At Peace,

Thanks so much for your input. A couple of follow-up questions, if you don't mind.

What exactly did your H tell your parents? How did they react? How do you think things would have been different if they knew the whole truth? Was this before or after his affair? Did you initially resent him for exposing? If so, for how long? What has happened in your relationship with your parents, post-exposure?

Thanks,
--SC

Well no. What causes long term problems is the AFFAIR. And that runs the risk of not only ruining the marriage, but of fostering very appropriate resentment from the BS. The BS should do whatever it takes to bust up the affair, and that very often involves exposure to family members, children, employers, pastors, friends.

It takes what it takes and potential "resentment" about being exposed should never be a factor. The deciding factor should always be what will bust up the affair. A WS who is "resentful" about being busted isn't in recovery anyway.

Just remember, many marriages don't make it at all because the BS decides to move on. Their resentment is so great that they choose to cut their losses. The resentment of an affair is a very legitimate risk to a marriage, whereas resentment over exposure is just a job hazard, a job hazard that the WS CHOSE.

I am a FWS who wasn't exposed...Mr. W had yet to find MB...

I have said here MANY times that if my h would have exposed...in my case, to the OM's parents alone, the A would have ended IMMEDIATELY...

Do I wish that my h would have exposed had he have known to...YES, YES, YES!!!

I was a very twisted and sick individual who continued to inflict pain on my family and myself after Dday...I needed saving from myself...

I would have gotten over it because I am recovered and see VERY CLEARLY the merit of exposure...

I would have understood and been grateful...just like I have about the digital recorder that my H used...the keylogger...the meeting with a divorce attorney...the gathering of evidence for issues of custody...

I forced Mr. W to do those things...MY A...MY choices...forced his choices...

A FWS that cannot see this is NOT fully recovered and IS still in the FOG!!!

Mrs. Wondering

Here is my point...

If BS's are to believe that the potential long term gain (a recovered marriage) is worth the short term pain of exposure... and that the WS will eventually get over it... let's hear it from a few of the horses mouths.

Why smartcookie? How many will it take for you to get it? At Peace told you...though I was not exposed, I told you that I should have been and would definitely have gotten over it-I'm not lying...I would have and I am sure...100%

Give us the number of exposed FWS that it will take to convince you...we'll go searching and find them for you...be honest with yourself though...are you really gonna believe them???

Mrs. Wondering

But the BS's don't suffer any short term pain from exposure. They DO suffer LONG TERM pain from the affair. Further, most of the ones who were exposed do not post here, only their BS.'

And yes, BS' are to believe that exposure is very effective because we have seen it happen time and time again on this forum. Regardless of potential "resentment" exposure is simply the most effective weapon in the BS' arsenal. "Resentment" does not change that factoid.

Frankly, I am not too damn concerned about the WS' potential "resentment." What is more important is the resentment of their victims, the BS, the children, the family and other effected people. The people that DID NOT volunteer for an affair but had to suffer the consequences. The WS chose the affair and with that choice, has to suffer the consequences.

If the WS is resentful about exposure, then they shouldn't have been doing those things they don't want exposed in the first place. Exposure is a consequence of having an affair, and if folks don't like that, they shouldn't have affairs. DUH.

A WS who is truly remorseful and in recovery won't be resentful anyway. Only a foghorn would be resentful about having to face the consequences of their own actions.

Any WS who truly wants to save his marriage, will get over it. If they don't then that is their choice.

What exactly did your H tell your parents? How did they react? [color:"green"]I'm not sure what he told them, exactly. I know that he told them I'd been seeing another man and that I'd been lying about it. Their reaction, to ME, was calm, but very disappointed. They let me know that they knew I was involved in "something" and that we all knew it was wrong. They asked what they could do to help restore my marriage. (Yeah, I have good parents!) [/color]

How do you think things would have been different if they knew the whole truth? [color:"green"]Well, an affair is an affair, regardless of which body parts touched which body parts. Lying is lying. However, I do think they would've been much more specific and aggressive in their disapproval if they'd known it was a PA. Which is why I didn't tell them at the time. I tried to downplay it as an "overly involved friendship." Geez, this is embarassing to admit.[/color]

Was this before or after his affair? [color:"green"] This was several years after his affair. [/color]

Did you initially resent him for exposing? [color:"green"] Heck, yeah. I was pissed. [/color] If so, for how long? [color:"green"] I was mad and embarassed at first, but I'm no fool -- I realized pretty quick (like on the way home) that I wasn't really angry at my H. He was only doing what he thought he had to do to. I knew he was desperate. I was just ticked that I was busted to my parents. Ours is a very religious family.[/color]

What has happened in your relationship with your parents, post-exposure? [color:"green"]They never spoke of it to me again, specifically. They'd made it perfectly clear that they love me but would never condone an affair. Period. I do think they kept tabs thru my H, tho, and had several "support" sessions. In our convo they had encouraged me to work it out with my H -- with counseling, if need be. They never mentioned another option. We still have a very close and healthy relationship.[/color]

[color:"green"]Hope this helped!

Lori [/color]

Let me make one thing perfectly clear -- this is not about me (Mrs W). Exposure did not enter into my situation since my affair ended about a month before I told my H about it.

As I have watched several posters struggle with backlash from the WS after exposure, it has raised questions in my mind about exposure and how it should be handled in order to increase the odds of a recovered marriage. Not just bring the so-called natural consequences of an affair raining down on the head of the WS. But to break up the affair in such a way that it increases the chances of reconciliation.

I have expressed those questions/doubts on other theads. WAT -- the creator of this thread -- recently put out an invitaiton for more input on this thread. He wrote, in part:


So here I am. Not to argue. But to question.

And that is what we are all trying to tell you. Exposure does not DECREASE the odds of marital recovery, only INCREASES them. Often, there would be no marriage to recover at all if it weren't for exposure. The initial anger of exposure is not a problem, but an expectation. It is not a big deal as it always blows over. Their anger is not a problem, nor is it an impediment to recovery.

A WS who is truly sincere about recovery will not allow some - very inappropriate - resentment to stand in his way. Nor will a BS, the one who really has something to be resentful about, allow his resentment to interfere in recovery if he is committed to rebuilding the wreckage. It often takes a BS months or years to get over the resentment of an affair. And he didn't sign up for it, a WS DID.

Let me explain it another way. The WS is like a crack addict when in the throes of his affair. He might get FURIOUS when the crack pipe is taken away from him, but that temporary anger does not impede recovery, nor does it render confiscation of the crack pipe to be a BAD THING. The crack head's anger does not change the positive effects of confiscation.

How do you decide if you need to expose? In my case, the OM is married and I know his wife. On the other hand, I do believe my W's EA with him is over. I think it's been over for a month. I am not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure. I may never be 100% sure.

I don't think I should tell OM's wife because first, I do think it is over, and second, I am worried it could backfire. If he's single, I think he'd be more of a threat.

I also worry it could push my W over the edge since she has claimed to have not been happy with me for a long time. Maybe she's bluffing, but maybe not.

Of course, it does seem to me that if I find out she is still talking to the OM, that the first thing I should do is tell his W. Before I even tell my W.

Any advice?

1. He's more likely to end up single in the long run if you don't tell.

2. OM's wife will keep tabs on him and help you keep them apart

3. As long as that BIG secret is out their your wife and him remain connected within the "secret".

4. You, as the husband and leader of YOUR family AND because your wife is supposed to be in No Contact, have the moral obligation to let this woman know a secret you know about her life. Wouldn't you want and feel you deserve the same from her??????

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Disclosed affairs rarely result in divorce...marriages survive and rebuild, often better than before.

Whereas, a marriage with a secret has a constant and enduring impedement to intimacy and often results in the eventual demise of the marriage.

Help this woman save her marriage. It's the right thing to do.

Mr. W

I think my question has more to do with the manner of exposure than exposure itself (although I reserve the right to question exposure flat-out in future posts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />).

In order for recovery to happen, both the BS and the WS must want it. I can understand how exposure that leads to a lovingly supportive reaction -- one that supports the WS without condoning the affair (as At Peace's parents reacted)-- would eventually help the WS to look inward and recommit to the marriage.

However, might it not also be true that said WS -- exposed in a way that brings about a harsh, shameful, judgemental reaction -- may not ever get to the point of WANTING to recover?

Whether or not the WS's resentment is inapropriate, I think, is also debatable. Behold the exposure equation:

A+E=R.

That is -- Affair+Exposure=Reaction.

While it is true that without the affair, there is no reaction. It is also true that without exposure, there is no reaction. Both parts of the equation involve choice. The choice of the WS to have the affair. And the choice of the BS to expose. Actually -- not only the choice to expose... the but choice HOW to expose.

Your chances of restoring your marriage are MUCH GREATER if you do expose. If you expose, then there will be two people watching instead of one. It will greatly discourage either of them from pursuing the other if they know their spouse knows.

The OM's W also MUST BE TOLD. She has to be told so she can protect herself and her children from your W and her H. She does not have a chance to save her marriage if no one will tell her the truth. Not telling her is cruel.

In your case, I suspect your W is still in touch with the OM. Telling his W would probably kill this affair very quickly before it goes any further.

smartcookie...

It is not my intention to argue either...it is my intention to fully support the principles of Marriage Builders...It is my opinion that casting doubt regarding the single most powerful tool used to bust up affairs is dangerous ground to tread on here...For the "newbies" that come here completely distraught...unsure...questioning...needing clear direction...I simply feel that it is irresponsible for anyone to lead them away from the path that the Harleys have very clearly defined...a very narrow path...

The posters aren't struggling with the backlash of exposure...it is the backlash of the A that they struggle with...

Mrs. Wondering

This is not true at all. A WS in the throes of an affair will never want to be exposed. That is an expectation. This is why it always done without telling them in advance.

The purpose of exposure is to bust up the affair, and the WS rarely wants that. If they did want that, then there really is no purpose to exposure at all, because that would mean the affair was already over.




It is more likely true that the WS will not get to the point of recovery if the affair is not exposed. As I said before, a WS who is truly remorseful will not be resentful and will not let anything stand in his way. A truly remorseful WS should feel shame, that is the natural consequence of bad behavior. Nothing stops a truly sincere WS who wants recovery.

Huh?

Not certain if you are refering to the Ws's reaction to being exposed.... or if you were refering to the reaction of family who were made aware of the infidelity ...

Exposure works to end the affair. Without an ending of the affair, there is no possible recovery.

Exposure is an event intended to be an intervention consistant with consequences of choices motivating someone to stop bad behavior.

If a WS never gets to the point of "wanting to recover" ... why did they not just divorce their BS to start with?

This makes no sense what you are saying ... so I must not understand your point ... could you explain it better perhaps?

Pep

I would add that MOST reactions will be judgemental,[most sane people CAN judge that affairs are immoral] some harsh, and some indifferent. It would be unrealistic to expect sympathy for abhorrent behavior.

The BS has no control over reactions, nor is it relevent to recovery. The WS will have to suffer some backlash from her affair. That is a natural consequence of behaving badly. Ya ain't gonna get an award!

In my case, my mother and sister were quite OUTRAGED about my H's affair and wanted nothing to do with him. But, if he wanted to get me back, I made it very clear that he would have to make amends to them too.

He went to both of them and apologized, which impressed them very much. Had he sat around and sulked or been resentful, I would not have been impressed at such remorseless, juvenile behavior. And I had no intention of cutting off contact with my mother and sister.

So, instead of feeling resentful at the natural consequences of one's bad behavior, we should encourage folks to act with a little honor and character and face the music. No one should encourage cowardly, petty, childish behavior by accomodating stupid resentments produced by their own behavior

ML - What have I said that leads you to believe my W is still in touch with the OM? I have no evidence of that, and I am looking as hard as I can.

Here's a brief summary: W was friends with OM for 2 years. Saw him approx. every 2 weeks at a meeting. At a church retreat about 8 weeks ago he told her he loved her and they discussed how they liked each other. They held hands. That was it for physical contact. She got back and I was suspicious so I checked her cell phone and discovered they were talking a ton - after the retreat - not before. Confronted her, she denied said they were friends. Then she used the home phone and I heard their talk - confronted her again, she admitted it and said she wouldn't talk to him anymore. 3 weeks later he called her on her cell, and she immeidately hung up and called him on the home phone. Big mistake since my recorded was still on. Confronted her, she broke down and told me she had also called him 3 or 4 other times in that 3 week period from public phones. That was about 5 weeks ago and she has told me repeatedly that she has not called him. She did see him one time in carpool line (and talked to him for a minute - kids were in the car). And she saw him at church - I was with her and their was no conversation.

Duirng that time we have been to a lot of MC - including a 3 day weekend of MC. I have been working hard to meet her ENs and do Plan A. She says she's notices. We have regular SF. In other words, I think we are doing OK.

I did hear one call between W and friend last week where W said "you didn't help me out ..." Friend said: "I am not going to tell you what you want to hear, I am devil's advocate..." W said: "I've been good... but I did see him at church on Sunday" - that call bothers me and I am being especially vigilant.

So what would lead you to think she is still in contact?

One reason I don't want to expose is that if she is not still in contact, it will be very bad for me I think. One of our problems is how I have treated her over the past 15 years (no A, but I have been very withdrawn and not met her needs, acted disappointed in her etc.). II have worked very hard on this for the past 8 weeks and I think we are actually doing better right now than before the EA, so I hate to upset the whole thing with exposure.

I sort of feel guilty now too, for the OM's W.

19, it will be very bad for you if you DON'T EXPOSE. As long as the OMW doesn't know, there is a strong chance she can/is resuming the affair. As you say yourself, your W just saw him at church and from the sounds of her converstation is hoping to see him again.

As long as she continues to see him, she cannot withdraw and recovery is IMPOSSIBLE.

In order for her to withdraw from the OM, contact needs to end completely. That means she NEVER EVER sees him again. Not even at church.

This is another reason why the OMW must know. One of you will have to find another church unless you want to be dealing with an on-again, off-again affair for years. And we have many such examples here if you don't believe me.

This is why Dr. Harley says that the affairee's spouses should ALWAYS be notified and why he is ADAMANT that contact never take place again. The chances of no contact are much greater if both spouses know.

And just how will his wife know if you don't tell her? She has a right to this information and it is likely being withheld from her. How can she protect herself and her children from your W and her H if no one has the decency to tell her?