DT3,

Let the sun shine in here.
The OW's persistency should be an eye opener to you about her character. Although she may be a kind and decent person, she's jeopardizing your son's lives.

If you've told her, for WHATEVER reason, you want to try to save your marriage, if she TRULY cared about you, she'd back off.

Let's face it....this is what I told MY FWH....if you put ALL YOUR ENERGY INTO YOUR WIFE AND M RIGHT NOW.....and you give it the toughest fight in your life...AND for whatever reason it fails.... (AND IT CAN'T BE OW)....THAN and ONLY then will you pursue or accept OW advances. If it's truly meant to be....it would be there waiting...AFTER you tried...wouldn't it ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dadto3boys:
<strong> it totally sucks right now, feelings have not awakened for spouse especially in bed, OW knawing away anyway she can to get me back. Contact is still there through work, coworkers are enabling. Watching my kids helps, working on my cars. May need to find alternate income soon to replace an 6-7K/month gig. She aint gonna quit, it's going to extra innings. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Dr. Dad. There is a lot of bunk in this post. Mind if I take it point by point?

1. Your feelings for MT3B have not reawakened. Of course not! You are still in contact with OW. Don't expect anything to change if you aren't willing to keep to NC. It won't.

2. OW is gnawing away, any way she can? Let's say she is gnawing away any way you let her. You have contact. You give her a place, a stage. She's taken advantage of that and got her homies at the home to help her. Good grief. How much clearer can that be?

3. She ain't gonna quit? To quote your wife, "No Sh*t, Sherlock!" Did you really expect she might? You need to look for something else now. I mean yesterday kind of now.

4. It's going to extra innings? Only because you are allowing it to do so. You can end the blow-by-blow any time you want to. Just show her the door with a strongly worded NC letter, without any "I miss yous" and plenty of "I want my marriage to work" and then turn you back on her. And tell the homies to mind their own beeswax. Cold? So be it.

Dude, you have to grow a set of something or other.

~ Snow

DT3B. Here is a post on your W board ----

mt3b:

As you probably know, I was the WS. Someone put up a post recently that really hit me hard and made so much sense. It was something like, "Living with lies is exhausting." Sooner or later your H is going to be sick of it. It's a nightmare. I don't know how I did it for so long. I felt disgusting and filthy every time I lied to my W. I agree that your H needs to stop all contact. He needs to find another gig. He needs to do this to save his M, but also for his own self-respect. He is in a position of authority, and he is setting a terrible example. Yes, co-workers might somehow be "supportive" of this; but I can guarantee you that all respect for him is gone. There is nothing worse than losing respect. It's not something that can be bought back. No one can ask someone else to give it. It has to be earned.

I am sorry for all you are going through; but you will be all right. In the same way yu want your H to know that he will be all right once he lets OW go, you will be all right once we can get him out of his fog. It is tough for him. OW is "good" right now. There are no problems dealing with OW. It's all sex and fun and good times. But that's an immature way to go thorugh life and an unstable foundation for a future relationship.

NC is the answer. I know you already know that, but there is no way the M will recover until that begins.

[/QUOTE]

DT3B

I want you to know that your story is not original. There isn't anything OW is saying to you that I (and other WS) haen't heard. There isn't anything you are thinking that I (and other WS) haven't thought.

I was a WS for an entire year. My OW was beautiful and sex was great and we had great times all the time, and we made plans to spend the rest of our lives together, and daydreamed a lot. Every once and awhile I got a glimpse of reality, and I walked deeper and deeper into the fog. I wondered to myself how long I could get away with it.

Yes, I agree my situation is different because my OW was obviously emotionally and mentally unbalanced; but let's all be honest, shall we? How mentally stable is your OW? Of all the men in the world; she chooses a married man. How does OW feel about your situation? How does OW feel about what your W is going through?

You need another gig, my friend. Yes, we all want your M to work and that is the first step, but you also need to do this for YOU. I hooked up with my OW in a work environment and I lost the respect of all those aorund me. I could see it in their eyes.

We are all proud of you for being here. Now it is time for you to be proud of yourself. Tough decisions are made all the time in life. It's time for you to make a tough decision. Take the easy way out and run to the carnival OW provides, or do what you know is the right and fair thing for everyone. If you are honestly good than you have the potential to be truly great. What a great W you have. Don't walk away from a true gold mine like that for some glitter in the dark.

Dad,
I have read Moms threads about what is going on, are you there? Are you reading any of this?

I read from a few WS's who really do know what you are going through, they are the best ones to help you right now. Are you reading?

You have continued contact with the OW. Every time this happens, you are back to square one. You say that you cannot give up the income of the nursing home bacuase your family needs it...You are not thinking of your family now, or the money...the OW is the factor here and that is clear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Have you asked your wife and three young sons if they would rather have more money in the bank or a husband and father at home?

You had a bad experience with SF with your wife and that seems to have put you in a tailspin. Get over it! You cannot expect to enjoy sex with your wife when you are thinking of the OW and all of the baggage that goes with it. Relax, give it some time. You had sexual issues with your W before the a and they are certainly not going to go away overnight. You are not giving this a chance.

The staff at the nusing home is in alliance with the OW, they are her friends. You are walking into a trap every time you go there. They WANT to help tear apart your marriage and throw you into the OW's arms. YOU are the director, you made that very clear to us earlier. Are you going to allow yourself to be a pawn in their little game?

Many here have told you that you must get rid of this obligation. I realize that you are a doctor and have patients lives at stake. If you decide that you must stay there you are going to have to ACT like the director and have a staff meeting. YOU are going to have to let them know that professionalism is expected of each employee and that your personal life is not to be interfered with. If you can ease out of this job, get a replacement and run as fast as you can and don't look back. You KNEW that you crossed the professional line when you became involved with a nurse on staff, now you must pay the price and deal with the fallout.

I tried to be supportive when you first came here, but at this point it seems that you have your head so far in the sand that you need words of harsh reality! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I hope you are reading, I hope you are thinking 5-10 years in the future without your sons.

Dad,

Of course feelings aren't coming back for your wife.As has been said before they CANNOT while you are still in contact,any contact,and until you have gone through withdrawal.

You also should take into account that you are not the only one addicted here.The OW is and will be until SHE gets help too but you have the support here of MB what does the OW have? A bunch of cronies hoping to see you fail your wife,children,marriage and yourself.Talk about "evil".Would you really go BACK to this person now if you even had a chance???

FIGHT her off and fight for your family! What is the alternative but to have this monkey on your back for eternity whispering sweet nothings in your ear until she helps destroy the very thing that she is JEALOUS OF,your family!

She wants what it is that you have but not with HER.So she is willing to try and eliminate that and try to use you to her advantage to get what she wants.She is attempting to lead you down the primrose path.And we at MB are screaming at you on the sidelines to wake up.Do you really think that someone you have only been with for weeks or months has your best interests at heart more than your wife that has been with your for YEARS and that you had children with??


O

bumping this up in hopes Dad is reading

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

easier said than done, will avoid her and not let cronies corner me with her. I still feel zero at home except for the family as a whole, the romance has been absent for years though(way before the A started) What about that? OW says go ahead, go back and "make the best of it" like I have been for years. It will be worse she says but that is YOUR choice. I need time away from her for sure but she may be right too, she is not a reason to leave for I agree on that point.

Dad -

We humans are programmed to first be infatuated with another person. That is the tie that binds, until we marry and produce offspring. Later that dies down and we grow together, have intimacy, love, and companionship.

Sorry to tell you, that is the way it is. If you leave your wife to be with OW, the same thing will happen in that relationship. Then you will have to split up what assets you have left with OW, when she becomes the BS.

My WH was married twice before me. He left both wives for another woman. It never lasted. How stupid am I? Now he has an OW who tells him to "follow his heart".

What you are longing for is a fantasy that is not practical. Try to find some pleasure and joy in some other way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dadto3boys:
<strong> easier said than done, will avoid her and not let cronies corner me with her. I still feel zero at home except for the family as a whole, the romance has been absent for years though(way before the A started) What about that? OW says go ahead, go back and "make the best of it" like I have been for years. It will be worse she says but that is YOUR choice. I need time away from her for sure but she may be right too, she is not a reason to leave for I agree on that point. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, who do you think knows best? The OW, who has an agenda, whose aim is the failure of your marriage or Steve Harley? Steve Harley has successfully restored 100's of marriages, OW is actively trying to tear yours down so she can benefit. Since when is she an authority on marriages?

Believe me, Dad, everyone here knows what happens in a marriage when your needs go unmet for YEARS on end. We know that has happened to you. But we have also seen so many marriages recovered to the point of PASSIONATE LOVE when needs are met again.

Y'all are just a little rusty at this point, though, so you need to give it time. Please just give it time and hang in there. You can have a better marriage than you ever believed possible if you just stick with it. I promise!

You don't feel anything NOW because you are still emotionally invested in the OW. As you withdraw, and as she begins to meet your needs, you will become emotionally invested in your W. It won't happen overnight, but it also won't happen EVER if you continue contact with the OW and operate in an environment that ADVOCATES and ENCOURAGES infidelity. [that just amazes me! corporate America is SOO different!]

Are you going to tell all this to Steve Harley tomorrow?

Dad,
I have avoided coming back to your thread. I have been a little angry at the position you have placed your family in.
As you know Physicians in this country are in a very tough position these days. I dont have to tell you how the absence of tort and the other issues that face medicine and your profession. The decline in medical school apps and the projected crisis will be huge. That of course is another issue.

The issue here at hand is you feel like you and your W (of course long before the A) have lost the romance in your marriage. Well let me tell you after several years and 4 kids I feel that way too at times. Kids tend to have a way of becoming number one in a household (however not in a physicians home). They tend to have more needs that have to be met on a daily constant basis. They tend to EXHAUST you.

Right or wrong they do become the focus of life... Kinda like you (and my H) did while in Medical school...when you were awaiting your match. Having to drop everything and move cross country for a 4 resident program only to have to move in another direction for a fellowship.
The long lonely nights supporting a man who was frankly NEVER there...and main focus in his life was HIM. Being proud and happy to watch his accomplishments while trying to accomplish a little of your own...BUT opps we having a baby.
NOW we have another common goal (other than of course our H's goals). Dad..Dont think I am bitter or angry (well I did have a bad day). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I LOVE my H dearly. You will never find a woman (not even his mother) who is more proud of him.
I dont regret one day with him. And what is so funny is what you described your marriage to be (prior to the A) is my marriage now. AND its my H that is telling me everything I have just stated to you (about the time , kids, and busy life). Relationships go in ebbs and flows..ALL RELATIONSHIPS do...all of them. You have to look at the tasks at hand and decide which is a priority...BUT wait lets see..your a Physician
SO that means:
WORK / Patients come FIRST...yep they do I accept that...Mom23 accepts that and your 3 boys accept that.
SECOND: The business part of medicine.. well cant have one without the other...can you?? and who do you trust with that?? We have a bookeeper, Biller and a CPA and H still is in the middle.
BUT he did not work all those years to have someone steal from him..right?? we accept that.
Third/fourth
you/ maybe your Boys ?? you seem to have "hobbys" cars, driving etc.. My H also collects cars..but he just collects them Because he has decided to place our children 3rd.
and where do your boys fit??
Fifth: your marriage??
6th: your W
The marriage and the W are separate..especially in a Medical marriage.
Do you know years ago hospitals actually had support groups for Physicians wives?..some still do. There is a reason for it.

You know Dad...MOST women would NEVER tolerate having a job coming before family NEVER EVER
Physicians wives know...we just know. We accept, we support..Period. My phone has rang at least 6 times while typing this. Had to say sorry Dr.Stressed is in the OR @ University H you will have to page him. I feel like a broken record.

I started looking at MB because "I" started to think there has got to be something better.
I was actually looking as I said in an earlier post for support in Medical marriages. I feel neglected...My H LOVES me and he is trying so hard..and I am seeing him suffer trying to balance (well not balance...cuz that will never happen). Trying to be more attentive.

BUT reality is I will never be first I knew this when I got in..and even though we are way through with the school and training...it never ends (like I have to tell you and MOM that).

WELL here is another reality...WHAT would a 29 y/o woman who was OH SO incredible special that it (I mean she) has you ready to CHUCK a life...and a career want with a 40 old married man of 3? seriously
Are you that cute?? Maybe (I know MOM thinks so)...But I would bet my first born she see's $$$...and for her to EVEN make a comment about HOW your marriage will be or anything about your W infurates me..as it should you...if anything MOM is the mother of your 3 sons...and guess what? she always will be.
She also was there for you and stood by you while you got to become who you are today.

And let me ask you another thing...HOW will a relationship with OW EVER work...EVER..
Next time she tells you that if you stay to make your marriage work it will only worse than before
tell her that if you left and had a relationship with her...your 3 sons will NEVER accept it.. NEVER because she was the reason their family broke up
BET that will shut her pie hole up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...and another thing
she is an LVN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> in a nursing home.
Now I am not bashing that...but her insecurities
will surface as you have interactions with nurses in the ER..better yet when you visit your W, I mean kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I dont even know why I am wasting energy even addressing the OW...she is not worth the energy
Except for the damage control you have to do now
especially since SOMEONE (I wonder who) has flapped her lips and circled the wagons at the nursing home. I wont go into it. I did that on Mom's thread.

You need to be strong..if not for your marriage then for all the years it took you to get were you are at. You need to either LEAVE that "gig" as you call it. OR you need to NOT engage OW in any more personal conversation period.
DAD you know medicine is a very "small" field
we love gossip and if there is anymore Upheaval
it will follow you...forever. This is now just a small fire, it can be put out...BUT YOU NEED TO DO IT..NOW..

Finally (hubby got home ...lucky you)..
I have heard how you feel like you marriage has been in a bad way for years...so let me ask you
what have YOU done to turn that around throughout these years?...are you not just as responsible for the neglect of your relationship?
I bet you are more than the reason..(Look at the above order of importance). I keep reading were MOM keeps taking responsiblity for this...and I think to myself YEA RIGHT...that is why I keep telling her to work on herself..it will make her stronger...again READ ABOVE..
Physician's wives are a very special breed..
WE KNOW when we send our H's off to work they will be flirted with. We know when they pull up to the store in that GROOVY sports car they will be hit on...WE KNOW were you actually come from
and dont you forget it..

Ok stressedout nice post, the reality of this mess is gaining momentum, I have put myself in jeopardy for some [censored]. Will adhere to NC and hope this blows over, got offer from other nursing home today, sister facility. Yes I am a physician first, that is who I am, yes my priorities are something like what you listed. I am egocentric, classic first born and need to redirect my narcissistic impulses back to hobbies or better yet replace those with my wife so I don't replace her with the hobbies. She has stuck by me and continues to my amazement. I will take it day by day.

Dad,
You are still being torn between your W and the bad relationship that led to your A and the OW who is willing to give you exciting sex. No wonder you are feeling so bad. In your eyes, the "right" decision to go back to your W is going to mean giving up a fulfilling sexual relationship. Nope, that is not really a very exciting option is it?

You said you feel like a zero at home. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Not a good feeling to be there is it?

You can make changes TODAY that will begin to turn this situation around. Your W is dealing with the discovery of your A, she is wondering how to keep your marriage together and keep Daddy at home for those 3 boys. Her energy is focused on you and she is suffering with no support at home. That is not fair...

If you want to feel important at home, sit down and tell her that you are going to focus your energy on rebuilding your marriage. You are not going to have great sex when you are still pining over the OW. It seems that you were not having that pre-A anyway so expecting fireworks in bed with your W now is unrealistic. It's going to take some time.

You MUST end all contact with the OW. We have heard all the excuses and game playing regarding the continued contact. I don't care whose fault it is, STOP it! The OW is baiting you into going back to a bad relationship so that you will turn around and come back to her. Until you commit to your W, the home time is not going to be any good and you will want to go right back to the OW, she KNOWS this. She is PLAYING you. DON'T fall for it.

You were offered a job at a sister nursing home, TAKE IT! Quit the current one and make arrangements for all of your current patients to be well cared for. Prioritize your family and you will not have to deal with the games, snickering etc. that the OW and her friends are playing. It IS unprofessional, but you knew that when you unzipped your pants and there is NO going back. You cannot be effective in the work environment with an ex-OW even if your marriage survives. Cut your losses and move on.

Your marriage with your W has the "chance" to recover and be better than it was before. You do not want to go back to the "old" marriage anyway, it was not filling either of your needs. PLEASE begin the counselling and work to restore it and you will be a big man in the eyes of your wife and sons. You are a strong man, you can make the right decisions now to restore your own dignity. Good luck.

"Yes I am a physician first, that is who I am, yes my priorities are something like what you listed. I am egocentric, classic first born and need to redirect my narcissistic impulses back to hobbies or better yet replace those with my wife so I don't replace her with the hobbies. She has stuck by me."

Dad...
I think I married you...My H could have wrote the same paragraph. Just an FYI...when my H did redirect his "home" energy He got to know an amazing child His son...It know brings tears to his eyes..

Somehow I think the reward of fixing this will all be so worth it..
I do appologize for being so tough on you...BUT I just buried an amazing friend this past weekend
He was Cheif of a Dept in a huge hospital..he was 52 he also had 4 kids..he didnt know the first 2 the last 2 (father of 4) he was close too
He was in perfect health ..worked out 2 hours daily longevity in his family (Mom 89, Dad90).
He just stroked out...stress I imagine..another colleague of my H's died last week (47) heart failure. You guys dont need anymore crap on your plates than you have...Just dont create it.
You have ADHD and so do your boys. My H and I probably do too or ADD...we are VERY high strung.

Dont over think the recovery (we high strung overacheivers tend to over think EVERYTHING).
Take care of business of saving your a$$ and your career. Then go home and get to know your bestfriend...your TRUE friend that one you have always depended on..I bet it all turns out BETTER than ever...

Thank you: yep you heard me...Thank you..You and mom's sitution has reminded me of so many great (yet hellish times in my life) But why our marriages are so incredibly special...different
unique... I was where you were at DAD..trying to rationalize why I deserve Better...
My H is gorgeous...not cute..FLAT OUT MOVIE STAR LOOKING gorgeous..people think he is lying when he tell them he is a Physician (too cute).RN's call my home for him and they "talk down" to me I usually floor them when they call for stupid s*** and I say have you tried so & so...Then Hubby tells them my educational background & training (I trained with the top docs in the country i our field)
so then they assume I am just a nerd hubby married in med school ... Nurse have told me how others nurses have tried to get H to cross the line. I love their faces when I come by the H (I sometimes consult on unit management and protocols) I guess I dont look the nerd part <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You really made me realize MY EN's and top on my list is an intelligent H (got it)..I have almost all of them except for a couple of the biggies
BUT I think it will be easier to work on those than it will be to start over..

So thanks for opening my eyes

Good- Luck I know it will be better for you than before. Just use 1/4 the effort you did to get were you are. And you will have the honor of knowing 3 incredible boys...and one incredible strong woman

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: StressedOutMom ]</small>

Dad, I haven't posted to you yet. My H and you are in somewhat similar positions. At times he has felt judged and so I wanted to refrain from coming off as judgemental to you.

The whole withdrawal stage sucks, for both us BSs and you WSs. I'm sure if you're like my H you are feeling torn. If he stays with me and we don't recover, than he might lose OW forever. If he leaves me and goes with OW, will he be making the biggest mistake of his life giving up our M and family unit?

I don't know how involved you were with your oW, but my H allowed himself to experience stage one in-love again. That pisses me off more than anything because he ain't ever going to have that with me again. Those chemicals are flowing, the top ENs are being met so naturally, life is beautiful. I've pointed out the reality to him, and I'm sure you've heard it too, that the chemicals do stop flowing. Stage one ALWAYS comes to an end. So If you or my H leave the marriage for the excitement of the A, which existed in a little bubble world, what will it be like when you aren't in the bubble anymore? When you are going throught a divorce? When your relationship with your boys is altered forever, and so is their outlook on the world? I'm a therapist and see what this crap does to people and eventually they have to deal with how it effected their lives. How will the great sex with OW be when you look at her down the line and realize she never encouraged you to try and repair your marriage? She never gave a SH&& about your boys. I've told my H that if his and OW's love was encouraging each other to lie, cheat, betray, and hurt the people who you love and love you, then he can have that love. It doesn't sound remotely romantic or appealing to me.

Concerning sex! A song by this blues guitarist Johnny Lang comes to my mind, "You get what you give." You might not be capable of giving right now, but how about allowing your W to at least give to you. Maybe rub your head, your back. It doesn't have to be sexual. Who knows, maybe you will then want to give her pleasure. Try to open your heart a little to her. My H and I are enjoying sex, but I literally sobbed the 1st few times. And I'm not ready to "Do it" yet. It is very violating to know your S has been with someone else. Give yourself and your W a break. And for God's sakes, she's probably already feeling inadequate. Can you refrain from making her feel like SH&& over the crappy sex? I have a strong ego, like sex, and never felt inadequate. But knowing my H screwed someone else has left me feeling inadequate. You two will have to be gentle with one another. And mostly get the OW out of your head. It sounds like your W is looking pretty good. Why don't you imagine how you'd feel if she was making love to someone else?

OK, sorry if I LBed you. I hope you, my H, and any other WS on here gets their SH&& together. We all want unconditional love. Dad, your W is giving it to you big time. How often in your life do you think you'll have someone who will stick with you even after you've decimated their life? If you stick with her I guarantee when you two start having sex it will be deep and great!

OK, I'm shutting up! Hang tough Doc!!! CV

dang---2oak----i was gonna have "that chat " with dat---but it seems like stressed beat me to it!!!!

dad im the one, or one of the ones that beat the daylights out of 2 of a kind when he tried this way back when. im gonna give you a chance--its early yet for you. (and i think your inteligent enough to get it!)

good luck!!!

Hey there dad,

Some advice for you, and you've probably heard this before....Fake it till you Make it!!

You and mom are probably caught in a cycle, she is feeling unloved and thereby being unlovable, she is hard to get a hold of and therefore you are not able to get those feelings of love back...

Try it!!! Just go for it... It's as though you still have a link with OW until you finally become intimate with mom. (and the OW knows it, sees it in your eyes).

Good to know you have a plan to drop this nursing home. What did you think of the idea of taking on a contractor...a young doctor you could mentor and throw some work his/her way? You could still be the final say, and he/she can use you as a sounding board, but he/she can make the rounds and develop the relationships with the patients and staff...

bump

have been avoiding the board last few days, things are better with my BS. We are trying, it can be a minefield. OW is patient, she will bide her time and not give up, she is trying to get me jealous now. I still have the urge for a fix but at least I know now it is just that. OW is feeling betrayed and soon may come reprisals and or threats. NC is not possible. leaving the area is not an option, leaving the NH will cause me to leave another NH as well as they are under same umbrella. Not an option. I have lots of colleagues who have survived this and nothing happened to them career wise or legal wise. I hope I can say the same.