and learns how to communicate and deal with conflict, the M really isn't that much work. My H and I had actually achieved that. Then we had a year from hell, and OW waiting in the wings.

I hope you are thinking hard what your life will be like if you split up your family, whether you end up with OW or not. Do you really think the issues with your W won't resurface with someone else? Why not get it right this time with your W?

The reality that I realized about my H, and it applies to you also, is us BS's can't make you choose the right path. You have to get it yourself. My H is in IC now, and knows he needs it. If he gets the help he needs he will be a much happier person. I hope you can find your way so you can stop using things like arrogance as a defense mechanism. I am rooting for you. At least you are posting and I think trying to make sense out of your confusion. CV

Sorry Dad, the above post was written by me, not on the edge. I keep forgetting he logs in here now too!

Dad,

You are still in your affair...if not physically you are emotionally.

Your W loves you. She has stood by you. She does not deserve this.

Yes some of your colleagues have survived this kinda of scandal before, some of ours have too.
But will your marriage? You need to LEAVE that RH...I would insist that my H do it..you just dont S*** where you eat. And if you do...then prepared for the consequences.

This CRAP with the LVN trying to make you jealous
WOW..GAG ME !!!!!!...your jealous ?? you have so lowered your standards....That home is into this because ..seriously what are the chances that a MD would leave his family for a step up from a nurses aide??? Best story I have to match that is that I know a Doc that left his W for an Xray tech (a 4 year degree)...
Funny thing..I saw him a few weeks ago..he looked like he had aids...he doesnt BUT he looked like S***...he realized he made a mistake BUT his W was not as generous to give him another chance...He asked ME to talk to his W. I asked him what it is I was suppose to say to his W ?...he was desparate....WHY the choice was TAKEN from him

Tough for you control freaks...isnt it ?

Dad I was the potentional WS...Not the BS..
I understand the ego thing (I lived and worked with it for 20 years)..
It's the lack of RESPECT..you have for your family that upsets me so much..

Everyday you go there...you are disrespectful to MOM and your Boys..

I hope your W gets strong...really strong..

I hope for your sake she does not make the decisions for you...sure would take the fun out of that sail of yours...
Maybe if you and that OW and the rest home cronnies could just graduate High school (refering to this ....making you jealous crap) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I hope those in your ER dont know...Cuz at least in MY ER (level 3 trauma) we would be laughing at you all not with you..

I know I need to stay away from your threads..
I just see you as pulling the wool over your family's eyes...If you were serious about saving your family...you would RESIGN...
AND YES YOU CAN...

I am sure it will be cheaper in the long run...

Disclaimer: I am new here..if Mods need to edit because I just am not buying into Dads excuses
then feel free...

Mom: I hope I dont hurt you...PLEASE KEEP WORKING ON YOU...for you..

D23B,
You and my H seem a lot alike. I don't know how M23B is coping. I just found out three weeks ago and am at the end of my rope. I gave my H and ultimatum this morning. Maybe I screwed up because I really love him, but I can't keep torchering myself. What is it that goes through a man's head. My H is very arrogant and will never admit he needs help, but right now, he is a mental case. He acts like he wants to be here one minute and the next he is on the phone with her. Is there anything I can do to make him want to stay?

Every time you skim over the replies you have gotten and ignore the innate message you insult every person who used their EQUALLY valuable time to reply to you!

No, grin and bear is not enough.
No, fake it 'till it works is not enough.

What is enough??

Enough, is doing everything you need to do to do your part to make the M work. It means being totally open and honest about everything. It means acknowledging what your A has done to the people who really know and love you. It means you get counselling with someone who can help you recognize why you did what you did and help you repair the part of your psyche that is in denial, defensive etc., etc.. It means you make the 100% effort to be present in your M and in your kid's lives. It means being responsible and accountable.

One thing that our MC told my FWH and myself during our MC was you'll never turn 90 wishing you'd made that extra million or that you'd worked 70 hours a week. You'll look back and wish you'd been there for the important family moments. Will the OW be there for you when you are 90?? Probably not. Do you want to have a great relationship with your kids when you are 90 and share great memories with them?? Probably you do. So, how does that happen? Hard work, my friend. Nothing is more important that your M and your kids, not the OW, not your job, nothing. Do you get it now??

One more thing.
I'm a nurse in a large hospital and I know what that environment can be like. I know you can always get a job somewhere else if it's important enough to you. Decide soon what your priorities are! As a nurse who is ultimately responsible for the good care patient's need I need to evaluate every physician's order I recieve. So, let me totally honest, you have lost alot of professional credibility and need to fix your M and then fix this. Don't kid yourself that your orders are being routinely carried out. As a nurse I can tell you that the nurses where you work are probably thinking you have shown very poor judgement and are scrutinizing every order you give.

Let the professional credibility go for now...your first priority is your M. I can tell you that resolving your marital woes would go a long way in proving to those you work that you can make sound professional judgements.

Originally posted by dadto3boys:
Ok I admit to supreme arrogance, always been that way, a coping strategy, defense mechanism I guess.

Or, a manipulation technique!

My problem here is committment,

What a huge crock! You already made a commitment. You vowed better or worse. You made 3 kids.

You problem is not commitment. Your problem is a selfiish character trait and lack of courage.

still on the fence, that is what it boils down to.

On the fence about what kind of man you'd like to be when you look in the mirror?

The OW is not the answer

Correct. Being a better you is the answer.

I know that just an easy escape from the hard work as you put it. Give it my best shot that is it? OK fake it until we fall in love again? I know time is running out.

It has been my experience that most affairs (of previously normally functioning adults) come as a result of a personal crisis ... an identity crisis.

So this "fence" you ride .... is one that will define who you are.

Your character.
Your courage.
Your morals.
Your reason for living.

Because what it all comes down to this this ...

What gives your life meaning?

Pep

Dad,
On the fence???What is that???
On the fence is when you are deciding if you want to pursue a new relationship or break it off with a girlfriend.

You are undecided about being a husband and father? That decision was made at the alter and in the delivery room, you can't go back even if you do not remain married to your W. You are a father, you are letting your own selfish desires decide the fate of 3 innocent children that you fathered.

I have read your posts and Mom's. You are not doing ANYTHING to make your marriage better but say that time is running out. Who's time? your children's? Are you just bored with the commitment thing and want something new and exciting? Look in the mirror and say that again and decide if you deserve the loving patient wife that you have. decide if you deserve to be the father of your children. You are acting like a spoiled brat.

Stop hiding behind your description of arrogance, it elevates you in your own eyes while diminishing you in your families eyes. You are selfish and weak. You did not get where you are as a doctor by being weak, it was all about you. You are a strong man who has tires of the responsibilities of life and want to cast 4 people aside in the wake.

Unless you decide to put your family before yourself, I hope that your W is ready to move on and build a life without you, she deserves better...

I have read a lot of responses of caring people who have taken the time here to try to help you and you have ignored every one of them. Your computer, race car and OW are not going to very valuable in the future, you are throwing away a precious family.

Ok, have you and mom filled out the EN questionnaires and LB questionnaires? If so, what have you found out is your biggest EN, and what is your biggest LB?

You want more excitement, and less stress? But wait a minute...these 2 things are complete opposites? You throw yourself into your work because it fulfills some strong needs. Could admiration be the big one? Mom is having a tough time admiring you because she is so full of resentment? time for you to have a talk with her about what your top 3 needs are and how she can fulfill them!!!

LB's, I'd be willing to bet your biggest one is independent behavior...same for my H too. Us womens need more of your time...not all of it...just more... You'd be amazed how 15 minutes out of an hour of undivided attention can make a difference. Or take one or two nights a week to completely devote to the family...or to mom! She doesn't need it all, but SH recommends 15 hours a week, and that's for a M not in trouble...

wow strong words, easy to type em. If all was well in the marriage I sure would not be here now would I? Ofcourse it is a crisis, the character issue? I have already crossed over that boundary when I knowingly and willingly had the A, I knew I was lowering myself then. Everyone wants me to do the right thing I KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT THING IS I AM NOT STUPID! The issue do I want to do it and for the right reason. I must WANT IT for it to work, yes my W wants it, yes she has done all she can do but if I do not learn to love her again it will not do anyone in the family any good period. I am trying and have made some progress with SH, I do see the flaw in the reasoning behind the A, I am distancing myself from it more and more. I do see the pain in my W eyes, the joy in my kids eyes, Tthis will just take time and alot of patience and changes on my part.

Dad I'm not here to beat you down or anything like that. I just had a thought because I was reading Mom's posts, I think that the thought of having someone else fill your shoes as a H and a father is what might have made you look into yourself to try and work on your M. If it was maybe you should think of that when the OW or the addiction gets to strong. I'm still glad your here and posting and trying. I could be way off base with this post and if I am I'm sorry, that's just my .02. I wish you luck dad hang in there I would like to see you and mom on the recovery board some day knowing that the sacrifices that both of you make to work on your M and all the hard work you guys will put in will pay off. Prayers to you dad.

D23B,
I've been following your story through your wife's posts from the beginning. I discovered my FWH A on the same week your wife found out, so I'm following this closely.

You and your W, hit what I thought was recovery before we did, and I read about your withdrawal, let me tell you, it scared the BEJESUS out of me. I was prepared... by reading your posts and your wife's posts, but it really scared me thinking...Holy Crap....I don't know if I can do what she is doing ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The more I read, the more frustrated I get with what you post.

I have posted to M23B previously, but am no longer of use to her, I can't believe she is still struggling so much with this. She's tried so hard to keep her family together, and I do nothing but admire her courage....it's a bottomless pit...she keeps going and going.

Fortunately we DID hit recovery, and fortunately there was NO withdrawal because the OW came after ME...and THAT was where my FWH saw the FOG lift completely.... she tried to hurt ME...and as a MAN, and my HUSBAND.... his instincts took immediate hold... he threatened HER should she ever try to do anything to ME again....point blank...whoever...her OR her friends....would have to get through HIM to get to me. The pain he endured that day was earth shattering. This proud man, on his knees, crying in shame over what he did to me, and what he let other people put me through when I did nothing to deserve it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I will NEVER hold this over his head. He made a horrible misjudgement, and there were many reasons...nothing condones an A, but if I was put in the same position I put HIM in...I'd have maybe done the same damn thing.

So reading what I posted above....I guess the question I have that sticks out most in my mind is being the Husband, the Father, the Protector of your family has seemed to be shoved someplace and is lost.

Where did it go ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Tthis will just take time and alot of patience and changes on my part <hr /></blockquote>This takes more than time and patience and changes at your personal whim. It takes alot of hard work, introspection, compromise and sacrifice (for you and your W)!! Work that should start now, if you're serious about being in the M, and not when you feel like you'll be ready. If you wait it may be too late. How long is your W supposed to wait?

No one said you were stupid. I, for one, said you've shown poor judgement. That's much different than stupidity, don't you think??!! I actually believe you are very bright but, are showing all the classic signs of someone in an A. Not even you are immune.

Again, the advice you have gotten has been excellent! Both BS and WS alike have replied to you. Instead of thinking that you are the exception...why not entertain that you are the rule and give those who've "been there and done that" the benefit of the doubt? Take advantage of their experiences. Ultimately, feedback is a gift you choose to use or not. Choose wisely. Trust that someone out here in "MB land" can support you and give you the clarity you are having trouble finding at this point in time.

Remember that love is a verb and not a noun. It's a choice, a decision. There are no guarentes (??sp), love, relationships and committment are a leap of faith. Quit looking for happiness outside yourself. Happiness is a state we create within ourselves to share with others; no one can give it to you...not your W, not the OW.

[ April 13, 2004, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dadto3boys:
 wow strong words, easy to type em. If all was well in the marriage I sure would not be here now would I? Ofcourse it is a crisis, the character issue? I have already crossed over that boundary when I knowingly and willingly had the A, I knew I was lowering myself then. Everyone wants me to do the right thing I KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT THING IS I AM NOT STUPID! The issue do I want to do it and for the right reason. I must WANT IT for it to work, yes my W wants it, yes she has done all she can do but if I do not learn to love her again it will not do anyone in the family any good period. I am trying and have made some progress with SH, I do see the flaw in the reasoning behind the A, I am distancing myself from it more and more. I do see the pain in my W eyes, the joy in my kids eyes, Tthis will just take time and alot of patience and changes on my part. <hr /></blockquote>The difference between knowledge and wisdom is that knowledge is the ability to 'know' how to use what is right and wisdom is the ability to do it.

You have the knowledge. You need to apply the wisdom. Take that step, you won't regret it.

My H was in the same boat. Maybe one day you and he should have a chat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

hi dad...I have followed mom's posts here but just realized that you are her H. I'm a little slow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Dad, you are still so deep in withdrawal from what I've read. I, too, am the FWS and know a little bit about that w/d and the symptoms. You have yet to realize what you have done! You are still very much in the "it's all about me" phase and to hell with everyone else who is suffering. That's a horrible to state to be in, I know!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

As the WS we are incredibly selfish and self-centered people. We are willing to lose it all for some person who happens to make US feel better about ourselves. Open your eyes Dad, you have been incredibly blessed. When we took our vows it was for better or worse, this is definetely the worse wouldn't you say. The fact that my H was even willing to try and rebuild our M was amazing to me and I have tried every since d-day to make it up to him. Yes, I struggle with feelings still at times and unfortunately I still work with the OM which sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> This is the point in your marriage when you have to put forth some effort and not give into your feelings. Your feelings cannot be trusted right now.
I will tell you this, my feelings were a fantasy. I am 10 months into recovery, and yes it is recovery, like any other addiction.

Pull yourself out of your own little world and look around you dad, there are people who need you and still want to be a part of your life. Sometimes you have to make the effort even when you don't "feel" like it. That's kind of like walking by faith, believing something even when you can't yet see it.

Good luck.

I have been reading both your post as well as your wife's, all I can say is I hope you don't wait to long like another W/S spouse did it took him 2 yrs to pull his a** out of his head while he was living with his gf 2000 miles away from his wife... by the time he came to his senses and moved back to town to try to win back his wife, she had, had enough of being and limbo and divorced him, if you read the hurt and pain in his post because of whay he did to his family you would think twice of what you are doing....

This woman that you had an affaire with has no respect for marriage and not even for your sons' welfare and for their future... but she sure cares for her own, since she is getting her cowoarkers to guilt you into the affaire again is that the kind of person you want in your life...
you keep harping on the state of your marriage you are just as guitly as your wife f you let other things get to the top of the list.... instead of your spouse.

You need to look at her (the O/W) really look at her,not what she makes you feel because that will blind you to the stituation....

strength and prayers to you dad, you are capable of more than you ever dreamed.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dadto3boys:
[qb] wow strong words, easy to type em. If all was well in the marriage I sure would not be here now would I? I KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT THING IS I AM NOT STUPID!

No, not easy to type strong words, it hurts to think of what your family is being put through.

All was NOT well in the marriage and so you looked elsewhere to have your needs met. Now that you say you know the RIGHT THING to do, what ARE you doing to makes things well in your marriage?

Are you willing to commit to giving 100% as a husband and a father while trying to repair the damage? You have not yet committed to your family and until you do, I don't see much hope of recovery.

[ April 15, 2004, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]

The comment about still being in the ME stage is accurate, I am normaly selfcentered already so this is the superbowl of sefishness I guess. Everything in my life is set up that way, I am a taker at home and a giver at work. Things revolve around me at work in every setting, I am used to that. I donot give of myself naturally as some can it takes an learned response on my part. I am trying and take it day by day.

You are right, this will take time and will take some new learning on your part. Just to let you know, change can be a little stressful and anxiety provoking. That's normal and it's ok...the unknown is always that way, right! (you have seen this numerous times with your patients)
Glad you've decided to keep coming back. Keep working at your M and keep the faith that things can work out.

Say 'hi' to your W from me and give her a hug from all of us!

dad...I think that just the admittance of being selfish is the beginning of healing. When you really get to the point when you realize what you have done to yourself and more importantly to mom, hold on. When the reality sets in this will be your turning point and the beginning of the end of the "ME" stage. Trust me, I've been there and it's more painful than you can know, but a very necessary step in healing yourself, your wife and your marriage.

Please don't think that my post was meant to criticize you because I've been where you are and I'm pulling for you!!